Bill Miller

I don't know if Kellerman had 3 foot wide shoulders, but I do know that there is no reason to believe that his left shoulder was any less wider than his right shoulder. Anyone care to measure the two to see if they are the same??? The red arrow on the photo shows a sunspot on Kellerman's left shoulder ... and on each side of that sunspot I can see the dark outline of Kellerman's suitcoat. There are also numerous assassination films and photos of the motorcade as it passed through Dallas and nowhere in any of those images will one see a place where Kellerman sat his lunch or thermos (if he had those items with him to begin with). What I do see are people who continually look at poor quality images and then try to guess what it is they are looking at, thus it is not challenging IMO to interpret these images - unless of course one prefers to make the task challenging by using the poorer quality pixeled enlarged prints being presented in this thread. Bill Miller

Ed, you have just identified a sunspot on Kellerman's left shoulder as a thrmos. Bill Miller

Let's not forget that the limo is rotating away from Zapruder's position as it crosses Abe's field of view, thus even a stationary object inside the limo will rotate and appear to have its right side move forward in those frames. Bill Miller

I am not sure how scientific the above information is concerning how Mrs. Connally would or should have reacted to her husband being shot, but it is true according to the evidence that the Governor wasn't being shot at that particular time period. According to the statements the Connally's have given ... JFK's head exploded and bits of brain matter was instantly sprayed all over the occupants of the car. It was at that precise moment that the Connally's attempted to get their heads down as far as possible - the Governor rolled up and out of Nellie's lap and made a controlled stop just short of the seat and ducked his head down as far as he could go. And yes, the assassination films all show the limo braking at the moment the President's head exploded, thus Greer and Kellerman also show signs of being nudged forward. It is because of this that I believe Greer braked as a reaction to the startlement of the matter being pelted all over the inside of the limo and that it took him a moment to react and accelerate away. Below is Connally's reaction upon being violently pelted with brain matter as a result of the fatal shot to the President. Connally had said that he immediately knew what had happened and that the President had been fatally hit. As we look downward into the limo ... we can see Connally raise his right arm and begin to roll up and out of Nellie's lap. Connally's reaction appears to me to have been nothing more than self-preservation ... just as Nellie, Greer and Kellerman did in the immediate Zframes that followed. Bill Miller

Does not anyone bother to view all the evidence pertaining to what the Connally's have said and why??? Moorman's photograph shows Connally laying back onto Nellie's lap, which is what was meant when he spoke of the timing of the head shot. It was merely a figure of speech that Connally made quite clear in his November 1966 interview with Life Magazine. He said that Nellie reached out to him and pulled him back onto her lap which is exactly what the Zapruder film shows between Z270 and Z308. I feel sometimes when I read such post as Ed's that some think that Connally should have been laying with his head in Nellie's lap like a small child sucking his thumb while clinging to his mommy. In the Movie "JFK" .... Senator Long's character used a term called 'picking pepper out of nat xxxx', it is just that sort of thing that seems to be happening here over the phrase Connally used when talking about his wife pulling him down into her lap. Bill Miller

The above question shoud be addressed for as most anyone should know by now, dgh: why Thank You for telling me what I "know" and think, quite generous, bit presumptive, but generous none-the-less Gary believes there WAS a conspiracy in the murder of America's 35th President, thus the Musuem DOES NOT carry books that they only agree with. If this were the case, then that would mean that only books claiming a conspiracy in JFK's asassination would be sold there and this simply is not the case. dgh: english please.... Bill Miller The words I had written above WERE in English, however, one must have at least an average understanding of the English language to even begin to know what I meant. Bill Miller

The above question shoud be addressed for as most anyone should know by now, Gary believes there WAS a conspiracy in the murder of America's 35th President, thus the Musuem DOES NOT carry books that they only agree with. If this were the case, then that would mean that only books claiming a conspiracy in JFK's asassination would be sold there and this simply is not the case. Bill Miller

I recall the plaza's south pasture being resodded in the past ... maybe this represents the work that was done. Bill Miller

It's quite simple really .... the closer the limo is to Zapruder while moving left to right - the distance it traveled will be more noticeable than if the limo traveled the same speed, but was moving away from the camera. Another example might be ... a plane flying by one's position will appear to cover a great amout of space in a very short time span, but if the plane is more out in front of you and moving away - it will appear to hardly be moving. Bill Miller

Willis and Betzner's photos and some post assassination film images. Bill Miller

Jack, the reason for Gordon Arnold looking taller is mainly because he was much closer to Moorman than the Badge Man, thus he would look taller as Moorman viewed him at an uphill angle over the wall. In this instance we can use the concrete wall for the horizon line, which Arnold was closer to the wall than Badge Man, thus Gordon will appear much taller even if both men had been the exact same height. It is also worth noting that Arnold told Earl Golz that he stood on a mound/high spot on the ground which also would effect his height appearence, but not as much as the reason I just gave in the opening of this response. Bill Miller

Mark, I will not hesitate to call Jack out on a bogus claim because of a poorly researched idea, so do not take it personally when I tell you that you do not know what you are talking about in this instance. I replicated Badge Man by using 6' 3" tall Tony Cummings. Tony stood on the bottom support board of the stockade fence which isn't a mere 6 to 8 " off the ground. Because Moorman was looking uphill at the knoll, the further back from the fence you stand ... the further you sink over the horizon line created by the fence against the background. This means that if a 6' 3" man was two feet behind the fence, then he'd have to be elevated higher than Tony was to achieve the same height appearence from where Moorman stood. So the fact is ... your "midget" response tells me that you are attempting to debate a possibility that you have never spent any effort gathering the needed information to intelligently discuss the matter. In this particular instance, depending on how far behind the fence Jack believes Badge Man to be and depending on Badge Man's actual height which no one really knows - Jack is correct on at least that part of the possibilities of Badge Man's existence. Bill Miller Jack, how difficult would it be for you to simply put a block on those email addresses that are doing this, then it doesn't happen again unless they keep changing email addresses and I doubt that anyone would find that worth all the trouble. Bill Miller

Does tihs sound like an innocent mistake .... Jack said that Moorman and Hill were in the street ... Jack went so far as to post a carefully edited clip of Jean Hill saying, "I stepped into the street", but Jack left out Jean saying that she had gotten back out of the street BEFORE THE FIRST SHOT HAD BEEN FIRED. Mark Oakes, JFK assassination researhcer who sells autographed Moorman prints asked Mary what she thought about White's "in the street claim" about her and Mary said, "The whole thing is just silly". Then there is Altgens #6 which Jack says is a genuine image "and can be used for comparisons with the official story depicted by Zapruder" ..... and that photo taken after JFK and Connally had been shot and just seconds before the fatal shot to JFK shows both Moorman and Hill to be standing EXACTLY WHERE THE ZAPRUDER FILM SHOWS THESE WOMEN TO BE. You can also add the fact that Moorman's 54" camera lens height is looking over the top of the 58" motorcyles windshield in relation to the ground and that Mary Moorman's photo (showing two people on the pedestal) was filmed for TV not 30 to 35 minutes after the shooting and while still in Mary's possession proves beyond all doubt that White and Fetzer were way off base and yet they continue to push a proven lie to this day. One can hardly call this an innocent mistake that is still going on all these years later! Bill Miller

I think that many assassination images could be validated by authenticating a samller number of photos and films that support the same visual information. For instance, the photo Josiah posted of Moorman's photo as seen on the afternoon of the assasination debunks Jack's calim that Zapruder and Sitzman were added to all the asassination films and photos. Unless Jack can show how Moorman's photo was altered in that short period, then at least one alteration claim is dead. Bill Miller

Shanet, even I found the Backyard photos interesting, but when you respond like you did to Craig in such a generic tempermental way - it usually tells the viewers that you really cannot explain why you believe something is correct and the stupid-assed answer was a type of distraction from that point. Bill Miller

Craig, the original photo was sharp ... at least when you talk to people who know its history. By the time Mary's photo was being looked at in 1978 - the photo's clarity was badly degraded. The film Mary used didn't show grain, but it is possible that the copy print used had grain, but the problem is that there are parts of the photo in those prints that show little grain and grain on film should be uniform - correct? If the latter is true, then what you think is grain may not be grain at all. The drum scan was made from a copy negative that was shot out of focus, which means that it is not a good source for knowing what was seen on those original UPI prints made on the afternoon of the assassination. I have worked with many assassination images and in all my experiences, I have been able to show that what someone thought was a person was never really there, while I have never been able to create an image of an individual out of nothing. Bill Miller

Charlie, your theory seems to be as made up as the SBT was. How would altering the Zfilm keep one from seeing the gunman when the camera was trained on the immediate area of the limo??? I might also add that professional experts have viewed the film and their experience and expertise state that the actions seen on the film is real and what they would expect to see, thus what expertise can you offer to refute their conclusions??? Bill Miller

Craig, your point on what the cause of the alleged badge or police patch may or may not be correct, but the face and head shape is what sells me on the image in combination with Gordon Arnold's statements. When I look at the Badge Man's face ... I see the side of his face from which the sun would be on to be lighter than the side facing away from the sun, thus I do not believe his appearence to be part of the tree foilage. So whille I believe you certainly have an argument as to whether this individual wore a badge or police patch ... I disagree that his complete image is nothing more than lint, dust, and shadows. In asking Gary Mack for what he recalls pertaining to these images ... "In 1966/1967, Josiah Thompson and Harold Weisberg separately received several 8x10 prints of the Moorman photo from United Press International (not Wide World Photos). Groden made slide blowups from one of Thompson's prints and some included the Badge Man area. He sent a slide to me, I noticed Badge Man, and gave the slide to Jack to see what he could do to improve the image. Later, I borrowed Thompson's 8x10 print and Jack made blowups from that, too. I have seen both Groden's and Jack's Badge Man images - and Jack's are better. " Bill Miller

I understand why Craig says that the Badge Man image is a product of multigenerational reproductions, but sometimes that is not always the case. In 1978, and before all the Badge Man work was done, Groden tells me that Jimmy Carter's sister was one of the first people to see the Badge Man in a good first generation Moorman print. B&W photographs are very limited in color tone, thus making out shapes can be more difficult compared to using color photos. However, we still have to consider Gordon Arnold's statements regarding the shot that came over his left shoulder at a time Moorman would have taken her photograph. Bill Miller

From where I come from .... when someone works for their Daddy, we call it a "lifetime allowance". Bill Miller

I think the key is in this sentence that Groden offered .... "The copies that I have printed did not come from Jack, and the image is even clearer than his." So it appears that Groden has said that the original image and/or first generation copies thereof from which the prints were made was even clearer than Jack's image. As far as facial detail - Zapruder, Sitzman and the guys on the steps were in sunlight which addes some glare to their faces, but Badge Man was in partial shade which preserved more detail of his head and face. And once again .... I have not seen the men on the steps and/or Zapruder and Sitzman from the print Badge Man came from and it is because I have not seen the entire print - I cannot compare Badge Man from one print to Zapruder or anyone else from a diferent lesser quality print. Bill Miller

Mark, you should only reference what YOU can or cannot see. Some people are not very good at all when it comes to photo interpretation and others don't know the facts of the case. As I said before, which you seem to ignore by not acknowledging that you even read it, is that Gordon Arnold said a shot came over his LEFT shoulder at a time when Moorman took her photograph, thus someone with a gun was in that location. If it is your contention that Gordon Arnold lied, then you have to explain how he got details correct when telling his family and friends of his experience that only someone who was actually there would have known. I see the Badge Man. I also see Gordon Arnold. Bill Miller One proof is the very fine detail of Badgeman, who is in shadow, and the very poor detail of Zapruder/Sitzman, who are IN FULL SUNLIGHT. The image of Badgeman is very small compared to the image of Zapruder. At larger size and IN SUNLIGHT, the Z/S image SHOULD BE SUPERIOR TO THE BADGEMAN IMAGE. Jack Jack, am I to understand correctly that the pedestal image you posted (#24) was from the same Moorman print the Badge Man is seen in? Bill Miller I know the origin of the Badgeman image: A Groden slide from a Thompson print. I am not sure of the Zapruder image, but think it likely is the Thompson #1 print loaned to Gary Mack by Josiah Thompson; I used the best image I could find in my computer...but I have hundreds of Moorman images. But the Badgeman image is seen most clearly in the Thompson #1 print. Jack Thanks for the clarification, Jack. Your remarks made it appear that Zapruder and Sitzman should be seen as clearly as the Badge Man, but the difference IMO lies in the fact that the two sets of images are not taken from the same photograph print. One print is obviously of much better quality, thus it is not fair to compare the Badge Man image from a good print to the pedestal images from a lesser quality print. Bill Miller About the Badge Man print ... Robert Groden: "The Badge Man image in the Moorman photograph is from a first generation print obtained directly from Wide World Photos somewhere around 1965. It was made from an original first generation copy negative and is NOT multigenerational at all. Both Josiah Thompson and Harold Weisberg obtained prints of this quality as well. Bill, I don't know who made this comment, but he is wrong The copies that I have printed did not come from Jack, and the image is even clearer than his."

One proof is the very fine detail of Badgeman, who is in shadow, and the very poor detail of Zapruder/Sitzman, who are IN FULL SUNLIGHT. The image of Badgeman is very small compared to the image of Zapruder. At larger size and IN SUNLIGHT, the Z/S image SHOULD BE SUPERIOR TO THE BADGEMAN IMAGE. Jack Jack, am I to understand correctly that the pedestal image you posted (#24) was from the same Moorman print the Badge Man is seen in? Bill Miller

As Jack made quite clear ... Badge Man is not on the hood of any car. Bill Miller