Jim Root

James

Do you know his final rank? How did you become aware of this person?

Jim Root

Shanet

Yes, ie Maxwell Taylor

Jim Root

PS Ever heard of Cord Meyer? He may have had a whole different motive.

James

Strange name, Harrod Miller. Do you have a military rank for him? I can usually get some infromation if I know the rank.

This is what I have found in the last few hours:

Harrod Miller: Born Dec. 5, 1900 in Missouri

Died Sept. 1966 in Washington County, Fayettville, Arkansas

SS# 379-38-2778 issued in the State of Michigan

Married sometime before 1930

Stationed in Corozal Balboa, District, Panama in 1930 as a Census Officier in the Signal Corps

By 1935 he was working with Friedman's group of Code Breakers in Washington D.C. (big jump from Panama)

Why do you think there is a connection to Taylor and or Walker?

Jim Root

James

"Now, I wonder if this has anything to do with Gary Powers' U2 being shot down?"

....well a long road that may lead to that and other things begining in the 1930's.

Are you familiar with the phrase "ferret mission" or "ferret flight?" These were first used by the Allies during WWII to snoop out enemy electronic capabilities....the phrase continued to be in vogue....Powers flight was considered a "ferret" operation. In many ways the raid on Dieppe (officially regarded as a failure) was a "ferret" operation that resulted in the capture of a German radar installation.

To my knowledge the first official "ferret" mission traced a Japanese radar signal of a quality that resembled the most advanced that the United States possessed. That radar station was located on the Island of Kiska in the Alluetians. Two battles led to the surrounding and taking of Kiska and the capture of that radar installation. The first unit on shore at Kiska was the 3rd Regiment of the First Special Services Force commanded by Colonel Edwin Walker.

I found John Hurt in connection with the research on this episode in the life of Edwin Walker. The connection with Hurt and Taylor came years later. The connection of Walker with an understanding of the nature of "ferret" missions may have began substantially before the shoot down of Francis Gary Powers.

Jim Root

James

First thanks...I'm happy to find someone with knowledge about "magic," Hurt, etc.

When was that picture taken and do you know where it was taken?

Are you familiar with Fort Monmouth, New Jersey or have any ideas about what was going on there in the 1930's?

What else do you know about radar and it's relation to this thread?

Very curious connections.

Jim Root

Shanet

I may be to simple minded but I like the old fashioned, "Col. Mustard in the Kitchen with the pipe wrench" approach.

What I mean, rather than a hugh conspiracy; how about one man who knew all the players, who knew the positioning and knew that everyone would be looking over their own shoulders, protecting their own rears, wondering who really did it as they willingly participated in a cover-up that would protect there own past misdeeds. Someone who would benifit from the assassination and could justify it in their own mind exactly along the lines that you have suggested within your posts.

Jim Root

Shanet

That type of order going out one day before the assassination is a serious statement! It would have had to be approved at the highest levels of government but at a time when Kennedy seems to have been questioning our involvement in Vietnam. Considering that it follows the Diem coup so closely it makes one wonder, "who let the dogs out?" And who was guarding the "hen house?"

Jim Root

Lee

It is my understanding that the Trade Mart and therefore the route decission came down from Washington. Info may be in the "Big Fish" thread but comes from the Warren Report.

Jim Root

James

You amaze me....but for the first time I can say, "I already had that picture." Thanks for posting it because I don't have that ability, John had to help me post my picture for this forum.

Of the group you named, Friedman, Kullback, Rowlett and Sinkov, I believe, are in the NCS Hall of Fame (Hurt has been left out). I wonder why? By the way, David Kahn is the one who placed Hurt in the "old munitions building" at the same time Maxwell Taylor was there. Taylor was also, at that time, translating Japanese military manuals into English for the Army making a Taylor - Hurt (both fluent in Japanese/both top security clearence) connection a very real possibility.

Edwin Walker was stationed at Schofield Barracks (which was associated with our listening post in Hawaii) until November 5, 1941 when he was suddenly recalled to the United States. It was by the end of October 1941 that the Magic group had decerned that the Japanese would launch some sort of attack by the end of November. As we all know they were close, December 7th 1941 being the actual date. If Walker had been at Pearl Harbor on the 7th he may have remained in the Pacific Theater for the remainder of the War. Instead he would go on to command the elitly trained First Special Services Force which was initially formed to destroy the heavy water production in Norway and stop the Nazi Atomic Bomb Program.

Once again a curiosity of dates in the life of Edwin Anderson Walker.

Jim Root

Shanet

Are you sure of that Phoenix date, November 21, 1963....This is getting deep.

McGeorge Bundy was part of what I call the "Italian Group" during WWII (see backround in the "Why Assassination Necessary" thread) and worked with John J. McCloy and Maxwell Taylor in the surrender of Italy and the formation of civilian government in occupied territories.

Wasn't Operation Phoenix run by William Colby who came to the OSS via the 99th Battalion (later commanded by Edwin Walker) during WWII?

Wasn't Operation Phoenix similar to covert operations carried out during the Greek Civil War while Edwin Walker was running the Greek desk at the Pentagon? The Greek Civil War where Thomas Karamesssines (the person in Richard Helms office that was monitoring Oswald's movements) got his start in the CIA.

Does this sound like "Seven Days in May?"

Jim Root

The last few weeks have been extremely exciting in my quest for answers to my questions that surround the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Many pieces of the puzzle seem to be falling into place for me ("Big Fish" and "Route of the Dallas Motorcade") in particular.

It just occured to me that the Japanese linguist, John Hurt, that worked with Maxwell Taylor in the "old munitions building" prior to WWII and whom I believe Edwin Walker was associated with prior to that time, was a Japanese linguist. DUH!

John Hurt also had a security clearence of the highest level while working within the "Magic" program that broke the Japanese code during WWII. This information was not declassified until after the assassination of JFK (giving reason to hide the name of this John Hurt if this is in fact the "real" John Hurt that Oswald was attempting to contact while in custody after the assassination).

If this John Hurt continued working for intelligence it could be assumed he would continue working in association with the Japanese language and issues centering around Japan. DUH!

Astugi airbase is in Japan and this is where some people believe that Oswald first made contact with elements of some intelligence organization/s.

Does any of this make any sense to anyone else or is it a dead end road?

Jim Root

John

Thank you for this thread, the timming is perfect.

In the past I have referred to the Hosty note of November 5th that provided Washington with information about where Oswald was working. Within the last few hours I have learned that this note/information was never given a WC Exhibit number and was in fact written/sent on November 4th. In other words the note has been "lost" to history except for a few paragraphs buried within the WC records. My "Big Fish" thread talks alot about this note which you can find reference to in the testimony of James P. Hosty:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hosty.htm

The fact that this note is now "lost" only adds luster to its value. Within Hosty's testimony we find that it's existance is confirmed by the fact that the note generated Dallas regaining the designation as "Origin" for the Oswald file (the information arrived from New Orleans on November 22, 1963).

In the Jefferson Morley article, "What Jane Roman Said" we find that a previous note from Hosty made it to Thomas Karamessines (Richard Helms office) in a timely manner. It is easy to speculate that the note of November 4, 1963 would arrive in the same office before the motorcade route was decided.

http://www.history-matters.com/essays/fram...RomanSaid_1.htm

In rereading the Hosty Testimony it almost seems as if this information (Nov. 4th note) takes Dulles and McCloy by surprize. If so the "rogue agents" group would find this of interest. For myself there is one other element though. Whoever planned the route would also have to suspect/know that Oswald had taken a shot at General Edwin Anderson Walker for the whole mess to work.

Jim Root

John

I brought up the Thomas Karamessines information that deals with 1967 intelligence involvement in the press and you now reply with the Phil Graham interest in school desegregation at Little Rock in 1957.

A footnote would show that Karamessines involvement in the Greek Civil War would overlap Edwin Walkers involvment in the same event just as Little Rock would involve General Walker as well!

"The second story involves Robert Kennedy. He was was furious with PG’s role in this and relations were bad between him and the Grahams. After the assassination of JFK, KG met RFK at a dinner. They both began having a go at LBJ. RFK then turned to her and said: “Phil made him president?” KG asked him what he meant. RFK told her he could not tell her but maybe he would be able to tell the full story someday in the future."

By "making" LBJ the vice president Graham would have placed Johnson in the position to become president upon the assassination of LBJ. Nothing sinister here. On the other hand, if Graham and others had helped JFK become president and positioned LBJ as the vice president we could have a "full story" that would be interesting to hear "someday in the future." It might also explain alot about RFK as well.

Jim Root

Nic

That really hurts, your making me feel really old. Your grandmother must be about my age because I remember the assassination so vividly.

By the way I was in Washington shortly after Ronald Reagan was shot and stayed directly accross the street from where it had occured. A) He was not killed and the attempted assassin (who lived) turned out to be a "lone nut" which made everyone feel a little more comfortable.

When Reagan was shot we had Alexander Haig comming on television saying everything was all right because he was in Washington taking care of the world. Nothing could have worried me more! I was relieved when it was anounced that Reagan had survived (and that his doctor was a Republican)!

But that is another part of history. By the way I'm one of your 2% of conservatives that still feels that the whole truth does not exist in the matter of the JFK assassination (real conservatives don't like big brother in control). Nic, it crosses over political boundaries (no need to be prejudice in this area).

Jim Root

Paul

"Evolution is a theory, too, but overwhelmingly supported by the evidence."

But if an "all powerful God" does in fact exist could that God not create a history that is the evidence that supports evolution? Or would you place limits upon what an that "all powerful God" can do?

Jim Root

Steve

I have long considered the possibility that Major General Edwin Walker (resigned) was planted by the government to spy on Right Wing groups within America. His military backround would suggest this as a legitimate possibility. If true it gives the whole assassination story a very different twist. The fact that his move to the right and his resignation from the military coincides with Oswald's application to return to the United States from the Soviet Union is just one more piece in a large puzzle.

Jim Root

Shanet, I read with interest your posts.

John

Thought this might interest you:

"1967. Thomas H. Karamessines in 1967 started an operation to handle the antiwar press. On 8/4/67 a telegram re the new special operations group (SOG) in the counterintel section. Angleton appointed Dick Ober to coordinate SOG and expand his Ramparts investigation to encompass the entire underground press -- some 500 newspapers. SOG was designated as MHCHAOS. CIA assigned domestic political espionage the highest level of priority. SOG ops grew to sixty field agents as well as other CIA compartments. Due to the large number of reports generated computers were used for the first time to handle the traffic. CIA coordinated efforts with army agents, the local police and the FBI. Penetration of antiwar periodicals (his primary mission). John Ferrera a student was recruited to penetrate various antiwar media. details of Ferrera's successes. the FBI used its agents to create dissension within protest groups. Ober had relied on the CIA's domestic contract service (DCS) but was experiencing resistance. pp. 26-41Mackenzie, A. CIA WAGES WAR ON AMERICA from 'SECRETS: THE CIA'S WAR AT HOME', University of California Press, Berkeley, CA, 1997. Posted in a-infozine V1 #654. The A-Infos News Service."

The part about Army agents I find of particular interest when looking at domestic spying.

Jim Root

David

Ever since reading the Warren Report (over a decade ago) I have attempted to understand the man and recreate the events in the life of Edwin Walker. I have come to refer to him as a Forrest Gump type of character who, when researched, seems to appear as a footnote to many historical events of the 20th Century. I have repeatedly visited his home town and had numerous conversations with former comrades and neighbors in an attempt to understand a man that, discounting his far right activities of the 1960's, would, by any measure, be considered a GREAT American hero (in my opinion his Right Wing activity may have been a cover to gather intelligence).

In my opinion one of the greatest cover-ups of the Warren Report is the fact that Walker's life has been trivialized into a few events after 1961 while disregarding his life, career and associations from 1909 till 1961. In particular I find that his relationship with Maxwell Taylor is of great interest to the events surrounding the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Walker's travels, within his military career, are surpizing when you overlay the historical context of military intelligence, covert operations and international relations upon them. Starting from 1934 his military career becomes, to me, of unique interest for this forum.

Jim Root

James

Thanks for the picture. What is the time frame?

Jim Root

Taken from "The Sword and the Pen" by John M. Taylor (son of Maxwell)

"By 1949 the Allies were in the process of returning West Germany to self-government. Even as the Soviets were ending the Berlin blockade, Germany's new political parties elected seventy-four-year-old Konrad Adenauer Chancellor and established a new capital at Bonn. Clay (General Lucius) retired as military governor for the United States and was replaced by a high commissioner, financier John J. McCloy, with offices in Frankfurt. McCloy wanted a commandant for the American sector of Berlin who could handle both political and military responsibilities. The Pentagon was at least as powerful a voice as the State Department in matters relating to occupation policy..... (General Maxwell) Taylor, who had come to know McCloy slightly at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York City, was at the top of the list. Once in Berlin, he would "wear two hats." As U.S. Commander, Berlin (USCOB), he would report in strictly military matters to General Thomas Handy in Heidelberg, in political matters, he was responsible to McCloy in Framlfirt."

What Maxwell Taylor's son leaves out is that the two had also worked together in negotiating the surrender of Italy and the set up of a civilian government there during World War II.

Besides being tennis partners, it seems Taylor and McCloy had a good working relationship for many years prior to the assassination of JFK.

Jim Root

In my opinion the assassination of JFK put our nation into what I refer to as a sort of national post traumatic stress syndorme.

Where the perfect world that we were taught that we lived in no longer existed.

Jim Root

Paul

A man called "Michael Stone’ arrived in Tel Aviv in January 1948, to confront a nearly impossible situation. The widely separated Jewish settlements in Palestine were surrounded by a sea of hostile Arabs. The newly created Israel would have no defensible borders, no air power, a few tanks and ancient artillery pieces and almost no arms or ammunition. The Haganah was an effective underground organization but it had no experience as a regular national army. Facing it were well-supplied Arab armies determined to drive the Jews into the sea. The pro-Arab British administration in Palestine prevented the importation of military supplies to the Israelis.’

“Undaunted, Stone designed a command structure for Israel's new army and wrote manuals to train it, adapting his experience at Ranger school to the Haganah's special needs. He identified Israel's weakest points as the scattered settlements in the Negev and the new quarter of Jerusalem. When Israel declared independence and the Arab armies attacked in May 1948, Israel was ready, thanks to Stone's planning. His hit-and-run tactics kept the Egyptian army in the Negev off balance. When the Jewish section of Jerusalem was about to fall, Marcus ordered the construction of a road to bring additional men and equipment to break the Arab siege just days before the United Nations negotiated a cease fire. Israel had withstood the Arab assault with its borders virtually intact. In gratitude, Ben Gurion named Mickey Marcus Lieutenant General, the first general in the army of Israel in nearly two thousand years.” American Jewish Historical Society

David “Mickey” Marcus, aka Michael Stone was one of the first members of the United States Army to fight for/with a foreign nation after the creation of the CIA. Marcus was, to say the least an interesting figure in history.

From: Cast A Giant Shadow, The Story of Mickey Marcus, Ted Berkman writes:

Late in 1947 "Michael Stone,’ an ostensible ‘foundry worker’ with meaty arms, a booming laugh but no sign of his West Point ring, bounced into the Tel Aviv office of David Ben-Gurion. "We're in trouble, Boss."

Three years earlier, with D-Day looming, the Pentagon's Civil Affairs Division had faced the prospect of administering three hundred million people in newly liberated territories. Reluctantly, C.A.D. chief John Hilldring agreed to have his chief trouble-shooter, Mickey Marcus, "observe" the occupation scene from London. D-Day passed, with no word from Mickey. Finally General Hilldring was able to reach Lt. Gen. Walter Bedell Smith, allied commander in France.

"I'm looking for one of my boys who was detached in London, Colonel Marcus."

"Mickey Marcus? He's over here somewhere, John. Landed with the 101st Airborne."

"He did what?"

"Came in with Max Taylor's outfit, the first day."

"The first? But that was three weeks ago. Where is he now?"

"I wouldn't know, John. He's been all over the lot. But I've got a war on my hands. I can't go playing wet nurse to your colonels."

Capitalizing on old West Point acquaintance with Airborne General Maxwell Taylor, Mickey had bluffed his way aboard a C-46 and, innocent of previous jump experience, joined 10,000 paratroopers descending on France. Landing safely, he assembled a combat team and never stopped, running into an astonished Max Taylor, who confessed to "a sneaking admiration for a guy who could have been parked in a comfortable hotel room."

Back home in 1947, from France and Yalta and Nuremberg, Mickey was looking forward to a peaceful life as a Brooklyn lawyer when an emissary from Israel knocked on his door. The new state desperately needed a senior military adviser. Mickey scoured the landscape; the only door that was open was his own."

Within this story we find the names of Maxwell Taylor, a long time friend and John Hildring the CAD (Civil Affairs Division of the State Department) Chief. John Hildring along with presidential advisor David Niles would play a leading role in shaping US policy leading up to the creation of a Jewish State.

Quoting from David T. Zabecki

“On a warm July day in 1948, a funeral was held at the U.S. Military Academy in New York for David Daniel Marcus, class of 1924. In many ways it was a typical West Point funeral, with a bugler, a firing party and a number of distinguished mourners. In one respect, however, the ceremony was unique. Although an American flag covered his coffin, Marcus was the first soldier buried at West Point who had died fighting under another nation's flag. Only two weeks before his death, he had been appointed the first divisional level field commander in the army of the fledgling state of Israel.’

“Using his training experience as justification, Marcus tried to talk the Army into giving him a field command with a Ranger unit, but he was unsuccessful. In the spring of 1943, Marcus was posted back to the Pentagon to become chief of planning for the War Department's Civil Affairs Division (CAD), headed by Maj. Gen. John H. Hilldring. For most of the rest of the war, Marcus, now a full colonel, found himself on a whirlwind tour of the corridors of power.’

“While at CAD, Marcus served as a legal and military government adviser at some of the war's most important Allied conferences. Those included Cairo in November 1943; Dumbarton Oaks, where the United Nations was born; and Teheran, Yalta and Potsdam, where the postwar world order was forged. According to the citation for his Distinguished Service Medal (an unusually high service decoration for a colonel), Marcus played a key role in the "negotiation and drafting of the Italian Surrender Instrument, the Instrument of Unconditional Surrender of Germany, and the international machinery to be used for the control of Germany after her total defeat."

Although locked into a general staff job, Marcus did figure out a way to make one trip to the front lines. In early May 1944, he convinced Hilldring to send him to London on temporary duty "to provide liaison and act as observer in the implementation of military government policies for France." At first Hilldring was pleased because Marcus managed to answer on the spot most of the civil affairs questions that usually wound up at the Pentagon. Then, in the second week of June, Hilldring realized that he had not heard from Marcus since the end of May. After a few transatlantic phone calls, Hilldring learned from Lt. Gen. Walter Bedell Smith that Marcus was "somewhere in France," having jumped on D-Day, June 6, with the 101st Airborne Division.

Marcus used a very elastic interpretation of his orders from Hilldring, combined with the fact that he had been a fellow cadet at West Point with the 101st's commander, Maj. Gen. Maxwell Taylor (class of 1922), to get himself on a Curtiss C-46 in the first wave. Of all the soldiers who jumped with the 101st that day, only Marcus and one other had never jumped before.’

“Once on the ground in Normandy, Marcus collected groups of the widely scattered paratroopers and organized them into patrols. He led several of those patrols himself, engaging in firefights with German units and, on one occasion, freeing a group of captured U.S. paratroopers. As the 101st regrouped over the next few days, Marcus finally bumped into Taylor, who asked him, "What the hell are you doing here?" Marcus characteristically replied, "Oh, just looking around." Back in Washington, a frustrated Hilldring finally had to issue the order: "Find Marcus. Arrest him if you have to--but send him back!" Shortly after that, Marcus was on a plane to the United States, still in his dirty field uniform.’

“Immediately after the end of the fighting in Europe, General Lucius D. Clay, commander of U.S. occupation forces in Germany, requested that Marcus be assigned to his staff. Clay's standing instructions at the time were that all senior officers in Germany were to visit the recently liberated Dachau concentration camp. As a civil affairs officer, Marcus was well-acquainted with Nazi wartime atrocities. But even that knowledge did not prepare him for the horrors he saw at Dachau. He had never been a Zionist, but now he started to rethink his position on a future Jewish state.’

“During his tour in Germany, Marcus served as executive for internal affairs of the U.S. Group Control Council, then its acting chief of staff, and then the U.S. secretary general in occupied Berlin. Much of his time and energy was devoted to improving conditions for the vast numbers of displaced persons in Europe. Despite his anger over Nazi treatment of the Jews, at a White House conference Marcus argued strongly (along with John J. McCloy) against adopting the drastic Morganthau Plan, which would have reduced postwar Germany to an agricultural state--one vast farmland.

In early 1946, Hilldring managed to get Marcus back from General Clay, this time to head the Pentagon's War Crimes Division. Marcus was responsible for selecting the judges, prosecutors and lawyers for the major war crimes trials in Germany and Japan. He attended the Nuremberg Trials, where one of his main concerns was the complete documentation of Nazi atrocities for future generations.”

At the end of the War we find Marcus rising to the position of U.S. Secretary General in occupied Berlin where he would be working with Richard Helms, Peter Thompkins and Frank Wisner of the OSS. But it is as a CAD officer and the negotiations that led to the surrender of Italy that I find the most interesting in relation to the assassination of JFK.

David Marcus, although he perished in 1948, was in 1943 part of what I have come to call the Italian group who first came together in North Africa and then moved with US troops to Italy and beyond. To many names in this “old boys” network pop up in the Kennedy assassination story. The events that were occurring within the State Department and the Office of the Secretary of War in 1943 would, in my opinion, change world history.

The rest of what I will be writing will be drawn primarily from, UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II, Special Studies, CIVIL AFFAIRS:

SOLDIERS BECOME GOVERNORS by Harry L. Coles and Albert K. Weinberg Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 62-60068 First Printed 1964-CMH Pub 11-3

With the liberation of Sicily the State Department found that the Civilian Authorities within State were unable to provide for the administration of civilian government in occupied territories. Within a short period of time Assistant Secretary of State John Hildring and Assistant Secretary of War John J. McCloy were tasked with making some form of Government work in the portions of land that were coming under Allied control in Europe. “The Army thus did not need to press for the supply responsibility which the President assigned; it received the assignment, and indeed a much larger mission in other civil affairs matters, simply by default.”“

"Had the (original) plan been carried out, the history of American participation in civil affairs would have provided a most interesting test of a novel scheme of control peculiarly appropriate for a democracy. The failure to carry it out meant placing undue tax upon the Army’s administrative energies. And , since the control of administration necessarily entails an involvement in problems of policy, the failure also placed upon soldiers the responsibility of political and economic judgments which often were outside their normal sphere and, though not necessarily beyond their competence, certainly beyond their inclination.”

We find that suddenly the Army, under the leadership of John J. McCloy was tasked with involving themselves in the convoluted world of Italian politics. Chief negotiator was David Marcus and the primary “go between” became his friend, General Maxwell Taylor. By April of 1943 the War Department was in the civilian control business.

“[Msg, Eisenhower to Brig Gen Maxwell D. Taylor, Actg Chief, AMM, 5 Oct 43, ACC files, 10000/100/3]

♦ ♦ ♦ The Marshal has shown every willingness to co-operate effectively but failure to declare war is militating against the position of the Italian Government and the recognition we can accord it. I am well aware that His Majesty and his family, the Marshal and other members of the Government are personally exerting themselves to the utmost to inspire resistance to the Germans, but in the matter of formal declaration of war they must act decisively and without further delay. The world will understand decisive action but further temporizing will be interpreted as a desire on the part of the Italian Government to evade definite responsibility. I repeat that you should present this matter to the proper authorities in the most emphatic way as I consider it of vital importance at this stage of relations between Italy and the United Nations.”

By October 1943 we find Maxwell Taylor in the roll of Acting Chief, American Military Mission a phrase that would, in later years, be associated with covert operations. In Taylor’s official West Point bio this position is not recorded. We also find Taylor in the position of official arm twister for Eisenhower. Marcus is writing the terms of the surrender and John J. McCloy is the man overseeing the whole show.

The arm twisting by the CAD and the War Department continues until the capture of Rome, at which time James Jesus Angleton is given the Rome Office of the OSS and the beginnings of US controlled puppet governments becomes a reality and is mirrored in Greece, Iran, Guatamala, etc., etc.

Jim Root

John

It seems that in many of the theories you presented here that Oswald, or an Oswald impersonator, is a part of the conspiracy while in a few he is not. Seems the theories haven't gotten to far away from this particular part of the crime.

Jim Root

PS I do like reading several of Epsteins interviews.

Don

How do you feel about Walker being a possible plant to spy on the right?

In my research on the man, many of the soldiers that served under him are surprized by his alledged racism. Never seemed to have been apparent while he was in the Army. His Pro Blue Program was anti-communist dogma and the "racist" label just seems to have been added for good measure.

"Ted" Walker would say to any order that was given to him, "check" and then proceed to carry it out no matter what the danger.

Jim Root

Paul

I am sorry that I have not responded sooner to your last post. Computer failures and the duties of “other hats” have delayed my posting.

I was happy to read that you have knowledge of David Marcus. He is a remarkable historical figure and I will attempt to draw a connection between him, John J. McCloy, Maxwell Taylor and James Jesus Angleton in my next post (two previous attempts at making this post have failed).

First I would like to provide some excerpts from the Ruby's Lie Detector Test and information taken form Appendix XVI of the Warren Report dealing with the Biography of Jack Ruby.

First, let me provide information taken from the Testimony of Mr. Bell P. Herndon about the lie detector test that he administered to Jack Ruby.

Mr. Specter.

Would there be any difference in psychological reactions, Mr. Herndon, on a pattern of deception which the subject considered insignificant as opposed to a pattern of deception which the subject considered significant?

Mr. Herndon.

Generally the concept of the polygraph technique is that we are attempting to find out what a man's physiological responses will be in any area where he is attempting to deceive. The content of the actual deception is not particularly important. We want to get a tracing of where he is attempting to deceive. Now under a situation such as Mr. Ruby was in here, it is more probable that he is more concerned about these relevant questions than these irrelevant or control-type questions. In other words, the relevant questions have more to do with his well-being or what he is trying to prove to the Commission. However, the chart here still shows that he attempted to deceive with regard to what considered insignificant, but it tends to indicate to me that he will respond to a practice of deception, if that answers your question.

Looking at the statement, “The content of the actual deception is not particularly important. We want to get a tracing of where he is attempting to deceive.” Can we find where Ruby attempts to deceive? Are some insignificant questions significant?

Mr. Specter.

Would you start there on series 3a with the relevant questions, the responses and your evaluation of any significant psychological deviation, please?

Mr. Herndon.

This particular series 3a was what would be called a modified peak of tension series. Ruby was carefully instructed prior to the series that four relevant questions were going to be asked in a consecutive order.

Question No. 3: "Did you first decide to shoot Oswald on Friday night?" He responded "No."

Question No. 4: "Did you first decide to shoot Oswald on Saturday morning?" He responded "No."

Question No. 5: "Did you first decide to shoot Oswald Saturday night?" He responded "No."

Question No. 6: "Did you first decide to shoot Oswald Sunday morning?" He responded "Yes."

These are the only relevant questions in this series. A review of the chart with regard to his responses in this series reveals that Ruby's blood pressure continually rose from the question No. 3 until it reached a peak just as question No. 6 was asked. In addition it was noted that there was a rather noticeable change in his breathing pattern as question No. 6 was approached. There is a slight impact in the GSR tracing as question No. 6 is approached. This would mean to me in interpreting the chart that Ruby reached a peak of tension as the question No. 6 was about to be asked in which he responded "Yes" to "Did you first decide to shoot Oswald Sunday morning?" This particular type of series cannot be interpreted with regard to whether or not there was any deception, but it does indicate that Ruby built up a physiological peak of tension to the time of Sunday morning with regard to his decision of shooting Oswald.

We have an interesting statement here, “This particular type of series cannot be interpreted with regard to whether or not there was any deception, but it does indicate that Ruby built up a physiological peak of tension to the time of Sunday morning with regard to his decision of shooting Oswald.” Did Ruby’s first thoughts of shooting Oswald begin on Friday night? Mr. Herndons dialog with Mr. Specter continues:

Mr. Specter.

Is there any correlation between the building up of a peak of tension and the accurate answer to the series?

Mr. Herndon.

In normal usage of polygraph technique where a peak of tension is used, if the series is effective, the party will usually respond to a particular item which happens to be the most pertinent with regard to the offense. In this case it appears that Ruby projected his entire thoughts and built up a physiological peak of tension to the point of Sunday morning.

Does this infer that the build up of a “physiological peak of tension to the point of Sunday morning” with regards to the questions or to the actual events? With each question was he telling a greater lie?

The questions from series six displayed a point were Ruby may have been less than truthful but the question was insignificant, to a degree.

From a review of Mr. Ruby's polygrams, on series 6, it was noted that there were no significant physiological variations to his response to the relevant questions. It was noted that Mr. Ruby did display slight suppression in his breathing pattern, and a relative decrease in blood pressure with an increase in the heart amplitude at question No. 7. This question was: "Did you ever overcharge a customer?" Mr. Ruby replied "No." However, after the series, this question was discussed with him briefly, and he did make mention of the fact that there had been some trouble at his nightclub with regard to the waitresses and big bills. This could be interpreted as a possible deception pattern in that he hedged with regard to the question "Did you ever overcharge a customer." The total chart minutes of series No. 6 was 2 minutes 50 seconds.

In this series 6 question it is easy to understand that Ruby may have lied. But since it was a control question it was just passed by, as were other control questions as not “significant.”

In series 6 we find another “control question” with similar “possible deception pattern(s)”

Mr. Specter.

Were there any other significant findings, in series No. 7?

Mr. Herndon.

There was a significant change in his breathing pattern and also a slight decrease in his blood pressure when I asked him the question "Did you attend the synagogue regularly?"

However, this is a control type question, and as later discussed with him there was some area of doubt in his mind as to whether he attended the synagogue regularly as much as he would like to. The total chart minutes on series 7 was 2 minutes 55 seconds.

Mr. Herndon.

Series 9 contains 7 questions, all being relevant.

Question No. 1: "Did you ever meet Oswald at your post office box?" Mr. Ruby replied "No."

Question No. 2: "Did you use your post office mail box to do any business with Mexico or Cuba?" Mr. Ruby replied "No."

Question No. 3: "Did you do business with Castro Cuba?" Mr. Ruby replied "No."

Question No. 4: "Was your trip to Cuba solely for pleasure?" Mr. Ruby replied "Yes."

Question No. 5: "Have you now told us the truth concerning why you carried $2,200 in cash on you?" Mr. Ruby replied "Yes."

Question No. 6: "Did any foreign influence cause you to shoot Oswald?" Mr. Ruby replied "No."

Question No. 7: "Did you shoot Oswald because of any influence of the underworld?" Mr. Ruby replied "No."

In interpreting his chart with regard to this particular series of questions, there is no noticeable significant deviation in his physiological pattern except at question No. 6. According to my notation on the chart, Ruby moved his head at this point, and there was a deviation caused by this movement in his blood pressure tracing and also in his pneumograph tracing. His heart rate maintained a consistent rate of approximately 66 to 72 heart beats per minute throughout this series. No significant changes.

As I have posted in earlier threads:

Mr. Specter.

Will movement or speaking cause a variation in the tracings ordinarily, Mr. Herndon?

Mr. Herndon.

Yes. Body movements or speaking any phrase or sentence would certainly cause changes in the physiological patterns as displayed on the polygraph. I made notation of that, however, and that explains the changes On question No. 2, Mr. Ruby did show a significant drop in the relative blood pressure. This question pertained to: "Did you go to the Dallas police station at any time on Friday November 22, 1963, before you went to the synagogue? I asked him about this question later when he responded "No," and I noticed a physiological change. He advised that there was some man by the name of John Rutledge, and he made an association with proceedings at the trial which I have reason to believe this gentleman, John Rutledge, differed with what Ruby stated as to when he went to the synagogue. Due to the nature of this change, however, it is possible that it was caused by a body motion that I failed to detect during the actual response.

I notice that the cardio pen dropped all the way down and hit what we call the limit screws. This frequently is caused by a sudden rapid shift in his body position, and this change could have been caused by a body movement.

With regard to the other relevant questions in this series, question 4, question 6, and question 8, there was no significant deviation from his normal physiological patterns.

Also in series 3, question No. 7 is of interest. Mr. Ruby was asked: "While in the service did you receive any disciplinary action?" There is a noticeable rise in his blood pressure after he responded "No." This question had been discussed rather thoroughly with him, and after the series was run, he admitted that he had been called in before his commanding officer regarding a brawl he had while in the military service. He also commented: "Evidently you are getting a good reading." This could be interpreted as a deception pattern inasmuch as in his mind he realized he had been in some trouble in the military service; however, did not want to truthfully answer the question as he considered it insignificant.However, he did admit that he had been in some trouble with his commanding officer regarding-fighting. This is considered a Control question, and its response is greater than his response to the previous relevant question which I had related.

Looking at this event, while Ruby was in the military, more closely we find in Appendix XVI the details of this subject are dealt with more closely. Why did he lie about this subject and after getting caught make the statement, "Evidently you are getting a good reading."

Two persons who recalled Ruby while he was in the Army Air Forces asserted that he was extremely sensitive to insulting remarks about Jews. When, during an argument, a sergeant called Ruby a "Jew bastard," Ruby reportedly attacked him and beat him with his fists.

We also find in Ruby’s biography:

Ruby, with several friends, frequently attempted to disrupt rallies of the German-American Bund. One acquaintance reported that Ruby was responsible for "cracking a few heads" of Bund members. Apparently he joined in this activity for ethnic rather than political reasons. The young men in the group were not organized adherents of any particular political creed, but were pool hall and tavern companions from Ruby's Jewish neighborhood who gathered on the spur of the moment to present opposition when they learned that the pro-Nazi and anti-Semitic Bund movement was planning a meeting. Hyman Rubenstein testified that Ruby would fight with any person making derogatory comments about, his ethnic origins, and others have stated that Ruby would fight with anyone he suspected of pro-Nazi or anti-Semitic tendencies.

And;

Following his return from the Army, Ruby was described as ready to fight with any person who insulted Jews or the military. Earl Ruby testified that on one occasion in 1946, Jack returned from downtown Chicago with his suit covered with blood. He explained at that time that he had fought with a person who had called him a "dirty Jew or something like that. "

Mr. Herndons comment, “…we are attempting to find out what a man's physiological responses will be in any area where he is attempting to deceive. The content of the actual deception is not particularly important. We want to get a tracing of where he is attempting to deceive.” is, I believe, relevant.

We find that Ruby seems to have attempted to deceive on repeated questions that dealt with his Jewish religion and his attendance at the synagogue. Herndon also needed to explain away the reaction to the question, "Did any foreign influence cause you to shoot Oswald?"

Also from Appendix XVI:

“Reared in the Jewish faith, Jack Ruby was not especially devout. Rabbi Hillel Silverman, whose conservative temple Ruby favored, reported that when Ruby's father died in 1958, Ruby came to services twice daily for the prescribed period of 11 months to recite the traditional memorial prayer. Ruby normally attended services only on the Jewish high truly days and he was quite unfamiliar with the Hebrew language.

Ruby was apparently somewhat sensitive to his identity as a Jew. He forbade his comedians to tell stories directed at Jews or Jewish practices and, on several occasions after 1947, he fought with persons making derogatory remarks about his ethnic origins. The evidence also indicates that he was deeply upset that an advertisement insulting President Kennedy appeared above a Jewish-sounding name.

Did Ruby’s religion play a role in the death of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Jim Root