The "Wound Ballistics Of 6.5-mm. Mannlicher-Carcano Ammunition" Report

[Greg Burnham]

An associate of mine fired this 6.5 mm Mannlicher round into the radius bone of a cadaver. It struck the bone dead center, shattering it. The round was slowed after impact by cotton wadding where it was then retrieved.

[Robert Prudhomme]

An associate of mine fired this 6.5 mm Mannlicher round into the radius bone of a cadaver. It struck the bone dead center, shattering it. The round was slowed after impact by cotton wadding where it was then retrieved.

Hi Greg

Do you know which model of Carcano he fired that bullet from?

[Robert Prudhomme]

It would be interesting to test fire a Carcano bullet into a cadaver's wrist, but after reducing the gunpowder charge to the point the bullet only had a muzzle velocity of around 1000 fps.

Quite frankly, I don't believe a bullet that travelled through a human neck, without hitting bone, and then followed the outside edge of a rib for four inches, would have lost as much velocity as Von Pain's "researchers" would try to have us believe. After reading Connally's medical evidence, I also don't believe the bullet was tumbling when it struck Connally.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Kenneth Drew]

The Edgewood Arsenal "Wound Ballistics Of 6.5-mm. Mannlicher-Carcano Ammunition" report is very interesting reading. More conspiracy theorists should look at it. Here it is.

Every single test performed between April 1964 and October 1964 by Dr. Olivier and Dr. Dziemian at Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland is consistent with the Warren Commission's ultimate conclusions.

I.E.:

Per the Edgewood Arsenal ballistics tests with Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle, that exact rifle was capable of causing all of the wounds that were inflicted on President Kennedy and Governor Connally on 11/22/63.

Quoting directly from the Edgewood report:

"Experiments were performed with the 6.5-mm Mannlicher-Carcano assassination rifle, serial no. C2766, and 6.5-mm Western Cartridge Company, lot WCC 6000, Mannlicher-Carcano ball ammunition to reproduce the conditions occurring at the time of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on 22 November 1963. The results indicated that the wounds sustained by the President and by Governor Connally, including the massive head wound of the President, could be produced by the above type of bullet and rifle." -- From the Edgewood Arsensal Report, Page 3

When was it ever established that LHO had a rifle? There certainly has been no proof that he ever owned a Man-Carc rifle. When are the nutters gonna quit jumping to conclusions without proof? You did notice that the Edgewood report didn't associate it with LHO.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[Kenneth Drew]

So is your opinion, Oswald used different types of ammunition in his rifle? One bullet which travelled unscathed through JFK back throat, Connally's back, chest, wrist and thigh, yet the bullet which hit The President in the head exploded inside his skull[?]

Why would I believe something dumb like that?

And why do CTers always ignore all the various tests done by different people over the years that prove that a Carcano bullet can and will behave just like the two bullets behaved that hit JFK's body on 11/22/63?

From John Lattimer's book.....

"This bullet [a 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano missile like CE399] can penetrate four feet of solid wood or three pine telephone poles side by side and come out looking completely undeformed. On the other hand, if it is fired into the thick bone of the back of a human skull, the jacket and core of the bullet will separate, releasing a myriad of additional fragments of many different sizes." -- Dr. John K. Lattimer; Page 277 of "Kennedy And Lincoln" [illustration from the book below]

"And why do CTers always ignore all the various tests done" maybe for the same reason nutters ignore all the evidence that LHO never owned a Man-Carc rifle, never held one, never fired one. etc, etc..............

[Kenneth Drew]

Greg,

The difference, as you should know quite well, is the SPEED at which CE399 was travelling when it struck Connally's wrist. Why do CTers constantly avoid the critical "Bullet Speed" issue when discussing the SBT?

Bullet 399 had been severely slowed down by the time it hit JBC's wrist and everybody knows it. And a bullet that has lost velocity has also lost its capability to become more severely deformed. Hence, CE399 remained intact. And so did the 6.5 Carcano bullet pictured below, which is a bullet that was fired into a human wrist at 1100 feet per second by Dr. Martin Fackler in 1992. It's in perfect shape--and this bullet broke a wrist bone....

ROFLMAO! surely you're kidding, right? This bullet can do all that damage and slow to a stop and still go through his wrist and into his thigh and come out pristine while leaving fragments in his thigh? LOL.....

Edited June 18, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[David Von Pein]

Prudhomme,

Go gripe to Sturdivan. I'm not the "wound ballistics expert/researcher". He is. And he said it on Page 118 of his book.

If you think you know more than a ballistics expert, great. CTers ALWAYS think they "know better" than every expert ever connected to this case. Big effing deal. What else is new? But I'll stick with Larry, thanks.

Edited June 18, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Robert Prudhomme]

Prudhomme,

Go gripe to Sturdivan. I'm not the "wound ballistics expert/researcher". He is. And he said it on Page 118 of his book.

If you think you know more than a ballistics expert, great. CTers ALWAYS think they "know better" than every expert ever connected to this case. Big effing deal. What else is new? But I'll stick with Larry, thanks.

David Von Pain has NO answers.

All he can do is parrot the ridiculous findings of his "experts" and "researchers".

How does it feel to have to get someone else to do all of your thinking or you?

[Glenn Nall]

why were multiple bullet fragments found in Connally's body that were "some as large as a matchhead, some larger than a matchhead"?

where did they come from?

and DON'T say the three people who saw them were a) mistaken, lying, c) otherwise wrong. Three people saying the same thing were not "wrong".

where did these fragments come from?

[Gary Murr]

Attached link to an article pertinent to this thread - a good read for those who have not seen it before, and a good re-read for those who may have forgotten. And as the article's author indicates, he did have occasion to "gripe" with Larry Sturdivan.

Link: http://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/Breakability/Breakability.htm

[Glenn Nall]

and really, "expert testimony" can be found to support anything. it's no surprise at all that there are people who will say that "this gun" or "this bullet" can do "this". hardly even matters, really.

the fact that anyone is still trying to verify the Warren Commission findings says all that needs to be said about this person's access to reality.

[Glenn Nall]

"for if any component, no matter how seemingly insignificant fails, the case for a single assassin evaporates"

bingo. makes you wonder why they even put all their eggs into that basket, doesn't it.

[Greg Burnham]

An associate of mine fired this 6.5 mm Mannlicher round into the radius bone of a cadaver. It struck the bone dead center, shattering it. The round was slowed after impact by cotton wadding where it was then retrieved.

Hi Greg

Do you know which model of Carcano he fired that bullet from?

91/38 if memory serves.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Prudhomme,

Go gripe to Sturdivan. I'm not the "wound ballistics expert/researcher". He is. And he said it on Page 118 of his book.

If you think you know more than a ballistics expert, great. CTers ALWAYS think they "know better" than every expert ever connected to this case. Big effing deal. What else is new? But I'll stick with Larry, thanks.

I love it when Von Pain runs out of arguments, has a hissy fit and stomps out of a thread.

[Glenn Nall]

they ran out of arguments years ago, just haven't accepted it yet.