Bill Miller

I think we are safe from Gary Mack posting as David Healy. I would also like to say that the only side I am on (what ever that is supposed to mean) is the side of being thorough in my research so to be as accurate as possible. As far as the pyracantha bush goes ... what is so mysterious about seeing a bush or a tree from one angle and seeing that its shape may be different than when seen from another angle. Then one will see that the bush wasn't as trimmed as the distant blurry images make it appear. Once again Jack is wrong because he chose to rely on poor quality images. I would also recommend people looking at good clear photos for details of the branches on the pyracantha bush before just using distant blurred ones to draw conclusions from. Bill Miller

Try scaling the images correctly before doing any comparison studies. Bill Miller

Well, I personally think that when Gary Mack finally starts making claims about 'JFK sitting upright in the limo as the limo enters the underpass' or starts calling tree trunks 'people standing up in the limo' by using poor blurry images, then Gary will stop getting so much attention. Until then he will probably be considered a good source for information concerning the JFK assassination. Bill Miller

Yeh right, Jack ... you're saying that I should use a set of frames that are not as clear as the frame I posted which clearly showed a small tree trunk that you were claiming to be someone standing up in the limo .... If it is all the same to you, I'd rather use the clearer frames so I don't make the same ridiculous errors that you do. The difference in quality can be seen below. I will leave the researcher to decide which image choice is the most reliable. Billl Miller

Jack, you have been told countless times that MPI misnumbered their Zapruder frames. The frame numbering was done by MPI - not me! Now what are you trying to pull??? Is it the clarity that bothers you! Bill Miller

I think you'll find it in Gary Mack's email box. Other than that, Andy, like me, probably didn't feel that it warranted "NOTICE". Maybe he thinks you have bigger problems to focus on like how a pyracantha bush can show one shape from one angle, but a different one from another. Bill Miller

Jack, you are looking at a small tree trunk that is between the car and the camera. Bill

Like your photo interpretations, Jack ... you don't know what you are talking about. I do and will continue to solicit information from Gary Mack whether it be in relation to topics on this forum or Lancer. BTW, I believe that Gary Mack's account is no longer suspended. Also, you always talk about 'provocateurs' ... what exactly was the purpose of you starting such a ridiculous thread such as thie one? Bill Miller

Maybe someone else can post something that better explains what on earth you are talking about. So is it your position that neither JFK or Connally was sitting up when the limo entered the underpass or is it your position that you agree with Jack and that it is Kennedy who sat up and his hair has turned gray? "Heaved up" doesn't mean Connally puked up his breakfast ... it is Nellie's way of saying the Governor rose up in a sudden burst or effort. And without looking it up - I believe Johnson was being smashed by a SS agent sitting atop of him. Hey ... this can be your claim to fame by saying the 'Miller photo' was altered to only make it appear that Connally was sitting up. Bill Miller

Nellie: "...... the President whom I felt very sure was dead, and just when I thought I could sit and wait no longer, John just sort of heaved himself up." Not only did Nellie say her husband heaved himself up after the kill shot to JFK, but unless you clowns are going to now say that the Miller photo is altered to show Connally sitting up in the car ... its a dead issue. Nowhere in Nellie's brief testimony did anyone ever ask her to give a play by play recall for the trip to Parkland and under the circumstances - who in their right mind would think she could give such a detailed statement. Even Jackie didn't remember climbing onto the back of the limo, but plenty of witnesses saw it and films and photographs showed it. Bill Miller

Jack, Nellie said that when she saw her husband get shot that she only thought he was dead at that instant. Nellie said that she pulled her husband towards her lap and leaned over him ... all this before she said the thrird shot was fired. Then Nellie went on to say things like .... "Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us ....... John said nothing. I said only to him from the time I saw one little movement, that maybe he is still alive, and, I kept whispering to him, "Be still, it is going to be all right, be still, it is going to be all right."" "John was still in my lap, but I knew he was alive and people were swarming all around the car." Then after the third shot and Nellie knew JFK was dead, she had this to say about what her husband did next ... "the President whom I felt very sure was dead, and just when I thought I could sit and wait no longer, John just sort of heaved himself up."

I bet if we looked hard enough we could find a violation or two in post 8 of this thread, but I bet the poster will not be banned. I also know that Mack was not the first person to know about the potential hacking of the Ed Forum. Denis Morissette posted about his software detecting a virus a week before Mack contacted the Ed Forum adminstrators. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspir...622dd936d1bfc2e Bill Miller

David, you and I have one thing in common ... neither one of us knows what you are talking about! Again, I am trying to follow the logic of these responses and when someone like yourself who questions the autopsy photos because of what the witnesses said about JFK's rear head wound ... only to then do the opposite on another manner ... it makes you appear to flip flop depending on what ever position you are trying to make. Bill Miller

David, your knowledge of the photographical record is really poor. Around Z175, one can see Connally lean back into Nellie's lap because she reached out and pulled him towards her. Nellie had testified to this. Immediately after the head shot - Connally raised up and rolled his body forward. He sat up as the car went into the underpass. In the photo showing Clint Hill on the back of the limo getting his right leg into position, the Connally's are rising up in the car. By the time Miller took his photo, Governor Connally is sitting up again. Jack marked his Zapruder illustration with a line going to Connally's head while claiming it to be JFK. (see post 150 of this thread) You do read the post before attempting to discuss them - don't you? Bill Miller POSTED BY JACK WHITE:

Jack, so it never dawned on you that the gray haired individual you call JFK sitting upright in the limo as it enters the underpass in the Zfilm was John Connally. Does the Miller photo help you see your error? And if that is JFK sitting up in the limo, then what is Jackie doing ... looking for her cigarettes??? Bill Miller

David, are you aware that you just took the opposite position you have on the autopsy photos when put up against the word of the witnesses who saw the rear head wound to JFK. You may wish to just respond when you actually have something to say rather than responding just to be saying something. Bill Miller

David, this time I agree with you. In fact, most of us pray that we never reach the level of quality Jack has been posting in recent years for that would mean that we are on our way to becoming as laughing stock, as well. Bill Miller

Nice job with the sizing of the scan. It would be great to see the articles pages scanned with such quality and size. Bill Miller

http://cgi.ebay.com/Warren-Commission-Repo...1QQcmdZViewItem

Your ability to comprehend what is written is lacking. I have said the following several times throughout this thread and I have taken the liberty to copy and paste it here ... Bill Miller: "The same was done to Altgens photo and I had never heard it pointed out until only a couple of years ago. I just assumed that most everyone who has looked into the subject had discovered that it was a common practice by editors of the press, thus it had nothing to do with the original photo. It appears that some folks cannot comprehend the difference." "The object in the photo may have been processed in a way that makes it appear to be retouched and it was Miller who put the word out that it was probably JFK's foot" "It was not uncommon for photos to be dodged in places. I offered the Altgens photo as seen in 'Four dark Days" to show this. I have seen another version of Altgens photo where there is no arm holding the rear view mirror because someone erased it. Why? Only the art department of those publications can answer that question IMO. I am however, positive that it wasn't done to mislead anyone because these publications still knew that there was an 'original photo' out there showing the real deal." "It was quite common for 'dodging' to be done to photographs and Jack is very aware of this. In some cases it gives off a cartoonish/artistic appearence. I supplied an Altgens 6 example showing this same thing. But these things that were done to copy prints doesn't have anything to do with what is seen on the original photos." "It was not uncommon for press agencies/newspapers to attempt to better an area on a photograph by 'dodging' the image. I believe that Bob Jackson's photo of Ruby shooting Oswald was also dodged in order to make Ruby's gun easier to see." Craig Lamson: "Finally you are not "on to something here". Publications have altered images for decades. So what? If the original is altered thats a different matter but the best I can see that not the issue here...unless you subscribe the Jacks every photo is altered foolishness." "As to the press changing the photo..sure they did...it appears they retouched the image beyond simple dodging. Not unusual at the time for a publication to retouch images so they would reproduce on crappy paper and on web printing presses. Many times from even worse quality wire photo originals." Clint Hill: "Yes, sir. I had my legs--I had my body above the rear seat, and my legs hooked down into the rear seat, one foot outside the car." WCH V. II 140/141

Many of the larger libraries have a collection of the major magazines ... even TV Guide. You can probably call one and inquire about it. Bill Miller

I recall making a post that pointed out that if that was JFK's hand, then his arm has to be bent at the elbow to get that steep angle. That would make his arm as long, if not longer, than his legs. I never heard you address that point, but if one wishes to believe it is JFK's hand, then I guess an arm can be as long as you wish it to be. The same was done to Altgens photo and I had never heard it pointed out until only a couple of years ago. I just assumed that most everyone who has looked into the subject had discovered that it was a common practice by editors of the press, thus it had nothing to do with the original photo. It appears that some folks cannot comprehend the difference. Bill Miller

I am currently in the mountains of British Columbia, but if I can get someone to take my photo - I'll be happy to show you how even an out of shape 48 year old male riddled with arthritis can do it quite easily. And by the way, Hill's hips are not turned to the right, but rather the camera in the Miller photo is ahead of the limo and that is why we see so much of his right front. Look at the photo of Hill taken just prior to his getting his leg into place ... his hips and shoulders are already past being squared up with the back seat. The object in the photo may have been processed in a way that makes it appear to be retouched and it was Miller who put the word out that it was probably JFK's foot ... and as far as I know, Miller had never suggested it was JFK's hand when looking at his original photo. I thouht that I posted the same photo and pointed out all the other white areas on Hill's clothing that reflected sunlight. Hill's suit was made of cloth just as his socks and neither had white spots on them in reality, but they had the sun shining on those particular areas and on film it makes the clothing look white in appearence. Adjust the exposure of the negative when making a print and Hill can look like he had bleach spilled all over his clothing and shoes. Bill Miller

Ah BS! It is not that hard to do and whether you can do it or not is not as important as Clint Hill being able to do it. And if you couldn't do it, did you ask someone else nearby you to try it? I have never seen so much time wasted over stupid stuff that should have been settled long ago by applying a little common sense and a minute bit of effort. As riddled with arthritis from chemotherapy as I am - i just got up and walked over to an armchair and did just what Hill is seen doing in Miller's photo. If I see you in Dallas again ... I will be happy to take less than three seconds and show you how its done. By the way, the knee isn't rotated - its the hip. Bill Miller Jack - your post number 128 and 129 are so ridiculous that I can only say that the only thing you have done is show why you shouldn't even be looking at this stuff. Below is a rough example of how Hill got his foot over the side of the limo ... Hill took that posture so he could use his left hand and right foot for leverage to keep from losing his balance and to stay centered over the Presidential couple as the limo made high speed turns and manuevers as it raced to the Hospital. Bill Miller

I, for one, would be most interested in seeing the alleged 'foul mouthed' emails. If they were as you say, then I certainly understand your position. It just seemed ridiculous to hear things like '"Ed forum suspends guy who never posted' or 'Posting privileges denied non-poster'. Bill