Jim Hargrove

A new article by John Armstrong shows how the FBI altered DPD dispatch records to change the time of the shooting of J.D. Tippit from 1:10 PM to 1:16 PM, giving Oswald just enough time to walk nearly a mile from his rooming house to 10th & Patton. https://harveyandlee.net/DPD/Transcripts.html

Would anyone like to review the actual evidence? Here is the unchashed, unendorsed US Postal Money Order the Warren Commission wanted us to believe was used by "Lee Harvey Oswald" to purchase the rifle that allegedly killed JFK. Note that all the initials in the area reserved for bank endorsements were made by FBI agents. This was intended to confuse us, but did it?

I've taken down the temporary test page linked above. The fully updated Marine Corps page can now be seen here: harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html This is a lengthy page, but Marine Corps records make the existence of two LHOs very clear. For example.... The Warren Report, and a number of supporting documents, indicated that Oswald was discharged from the USMC on Sept. 11, 1959. But according to the records of Assistant Provost Marshall William Gorsky, LHO was discharged from the marines half a year earlier, in March, 1959. Described another way, while one LHO worked in the radar bubble in Santa Ana from October 1958 to August 1959, the other LHO was discharged at El Toro in March 1959. Earlier, while one LHO was being treated for VD at the Naval Hospital in Atsugi, Japan, the other LHO was on the high seas aboard the USS Skagit and stationed on the island of Taiwan, some thirteen hundred miles from Atsugi.

No squad car blocking the driveway??? Really???

Possibly, though I think "transferred" would be the term more likely used in that situation. Anyway, at that very same time, LHO infamously worked in a radar bubble at MACS 9 at Santa Ana, CA. (from October, 1958 through August, 1959).

Oswald pictures often lead to disagreements. More interesting, to me, is documentary evidence. For example, few people realize that there is an indication that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was retired from the Marines Corps on two separate occasions. The Warren Report, and a number of supporting documents, indicated that Oswald was discharged from the USMC on Sept. 11, 1959. But according to the records of Assistant Provost Marshall William Gorsky, LHO was discharged from the marines half a year earlier, in March, 1959. There are many other records suggesting there were two different Lee Harvey Oswalds in the Marine Corps. John Armstrong’s updated write-up on this, not yet public, can be read on our website here: https://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines_TEST.html Plenty of professional medical records also indicate that one LHO was 5’9” tall as an adult, while the other was 5’11” and considerably heavier. I think it is unwise to trust, or try to interpret, the facial photographic evidence in this case, at least if it isn’t supported by other kinds of evidence. The definitive collection of Oswald mugshots was prepared decades ago by Jack White and John Armstrong:

20 Facts Indicating the Oswald Project Was Run by the CIA 1. CIA accountant James Wilcott testified that he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.” Contemporaneous HSCA notes indicate Wilcott told staffers, but wasn't allowed to say in Executive session, that the cryptonym for the CIA's "Oswald Project" was RX-ZIM. 2. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s. 3. Robert Webster and LHO "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the spring of 1962. 4. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough all said LHO was associated with the CIA. 5. CIA employee Donald Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA "contact" who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child. 6. Kenneth Porter, employee of CIA-connected Collins Radio, probably left his family to marry (and possibly monitor) Marina Oswald after LHO’s death. 7. George Joannides, CIA case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE. 8. For his achievements, Joannides was given a medal by the CIA. 9. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination. 10. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay reads like a pretty good intelligence report. 11. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots. 12. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera, which the FBI tried to make disappear. 13. Even the official cover story of the radar operator near American U-2 planes defecting to Russia, saying he would give away all his secrets, and returning home without penalty smells like a spy story. 14. CIA's Richard Case Nagell clearly knew about the plot to assassinate JFK and LHO’s relation to it, and he said that the CIA and the FBI ignored his warnings. 15. LHO always seemed poor as a church mouse, until it was time to go “on assignment.” For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations. 16. To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs…. 17. After he “defected” to the Soviet Union in 1959, bragging to U.S. embassy personnel in Moscow that he would tell the Russians everything he knew about U.S. military secrets, he returns to the U.S. without punishment and is then in 1963 given the OK to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union again! 18. Allen Dulles, the CIA director fired by JFK, and the Warren Commission clearly wanted the truth hidden from the public to protect sources and methods of intelligence agencies such as the CIA. Earl Warren said, “Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security.” 19. CIA's Ann Egerter, who worked for J.J. Angleton's Counterintelligence Special Interest Group (CI/SIG), opened a "201" file on Oswald on December 9, 1960. Egerter testified to the HSCA: "We were charged with the investigation of Agency personnel....” When asked if the purpose was to "investigate Agency employees," she answered, "That is correct." When asked, "Would there be any other reason for opening up a file?" she answered, "No, I can't think of one." 20. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, as evidenced by Arthur Krock's infamous defense of the Agency in the Oct. 3, 1963 New York Times. “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn.

Many here undoubtedly know that the integration of Agency and U.S. military personnel was pointed out publicly in the weeks prior to the Kennedy assassination. The article by Richard Starnes shown below prompted the infamous Arthur Krock piece in the NY Times called “The Inter-Agency War in Vietnam.” I’ve highlighted two paragraphs, but the whole thing is fascinating if you haven't seen it. Thanks to Paul Rigby for pointing me to this article many years ago. # # # The Washington Daily News, Wednesday, October 2, 1963, p.3 'SPOOKS' MAKE LIFE MISERABLE FOR AMBASSADOR LODGE 'Arrogant' CIA Disobeys Orders in Viet Nam By Richard T. Starnes SAIGON, Oct.2 - The story of the Central Intelligence Agency's role in South Viet Nam is a dismal chronicle of bureaucratic arrogance, obstinate disregard of orders, and unrestrained thirst for power. Twice the CIA flatly refused to carry out instructions from Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge, according to a high United States source here. In one of these instances the CIA frustrated a plan of action Mr. Lodge brought with him from Washington because the agency disagreed with it. This led to a dramatic confrontation between Mr. Lodge and John Richardson, chief of the huge CIA apparatus here. Mr. Lodge failed to move Mr. Richardson, and the dispute was bucked back to Washington. Secretary of State Dean Rusk and CIA Chief John A. McCone were unable to resolve the conflict, and the matter is now reported to be awaiting settlement by President Kennedy. It is one of the developments expected to be covered in Defense Secretary Robert McNamara's report to Mr. Kennedy. Others Critical, Too Other American agencies here are incredibly bitter about the CIA. "If the United States ever experiences a 'Seven Days in May' it will come from the CIA, and not from the Pentagon," one U.S. official commented caustically. ("Seven Days in May" is a fictional account of an attempted military coup to take over the U.S. Government.) CIA "spooks" (a universal term for secret agents here) have penetrated every branch of the American community in Saigon, until non-spook Americans here almost seem to be suffering a CIA psychosis. An American field officer with a distinguished combat career speaks angrily about "that man at headquarters in Saigon wearing a colonel's uniform." He means the man is a CIA agent, and he can't understand what he is doing at U.S. military headquarters here, unless it is spying on other Americans. Another American officer, talking about the CIA, acidly commented: "You'd think they'd have learned something from Cuba but apparently they didn't." Few Know CIA Strength Few people other than Mr. Richardson and his close aides know the actual CIA strength here, but a widely used figure is 600. Many are clandestine agents known only to a few of their fellow spooks. Even Mr. Richardson is a man about whom it is difficult to learn much in Saigon. He is said to be a former OSS officer, and to have served with distinction in the CIA in the Philippines. A surprising number of the spooks are known to be involved in their ghostly trade and some make no secret of it. "There are a number of spooks in the U.S. Information Service, in the U.S. Operations mission, in every aspect of American official and commercial life here, " one official - presumably a non-spook - said. "They represent a tremendous power and total unaccountability to anyone," he added. Coupled with the ubiquitous secret police of Ngo Dinh Nhu, a surfeit of spooks has given Saigon an oppressive police state atmosphere. The Nhu-Richardson relationship is a subject of lively speculation. The CIA continues to pay the special forces which conducted brutal raids on Buddhist temples last Aug. 21, altho in fairness it should be pointed out that the CIA is paying these goons for the war against communist guerillas, not Buddhist bonzes (priests). Hand Over Millions Nevertheless, on the first of every month, the CIA dutifully hands over a quarter million American dollars to pay these special forces. Whatever else it buys, it doesn't buy any solid information on what the special forces are up to. The Aug. 21 raids caught top U.S. officials here and in Washington flat-footed. Nhu ordered the special forces to crush the Buddhist priests, but the CIA wasn't let in on the secret. (Some CIA button men now say they warned their superiors what was coming up, but in any event the warning of harsh repression was never passed to top officials here or in Washington.) Consequently, Washington reacted unsurely to the crisis. Top officials here and at home were outraged at the news the CIA was paying the temple raiders, but the CIA continued the payments. It may not be a direct subsidy for a religious war against the country's Buddhist majority, but it comes close to that. And for every State Department aide here who will tell you, "Dammit, the CIA is supposed to gather information, not make policy, but policy-making is what they're doing here," there are military officers who scream over the way the spooks dabble in military operations. A Typical Example For example, highly trained trail watchers are an important part of the effort to end Viet Cong infiltration from across the Laos and Cambodia borders. But if the trailer watchers spot incoming Viet Congs, they report it to the CIA in Saigon, and in the fullness of time, the spooks may tell the military. One very high American official here, a man who has spent much of his life in the service of democracy, likened the CIA's growth to a malignancy, and added he was not sure even the White House could control it any longer. Unquestionably Mr. McNamara and Gen. Maxwell Taylor both got an earful from people who are beginning to fear the CIA is becoming a Third Force co-equal with President Diem's regime and the U.S. Government - and answerable to neither. There is naturally the highest interest here as to whether Mr. McNamara will persuade Mr. Kennedy something ought to be done about it. # # #

Looney, you say? How AWFUL it must be to be looney. But... just asking... Would you like to debate the evidence right here for the following statements? Or would you just prefer to provide links claiming to debunk it all? WHY NOT DEBATE HERE, ON THE JFK ASSASSINATION DEBATE FORUM? Please, be brave and pick your topic from the statements below. 1. Way back in 1948, one LHO was living at 101 San Saba in Benbrook while the other was at 3330 Willig St. (and then 7408 Ewing) in Fort Worth. 2. In 1953 the Russian-speaking LHO (Harvey) was sent to Youth House for truancy, fled to Stanley, North Dakota to avoid further entanglement with the NYC legal system, and started attending Beauregard JHS in New Orleans that fall, all the while the American-born LHO (Lee) had good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC. 3. During the fall semester of 1954, Harvey attended Stripling School in Fort Worth while Lee attended Beauregard School in New Orleans,. 4. By the mid-1950s, both Oswalds had various sometimes conflicting jobs, which eventually required the FBI to destroy all the original employment (and school) records for both young men and to create a false employment and education legend. The Social Security Administration refused to corroborate the Official Story® of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps." 5. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: My favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan. Other examples from USMC unit diaries and testimony show how the two LHOs associated with completely different groups of Marines both early and late in their enlistment periods. 6. While Russian-speaking HARVEY was in the Soviet Union, American-born LEE was active briefly as an agent provocateur in NYC, working with Marita Lorenz and anti-Castro Cubans in and around Florida, visiting Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans, and much more. 7. One Oswald never had a driver’s license and could not drive while the other had a valid Texas driver’s license and could drive, including doing work for Jack Ruby in 1963 involving cars. 8. American-born LEE Oswald appeared in Baytown, TX on Labor Day weekend in 1963 attempting to purchase rifles from Fidel Castro’s friend and gun supplier Robert McKeown. At the time, Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald and his family were on holiday with the Murrets at Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana. 9. In October 1963, two different young men, both claiming to be “Lee Harvey Oswald,” appeared before Texas Employment Commission employee Laura Kittrell, the first on October 3 and again a few days later, the second on October 22. Ms Kittell told the HSCA’s Gaeton Fonzi that the second Oswald “looked the same,” and had “the same general outline and coloring and build, but there was something so different in his bearing.” 10. While the other Oswald was elsewhere, LEE Oswald visited the Sports Drome Rifle Range on Oct. 26, Nov. 9, Nov. 10, and again on Nov. 17, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target; 11. On Nov. 2 one LHO visited Morgan's Gun Shop in Fort Worth. 12. Also on Nov. 2 LEE Oswald visited the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership where he test drove a car at recklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car. (Remember that Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald did not have a driver’s license.) 13. On Nov. 6 or 7 LEE Oswald visited the Irving Furniture Mart for a gun part and was referred by the ladies there to the shop where Dial Ryder worked. 14. On Nov. 15, LEE Oswald went to the Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) and applied for a job and asked how high the Southland Building was and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas. 15. On Nov. 20 “Oswald” hitch-hiked on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4 foot long package wrapped in brown paper and introduced himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald,” discussed the President's visit, and asked to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” was already working). 16. On Nov. 22, both LHOs were in Dealey Plaza. One left in a bus and then a taxi; the other got into a Nash Rambler station wagon. By all means, don't visit HarveyandLee.net!

Ron, This is hardly a new theory, but the clearest hint about the origin of the 1959 DOD ID card may be the fact that Richard Case Nagell was carrying a nearly identical copy of it (with a different photo and signature) at the time of his arrest two months before the assassination of JFK. The alleged DOD ID card: Nagell’s copy: However weird Nagell may have been, his intel connections (Army Intelligence and CIA) seem pretty undeniable. He MAY have modified the original modified card himself for reasons unknown, but it seems more likely to me that the card had several different versions that were circulating (created?) by American Intel. Sandy Larsen did work some time back showing more evidence that the photo on the card was a composite of two different people. And I couldn’t agree with Sandy more that the overwhelming evidence is that Oswald was CIA. I’ve been publishing lists of the Oswald intel indicators for many years. One such list is HERE, toward the bottom of the page after Wilcott’s testimony.

Thanks, Ron. Don’t know about a prefix, but the service number on Oswald’s “Application for Enlistment and Individual Data Card” is shown as “165320,” matching the number on the questionable military ID card. On our website, HarveyandLee.net, John Armstrong has noted the following peculiarities about this card, which includes information referring to Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald as well as to American-born LEE Oswald. 1. In Box 1 the original name given and entered was "HARVEY LEE OSWALD." The original name of HARVEY LEE OSWALD was erased and replaced with the name LEE HARVEY OSWALD. Steve Thomas of this forum has an extensive list of many references to “Harvey Lee Oswald.” 2. Box 52 (a). In response to the question "Are your parents living?" HARVEY Oswald said no! 3. Box 52 (b). In response to the question "Are they divorced or separated?" HARVEY said no! 4. Box 53. The name of Robert E. Lee Oswald, DECEASED, was handwritten (not typed) as the father of Lee Harvey Oswald. When and by whom the name Robert E. Lee Oswald was handwritten on this document is unknown. There are a couple of other oddities as well, which can be reviewed HERE. Dr. James Norwood brought this recently discovered Application for Enlistment to our attention.

There are other examples, but here's a partial list of the evidence pointing to two Oswalds. 1. Way back in 1948, one LHO was living at 101 San Saba in Benbrook while the other was at 3330 Willig St. (and then 7408 Ewing) in Fort Worth. 2. In 1953 the Russian-speaking LHO (Harvey) was sent to Youth House for truancy, fled to Stanley, North Dakota to avoid further entanglement with the NYC legal system, and started attending Beauregard JHS in New Orleans that fall, all the while the American-born LHO (Lee) had good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC. 3. During the fall semester of 1954, Harvey attended Stripling School in Fort Worth while Lee attended Beauregard School in New Orleans,. 4. By the mid-1950s, both Oswalds had various sometimes conflicting jobs, which eventually required the FBI to destroy all the original employment (and school) records for both young men and to create a false employment and education legend. The Social Security Administration refused to corroborate the Official Story® of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps." 5. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: My favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan. Other examples from USMC unit diaries and testimony show how the two LHOs associated with completely different groups of Marines both early and late in their enlistment periods. 6. While Russian-speaking HARVEY was in the Soviet Union, American-born LEE was active briefly as an agent provocateur in NYC, working with Marita Lorenz and anti-Castro Cubans in and around Florida, visiting Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans, and much more. 7. One Oswald never had a driver’s license and could not drive while the other had a valid Texas driver’s license and could drive, including doing work for Jack Ruby in 1963 involving cars. 8. American-born LEE Oswald appeared in Baytown, TX on Labor Day weekend in 1963 attempting to purchase rifles from Fidel Castro’s friend and gun supplier Robert McKeown. At the time, Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald and his family were on holiday with the Murrets at Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana. 9. In October 1963, two different young men, both claiming to be “Lee Harvey Oswald,” appeared before Texas Employment Commission employee Laura Kittrell, the first on October 3 and again a few days later, the second on October 22. Ms Kittell told the HSCA’s Gaeton Fonzi that the second Oswald “looked the same,” and had “the same general outline and coloring and build, but there was something so different in his bearing.” 10. While the other Oswald was elsewhere, LEE Oswald visited the Sports Drome Rifle Range on Oct. 26, Nov. 9, Nov. 10, and again on Nov. 17, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target; 11. On Nov. 2 one LHO visited Morgan's Gun Shop in Fort Worth. 12. Also on Nov. 2 LEE Oswald visited the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership where he test drove a car at recklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car. (Remember that Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald did not have a driver’s license.) 13. On Nov. 6 or 7 LEE Oswald visited the Irving Furniture Mart for a gun part and was referred by the ladies there to the shop where Dial Ryder worked. 14. On Nov. 15, LEE Oswald went to the Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) and applied for a job and asked how high the Southland Building was and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas. 15. On Nov. 20 “Oswald” hitch-hiked on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4 foot long package wrapped in brown paper and introduced himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald,” discussed the President's visit, and asked to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” was already working). 16. On Nov. 22, both LHOs were in Dealey Plaza. One left in a bus and then a taxi; the other got into a Nash Rambler station wagon. 17. Two men who looked similar were detained by police in the Texas Theater, according to Butch Burroughs and Bernard Haire.

What a hoot! I stay away from this forum for months, and then come back today to see Jonathan Cohen making up stuff about me again! Cohen admitted in May of last year that "there is evidence Oswald was impersonated at various points in his life." But, of course, he wants to see nothing suspicious about that at all! Don't even think about it, it happens to every Lone Nut, eh?

No! Attempting to have a substantive debate with Jeremy Bojczuk is impossible. He totally ignores issues that are uncomfortable for him and endlessly repeats his doppelganger arguments that have been answered time and time again on this very discussion thread. I won’t bother asking Jeremy, for the tenth time, if he will share with us the earliest date he believes LHO was impersonated. He clearly will not discuss the issue. I won’t bother asking Jeremy, again, about his foolish post saying bus passenger Milton Jones simply had to be describing someone other than Classic Oswald®. I destroyed his argument just a few pages back on this very thread and he obviously wants to ignore the debacle he created with his ridiculous post(s). And I certainly won’t bother asking Jeremy, again, to debate HERE any of the evidence for the long-term existence of an LHO impostor. In all those cases, he merely posts a few links and pretends someone else somewhere else has debunked it all. It is not true! Little of the EVIDENCE John Armstrong collected for his book Harvey and Lee has been debunked anywhere. If it had been, Mr. Bojczuk surely would have made his arguments here, rather than hide behind a flurry of links that prove nothing. I will wait and wait for Jeremy or anyone else to debate on this forum the H&L evidence, but I won’t hold my breath. Jeremy probably knows all too well that the evidence for two Oswalds is so substantial it is nearly impossible to explain it all with “alternative explanations.” For example: The Social Security Administration refused to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps." Way back in 1948, one LHO was living at 101 San Saba in Benbrook while the other was at 3330 Willig St. (and then 7408 Ewing) in Fort Worth. In 1953 the Russian-speaking LHO (Harvey) was sent to Youth House for truancy, fled to Stanley, North Dakota to avoid further entanglement with the NYC legal system, and started attending Beauregard JHS in New Orleans that fall, all the while the American-born LHO (Lee) had good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC. During the fall semester of 1954, Harvey attended Stripling School in Fort Worth while Lee attended Beauregard School in New Orleans,. By the mid-1950s, both Oswalds had various sometimes conflicting jobs, which eventually required the FBI to destroy all the original employment (and school) records for both young men and to create a false employment and education legend. The Social Security Administration refused to corroborate the Official Story® of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps." The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: My favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan. Other examples from USMC unit diaries and testimony show how the two LHOs associated with completely different groups of Marines both early and late in their enlistment periods. While Russian-speaking HARVEY was in the Soviet Union, American-born LEE was active briefly as an agent provocateur in NYC, working with Marita Lorenz and anti-Castro Cubans in and around Florida, visiting Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans, and much more. One Oswald never had a driver’s license and could not drive while the other had a valid Texas driver’s license and could drive, including doing work for Jack Ruby in 1963 involving cars. American-born LEE Oswald appeared in Baytown, TX on Labor Day weekend in 1963 attempting to purchase rifles from Fidel Castro’s friend and gun supplier Robert McKeown. At the time, Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald and his family were on holiday with the Murrets at Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana. I won’t bother listing all the times one LHO set up the other in the weeks preceding the JFK assassination. There is an entire Hollywood motion picture named Executive Action that describes that situation. Other than providing links claiming that all the above has been debunked elsewhere, Jeremy simply won’t debate HERE any of the evidence above, and, therefore, I don’t see much point debating him any more.

Does Mr. Bojczuk deliberately misunderstand the advantages of an intelligence project involving doubles? Total deniability via the existence of a continuous and automatic alibi is only POSSIBLE via the use of an impostor. Again, as John A. wrote nearly two decades ago: The use of twins allows an intelligence agency to place "one person" in different places at the same time. The first twin could be involved in an illegal or clandestine operation, while the second twin was in a different location with people who could provide an alibi if necessary. If the first twin was identified by witnesses as having committed a crime, then he/she could be apprehended by authorities. When questioned by authorities, the first twin would simply provide the names of witnesses who were with his twin in a different location when the crime was committed. When authorities interviewed those witnesses, and verified the story, the first twin would be released. Unless the authorities knew about the second twin, it would be very difficult to charge the first twin with a crime. In a professional and carefully planned covert operation no one would realize what had happened, and both twins would walk away. [H&L p. 8] Mr. Bojczuk is apparently only interested in trying to misrepresent the obvious advantages of this total deniability that is often so important in intelligence operations. And he apparently is going to ignore my destruction of his total mishandling of Milton Jones’s description of the LHO on McWatters’ bus. He does not want to discuss how it was possible that bus driver McWatters was looking at Oswald in a police lineup on the very day of the assassination. Why won’t Mr. Bojczuk discuss his disastrous handling of Milton Jones and the bus evidence? It appears that he is afraid. And, lest we forget…. For the NINTH time now, I’ll ask Jeremy: Will you EVER share with us the earliest date you believe LHO was impersonated? If you ever answer this question, we could then take a look to see if there is strong evidence of an earlier impersonation.

DID ONE OSWALD TAKE THE BUS AND TAXI WHILE THE OTHER GOT INTO A NASH RAMBLER? In THIS POST, Jeremy Boczuk proclaimed the following: And in THIS POST, I responded with the following: According to the Official Story®, the transfer was found just after 4 pm on 11/22. Dallas Transit System Division Superintendent F.F. Yates immediately indicated that transfer #004459 came from a book of transfers issued that morning to Cecil McWatters. Was Yates part of the conspiracy? This hardly seems to be made up because….. Just two hours later, McWatters was staring at LHO in a police lineup. Regardless of what you think of the bus and taxi evidence, if this was all invented, how did it start so quickly in the way it apparently did?

Jeremy Bojczuk keeps asking the same questions again and again and acts as if they haven’t been answered already numerous times. For example, I have answered the question above HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE, among other places. Now that I’ve answered your question yet again, Jeremy, will you FINALLY answer mine? For the EIGHTH time now, I’ll ask Jeremy: Will you EVER share with us the earliest date you believe LHO was impersonated? If you ever answer this question, we could then take a look to see if there is strong evidence of an earlier impersonation. And now, let’s get back to discussing the evidence relative to this very thread….

And in at least three different posts earlier in this very thread I explained to you that in addition to already having a working knowledge of Russian language and culture, the Oswald impostor (and, of course, the real Oswald) together provided the opportunity to plausibly deny almost anything either Oswald did, a technique that was used scores of times in this very case! My bet is that the fine folks who brought us MKULTRA chose a war orphan to be the Oswald impostor because he could be treated not as a human being but as mere chattel, an outrage made all the easier because he had no real parents to protect him. I have given you these answers at least four times now, and you continue to pretend I haven’t. Why do you do that? Are you determined to discuss philosophy instead of actual EVIDENCE in this case? Now that I’ve answered your question yet again, Jeremy, will you FINALLY answer mine? For the SEVENTH time now, I’ll ask: Will you EVER share with us the earliest date you believe LHO was impersonated? If you ever answer this question, we could then take a look to see if there is strong evidence of an earlier impersonation.

Are you now admitting that he was a spy?

Of course he was. He was trying to improve the Russian language skills he had learned as a child. If he didn’t already know some Russian, please explain to me how a dictionary would help learn such a difficult language by translating a newspaper. James Anthony Botelho indicated that “Oswald subscribed to a newspaper printed in Russian, which I believe he said was published in San Francisco.” My bet is there was only one Russian language newspaper printed in San Francisco, and here, again, is an image of it. No doubt you’ll tell us that you could learn Russian by working with the above and a dictionary, but the position seems ludicrous. On the military tests, the Russian speaking Oswald, compared to his exam-taking cohorts, scored approximately the same on a Russian language exam as he did on English language exams. No rhetoric will change that. Mr. ELY - All right. Now, moving further down page 7, we have the record of a Russian examination taken by Oswald on February 25, 1959. Could you explain to us what sort of test this was, and what the scores achieved by Oswald mean? Colonel FOLSOM - The test form was Department of the Army, Adjutant General's Office, PRT-157. This is merely the test series designation. Now, under "understands" the scoring was minus 5, which means that he got five more wrong than right. The "P" in parentheses indicates "poor." Under reading he achieved a score of 4, which is low. This, again, is shown by the "P" in parentheses for "poor." Mr. ELY - This 4 means he got four more questions right than wrong? Colonel FOLSOM - This is correct. And under "writes" he achieved a score of 3, with "P" in parentheses, and this indicates he got three more right than he did wrong. His total score was 2, with a "P" in parentheses meaning that overall he got two more right than wrong, and his rating was poor throughout. Mr. ELY - Page 7 also summarizes the results of the battery of classification and aptitude tests taken by Oswald upon his entry into the Marine Corps, specifically on October 30, 1956. This battery was composed of six examinations. Oswald's scores I see range from as low as 92 to as high as 125. Could you, Colonel, tell us about these six categories, what they are, and what Oswald's scores in each of them means? Colonel FOLSOM - Yes. I will take this in sequence. The "RV" indicates reading and vocabulary, and the score, Roman numeral II-125 indicates that he was in the second category. Categories throughout the test battery run from I to IV, with IV being the highest.The abbreviation "AC"---arithmetical computation--and the score Roman numeral III-108, indicates that he dropped into the third class."AR" is arithmetical computation, Roman numeral III-90, indicates that he was at the bottom of the Grade 3 in this area. "PA" indicates pattern analysis, Roman numeral III-94 indicates that he was the bottom portion of the third group in this category. Now, these four areas are grouped into a general classification test score, the abbreviation "GCT" represents that definition. And as a result of Oswald's composite scores, he was graded as a Grade 3, Roman III-103. At that time, Marine Corps average, I believe, was 107. Mr. ELY - Would you explain the one designated "RCT"? Colonel FOLSOM - The abbreviation "RCT" is--represents radio code test. There are three scores in this, ranging from one to three, with one being the highest. The minimum, or the range in Grade III is from 90 to 109. As Oswald achieved 92, he was in the bottom, practically, of Group III. Mr. ELY - Which is the lowest group. Colonel FOLSOM - Which is the lowest. As Dr. James Norwood wrote on our website, “In a closed-door meeting of the Warren Commission, general counsel J. Lee Rankin suggested that Oswald might have received language instruction at the famed Monterey School of the Army, stating that ‘we are trying to find out what [Oswald] studied at the Monterey School of the Army in the way of languages.’ [18] According to the website of the Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center in Monterey, California, the current basic course in Russian language lasts for forty-eight weeks of intensive study. [19] In the 1950s, the duration almost certainly would not have been any shorter. Oswald’s service records in the Marines demonstrate that he was never in residence anywhere near Monterey and that it would have been impossible for him to have spent as much as forty-eight weeks devoted to intensive foreign language studies during his years in the Marines.” [18] James Douglass, JFK and the Unspeakable—Why He Died and Why It Matters (Ossining, N.Y.: Orbis Books, 2008), 406, n. 122. The complete dossier of J. Lee Rankin is housed in the National Archives with the following table of contents: http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/finding-aids/rankin-records.html.[19] The home page of the Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center may be found at: http://www.dliflc.edu/about/languages-at-dliflc/

Jeremy spams this Forum by asking the same question again and again and pretending I haven’t answered it many times. As I said on the previous page of this topic, Jeremy continues to ignore my repeated question, but I’ll nevertheless answer his question for the umpteeth time: The purpose of the Oswald project was to give a Russian-speaking youth an American identity so he could eventually travel to Russia and secretly understand more of what was being said in Russian by people around him. As almost everyone except Jeremy understands, starting with a youth who already understood the Russian language had a huge advantage over anyone who might begin taking instructions as an adult or near adult. It was also handy that Harvey was an orphan, with no real parents to look after him. And on Jeremy’s endlessly repeated question about the use of doubles, which he pretends hasn’t been answered many times, I’ve already given specific examples of how the doubles were used effectively in this very case, but, for now, I’ll just repeat what I said back on May 26: As John A. wrote nearly two decades ago in the opening pages of Harvey and Lee (emphasis added): The use of twins allows an intelligence agency to place "one person" in different places at the same time. The first twin could be involved in an illegal or clandestine operation, while the second twin was in a different location with people who could provide an alibi if necessary. If the first twin was identified by witnesses as having committed a crime, then he/she could be apprehended by authorities. When questioned by authorities, the first twin would simply provide the names of witnesses who were with his twin in a different location when the crime was committed. When authorities interviewed those witnesses, and verified the story, the first twin would be released. Unless the authorities knew about the second twin, it would be very difficult to charge the first twin with a crime. In a professional and carefully planned covert operation no one would realize what had happened, and both twins would walk away. A similar operation could involve one of the twins, "C" (criminal), committing a crime while the second twin, "P" (the Patsy), was in a different location and knew nothing about what has happening. Twin "C" would commit the crime in the presence of witnesses, but twin "P" would be identified as the culprit and subsequently arrested. "P" would adamantly deny any involvement in the crime, but with numerous witnesses placing him at the scene of the crime his denials would not be believed. If the crime was serious, and the "Patsy" was killed before he had an opportunity to tell authorities about his twin, then the truth about the crime might never be known. An operation involving twins or "doubles," if carefully planned, is almost sure to succeed. The use of twins has provided intelligence agencies with "plausible deniability" for years, and allowed them to deny involvement in illegal operations. "Plausible deniability" is an important part of all CIA operations, and was a term often used by CIA Director Allen Dulles to explain away troubling situations. [H&L pp. 8-9] Now that I’ve answered your question yet again, Jeremy, will you finally answer mine? For the SIXTH time now, I’ll ask: Will you EVER share with us the earliest date you believe LHO was impersonated? If you ever answer this question, we could then take a look to see if there is strong evidence of an earlier impersonation.

Allen, I made the post below a couple of years ago on this Forum. Perhaps it will help. According to the 1964 testimony of Lt. Col. Allison G. Folsom, Lee Harvey Oswald answered four more questions right than wrong in a Russian language exam administered to him while he was still in the Marines. The overall score was rated “poor,” which is the same rating he was given in a series of tests including English reading and vocabulary. Before ever setting foot in the Soviet Union, Oswald scored as well in a Russian-language exam as he did in tests of his English. Are we to believe this was merely because he was “motivated” to teach himself Russian? A few years ago, a professional English/German foreign language instructor named Mathias Baumann posted on this forum about Oswald’s remarkable command of the Russian language. Here’s what Mathias wrote: I'm not yet convinced of the two Oswalds theory, but I think the question how Oswald learned Russian so quickly does merit some serious consideration. First of all I asked myself: How difficult was the test Oswald took? So I did some googling on U.S. Military language tests and I found this bit of information: "People wishing to work as military language analysts are required to maintain at least L2/R2 proficiency." Source: https://www.german-way.com/levels-of-language-proficiency-my-life-in-germany/ L2/R2 is the level of an advanced beginner, which I think roughly equates to the A2 level of the Common European Framework (CEF). You need to take on average 80 to 120 individual (one-on-one) lessons (a lesson being 45 minutes) or 400 lessons of a group course to reach this level in the German language (provided that you already know the Roman Alphabet). These numbers do not include the time you need for homework, mind you. And Russian is even more difficult than German. It's considered a level 3 language (German is level 2): https://www.thebalance.com/defense-language-aptitude-battery-3332702 So considering Oswald was of average intelligence I estimate he would've needed at least somewhere between 100 to 200 lessons of instruction plus about the same amount of time to prepare for the lessons in order to pass the Marine Corps test. And that is a low and optimistic estimate. But maybe Oswald was highly intelligent and able to learn foreign languages more quickly than others? I took a look at his school career. It turns out he was rather intelligent: Lee scored an IQ of 118 on the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children. According to Sokolow, this indicated a "present intellectual functioning in the upper range of bright normal intelligence." 67 Sokolow said that although Lee was "presumably disinterested in school subjects he operates on a much higher than average level." 68 On the Monroe Silent Reading Test, Lee's score indicated no retardation in reading speed and comprehension; he had better than average ability in arithmetical reasoning for his age group. 69 Source: https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-7.html#newyork But I found no evidence that he ever learned a foreign language at school, so I presume he was unfamiliar with the necessary techniques. On the other hand Nelson Delgado is supposed to have taught Oswald Spanish, which might indicate that Oswald learned languages quickly. But the important point here is that he had an instructor - Delgado. Language is all about communication, so without an interlocutor it is very hard to learn a language, because actual practice is an integral part of the whole process. So my conclusion is that Oswald would not have passed the test without intensive regular instruction. This link is also very interesting: http://www.dliflc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Generic-Fam-Guide-MC-CBu-updated.pdf The target level of foreign language tests in the US military is L5/R5. So if Oswald got about 50 percent of the questions right, that means he reached level L2/R2. And without instruction that is EXTREMELY difficult, especially considering the difficulty of Russian. I'm sure he received extensive training. Here's an image of a Russian language newspaper printed in San Francisco that is probably similar to the one Oswald reportedly read in the Marine corps while stationed in California. Can you imagine teaching yourself to read, write, and speak this language without any formal instruction? It seems to me there are only two possible explanations for Oswald's Russian-language ability before he ever travelled to Russia. The first is that he had extensive training in Russian--suggesting he was being trained as a spy for the Russian assignment coming up--or second, that he learned Russian as a youngster, which is what John Armstrong, James Norwood, and quite a few others believe, including me.

Neither of us are prepared to analyze the decision-making process for a group of people who brought us the MK Ultra project, but in general terms it seems obvious why lookalikes would be used in the Oswald project. Again, though, I must say that I believe that Russian-speaking Harvey was probably a little older than American-born Lee. The whole idea of the Oswald project was to give a Russian-speaking youth an American identity so he could eventually travel to Russia and learn more about its culture. The plan worked beautifully, until it later became entangled in the Kennedy assassination. Obviously enough, the planners felt that, for the project to work, the long-term impostor needed to have experiences at least similar to his counterpart. And the two needed to have similar appearances. That’s almost certainly why, in 1948, one LHO was living at 101 San Saba in Benbrook while the other was at 3330 Willig St. (and then 7408 Ewing) in nearby Fort Worth. These sites (San Saba and Ewing St.) are less than 10 miles apart. By the early 1950s, both Oswalds were attending school in New York City, which is the very type of educational jungle the Oswald project could thrive in without detection. Even then, however, Lee’s good attendance record and Harvey’s chronic truancy threatened to expose the whole project when it got involved in the New York court system. Harvey had to flee to North Dakota and, eventually, the original NYC school records for “Oswald” all disappeared while in FBI custody, to be replaced by easy-to-modify b&w photos. Both Oswalds attended Beauregard School in New Orleans just, I believe, to give them similar experiences again. By the mid-1950s, both Oswalds began working in a series of relatively low-paying jobs with dates often conflicted with each other. These conflicts eventually required the FBI to destroy all the original employment (and school) records for both young men and to create a false employment and education legend. The Social Security Administration refused to corroborate the Official Story® of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps." It’s a rather straight-forward exercise to track the two Oswalds’ activities in the Marine Corps, which both participated in at roughly the same time. My favorite example was Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan. Other examples from USMC unit diaries and testimony show how the two LHOs associated with completely different groups of Marines both early and late in their enlistment periods. Most of the above, and many other examples, would have the highest chance of success and the lowest chance of detection if both LHOs had similar appearances. * * * * * Now that I’ve answered your question yet again, will you finally answer mine? For the fifth time now, I’ll ask again. Will you EVER share with us the earliest date you believe LHO was impersonated? If you ever answers this question, we could then take a look to see if there is strong evidence of an earlier impersonation.

John, Thanks for the interesting post. We don’t differ that much in our guesstimates about Harvey Oswald’s origins, but I’m glad you brought up the anonymous phone call received by Mrs. Jack Tippitt. Here is the entire FBI report about it. As you implied above, “Emile Kardos” is undoubtedly communist activist and FBI informant “Emile Gardos.”