Jim Root

George Bollschweiler has provided some information dealing with this subject on another thread. It is my hope that we can attempt to keep similar information together for easy reference.

George's suggestion that the Deutsche National und Soldaten-Zeitung may have had an office and representative in the USA may help to answer one of my perplexing problems dealing with this part of the assassination story. How did the Deutsche National und Soldaten-Zeitung locate Edwin Walker to interview him at 7:00 AM in Shreveport, LA the morning following the assassination of JFK?

Jim Root

George

Can you provide additional documentation about the "Witiko League, led by Walter Becher?" Do you know where the office was located in the USA?

I am going to bring back a thread that I started several months ago about the Deutsche National Zeitung. Perhaps you could provide some additional insights into this area on that particular thread.

Thanks,

Jim Root

Simone

I have always found that people are shocked to hear that Oswald was, according to the Warren Report, responsible for the attempted assassination of Major General Edwin Anderson Walker seven months before the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

If you are interested in learning more about this person's life just drop me an email.

Jim Root

Lee and Antti

The post assassination life of Edwin Walker is sort of a downward spiral. For example he was not alllowed to travel to Canada because the Canadian Government felt his politics to radical. This ment that he was not allowed to meet with former comrades from the joint American Canadian First Special Services Force. His cross country speaking tours lost steam, he was never considered a great orator, and eventually he disappeared from the mainstream of the anti communist movement in America. It is even reported that he faced a few distastful legal problems.

Because he had "resigned' from the military he gave up his rights to a retirement pension, which would have provided a substantial income. The pension was eventually granted after Walker applied to have it reinstated. Even this request met with controvery. His first request met with a denial followed by appeals, then the eventual reinstatement of full retirement benifits, without comment from the goverment on why they were reinstated.

He is buried in the Center Point, Texas Cemetary along side his mother and father, brother and other family members and friend. The cemetary itself holds the distinction of being the final resting place of the most former Texas Rangers of any cemetary in Texas. His grave marker is the simple military marker available to all soldiers who served in World War II and is located near the back of the cemetary under the shade of a large tree. When I visited the area a few years ago the young man mowing the grass did not even know who the General was or where his grave was located.

I believe that he did know that there was some sort of coverup. His statement of September 29, 1964 in the European edition of the New York Tribune, while new to me, seems consistant with statements he made throughout the remainder of his life, including his final interview. It is my belief that Walker recognized Oswald's picture on TV following the assassination and believed that he would be implicated in a conspiracy (see previous posts). To protect himself, I believe, he provided information to a German publication that would tie himself to Oswald's attempted assassination of him. If Oswald did in fact attempt to assassinate Walker, not because of his political beliefs but because he had been part of an organization that helped him into the Soviet Union, we find a new and different approach to what would be called "the conspiracy."

The Edwin Walker papers are stored at the University of Texas at Austin and are restricted from reseachers. The University library does not povide a release date. To bad. I wonder what infromation his papers contain and IF they would shed some light on the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

Jim Root

Ron

I was hoping you would jump in here.

I have used the "death index" over the years with a great deal of success. Many governemnt officials, etc. to find county of death, birth date (information that can lead to additional information). I think I have posted before the number (146) of people with the name John Hurt who have died since 1932 in the US and did so with a degree of confidence. Now I find enough evidence to support the information I received (followup on wife within the death index and some information from obituaries from the area) to confirm her existence.

The Japanese linguist, John B. Hurt, (it is said) was the nephew of a Virginia Congressman. There were 10 congressional districts (at the time circa 1930) in Virgina and about 18 potential congressmen. I have attempted to cross reference their names to "Hurt" to no avail. It is now obvious that I need to look at West Virginia as well and will attempt to follow up in that area. Will cross reference the maiden name of the wife in this instance as well.

This is the first time that I have not been able to find someone in the death index when I have their name, date of birth, death date, residence, etc.

On a side note, one of the congressmen from Virginia was Howard Worth Smith the author of the Smith Act (Oswald requested Smith Act attorney Jonathan Abt to represent him before he died). This does seem to be a coincidence.

If you are interested and have a flare for genealogy send an email.

Jim Root

TEH INFORMATION FROM THIS POST HAS BEEN UPDATED. Japanese linguist John Bartrum Hurt was a National Security Agency employee till August 1963. He was born in 1904 and died in 1966.

]Jim Root

Lee

FYI: John Scelso and John Whitten are one in the same person.

This article by Jefferson Morley may be of interest to you:

The ‘Scelso Deposition’: What John Whitten Said

Over the years, my Jane Roman story became the subject of intermittent, heated exchanges on alt.assassination.jfk, the most informative JFK chat group on the Internet. In these discussions, people who didn’t know me, had never spoken to me (or to Jane Roman) called me a fraud, a failure, a faker, and a conspiracy theorist. Others suggested I might be on to something. Oliver Stone described me a “very conservative reporter” which I took as a compliment.

For the most part, I stayed out of the online discussions and away from the JFK assassination conferences. I disliked the low ratio of new facts to old opinions. I stayed in touch with John Newman who continued teaching at the University of Maryland while writing a book about U.S. policy toward Cuba in the 1950s and 1960s. We took comfort from new evidence that corroborated what Roman had said.

For example, the JFK Assassination Records Review board released several chapters from an unpublished memoir written by Win Scott, the man who had been serving as chief of the CIA’s Mexico City station in 1963. Scott, renowned among colleagues for his photographic memory, wrote that Oswald was the object of “keen interest” from the moment he arrived in Mexico City.

That was the exact same phrase that Roman had used and it contrasted sharply with the CIA’s official story that Oswald was a passing stranger of no particular interest.

More corroboration came in May 1996 when the JFK Records Review Board released a sworn deposition given by a retired CIA official known only as “John Scelso.” Scelso was a cover name for John Whitten, a former senior staffer in the Western Hemisphere division of the covert operations directorate. Whitten’s identity was so sensitive that it was illegal to publish it until October 2002, when the CIA finally declassified his name.

People who say there’s nothing new to be learned about the Kennedy assassination don’t know the story of John Whitten. A native of Maryland’s Eastern Shore, he fought for the U.S. Army in Europe during World War Ii. He began working on embassy security and became a career CIA man. Brilliant and decisive, he rose in the government’s civil service earning the highest possible GS-17 ranking, and a reputation for cracking espionage puzzles. He won a medal for pioneering the use of the polygraph for the intelligence community. In November 1963, he was trusted.

Less than a day after Kennedy’s death, Dick Helms put John Whitten in charge of the agency’s review of files related to accused assassin Lee Harvey Oswald. Assisted by a staff of 30 people, Whitten went to work. But as he plowed through mountains of paper, Helms thwarted his efforts. When Whitten complained, Helms relieved of his duties. Whitten went back to his desk, kept his own counsel, retired, and moved overseas. In 1978, congressional investigators found him living in self-imposed exile and interviewed him in secret session.

Under oath Whitten described how he had pursued his investigation around the clock for a couple of weeks after the assassination. His testimony confirmed the unusual handling of pre-assassination information about Oswald.

He was asked about the cable of October 10, 1963 which Jane Roman had described as “very dull, very routine.” Whitten was puzzled that someone as senior as Tom Karamessines had signed off on it. Standard agency procedures involving reporting on Americans abroad, he said, did not normally require such high-level attention.

Accounting for Oswald’s Cuba-related activities proved especially difficult, he testified. In early December 1963 Whitten was writing up what he had gleaned from CIA files, when he was invited to the White House for a look at the FBI’s preliminary report on Oswald. Reading the report, Whitten was shocked. The FBI had all sorts of information about Oswald that had never been given to him. Whitten went back to his office realizing that deputy director Dick Helms and counterintelligence chief James Angleton had been withholding “vital information” about the accused assassin from him.

“Could you give us some examples of that?” his interrogator asked.

Whitten remembered quite clearly.

“Yes,” he said. “Details of Oswald’s political activity in the United States, the pro-Cuban activity…” Later on he reiterated the point: “Oswald’s involvement with the pro-Castro movement in the United States was not at all surface[d] to us in the first weeks of the investigation,” he said.

Why would Helms and Angleton not share such information his colleague in charge of the agency’s investigation of Oswald?

Whitten never found out. He testified that as soon as he learned he had been denied key files on Oswald, he complained to Helms around Christmastime 1963. His initial conclusion that Oswald had acted alone, he said, was “obviously, completely irrelevant in view of all this Bureau information.” Helms relieved him of his responsibilities.

Whitten kept his distance from Helms after that experience. He was bothered by Helms’s failure to give him files on Oswald’s Cuba-related activities. He was appalled to learn in the 1970s that Helms had been organizing a conspiracy to kill Castro in November 1963 and failed to share information about the plots with the Warren Commission. Helms’s actions were “completely morally reprehensible,” he said. Like Jane Roman, Whitten was an insider who could recognize the subtleties of what was going on in the CIA’s Directorate of Plans at the time of Kennedy’s death. Unlike Roman, Whitten was bothered by what he saw and said so under oath.

Is Whitten’s deposition important?

John Tunheim, the federal judge who served as chairman of the JFK review board, once told men, “the so-called ‘Scelso deposition’ was perhaps the single most important documents we uncovered.”

Whitten, unfortunately, is not available to comment on it. He died in January 2000. I had attempted to locate him and interview him before his death but failed. I’m not sure it would have made any difference. It would have been illegal for him to talk about the Kennedy assassination on the record with the Washington Post.

Jim Root

Lee

What did the article say about the Edwin Walker incident?

Jim Root

Lee

Based on the post above you might enjoy this historical note.

After the invasion of southern France (during WWII) the First Special Services Force (by then commanded by Col. Edwin Walker) was disbanded. The Canadian Elements were returned to various Canadian Airborne units, etc. The American troops, on the other hand, were kept together and combined with the 99th Battalion and remnants of some elite Ranger units to form the 474th Battalion (Seperate) commanded by Col. Edwin Walker. They were then assigned to Patton's Third Army.

As Patton's Army drove into the Bavarian Alps they stumbled upon Merkers Mine. This huge underground salt mine was being used to store looted Nazi Gold and other treasures. The amount stored was literally tons and in todays dollars would have been worth perhaps billions.

Assigned to transport this treasure..........Col. Edwin Walker's 474th Battalion (seperate).

Jim Root

Pat

I appreciate the comments.

There seems to be at least three levels to American involvement in the Greece after WWII. The first begins immediately after the war and is supportive of the British who were taking the lead in Greece. The second period begins with the announcement that Great Britian will withdraw from Greece and the development and implementation of the Truman doctrine and NATO. The third period is a post Korean War period where Karamessines seems to expand his leadership role.

All three periods are of interest to me in regards to Edwin Walker with the emphisis on the second. During the first period (1945-1949) Karamessines is recruited into the frey and begins to get his feet wet in the world of covert opps. It was during this period that the remnants of the OSS were still running the shows and former members of the First Special Services Force (FSSF) were being recruited to train and work within the framework of this new type of warfare.

During this first period (begining late May of 1946) Edwin Walker was selected for some intense training himself. At a time when the military was being downsized this former commander of the FSSF was first selected to attend the General Staff School. Upon his successful completion he went directly to the Air War College.

The second period of American involvement in Greece begins in 1949 and coincides with Walker going from the Air War College to the Pentagon and the Greek desk. I hate to be redundant but once again Walker's timming puts him in the middle of another historical moment, the Truman Doctrine, our involvement in Greece and the development of NATO, after being prepared, it seems, for nearly three years. By the Korean War, Walker's involvement in Greece ends.

In the third phase of American invovement there is another coincidental connection between what appears to be two Walker associates, Thomas Karamessines and Robert Tryon Frederick. I am still attempting to investigate the potential information that may surround the resignation of General Frederick at this time and Thomas Karamessines' rise within the CIA.

Jim Root

Tim

My 83 year old father gives me a subscription to Readers Digest each year (thank god for parents that teach their children the value of reading). When I saw that Jefferson Morley was the author, I became very excited. Not as excited after reading the article and find myself in agreement with John Simkin when speaking about the dictabelt evidence.

What impresses me about Morley is that he has bucked the mainstream and keeps the assassination of Kennedy on the frontpage with supportable, factual, new evidence. His lawsuit to release additional assassination documents, I believe, will be successful because of his wide readership and good reputation. While some conspiracy theorists are unhappy with others (Posner for example) involved with him in this law suit I am happy to find that so many are willing to raise the funds necessary to continue this struggle.

Morley has been cordial in communication and was surprized to learn that both George Joannides and Thomas Karamessines may have been involved with Edwin Walker during the Greek Civil War. At the time in question (1948-49) there were only (officially) 44 Americans involved in Greece and Walker was running the Greek Desk at the Pentagon making it conceivable that they were associated during this covert operation. I have been successful in identifing where documents from this period are stored but (because of the quantity of documents and there location) the following comments will slow my access:

"Since these files are widely dispersed, we cannot undertake the extensive research necessary to examine the records and identify the pertinent documents. Our staff can assist researchers with their work but cannot perform substantive research for them. We will make the records available in our research room so you or your representative can examine and select documents for reproduction."

The search continues.

On another note, following the Karamessines lead, I have been able to locate some personal correspondence between Allen Dulles and Thomas Karamessines that indicates a rather close relationship between these two men, one of which (Karamessines) was receiving information about Lee Harvey Oswald before the assassination of JFK. Coincidence?

Thank you Jefferson Morley.

Jim Root

Tim

Can you provide or point me in a direction to get more info on Rufus Taylor's military career (some sort of outline would be perfect). I see he was in Japan following Maxwell Taylor but cannot find out his job discription while in Japan (Maxwell Taylor was in China).

Would love to find his billets from the late 1920's till 1959 when he was put in charge of Naval Intelligence. When did he enter Naval Intel?

Over the years I have developed some interesting information dealing with Naval Intel and Army Intel as well as Eisenhower era service infighting that pitted the Army and Navy vs the Air Force for funding and project support. The Polaris missile development and the Army missile program are of interest in this area. Interesting cooperation in these areas that at times included Maxwell Taylor and Edwin Walker.

I keep thinking more and more about the "Liberty" affair! Do you know much about it (especially Frontlet 615)?

Jim Root

Brought back for Lee Forman

Jim Root

Tim

Toss in this quote:

The Commission got the "original Oswald file" from the Office of Naval Intelligence, another compilation of selections from at least three other files. Admiral Rufus Taylor gave instructions "to prepare a file." The original files were even withheld from his superiors in the Defense Department!

Peter Dale Scott comments: "Admiral Taylor's decision to have a file prepared, rather than share raw data, is further evidence that the original files with Oswald records contained truths quite different than those eventually given to the public... The absence of a single file on Oswald might suggest that Oswald was not simply a subject for external investigation, so much as someone with a special relationship to ONI itself."

And now you want to add that he was involved with breaking the Japanese Naval Code (along with John Hurt)? You've got my attention.

As a sidelight, also involved with the "Liberty" affair.

Jim Root

Pat

You pose a great question:

"The strange fact is that the same men who distrusted Nosenko's bona fides also conspired to hide information from the Warren Commission so that the lone-nut scenario could go out unquestioned. One has to ask oneself why this is?"

Perhaps because they knew the truth. Try this senario:

Imagine if you will..... that the Angleton types knew for a fact that Oswald had been used to pass infromation to the Soviets (without Oswald realizing that he was doing what we wanted). We may have known that the Soviets had received the information because it was designed to provide the Russians with the information necessary to down the U-2. Oswald had been identified by the CIA when he had written to the Socialist Workers Party, a few weeks before he joined the Marines, as a potential candidate to be used without being an actual trained agent. Oswald was then put into a classified position dealing with the U-2 and was later helped into the Russia through Helsinki when Edwin Walker (who was on his way from Little Rock, Arkasas to Augsburg, Germany) passed classified information to him (that had been sent to the State Department from the Helsinki Embassy on Oct. 9, 1959) that provides the infromation on how to get easy entry into Russia. When Oswald decides to return to the US, Walker's handler realizes that he could be compromised gives Walker a new assignment to spy on the right wing in America (imagine his surprize when he sees Oswald on TV as the accused assassin of Kennedy, Walker then contacts a German newspaper, but that is a different thread). Oswald receives his visa to return to the US and the Soviets are worried that he may give up a Japanese/Communist intelligence cell that had been used to collect infromation on the U-2. The KGB wants to put themselves in a position to limit the damage if necessary by having Nosenko make contact with the CIA. When Oswald is accused of shooting Kennedy the implications of Soviet complicity are obvious and Nosenko is dispatched to negate this possibe damage. Both sides need to cover there tracks and Nosenko's bonafides are obviously called into question by the Angleton types.

For me this possibility makes to much sense for my own comfort.

Jim Root

Pat and Tim

I have spent a great deal of time thinking about why various people and organizations would have involved themselves within a "cover-up" IF they were not actually involved in a conspiracy to assassinate the President. Robert Kennedy is, of course, the most conspicuous in this area. Hosty's distruction of a note is very suspicious but his actions before the assassination are very professional. His testimony is enlightning, even more so since the revelations of Jefferson Morley and John Neuman can track his notes to the highest levels of the CIA (in reading his testimony it seems that Dulles and McCloy are shocked by the revelation of his November 4th note being made public....it was never assigned an exhibit number!).

To believe that Dulles and McCloy were not aware of US intelligence efforts to destablize foreign governments that were in conflict with US Policy is unbelivable from my perspective. We now know that they were both aware of Nosenko and his defection although the official story was that only Warren was briefed on Nosenko.

This is an interesting train of thought:

"it is important to note that the destruction of evidence or other acts in furtherance of a "cover-up" does not necessarily imply participation in the crime before the fact."

While I am not sure I agree with you I'm also not sure I disagree in dealing with this case, at least with the before the fact aspect. When it comes to this "crime of the century" the coverup is as intriguing as the actual assassination. While some may believe the Warren Report, indepth reading allows one to find fault (with our without intent) with so many aspects of it that we tend to see conspirators everywhere. I for one believe any conspiracy would have to have been conceived by a few individuals at most. The fact that so many conspiracy theories exist (potentially involving so many different groups and people) may be the greatest protection any actual conspirators have/had.

If Oswald had been used by intelligence agencies (both US and foreign) many people would have a reason to cover their behinds. Kennedy had as many enemies as any polititician could ever have had...each wanting to distance themselves from the assassination (in the case of the mafia maybe enjoy having people give them credit for the assassination). In this aspect Oswald may have been the "patsy" that had to be covered up to protect the misdeeds of so many others. Etc. Etc.

The possibility that someone or group may have invisioned and encouraged this type of speculation intrigues me. Is it beyond belief that that person/group would have to be at the highest level of government?

Jim Root

Tim

I am going to lean toward Shanet in this debate. If participation in a coverup is part of the act (accessory after the fact) then I think the Warren Report is full of examples:

"Are you aware of any EVIDENCE indicarting CIA involvement in the assasssination?"

One of my favorites has to do with Oswald's flight from London to Helsinki. The cost of the flight was exactly $111.90 (WR pg 257). In response to a direct question from the WC the CIA only stated that there were no direct flights from London to Helsinki that would have allowed Oswald to check into the Torni Hotel by the time that he, in fact, did check in. A truthful response to the question asked by the Warren Commission could have allowed the commissioners to examine the passenger records of the flights that were available. Would we may have found a sensitive name among those passengers?

Does inpeading the investigation indicate "CIA involvement?"

I do know that the CIA knew where Oswald was working (Morley) and that the motorcade route was planned after this information was available (WC). Was the CIA negligent or culpable? For myself, this is the interesting question speculate upon.

In California, I believe, if a bar tender continues to pour drinks for an obviously drunk patron and the patron is then involved in a accident that kills another human, the bar tender can be held criminally liable.

Jim Root

Tim

I have long considered the possibility that the "real" conspiracy may have been to elect Kennedy to the office of President of the United States. The U-2 incident, as I have stated in earlier posts, weakened the position of Richard Nixon. Imagine a positive outcome to the Paris Summit in 1960 where the Soviets and the US sign some sort of nuclear treaty vs a U-2 shootdown and the failure of the summit. Is it possible that this was the turning point in history that allowed John F. Kennedy the opportunity to win the election?

After the Kennedy election the problems begin when Oswald decides to return to the US. We have Nosenko making contact with the CIA and Walker's Pro Blue Program. Are these two events tied to Oswald? The timming is! But the assassination could not have been planned before the primaries were complete and the election of 1960 held (therefore I have trouble associating the two events).

If there was a conspiracy to elect Kennedy involving the U-2 and Oswald, it would explain the desire to coverup the facts about Oswald after the assassination. But this would also tell us that if there was a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy it would require knowledge of Oswald, the U-2 incident and Oswalds proclivity to violence as shown in his attempt on the life of Maj. Gen. Edwin Anderson Walker.

Very few people would have the ability to put all of this information together and have the ability to direct the motorcade past the TSBD. It is my belief that Maxwell Taylor is a subject to be considered as a person that would have knowledge of all these events leading up to the assassination and would understand that the leading figures in the Government of the United States would have a desire/need to coverup the facts.

Jim Root

Tim

Great information. I agree that Nosenko is an interesting character in the assassination story. If sent by the Soviets to downplay their association with Oswald you have a perplexing problem, "Just who was Oswald woring for?"

We now know that information about Oswald's movements in 1963 were being filtered up to the office of Richard Helms in real time. If the Soviets were aware of and so nervous about Oswald's movements that they dispached Nosenko to the US after the assassination, "Just what do we have with this Oswald?"

In a last interview, Edwin Walker suggested that the Warren Commission had it 80% right but that Oswald was working for both the Soviet KGB and the CIA. Could Walker have been right? How would he know?

Look at a brief timeline for Oswald and overlap Nosenko:

1962

March

3rd: US Embassy receives Oswald's request for a loan

15th: Marina's visa is approved

28th: Lee receives an affidavit of support from Marguerite's employer (remember that it was letters from Marguerite that helped Lee receive an early discharge fromt he Marines).

April

12th: In a letter to Robert, Lee indicates they are not in a hurry to leave since good weather has arrived.

May

10th" The Embassy asks Lee to come and sign the final papers for the departure to America.

18th: Lee leaves his job.

22nd: Lee picks up his exit visa.

24th: The Oswalds arrive in Moscow to visit the Embassy.

June

1st: Lee signs a promissory note for $435.71, and the Oswalds leave for America.

5th - 8th: Nosenko makes first contact with CIA.

13th: The Oswalds arrive in Hoboken, New Jersey.

Is it just a coincidence that Nosenko begins and ends his defection in corrolation to the movements and actions of Oswald?

If you go back further in the record you will find that when Oswald first contacts the Embassy about returing to the United States, a flury of notes pass between the Embassy and the State Department. Within days of deciding that Oswald will be allowed to return to the US, Major General Edwin Walker begins his Pro Blue Program that leads to his resignation from the Army. Is it a coincidence that both the Soviet Union and the US have persons that become associated with Oswald and the assassination whose downfall/rise are tied directly to the movements in time of Lee Harvey Oswald? Is this annomaly related to the assassination or to a previous events in history?

I believe they are related to the U-2 incident and the failure of the Paris Summit (something Oswald was so critical of during his speech at Spring Hill College)!

Jim Root

Shanet

Not sure if I posted this information at any time in the past. I do know I mentioned the book, "The Murder of Admiral Darlan" written by a former member of the OSS named Peter Thompkins. There are some similarities between that political assassination and the assassination of Kennedy. That the book was published in 1964 which may have been opportune from the market place or may have been developed because of the authors insights into the more recent assassination of Kennedy.

At the end of the book Thompkins gives an in depth study of French Intelligence and intrigue that may be interesting to anyone looking into backround on those organizations/persons that were still around in 1963.

With the more recent Morley, Neuman revelations the fact that Thompkins, at the end of World War II, was stationed (with the OSS) in Germany and was working with Frank Wisner and Richard Helms. Thompkins, by the way, is alive and well living in Italy.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...7355_spy04.html

Jim Root

Tim and Eugene

I believe it was the History channel that did a recreation of both the time/movements from the 6th floor "snipers nest" to the lunch room and the movements from Oswald's change of clothes to the Tippit murder scene. As I recall the 6th floor movement down to the lunch room was "easily" accomplished in the time allowed and the person making the movement in no way looked winded. (As I understand it the "coke in hand" issue is still a disputed piece of information)

The movement and time question surrounding the Tippit murder is a bit murky and allows for speculation about what is or is not the truth. There are conflicting eye witnesses' that have Oswald moveing in different directions on different streets, as I recall, creating two conflicting courses that Oswald may have taken to the movie theater. One course allows him to arrive at the Tippit murder scene in time to commit the crime and one does not.

Perhaps others remember the History Channel recreation and can help us out here.

Eugene, I have been in a situation (once) where shots were fired "toward" me. My first thought (and statement) was that someone had thrown some fireworks from a car passing less that 100 yard away from where I was standing. The person next to me (who had hit the ground) made the comment, "Where do you think you're at?" My point: My mind attempted to rationalize the situation by creating an explanation that was non-threatening to me. The reality was different.

Jim Root

Greg and Shanet

Let's for a moment suppose the Altgens photo does in fact show Oswald outside the TSBD. Then we must consider or defend this senerio:

Kennedy is shot within eyesight of Oswald and he immediatley goes back inside the TSBD and up to the lunch room. Then, according to some, Oswald gets a coke and approaches the Dallas policeman (who also enters the TSBD from the same location as Oswald would have) Then, Oswald travels in the opposite direction from which he had just entered the lunch room a few seconds before, (remember the policeman ran into the building in a minimal amout of time) and exits the lunch room. Oswald is identified by the manager who is now with the policeman. After being scene in the lunchroom, placing himself inside the building from which the Warren Commission says the shots were fired from, Oswald then "escapes" out of the building (retracing his steps of moments before) because he, after drinking his coke, realizes someone is setting him up.

Or we can consider that Oswald passed the policeman in the lunchroom area on his way down from an upper floor on his escape route out of the building.

Jim Root

George and Eugene

We each have to decide for ourselves what we do or do not accept when it comes to the information that is available about the assassination. For myself, I believe that the politically astute Oswald, who had traveled to Russia, who had gone to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico, who was passing out flyers for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans, who was interviewed on the Radio, who spoke about his political beliefs at Spring Hill College, who attended a speech given by Edwin Walker and who wrote consistantly to the Socialist Workers Party would have been interested in and aware of President Kennedys visit to Dallas and the route of the motorcade. I find it difficult to believe that he was causually sipping a coke in the lunch room or standing outside, unaware of the event (motorcade) occuring in front of the TSBD (involved or not).

Jim Root

George

I agree that Oswald was "somehow" involved, perhaps very involved. For myself, if he was truly involved, there must be connectivity to his movements and actions during his life from the Marines to his death.

We now know that his movements were monitored at the highest levels of the CIA and who knows what other groups within the intelligence community. This is not a person of minimal interest! It is my belief that all the compartmentalized intelligence groups knew he was of interest but I do not believe they all knew why (which adds to the mystery) and makes the Warren Report (coverup) easier to understand (In my opinion a lot of people were very willing to cover thier own behinds when it came to the information provided to the Warren Commission Staff).

Jim Root

Tim

While Helms is more than an interesting character I do not make him out to be the "big fish." I continue to believe that the trail leads to Maxwell Taylor. The work by Jefferson Morley proves that information about Oswald was making it to the Office Richard Helms but I do not rule out the possibility that that information would also have made it to the ultimate head of Military Intelligence (the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Taylor). But the Army Intelligence file on Oswald has been destroyed....suspicious in itself.

Chester Victor Clifton, Jr.l, senior military aide to President John F. Kennedy, would be in a position to influence the motorcade. Appointed to this position by Taylor, Clifton was in the motorcade on November 22, 1963. It is also interesting to point out that Clifton's first commanding officier, upon graduation from West Point , was Edwin Walker.

The other piece of the puzzle that I believe is important, whoever planned the route past where Oswald was working would also need to be familiar with and suspect that the attempted assassination of Walker could be attributed to Oswald. I believe this narrows the focus substanially.

Jim Root