Jim Root

John, Chris, Greg

I have found this topic interesting for a long period of time.

Reprint of a post I made on Jan. 23, 2005:

The use of the phrase "Trotskyite Communist" is interesting. As I have been rereading Agent Hosty's testimony over and over again I find more and more information. How familiar are we today with the phrase "Trotskyite Communist?"

Mr. HOSTY. Agent Gary S. Wilson. Agent Wilson was a brand new agent out of training school. And it is the custom to assign a new agent to work with an older agent for a period of 6 weeks. They work with different agents every day to observe what they are doing. This is the only reason he was with me, the only reason I had another man.

We went to the front porch. I rang the bell, talked to Mrs. Paine, at which time she advised me that Lee Oswald had been out to visit her, visit his wife, at her house over the Weekend, but she had still not determined where he was living in Dallas, and she also made the remark that she (Mrs, Paine) considered him to be a very illogical person, that he (Oswald) had told her that weekend that he was a Trotskyite Communist. Since she did not have his address, I thanked her and left.

Representative FORD. Was this comment by Mrs. Paine that Oswald had said he was a Trotskyite----

Mr. HOSTY. Trotskyite Communist was the word she used; yes, sir.

Representative FORD. Was that new as far as your knowledge of your file was concerned?

Mr. HOSTY. Well, he was a self-admitted Marxist. He had stated that earlier. The New Orleans office had reported that. He had been on television and made that statement in New Orleans, so this appeared to be in keeping with his character.

Representative FORD. The use of the word Trotskyite didn't add anything to the previous Marxist identification?

Mr. HOSTY. Well, of course, that is a particular type of Marxism, Trotskyite, the followers of Leon Trotsky's particular deviation, but this did show that he was not a member of the Communist Party USA, follower of the Leninist-Stalinist-Khrushchev movement, but would be an independent Marxist would be what it would show me, not tied in with the regular Communist Party USA.

Mr. HOSTY. Well, yes. The Socialist Workers Party is the Trotskyite Party in the United States, and they are supposedly the key element in the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, or were the key element in the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. So this would tie in with the fact that he was a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, and, therefore, he claimed to be a Trotskyite this would follow.

Trotskyite Communists were associated with the Russian Left Opposition that was opposed to the Stalinist takeover of the Revolution in the Soviet Union and led to the expulsion of thousands of Russian citizens. Were members of he Russian Community in Dallas Trotskyites? (George DeMohrenschildt)

Jonathon Abt the Attorney that Oswald had defended Smith Act cases. The first Smith Act cases were intsituted against members of the Socialist Workers Party, the Trotskyist Party in the USA.

Would a "shoot down" of the U2 on May 1st 1959 advance the Trotskyist agenda against the Krushchev leadership in Russia?

The crackdown by the OPLA (Stalinist KKE Communists secrete organization) on the Trotskyite eliments of the EAM led to the US use of the Trotskyites during the Greek Civil War (1947 - 1949) against the ELAS. Edwin Walker was running the Greek Desk at the Pentagon at this time and Thomas Karamessines, (the man who would latter be receiving agent Hosty's notes in Richard Helms office before the assassination of John F. Kennedy), was leading the battle against the ELAS.

Would the assassination of JFK aid the Trotskyites goals of destablizing the govenments of both the Soviet Union and the United States?

Coincidence?

Jim Root

Chris

I have spent alot of time looking at and researching a socialist vs communist element in the activities of Oswald. The famous backyard photo (two magazines two opposing organizations), Oswalds contact with the Socialist Party just before he entered the Marines, the socialist movement in Japan while Oswald was at Astugi, his constant portrayal of himself as a Trotskyite Socialist, his request for the Smith Act Attorney Jonathan Abt (Smith Act had first been used against the Socialist later the Communists) upon his arrest, Fair Play for Cuba (Socialist not communist), etc.

Is it to far fetched to believe that Oswald had been used as a Socialist (thinking he was being used by the Socialist Party) in covert activities designed to disrupt the Communist leadership in the Soviet Union? Could Oswald have figured out that he had been used by US Intelligence instead of who he had believed he was assisiting? Does this fall in line with James Jesus Angelton's "Orchid Man" scenario? Did the Communists think he was working for them? Was Yuri Nosenko dispatched to dispel the potential damage an intelligence connection to Oswald could create for the Soviet Union (a sort of "Red Orchid Man")?

Questions that I continue to ponder.

Jim Root

Bernice

Your wonderful!

This gives me a reference point from which to look for additional information. Do you still have a copies of Evelyn Lincoln's books? Any mention of John J. McCloy?

Jim Root

Mark

Great question!

You used the phrase "pet" theories in a correct manner. Within the mind of this simpleton I have entertained several "pet" theories over the years. The most recent being a Civil Rights Theory that was not a theory at all but rather a collection of thoughts that fit well with some facts that I have gathered.

I have stated before that I did not start out believing that there had been a conspiracy. I spent a majority of my years of research without finding what I was willing to accept as legitimate proof of a conspiracy. Needless to say within the last three years I have "crossed over" into the relm of us "conspiracy" nuts. Yet I do not have enough proof to convince myself that I understand all the information that I have collected. I learn more evey week.

When will we know?

I will know when I feel that I have the proof necessary to convince a doubting professional that the truth is before them.

Jim Root

Bernice

Thank you for the info. I looked up Evelyn Lincoln to see if I could find some information about her movements in the hours after the assassination. This is what I found:

"Birthdate: June 25, 1909 - Death: Thursday May 11, 1995

John F. Kennedy's personal secretary. She was riding in the presidential motorcadde on November 22, 1963."

This seems to sugget that Lincoln would not have been at the White House in the hours following the assassination. Since the assassination occured on a Friday one could speculate about when she actually returned to work. It would seem within the relm of possibility to think that Evelyn Lincoln may not have returned until Monday.

I am by no means an expert on homicide investigations but it would seem to be a "normal" procedure to examine the home of a murder victim for potential evidence. Since Oswald, the accused assassin, was already dead by the Monday following the assassiantion, perhaps this procedure was neglected or considered unneccessary.

The question remains: "Did items disapear form the White House in the hours following the assassination of John F. Kennedy?" What happened in the offices of the White House on Friday, Saturday and Sunday?

Jim Root

Does anyone know who was responsible for removing Kennedy's files and personal effects from the White House after the assassination?

Perhaps the information is available somewhere but I cannot seem to locate where this information would be found. It seems to be logical that everything removed would have been cataloged. My problem is that only a few papers dealing with Kennedy's chief disarmament adviser and negotiator, John J. McCloy, can be found at the Kennedy Library. Where did the internal memos between Kennedy and McCloy go? Did any exist?

Jim Root

Brought back for supporting documentation on McCloy and his role in the creation of the modern intelligence agencies.

Jim Root

Greg and James

Some thoughts...

Taylor was a special opps kind of guy. He did his famous mission to Rome in 1944 and if my information is correct other covert trips into Rome during WWII. His association with the Japanese language program in Tokyo prior to WWII (that became associated with Friedmans code work and th ecreation of the NSA), his pre Pearl Harbor South American tour, his creation of the "Green Berets", his battles with the other service Chiefs of Staff during the Eisenhower administration, his battles with Eisenhower on how the Army should be used, his conflict with the Air Force in matters of budget allocation and how the next war would be fought, etc., etc. show that Taylor could be discribed as a "independent thinker and lone wolf."

Taylor, as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff held authority of NSA's General Blake, a former student of Taylors, he had a certain amount of control over the movements of the President via Chester Clifton and influence in the CIA through Marshall Carter, Deputy Director of the CIA. Both Carter and Blake were classmates of Edwin Walker at West Point and I have in previous threads addressed the associations between Taylor and Walker.

I have read that by the early 1960's NSA was controlling a majority of the US intelligence budget (Puzzle Palace). While in the mind of the public the CIA was the leading intelligence agency we have now learned that this was just not true. And the reality is that the NSA was associated with the Army from the begining.

Taylor, with a great amount of influence in the Kennedy Administration and with the internal and international power associated with control of the NSA was in a position to impose his will upon the American public. But perhaps not without the approval of his old tennis buddy John J. McCloy.

Jim Root

In the book The Conquerors by Michael Beschloss we find a great discourse on the internal fight between Henry Morganthau and Sec. of War Stimson backed by John J. McCloy.

This internal fight centered upon the question, "After the surrender of Germany how would Germany be treated?" The Morganthau Plan called for Germany to be turned into an agrarian society without an industrial base. Morganthau wanted the harshest penalties imposed possible. The Stimson-McCloy Plan was to treat Germany in a "Christian" manner and rebuild the Germany industrial capability ASAP to create a buffer between "the white snows of Russia and the White Cliffs of Dover."

Needless to say McCloy would go on to become High Commissioner of Germany (imposing the Stimson-McCloy Plan) and the Morganthau Plan would become a historical footnote.

For myself I find an interesting historical fact in Beschloss book. Morganthau became upset because the War Department (Stimson-McCloy) had produced a rather top secrete "SHAEF Handbook" on how Germany and the German people were to be treated as the military began to occupy German Territory. Morganthau had been passed a copy of the handbook by Bernard Bernstein, Morganthaus man on Eisenhower’s staff. This "handbook" laid the foundation for the Stimson=McCloy Plan.

For several weeks/months leading up to the Presidential Election and encompassing the Quebec Conference this internal controversy hit the newspapers (leaks and counter leaks) creating a huge stir in the United States.

As a result of this controversy John J. McCloy began to monitor and limit the movements of Bernard Bernstein in Europe, "persuading" Eisenhower to keep him in England and not allow him into Germany.

Bernstein would eventually be allowed into German with the discovery of NAZI loot at Merkers Mine. The military commander that would accompany him while dealing with this "loot" was Col. Edwin Anderson Walker!

Coincidence?

Jim Root

Greg

Thanks for the input, especially from the Times article. I had made a copy of the same article that I found at the Uinversity of Wisconsin, Madison library a few years ago. I used this statement from that article in a previous post:

"Military Analyst S.L.A. (Slam) Marshall of the Detroit News, a retired brigider general and one of the nation's leading military historians (The River and the Gauntlet), has serious reservations about the man he followed through Normandy, Holland, Belgium and Korea. "I think I know Max Taylor as well as any man in America. He was an extraordinary battle commander-the most tightly self disciplined officer I ever knew. But Taylor is the wrong man for this job. Taylor is not a conciliator. He's actively interested in the exercise of power for his own sake."

Add this prophetic statement about Taylor in the same article that preceeded the assassiantion of John F. Kennedy by two years:

"He'd never mix with the fellows when we went on a trips, drink a beer or join in chitchat. He'd go over in a corner of the plane and read a book." Says one Hill leader, "I see nothing but trouble ahead."

Lawerence D. Freedman stated in a Foreighn Affairs article (September/October 2002):

"During the Cuban missile crisis, for example, the first offerings from the Joint Chiefs of Staff set as the U.S. objective the liberation of Cuba, even as the president set down the more restricted goal of removing offensive weapons from the island. When asked what the Soviet reaction might be to their preferred option of massive air strikes against the island, the brass answered, "Soviet reaction unknown." And they were still pressing for offensive action when Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev conceded.'

"Kennedy later remarked that the first advice he would give to his successor was "to watch the generals" and not think that "just because they were military men their opinions on military matters were worth a damn."

What did Kennedy know and when did he know it?

Jim Root

Gerry

Could you give us your opnion of Maxwell Taylor?

Jim Root

Ron

You have made my day a great deal more exciting with the information you have posted. I have requested and should be receiving a more detailed summary of Gordon A. Blakes military record soon (I ordered it at the beginning of the week and received confirmation that it was being sent on Wednesday).

Walker was in Hawaii until November 5th, 1941 (I believe) just 32 days before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. He was stationed at Schofield Barracks which is close to Fort Shafter where the SIS Listenning Post was located. Two points about this:

1) Walkers withdrawal from Hawaii coincides with a coded intercept that was translated by John B. Hurt that disclosed the possibility of a Japanese attack by the end of November somewhere in the Pacific (they were very close). If Walker was not withdrawn it is conceivable that he would have remained in the Pacific Theater during WWII. As one of the six secretaries to George Marshall, Maxwell Taylor was in a position to withdraw Walker from the Pacific for special assignments as needed during the War. His assignment to the First Special Services Force would be just such an assignment (for several reasons).

2) General Fredericks, USMA 1929, (the first commander of the FSSF and another Taylor protege and Walker associate) was stationed at Fort Shafter, the SIGINT listening post. During the Greek Civil War Gerneral Fredericks would be associated with Thomas Karamessines. Fredericks was also withdrawn from Hawaii in the months preceeding Pear Harbor and was assigned to the War Plans Division in the Old Munitions Buiding where both Taylor and Friedman's group were stationed.

Ron, while the above is of course interesting, it is Rowletts reference to COMINT (communications intelligence) which I find most interesting and where a lot of my research has been pointing for a long time. Form a cousin of John B. Hurt I have learned that Hurt was fluent in Russian. When the question of Hurts ability in the Russian language was placed before my NSA Historian contact, he stated that he could only confirm that (Hurt) spoke Japanese, Latin and French.

If John Hurt was working on Russian Language COMINT in the 1950's and Oswalds "defection" to Russia was a "staged" event designed to "trick" the Soviets into passing known information along intercepted communication channels would Oswald's attempt to call a person by the name of John Hurt send shivers up the spines of people at the top of the intelligence pile?

I am currently reading some of Bamfords work. Seems I will have to read more.

Jim Root

Ron

Great piece of information about Rowlett and Gordon Blake. Can you provide the supporting documentation references for Bamford's work.

I am awaiting some information on Gordon Aylesworth Blake as we write. While he did in fact retire as an Air Force Lt. General there are a few interesting facts to keep in mind. First, his rank was reduced to Lt. General when he left the NSA as the result of a dispute with, I believe it was McNamara. Second, Blake was a West Point graduate class of 1931 same as Edwin Walker dispite the fact that he left the Army when an independent Air Force was created. Blake was a West Point Cadet during the same four year period (1927 - 1931) that Maxwell Taylor was an instructor at West Point.

Going a little further Blake and Walker attended flight school together upon graduation from West Point. Blake first studied Signals intelligence at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey for the period of time imediately preceeding the time that Walker spent at the same facility (Walker's association to this program is how I first connected Walker with John B. Hurt). It is my understanding that Blake was one of the select few that went to Ft. Monmouth for the original classes that centered upon the collection of foreign signals intelligence to be used by Friedman's team of cryptologist (of which Frank Rowlett was a member).

When you stated, "Frank Rowlett, special assistant to director Blake" you of course caught my attention because Rowlett was one of the five original members of William Friedman's team that came together in 1930. Another member of this five man team that continued to work for the NSA until just before the assassination of John F. Kennedy was John B. Hurt and you, Ron, know my thoughts about this particular person.

What you are now stating in your post is of significant importance to my research. A personal friend and co-worker of John B. Hurt was assigned by a classmate of Edwin Walkers to review the work done by Meredith K. Gardner, "one of NSA’s top Soviet codebreakers, (who) was assigned to examine a number of items from assassin Lee Harvey Oswald and suspected to contain codes and ciphers.”

You further state, "Frank Rowlett, special assistant to director Blake, did not include this information in the final report to the Warren Commission. He informed deputy director Tordella in a memo that he was eliminating the reference to microdots, as well as a reference to sensitive NSA eavesdropping (Comint) files,against which names in Lee’s and Marina’s address books had been checked with negative results."

We know that Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to call a person named John Hurt the night of the assassiantion. Now you are saying that a friend of NSA's John B. Hurt, Frank Rowlett, withheld "a reference to sensitive NSA eavesdropping (Comint) files, against which names in Lee’s and Marina’s address books had been checked with negative results" John B. Hurt's work and name remained classified till around 1968, two years after Hurts death. Here we can have a factual reason why and how, what is now known as the Raleigh Call name, "John Hurt" was eliminated from the Warren Commissioners and the Warren Report.

"Tordella agreed, and the sanitized report was sent to the commission”

Needless to say this is a revelation that I was not aware of.

Jim Root

"Jim, I suggest you do the same about your Civil Rights theory. It is in danger of being lost in Tim's thread."

John Simkin

What is presented here is not a long thought out theory. At best it is a cosmic soup that may come together to form a whole at some future date in time. Tim Gratz suggested that we should “list … various scenarios and consider them.” I had been pondering some thoughts surrounding recently uncovered information that was leading me to reexamine John J. McCloy as a possible conspirator.

First some background. When I first began researching the assassination of JFK I was a convinced “lone nut” believer for no other reason than I had never been convinced by any one single conspiracy theory and I knew that they could not all be true. When I first read the Warren Report (11 years ago) I discovered the name of Edwin Walker. Thus began a quest to learn as much about Walker as possible. About three years ago I made my first visit to Center Point, Texas, Walker’s home town. What I discovered has since convinced me that the Warren Report was very flawed in, if nothing else, it’s portrayal of Edwin Walker!

At any rate in the past 96 hours these thoughts have emerged as a scenario to be considered.

On November 29, 1963 Lyndon Johnson announced that he was going to drive forward with what became known as the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Johnson did so in the name of our fallen President, John F. Kennedy. What must be remembered is that what became law after the assassination was a questionable piece of legislation before the death of Kennedy. And Kennedy was reluctant to push this legislation forward.

At the time of Kennedy's death civil rights leaders in the South had criticized Kennedy for doing too little in the area of Civil Rights. Kennedy had voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1957 and whiles a Senator had never been a keen advocate of such legislative issues. While Kennedy played the race card to receive the Black vote in America, a vote that may have helped him gain the Presidency, Kennedy had to tread a very fine line in the South by 1963. His popularity by September 1963 showed that his support had dropped to 44% in the South. It had been 60% in March 1963. Chances for the passage of Civil Rights legislation was dropping as fast as Kennedy's poll numbers and he, it seems, was unwilling to be crucified in the 64 election on the cross of Civil Right.

The country, as we learned in the mid 60’s, was on the verge of unprecedented social unrest and perhaps uncontrollable violent civil unrest. Civil Rights as a major campaign issue in 64 may have threatened Kennedy's reelection bid and it may have set back the Civil Rights movement by years leading to further, uncontrollable social upheaval.

One could argue that the death of Kennedy led to the resurrection of the Civil Rights Act!

Christopher George has suggested that:

1)Passage of the Civil Rights legislation was made possible not simply because of the removal of Kennedy because of the assassination itself, given the free rein the country usually gives a President after a national tragedy. This is what benefited George W. Bush during the period after 9/11 -- there is a honeymoon period with political opponents, the media, and the public, in which the nation feels the President can do no wrong and he is able to push through otherwise difficult legislation.

And

2) Passage of the Civil Rights legislation was made more possible because LBJ was a southerner and Kennedy was not. Just as with Nixon going to China, the old hard line Communist baiter suddenly making treaties with the Reds. Texan LBJ was more palatable to the Old South than the Catholic New Englander as a leader in terms of furthering Civil Rights legislation.

A quick look at the Warren Commissioners could suggest that their action over the next year were not only directed at completing the Commission Report but also playing a major role in the passage of this landmark legislation.

Earl Warren: Major proponent of Civil Rights as the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. The famous “Impeach Warren” posters in Dallas at the time of the assassination were generated, in great part, by his decisions supporting racial equality.

Richard Russell: Southerner who was a major opponent of Civil Right legislation for the previous 20 years. Russell, who had opposed anti lynching legislation, switched positions and announced he would not block the Civil Rights Act.

Hale Boggs: Southerner that supported the Bill, supporter of Civil Rights in general.

John S. Cooper: Southerner who supported the legislation

Gerald Ford: A general opponent to Federal involvement in Civil Rights legislation who would support the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as Chairman of the House Republican Caucus.

John J. McCloy: Architect of the integration of the US Military McCloy was an early and vocal proponent of Civil Rights as well as an author and proponent of the National Security Act. Chairman of the World Bank, head of the Ford Foundation, McCloy was the ultimate insider.

Allen Dulles: It is difficult to find information about his position on Civil Rights.

It seems that this group not only came together on the assassination findings but they also seem to have blended their views together, despite some rather divergent positions, on Civil Rights. To some extent the Warren Commissioners became the key players in the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 despite the fact that some commissioners had been leaders of the fierce opposition prior to the assassination.

The nation was being torn apart over the question of Civil Rights. Kennedy dies and the legislation is then passed that would eventually lead to a calming of racial tensions. While social unrest would continue the central rally point for “left leaning” civil rights demagogues had been destroyed. One could argue that if that was a motive, the "conspirators" accomplished their goal.

Unlike many of the other theories that are advanced (i.e. Cuba, mafia, far right, etc.) little if anything was accomplished by these groups that improved their positions. The exception would be the military industrial complex. For years I have advocated the potential participation of Maxwell Taylor in the assassination scenario. This position does not change with this scenario. In fact, Taylor would play a major conspiratorial role as well and the focus of civil unrest would change from civil rights to an anti-war fever.

Another intriguing aspect of this scenario is that John J. McCloy was a vocal advocate of Civil Rights for 20 years by the time of the Kennedy assassination. McCloy, in many ways helped raise Warren to his position on the Supreme Court. Warren changed in many ways after he and McCloy worked together on the relocation of Japanese Americans in 1942. McCloy would became involved in fund raising for Warren and championed his political career. When Warren negotiated a promise to be appointed to the next available seat on the Supreme Court in exchange for his endorsement of Eisenhower, the Supreme Court would be changed into an institution of social change rather than an interpreter of the Constitution.

Had McCloy accomplished what Roosevelt failed to accomplish in the 1930’s? Was the Supreme Court now a “stacked” institution? Stacked and manipulated by a cabal led by McCloy and his followers in the “Establishment?”

After the passage of the Civil Rights Act Warren sped up judicial review of Civil Rights cases thus assuring that the Supreme Court gave it its blessing to the Act.

With this type of power was the fact that Kennedy was not getting the job done in this area a death warrant?

I have been researching John J. McCloy for years based simply upon the fact that I found a letter written from him to Edwin Walker that was dated five months before the assassination.

In just the last few weeks I have made a circumstantial connection between McCloy and the NSA's John B. Hurt that seems rather strong. It deals with factual statements made by McCloy during discussions with President Truman prior to the surrender of Japan and the dropping of the first atomic bomb (statements that were based upon information that had been pieced together by John B. Hurt). I must consider that this folds in well with a loose connection between Hurt and Edwin Walker (beginning about 1935) and a stronger connection between Maxwell Taylor and Hurt (beginning 1941) all which could be just a coincidence. But toss in the fact that Oswald attempted to contact a John Hurt (information that was suppressed from the Warren Commission) and we have another interesting web from which to weave this possible picture.

But in this scenario you would have to make John J. McCloy a major conspirator and he would have to be in a position to coordinate and cover-up the assassination. Are there facts to support this position? In addition the motive would have to fit with McCloy’s character. One would also have to be convinced that he would, somehow, have the ability to cover up his crime if he was in fact involved.

Edwin Walker would be a pawn that could be manipulated if the need arose.

Let's examine the facts (not circumstantial evidence).

1) I recently discovered that the Kennedy Library seems, to a remarkable degree, to lack a collection of written correspondence between McCloy and Kennedy despite the fact that McCloy was a major player within the Kennedy administration. One could credibly ask why is there a lack of correspondence preserved. What is missing and why?

2) Throughout his political career McCloy advocated and pursued the advancement of civil rights within the military and later spread his advocacy to any area that could include Federal jurisdiction (interstate commerce and transportation for instance). He also fought for the equality of Nations and their peoples as well as the reemergence of a strong, equal partnership position for Germany within a democratic Europe that could fight Soviet expansion.

3) Being within the government and with a background in intelligence McCloy would have had access to the information necessary to pull off an assassination.

4) McCloy had a close personal relationship with Maxwell Taylor that began in Italy (1943/44 or before), continued into Germany (McCloy as High Commissioner and Taylor as Military Governor, both were avid tennis players) that continued into the 1960's with both of the two working together within the Kennedy Administration.

5) Taylor and Edwin Walker had a close relationship that began in 1927 and lasted until ?????

6) McCloy wrote a letter to Walker (five months before the assassination) that one could argue was designed to distance him from Walker IF Walker were in fact associated with Oswald following the assassination (perhaps showing advanced knowledge of events about to unfold?). That message was placed in a depository that was very public and should have been very easy to find if events began to unravel or could have been placed as an insurance policy to insure complicity on the part of an unwitting Edwin Walker.

7) The assassination attempt upon the life of Edwin Walker was in fact associated with Oswald after Walker was interviewed by a German newspaper the morning following the assassination.

8) The assassination attempt upon Walker was in fact explained away by the Warren Commission that was led, in many ways, by John J. McCloy.

9) McCloy and the Warren Commission concluded that Oswald acted as a "lone nut."

10) McCloy was in fact named to the Warren Commission and played a major role in naming the lead council and directing the investigation.

11) Maxwell Taylor did direct, as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the War in Vietnam

12) McCloy and Taylor had the means, the motive and the opportunity to lead an assassination coup of President John F. Kennedy. (Taylor, Vietnam War, MCCloy Civil Rights legislation?)

13) Another fact that I just discovered in the last 48 hours. Lt. Gen. Gordon A. Blake, head of the NSA at the time of the assassination and therefore the "boss" of John B. Hurt until his retirement, was a classmate of Edwin Walker (USMA 1931) while Maxwell Taylor was an instructor at West Point. Since the NSA was controlled by the Department of Defense, Taylors authority over the organization would be direct.

14) Marshall Sylvester Carter was Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) from 1962 to 1965. He too was also a West Point class of 1931 Taylor/Walker associate.

15) After the assassination, while on the plane from Dallas to Washington DC it was Maj. Gen. Chester Clifton who made the plans dealing with how to get the widow, Kennedy's body after the autopsy and how to get the new president off the plane. Clifton was a Taylor appointee to Kennedy's staff and just by coincidence his first commanding officer after graduation from West Point was Edwin Anderson Walker.

Let us consider Walker further.

If known to the general public, would the personal relationships of Edwin Walker with members of Kennedy's staff and advisors be a reason to call for a further investigation intothis man?

Let me return to the subject of Walker's travels in Europe that overlaps Oswald's travels in 1959.

Why was there such a lack of information presented to the Warren Commission dealing with Oswalds travels? Despite the fact that passenger lists were available for all flights that left London (Heathrow) Airport at the time of the Kennedy assassination and to the investigators by the Warren Commission. But no one identified which flight Oswald departed on. Why?

New information that Antti and I have pieced together reveals that Oswald may well have taken anyone of several flights from London on the morning of Oct. 10, 1959 with anyone of several destination that could have placed him and Walker in the same place at the same time to meet. If these two men did in fact meet, could that meeting later provide Oswald with a motive to attempt to assassinate Edwin Walker? Motive equaling something more than just a "nut."

Is it important to consider that the messages sent by John Hickerson (American Ambassador in Helsinki who worked with McCloy and Cooper during the creation of NATO) dated September 4, 1959 and October 9, 1959 coincide exactly with major events in Lee Harvey Oswald's "defection" to the Soviet Union? These two dates coincide exactly with Oswald's early discharge from the Marines and his application for a passport at the Santa Ana, CA Courthouse (Sept. 4, 1959 which lists Helsinki as a possible destination) and his extra day of travel (Oct. 9, 1959) in Europe.

The Oct. 9, 1959 message suggested that if a person presented himself at the Soviet Embassy and had already purchased first class Intourist vouchers, that person could gain entrance into the Soviet Union easily. Oswald followed the instructions to the letter despite the fact that he never entered the American Embassy in Helsinki, where this information was generated, and that the information was considered so valuable that it remained classified for 13 years. Who gave him that information? COULD it have been Walker who was in the same place at the same time?

If Oswald and Walker did in fact meet what would the Warren Commission be compelled to do to cover that event up?

1) Oswald's flight from London to Helsinki could not be identified. It was not.

2) The military history of Walker would need to be left out of the Commission record. It was.

3) The telephone interview conducted between Walker (who was staying at a Hotel in Shreveport, LA) and a German newspaper would have to be explained away. It was.

4) Oswald would have to die. He did.

5) Walker would have to be kept quite. The letter from McCloy to Walker would insure this.

Just arguments for a scenario but arguments based upon facts.

Jim Root

Tim

Let me return to the subject of Walker's travels in Europe that overlaps Oswald's travels. Why was there such a lack of infromation presented to the Warren Commission dealing with Oswalds travels? Dispite the fact that the passenger lists were available for all flights that left London (Heathrow) Airport were available at the time of the Kennedy assassination and to the investigators for the Warren Commission, no one identified which flight Oswald departed on. Why?

The new information that Antti and I have pieced together that shows that Oswald may well have taken anyone of several flights from London on the morning of Oct. 10, 1959 with anyone of several destination that could have placed him and Walker in the same place at the same time to meet. If these two men did in fact meet, could that meeting later provide Oswald with a motive to attempt to assassinate Edwin Walker? Motive equaling something more than just a "nut."

Is it important to consider that the messages sent by John Hickerson (American Ambassador in Helsinki and a McCloy, Cooper and Walker associate) dated September 4, 1959 and October 9, 1959 coincide exactly with major events in Lee Harvey Oswald's "defection" to the soviet Union? These two dates coincide exactly with Oswald's early discharge from the Marines and his applicaiton for a passport at the Santa Ana, CA courthouse (Sept. 4, 1959 which lists Helsinki as a possible destination) and his extra day of travel (Oct. 9, 1959).

The Oct. 9, 1959 message suggested that if a person presented himself at the Soviet Embassy and had already purchased first class Intouris vouchers, that person could gain enterence into the Soviet Union easily. Oswald followed these instruction to the letter dispite the fact that he never entered the American Embassy in Helsinki, where this information was generated, and that the information was considered so valuable that it remained classified for 13 years. Who gave him that information? COULD it have been Walker who was in the same place at the same time?

If Oswald and Walker did in fact meet what would the Warren Commission be compelled to do to cover that event up?

1) Oswald's flight from London to Helsinki could not be identified. It was not.

2) The military history of Walker would need to be left out of the Commission record. It was.

3) The telephone interview conducted between Walker (who was staying at a Hotel in Shreveport, LA) and a German newspaper would have to be explained away. It was.

4) Oswald would have to die. He did.

5) Walker would have to be kept quite. The letter from McCloy to Walker would insure this.

Just arguments for a scenario but arguments based upon facts.

Jim Root

Tim

"Well this is the first time I have ever heard a theory that JFK was killed to advance the cause of civil rights."

"The question I raise is what motivated LBJ to order the cover-up. I think it is helpful to list the various scenarios and consider them.

In doing so, it may very well depend on who the conspirators were."

Quotes from two of your posts in this thread.

I am not sure I am advancing a theory although your original question asked us "to list the various scenarios and consider them." I thought I would be remiss if I failed to list these particular thoughts considering that the outcome (the Civil Rights Act of 1964) may well have been an outcome that, it could be argued, only became a reality as a result of the assassination.

So, for the sake of discussion, lets discuss this information.

I have been researching John J. McCloy for years based simply upon the fact that I found a letter written from him to Edwin Walker that was dated five months before the assassination. Coincidence?

In just the last few weeks I have made a circumstantial connection between McCloy and the NSA's John B. Hurt that seems rather strong. It deals with factual statements made by McCloy during discussions with President Truman prior to the surrender of Japan (statements that were based upon information that had been pieced together by John B. Hurt). I must consider that this folds in well with a loose connection between Hurt and Edwin Walker (beginning about 1935) and a stronger connection between Maxwell Taylor and Hurt (beginning 1941) that could be just a coincidence. But toss in the fact that Oswald attempted to contact a John Hurt (information that was supressed from the Warren Commission) and we have another interesting web from which to weave a possible picture.

But in this scenario you would have to make John J. McCloy a major conspirator and he would have to be in a position to coordinate and coverup an assassination. In addition one would have to attach a motive to any potential action that he may have taken that would fit with his character. You would also have to assume that he would, somehow have the ability to cover up his crime if he was in fact involved.

Let's examine the facts (not circumstantial evidence).

1) I recently discovered that the Kennedy Library seems, to a remarkable degree, to lack a collection of written correspondence between McCloy and Kennedy dispite the fact that McCloy was a major player within the Kennedy adminsistration. One could credibly ask, why is this?

2) Throughout his political career McCloy advocated and persued the advancement of civil rights within the military and later spread his advocacy to any area that could include Federal jurisdiction (interstate commerce and transportation for instance). He also fought for the equality of Nations and their peoples as well as the reemergence of a strong, equal partnership position for Germany within a democratic Europe that could fight Soviet expansion.

3) Being within the government and with a backround in intelligence McCloy would have had access to the information necessary to pull off an assassination.

4) McCloy had a close personal relationship with Maxwell Taylor that began in Italy (1943/44 or before), continued into Germany (McCloy as High Commissioner and Taylor as Military Governor, both were avid tennis players) that continued into the 1960's with both of the two working together within the Kennedy Administration.

5) Taylor and Edwin Walker had a close relationship that began in 1927 and lasted until ?????

6) McCloy wrote a letter to Walker (five months before the assassination) that one could argue was designed to distance him from Walker IF Walker were in fact associated with Oswald following the assassination (perhaps showing advanced knowledge of events about to unfold?). That message was placed in a depository that was very public and should have been very easy to find if events began to unravail or could have been placed as an insurance policy to insure complicity on the part of an unwitting Edwin Walker.

7) The assassiantion attempt upon the life of Edwin Walker was in fact associated with Oswald after Walker was interviewed by a German newspaper the morning following the assassination.

8) The assassination attempt upon Walker was in fact explained away by the Warren Commission that was led, in many ways, by John J. McCloy.

9) McCloy and the Warren Commission concluded that Oswald acted as a "lone nut."

10) McCloy was in fact named to the Warren Commission and played a major role in naming the lead council and directing the investigation.

11) Maxwell Taylor did direct, as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the War in Vietnam

12) McCloy and Taylor had the means, the motive and the opportunity to direct an assassination of President John F. Kennedy. (Taylor, Vietnam War, MCCloy Civil Rights legislation?)

13) Just for the fun of it one last little fact that I just discovered in the last 48 hours. Lt. Gen. Gordon A. Blake, head of the NSA at the time of the assassination and therefore the "boss" of John B. Hurt until his retirement, was a classmate of Edwin Walker (USMA 1931) while Maxwell Taylor was an instructor at West Point.

14) Marshall Sylvester Carter was Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) from 1962 to 1965. He to was a West Point class of 1931 Taylor/Walker associate.

15) After the assassination, while on the plane from Dallas to Washington DC it was Maj. Gen. Chester Clifton who made the plans dealing with how to get the widow, Kennedy's body after the autopsy and how to get the new president off the plane. Clifton was a Taylor appointee to Kennedy's staff and just by coincidence his first commanding officer after graduation from West Point was Edwin Anderson Walker.

If known to the general public, would the personal relationships of Edwin Walker with members of Kennedy's staff and advisors be a reason to call for a further investigation into that area alone?

How much more information would be needed to get a Grand Jury to indict?

Jim Root

Nic

Warren changed in many ways after he and McCloy worked together on the relocation of Japanese Americans in 1942. McCloy then became involved in fund raising for Warren that helped his political career up to his indorsement of Eisenhower in exchange for a promise to be appointed to the next Supreme Court seat that opened.

Jim Root

Chris

That is my point, if you want to go in this direction. The nation was being torn apart in many ways over the question of Civil Rights. Kennedy dies and the legislation is passed. One could argue that if that was a motive the "conspirators" accomplished their goal.

Unlike many of the other theories that are advanced (ie Cuba, mafia, far right, etc.) little if anything was accomplished.

What intrigues me about this scenerio is that John J. McCloy was a vocal advocate of Civil Rights for 20 years by the time of the Kennedy assassination. McCloy, in many ways helped raise Warren to his position on the Supreme Court. Warren in turn sped up Civil Rights cases after the passage of the 64 Act that assured that the Supreme Court gave it it's blessing. Both Dulles and Cooper are associated with McCloy as well. Russell and Ford, the two most vocal opponents to Civil Rights legislation on the Commission changed positions and then helped to pass the legislation (one could argue that they saw the light). Boggs was a long time supporter.

And Kennedy was not getting the job done!

Just thoughts worth discussing.

Jim Root

Tim

If you want to have some fun with your question let's go out on a limb and ponder an additional fact.

On November 29, 1963 Lyndon Johnson announced that he was going to drive forward with what became known as the Civil Rights Act of 1964 in the name of our fallen President. What became law after the assassination was a questionable piece of legislation before the assassination that Kennedy was, it seems, afraid to push forward.

The Warren Commissioners:

Earl Warren: Major proponent of Civil Rights

Richard Russell: Southerner who was a major opponent of of Civil Right legislation. Russell switched positions and announced he would not block the Civil Rights Act.

Hale Boggs: Soputherner that supported the Bill, supporter of Civil Rights in general.

John S. Cooper: Southerner who supported the legislation

Gerald Ford: A general opponent to Federal involvement in Civil Rights he supported the Civil Rights Act as Chairman of the House Republican Caucus.

John J. McCloy: Architect of the integration of the US Military he was an early and vocal proponent of Civil Rights.

Allen Dulles: It is difficult to find information about his position on Civil Rights.

It seems that not only did this group come together on the assassination findings but they also seem to have blended their views together, dispite some rather divergent positions, on Civil Rights. To some extent the Warren Commissioners became the key players in the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 dispite some who had led the fierce opposition prior to the assassiation.

At the time of Kennedy's death civil rights leaders in the South had criticised Kennedy for doing too little in this area. He had voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1957. Kennedy had to tread a very fine line in the South. His popularity by September 1963 showed that his support had dropped to 44% in the South. It had been 60% in March 1963. Chances for the passage of Civil Rights legislation was dropping as fast as Kennedy's poll numbers.

Civil Rights as a major campaign issue in 64 may have threatened Kennedy's reelection bid and set back the Civil Rights movement by years.

One could argue that the death of Kennedy led to the resurrection of the Civil Rights Act!

Coincidence?

Jim Root

Just for the record I thought I would add this statement from NuclearFiles.org about John J. McCloy.

"John J. McCloy was born on March 31, 1895 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He graduated from Harvard Law School in 1921 and practiced law on Wall Street. Perhaps his most important case, "Black Tom" was also the catalyst for his political career. In the "Black Tom" case, McCloy proved that German agents sabotaged a US munitions factory in New Jersey in 1916. After winning the law suit, he served as an advisor to every president from Franklin Roosevelt to Ronald Regean.

He was appointed Assistant Secretary of War on April 22, 1941. By 1945, McCloy was spending most of his time working on issues involving postwar Germany. With the Secretary of War Henry Stimson's health failing, McCloy became increasingly involved in the War Department.

McCloy was a key player in deciding whether or not to drop the bomb. He was one of the few civilians to know about the project. During a meeting on June 18, 1945, Truman approved the invasion of mainland Japan. McCloy pushed for an alternative diplomatic approach to achieve a Japanese surrender. He wrote, "everyone was so intent on winning the war by military means that the introduction of political consideration was almost accidental." On the advice of President Truman, McCloy took his ideas to Secretary of State James Byrnes, who rejected them.

The Committee of Three, composed of Henry Stimson, James Forrestal, and Joseph Grew, was assigned by President Truman to explore alternatives to make Japan surrender. McCloy wrote a proposed surrender demand that was incorporated into Article 12 of the Potsdam Proclamation. The original draft of the Proclamation included language that would have allowed Japan to keep its emperor, a condition that would have greatly increased the chances of Japan's acceptance of surrender. After the atomic bombings, McCloy believed for the rest of his life that "we missed the opportunity of effecting a Japanese surrender, completely satisfactory to us, without the necessity of dropping bombs."

Between 1947 and 1949 McCloy served as president of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (the World Bank). From 1949 to 1952 he served as US military governor and high commissioner for Germany and helped rebuild the country. In 1961, McCloy became President Kennedy's principal disarmament advisor. He negotiated terms for the resumption of East-West disarmament talks and drafted a bill that led to the establishment of the US Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.

McCloy died on March 11, 1989 in Stamford, Conneticut."

Jim Root

David

Thank you for the opportunity to once again write about my favorite assassination subject....Edwin Walker.

Let me first suggest that you read my posts over the past year and you will get a taste of my research on Walker.

Over the past eleven years or so I have been researching this man. While it took a while to get past his post military resignation activities I have found that the military career of Walker placed him as a leading figure in some of the most exciting periods of 20th century history.

Allow me to list a few:

First Straits of Taiwan Crisis.....Military advisor to Chiang Kai Chek.

Millitary commander of the 82nd Airborne while on opperation at Little Rock, Arkansas during the integration of schools.

2nd Commander of the First Special Services Force during WWII. Some feel this was the most uniquly trained unit of the war.

Organized prisoner exchange programs in both WWII and Korea....both involved the interrogation and recruitment of former enemies as intelligence assets.

Involved in the capture of a Japanese radar installation (thought to be more sophistacated than it turned out to be) on the island of Kiska.

Trainer of Rangers during the Korean War.....many of these men would go on to become CIA operatives.

Involved with the transfer of captured Nazi loot near the end of WWII.

May have been involved with signals intelligence as early as 1935 putting him in contact with a man named John B. Hurt.

Student at West Point 1927 - 1931 the same four years that Maxwell Taylor was an instructor at West Point.

First intelligence assignment may have been as early as 1933...Governors Island New York.

Pulled out of Hawaii just 32 days before the attack on Pearl Harbor just days after the Friedman's Group (with member John B. Hurt doing the translations) had decrypted a note that led the US to believe there would be a Japanese attack in the Pacific by the end of November.

Operated the Greek desk at the Pentagon during the Greek Civil War during the late 1940's.

Traveling in Europe at the same time as Oswald when Oswald defected to the Soviet Union.

Pro Blue Program (providing John Burch Society materials to the 24th Infantry Division), which leads to Walker's resignation begins within days of Oswald filing his application to return to the US and the State Departments lawyers decision that he will be allowed to return.

Please direct additional questions if you wish, it's late.

Jim Root

James

My reexamination of John J. McCloy began when I read the declassified reports written by John B. Hurt.

If you look up the historical meeting that took place between Harry Truman and his advisors when the decision about dropping the atomic bomb on Heroshima was discussed we find an interesting anomaly. McCloy was opposed to the use of the “bomb” and made a case for a negotiated peace with Japan within a certain framework. The framework suggests an intimate knowledge on the part of McCloy of a series of messages that had been decrypted and then translated by Hurt that dwelt with Japans desire to reach a negotiated peace. Very few people had access to those most important and specific messages.

Did McCloy know John B. Hurt?

Let’s go a step further. McCloy first worked with Earl Warren in 1941/42 during the relocation of the Japanese. McCloy then, it seems, helped orchestrate Warren's rise in politics and then to the position of Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

McCloy played a major role in developing the National Security Act and was involved in the creation of the CIA which Allen Dulles would lead. Dulles worked under McCloy while station chief in Bern during WWII on these same messages that were being collected on Japans desire to reach a negotiated peace.

It seems that the three Warren Commissioners that attended the most meetings and had, arguably, the greatest influence on the findings were led by (or at least may have owed their positions in life) to John J. McCloy who quite possibly knew John B. Hurt that shared a name with a person that Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to contact the night of the assassination.

And then McCloy's records, it seems, have been cleansed from the official JFK records stored in the JFK Library.

Why?

Jim Root

James

While I only find two pieces of written correspondence between JFK and McCloy in the JFK Library, as you know, I did find one piece of written correspondence between McCloy and Edwin Walker in Walker"s files. The McCloy to Walker letter was written five months before the assassiantion and goes to great lengths to distance them from each other. Why?

I have felt, for years now, that McCloy was on the top of the Intelligence heap in America since the days of World War II. If this is true he would, one could assume, have the ability to cleanse the records of an assassinated President of any communication that would lead someone to suggest that he may have had "differences" with the President on any subject. The lack of correspondence between JFK and McCloy stored within the JFK Library could support this hypthosis while, at a minimun, seeming highly unusual on any count.

Could it be that the fox was guarding the Chicken coop?

Is this a piece to the puzzle? I could suggest more.

Jim Root

I am still attempting to understand the relationship of George E. Joannides to Edwin Walker. It seems that they worked together in the late 1940's during the Greek Civil War. Did their relationship continue into the 50's and 60's?

"Oh what a tangled web we weave........"

Jim Root

I for one believe that the John Birch Society (and the right wing fringe) was dangerous enough that the US Intelligence community wanted it infiltrated and did so by incerting Major General Edwin Anderson Walker into their mainstream.

Jim Root