Pat Speer Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 Confusing things even more, there's also this. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134&search=ladder_AND+roof#relPageId=496&tab=page The dispatcher has information that there is a concealed space by the ladder to the roof. So, there really is a ladder? If so why did Baker make out there were stairs? Was there a ladder and stairs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pat Speer said: So, there really is a ladder? If so, why did Baker make out there were stairs? Pat, Marrion Baker straightened that out in his Warren Commission testimony. David Josephs posted it earlier [repeated below]. That testimony makes it clear that the "Ladder to the roof" (as depicted in the diagram of the 7th floor) is, indeed, the "stairway" Baker referred to in his testimony. Baker merely used the word "stairway", but it was really a "ladder". No big deal there, IMO. And, actually, it wasn't really BAKER who called the ladder a "stairway"; it was BELIN. Baker merely agreed with Belin (see testimony below). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, I am going to hand you what the court reporter, what the Commission reporter, has marked as Exhibit 507 which purports to be a diagram of the seventh floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and on that diagram you will see at the top the marks of two elevators and then, what looks to be the south, a stairway marked "Ladder to the roof."Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not this stairway marked "Ladder to the roof" is the stairway that you took to go to the roof?Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; it would be. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited October 15, 2017 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 Can you show me where this ladder comes out on the roof, David? In the aerial views of the roof, there doesn't appear to be an opening where there would have to have been an opening. I'm still trying to figure this all out, but it is nothing if not messy. Baker and Truly say they took the stairs to the roof. The northwest corner of the roof of the building has an L shape which would appear to be a continuation of the staircase to the roof. And yet the diagram for the 7th floor makes out that these stairs are blocked off and that the only way to the roof is a ladder 20 feet or so away from these stairs. Now, we know this diagram is incomplete in that it doesn't make note of the cockloft--an attic between the seventh floor and the roof. And we know from the story posted by Robin that this attic was incredibly dark--so dark that the DPD called in the fire department to bring in some lights. And we know from this story as well that they took stairs up to the cockloft, and that some unidentified person climbed up the ladder in the middle of all this--and almost got his head shot off. So, something is just off. If you can find me an aerial shot in which an outlet onto the roof in the location of the stairs is made clear, I'll be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Very steep set of wooden steps leading to cockloft. ladder at the other end of the building with a hole in the ceiling above it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 By "hole in the ceiling above it" doe he mean "hole in the roof of the building? Or hole in the floor of the cockloft? In other words, did this ladder go through the cockloft on up? And, if so, how could anyone call it "stairs"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 The way i read it the hole in the ceiling was at the other end of the building to the cockloft. cockloft access steep wooden steps hole in ceiling access by ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 (edited) It appears that both entrances lead to the cockloft ( steps and ladder) Agent on ladder stuck his head up in the cockloft. Edited October 16, 2017 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: By "hole in the ceiling above it" doe he mean "hole in the roof of the building? Or hole in the floor of the cockloft? In other words, did this ladder go through the cockloft on up? And, if so, how could anyone call it "stairs"? I would say Hole in the floor of the cockloft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 7th floor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Looking at the image above, the loft could not have been very large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 10/13/2017 at 5:55 PM, Robin Unger said: The Jack White image appears to show the TSBD rooftop and the frame support for the Hertz sign. Aha! I initially thought the photo at right was facing east, when it's actually facing southeast. As a result, the shed the man is looking into is not a shed to the east of the white shed presumably over the elevator shaft, but to the south...which places it directly over where the ladder on the seventh floor diagram would come up to the roof. So, it seems possible that the ladder up to the cockloft really did continue on up to the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Murr Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Hey Pat : Tried to sent you a "private" message on this subject matter but was halted by a message indicating that you "cannot receive messages" What's up? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Thanks to Gary Murr for these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 On 10/19/2017 at 1:32 PM, Gary Murr said: Hey Pat : Tried to sent you a "private" message on this subject matter but was halted by a message indicating that you "cannot receive messages" What's up? Gary I'm not sure. Maybe my mailbox is full. But you can always reach me through my website, pat@patspeer.com. P.S. I hope to see you in Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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