William Plumlee

Thanks for the pictures. In your first picture of the south knoll I believe a south knoll shooter was located at the south side end of the overpass.

We were near the steps up by the forked tree at the time of the shots. (left of second picture) If you notice in your first photo of the south knoll in the center of picture that would be directly inline with the 6th floor shooter. In my view a perfect place for a sniper. (winged out wedge next to tall pillar)

Now its very late for me. I have a cell connection and my laptop with me, but I must clear out of this position and location...been here to long and Mexico is not a very safe place to linger on a lap top.. Take care and I do hope some will really look at the information which is coming down the pike lately and study the pictures in place of blind speculations. Thanks again Tosh

JVB has scads of charming stories about her "romance" with LHO...but NONE OF THEM ARE DOCUMENTED.

Her stories about Carlos Marcello getting involved in the "two month relationship" is patently absurd and

seems to be an attempt to paint the old reliable MAFIA DID IT canard.

Jim...get her FULL manuscript and check it out against known facts before committing additional involvement.

When I confronted her on the internet about which Oswald she knew, HARVEY OR LEE, she became incoherent

and nasty...saying there WAS ONLY ONE OSWALD. This sealed it for me...since I know there were two LHOs.

Her story of the midnight call from the laundromat talking about the impending assassination was ridiculous,

and opens her to charges of ACCESSORY BEFORE THE FACT.

Jack

Her story on The Men Who Killed Kennedy was that Clay Shaw arranged the rooms for her trysts with Lee, not Carlos Marcello...

I have watched this unfold for years. I believe that she has had some information that some want covered. Although I can not vouch for all that she has said, I do know how some of these matters work and how they are put into motion. My main thought is why so much flak over someone and why the "Theys" out there go to so much trouble to silence her, slander her and misquote various things she has said? (or take them out of context or miss read the meanings thereof)

I know what character assassination is all about. And sometimes it is used to cover the most tinny bit of truth which could expose a very big cover-up. In the early days the anonymous THEY would just kill you on the spot or arrange some little accident. However, as time marched on and the information and accusations became so much in the public eye, the M.O. shifted to character assassination and financial ruin via IRS and credit ratings, and open slander. I believe she is a victim of all of those tactics and perhaps more. Perhaps in some cases she may embellish and to some extent sensationalize, but I do not think it was for ego or self gratification. I think it was perhaps for survival. I do know that sometimes its hard to go back in time and get it all right the first time; and get it past the gatekeepers and those who already have preconceived ideas as to how they want thing to be in someone else's life.

With all that said, I toss my hat into the fray in behalf of her associations and the mix of INTEL activities she became thrust into in her early years. In her behalf I see the conspiracy continuing and she has every right to be paranoid and in a state of fear. I wish her the best. This does not mean I buy the story as it is written 100 percent. But I believe where there is smoke there could be a smoldering fire. There is to much secrecy behind this "story". In the past to much leading a young girl in matters of which she had no control. I wish her the best. Tosh

With regards to the guy with gun. Couldn't it be tree trunk mirrored in shadow?

Yes John. It could be just about anything. However, that is speculation as well as it is speculations to say its a person with a gun, or two people in the shadows near the forked tree, or a hole in a windshield, or a man with crooked leg and a tilted head. That is why I feel that with the new technology of today these photos that are speculated upon should be put to the test and determined if they are in fact , guns, people, dogs, fakes, brushed out, altered, holes, etc. I feel the Federal government should bend over backwards in this endeavor to aid in establishing the truth behind these photos, by using the FBI Crime Lab, or whatever means that is required to establish the facts. (I know Fat Chance; Right?)

The object is not to speculate post after post.., thread after thread, but to reach some kind of conclusion which would establish FACTS. I believe new technology with the aid of preponderance of evidence would help in reaching those conclusions and in doing prove beyond a shadow of doubt, CONSPIRACY. Then we can go from there and perhaps get the information that would re-open this murder case and lead to those who may still be alive before they are killed or die of old age..

Tosh.

The Cancellare photo posted by Bernice comes from my image galleries.

I purchased it from Corbis for $200.00

So as you see, some of us ARE actually making an effort TO TRY AND HELP.

Some of your comments like ( nobody cares anyway etc: ) are not helping your cause.

Robin.

Robin: Please read what I have said and how I said it and why I said it. Sometimes IMO people do not read or hear what is really said.. Sorry friend your way of key on what I feel or meant: Peter Lemkin spent hundreds and thousands of dollars over 15 years ago in getting that picture and trying to get the so called experts to even look at it. It cost him dearly, financially as well as mentally. Damn near cost him his life... as well as a few others... We have all paid some dues in this damn mess. As to a cause, "I have no stinking cause". I am not an assassination buff, nor a conspiracy theorist. I was a player in the event and only want to help for the sake of history and the truth of things. FWIW. Robin I do thank you for your interest and appreciate what you are trying to accomplish.,.. but your Dead wrong on my motives. I thought I cleared that up in another post of a few days ago. But guess not. You can take what I have to say, or leave it. Its your choice and I will always respect your choice. That is what being an American is all about. Thanks again..., your friend, Tosh

P.S "... OH WELL... WHAT THU HELL. WHO CARES? RIGHT? ..".

( not quoted correct or interrupted correct: "...Some of your comments like ( nobody cares anyway etc: ) are not helping your cause.

Robin it was a question; RIGHT ? I take it you care and thats a good thing.

Tosh,

Do you recall what time it was when the Abort Team reassembled back at the plane?

Cliff not sure from my memory, but I think it was between 1 and 2pm. We waited for awhile for others but soon left after that. I can't remember for sure, however I think its on the record somewhere and has been posted on this forum a few years back... Perhaps Peter Lemkin might recall what I told him and Jim back in 1990.

Tosh, do you recall how soon you were aware of the Abort Team's attitude of disappointment?

Did you read their disappointment immediately, or did you gather than impression more slowly

during the flight back?

At first it was because of what Sergio said. " Oh xxxx we F'ed UP!" "... we have to get the F... out of here!" Not much was said by the driver or Sergio or me as we sped back to the safe house near Redbird (Sergio was muddy and wet from sliding down the embankment. We stopped at the Sportatorum where Sergio got a clean set of pants... I know this is strange in itself, but that is what happened. The Sportatorum had been used before by some of the Dallas Cubans who had ties with Omega-7 and Alpha-66 and the Beckley bunch in Oak Cliff)

At the airport while waiting for others, everybody stayed to themselves, and not much was said about the events of the morning. It was after we were airborne that I thought about things. I finally starting settling down. My thoughts: Nobody could look at each other. When you caught their eye they just looked away. It was a very sad and quite moment. It remained that way for most of the trip. I knew better than to ask any questions. It was not my place. Sergio stayed to himself at the back of the aircraft and did not talk to anyone. If they were a hit team, I did think they would have been a little more jubilant.

It was perhaps years later, that I thought back when asked or told I had flown the attack team in to kill the President. I took exception with that and each time it pissed me off. I thought hard about it for a lot of years. However, it was the impressions I had received that day, on the way out, that cause me to believe that they were indeed an abort team. Perhaps Abort was or is not the right term, but that is the term used during that timeline. All it really means is that there was foreknowledge about the assassination to be carried out and that to me spells, conspiracy. The minute details of the who's and why's, I would not know. I was nowhere near that level of planning in those years. I was just a pilot who was asked by a friend to go along and see the President and act as his spotter. And that is about all I can say about that.

Tosh,

Do you recall what time it was when the Abort Team reassembled back at the plane?

Cliff not sure from my memory, but I think it was between 1 and 2pm. We waited for awhile for others but soon left after that. I can't remember for sure, however I think its on the record somewhere and has been posted on this forum a few years back... Perhaps Peter Lemkin might recall what I told him and Jim back in 1990.

Lee Forman Cancellare 1 ( Ebay Purchase )

http://newimages.fotopic.net/?iid=yl13gd&a...&quality=70

We are drifting off the area . The picture posted has been cropped and the forked tree area has been cut out of the cancellare photo. The area I have always pointed out is the left side of the COMPLETE photo. Bernice posted the whole picture awhile back. (post#3; this thread) And Too, its been posted many times, but each time we seem to drift off to areas of which I have never said we were in at the time of the shots.. The area is to the left and above of the photographer, directly above the man in the media between Elm and Main, in the picture; above the top of the car on Commerce Street.

Hi Tosh,

I'm not much of a Jack White but I've used Photoshop to lighten two squares in this image where there appear to be people. One looks like a man with a hat carrying something towards the front of the lot and the other is towards the back of the lot and to the left.

You'll have to zoom in in order to see them. Hopefully you can see them too, or maybe I'm seeing things.

History repeats. That "gunman" "image" was discovered more than 20 years ago by a

researcher whose name escapes me at the moment. I did an article for Penn's TCI

relating to it. All issues of TCI are available at the Mary Ferrell website.

Jack

Yes Jack. I remember it was you who did some work in that area long before Tom Wilson came on the scene. Its been an on going debate for years now. Twenty years has past and too, 20 years of new technology has came forth. In Fact there has been more technology developed in the past ten years in photography and other matters pertaining to the moon landings and light beams and the likes. Perhaps we should go back and take another fresh look at some of the matters we stated as Facts some years ago. Might do both of us some good. Right? Anyway, thanks for pointing that information out. I'm sure a new generation appreciates your work. I know I do. Tosh

Hi Tosh,

I'm not much of a Jack White but I've used Photoshop to lighten two squares in this image where there appear to be people. One looks like a man with a hat carrying something towards the front of the lot and the other is towards the back of the lot and to the left.

You'll have to zoom in in order to see them. Hopefully you can see them too, or maybe I'm seeing things.

Thanks Bill. I know this is primitive in relationship to the new technology available, but in my view I feel this photo needs further scrutiny #1 in the two areas you have pointed out. #2 Now, if you have time move to the area to the left of the Cancellare photo to the shadow of the "Fork" in that tree above the photographer and the top of the car, (to the right of the steps). The location is marked in other photo postings and threads. That area is the area where we were standing at about the time of the shots.

I appreciate your reply and the work you have done. I know this will open up another photo debate on what is there and what is not there and that will go on and on; perhaps, missing the point and meat of what it really means if two people were at that location-- especially, if one who is still alive says he was there on a "MISSION" ( leave Abort out if you like) and ask WHY were those two people there, and they did not know about the other two people down to their left?... if indeed there were two people there. New technology should be able to certify all these people which would raise many more questions as to why all of them were there at the time of the shots. I am aware that studying this will only open up many post, perhaps with no substance, and only more speculations as to two people there or not there and the real issue will again in time be "side-stepped", and go nowhere. (Seems to be the format these days)

Thanks again Bill I appreciate your time and effort. Tosh

Sorry duplicate post.

Its not about JFK..., but the MO is the same are almost the same as to cover-ups old and new... Article appears tomorrow March 03, 2010

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/03/03/fo...-marine-murder/

ANYONE CARE TO CRITIQUE THAT DAMN THING.... OR IS IT TO MUCH OF A DELICATE MATTER? HAS IT BEEN DOCTORED OR BRUSHED OUT?

OH WELL... WHAT THU HELL. WHO CARES? RIGHT?

It's me again. The forked tree seems like there's someone there, but an expert would have to work on it. I cannot. I will say on Google Earth Street View I did not see a forked tree on the South Knoll, which doesn't prove anything. Many decades have passed. The South Knoll is very shady. But unless someone shot from the bridge, I can't see how Kennedy could be shot from that angle.

Wish I could help more.

Kathy C

HI TOSH BACK FROM THE BORDER VWARS FOR A BIT, I HOPE...

ME THINKS WITHOUT THE PHOTO POSTED PERHAPS IT CANNOT BE CRITIQUED ALSO ANOTHER CROP, SHOWING SHADOW OF FORK IN TREE I HOPE, EXCUSE CAPS PLEASE...B

Thanks Bernice: I am in Las Cruces for the night and back over tomorrow. We film at 7A.M. and then go to Palomas, Mexico about fifty miles west of Juarez and from there to Antelope Wells, New Mexico with the Border Patrol and ICE.. People are being murdered left and right down here... not much about it in the mainstream media in the U.S. (300 so far in Juarez alone this year and its only March; 2600 last year in Juarez and over 16000 in three years through out Mexico. Its called "Border Wars".)

Thanks for the picture post. The forked tree and its shadow shows up rather well. The shadow of the fork tree in the second photo are not legs. I think you posted a picture I had drawn for Benard Finisterwald in 1981, which showed were Sergio and I were standing in the shadows of the fork tree. As you know this photo is a curse to me. I have asked and begged the Senate, the Congress, the FBI, the Secret Service., and others for years, to do work on that photo. Instead of doing the work they tell me nothing is there and have asked me to forget it. Tom Wilson, did look at it but that too went nowhere after about ten years or so. Jack White, I believed glanced it over but did not see anything. I was told I was not being, "patient enough".. "that it takes time..., and money" " and you have to have trust". This is my last shot. As you can see there is not much interest in the south side of the Plaza... its been thoroughly contaminated over the years by the experts.

You take care and thanks for all the good work you have done over the years. Tosh

ANYONE CARE TO CRITIQUE THAT DAMN THING.... OR IS IT TO MUCH OF A DELICATE MATTER? HAS IT BEEN DOCTORED OR BRUSHED OUT?

OH WELL... WHAT THU HELL. WHO CARES? RIGHT?

It's me again. The forked tree seems like there's someone there, but an expert would have to work on it. I cannot. I will say on Google Earth Street View I did not see a forked tree on the South Knoll, which doesn't prove anything. Many decades have passed. The South Knoll is very shady. But unless someone shot from the bridge, I can't see how Kennedy could be shot from that angle.

Wish I could help more.

Hey! You Again. You've helped a lot... and thanks for your help. I have asked for years for someone to take a close look and do a comprehensive analyst on that area. The tree with the forked branches was there a couple years ago. It was much bigger then. I don't think they would have cut it down. Have you been to the Plaza?

"....But unless someone shot from the bridge, I can't see how Kennedy could be shot from that angle...".

Perhaps were not on the same page. The shots did not come from the forked tree location. They came from the south side of the underpass to the left of the forked tree (if your standing there) about maybe 150 feet or so, (to the right of the forked tree if your looking at the Cancelare photo .... south parking lot or south side of bridge)

Kathy C

That does not look like a picture from 1963. The guy's hair looks more modern. Also, were color passport pictures common in 1963?

Good points.... and I pegged the picture around 1985 or there abouts... however, the source told me the story..,. I think its a 'Plan"t... However, can anyone ID this fellow? Seems others get a photo with a story and soon I get one with a story... whats with that?

ANYONE CARE TO CRITIQUE THAT DAMN THING.... OR IS IT TO MUCH OF A DELICATE MATTER? HAS IT BEEN DOCTORED OR BRUSHED OUT?

OH WELL... WHAT THU HELL. WHO CARES? RIGHT?

Sorry duplicate post.

Well. What's been done has been done. Its like crying over spilled milk. I wonder how this effects the truth of the events of that day, ....

"Like crying over spilled milk" ! This is what you say from a man in the know about what happened in your favorite area of Dealy, the grassy/south knoll area?

"how this effects the truth of the day" This from a man who supposedly outd sold out at the expense of EGOs and so called experts.

"whats been done has been done" ! Now thats is the best one. Saying that we may all just as well not be here.

Your nickname is "Tosh" right? The man who was in an "Abort Team" from the government which means you admit prior knowledge of the assassination. The man that has members here waiting with baited breath for the next tidbit of information about one of your ops. The man born in 09.

Too bad a man in the know, Mark Lane's book is available on Ebay for a buck plus postage. He writes:

"It has been clearly evident for years that the AMERICAN PUBLIC, AND THE people of the world, do not believe that Lee Harvey Oswald killed John F Kennedy, President of the United States of America, on November 22, 1963. Their belief is well founded. The evidence is on their side. It is on the side of truth.

"... The man who was in an "Abort Team" from the government which means you admit prior knowledge of the assassination. ..".

Damn right I do and I have told anyone that would listen that.

Clearly, the American people believe that this is not about "spilled milk."

Got cha' pissed off a little.. Right? Well good. We all should be pissed off because of the past tampering and destruction of files and documents that could and would prove matters relating to the cold blooded murder of a sitting President of forty plus years ago.

I haver been hollowing at the top of my lungs and shouting from the roof tops for over forty years, only to be snuffed out and sold out at the expense of EGOs and the so called experts and gate keepers.. The post was perhaps an awkward attempt to point out that truth was blocked by the Secret Service and other Federal agencies who had much to gain by the cover up The intent of the post was not to make light of the matter. We should all be ashamed of ourselves for letting this get to this level after all these years, by saying things, like, "OH! Well. Thats the way the cookie crumbles, or, "spilt milk"... its good your pissed... welcome to the club, my friend. Now take your Passion and write your Congressman, Your Senators, and whoever. Do something.

As for my believing in a conspiracy. I don't believe... I KNOW. Thanks for your interest... focus and do something about it.

P.S Go back to post #6 and re read:

"...

Bill: It sure as hell destroyed the ability of some damn good researchers to confirm various matters of information they had received from many operatives over a long period of time. That to me is the most unforgiving aspects of the act. The recorded events, as we know them today, are based upon a series of false and misleading information, inserted into the record because of those destroyed documents. History is written by those in power and their special interest cronies, and has nothing to do with truth. Its a shame we take our truths from books and media reports written by them; and we hoard and covet the documents placed by them and then, in time, we record them as FACTS. ...".

OH well, what the hell..., who cares?

This post has been edited by William Plumlee: Feb 27 2010, 07:10 PM

I think attatchment is smaller will delete previous post:

Does anyone know this person? Photo from Dallas Apartment house 1963. It was said by FBI this person was in Delay Plaza.

P.S

NOW don't jump my ass. I was told this was a passport photo and it was found near the Trinity River where a body was found in the river a few days after the assassination. Roscoe White's name was on the DPD report. Fardandez told the DPD that he thought he knew the man from Oak Cliff.... NOW again, I only recently received this information from a source in the DPD and a Texas Ranger of which I cannot, or will not name at this point.

Does anyone know this person? Photo from Dallas Apartment house 1963 (sorry if this came out to big. Its from an FBI file photo and I do not know how to cut it down)

A great pity, William. You probably remember the to and fro over locations etc of a couple of years ago. I approached it impartially and not only found, with the material available, that the sticks thrown at you were not deserved and that a shot from the south was indeed to be taken seriously, then Sherrys Blood Spatter Analysis, and now this infusion of new material to ponder.. (I've likewise explored many other possibilities, but this one I keep returning to, hoping apparently against hope that the missing bit of full quality Cancellare will emerge.) I agree about Al, he's a loss, and so is Tom, but one drove off the other. A pity. I also found three separate indications of a person crossing the rail at a time and place where you confirmed indirctly was possible. But they were only indications. If you had been given the same attention as say Moorman then many questions would have been answered. Afa PL goes, don't play with snakes.

Yes John. I do remember those days of old. To me, it seemed every time I was getting somewhere in my, "Story", and trying to get into the evidence, some documented and some via preponderance of new evidence recently declassified, is when the, "flak", started and the infighting and drawing away from the discussions and the content thereof of the threads was trashed.

In my view it happened more than once. When I was getting into a chronologically recap of events as I recalled them, as well as a timeline of events, and attempting to answer some of the questions of which I thought I could answer, that is when the attacks and discredit started. I was forced into a defensive mode. This went on for a very long time and I did hang in there and I did tried to refocus some of the postings back to there original intent.

I remember you and your objectivity and that of a few others who did look at the material objectively and did support the threads to some degree and I do not mean by agreeing with everything I presented. I also remember some others who I believe had other motives. In time I was accused of faking my death and many secret emails were sent out as to my motives in doing that, of which I had not done. (You can not prove a negative) Soon after I was accused of deleting all my postings. My responds was of no value. It was said, "I was a 'publicity seeker",... "just wanting attention"... "refusing to answer the HARD questions". and etc. Yes I do remember those days. And I see those days coming back in reference to a few of the private emails that are circulation around today and how the threads drift into matters as silly as ?????. I can't fight EGOS and special interest and the so called experts. I cannot confirm or even answer some of the questions the way they are presented to me. Its a no win situation for me. The deck is stacked, and I believe I know the reasons.

("Do you still beat your mother?... answer simply yes, or no.")

Thanks for your post and interest. Forgive me for going off topic, but that seems to be the format nowadays.., in reference to the investigations into the JFK assassination. The Best to you; Tosh

 

Quote: "...Jack is correct to having worked hard, but reporting to me that he could discern nothing he could make a definitive comment upon. He said he thought the apparent legs seen were the inverted shadow of the crotch of the tree. Tom later confirmed that and found two figures deep in the shadow of the tree - nothing to do with the light and dark patterns that can be seen by the naked eye in the photo. ...".

Pete I am not going into a long debate about the south knoll photo. However, the record must be cleared. I was the one who told you and Jim about the fork in the tree and that it was not the legs of a person. (1990) (.. this can be confirmed todat by looking at the photo that Bernice posted the other day, which was given to Barnard Finisterwald someyears ago. I drew that picture for Barnard Finisterwald Jr. in 1981 and drew another for Gary Shaw in 1979. AND I drew another one for the HSCA and previous old Church Committee around 1974 or 75. The FBI also had a drawn picture, by me, of where I said Sergio and I were standing and that was drawn at Buna Vista, Colorado in 1964.

Yes, T. You did say long ago that the apparent 'legs' were just the shadow of the tree.

The above quote again leaves a sour taste in my mouth as to the facts behind that damn Cancellare photo. Why didn't you tell Jack at the time that I had said the alleged legs seen in the photo were not legs, but the shadow of the tree fork. I had went over that with you many times before I ever knew of Jack White, or Tom Wilson. I said and have always said that we were hidden in the shadows and if we could find a good photo or negative of that area then perhaps we could prove it. I referenced Gary Shaw's book COVER-UP copyrighted 1976; page 126 and pointed out the picture in question as an example of an area that needed further work and investigation and said that it would go a long way in proving, "conspiracy".

With Jack White, I do what I do with anyone in such a situation - you included - and tell as little as possible - only what is needed to not waste their time, so as to not prejudice them or plant ideas in their minds. I DID tell him to look in the shadows of the tree - NOT at the fake legs...and he did..he worked very hard at it and, as he said, couldn't with conventional photographic work come to any definitive conclusion....Tom Wilson, with his totally novel approach WAS able to!

This is but one of many examples of how facts become interwoven with someone else's preconceive ideas and speculations of how they want. things to be or not to be. Later, the tree fork shadow was used to discredit me because it was said that I said the fork shadow was the legs of a person. I never said that. But the damage had been done.... the jury had returned their verdict and the matter went nowhere.

Some of what you say may be true, but do NOT pin it on me nor Jack - NOR Tom Wilson, who went one hell of a long way to vindicate you...even if you have not [and I have not told you or others]....YET..and I have my reasons. Patience is a virtue, I hear.

As to me stopping Walt from releasing my personal detailed family information to the

research community, and to you... well I told you. "... I was not going to see my family's information spread around and thrown out there into the public domain for all to speculate on, as to what it really meant in reference to JFK and the TEXAS CLAN. I was not going to let it be twisted around to fit into someone's preconceived ideas about JFK and bring my family into that mess. Jay Harrison was a close friend long before I met you. I told Walt ,..NOT to release my information that Jay Harrison had obtained on me from me and others to anyone. It was not personally meant to be against you. However, by your tone I think you took it that way. Anyway, enough of this. You mentioned trust. Well I have waited over 15 years for you and Tom Wilson to get it together... but both of you were so damn secret and paranoid with your information, that nothing came of the south knoll photo findings. So if you are going to quote and slant, then get it right. I still see you as a friend and working colleague, although at times I have referenced you as my, "Radical Friend". I do not care about the photo, or if you ever get the confirmations or info from anyone.

Tom is dead and I'm dealing with his family. It is NOT easy and I don't care to go into details publicly. You blame others for what they have no control over sometimes [to often]. There are many here on this Forum and the DPF who know how hard I've worked. that you haven't seen the fruit of it yet might be something you know a lot about...resistance from strange 'quarters' and fear [or naiveté'] from even those not in on the plot.

Why do you think after all these years, that that photo has been such an embarrassment to the Federal Government? Why has it been locked away and the facts thereof sealed? Why has the details behind its existence been keep from the research community for all these years? Care to address that question ? Best to you my friend. Tosh

What specifically do you want to know and have told. I have posted before [more than once] that Tom was able to detect to his satisfaction two persons - one tall, one not so tall standing exactly where you said you and Sergio were. He could NOT see the details of the faces. He did mention objects they were carrying. One object the shorter man carried matched an exactly similar object a few other persons in the Plaza had. To me, it all says [in the short version] either you were there and so knew of the two people there in the shadows, operational, OR were told of them and told to tell the story. I'd like to for many reasons believe the former, but I can't yet make a conclusion. As I have said before in private emails and mostly you have ignored [not responded to them] the Redbird part of your story has some big holes in it......BIG holes....that seem to be a combination of two other flights that can be verified. I'm NOT saying you are not telling the truth, but it is infinitely more complex than you are making it here! Why you chose to not answer those direct questions and why when we were working 'together' you introduced me to two others who were on your flight and then my life went 'South' and you never tried to re-connect me with them, only you know....These are things you'd perhaps like to discuss privately and I'd respect that, but don't tell me I haven't gone further than anyone other than a conman starting with a V and a pornking starting with a D to try to get your story verified and out. There are many things you don't know about in the works on Wilson and putting them in public would allow the 'Bad Guys' to defeat them. Your friend. Peter

Peter: Thanks for that fine recap from your POV. Its obvious we both have a different POV and always have and perhaps will. That is one reason we debated so forcefully so many times in the past. Its the slant as to your interruptions of what I have said that 'sets me off '.

I was on record as far back as 1964 and drew a picture of that day for the FBI. I told many long before any other flights from Dallas came into the record about the parked DC-3 (which was confirmed by January before he died and too, there was an FAA record of that from him)

I did introduced you to two people who were on that flight and they told you to your face that they were there with me and Sergio.

your quote from above"...

I'm NOT saying you are not telling the truth, but it is infinitely more complex than you are making it here! Why you chose to not answer those direct questions and why when we were working 'together' you introduced me to two others who were on your flight and then my life went 'South' and you never tried to re-connect me with them, only you know.. ...".

Very true. But when I told you to make that part public because those two people gave the O.K. to do that, for their protection. you got so paranoid and scared..., that you scared them off. Their quote to me, before they died of old age some years ago, was: "... he is to paranoid for me to work with... "Do you know who you are really dealing with?..". " I don't trust him he is to secret and too scared". I told you that and you said I was holding out on you and not being truthful. Even Tom Wilson, after I contacted him in reference to the findings, of which he said he had found and asked me at the time about another person he had found in the photo, near the south parking lot; told me he was NOT working with you anymore because you were to "PUSHY and on the radical side". I even told you that some time ago and you got pissed at me, because I contacted him without your permission. And asked me why I was sabotaging the project. Then you blamed me for all your trouble in San Diego because of the JFK matter and investigation. Again, I see it from one POV and you another... I do respect that. BUT, I do have a problem with how you interrupt things.. This is going nowhere. I'm the bad guy, because I do not agree with some and their interruption of events of which I was involved with.

This thread will go dead like many others. (and has) I will leave it at that. I accept; ".. I do not work well with others...". but I am not a damn xxxx, nor a CIA disinformation expert... in spite of what some have said in their "Private Emails"... of which I am very much aware of.

I have told you I have other interest than JFK, and the 'who done its', thereof. I am to the point I really care less what is done in that direction. I see clearly why John Stockwell, Gary Shaw, and a host of others, have done the same. The JFK investigation has become too convoluted and smelly for me to be of any help to anyone anymore.

I only stepped back into this mess because of something that was posted, and a friend directed me to it. I have attempted to correct that... but from my POV... its the same ole' same ole in fighting and BS and in the end leads nowhere or to any firm conclusions. You take care my friend. As you have said.., "... I am a very complex fellow".. We'll leave it at that and I'll just move on. You can keep the floor and tickle the ears..., I do not want no part of it anymore. Tosh

Tosh,

Seiwell died in 2006.

James

Thanks James. That is very interesting, because I had an appointment around 2008 or 9 to talk with him in Dallas when I was going to also meet with Billy Sol Estes around that same time... neither of those meetings took place and were canceled at the last minute. Someone claiming to be a family member of Seiwells said he was to sick to see me... Ha.. must have been true if he was DEAD. I have been asking around about him for a few years now. I want to thank the research community for working with me on this.... they could have saved me a lot of wasted time if they had told me he was dead. Oh well, thats the way the cookie crumbles. Did he die in Dallas? Has it been confirmed that he was dead?... remember, I FAKED my death a few years ago, RIGHT? NADA .... Thanks James.... been out to that "little place" down your way lately? I'm sure they have it pretty well under control now days. Thanks Amigo. You take care. And Thanks Again, Tosh

Tosh,

The Social Security death index has Seiwell's passing as verified. Don't know where he died.

Interesting character. One of Gen. Walker's guys, Ashwell Burchwell was busted in Dallas with a trunk full of weapons. I was working an angle at one time that connected Seiwell to these guns but it went nowhere. I was also fumbling around a connection involving Ed McLemore and a guy named Harrod Miller, they also connecting with Seiwell. Miller is someone of great interest and can be searched here at this forum. I posted a photo of him just recently. Researcher Jim Root is on to him as well.

Regarding Felipe Vidal Santiago, in the months leading up to the assassination, he was working closely with Frank Fiorini/Sturgis and Jerry Buchanan. They were sourcing finance through Dr. Julio Garceran. I am working on a lead that may identify a couple of Vidal's guys as the Cuban team in Chicago.

Roy Hargraves, a couple of Vidal's relatives and some old associates put him in Dallas. A couple of these guys also put him amongst the action.

FWIW.

Anyway, I've been keeping my nose clean of late and out of trouble. A low profile is the way to go.

Cheers,

James

Way to go! You just tied a few things together for me: Seiwell and Walker: The Chicago bunch, a few were Cuban, as found in missing Chicago Secret Service files. The Sportatorum and Ed Mc Lemora who owned the Sportatorum. Burchwell and Miller used to hang at Harlendale and the apartment house behind Beckley. The guns (only a few found) were to go to Omega-7 (not Alpha-66) Howard Miller was a gay friend of Seiwells and owned a 56 chev. Most of that whole group were associated with the Texas gambling and politics of the Dallas area and into Austin, Texas. Most had direct ties to the Dallas Police Department, and the 'It'll Do" Club, near the telephone building not far from Gaston Ave. Ring any bells for you?

I too, have been behind the fence, kind of on the "Farm". Not doing much in reference to JFK. Only stepped back in for a very short time, because of something that was said a few weeks ago. Working Mexico and the Drug wars for a production company. You be safe my friend.., and again thanks. Tosh

U E Baughman

P5) Joachim Joesten, How Kennedy Was Killed (1968)

One of the most eminent authorities on the subject, former Secret Service chief U.E. Baughman, who headed that agency from 1948 to 1961, has publicly taken issue, in several newspaper interviews, with the lack of adequate precautions which is so painfully apparent in the Dallas tragedy.

A UPI dispatch from Washington, dated December 8, 1963 quoted Mr. Baughman as saying that "there are a lot of things' to be explained" concerning the assassination.

One thing Baughman wanted to know - nobody has explained it yet - is why Lee H. Oswald was permitted to leave

the Book Depository after the shooting.

He asked, also, assuming that the shots did come from the sixth-floor window of that building, why the Secret Service didn't immediately pepper that -window with machine gun fire?

This is one of the most obvious - and least asked - of all "unanswered questions" about the Kennedy murder. Why, indeed, was all the shooting done only by one side - that of the assassins?

There were dozens of Secret Service men on the scene, all former FBI agents and tested marksmen, quick on the trigger and with their service guns and submachine guns at the ready - to say nothing of the hundreds of Dallas policemen who were also present when the President died in a hail of bullets. And not a single shot was fired by any of these alert guardians of the law! Had the Secret Service men reacted as Baugham says they should have, by instantly 'peppering' the TSBD window with machine gun fire, the sniper crouching behind that window would certainly not have been able to get off a second or third shot, as the Commission says he did.

In a subsequent interview with Seth Kantor of the Scripps-Howard newspaper chain, Mr. Baughman declared that it was a "basic, established rule" of the Secret Service to see to it that people were kept out of the upper stories of buildings along a presidential parade route. The manager of the Texas School Book Depository therefore "should have been under firm instructions by the police" to close the upper floors of that building to unauthorized persons...

The Secret Service couldn't spare a man either for checking the grassy knoll, a textbook location for a guerilla-type ambush. This breathtaking deficiency came to light when there were reports that a man who identified himself as a member of the Secret Service was encountered near the knoll just after the assassination. These reports drew a firm denial from the Secret Service which stated explicitly that it had no man posted there.

It would have been better for the Secret Service to have said that the knoll had been swarming with agents who didn't notice a damn thing than thus to admit another such glaring dereliction of duty.

Well. What's been done has been done. Its like crying over spilled milk. I wonder how this effects the truth of the events of that day, being we base everything on what the government has said in one form or another as to the events of that day. And too, we write books based on those statements and the statements of those agents and others who got most of their information from their documents. They in turn establish the record and the history. We quote them and their pages as facts..., facts that in reality destroy truth.

I remember reading Hancock's book and wondering if it was Felipe Vidal Santiago but I have not done research to know of his exact whereabouts on the day in question.

Vidal was in Dallas.

This image below of Felipe Vidal Santiago was provided by one of his relatives.

James

That guy was in Dallas, but he is not Gator. I never knew him..., but I did know of him. I think there is a picture near the president before the motorcade moved out. You have anything on that? Kind of looked like a SS agent.

Tosh,

Seiwell died in 2006.

James

Thanks James. That is very interesting, because I had an appointment around 2008 or 9 to talk with him in Dallas when I was going to also meet with Billy Sol Estes around that same time... neither of those meetings took place and were canceled at the last minute. Someone claiming to be a family member of Seiwells said he was to sick to see me... Ha.. must have been true if he was DEAD. I have been asking around about him for a few years now. I want to thank the research community for working with me on this.... they could have saved me a lot of wasted time if they had told me he was dead. Oh well, thats the way the cookie crumbles. Did he die in Dallas? Has it been confirmed that he was dead?... remember, I FAKED my death a few years ago, RIGHT? NADA .... Thanks James.... been out to that "little place" down your way lately? I'm sure they have it pretty well under control now days. Thanks Amigo. You take care. And Thanks Again, Tosh

I am not sure what you mean about "Google Earth". I do not think that would give a good perspective as to depth and alignment. Perhaps, I am not following. I asked sometime back if someone could or would take a look today from the south knoll, as well as the parking lot and the "Wedge and Pillar" of the underpass.., but nobody has responded and the thread has been dropped. Of course I am working off memory and feelings. I have been back there hundreds of times after the shooting. The first impressions, of that day, are still fresh in my memory.

Thanks for your input and interest. Tosh

Tosh, in your browser, type in "google earth street view." This will take you to a sight about how to use google earth. Then type in : "Elm St and Houston St, Dallas, TX." It's really a lot of fun. You use your mouse to get around.

Kathy C

Thanks Kathy; I have used it before and it does have very good features. I am now in Mexico and to get cell service from here is sometimes spotty at best..., so if I fade out for awhile then don't think I am ignoring you, or others. I have taken these past few days to try and help on a few matters of interest to sum. However, most of the postings does not seem to be going anywhere.

Anyway, I'll do what I can, when I can. People are getting killed left and right down here and I am working on a production for Nat Geo. concerning the Border Wars and drug running, as well as covering the cartel's infighting for territory in and around Juarez . Its very dangerous here and I do have to watch my six around here. To much computer time does open me up for questioning from some down here. Most around here are paranoid..., and to the cartels are strong. They do not ask what your doing... they just chop your head off and leave it on the border. I hope you and others understand.

Meanwhile, try and get some others on the forum to post the views from the areas we are talking about. Google is good, but unless you have walked the area and looked for yourself, then it is hard to see what a shooter saw back then. The best to you and thanks again for your interest..., and I will be back in a few weeks. (Good Lord willing) Later Tosh