American Security Council

[Tim Gratz]

And the link between the ASC and the JFK case is . . . . ?

[Ron Ecker]

And the link between the ASC and the JFK case is . . . . ?

"I suspect everyone, I suspect no one." - Inspector Clouseau

[Tim Gratz]

Ron, if we can indeed get a new investigation going, d'ya think Closeau would be available to serve as the chief investigator?

Seriously, the problem is if you suspect "everyone" you divert your attention from the "real suspects". Assassination researchers IMO ought to spend their time on things such as the medical/ballistic evidence, what new leads to be explored if there is a new investigation, etc.

Moreover, following Closeau's dictum plays into the hands of VB. Have you seen the pages in his book where he ridicules the research community by listing all those who have been accused of involvement in the assassination? Perhaps we deserve the ridicule.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Ron Ecker]

The possible "link" between the ASC and the assassination is obvious. Someone has aptly described the ASC in its membership as the personification of the military industrial complex. IMO the MIC was behind the assassination.

The ASC could have facilitated organized planning of the assassination, since I assume its members would periodically get together as a matter of course. Much like Billie Sol Estes' claim that the assassination plot was finalized over a poker game in Texas.

[Tim Gratz]

Well of course there is no evidence that the MIC had anything whatsoever to do with the assassination but again what has the absolute absence of any evidence ever stopped us?

By the way, Bugliosi's book makes a convincing argument, IMO, why the MIC had nothing to do with the assassination.

Look at what JFK did for the MIC after all. From his scheduled speech at the Trade Mart:

First, as Secretary McNamara made clear in his address last Monday, the strategic nuclear power of the United States has been so greatly modernized and expanded in the last 1,000 days, by the rapid production and deployment of the most modem missile systems, that any and all potential aggressors are clearly confronted now with the impossibility of strategic victory - and the certainty of total destruction - if by reckless attack they should ever force upon us the necessity of a strategic reply.

In less than 3 years, we have increased by 50 percent the number of Polaris submarines scheduled to be in force by the next fiscal year, increased by more than 70 percent our total Polaris purchase program, increased by more than 75 percent our Minuteman purchase program, increased by 50 percent the portion of our strategic bombers on 15-minute alert, and increased by 100 percent the total number of nuclear weapons available in our strategic alert forces. Our security is further enhanced by the steps we have taken regarding these weaponsto improve the speed and certainty of their response, their readiness at all times to respond, their ability to survive an attack, and their ability to be carefully controlled and directed through secure command operations.

But the lessons of the last decade have taught us that freedom cannot be defended by strategic nuclear power alone. We have, therefore, in the last 3 years accelerated the development and deployment of tactical nuclear weapons, and increased by 60 percent the tactical nuclear forces deployed in Western Europe.

Nor can Europe or any other continent rely on nuclear forces alone, whether they are strategic or tactical. We have radically improved the readiness of our conventional forces increased by 45 percent the number of combat ready Army divisions, increased by 100 percent the procurement of modem Army weapons and equipment, increased by 100 percent our ship construction, conversion, and modernization program, increased by 100 percent our procurement of tactical aircraft, increased by 30 percent the number of tactical air squadrons, and increased the strength of the Marines. As last month's "Operation Big Lift" - which originated here in Texas - showed so clearly, this Nation is prepared as never before to move substantial numbers of men in surprisingly little time to advanced positions anywhere in the world. We have increased by 175 percent the procurement of airlift aircraft, and we have already achieved a 75 percent increase in our existing strategic airlift capability. Finally, moving beyond the traditional roles of our military forces, we have achieved an increase of nearly 600 percent in our special forces - those forces that are prepared to work with our allies and friends against the guerrillas, saboteurs, insurgents and assassins who threaten freedom in a less direct but equally dangerous manner.

If the MIC killed JFK, rather than being jailed or executed they should have been locked up in the looney bin! (And by the way the "race to the moon" that JFK started certainly benefitted the MIC as well!

Edited August 14, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

Peter Dale Scott, in his new book The Road to 9/11, mentions the ASC in an interesting context.

First of all he says "the ASC united old-wealth oil and military corportions with new-wealth businesses n the South and the West,

some of which incorporated investments from organized crime" (p. 18). Do we agree with this as a working definition?

He also has this interesting paragraph:

The overworld was clearly centered in Wall Street in the 1940s, and CIA was promarily designed there. With the postwar

shifts of U.S. demographics and economic structure southward and westward, the overworld itself has shifted, becoming less

defined by geography, than by the interrelated functions of the petroleum-industrial-financial complex. Cheyney's global

oilfield services firm Halliburton, today a "bridge betwen the oil industry and the military-industrial complex" was nowhere

near the Wall Street power center in the 1940's. This shift in the overworld led by 1968 to a polarizing debate over the

Vietnam War. The expanding Military-Industiral -Complex, dedicated to winning that war at any cost, found itself increasingly

opposed by elements of Wall Street (which at the time I labeled "the CIA-financial establishment') who feared the impact

of the war's costs on the stability of the dollar. I agrue that Nixon's inability to satisfy either of the two polarized factions--

symbolized by the American Security Council and the Council on Foreign Relations-- was a major factor in the unprecedented

and ultimately unresolved drama of Watergate.

Does this strike anyone as a worthy framework for understanding Watergate? Also wondering if it jibes with Hougan's Secret Agenda

and the other book called Silent Coup. Or whatever else this paragraph might provoke.

[Myra Bronstein]

Peter Dale Scott, in his new book The Road to 9/11, mentions the ASC in an interesting context.

First of all he says "the ASC united old-wealth oil and military corportions with new-wealth businesses n the South and the West,

some of which incorporated investments from organized crime" (p. 18). Do we agree with this as a working definition?

...

Clearly he's talking about oil as some of the new wealth.

Possibly also Brown & Root, which was getting big contracts from their lackey LBJ when he was a congressman in the 40's, more so after he became a senator in 1948.

But I'm a little unclear on the organized crime tie in.

Could he be referring to gambling, Vegas?

Could he already be talking about drugs/opium/heroin? Scott seems to operate on the premise that one can't see the big picture unless one sees the role of drug running.

...

He also has this interesting paragraph:

The overworld was clearly centered in Wall Street in the 1940s, and CIA was promarily designed there. With the postwar

shifts of U.S. demographics and economic structure southward and westward, the overworld itself has shifted, becoming less

defined by geography, than by the interrelated functions of the petroleum-industrial-financial complex. Cheyney's global

oilfield services firm Halliburton, today a "bridge betwen the oil industry and the military-industrial complex" was nowhere

near the Wall Street power center in the 1940's. This shift in the overworld led by 1968 to a polarizing debate over the

Vietnam War. The expanding Military-Industiral -Complex, dedicated to winning that war at any cost, found itself increasingly

opposed by elements of Wall Street (which at the time I labeled "the CIA-financial establishment') who feared the impact

of the war's costs on the stability of the dollar. I agrue that Nixon's inability to satisfy either of the two polarized factions--

symbolized by the American Security Council and the Council on Foreign Relations-- was a major factor in the unprecedented

and ultimately unresolved drama of Watergate.

Does this strike anyone as a worthy framework for understanding Watergate? Also wondering if it jibes with Hougan's Secret Agenda

and the other book called Silent Coup. Or whatever else this paragraph might provoke.

I don't know if it explains Watergate. I'm too confused.

It does sound though like he's trying very hard not to use the term "yankee and cowboy war."

And it underscores the fact that even if we can figure out the cosmic org chart for circa 1963, it's changed.

For example the way Bush treated the CIA the past few years. Obviously he couldn't have done that decades ago and lived.

So now there are entries in the org charg, e.g., Carlyle Group, that didn't exist in 1963.

And they seem more powerful than the CIA.

[Tim Gratz]

Myra wrote:

For example the way Bush treated the CIA the past few years. Obviously he couldn't have done that decades ago and lived.

Why it's as obvious as the nose on your face!

"Reclaiming History, Second Edition."

Folks, are we TRYING to establish VB's premise that anyone who believes in a conspiracy is bonkers? Well, we couldn't be doing a much better job if we WERE trying!

By the way, in one sense this also makes my point that in one sense I could care less (other than for the sake of a correct history) if Richard Helms, or anyone else in the CIA, killed JFK. If Richard Helms was a murderer, that does not make George Tenet a murderer. If JFK was killed with the help of a rogue CIA agent or even a rogue CIA officer, that does not indict the CIA as an institution. Moreover, as someone once said, the CIA would screw up trying to kill my dog!

(In "Legacy of Ashes" it is revealed that when the CIA reviewed a tap on a U.S. Ambassador's residence, the CIA mistook her sweet-talk to her DOG as her romancing a female secretary. Since the CIA in its official response to the book did not deny the incident, apparently the CIA officer who was reviewing the tapes found nothing strange in the fact that the human conversation was all one-sided. Who knows maybe the CIA guy even had to ignore the barks of the dog!)

Trust me on this, if the CIA cannot kill the leader of a banana republic even with the help of the MAFIA, it surely could not kill the POTUS! In "Reclaiming History" VB argues against CIA involvement by saying why would the CIA employ a nut like Oswald? I say VB has it turned around. The better way to look at it is this: assuming LHO was involved in a conspiracy, the last group he would pick as a partner would be the CIA!

Edited August 20, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Myra Bronstein]

...

The following information is in the form of quotes from Russ Bellant's "Old Nazis, the New Right, and the Republican Party," a work of investigative journalism.

...

Has anyone here read this book?

http://tinyurl.com/3a6zxh

[Myra Bronstein]

...

Quite a list of names!.....the phrase 'thick as theives' comes to mind. Here are a few other founders:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...ouncil#Founders

...

Um, look what else it says on the sourcewatch site:

"The origins of ASC date back to 1938. The inner circle which would form the Council was originally composed of Henry Luce and Clare Boothe Luce, Jay Lovestone, Hughston McBain, Theodore V. Houser, Ambassador Arthur Bliss Lane and Lady Malcolm Douglas Hamilton. They all brought in new people to the inner circle, but the key to their success was working together for a common goal in a bipartisan manner."

Luce...

Where was it that I read that Luce was friends with Joe Kennedy, but went to the white house for lunch and got in a huge fight with President Kennedy over his policies and ended up storming out? Might have been Prouty's book... argh, can't recall for sure.

[Myra Bronstein]

The American Security Council (ASC) was established by Robert Wood, chairman and president of Sears, Roebuck & Company, and Robert R. McCormick, of the Chicago Tribune, in 1955. Wood and McCormick started the ASC because they believed that the United States had lost the Korean War because of communist infiltrators. John Fisher, a former FBI agent and chief of security at Sears, Roebuck & Company. Early members included Douglas MacArthur, Sam Rayburn, Ray S. Cline, Thomas J. Dodd, W. Averell Harriman, Nelson A. Rockefeller, Eugene V. Rostow, John G. Tower, John K. Singlaub, Lawrence P. McDonald and Patrick J. Frawley....

...

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKamericansc.htm

John, on your ASC webpage you list Lyman Lemnitzer as an early member.

That seems highly significant...

Do you know of a source for that information?

[John Simkin]

...

Quite a list of names!.....the phrase 'thick as theives' comes to mind. Here are a few other founders:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...ouncil#Founders

...

Um, look what else it says on the sourcewatch site:

"The origins of ASC date back to 1938. The inner circle which would form the Council was originally composed of Henry Luce and Clare Boothe Luce, Jay Lovestone, Hughston McBain, Theodore V. Houser, Ambassador Arthur Bliss Lane and Lady Malcolm Douglas Hamilton."

Malcolm Douglas Hamilton was a member of the highly secret "Right Club" in the 1930s. It was later discovered that members of the Right Club were providing classified information to the Nazis. The Right Club was closely connected to American Nazis. Tyler Kent, a cypher clerk from the American Embassy, was part of the Right Club spy ring.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWrightclub.htm

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=7976

Malcolm Douglas Hamilton's older brother was the Duke of Hamilton. He shared his fascist views and was the man that Rudolf Hess was trying to meet when his aircraft came down in Scotland on 10th May, 1941.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERhamilton.htm

See this thread:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10003

Recently disclosed documents from MI5 show, that, on August 1, 1936, Lord Malcolm flew a de Havilland plane to Spain, that he delivered to pro-Franco nationalists.

Lord Hamilton started his own charter flying company in the early 1960s, and with his son Niall traversed remote parts of the globe. It was on one such trip through Cameroon in 1964 that Lord Malcolm went missing with his son Niall and a passenger, in the heavy equatorial mountainous jungle of Cameroon. United Fruit helped to search for his body. I assume he was working for United Fruit at this time.

Tommy Corcoran was recruited by Sam Zemurray to join the United Fruit Company as a lobbyist and special counsel in 1949. Corcoran is a man of special interest to me. He worked very closely with the OSS in China during the Second World War. The people he worked with included included Paul Helliwell, E. Howard Hunt, Mitch Werbell, Lucien Conein, John Singlaub and Ray Cline.

Tommy Corcoran joined with David Corcoran and William S. Youngman to create a Panamanian company, Rio Carthy, for the purpose of pursuing business ventures in Asia and South America. Soon afterwards, Claire Lee Chennault and Whiting Willauer approached Corcoran with the idea of creating a commercial airline in China to compete with CNAC and CATC. Corcoran agreed to use Rio Cathy as the legal vehicle for investing in the airline venture. Chiang Kai-shek agreed that his government would invest in the airline.

Civil Air Transport (CAT) was officially launched on 29th January, 1946. The OSS had been disbanded in October 1945 and was replaced by the War Department's Strategic Service Unit (SSU). Paul Helliwell became chief of the Far East Division of the SSU. In 1947 the SSU was replaced by the Central Intelligence Agency.

CAT needed another major customer and on 6th July, 1947, Corcoran and Claire Lee Chennault had a meeting with Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, the new director of the CIA. Hillenkoetter arranged for Corcoran to meet Frank Wisner, the director of the Office of Policy Coordination. Wisner was in charge of the CIA's covert operations.

On 1st November, 1948, Corcoran signed a formal agreement with the CIA. The agreement committed the agency to provide up to $500,000 to finance an CAT airbase, and $200,000 to fly agency personnel and equipment in and out of the mainland, and to underwrite any shortfall that might result from any hazardous mission. Over the next few months CAT airlifted personnel and equipment from Chungking, Kweilin, Luchnow, Nanking, and Amoy.

In 1948, Lyndon B. Johnson recruited Tommy Corcoran as a political "fixer". He held this position up until the death of JFK. Corcoran was a devout Roman Catholic and a passionate anti-communist. As was Patrick Frawley, the main financial sponsor of the American Security Council.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKcorcoran.htm

[Myra Bronstein]

Here is the history of the ASC according to their website:

http://www.ascfusa.org/index.php?option=co...=view&id=13

"The American Security Council Foundation (ASCF) was formed in 1958, and it was originally known as the Institute for American Strategy. For almost 50 years the Foundation has focused on a wide range of educational programs which address critical challenges to U.S. foreign policy, national security and the global economy."

...

Yup, that's it.

Maybe I have to become a member to find out more.

[Myra Bronstein]

Interesting site where one can look up articles on the Right by individual, organization or company.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/?so...tle_tagline#org

Thanks for posting the material on the ASC Peter.

You find excellent websites.

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

Peter that Right Web site looks good. As I looked at it occured to me how much of our population has almost no historical awareness of the

right wing foundations and think tanks that began thier revolution around 74-75. I think thi is worth sending around, and I will do so.

It is no coincidence that AEI windbag Wiliam Schnieder became the leading campaign comentator on CNN. His comments always help Hillary, and amount to a gift worth perhaps 50 million dollars in addition to the huge advantage she already has.

Oh sorry to take us off the American Security Council topic.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Nathaniel Heidenheimer