William Plumlee

A new generation of young adults are earnestly seeking for truth, searching for the recorded events which are found embedded within the history of the United States. These new breed of truth seekers are searching the raw data banks and reading countless, books, publications, and Forums (like this one) in hopes of finding a gem of history concerning America’s turbulent years of the fifties, the sixties and the death of JFK, and onward through the nineties, and into our war on terrorist and Iraq.

This is a dangerous task for them. It is a path which leads many into unseen pit falls and an assortment of land mines and planted falsehoods by unscrupulous promoters, informants, wanta-bees, SOF’s , CIA agents, publishers, authors, and profiteers. It is these obstacle which leads many away from their objective and their honest attempt toward finding the real truth as to America’s historical events.

Some, believing what they read and what they are told, unknowingly continue this false reporting and push these untruths forward, as found in their academic endeavor. It is found in their writings and published works. It is found in their conversations. The books they read they quote from and present them as cornerstones of truth simply because it is the “written word”; it is found in a book, so it has to be correct. They have been told by the elite experts that, “it is the gospel, and a fact, because I have said so”. The older generation, in some respects, has done a grave dis service to this younger generation by planting these falsehoods and allowing them to stand as truth.

Speculation has become FACT and theories have become HISTORY. Past events have been manipulated to benefit a select few and their specialized projects. Profits and lively hoods have been made from the names of dead people. Lies have been put in the record and maliciously filtered into the historical recordings to protect and shield the politically correct and their elected officials.

The true history of America’s turbulent past is tarnished by corrupt powers that be. Because it is written in a book; because it is seen upon the silver screen, hashed out on TV, or told by a “self proclaimed expert”, does not make it a true historical event.

My advise to this new young breed of researcher is to challenge, research, question, and take nothing you read or hear at face value. If it is of truth, it will ring true to you.., your inter being will bare witness and you will know the course to follow and avoid the many obstacles that pull one away from truth and history. Because it has been written in a book or told to you by an “expert” does not make it true, nor does it belong in America's history.

John: I will get what little factual information I know about OPS-40 to you as soon as I have the time to write it up. As you know any detailed organizational matters and the why's and how and who, as to the formation, I would not know. If I did tell you anything in reference to that.., it would only be speculation on my part. That is how operations are or were done on a "need to know bases". I was not at the "planning" level to know those things. Sometimes I was dispatched to members of ops forty as their operational support member. What and why they were doing what they were doing I would not know..., nor would I ask.

Especially interested in the names of the people concerned and any information on individual operations.

John: I'll do my best, but I might not be of much help as to "pin-pointing" the names of all the operatives that were associated with OPS-40. As you know, part of the operation was a spin from the 5412 group. Operatives would come and go as specialized support personal and they were controlled and dispatched by the 40 group which was part of the 5412 group.

In reality there was no covert team named as "Operation 40" that I am aware of and as some have claimed. Liberties have been taken for whatever reasons and 40 has been cast into a different function than what it really was. Some of the operatives that from time to time did launch missions in behalf of the 40 or 5412 were mostly from the "School of The America" and other specialized operational personal and their training commands. Kind of like TDY ( Temp Duty assignments).

As to the mechanics and various operations I can only name about four I was associated with and those are questionable as being dispatched solely by OPS-40 command and cleared by the 5412 Group.

Our Teams were dispatched from the Pentagon with logistical support gave by the CIA. In most cases you could say ".. they were not really "CIA" operations, but in reality Military INTEL OPS with CIA logistical support...".

At any rate the operations were "layered" and numerous "Locks" and "cut-outs" were assigned to protect the knowledge of these operations and the operational personal.

.

EDIT:: in the other image there seems to be a good indication that at least one person was at the south end of the triple underpass as the Limo was speeding off.

If the person went west "B" from the south parking area and over the RR tracks then our driver, who was at the bottom of the hill "B" leading from the RR tracks, would have seen him, because that is the only location to get to this west muddy parking area from the RR tracks. We would have been right behind him perhaps one minute or two. We would have seen him walking in the area or getting into another near-by car if he had went over the same route Sergio and I had followed.... We did not see anything after the shooting that would cause us to look into this possibility at that time.

It sounds so matter-of-fact when Tosh says, "We did not see anything after the shooting that would cause us to look into this possibility at that time." My understanding is that Tosh and Sergio needed to get their butts out of there, toot sweet! Their sense of what had just transpired was probably more informed, and therefore more immediately fearful, than even Oswald's. Just as the B&W Moorman is like a Rorschach test for the north knoll, Cancellaire is the same for the south knoll. I have seen and cannot dispute a number of images that are potentially valid.

Here's a photo I took from the south side, precisely where John Dolva shows the isolate figure with partical face showing. A perfect straight-on shot. Al Carrier has argued, I believe, that in his view this trajectory best explains Kennedy's headwound and why the rear evulsion would have been on the right rear rather than left:

T.C.

Thanks TC. Good work on the pictures. If you notice in the "black and white" you can see the concrete railing and pillars. (upper right hand side of picture) At the time this picture was taken (just a few seconds after the shots) the area in question is clean. Sergio and I were about eighty feet or so to the left near the south knoll north south sidewalk next the big tree fork shadow. That is another area that is in question where two people are said to be found.

(note; The shadow that looks like legs is really the fork shadow from the tree. If you look close you can see different contrast and light areas which some have said or sholders and heads in the shadow of the tree. Tom Watson before he died was working on this section and the one near the overpass. I was told some years ago that he had found people at these two locations, but wanted to do further photo work.

The second color picture is a very good one as to the "head on shot" from the overpass location and would explain the "cracked winsheld. If you notice there is a slight curve in the road and a slight downward hill the limo was traveling. When considered this would allow a shot from the height of the overpass to pass over the windsheild and hit JFK. Thanks again John D and TC for the good work.

Thank you, William, the extra 'color' to the situation helps. Just to make sure I got you right. Is it to car park A (east of rr) or B (west across rr) that you say is route? If A, do you consider B a possibility?

(just so you know where I'm coming from. I have no problems with a south knoll shooter. I've looked at just that concrete fence that you mention and also considered escape routes(in my case across the rr). But only from photos and maps))

EDIT:: in the other image there seems to be a good indication that at least one person was at the south end of the triple underpass as the Limo was speeding off.

John D: Very good work on the photos. Tom Wilson before he died was also looking into this area and once told me he thought he also saw a person behind this concrete pillar.

As to your question: I speculate that it would be the parking lot "A" south and east of the RR tracks. ( south end of Tripple Underpass) The reason. If the person went west "B" from the south parking area and over the RR tracks then our driver, who was at the bottom of the hill "B" leading from the RR tracks, would have seen him, because that is the only location to get to this west muddy parking area from the RR tracks. We would have been right behind him perhaps one minute or two. We would have seen him walking in the area or getting into another near-by car if he had went over the same route Sergio and I had followed.

I speculate that there were two persons who made their escape from the shooting position ( spotter and shooter... the spotter would perhaps be hidden at the extreme north and west side of the lot in the shadows behind and to the right of the shooter... the 3rd person, a driver, perhaps located in the south parking area ready to move out with the two others would not be far away. This is speculation.

We did not see anything after the shooting that would cause us to look into this possibility at that time.

NOTE: Notice the overhead picture of the "Tripple Underpass" on each end there is a concrete railing pillared which cruves thirty degrees to the east on each side of the underpass. People standing on the underpass ( 40 feet north of this position) and focused on the arrival of the President, would not be able to see a person come from the south parking lot and hide behind this curved railing with concrete slats and take a shooting position. Sergio and I did not notice this possible hiding place until many years after the event.[/b]

William, having been there, would you say that the carpark that appears from the later aerial photo (seen here also in the corner of the 1960's aerial b/w photo) that appears to exit on to feeder heading south is a possible escape route?

John D:

I'll use the RR tracks as north south reference (right side of picture being south) The auto which we used after we crossed over the RR tracks was parked at the bottom of the hill down from the RR tracks (west) It was muddy If I remember right the street that goes north and south is or was a divided street (industrial blvd) at the time. I think there was construction at or around this location (not sure) However, again-- if I remember right --we had to go north and make a U-Turn on the west side of the Triple Underpass to go south on Industrial to the Sportatorum and the Cadiz Street Via dock (?spl) which crossed the Trinity River into Oak Cliff. I can't remember for sure where the "one way" on Commerce going north started... but I think we turned west on main , but not sure. I was not paying to much attention as to which way we were going or why. By then I was really shook up and despondent.

The south parking lot was south end of the RR tracks and east. We had checked that area earlier but perhaps missed something in the cars parked there before the assassination. There was no picket fence just a line of trees, if I remember right.

Speculation:

I think the shooter went back to the south parking lot and left in an auto going south out of the parking lot; then left for half block, then right going past the Dallas Rail Road Terminal and across the bridge into Oak Cliff.

He could of fired from the south end of the overpass then walked the ten feet or so into the parking lot while everyone even Sergio and I were stunned. He could of been long gone before Dallas PD even reacted. It took awhile to block off all escape routes. Time frame less than five minutes for Sergio and I to cleared the area and perhaps even less for the south knoll shooter.

note: This was told in brief to Special Agent of the Denver FBI Scot Warner at the " Colorado State Reformatory in Jan. 1964. I had bee extradited from West Palm Beach Florida to Colorado concerning an "Insufficient fund check" that was never produced in court. I was sentenced By Judge Finsilver (who later was appointed a "Federal Judge") to an "INDEFINATE term in the Colorado State Reformatory. (This is NOT a prison. I was released two weeks after the WC concluded their hearings and I was on two years supervised parole. No checked were ever produced in a court of law. I was warned while in custody that . "If I continued to talk about the Kennedy assassination... I would never get out". I was told by my Miami case office to ride it out for a few months for my own safety. That I did.

Perhaps this is more than your question. When you answer one thing it leads to another. This has been in the record for over forty plus years. Its not new material. Just been tampered with for whatever reasons.

NOTE: Notice the overhead picture of the "Tripple Underpass" on each end there is a concrete railing pillared which cruves thirty degrees to the east on each side of the underpass. People standing on the underpass ( 40 feet north of this position) and focused on the arrival of the President, would not be able to see a person come from the south parking lot and hide behind this curved railing with concrete slats and take a shooting position. Sergio and I did not notice this possible hiding place until many years after the event.[/b]

William, having been there, would you say that the carpark that appears from the later aerial photo (seen here also in the corner of the 1960's aerial b/w photo) that appears to exit on to feeder heading south is a possible escape route?

I have a secret classified file as defined within the National Security statutes under the name of William Robert (Tosh) Plumlee aka William H "Buck" Pearson code named "Zapata", Miami Cuba Desk, 1960-63 MI/CIA OMC-TFW7; Section C (locate Tab B & D) classified information; portions declassified Aug 1998. Associated with Operation 40 connected to the NSC and the "White House Situations Rooms briefings. I was a contract operative for the CIA, associated with Tracy Barns, Wild Bill Harvey, Frank Bender, John Martino and many others. All my previous testimony concerning government investigations has been under oath.

Thank you for producing this clear timeline. It will be interesting to see if Gerry Hemming follows you example on his timeline.

I believe that Operation 40 played a key role in the assassination of JFK. Could you tell us as much as you can about who and what it involved?

John: I will get what little factual information I know about OPS-40 to you as soon as I have the time to write it up. As you know any detailed organizational matters and the why's and how and who, as to the formation, I would not know. If I did tell you anything in reference to that.., it would only be speculation on my part. That is how operations are or were done on a "need to know bases". I was not at the "planning" level to know those things. Sometimes I was dispatched to members of ops forty as their operational support member. What and why they were doing what they were doing I would not know..., nor would I ask.

On another matter... food for thought...concerning a creck in the Limo windsheld, which I have been asked about. I hope the following might be of help for those interested:

note: portions posted a few years ago on Lancer, I think:

Reference pilot Tosh Plumlee:

"...While on the south knoll, Sergio and I were attempting to evaluate the most logical places where shooters might be located, but everything was confused, the timing was off, team members were late getting into position. They were not where they were supposed to be and the limited radio contacts that we had with them were not working, or spotty at best. It was soon after our arrival that the motorcade arrived. When the shots rang out, I had the impression of 4 or 5 shots, with one being fired from behind and to my left on the South Knoll, near the underpass and south parking lot. While leaving via the south side of the underpass near the train tracks, Sergio and I smelled gunpowder.

Speculation:

(The south knoll shot could have come from atop the south end of the overpass (where the railing slants away from the middle part), in which case the shooter would be behind (and probably shooting through an opening in) the heavily built railing.

At this point (shooters viewpoint) the street makes a slight curve toward the shooter and puts JFK "zero degree angle" and moving toward the shooter, therefore taking Mrs. Kennedy out of the killzone (... moveing her conter-clockwise (left) and back from the shooters line of fire. The target was moving head on toward the south knoll shooter.

If there was a crack in the windsheld the shot would show a direct line leading up and back to the south knoll shooter at the RR tracks west edge, south end of the Tripple Underpass.

NOTE: Notice the overhead picture of the "Tripple Underpass" on each end there is a concrete railing pillared which cruves thirty degrees to the east on each side of the underpass. People standing on the underpass ( 40 feet north of this position) and focused on the arrival of the President, would not be able to see a person come from the south parking lot and hide behind this curved railing with concrete slats and take a shooting position. Sergio and I did not notice this possible hiding place until many years after the event.

I have a secret classified file as defined within the National Security statutes under the name of William Robert (Tosh) Plumlee aka William H "Buck" Pearson code named "Zapata", Miami Cuba Desk, 1960-63 MI/CIA OMC-TFW7; Section C (locate Tab B & D) classified information; portions declassified Aug 1998. Associated with Operation 40 connected to the NSC and the "White House Situations Rooms briefings. I was a contract operative for the CIA, associated with Tracy Barns, Wild Bill Harvey, Frank Bender, John Martino and many others. All my previous testimony concerning government investigations has been under oath.

Thank you for producing this clear timeline. It will be interesting to see if Gerry Hemming follows you example on his timeline.

I believe that Operation 40 played a key role in the assassination of JFK. Could you tell us as much as you can about who and what it involved?

John: I will get what little factual information I know about OPS-40 to you as soon as I have the time to write it up. As you know any detailed organizational matters and the why's and how and who, as to the formation, I would not know. If I did tell you anything in reference to that.., it would only be speculation on my part. That is how operations are or were done on a "need to know bases". I was not at the "planning" level to know those things. Sometimes I was dispatched to members of ops forty as their operational support member. What and why they were doing what they were doing I would not know..., nor would I ask.

On another matter... food for thought...concerning a creck in the Limo windsheld, which I have been asked about. I hope the following might be of help for those interested:

note: portions posted a few years ago on Lancer, I think:

Reference pilot Tosh Plumlee:

"...While on the south knoll, Sergio and I were attempting to evaluate the most logical places where shooters might be located, but everything was confused, the timing was off, team members were late getting into position. They were not where they were supposed to be and the limited radio contacts that we had with them were not working, or spotty at best. It was soon after our arrival that the motorcade arrived. When the shots rang out, I had the impression of 4 or 5 shots, with one being fired from behind and to my left on the South Knoll, near the underpass and south parking lot. While leaving via the south side of the underpass near the train tracks, Sergio and I smelled gunpowder.

Speculation:

(The south knoll shot could have come from atop the south end of the overpass (where the railing slants away from the middle part), in which case the shooter would be behind (and probably shooting through an opening in) the heavily built railing.

At this point (shooters viewpoint) the street makes a slight curve toward the shooter and puts JFK "zero degree angle" and moving toward the shooter, therefore taking Mrs. Kennedy out of the killzone (... moveing her conter-clockwise (left) and back from the shooters line of fire. The target was moving head on toward the south knoll shooter.

If there was a crack in the windsheld the shot would show a direct line leading up and back to the south knoll shooter at the RR tracks west edge, south end of the Tripple Underpass.

Tosh, you have come under a lot of attack from Gerry Hemming about your past. I thoought it might be a good idea to start a thread where you could post a timeline of your past activities. I have asked Gerry to do the same but so far he seems reluctant to do so.

WILLIAM R PLUMLEE

I enlisted and was assigned to military specialized operations at Fort Bliss, Texas in April of 1954.(RA18389060; Recon Training Command, RTC-D8)

I was associated with various Military Intelligence units of the Fourth Army based at Fort Bliss, Texas, and also the Fourth Army Reserve, located at Dallas Love Field, Dallas Texas. This service period was in the early to mid fifties and into the early sixties.

Approximately 1962 through 1963, I was assigned to Task Force W Section- C-7 tab B and D know as the Cuban Project which operated at the time from the JM/WAVE station attached to Miami, Florida's 'Cuba Desk' of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

I operated as a contract "Undercover pilot" and also, at times, I was assigned to specialized Cuban operations of the CIA's "Covert Action Group" (CAG) I was engaged in many secret operations through out the early sixties.

Some years later, after brief retirement, known by some as the forum as 'The Farm'. I reactivated myself and became attached as an undercover operative and contract pilot for the federal government during President Reagan's "Drug War". (1979-86)

I was attached to a secret team known as 'America-Mexico Special Operations Group' ("AMSOG"), HQ'ed Panama Southern Command. I was also a pilot and associated with the Contra Resupply Network.

I have testified four times in close door session, to various Senate and congressional investigative committees (Director FBI 1964; J Hoover; Senator Church, 1976-75; closed-door testimony, classified TS; to Congressmen Tom Downing's investigators, before the HSCA was formed; (1975) to Senator John Kerry's Committee of 1988-91 Senate Foreign Relations Committee twice, August 2, 1991 & May 7-15, 1992 also classified " "TS Committee Sensitive" and the "Tri-State Drug Task Force", (Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico) chaired by Arizona Governor, Bruce Babbit.

The cover operation contact cut out was the Phoenix Organized Crime Div. Phoenix AZ,1975-86. I worked with Senator Gary Hart and his security adviser Bill Holden, on previous intelligence matters with the NSC and the drug war with Colombia and Costa Rica. I worked UC operations with KiKi Camarena and his pilot, before they were murdered and I was a Military/DEA contract pilot, attached to Panama and Colombia, Costa Rica Investigative Task Force on Narcotics.

I have a secret classified file as defined within the National Security statutes under the name of William Robert (Tosh) Plumlee aka William H "Buck" Pearson code named "Zapata", Miami Cuba Desk, 1960-63 MI/CIA OMC-TFW7; Section C (locate Tab B & D) classified information; portions declassified Aug 1998. Associated with Operation 40 connected to the NSC and the "White House Situations Rooms briefings. I was a contract operative for the CIA, associated with Tracy Barns, Wild Bill Harvey, Frank Bender, John Martino and many others. All my previous testimony concerning government investigations has been under oath.

William R. Plumlee

Most of my "TIME LINE" has already been posted on this forum over a year ago. However it was not of much interest and I moved on to other matters. I have only posted this in order to keep my word. I am not sure what this forum wants of me?

Reference:

QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Oct 26 2004, 09:54 AM)Back to Questions for Tosh:

Tosh, you have probably already covered something regarding the following, at least to some extent. However, I'd appreciate your replies whenever you get a chance.

1) Regarding what you were asked to do on 11/21/1963 - 11/23/1963, who hired you?

2) What exactly where you asked to do?

3) Did the people that hired you, or the ones that were with you, discuss Dealy Plaza, the motorcade, and the President specifically prior to your arrival in Dallas?

4) How many of the same people did you fly out of Dallas on 11/22/1963 as you flew in? Were there any new people on board?

5) Did anyone from the group, you were associated with around those days, ever discuss what went down on 11/22/1963 after the events had taken place?

Thanks!

WILLIAM R. PLUMLEE:

Antti: Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I will do my best to be brief on my answers.

(1) Background: I was attached to a MI unit as a contract pilot. I had also been a contract pilot for the CIA for a number of years before November 1963. (1956-63.) I had previously worked for a number of aviation companies, some CIA front companies, some contract companies for "specialized operations" of which some were attached to JM/Wave's CAG (Covert Action Group) forerunner of (MASOG, of S/E Asia), and other classified sections imbedded within military operations authorised by the Pentagon.

Most of our operations were Top Secret and 'cut outs' were used, as well as sequenced code names assigned to operatives, to protect the operatives and the missions from exposure. (William BUCK PEARSON not Buck Parsons)

My case officers of the time were Rex Beardsly, Robert Bennette, Larry Allen, Wm Carr, and others I can't recall at the moment. Most of these operatives and case officers were associated with William 'Wild Bill" Harvey",Wild Bill" Donovan, Tracy Barnes, Rip Robertson, and others who were previous OSS personal from WWII. I was employed By many different front companies which were (some years latter) proved to be CIA "cut-outs" and front companies of a civilian nature that were engaged in secret military contract type operations and assignments.

This was during the "Cold War" with Russia. I was, or had been a pilot on arms and ammo transportation before Castro came to power and gun-running to anti-Castro operatives inside Cuba and southern Florida after 1959

I was dispatched by Robert Bennette (Be-net-tee) and another I can't recall at the moment, to Lantana Florida from Loxahatchi (?) Florida, in a D-18 Twin Beach aircraft.., We changed aircraft to a DC 3..,at Tampa Florida and picked up other personal for a secret mission into Dallas, via New Orleans. At N.O. other operatives boarded the DC-3. and others from Florida got off.

My duties were the co-pilot on this operation E. Rojas, previous Cabana Airlines Captain was the Captain (pilot) for this flight. I went on Covert payrolls in the mid fifties and continued, off and on for many years. John Farentello (?) was my original recruiter for Florida. However I was first picked up at Fort Bliss, Texas AAA-RTC- D-8; US Army Military INTEL, in 1954. (RA-18389060) Captain Edward G Seiwell from Dallas Love Field, Fourth Army Reserve, was one of many case officers I was assigned to while working the Cuban Desk. (Miami/Dallas)

(2) I was asked to fly as co-pilot for a group of military and CIA operatives on a mission of which I did not know at the time what it was. I found that (what the mission was officially) when in Tampa Florida from Rojas, Sergio. and Bennette.

(note; I had heard a rumor at Lantana that information had been received from two Cubans in Miami that an assassination attempt was going to be made on the President. But I was under the impression it was to be in Austin, Texas, later it was said (Rosellie) to be at the Adolphus Hotel in Dallas

I was not "field"operational at that time, except as the pilot for the flight. It was later, on the flight, and at Garland Texas, that I became aware of the full scope of the operation, through Sergio, Rojas, and Bennette.

(3) No. I had no way of knowing what was being discussed in the back of the aircraft. It was at Red Bird, I think that I became fully aware of the scope of the operation and the routing of the Motorcade being changed to the Plaza. (my viewpoint and speculations at the time)

(4) Rojas, Sergio, Gator, and me. Perhaps there was one other but I do not know or remember for sure. If there was another it was not Oswald, Rosellie, Nicolettie (?) or anyone of that group. There were no new people who boarded at Red Bird, that I know off.(

(5) Yes. Sergio and I discussed it many times and talked it through with others in Miami (Frank Struges none operational) John Farentello; John Martino; also none operational: Sergio at West Palm Beach on the record and off ( as friends as well as professionals at the Dark Horuse bar)

I am in process of preparing an "Officail Noterized Transcript under Oath", if you will, and will post it soon for anyone that is interested. It will be my Official Transcript, signed my me. Something no other person or media types have.

Anything in previous print is subject to question and has not been authorizations or approved by me, or supports my signatures. Thanks for the questions. Forgive the "long winded". responds. Its not easy to say a simple yes or no to these type questions. I am trying my best to be brief.

Thanks again Tosh

--------------------

Tosh, you have come under a lot of attack from Gerry Hemming about your past. I thoought it might be a good idea to start a thread where you could post a timeline of your past activities. I have asked Gerry to do the same but so far he seems reluctant to do so.

WILLIAM R PLUMLEE

I enlisted and was assigned to military specialized operations at Fort Bliss, Texas in April of 1954.(RA18389060; Recon Training Command, RTC-D8)

I was associated with various Military Intelligence units of the Fourth Army based at Fort Bliss, Texas, and also the Fourth Army Reserve, located at Dallas Love Field, Dallas Texas. This service period was in the early to mid fifties and into the early sixties.

Approximately 1962 through 1963, I was assigned to Task Force W Section- C-7 tab B and D know as the Cuban Project which operated at the time from the JM/WAVE station attached to Miami, Florida's 'Cuba Desk' of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

I operated as a contract "Undercover pilot" and also, at times, I was assigned to specialized Cuban operations of the CIA's "Covert Action Group" (CAG) I was engaged in many secret operations through out the early sixties.

Some years later, after brief retirement, known by some as the forum as 'The Farm'. I reactivated myself and became attached as an undercover operative and contract pilot for the federal government during President Reagan's "Drug War". (1979-86)

I was attached to a secret team known as 'America-Mexico Special Operations Group' ("AMSOG"), HQ'ed Panama Southern Command. I was also a pilot and associated with the Contra Resupply Network.

I have testified four times in close door session, to various Senate and congressional investigative committees (Director FBI 1964; J Hoover; Senator Church, 1976-75; closed-door testimony, classified TS; to Congressmen Tom Downing's investigators, before the HSCA was formed; (1975) to Senator John Kerry's Committee of 1988-91 Senate Foreign Relations Committee twice, August 2, 1991 & May 7-15, 1992 also classified " "TS Committee Sensitive" and the "Tri-State Drug Task Force", (Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico) chaired by Arizona Governor, Bruce Babbit.

The cover operation contact cut out was the Phoenix Organized Crime Div. Phoenix AZ,1975-86. I worked with Senator Gary Hart and his security adviser Bill Holden, on previous intelligence matters with the NSC and the drug war with Colombia and Costa Rica. I worked UC operations with KiKi Camarena and his pilot, before they were murdered and I was a Military/DEA contract pilot, attached to Panama and Colombia, Costa Rica Investigative Task Force on Narcotics.

I have a secret classified file as defined within the National Security statutes under the name of William Robert (Tosh) Plumlee aka William H "Buck" Pearson code named "Zapata", Miami Cuba Desk, 1960-63 MI/CIA OMC-TFW7; Section C (locate Tab B & D) classified information; portions declassified Aug 1998. Associated with Operation 40 connected to the NSC and the "White House Situations Rooms briefings. I was a contract operative for the CIA, associated with Tracy Barns, Wild Bill Harvey, Frank Bender, John Martino and many others. All my previous testimony concerning government investigations has been under oath.

William R. Plumlee

--------------------

Biography: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1874

Thanks James. Yes I think your right about Ed Mc Lemore. I might have mentioned him in a previous post. Ed Mc Lemore owned the "Sportatorium" in Dallas. He was also a close friend of Gordon Mc Clendon (phon) who owned radio KLIF and too, a close associate or Clint Murchenson Sr. and operators of an Oil and gas drilling company in Midland Texas which LBJ held a financial interest.

Johnny Farentello's father had the concessions at the Wrestling arena ("The Sportatorum") Johnny was a close friend of John Martino of Miami. Fred Black used to hang out at the Sportatorum, as well as Mc Wallace. Jack Ruby made bets on "Gorgus George" a wrestler of the time and Fred Black covered the bets. Candy Barr and Gary Dean Bearing also associated with this Dallas gambling bunch and others in Fort Worth Texas. These same people also hung out at " Austin's Bar BQ in Oakclif ( West Dallas) with Tom Pugh and Tippit of the Dallas PD.

I am trying to make the connection between the Army Intell unit, Seiwell and these people, because the money for guns were funneled through this place and some of these people had connections with Alpha-66 and Cecil Fernandez as well as others from Morgan City LA. Some of the weapons came from the Texas National Guard.

Any help in this direction would be apreciated. I am not interested in the Cubans or Florida. That whole thing had nothing to do with JFK and Dallas. That was ongoing for a long time before JFK was murdered.

Thanks again Tosh

Background references and documentation:

P.S. Captain Seiwell was commander of a tank bat Fourth Army Reserve, at Dallas Love Field. I was a Cpl at the time and held the MOS for a "Tank Driver" I was a CPL at the time of my discharge and Seiwell signed my honorable discharge which qualified me for GI benefits. These benefits were used for flying lessons at White Rock Aviation, Dallas Texas.

Reference to document locations:

Notes Regarding References:

Certified military Records can be found on William R. Plumlee at the Texas Adjutant General, State of Texas, Headquarters,Texas National Guard; also at the archived files of the Fourth Army Reserve and Fifth Army, located at Camp Mabry, Austin Texas. The following is a brief summary of these records:

Enlistment Record of William Robert Plumlee:

Texas National Guard 49th, Armored Division; United States Army, Fourth Army HDQ, Fort Bliss Texas; Fourth Army Reserve, Dallas Love Field, Dallas, Texas.

Recap of documents found at the Texas Adjutant General, Camp Mabry, Austin Texas:

Office of Origin (OO) Records at Office of Adjutant General State of Texas Camp Mabry, Texas.

William Robert Plumlee S/N RA- 18389060; 9th of Feb 1955; grade CPL; Auth for grade 25-1; enlisted under authority of (NGR25-1) For service in NGS Texas; Company C 156Tk Bn. Fourth Army Reserve; DoB 11 25 37; Civil Trade or Occupation: Aircraft Mechanic, Southwest Airmotive, Dallas Love Field, Dallas, Texas.

Enlistment Records:

22Oct52 thu 8th Feb53 NG Enl s/n25926077 Pvt disc. HonMin; Disc. 8Feb53; re enl.

28th Sept53 thu 2Mar54USAR 4th Army; 18389060 Grade at disc.USAR, CPL.

3Mar54 thu 2Jul USA s/n18389060 rank CPL; United States Army (USA) Ft Bliss Texas assn. temp dty (unknown).

6Jul54-No Record of Disc. tnsf. Texas 4th Army Res, Dallas Love Field, Dallas Texas. Co C156Tk Bn.CO Capt. assn 'Specialized operations, Intel: Commanding officers; Capt. Gilbert B Cook; Texas National Guard: 2ndLt. Charles R Brannon, Arty; Ft. Bliss, Texas, (RTC); Capt. Edward G Seiwell, Fourth Army Reserves, Dallas, Texas; MOS: WR Plumlee 1795, 3795 Tank Crew man Tk Commander, Sherman Tank. Cpl. Plumlee USA MOS 'Unknown'; Unknown sta. Ft. Bliss, Texas; Fort Hood,Texas, National Guard; Unknown.

Texas National Guard; Texas Fourth Army Reserve; Certified Copy of Available Documents By; XXX referenced doc loc. "on file".

Medical reports: Personnel Records Center, St Louis, MO.

Previous Information that should be looked into:

Now we need to look at the Forth Army Reserve, Dallas Love Field. There was at one time a report from Company C 156th Tank Bat. which was relayed to 112th Intel at Fort Sam Houston which had Oswald living on Beckley for a very short time. They had received other earlier information from a 49th Armored Div. Texas National Guard, a Capt Cook and that information was sent to an ONI unit at Hensley Field Grand Prairie, Texas, requesting information about the status of LHO. This request was made before LHO had lived on Beckley and before he went to N.O. LHO name was on record with ONI before Beckley.

Congressman Tom Downing had received the documents from an 'unknown officer" of the Forth Army Reserve, Dallas. In time this information and documentation was given to a Texas State Representative, in Austin Texas. Shortly after this information was received by Congressman Downing. The hard copy was lost or misplaced shortly before the HSCA was chaired.

The WC did not obtain this information.

Professional researchers need to research the Forth Army Reserve and do a cross check on the names found in the Fourth and the Fifth Army and cross check the ONI Navy field office at Hensley or Bauchman Lake near Dallas Love Field.

John SimkinNov 25 2004, 12:44 AM

QUOTE(Steve Thomas @ Nov 22 2004, 07:35 PM)

Captain Fritz knew Oswald lived on Beckley before he started talking to him. The address didn’t come from Oswald and it didn’t come from any of the arresting officers. The Sheriff’s Deputies didn’t learn it until after the police had already arrived at Beckley. If Hosty can be believed, it didn’t come from the FBI. I believe it came from someone associated with military intelligence.

--------------------

Biography: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1874

Thanks James. Yes I think your right about Ed Mc Lemore. I might have mentioned him in a previous post. Ed Mc Lemore owned the "Sportatorium" in Dallas. He was also a close friend of Gordon Mc Clendon (phon) who owned radio KLIF and too, a close associate or Clint Murchenson Sr. and operators of an Oil and gas drilling company in Midland Texas which LBJ held a financial interest.

Johnny Farentello's father had the concessions at the Wrestling arena ("The Sportatorum") Johnny was a close friend of John Martino of Miami. Fred Black used to hang out at the Sportatorum, as well as Mc Wallace. Jack Ruby made bets on "Gorgus George" a wrestler of the time and Fred Black covered the bets. Candy Barr and Gary Dean Bearing also associated with this Dallas gambling bunch and others in Fort Worth Texas. These same people also hung out at " Austin's Bar BQ in Oakclif ( West Dallas) with Tom Pugh and Tippit of the Dallas PD.

I am trying to make the connection between the Army Intell unit, Seiwell and these people, because the money for guns were funneled through this place and some of these people had connections with Alpha-66 and Cecil Fernandez as well as others from Morgan City LA. Some of the weapons came from the Texas National Guard.

Any help in this direction would be apreciated. I am not interested in the Cubans or Florida. That whole thing had nothing to do with JFK and Dallas. That was ongoing for a long time before JFK was murdered.

Thanks again Tosh

Background references and documentation:

P.S. Captain Seiwell was commander of a tank bat Fourth Army Reserve, at Dallas Love Field. I was a Cpl at the time and held the MOS for a "Tank Driver" I was a CPL at the time of my discharge and Seiwell signed my honorable discharge which qualified me for GI benefits. These benefits were used for flying lessons at White Rock Aviation, Dallas Texas.

Reference to document locations:

Notes Regarding References:

Certified military Records can be found on William R. Plumlee at the Texas Adjutant General, State of Texas, Headquarters,Texas National Guard; also at the archived files of the Fourth Army Reserve and Fifth Army, located at Camp Mabry, Austin Texas. The following is a brief summary of these records:

Enlistment Record of William Robert Plumlee:

Texas National Guard 49th, Armored Division; United States Army, Fourth Army HDQ, Fort Bliss Texas; Fourth Army Reserve, Dallas Love Field, Dallas, Texas.

Recap of documents found at the Texas Adjutant General, Camp Mabry, Austin Texas:

Office of Origin (OO) Records at Office of Adjutant General State of Texas Camp Mabry, Texas.

William Robert Plumlee S/N RA- 18389060; 9th of Feb 1955; grade CPL; Auth for grade 25-1; enlisted under authority of (NGR25-1) For service in NGS Texas; Company C 156Tk Bn. Fourth Army Reserve; DoB 11 25 37; Civil Trade or Occupation: Aircraft Mechanic, Southwest Airmotive, Dallas Love Field, Dallas, Texas.

Enlistment Records:

22Oct52 thu 8th Feb53 NG Enl s/n25926077 Pvt disc. HonMin; Disc. 8Feb53; re enl.

28th Sept53 thu 2Mar54USAR 4th Army; 18389060 Grade at disc.USAR, CPL.

3Mar54 thu 2Jul USA s/n18389060 rank CPL; United States Army (USA) Ft Bliss Texas assn. temp dty (unknown).

6Jul54-No Record of Disc. tnsf. Texas 4th Army Res, Dallas Love Field, Dallas Texas. Co C156Tk Bn.CO Capt. assn 'Specialized operations, Intel: Commanding officers; Capt. Gilbert B Cook; Texas National Guard: 2ndLt. Charles R Brannon, Arty; Ft. Bliss, Texas, (RTC); Capt. Edward G Seiwell, Fourth Army Reserves, Dallas, Texas; MOS: WR Plumlee 1795, 3795 Tank Crew man Tk Commander, Sherman Tank. Cpl. Plumlee USA MOS 'Unknown'; Unknown sta. Ft. Bliss, Texas; Fort Hood,Texas, National Guard; Unknown.

Texas National Guard; Texas Fourth Army Reserve; Certified Copy of Available Documents By; XXX referenced doc loc. "on file".

Medical reports: Personnel Records Center, St Louis, MO.

This question was asked over a year ago. Perhaps someone has uncovered new information on a few of these operatives recently:

Does anyone know anything about this "Special" unit that came from Fort Bliss, Texas, Logan Heights, in 1954 known as a RTC D8 "REDBIRD ONE" ? This unit was later, attached to the Texas National Guard 49th Armord Division based at Dallas Love Field.

This unit was later assigned to the Fourth Army Reserve into an INTEL unit at Dallas's Love Field. The Commanding officer for this small group was Captain Edward G Seiwell, previous OSS WWII who worked with Wm. Harvey and 'Wild Bill' Donovan before the CIA was formed. This unit was sometimes called, "The Praetorian Guard" a specialized operational force attatched to the Pentagon, which later received training at 'The School of The Americas in GA..

Any background information would be appreciated. Tosh Plumlee

--------------------

Biography: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1874

Tosh, you have come under a lot of attack from Gerry Hemming about your past. I thoought it might be a good idea to start a thread where you could post a timeline of your past activities. I have asked Gerry to do the same but so far he seems reluctant to do so.

Yes John; I will be happy to post a"Time Line". I think it is a good idea in view of what all has transpired these past few months. I will have it ready for forum members and posting within the next few days.

I have to go out of town on business for about two, perhaps three days. I will have it ready for all to see upon my return. Thanks for the invitation. Tosh Plumlee

I have recently been informed that two files held by the CIA and the United States Senate have been released. (or in process of being released: (#104- 10406 & 124-90033-10059) About a year ago and again last December, I posted a reference to John Martino and Wm Pawley and other details about a 'classified CIA operation. Parts of this information can be found in the following link.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2401

I was told by Jay Harrison, in August of 2004, that Marry Ferrel, before she died, had a few of these file numbers which she had obtained a few years ago from an "inside source". However, I was told that the actual CIA references and files were classified at that time and the details were still classified as late as last October, 2005.

The named operation of the Pawley/Martino "Flying Tiger" affair (TILT) was first given to the Miami CIA Station (not JM/WAVE) in 1963 as a cutout code name.

In August of 1991 that information was confirmed in close door session by the CIA to members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The name was a "cut-out" name and inter office CIA memos and dispatches referred to the whole operation as "REDCROSS" the 'cut-out name was used as a "LOCK" (Reference Porter Gross DCIA September 2005. Reference Senator John Kerry. Reference Dick Mc Call Senate Staff, 1991; Reference John Winer, Senate Staff. Congressman Rangley' investigative personal (sp pho? 1987)

Reference a "LOCK" a fictious name; a means to identify a leak from an inside source or a suspected double agent.

The name is put out in the main stream by an AGENT to an Operative and when the name comes back to the AGENT or Operative from an "outside" source as factual, then the informant who received the name or the one who used the planted code name and passed it on is revealed and the leak as to classified information is found .

Reference: (Operational Proceedures and Methods; CIA training Handbook for Agents, Operatives and military OMC personal. 1962)

Document References; "....Plumlee an associate of John Martino...aka William H Pearson.." Reference; FBI 302's and 104's; CIA 124's and 202's (portions remain classified as of this date)

Tosh

-

Nathan I would be very careful about accepting anything in "A Farewell to Justice" as historical truth.

You state that Mellen "argues that this Special Group to kill Castro was "turned" by the CIA to kill Kennedy. Because the New Orleans ground level of the Special Group had such direct contact with Bobby Kennedy, the AG was turned into his brother's killers' keeper."

What is her proof of this?

It is nil.

------------------------------

GPH's Posting:

I worked and flew with Adler Berriman Seal for many years. Also, I spent far too many hours on the telephone with Hopsicker (while he was shacked up with "Berry's widow) and he quotes me in his phony book.

Seal always signed off as "Berry", NOT Barry. There was NEVER an airport at LaCombe, LA, not even a private "grass strip" such as those used by crop-dusters. The nearest airport is at Slidell, some 13 miles distant towards the northeast. The next one is to the northwest at Mandeville, and almost 20 miles distant.

There was never a training camp at LaCombe, LA -- nor at Hammond, LA, -- nor at N.A.F. (LTA) Houma, LA , because the McLaney operation (involving Rich Lauchli, "Papucho" Espinoza, Herman Koch Gene, et al.) was a "Honey-Trap Op" to give the Cuban DGI Agents "handling" Ricardo Davis, Nico Crespi, and Oswald further bona fides that they were pro-Castro, and snitching out "Gusano" training/raider camps and operations.

NONE existed since we were there during early 1962, and so they had to be created out of thin air. When Paulino Sierra came down from Chicago with "Big Buck$", Sanchez Arango's AAA put on a phony show at the now defunct No Name Key site. Batista Falla (M.D.C.) wanted to sucker out some Sierra money, so he sent some clowns to Hammond, in tan/khaki uniforms but no guns. Laureano planned to sucker Sierra by making a deal with Guatemalen Roberto Alejos, who told him that any Cubans coming into Guatemala would have to chop wood, after they got work permits.

When the dumbass "Gusanos" discovered this farce, they immediately returned to Miami, went back to Flagler Surplus (W. Flagler & 17th Ave.) and traded in the khakis for 25 cents on the dollar !! Not to be outdone, Laureano had his guys grab Fernando Fernandez as a "Castro Spy". Because Fernandez was a real "Dangle', this blew a genuine penetration Op.

So, as we told Oliver Stone: We will build you a "Training Camp" (at Jean laFitte, LA); but the whole Garrison spiel on a Ponchartrain Camp is complete bullxxxx. It was Mike mcLaney doing a favor for RFK. Lauchli bitched about it later, after he had served his 2nd prison term -- and wanted to know why this whole sham went down? Especially since he had NEVER built the bomb fuses at his shop in Collinsville, Illinois.

Sorry folks, NO camps, no LHO & Ferrie, Russo, Novel, et al. -- just a pervert doing his duty for Marcello !!

__________________________

Reply from Plumlee:

GPH You and your other "Friend" out there are lying SOB's. Where in the hell is your PROOF. You word is TRASH... YOUR LIFE IS TRASH. I do not give a damn how you trash me. It is expected from the likes of you. I am alive and I know your phoney BS stories. You are a SICK SICK man.. But when you trash DEAD MEN and put words in their mouths when they or their families can no longer defend themselves is about as low life as one can get. Go to Hell where you belong and take your bullxxxx with you.

John: How much longer is this GPH going to be allowed to post his BS and slander people. Where is his proof and backup documentation for the things he says. How much longer are Forum members going to have to put up with this confirmed BS artist. When is enough enough?

I will not address this xxxxx and LOW LIFE Bull xxxxter. He can say and do what he wants toward me. He knows I know his BS. That's why he has to defuse me. I'm not dead yet

!. He never flew with Seal. In fact he never knew Seal or any of that bunch.

2. Seals wife never screwed around with Hopsicker. Because the Seal family knew GPH's BS and his attempts inserting himself into the Seal story, is the real reason he has to discredit the Seal family

3. The whole story and GPH's recap posted is BS.

ON and ON with name dropping and name calling. I have had enough.

I was there and I was active. And I have submitted proof of the things I have said and done. The Senate of the United States has confirmed many of the details. The Gary Hart letter and the associated names found on the MILITARY INTEL MAP,( of which GPH calls a" road map" )with the names written on it long before the facts of the Contra matter (1983) came to light, are just a small part of the proof of the things I have posted on your forum. I have worked under many different operative names in my thirty plus years in MI operations and I do know how and why the ones I was associated with worked the way they did.

I have posted key information for the sake of research and truth. I DO NOT know how, who, or why these ops came to pass, but I do know where I was and when and why and who was with me.. To be discredited by the likes of this clown to cover for his lies I guess should be an honor, but I want nothing to do with this xxxxx.. He has to attack me and others in order for his BULLxxxx to stand. It is a must that we must be discredited in order for his bullxxxx to stand unchallenged.

This A-H is allowed to spout off with nothing to back up what he says and then to top it off slanders the widows of dead men and refuses to prove she slept with Hopsicker and slanders others who try to establish the true record. He uses "DEAD PEOPLE" to prove what he says. And we are to take him at face value because HE will get offended?. What a crock of BS.

I will no longer read this forum or be a part of it because of these outright lies of Hemming and others and their disinformation presented as FACTS; unchallenged. As I have said before HE HAS and IS DOING MORE DAMAGE TO TRUE RESEARCH than any dis information expert could possibly do to this new young generation of truth seekers.

This man, or trash, will not even address you and your request for a time line and other important information you and others request of him. Because of this your forum, in my eyes has become a third rate of no value toward real research.

I request you remove my membership from your site. I will not be a part to this type of slander and dis information from the likes of this GPH and his cronies..

tosh plumlee. (END OF POSTINGS)

Shackley told Bush that Carter was attempting to negotiate a deal with Iran to get the American hostages released. This was disastrous news for the Reagan/Bush campaign. If Carter got the hostages out before the election, the public perception of the man might change and he might be elected for a second-term.

According to Barbara Honegger, a researcher and policy analyst with the 1980 Reagan/Bush campaign, William Casey and other representatives of the Reagan presidential campaign made a deal at two sets of meetings in July and August at the Ritz Hotel in Madrid with Iranians to delay the release of Americans held hostage in Iran until after the November 1980 presidential elections.

I wasn't aware of this part of the story. Is there evidence that Shackley told Bush what was up? My understanding was that it was Robert MacFarlane who sold out Carter, much as it was Henry Kissinger who sold out Johnson in 68.

When information about the Iran-Contra scandal first emerged in 1986, both Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush were in serious trouble. The fact that it happened could not be denied. The issue then became very similar to Watergate: “What did he know, and when did he know it.” Reagan’s story was that he was kept in the dark about the whole event. The American public went along with this story. Some commentators believe this was psychological. Democracy would have been completely undermined if it had been confirmed that two presidents in a short period of time had been involved in illegal activities and had lied about it.

Bush was another matter. He was only the vice president and it would not be traumatic for the country to see him impeached. For example, remember the response when Spiro Agnew was forced to resign? Bush was also more likely candidate than Regan to have come up with this idea. Bush had been a former director of the CIA, an organization that had been heavily involved in the scandal. Questions were asked about whether Bush was the man who had organized the Iran-Contra deal. If so, he would have had to have worked very closely with the CIA. Journalists therefore investigated Bush’s relationship with the CIA. They discovered that throughout 1980 he had been having regular meetings with Ted Shackley.

A former senior CIA officer, John Murray, suggested that Shackley had some sort of control over Bush. He suspected it was something to do with illegal covert activities that had been carried out when Bush was director of the CIA. (pages 317-318, David Corn, Blind Ghost)

Shackley also had a deep hatred for Jimmy Carter. He told friends that if Ford defeated Carter in 1976, he would be appointed as director of the CIA. Instead of that, Carter won and blocked him from further promotion and he was forced to retire from the service in 1979.

Journalist discovered that Shackley and Bush continued to have a close relationship after he left the agency in 1979. They met on a regular basis during Bush’s attempts to become the Republican presidential candidate. (His wife, Hazel Shackley, even worked for Bush during this period).

In March, 1980, a CIA asset, Michael Ledeen, wrote an article suggesting that Stansfield Turner had been mismanaging the CIA and that if Bush won in November, Shackley would become the new head of the agency (New York Magazine, 3rd March, 1980).

In August, 1980, Reagan selected Bush as his running-mate. Shackley’s meetings with Bush now became more frequent. In an interview with David Corn, Chi Chi Quintero told him that during the campaign, Bush was meeting Shackley “every week” (page 358, David Corn, Blind Ghost).

In October, 1980, Shackley joined the company owned by Albert Hakim (he was paid $5,000 a month as a part-time “risk analyst”). It seems that Hakim was keen to use Shackley’s contacts to make money out of the Iran-Iraq War that had started the previous month. This just happens to be the same time that William Casey and other representatives of the Reagan presidential campaign are having meetings with the Iranians in order to delay the release of Americans held hostage in Iran until after the November 1980 presidential elections.

Is it also a coincidence that later Hakim joined forces with Richard Secord and Thomas Clines (Shackley’s former deputy in the CIA) to provide Iran with the weapons as a result of Reagan winning the 1980 presidential election?

Just before the election Michael Ledeen wrote an article claiming that Billy Carter, the President’s brother, had visited Libya in 1979 and accepted from the Qaddafi government a $50,000 payment and a $220,000 loan related to an oil deal (New Republic, 1st November, 1980). It was later revealed that at this time Shackley and Ledeen had become business partners. The story also appears to have come from one of Shackley’s old contacts, Giuseppe Santovito, head of SISMI, the military intelligence service of Italy. It is also at this time that Ledeen arranges for $20,000 to be placed in Shackley’s bank account in Bermuda (page 359, David Corn, Blind Ghost)

It was clear that if Bush was going to survive he had to try to disguise his relationship with Shackley. In fact, to really protect himself, he had to make sure that Shackley was not identified as one of the main organizers of the Iran-Contra deal.

Both the House and Senate set up select committees to investigate the Iran-Contra affair. At first Shackley was seen as a prime suspect. He was a colleague and business partner to the main operators. He had been closely linked to Edwin Wilson (the main reason why Stansfield Turner had brought his career in the CIA to an end). Also, along with Secord, Clines and Quintero, Shackley had been involved in the Nugan Hand Bank scandal (Alfred McCord, The Politics of Heroin: pages 461-478 and Leslie Cockburn, Out of Control, pages 103-104).

Bush was also identified as someone who must have known about the Iran-Contra deal. There was documentary evidence that Bush attended the meeting on 6th August, 1985, when National Security Advisor Robert McFarlane outlined the deal to trade U.S. arms for American hostages held by the Iranians.

Bush also attended the meeting on 7th January, 1986, where George Shultz and Casper Weinberger expressed their opposition to the deal signed the previous day by Reagan to sell TOW missiles in order to win the release of the American hostages.

When asked how he did not know about the Iran deal, Bush claimed: “I may have been out of the room at the time” (page 14, Joel Bainerman, The Crimes of a President).

There was also documentary evidence that Bush attended a meeting with Amiram Nir, Israel’s advisor on terrorism at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 29th July, 1986. Also at the meeting was Bush’s aide, Craig Fuller. He kept notes of the meeting. He reported that Nir told Bush that he had been active throughout the past year “to gain the release of the hostages, and that a decision still had to be made whether the arms desired by the Iranians would be delivered in separate shipments or for each hostage as they are released.” Bush and Reagan did what they could to stop this document being sent to the John Tower investigation. Bush’s first defence was that he could not remember the meeting at King David Hotel. Later, he admitted he did remember it but did not understand what Nir was saying. Amazingly, the Tower Commission believed him.

In a PBS Frontline documentary, Ramon Milian Rodriguez, a convicted financier for the Meddellin drug cartel, talked about Felix Rodriguez’s role in the CIA involvement in the drug trade: “If Felix had come to me and said I’m reporting to… Oliver North, I might have been more sceptical. I didn’t know who Oliver North was and I didn’t know his background. But if you have a CIA, or what you consider to be a CIA-man, coming to you saying, ‘I want to fight the war, we’re out of funds, can you help us out? I’m reporting directly to Bush on it,’ I mean it’s very real, very believable, have you have a CIA guy reporting to his old boss.”

According to one report, the first telephone call that Eugene Hasenfus made after his plane was shot down was to Bush’s staff (The Progressive, May, 1987).

Then there was the handwritten note from November from George Bush to Oliver North that thanked him for his “dedication and tireless work with the hostage thing with Central America”. When asked about this note, Bush said “he didn’t recall why he sent it”. As Joel Bainerman pointed: “Why can a doctor be sued for malpractice of his profession but a national leader can just say he forgot, and no further investigation is required” (page 22, The Crimes of a President).

One person whose name appeared on several documents concerning the Iran-Contra affair was Donald Gregg, Bush’s National Security Adviser. Gregg had also been the CIA liaison to the Otis Pike committee. He was a man who Bush believed could keep secrets.

In 1985, Gregg sent Felix Rodriguez (a member of Shackley’s Secret Team) to El Salvador to aid the Contra re-supply effort. General Paul Gorman, the head of U.S. military forces in Central America, wrote a memo to the U.S. ambassador in El Salvador. In it he said: “”Rodriquez is operating as a private citizen but his acquaintanceship to the VP (Bush) is real enough, going back to the latter days of DCI (Director of the CIA)” (The Progressive, March, 1989).

The problem for Bush is that too many people knew about his relationship with Felix Rodriquez (Leslie Cockburn, Out of Control, page 224). Bush was eventually forced to admit that along with Gregg he had met with Felix Rodriguez three times. However, he argued that he had not discussed Nicaragua with him (CBS 60 Minutes, March, 1987). He also defended Gregg’s decision to deny these meetings with Rodriguez. According to Bush, Gregg had not lied, he merely “forgot” about these meetings.

At the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Narcotics, Terrorism and International Operations, headed by John Kerry, Richard Brenneke, a CIA operative, claimed that Donald Gregg was the Washington contact for a complicated arms/drugs deal that was part of the Iran-Contra operation. This story was leaked to Newsweek magazine. Bush responded to the story by claiming that it was Kerry who had leaked these “slanderous allegations” to the magazine. Bush added that “this guy whom they are quoting is the guy who is trying to save his own neck” (The Washington Post, 17th May, 1988). This is indeed ridiculous because Brenneke had not been charged with any offence.

Bush’s story eventually became that Gregg was working on his own initiative and that he was unaware of his role in the Iran-Contra affair.

The links between Bush and Shackley failed to go away. The role of Felix Rodriguez was particularly embarrassing as it provided another association with Shackley. The same was true of Chi Chi Quintero, Thomas Clines and Luis Posada. All four men had worked for Shackley since the early 1960s. They had also been active covert operators when Shackley was taking orders from George Bush during the period when he had been director of the CIA. (Leslie Cockburn, Out of Control, pages 121-122, 181-83)

It was reported in the Miami Herald that two men, one an arms dealer and the other a security consultant, had been working for Dr. Mario Castejon, a politician from Guatemala. They told the reporters that Shackley was used as a channel to the Agency regarding the Contra-Iran deals (The Miami Herald, 26th March, 1987).

Shackley denied the story. Congressional investigators did not believe him and sent him a subpoena requesting all documents he had related to various companies and individuals. It was during this period that evidence emerged that Shackley had met General Manucher Hashemi, the former head of SAVAK’s counterintelligence division, and Manuchehr Ghorbanifar, at the Atlantic Hotel in Hamburg, on 22nd November, 1985. Shackley had no option to admit to this meeting.

Cameron Holmes, the lead investigator, was convinced that Shackley was deeply involved in the Iran-Contra scandal. As he explained when he was interviewed by David Corn: “How could Shackley be the one person in this mob unaware of what was going on? Why was he so insistent he had not picked up a single whiff of the Contra operation or the Iran initiative? There was no crime in knowing. Shackley proclaimed his ignorance too much.” (page 390, David Corn, Blind Ghost).

Holmes was shocked when special counsel Lawrence Walsh decided not to pursue Shackley. He was not even called as a witness. Walsh did not even take Shackley’s deposition until after Congress had finished its hearings on the affair.

However, Thomas Clines told David Corn in 1992 that in 1985 he was purchasing arms for the Contras in Lisbon when he had a call from Richard Secord. He told him that Shackley had suggested that he knew a better arms dealer in Lisbon than the one Clines was using (page 391, David Corn, Blind Ghost). This confirms that Shackley played a role in the Iran-Contra affair. As did Bush. I suspect that it was a leading role but they knew that as long as they stuck together, they would survive. The only possible problem was that their underlings would give evidence against them if they were brought to trial. Thanks to Lawrence Walsh and the George Bush pardons, this never happened.

From previous above:

"... At the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Narcotics, Terrorism and International Operations, headed by John Kerry, Richard Brenneke, a CIA operative, claimed that Donald Gregg was the Washington contact for a complicated arms/drugs deal that was part of the Iran-Contra operation. This story was leaked to Newsweek magazine. Bush responded to the story by claiming that it was Kerry who had leaked these “slanderous allegations” to the magazine. Bush added that “this guy whom they are quoting is the guy who is trying to save his own neck” (The Washington Post, 17th May, 1988). This is indeed ridiculous because Brenneke had not been charged with any offence. ..".

John. I think it is importante to note during this time frame Senator Gary Hart and other Senators and Congressmen were trying to get the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to investigate many reports that had came from Undercover Operatives long before matters had rose to this level. The first report to the Senate was in 1983 and others in 1984, 85, 86, and 1988. In all cases these investigations were blocked by the Regan/Bush White House and the CIA on grounds of "National Security", and exposing "ongoing operations', thus harming the undercover operations..., or harming these specialized White House operations controled by the NSC without knowledge of the Senate or Congress.

More than one military UC operative, CIA, and DEA, reported this specialized White House Operation to proper authorites. In Fact, I talked with Ty West and Leslie Cockburn about this matter in 1985 as well as Senator Hart in 1983. (ref; Out of Control, as well as 60 Min; see letter from Senator Hart ref; 1983-86 operations)

For whatever reasons the Senate and the Congress did not want to address these matters even tho they had received documented reports dating as far back as 1981 concerning specialized operations being secretely conducted by the White House and the NSC.. I think this is an important point to keep in mind.

Many people put their lives and carrers on the line in their early contacts with government oversight committees concerning "Top Secret" matters of the time. (ref; Senator Harts letter has recently been posted on this forum)

Tosh

["..... Why would JM/WAVE be brought in, even as an abort capability, unless there was a strong Cuban connection. If the Harlendale/Beckley Cubans were involved in gunrunning and perhaps Armory thefts, how would that have connected to JM/WAVE and Roselli? I've begun to consider that an abort mission from Florida makes sense in the context of aborting a compromised Northwoods attempt, especially given Jackie's short-noticed presence. This would explain why a special MI unit, perhaps operating specially on behalf of one of Bobby's subgroups, would be used rather than the SS or FBI.

T.C.

Perhaps it was because of the West Palm Beach matter that caused the MI to be dispatched. This information was passed to Miami's Wave station and considering all the other information they had received, example: gun running, fund raising, and other activities including the intel from Dallas Army intel matters concerning Cuban activities in and around Dallas and surrounding areas, a team was dispatched from Florida, thinking a hit was going to be made by elements within military or CIA. Perhaps it was just a coincidence that Intel walked blindly into the Texas matter thinking the pending hit on the President was an inside job and had to be covered-up at all cost because of the possible elements within that would appear to the public to be government connections.

Also consider that perhaps there were other matters developing within the Intel community, which LBJ would be aware of. Perhaps this was the "Piggyback" as well as the "Northwoods. Perhaps that was a "shift in blame" to cover the Texas plot. Considering the mob and the Cubans attitude toward Kennedy and the Military Industrial Complex's attitude in general toward Kennedy's policies at the time could lead one to think elements within were responsible and also elements within, "a war within a war" was going to abort what appeared to be a sanctioned hit on the President, which would have to be covert. Remember this was not the first time teams had been dispatched or alerted that a hit was going to be made on Kennedy. And too remember that "KEY" information as to some of the mechanics of the gathered intel by the FBI were withheld by Hoover from the Pentagon, Bobby, and JFK. Again speculation.

Who really assassinated (executed) JFK? LBJ all the way! Why? JFK found out about political murders in Texas, which were best left in Texas. In order to understand the JFK assassination you have to understand Texas politics of the time. Texas was a nation unto itself. It created its own laws. It worked its own Justice system. "If you Play with Texas-You Pay in Dallas...." From 1945 until 1963 Texas walked a very thin line between right and wrong; justice and injustice; some fell off the ballot box and others were stuffed in. You don't mess with Texas. "... JFK needed another Parade like he needed a hole in the head...." (A Texas political Joke of 1964)

Texas used to be a "nation unto itself." Now it's taken over the whole shooting match (pun intended).

The reason that there is so much convolution is that one of the operations, planned from D.C., was an assassination "attempt" which would either discredit Dallas' extreme right wing or be presented as a Castro assassination "attempt" which would accomplish the goals set forth in Operation Northwoods. Johnny Roselli's abort team, rather than preventing a risky political demonstration, apparently piggy-backed onto it and turned it into an actual assassination. By definition, those implicated in the earlier Northwoods-type operation would have appeared guilty of a far more serious crime than they ever imagined - most especially Oswald - thereby generating such a widespread cover-up.

We know that word had leaked from a November 4, 1963 interoffice memo from Hunt Oil security chief Paul Rothermel to H.L. Hunt that there were "unconfirmed reports of possible violence during the parade." There was information from Dallas police and FBI informants that General Walker's right-wing political group on the campus of North Texas State University was "planning an incident." But Rothermel wrote, "There is another report from a left-wing group that an incident will occur with the knowledge of the President whereby the left-wingers will start the incident in hopes of dragging in any of the right side groups or individuals nearby and then withdrawing.... If an incident were to occur, the true story of who perpetrated it would never come out."

If there was a White House operation that was piggy-backed and turned into an assassination, one can imagine the hesitancy of the SS, the deviations from standard security procedures and the need for so high a level of cover-up, including by RFK. Oswald purchased the rifle in an unnecessarily traceable manner and left it in place for someone to take a few stray shots with the Carcano while he waited by the phone for a call that never came. Alternatively, Oswald did fire the Carcano three times, one shot hitting the asphalt straight below him and one shot hitting the curb that caused Tague's injury. It's very possible that numerous people knew of an operation, but were shocked that the president was killed, as David Phillips later wrote.

I know elements within the federal government knew it was going to happen (FBI for one) and as a result of that information a military styled Covert Action Group attatched with CIA support was sent to try and stop it.

It has always seemed odd to me that an abort team would be sent to try to stop the assassination, instead of the White House being informed that there was a plot and that the trip should therefore be aborted. The Chicago trip was aborted for this very reason. Why didn't they just keep JFK out of Dallas, or at least out of a motorcade (as they did on the Miami trip)?

The way I understand it was the information was late in getting to the right people at the White House, namely the Secret Service. The information was at first very vague and had been received from parties in Miami after they had been picked up (detained) by the FBI attempting to fire a "Bazooka" on Air Force One at West Palm Beach airport (time frame about Nov 17 I think).... The abort team was put together very fast and was not very organized, as I have stated in the past. MI seemed to be the main contact as well as sections within the CIA that formed the team, TFW Sec-C, and dispatched the team to Dallas. I think after the assassination the government had a real problem if the information they had received before the hit had been made public at the time or released shortly after. Oswald was UC for MI (OMC section 235) and was an FBI informant and had infiltrated the Dallas Cubans and their network. His "cut-out" was the Dallas PD....

The question I have about Tosh's LBJ/Texas post is how the Dealey Plaza plan related to the Miami events just days earlier. If it was a well-thought-out Texas plot, intended to take place in Texas, how would knowledge of it be derived from the anti-Castro detainees in Palm Beach, and why would there be a JM/WAVE connection? Can anyone confirm whether there were any official arrests made relating to the Palm Beach Airport on November 17, 1963?

Regarding Texas, one of the long-discussed issues has been JFK's purpose in making the trip. While the feuding within the Texas Democratic Party has always been considered a strong factor, some Kennedy loyalists have insisted that it was the opening salvo of the 1964 campaign, pure and simple. But it was that very intramural feud which had Kennedy working on the motorcade seating arrangements right up until the landing at Love Field. It's also strongly suggested by Manchester that the heated exchange between JFK and LBJ behind a closed door at the Hotel Texas was over this same issue. As Tip O'Neill said: "All politics is local."

T.C.

The West Palm Beech attempt was little more than a unorganized attempt. It was not a planned attempt by any government doings. However, statements made at the time caused alarm that there was an organized attempt being planned by elements within Cuba. I don't think the Bazooka attempt was any way connected with events in Miami. I believe we had two different activities going on, but only one was a real covert plan, and that was in Texas.

There were many reports that Kennedy was going to be hit. Some from the Mob... some from the Cubans.., and some from private citizens scattered across the U.S.. However the Texas plot was the one that was well planned in advance. It would be easy to shift blame to the Cubans and the mafia, even to the Dallas Cubans. Mi-Intel had very little factual information to work with and the CIA had less and they too first looked at the Cubans and then at elements within the Mafia.

Perhaps, some of this information from Dallas and all the gun running and fund raising going on through there caused them to think of a planned organized hit and it being planned by individuals within the CIA and parts of MI. A war within a war.. two factions within the same departments and agencies, including the FBI. However, this is all speculation.

As time and information and what documentation has come forward in the past few years, even I have re thought and speculated upon the chain of events and looked deeper into the motives and who would gain the most. Texas has become my prim focus as to the answers and all other matters a pattern of which over time have led into 'what if' type speculations.

I could say the Clan did it or the coal miners of PA... but that too would be speculation on my part and carry as much weight as some of the other ideas being has thrown around at this late date. There would be no way I would know anything about the actual planning wherever it was planned. CIA, Mafia, Texas, or Cuba.

I like many saw it happen and ran.

Tosh,

That sounds pretty much in line with the words of Billie Sol Estes that I've quoted before, from his book Estes: A Living Legend, pp. 141-142:

"The real story behind the assassination is just plain simple. Nothing elaborate, just a country turkey shoot with some country boys doing the shooting. The fact is President Kennedy did not understand Texas and its business ways. Even today, if I want to make sure something happens, I invite the people to meet me in my county. If things do not work out, I have them arrested. Pretty soon, they see things my way. Kennedy should never have come to Texas. He knew a majority of Texans hated him but he just did not realize the danger. He was a member of the intellectual elite and pretentious. He did not realize that LBJ and his friends intended to kill him."

Ron

Yes Ron. Sounds very much like some of the things Billy Sol said under oath.

I think the following should be considered by any serious researcher. (ref" Spartacus search)

"... LETTER #2 - FROM DOUGLAS CADDY:

August 9, 1984

Mr. Stephen S. Trott

Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division

U.S. Department of Justice

Washington, D. C. 20530

RE: Mr. Billie Sol Estes

Dear Mr. Trott:

My client, Mr. Estes, has authorized me to make this reply to your letter of May 29, 1984. Mr. Estes was a member of a four-member group, headed by Lyndon Johnson, which committed criminal acts in Texas in the 1960's. The other two, besides Mr. Estes and LBJ, were Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace. Mr. Estes is willing to disclose his knowledge concerning the following criminal offenses:

I. Murders

1. The killing of Henry Marshall

2. The killing of George Krutilek

3. The killing of Ike Rogers and his secretary

4. The killing of Harold Orr

5. The killing of Coleman Wade

6. The killing of Josefa Johnson

7. The killing of John Kinser

8. The killing of President J. F. Kennedy.

Mr. Estes is willing to testify that LBJ ordered these killings, and that he transmitted his orders through Cliff Carter to Mac Wallace, who executed the murders. In the cases of murders nos. 1-7, Mr. Estes' knowledge of the precise details concerning the way the murders were executed stems from conversations he had shortly after each event with Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace.

In addition, a short time after Mr. Estes was released from prison in 1971, he met with Cliff Carter and they reminisced about what had occurred in the past, including the murders. During their conversation, Carter orally compiled a list of 17 murders which had been committed, some of which Mr. Estes was unfamiliar. A living witness was present at that meeting and should be willing to testify about it. He is Kyle Brown, recently of Houston and now living in Brady, Texas.

Mr. Estes, states that Mac Wallace, whom he describes as a "stone killer" with a communist background, recruited Jack Ruby, who in turn recruited Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. Estes says that Cliff Carter told him that Mac Wallace fired a shot from the grassy knoll in Dallas, which hit JFK from the front during the assassination.

Mr. Estes declares that Cliff Carter told him the day Kennedy was killed, Fidel Castro also was supposed to be assassinated and that Robert Kennedy, awaiting word of Castro's death, instead received news of his brother's killing.

Mr. Estes says that the Mafia did not participate in the Kennedy assassination but that itparticipation was discussed prior to the event, but rejected by LBJ, who believed if the Mafia were involved, he would never be out from under its blackmail.

Mr. Estes asserts that Mr. Ronnie Clark, of Wichita, Kansas, has attempted on several occasions to engage him in conversation. Mr. Clark, who is a frequent visitor to Las Vegas, has indicated in these conversations a detailed knowledge corresponding to Mr. Estes' knowledge of the JFK assassination. Mr. Clark claims to have met with Mr. Jack Ruby a few days prior to the assassination, at which time Kennedy's planned murder was discussed.

Mr. Estes declares that discussions were had with Jimmy Hoffa concerning having his aide, Larry Cabell, kill Robert Kennedy while the latter drove around in his convertible.

Mr. Estes has records of his phone calls during the relevant years to key persons mentioned in the foregoing account.

II. The Illegal Cotton Allotments

Mr. Estes desires to discuss the infamous illegal cotten allotment schemes in great detail. He has recordings made at the time of LBJ, Cliff Carter and himself discussing the scheme. These recordings were made with Cliff Carter's knowledge as a means of Carter and Estes protecting them selves should LBJ order their deaths.

Mr. Estes believes these tape recordings and the rumors of other recordings allegedly in his possession are the reason he has not been murdered.

III. Illegal Payoffs

Mr. Estes is willing to disclose illegal payoff schemes, in which he collected and passed on to Cliff Carter and LBJ millions of dollars. Mr. Estes collected payoff money on more than one occasion from George and Herman Brown of Brown and Root, which was delivered to LBJ.

In your letter of May 29, 1984, you request "(1) the information, including the extent of corroborative evidence, that Mr. Estes sources of his information, and (3) the extent of his involvement, if any, in each of those events or any subsequent cover-ups."

In connection with Item # 1, I wish to declare, as Mr. Estes' attorney, that Mr. Estes is prepared without reservation to provide all the information he has. Most of the information contained in this letter I obtained from him yesterday for the first time. While Mr. Estes has been pre-occupied by this knowledge almost every day for the last 22 years, it was not until we began talking yesterday that he could face up to disclosing it to another person. My impression from our conversation yesterday is that Mr. Estes, in the proper setting, will be able to recall and orally recount a criminal matters. It is also my impression that his interrogation in such a setting will elicit additional corroborative evidence as his memory is stimulated.

In connection with your Item #2, Mr. Estes has attempted in this letter to provide his sources of information.

In connection with your Item #3, Mr. Estes states that he never participated in any of the murders. It may be alleged that he participated in subsequent cover-ups. His response to this is that had he conducted himself any differently, he, too, would have been a murder victim.

Mr. Estes wishes to confirm that he will abide by the conditions set forth in your letter and that he plans to act with total honesty and candor in any dealings with the Department of Justice or any federal investigative agency.

In return for his cooperation, Mr. Estes wishes in exchange his being given immunity, his parole restrictions being lifted and favorable consideration being given to recommending his long-standing tax leins being removed and his obtaining a pardon.

Sincerely yours,

Douglas Caddy

Read the LATEST (4/20/98) DOCUMENTS!!... ...".

Local and national media reports:

"... Estes later claimed Johnson was involved in a conspiracy to murder witnesses in the Estes trial as part of a wider conspiracy related to the Kennedy assassination. In 1984 Estes' lawyer Douglas Caddy wrote to the Department of Justice claiming that Estes, Lyndon B. Johnson, Malcolm "Mac" Wallace and Cliff Carter had been involved in the murders of Henry Marshall, George Krutilek, Harold Orr, Ike Rogers and his secretary, Coleman Wade, the president's sister Josefa Johnson, John Kinser and John F. Kennedy. Caddy added, "Mr. Estes is willing to testify that LBJ ordered these killings, and that he transmitted his orders through Cliff Carter to Mac Wallace, who executed the murders. ...".

Until these matters are put to rest and the above information completely investigated as to its accuracy, I do not feel the focus on the Kennedy assassination should be place upon the 'Cubans, the CIA, or the Mafia'.

It seems strange to me that when someone gets to close to this Texas connection then they are discredited of labeled as "Crazies". We have to look at "Motive, Means, and Opportunity". You cannot exclude the above and incert theories about CIA, MI, Mafia, and Cubans as the killers of JFK. Why do you think it has been so easy to publish 'CIA, Military, Mob, and Cubans as the killers of JFK? Because that is your "Smoke and Mirrors". and too, that is your 'cover up'. This investigation is still being controled by the Powers that Be and will stay that way until all of us are dead and gone...some of us sooner than others.

-

Its a very simple case when you assemble all the nuts and bolts and take your head out of the sand. It is a case which is much more than "Prepondence of the Evidence". When properly evaluated the JFK assassination becomes an overwhelming conviction toward LBJ and his "Fat Cats" as some call for flavor "The Texas Mafia".

William Plumlee

Who really assassinated (executed) JFK?

LBJ all the way!

Why? JFK found out about political murders in Texas, which were best left in Texas.

In order to understand the JFK assassination you have to understand Texas politics of the time. Texas was a nation unto itself. It created its own laws. It worked its own Justice system.

"If you Play with Texas-You Pay in Dallas. ..".

From 1945 until 1963 Texas walked a very thin line between right and wrong; justice and injustice; some fell off the ballot box and others were stuffed in. You don't mess with Texas.

"... JFK needed another Parade like he needed a hole in the head. ..". (A Texas political Joke of 1964)

Miguel Casas Saez - Cuban in Dallas - Of Possible interest 'GPFLOOR'(which is a CIA acronym for documents pertaining to the Kennedy assassination)

WAVE-93

A G-2, and D.T.I.Agent (DGI error?) allegedly in Dallas on 11/22/63, it is difficult to ascertain how 'all of this fits in the big picture.' It is said he was trained in the Russian language, left Cuba on Sept 26th came to US (allegedly on a mission of 'infiltration to sabotage and report on your plans there') illegally under the fictictous name of 'Angel' Dominguez Hernandez. Was sighted in Miami attempting to obtain a boat and then it is difficult to tell what happened. An intel source states he was back in Cuba on Nov. 18, he was also allegedly in New York and seen again in Miami on October 31; Saez's aunt however says that 'Miguelito' was in Dallas when Kennedy was assassinated. He is ostensibly one of Raul Castro's men 'and is very brave, very brave.' He is said to have left Dallas with two other men, and came back with a lot of money.

Other names mentioned are Wilfredo Ruissch and Jose Blancos Matias Hernandez

The document is new to me, but I am sure someone on the Forum is familiar with Saez, anybody?

Documents cite some AMOT Report's;

CC-409 Nov. 5, 1963

CC-412 Nov 15, 1963

EE--774 Nov 29, 1963

See

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=255661

fr Plumlee 12-23-05 reference previous post Dallas Cubans:

"... Oct 28 2004, 11:19 PM Post #15

Advanced Member

Group: Members

Posts: 333

Joined: 11-October 04

Member No.: 1680

QUOTE(James Richards @ Oct 28 2004, 11:10 PM)

Looks like a person who hung around 'Sloppy Joes" and Bay Front Park about 1962. I think the picture was from around 1970. Do you know who he is. (Tosh Plumlee)

Tosh,

I have no idea who he is. He pops up in another photo with Alpha 66 heavyweight Diego Medina and I believe he bears a strong similarity to Oswald associate Celso Hernandez.

James

fm plumlee:

Would that be the Hernandez of the Dallas Oak Cliff Cubans who had the safe house on Zangs Blvd and Harlendale Streets? The gun-running Hernandez, also known as Cecil Farnandez?

note 12-23-05

: Cecil Farnandez (FBIref; was an associate of Barnard Torros (?sp and memory) Farnandez (Miguel Saez, FBI ref;) work for a short while at Dallas Aero Service, Dallas Love Field around 1962-63. (not sure of this date)

He received some guns from San Marcos that had been stolden from a military stockpile. ...where I do not know. These guns were taken by him and others to the La Barr training and stagging area near Bayou Buff LA and then on to Alpha-66.

Medina was picked up in the Everglades near JM/WAVE's sceret base known as, "The Farm" by ATF agents but he was let go. (reference FBI 62 and 26 File Dallas FBI OO)

[]

quote from RJS

Pat,

I was in touch with a retired DEA agent a few years ago who essentially confirmed a story that had been making the rounds for several years. You recall the death of DEA agent Enrique "Kiki" Camarena in Mexico in 1985, said to have been murdered by Mexican drug lords. If I recall, 2 low level traffickers were convicted and sentenced to life in prison for Camarena's death. This former DEA guy said Camerena was murdered by the CIA because he found out about an airfield in Mexico used by the CIA as a stopover from Central America to the US. As you know(and this forum's own Tosh Plumlee can confirm this I'm sure, as he made many of these flights), the CIA would fly weapons and supplies to Central America, and bring tons of cocaine back on the return flight. Barry Seal was also heavily involved in these operations(who was himself murdered outside New Orleans allegedly with a trunk full of documents proving ties to the CIA and GHWB). Tosh's closed session testimony to the Kerry Committee is still sealed as secret, related to national security.

In the early 90's, CIA officials went to Los Angeles and held a news conference to try to convince poor

black families that they had nothing to do with cocaine smuggling. It was big news. They were nearly run out of the city. And if is in fact true that John Kerry apologized to one of Operation 40's chief assassins(and personal friend of GHWB), it certainly changes my mind about that senator. But then again, it's all politics as usual isn't it?

RJS

Ref: Plumlee

".... DEA FILES INFORMATION:

DEAfiles.pdf DEA Mexico OPS: These documents make reference to "Guatemalan Guerrillas" training at a ranch owned by Drug Lord CARO- Quintero in Vera Crus, Mexico. It was reported at the time this was a CIA training site where weapons were exchanged for drugs in support of the Contra effort in Nicaragua and Costa Rico. DEA Agent Enrique Camarena (KIKI) and his pilot found out about this operation known as "The CIA Thing" and were killed because of this knowledge. Plumlee and other American undercover pilots had flown into this ranch many times as reported in various sections within these documents and other news media leaks in Mexico and America. The operation was known as "AMSOG" and, as reported to Senator Gary Hart and his Senate investigators in early 1983, was an "illegal" smuggling operation through Mexico into the United States, supported by the US Military, Panama Southern Command.

Ref: DEA Secret Class 2 documents investigators Susand Baldwin and Hector Berelliz DEA. Documents can be found at toshplumlee.info in PDF foremat.

Reference previous post of Oct 31, 04 "Professional Researchers and Investigators #14" answ to RJS

Wasn't the drug interdiction operation just a cover for smuggling cocaine back into the States? You said your team weren't cocaine smugglers, then you told Eye to Eye that you flew over 2000 keys of coke into El Toro. Can you resolve this?

RJS

Reply: 10/31/04

".... I'll try.

We had infiltrated known cartel flyways. That was our assignment. Infiltrate, also known as 'Operation Penatrate". After we infiltrated the Cartel's Drug Routes, (undercover) through Mexico we brought our loads to various staging area in the United States and unloaded to be taken to "evidence storage" for what we thought were to be classified as "interdiction". It was later learned that some were saying the cocain coming in was being taken from the staging areas and sold on open market to finance weapon purchases for the Cintra Resupply. So you can say "I was a drug runner for Uncle Sam" or "I flew drugs for Uncle Sam". However, some of our team members lost their lives documenting the fly ways into this country in order to stop the drug trasportation into this country.

I flew over thousands of Kilo's of cocain into this country that was involved in a sanction federal undercover operation. I was working an operation authorized by the Federal government. What and how things were done or not done and the reasons thereof, I would not know.. I was an 'Undercover pilot for the federal government. What they did with it I found out later and came forward out of chanells, so as to protect myself by releasing documented classified information before the fact and not after.

(Hence the meetings with Senator Gary Hart) I did not and do not approved of how this OPS became used by 'Special Interest" to fund the Contra.

So in that respect some could say, I was a cocain sumuggler, but far different from drug cartel members, who operated for profit and personal gain. Keep in mind.The recap was from CBS as to how they interupeted what I had said. Hope this helps to some degree.

I feel I blew the whistle on a few special interest personal who were running an illegal operation from within the WhiteHouse. Tosh...".

(2005) Reference:

Senate Foreign Relations Committee, John Kerry's report (1990) Letter from Senator Gary Hart to the Senate Arm Services Committee requesting an investigation into these matters. Portions of these Senate and Congressional investigations were classified top secret committee sensitive in 1991, and remain so today. The Central America Map, with handwritten notes as to established flyways and aircraft ID's. as well as the pilots names who flew these sorties, was also classified by committee. However the San Diego Reader had already published before classification in 1990.

Today additional information has been released to the public concerning those operations of the early and mid eighties leading into the 'Iran/Contra" affair. This new released information confirms the information given under oath to the Senate in 1990, before it was classified top secret committee sensitive. Its established in the Congressional Record.

Details found within this testimony are about to come up for review for declassification. reference: (John Winer, Dick McCall, Senator John Kerry as referenced by "Legal Review to the Senate of the United States.

Some of those operatives associated with the Contra resupply network were also associated with the sixties operations of the JM/WAVE and "School of Americas", Ft. Benning GA. in operations to overthrow Castro and assassination attempts on Castro.

It appears a few of these operatives which were used in the Dallas gun running operations of the sixties to supply Alpha-66. as well as other operational cells in and around Florida and Louisanna, became active in Central America in the early eighties and worked sanctioned operations for MI with CIA logistical support (Pentagon/Langley) (an early ABLE-DANGER type format, controled out of the Pentagon and reporting to the "White House" (WH Situations Room, briefings.)

These Dallas Cubans had also been active in gun running as far back as 1958 in support of Castro, supplying the M-26-7 and other sanctioned operations of the time. Reference CIA review briefingmemo, 1962, 202- 303 and FBI- 105's

Referenced: FBI 105 files FBI 302's and FBI 62- as well as CIA 202, and 199J's ref: John Martino, John Farentello, Frank Bender, Tracy Barns, Toney Varona, Southwest Airmotive, Dallas Love Field. Executive Air, Red Bird Oak Cliff, (Dallas) declassified March 2001.

Tosh

In her book Professor Mellen writes:

Gerry Patrick Hemming concurs: "Helms is [was?] behind the entire operation to kill JFK." (Ch. 10.)

I can find no cite to this statement, and Mr. Hemming vigorously denies making it to Professor Mellen (or anyone else, for that matter).

So my question for Professor Mellen is what is your support for Hemming ever blaming the assassination on Richard Helms?

I have Gerald Patrick Hemming on tape to the tune of boxes and boxes of tapes from our conversations. Yes, he cited Helms as behind the assassination - on tape with me in Fayetteville, North Carolina. He also cited Lawrence Howard as being in Dealey Plaza, and as a crackerjack shooter and sniper, although more recently he has denied that. This is a individual who has contradicted himself, as many authors and historians have noted. Note that I do not call him a witness.

Ms Mellen,

It's an honor to have you here. I asked Gerry about this also and he became quite rattled and even talked of lawsuits. I suspected -(and hoped)- that anything he told you would be on tape.

Some of us wonder why you included anything Hemming told you in AF2J?

Dawn

--------------------------------------

Let me see now. I became "rattled" and even talked of "lawsuits" ?! How does one discern one's being "rattled" over the Internet ??!! Apparently, you, like Mellen, have profound difficulties in the interpretation of even short, and to the point, written statements ??!!

I don't have to repeat what I wrote in that post, as some very simple movements of one finger on your "mouse" -- will return you to said posting. Even in paraphrasing, it comes out with the same intent.

["...It will be up to the law firm's decision as to whether anything "untoward" has been written in Mellen's book..."]

As it was explained to me -- by those more practised in the field of lawthan I am: "Malice" is oft construed as "what a reasonable person" might discern as the "real purpose" behind the writing of any single [or composite] quotes being ascribed ?! More importantly; are these quotes purporting to be "direct", or from some other entity's and/or scrivener's material -- whether it had been published or not ??!!

It may well come down to the what indeed these "boxes and boxes" of purported "tapes" actually reveal.

I expect, as usual, and down the road -- it will be a case of ascribing ALL blame to either the editor, and/or publisher of said tome.

I still have great difficulty in grasping the "WHY" of any mention as to ex-DCI Helms; or is he "One-of-the-Usual-Suspects" NOW ??!!

Moreover, what would be ANYBODY'S purpose in making ANY reference to Helms, vis-a-vis "The JFK Murder", even if done in a joking manner. During 1963, Helm's was a 4th floor "flunky" -- with a pretentious title !! Not only did he lack any authority over specific clandestine service operations. He wasn't even in the loop !! [just like the Clinton/Reno "WACO" whackers; getting their "promotions?", which is not an undesirable method for quickly removing a "stooge" from the mainstream !!]

Moreover, when it came time to "revise or reveal", with reference to even the inconsequential episodes/events, Helms blundered quite grotesquely. Why? Because he didn't have the slightest "clue" as to what he was supposed to "conceal" !!

The "BIG" question remains -- how the hell would I know anything at all about Helm's activities during the 1960s, and why would I even care ?? Mellen has an "obsession" -- and it is obviously one that grew out of her "gullible-girly-groupie" experience with "Big Jimbo/Gumbo". NOT that I haven't seen that weird behavior repeated time-and-again, over the last 40+ years.

Lawrence J. Howard is still around and breathing. During Larry's years of work as an undercover agent for the A.T.T.U. [i.R.S.], and later for that outfit, when it was reorganized as B.A.T.F. [directly under Treasury] -- he diligently practiced the most important of job skills: Keep an accurate record of all activities and locales associated within every report. [see: Title 18, section 1001, et seq. -- "The Martha Stewart Charges"]

Whether Mellen ascribes her "scribbling" errors to Weberman, Posner, Russo, Larry Hancock, or even Weisberg -- I know exactly where Larry Howard was on 11/22/1963; and so do the agents who closely monitored [and protected] him during those specific periods in question.

I hired Larry Howard during 1977, to act as a co-investigator [and bodyguard] -- and this was while resolving issues as to "Death Squad/Kidnap" activities in Central America. My brother and Larry returned to Central America for that task, and successfully completed said investigation.

During early 1980, when I was again called upon to conduct similar work in Puerto Rico, I hired Larry as a bodyguard to my wife and family. Never once, during all of those years, did we ever have a serious discussion about the JFK matter.

[The one instance was: When, during 1981, while enroute to the Los Angeles BATF field office -- he turned to me and asked who it was, that I had instructed him to "get rid of" -- while our No Name Key crew was being TV interviewed [December 1962] at the Congress Airport Inn motel ?? I had hesitated, and he quickly stated: "...That guy was Oswald..wasn't it..??"!!]

The Los Angeles BATF field office supervisors advised Larry [during 1967] to voluntarily travel to New Orleans -- and thereafter present himself to Garrison for further inquiries.

The only matters that disturbed him were: Government files, which clearly showed that Garrison was a child molester, and that he had serious mental problems. Moreover, those files showed that Garrison was operating under severe strains, most of which were the result of his unfulfilled obligations to Carlos marcello.

However, the government agents didn't think that Garrison would act in a retaliatory manner against Howard, and this was due to the fact that they had informed the NODA that Howard remained an active SSCI (UC) operative for BATF.

Mellen DOES NOT want to hear any of this, as it doesn't comport with her "fantasy-land" agenda; which centers on idolizing her big "Hero". My former spouse is sitting on the couch, right next to my computer desk at this moment, and she has great difficulty grasping the "WHY" of Mellen's claims ?? Especially those where she suddenly purports having tapings of any interviews here in Fayetteville.

This is somewhat upsetting to her, because a family member has recently disposed of a nasty lawsuit, and has now reluctantly agreed to testify against said adversary. That party had made illegal tape recordings during the course of several encounters. Which will, without a doubt result in prison time !!

Here in North Carolina, as is the case in Florida, and most other states -- ALL tapings must begin with the voice of the machine operator stating that: "..This is (name & title)..and I am here in the presence of (name of subject)..for the following purposes.."!! The place, date and time must be included with the foregoing and preserved on all voice recording "events/episodes"; and including any changes to a fresh tape spool.

[see: State vs. Lynda Tripp, MD -- RE: The Monica Lewinsky tapings.]

[The only exemptions apply to the recordations & transcriptions of matters connected to law enforcement activities. Even then, the law requires that each spool be prefaced with the above mentioned inclusions, but a "case number" must be recorded in all "prefaces" !!

Recording by concealed devices is a 5 year felony for each event/incident, which translates to each spool, or where considerable time had intervened; that multiple counts might be filed per each spool !!]

All matters admitted & adjudged in even a civil matter in Federal District Court [including transcripts & exhibits] are later admissable in any criminal proceedings held in a state trial court.

Weberman's strategy was to "force" a libel suit, in order that he might arm himself with a stack of subpoenas from the clerk of the court !! He schemed to thereafter serve, "in persona" and "duces tecum" subpoenas, directed against a vast number of irrelevant VIPs !!

Unfortunately for a defendant in an A.D. 2005 libel lawsuit, those very same "Nodules" will now serve to operate "against interest"; and especially in the case where Weberman is joined as a 2nd or 3rd "Party". The proper venue is here in Cumberland County, NC. [see: Digests, "Venue in Internet Cases"]

I am now prepared to serve a "Notice of Intent", coupled with several sworn statements [Notarized Affidavits] -- and specifically with reference to ALL matters concerning mine , and others', interactions with Ms. Mellen. I am prepared to "FAX" said documents to any parties of interest, but only if Mellen's counsel advises (in writing, and on law firm stationary) that she will submit similar sworn statements as a matter of course !!

I do believe that the time has arrived, in that several scriveners will be called to account for their reckless allegations against a multitude of personages. More important, is that they will finally be called to task for bald allegations -- against specific governmental entities and/or employees !!

I would remind all parties: It is of great interest to all -- that a close scrutiny of Forum member Mike Kelly's reference to the "Sheehan-Tactic" is in order. That is: Using the Civil R.I.C.O. Statutes as the correct/proper device, especially where the forum (Tribunal) and venue are quite advantageous. [see: Title 18, US Code, section 1961 et seq.]

I await Ms. Mellen's production of any "consensual" recordations, especially those reduced to a transcribed format.

Most interesting is the allegation that: I described Lawrence Howard as a "Crackerjack" -- said term I have NEVER used in entire my life. Over the last 60+ years, I have deliberately eschewed the use of hundreds of "current & cool" metaphors. I have always been satisfied by focusing my verbal/oral expressions identical to that of the military. and especially those select "Nautical" terms, which are oft used by Marines and Sailors -- and frequently profane !!

Lawrence J. Howard never received, training, nor ever qualified as a "Sniper". As for "...Many authors and Historians" stating that I have "..contradicted myself". Please, Ms. Mellen, don't hesitate to cite just ONE "author/historian" who, after "personally" interviewing me; has made such allegations.

That some "scribbler' plagiarizes some other "scribbler', who cited to some tabloid trash article, is all too commonplace. But where Mellen, like all of the other reckless "scribblers" fail -- NO "authoritive cites" to the original document or article. Ms. Mellen has opted to NOT explain any reasons why: That she NEVER attempted to personally clarify any sticky issues, much less make mention of same, at an opportune time, prior to publication ??!!

I confronted Garrison with his scheming on more than just one occasion. He admitted to same, but claimed that he was forced into doing this because of "pressing matters at hand" !! Even an amatuer viewer of the Perry Mason TV series, would gag when reviewing his modus operandi during the Orleans Parish Grand Jury sessions.

[Harry Connick, Sr. privately stated that he wanted to dispose of "all that trash" because it was a severe embarassment to the N.O. District Attorney's office, and the legacy thereof.]

The worst news is yet to come. The very few "knowledgeable folks", who are currently involved in the JFK matter -- are agreement in the singular point. That is: To date, EVERY name foisted upon the public as either a "suspect" [or even a "subject of interest"] is absolutely, and totally WRONG. NOT EVEN CLOSE !!

The one person who had 90% of the real facts assembled in a rational form, died during 1974. His death seemingly opened the door, for the then DCI Bill Colby, to terminate Angleton. However, Colby had made a gross mistake, in thinking that this "Possessor-of-Family-Jewels" was JJA's ONLY "Ace-in-the-Hole" !! Which was the genuine reason that Angleton remained active at his office for the next several months.

This "Person", has only been mentioned by name once, during the last 40+ years !! However, and due to the "infamous character" of the writer, said reference was totally ignored. TOO BAD FOLKS, you've NOT been played ["Like-a-Violin"] by professionals -- you played yourselves, ab initio, into a ridiculous and seemingly endless, quandry.

The best displays may well come, if Mike Kelly, et al. initiate a "forum" under some, as yet unknown, legal theory [or priniciple] !! At that time, his "qualified" legal associates might be encouraged to seek out some sworn statements. Especially those "volunteered" by any member who might be selected as a prospective "witnesse". Which is exactly what the A.R.R.B. failed to do !! This is the reason why, when reading their "wit" transcripts, the educated amongst us are dismayed by the tendency towards comic relief

I am prepared right now, to enlarge upon what was quickly redacted from my H.S.C.A. testimony. An ordeal I submitted to -- despite knowing full well that, those proceedings would result in yet another "cover-up".

I really don't expect that the "Qualified Wits" list will be very long. This is because that: When it comes time to swear under oath, as to "personal knowledge" -- the majority of "Village Idiot" type bookreaders will be summarily excluded. "Book Reading" doesn't count in ANY legal forum. However, depositions under oath [such as from Ms. Mellen, and subsequent to subpoena service] would routinely be admitted by most forums and/or tribunals.

I would expect that those attorneys, who have been retained by authors/historian/scriveners, would caution their clients to make DAMN SURE that they will verify all allegations, and/or supportive commentaries. The only thing akin to "taking the 5th amendment" when called upon to speak the truth, is the lame excuse that: "..My attorney advises me that I shouldn't speak upon these matters..!!"

ONE SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT EVEN BEFORE THE SCRIBBLING BEGAN !!

Chairs,

GPH

_____________________________

Mr. Hemming. You are a sick man and should seek professinal help.

You have done more damage to history with your wild unsupported claims than any person on the face of the earth. You quote dead people and incert yourself in their lives and expect us to except your tales and embrace your visions of grander.

If you must sue someone... start with me.

from a previous post on this forum.

GPH was never CIA or MI. He "shadows" information for personal gratification. He sponges up information and speculation and throws it out in disjointed fragments as facts and adds to that over time.

The real CIA file on GPH is they in "no way" wanted anything to do with him or "his boys".., even some of the Cubans who are now dead and gone wanted nothing to do with him, but he now quotes them as buddies in arms.

He has never been a CIA operative or a MI covert operative in spite of what he claims. His stories and disinformation is of his own making. He does not work within the protocol of the jargon of CIA. He thinks he knows how operations come together and who and why they were formed. This is his fantasy.

He drops names in tight circles and picks up jargon then uses it to influence others with his knowledge It works on the ill informed who want to know the workings of the covert world. For some to say he is or was CIA is a dis service to the CIA and our government. People want to believe what they want to believe and

GPH is there to provide the color they so much desire.

A real operative works in the shadows and lives in a world of cut outs and no man lands. Its his job to protect the operation at all cost as it is being played out. Liver Lips like GPH who see others, (who really know what a bag of wind he is) as "Snitches" could never keep the secrets because he wants everyone to see him as a big operative and planner that clears all operations and tells the CIA Director how to play the game.

Covert Ops is a very small world a dangerous world of which the likes of GPH could never have survived. Do what you like with the GPH's material. I have wasted to much time on this whatever person.

Does anyone have a copy of the article, "I ran Drugs for Uncle Sam", by Neal Matthews, San Diego Reader, April 1990? If so would you care to post the " MILITARY MAP" that was printed with the article. I think anyone who thinks they know about these operations would find the names and places of interest that are recordered on this map.

There is a lot of talk and names being thrown around... Post the Map, if you have it, and the date the map went to the Senate of the United States. Take a look at those names and aircraft ID numbers.

Where are the researchers?.... You have missed the 'Meatball".

Tosh, here is a link to the article unfortunately the map itself is not very clear but I'm sure someone of the forum members can produce a better one. www.phoenixarchives.com/express/1991/0591/13-06.pdf

(don't know why its not working here but if you copy and past into goggle it does)

George

Fm Plumlee

Thank You George for the link. As you know that article has been hidden for over a decade. The map is a very important link in understanding the operations down there. I might add that this map was marked before the public firestorm hit in the mid eighties and the Iran/Contra matter became public knowledge (as noted in the Letter from then Senator Gary Hart, Dem of Colorado, to the Senate Foriegn Relations Committee in 1983) Do you have a copy of that letter. I think it has been posted on this forum a few months ago.

Thanks again. Good Research

Tosh