Bill Grote

Why do you think LBJ was behind the Kennedy assassination? For the life of me I don't understand this thinking. LBJ made his announcement on national television- March 31, 1968 - that he would not "accept" his party's nomination,nor would he "seek" another term as President. So if his motive was to acquire Kennedy's position as President he sure didnt keep it very long. Johnson describes that event that made him President as something that "fell upon me". Some say that his motive in the conspiracy to kill JFK was so he could get into a position to start a war in Vietnam, something JFK refused to do. But if you listen to his conversation with McGeorge Bundy in May 1964 it suggests that LBJ had no interest in expanding the war in Vietnam. In fact his arguments against an expanded war in Asia seems to be the same as his former boss John F. Kennedy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itQdn8Fbs-E&feature=related If you read Donald Gibson's book "The Kennedy Assassination Cover up" you learn that the creation of the Warren Commission was not LBJ's idea, but instead it was created by wealthy members of the eastern establishment. John F. Kennedy's real enemies. Gibson also focuses on the international aspect of the Kennedy murder conspiracy with a focus on certain British interests. Lastly it was Lyndon Johnson who made the ominous and cryptic remark to Walter Cronkite while discussing the JFK assassination "we were running a damn Murder Inc. in the Carribean". Just exactly who and what is this Murder Inc.? Permindex? INTERTEL? I believe LBJ suffered a fatal heart attack right after this interview. The source of power and wealth for the Kennedy political dynasty resides with some of the nastiest British oligarchical families, like the Cecil's. Joe Kennedy was such a rabid anglophile that he married his daughter off to William John Robert Cavendish, Marquess of Hartington. QUOTE: Referring to Kathleen Kennedy's marriage to Lord Harrington. If Lord Hartington succeeds to the title, becomes the 11th Duke of Devon shire, his Duchess will find herself the Mistress of the Royal Robes, first lady In waiting to the Queen. The Queen may well be Princess Elizabeth. Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,850493-2,00.html#ixzz0uziRwnAw It is this kind of power that can successfully assassinate a US President (See Lincoln, Garfield, McKinnley)and cover it up. Terry, here is the reason Lyndon Johnson resigned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gallup_Poll-Approval_Rating-Lyndon_B_Johnson.png #1 His approval rating had dropped under 40%, which for an incumbent politician means you are going down the tube. Johnson's pride could not take it and he would not even have won the Democratic primary against Robert Kennedy, his hated enemy. After Johnson murdered JFK, Johnson had high approval ratings due to the "rally around the leader" effect. After 3 years of the Vietnam War, and inflation kicking up, LBJ's approval rating sunk like a rock in water. #2 Lyndon Johnson wanted to create a Texas Court of Inquiry so he could easily control the cover up. Instead he was forced to create a Warren Commission, which really should be called the Allen Dulles CIA commission because Dulles, McCoy, and Gerald Ford, the FBI's man, really ran and controlled that thing NOT Earl Warren or the others. Lyndon Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover and Allen Dulles of CIA fame were the 3 key players who maniputated the Warren Commission cover up. After that the controlled MSM (no alternative media then) and Operation Mockingbird took over. #3 Excellent point about the Eastern Establishment who hated John Kennedy. Lyndon Johnson was in an ALLIANCE with the CIA Eastern Establishment Republicans like Allen Dulles, Nelson Rockefeller and George Herbert Walker Bush, all of whom despised John Kennedy for many reasons ranging from foreign policy to Kennedy's threat to the oil industry's favored tax status. Remember, those Rockefellers made a LOT of money off oil and they were foreign policy hawks, too, Nelson Rockefeller telling JFK to use tactical nukes in Vietnam (!). Speaking of the hated Eastern Establishment, as well as deep CIA, who do you think Lyndon Johnson wanted to be PRESIDENT after he stepped down? NELSON ROCKEFELLER!!!, the pinnacle player of the Eastern Establishment. After LBJ told the nation he was not running, he had Rocky and his wife to the White House and URGED Rockefeller to run and promised he would never campaign against the Republican. Little known fact: Lyndon Johnson was IN BED with the "Eastern Establishment" and he was a tool of the Rockefellers... and LBJ was especially in bed with CIA Republicans. In my opinion, it is NOT a question of whether the "Eastern Establishment" using Ed Lansdale and Operation 40 assassins killed Kennedy or Lyndon Johnson killed Kennedy. The answer is they were in ALLIANCE and the BOTH murdered John Kennedy (and covered it up together, too.) Rob, LBJ never resigned; he simply announced that he would not run for, nor accept, his party's nomination for the presidency. NIXON is the ONLY president who has ever resigned, to date. On March 31, 1968, the world was not exactly as you have described it. Bobby Kennedy had only announced his presidential campaign 15 days before. It was antiwar candidate Eugene McCarthy, NOT Bobby Kennedy, who was pummelling LBJ's stand-in candidates in the early Democratic primaries. And besides the war in Viet Nam turning badly as a result of North Viet Nam's Tet offensive [we wrote "Viet Nam" as two words back then], just six weeks prior, the USS Pueblo, and American spy vessel, was captured by North Korea. Although Defense Department spokesmen claimed the Pueblo wasn't a spy ship, photos provided by North Korea proved the story was a lie. So on March 31, 1968, American prestige was in tatters. At home, there had been several "long hot summers" of racial unrest/riots from New Jersey to California, all under LBJ's watch. For LBJ to announce his decision to not seek a new term was unexpected, but it was probably inevitable. It wasn't a resignation from office, but a sign of his resignation to the fact that he was powerless to control events domestically OR abroad. I'm old...I was there in '68, and I still have my "Kennedy for President" button with Bobby's picture from that campaign. Bobby Kennedy's nomination was anything but a certainty up to his assassination; but he was closing in on "Clean Gene," and if there had been a battle of multiple ballots to determine the Democratic nomination, Bobby had an outside chance of prevailing. But it was ONLY an outside chance, even after the California primary. Not trying to start anything; just trying to keep this thread factually correct. I'm old too (sob)and was dismayed by the war and was trying hard to avoid the draft at the time. Is it also possible that Johnson was forced out by someone who had the proof of his mis-deeds and decided to expose them if he (Johnson) didn't drop out? This someone would probably have mob ties (Rebozo) and be very trickey, and, of course, not a crook. I mean from reading this book on LBJ, practically anything was possible at the time. Maybe it still works like that (nah).

Hi Mark, I met you in a hamburger stand in La Jolla, CA a few million years ago. You were getting ready to give a talk on Plausable Denial, at a local bookstore. At that time I gave you a newspaper article from the San Diego Union on Chauncy Holt, which had just made the news and encouraged you to see him, since he lived in nearby La Mesa. Just curious if you ever followed up, and what your thoughts on Mr. Holt were. If he and his story were real, or fiction, or maybe a little of both? As a lawyer you can probably see events from a different set of eyes than most of us.

Tosh, Thanks for taking the time to share your unique memories and speculation on an event that happened so long ago. You have a special perspective in having actually been there at the time of the assasination, and have actually participated in a small part of the events. I was only 16 then and in a high school far away. I do find it interesting that our government seeks to offer no help to seek out alternate versions to the "official" story. If fact, quite the opposite, they seem to want to supress any alternate version which makes most of us suspicious of a coverup and relagated to posting our alternate views on sites like this. Sorry, I couldn't find any unique objects in the shadows of the trees that appeared to my eyes to be people. Perhaps someone out there will have better technology and give it a go.

In the square on our right it looks like one man handing another man a rifle. It reminds me of the Man on the Roof photo which I have posted here twice. I am using another's computer so I can't post it again for awhile. I am trying to find where the limo was driven to get to Parkland; so I can see the building where the roof man stood via Google Earth Street View. It's apparently near a "covered" section of the Freeway where the limo was photographed. Jack White said there was a floral business there at that time. I haven't located the section of the Freeway. -- Sorry for the digression. Kathy C Here are the images enlarged and a new one I found above the "Stemmons" sign. Someone has probably already "found" it and posted it before, but anyway, here's what I'm able to pull from this photo. I'm not quite sure that they're people, but the proportions appear to be right. Opps, looks like one of the images didn't upload. This is the image that looks to be a person holding something on the right. Crap, one more try here. Sorry for looking like an idiot.

In the square on our right it looks like one man handing another man a rifle. It reminds me of the Man on the Roof photo which I have posted here twice. I am using another's computer so I can't post it again for awhile. I am trying to find where the limo was driven to get to Parkland; so I can see the building where the roof man stood via Google Earth Street View. It's apparently near a "covered" section of the Freeway where the limo was photographed. Jack White said there was a floral business there at that time. I haven't located the section of the Freeway. -- Sorry for the digression. Kathy C Here are the images enlarged and a new one I found above the "Stemmons" sign. Someone has probably already "found" it and posted it before, but anyway, here's what I'm able to pull from this photo. I'm not quite sure that they're people, but the proportions appear to be right. Opps, looks like one of the images didn't upload. This is the image that looks to be a person holding something on the right.

In the square on our right it looks like one man handing another man a rifle. It reminds me of the Man on the Roof photo which I have posted here twice. I am using another's computer so I can't post it again for awhile. I am trying to find where the limo was driven to get to Parkland; so I can see the building where the roof man stood via Google Earth Street View. It's apparently near a "covered" section of the Freeway where the limo was photographed. Jack White said there was a floral business there at that time. I haven't located the section of the Freeway. -- Sorry for the digression. Kathy C Here are the images enlarged and a new one I found above the "Stemmons" sign. Someone has probably already "found" it and posted it before, but anyway, here's what I'm able to pull from this photo. I'm not quite sure that they're people, but the proportions appear to be right.

Hi Tosh, I'm not much of a Jack White but I've used Photoshop to lighten two squares in this image where there appear to be people. One looks like a man with a hat carrying something towards the front of the lot and the other is towards the back of the lot and to the left. You'll have to zoom in in order to see them. Hopefully you can see them too, or maybe I'm seeing things.

Don, I don’t see any resemblance to Frank Sturgis at all. Sturgis had curly hair; the Mexican Oswald seems to have straight hair with a small bare spot on top of the head. Johansson I'm sorry you're not convinced Wim, Undercover secret agents wear wigs, headpieces or whatever to conceal their identity!!! Try matching the facial features, height, body size and maybe you'll find the real Mexico City Oswald. From Spartacus: "In 1956 Sturgis moved to Cuba. He also spent time in Mexico; Venezuela, Costa Rica; Guatemala, Panama and Honduras. It is believed that during this time Sturgis worked undercover as a secret agent for the Central Intelligence Agency." Oh by the way Wim, you look like Kelso in your Johansson avatar!! Don Don, First of all, I am a real person by the name of Mark Johansson. Wim Dankbaar used my profile when his password was lost and he couldn’t get any help from the moderators. Secondly, the guy photographed by the surveillance cameras in Mexico is not Frank Sturgis. If it is, then there must have been some plastic surgery involved. See for yourself. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/LHO25.htm Who is Kelso by the way? Johansson Hey Johannsen/Wim, Who is Kelso by the way? My point exactly... you do not have a clue about America. If you lived in America you would understand, same goes with your understanding of Frank Sturgis. Don Don, I agree with Johansson. The guy doesn't look at all like Sturgis. I've lived in the US all my life and who the hell is "Kelso"? Maybe I don't watch enough T.V. to know? -- Bill

I've been pushing this possible shooter since 2002, but very few people seem interested in it as a reality. Duncan Hi Duncan, What about the great photo inspector Jack White? He seems to have a good eye for detail. Does he not notice this image? Or is it that we both see something that appears to be a person but in reality is something else? -- Bill

Sorry, I must be retarded today. Can't seem to upload this image. On the left hand side of the fence there appears to be a figure above the three men. The figure has a hat of some kind and some kind of rod in the hand. Or else this is the product of an over-active imagination. I've lightened the area but you have to zoom in to really see it. The "head" size looks proportional to the men -- but I am no expert on this. -- Bill Grote Hi Bill..Is this what you see? Duncan Hi Duncan, Yes, it was the one one the left which I was able to lighten in the square and you were able to bring out much better. The one to the left of the three men. There really seems to be something there in the image. Looks like someone wearing some kind of hat. Thank you for bringing it out. So you must see something there also. Didn't the man in the front of the group of three (the one holding the camera) say that he heard a bullet go by his ear? -- Bill

_________________________ Why? Because of "the-head-is-too-small-perspective wise to-have-been-about-six-feet-off-the-ground" argument? --Thomas _________________________ Why? Easy..2ftx6ft = 12ft where I come from Thomas, it's no great science, honestly. If I had twelve fingers or an abacus i'd show you the calculation in simpler terms. Duncan Could the lighted area in the image attached represent something? -- Bill Grote Here's an arrow to help you find it -- in case it can't be seen. Sorry, I must be retarded today. Can't seem to upload this image. On the left hand side of the fence there appears to be a figure above the three men. The figure has a hat of some kind and some kind of rod in the hand. Or else this is the product of an over-active imagination. I've lightened the area but you have to zoom in to really see it. The "head" size looks proportional to the men -- but I am no expert on this. -- Bill Grote

_________________________ Why? Because of "the-head-is-too-small-perspective wise to-have-been-about-six-feet-off-the-ground" argument? --Thomas _________________________ Why? Easy..2ftx6ft = 12ft where I come from Thomas, it's no great science, honestly. If I had twelve fingers or an abacus i'd show you the calculation in simpler terms. Duncan Could the lighted area in the image attached represent something? -- Bill Grote Here's an arrow to help you find it -- in case it can't be seen.

_________________________ Why? Because of "the-head-is-too-small-perspective wise to-have-been-about-six-feet-off-the-ground" argument? --Thomas _________________________ Why? Easy..2ftx6ft = 12ft where I come from Thomas, it's no great science, honestly. If I had twelve fingers or an abacus i'd show you the calculation in simpler terms. Duncan Could the lighted area in the image attached represent something? -- Bill Grote Here's an arrow to help you find it -- in case it can't be seen.

_________________________ Why? Because of "the-head-is-too-small-perspective wise to-have-been-about-six-feet-off-the-ground" argument? --Thomas _________________________ Why? Easy..2ftx6ft = 12ft where I come from Thomas, it's no great science, honestly. If I had twelve fingers or an abacus i'd show you the calculation in simpler terms. Duncan Could the lighted area in the image attached represent something? -- Bill Grote

Hi Charlie, I agree with you that we DID believe the FBI back then. But the cover up of the JFK assasination changed our view of the FBI -- especially when we found out how they only wanted evidence that coincided with the "official" story. Also when we found that evidence that opposed the "official" story was soon lost or misplaced, never to be seen or heard of again. After that we began to view the FBI with suspicion. This suspicion only increased after their handling of MLK assasination and Bobby Kennedy assasination. If we had exposed the truth of what happened rather than force-feeding a lie to the American public then perhaps the American public would have faith in the leadership, or the judicial system, rather than viewing it as a corrupt system that protects the rich and powerful. Yes, for some of us it would be a tremendous shock, but we wouldn't be living in denial as we are now, suppossedly believing that some poor schmuck who tested negative for nitrates on his cheek fired three times from a rifle with a crooked scope and killed Kennedy with a lucky shot. -- Bill Grote

Hi John, While I would find it hard to ban certain people, it does appear as though personal issues, put-downs and innuendo certainly tend to get in the way of research into the JFK assasination. I'm sorry that it is the Americans that tend to be the most distracting. But then, they did re-elect a great team like Bush and Cheney -- So please don't set the bar too high. I agree that it is really distracting to see really interesting research get misled in a thread by put downs. It also seems that some people tend to re-direct the threads into their own forum expressing their own superiority of thought by ridiculing another idea or theory rather than encouraging independent thought that may not agree with their own. I think a warning system, rather than a banning, would help some individuals realize when they've stepped over the line. In that way the offenders can learn that their behavior is wrong. Then if they continue perhaps a temporary ban. It's really to bad that this has to happen at all. I apologize for my countrypeople, but hopefully we aren't all like that.

We have our hands around yet another twosie: It was veteran FBI agent Sibert (of "orange-sized hole in back center of head" fame) who introduced the idea of a magic dissolving projectile—but in relation to the back wound, not the throat wound (which, by the time Sibert saw the body, had been conveniently hacked out of existence by Malcolm Perry). It was Sibert who purportedly took a little break from the autopsy vigil to go to a phone and call HQ to inquire about a magic disappearing bullet when the back wound was probed and determined to be shallow, with no bullet having at that time been discovered. So here we go: vast clouds of confusion over not one, but two purported magic disappearing projectiles. Let's all go on a snipe hunt, kids: there are at least two for everyone to go on chasing endlessly for the rest of their lives. Two No-See-Ums to chase. It's not just a twosie: it's a No-See-Um twosie. It's a floor wax and a dessert topping. The snipes are waiting. "Run, boy! Run!" [sUNG] "In Camelot..." [/sUNG]. Ashton Chauncy Holt reportedly delivered to Dallas some custom-loaded ammunition. Some of them were short rounds. Could this be so that the MC bullet would have just enough power to enter Kennedy's back and lodge there so that everyone could find it and identify it as the "magic bullet?" -- Just a thought. -- Bill Grote

For what it's worth, I agree. Tosh mentioned a hidey-hole next to the railroad bridge. A slight indentation in the butress where a shooter could easily hide, according to my memory.

Also, didn't Nitrate tests on his right cheek prove that he had no traces of gunpowder and couldn't have possibly fired a rifle? It seems like this test alone would have exonerated him.

This may be a dumb question, but what about Tosh Plumbee's assertion that the North Knoll/Railway Bridge area was where a shot was fired from? Or at least the North Knoll where he said that he smelled gun powder after the shooting. -- Bill Grote

Great interview Terry. Lane has been something of a legend to me: Plausible Denial and Rush to Judgement are two of the better books-esp given how early they were written, he worked with Jim Garrison who was one of the bravest men in American history, Lane was attorney for the only court case that ever found that the CIA murdered President Kennedy. This is the first time I've actually heard him speak. I'm really pleased that he doesn't seem to have lost his edge. He speaks with passion and he's an encyclopedia of JFK info. They have a good summary of the interview at: http://www.blackopradio.com/inc_archives2006.html. This is interesting: ""Detailed discussion of NSAM #273 (the reversal of #263); the draft of #273 had EIGHT copies out on 11/21, the day before the assassination, a stunning behind-the-back reversal of Kennedy's intentions to withdraw "all U.S. personnel" from Vietnam, evidence that people in the loop already knew Kennedy would be killed" Anyone know more about those those drafts? And I love this: "Lane concludes that destruction of US honor througout the world is the biggest problem today; Lane is working on a piece of legislation which would require everyone from the cabinet level up to be taxed 100% on their personal gains from war profiteering" Can't imagine it happening, but wouldn't it change the world dramatically if it did? Suddenly, no more war. Poof. But the price of gas would go up to 8 million dollars a barrel to compensate. I met Mark Lane around 1976 when he was in LaJolla, CA at a book signing and promotional talk for "Plausable Denial." Out of happenstance I arrived early and ate at a local cafe. Mark Lane sat next to me at the burger counter. I recognised heim, stuck up a conversation and handed him a recent newspaper article on Chauncy Holt since Chauncy lived a few miles inland in LaMesa and the article in the San Diego Union was all about Chauncy's ties to the Kennedy assasination. Chauncy claimed to be one one the three tramps who walked with his "toes out" as did the last of the three tramps. I don't know if Mark Lane ever followed up and interviewed Chauncy Holt. I know at the time Chauncy wanted someone to help him write a book. But I do have my autographed copy of "Plausable Denial" with a "Thank your for the Newspaper Article" from Mark Lane. That was my two-minutes of fame. -- Bill Grote

Tosh, Is this you in the image? You might have to save the image on your computer and blow it up slightly. But there appear to be two images. Either that or my imagination is on overtime. -- Bill Grote

Something you might be interested in as a link to Nellie Connally's death. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/augus...6/300806jfk.htmpoison planet I'm sure that for some of you this will just be old news. But it's still interesting, for us who like to keep our minds open. -- Bill Grote

I received several trojans and a few pop up viruses trying to attach to my computer at work while viewing the JFK Debate site. This happened for around 4 days straight at from June 10th on. Luckily, the viruses were repelled or "quarantined" by my virus protection. But I started to wonder why would someone post viruses on the site. I had the same problem and had to re-instal Norton firewall. It tied my computer up almost a day. I think there are nasty people out there who would like nothig better than see this place crash and burn. But John has great protection and we have rather good firewalls as well. Dawn Was it a student, or someone else? Did someone want to discourage us from sharing information on the JFK Assassination? Aww-- that's paranoid thinking. -- Bill Grote If I remember correctly this was an attack from Russia...might be wrong about that...but this place was not the only one hit. I read a news article in the same time frame that a section of a Circuit City forum devoted to home theater got hit with the same attack. It happened do to a hole in the forum software that was exploited, and the CC forum has the same software as this one. So unless home theather is somehow connected to JFK, the only thing I see going on is some bad people wanting to infect as many computers as possibe with adware. So from this information we can deduct that Russians, seeking revenge for Kennedy's assasination, are spreading capitalism in the form of adware viruses. Naaaw! THAT is an enigma wraped within an enigma. Wait a minute! -- Bill