John Dolva

Bill Frist was KKK? Can you document this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for that. a quick search revealed:

this might be true:

"Max Blumenthal, writing in The Nation, plays at the age-old political sport of guilt by association:

Senate majority leader Bill Frist appeared through a telecast as a speaker at "Justice Sunday," at the invitation of the event's main sponsor, Family Research Council president Tony Perkins. "Justice Sunday" was promoted as a rally to portray Democrats as being "against people of faith." Many of the speakers compared the plight of conservative Christians to the civil rights movement. But in sharing the stage with Perkins, who introduced him to the rally, Frist was associating himself with someone who has longstanding ties to racist organizations.

Four years ago, Perkins addressed the Louisiana chapter of the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC), America's premier white supremacist organization, the successor to the White Citizens Councils, which battled integration in the South. In 1996 Perkins paid former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke $82,000 for his mailing list. At the time, Perkins was the campaign manager for a right-wing Republican candidate for the US Senate in Louisiana. The Federal Election Commission fined the campaign Perkins ran $3,000 for attempting to hide the money paid to Duke."

so for now : scratch Frist , or shift him into 'member of the group of possible former members'. I wont edit the list because I dont think its right to correct mistakes in that way. (?) In future summaries if further research shows he should be moved into another grouping then I'll do so and acknowledge the mistake. I probably got his name from a report by someone who took the step of turning guilt by association into guilt.

further interesting info from wikipedia:

"While in medical school, Frist adopted cats from Boston animal shelters, telling shelter staff he intended to keep them as pets. He would then experiment on and kill the animals as part of his medical studies. Later, in his 1989 book "Transplant," he commented: "It was a heinous and dishonest thing to do. I was going a little crazy."

...

As part of Frist's preparations for political office, in December 1993 he ended his membership in Nashville's all-white Belle Meade Country Club, which he had joined in the 1980s following family tradition.

...

The Belle Meade Country club was founded in [[1886]] by James Belle and Harold Meade, both former [[clowns]] with the famed "Shrimp and Harvey Travelling Circus". Belle and Meade amassed their dual fortune during the [[Reconstruction]] era, using many of their old circus connections and tactics as they travelled from town to town selling "[[Patent medicine|health tonics]]" on street corners.

...

As the chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, he helped Republicans win back the Senate in the 2002 midterm elections. His committee collected $66.4 million in soft money for 2001-2002, 50% more than the previous year. Shortly afterwards, Senator Trent Lott made comments at a Strom Thurmond birthday celebration in which said that if Thurmond's segregationist presidential bid of 1948 had succeeded, "we wouldn't have all these problems today". In the aftermath, Lott resigned his position as Senate Majority Leader and Frist was chosen by Senate Republicans as his replacement; the administration of George W. Bush was widely credited with helping him attain the post.

...

After the 2004 elections, Frist played a role in the controversy over Arlen Specter's post-election remarks. Frist demanded a public statement from Specter in which Specter would repudiate his earlier remarks and pledge support for President George W. Bush's judiciary nominees. Frist rejected an early version of the statement as too weak, and gave his approval to the statement which Specter eventually delivered.

...

Frist's family business, Hospital Corporation of America, was the subject of a decade-long Federal investigation into double-bookkeeping and suspected criminal fraud involving the bilking of Medicare, Medicaid, and Tricare (the federal program covering the military and their families). HCA has paid a total of $1.7 billion in fines, the largest fraud settlement in U.S. history. Shortly after Frist assumed his Senate Majority position, a final fine of $631 million was assessed and the ongoing Justice Department investigation into HCA was dropped. "

Berkley Barb

Friday September 10 1965, Berkley California

Reagan Ruckus Explained by Berkleyans

David Lee

'the Ronald Reagan ruckus begun last week in San Francisco, flowed over rapidly into Berkley where some of the key figures do businass.

BARB was confronted with a plethora of statements by some officials of of the Birch Society and others of the California Republican Assembly.

...

( recounted by Stevenson and Lavis)

...

Rousselot had supposedly said the Birch Society would either attack or support Reagan -- whichever would help him the most. Lavis said " the Birch Society is an educational and not a political organisation"

'

educational? political?

Lee not Grant, an indication it's not read? hope not

and John Wilkies Booth's accomplice is largely forgotten 2 names Dean Harold. (What about Jack Ruby ?)

Alan pure speculation on my part : I have no idea of his mental state or can imagine why he would : could it be a clue? film hidden wet baggie in the cistern??? anyway a very informative article, thanks for inviting comment. I wish I understood more about forensics, the bit about the pulsing is interesting, the us military conducted experiments and filmed them in high speed in 1945 study showing just such pulsing (and other aspects of wound ballistics) John

I've started to look through what is 8 boxes of microfilms, each box with about 20 films, of US underground and alternative magazines from many states from 1963 through to early 70's. Today I got through about 1/2 of the first film, there are some (not many) from Dallas. I printed out some reports, such as on the spot interviews with Mark Lane and Bill Turner in the Berkley Barb , nov. 1966. Also a report from Australia in the Barb, again nov. '66 during LBJ's visit headed "could've assassinated LBJ ten times over.' A friend I had who was there went to the demo's wearing a helmet to protect his head and a pole with pigs head skewered on top wearing a police cap, naturally the cops went for him. A report in The Fifth Estate nov. 15 '66 by John Arden " A first Class Texas Job" which to my surprise mirrors closely some of my thought's. I'll endeavour to digitise and post these and others in the future. Theres an intersting one in The Barb from sep 1965 involving some intrigue with Reagan and the JBS, 'Reagan Ruckus explained by Berkleyans' by David Lee. Lots of background stuff to get a feel for the times.: advice for the ladies : "what to wear when you expect to get arrested".

There are maybe a hundred or more different publications, some only one issue, some with longer runs, some interesting copies of CIA disinfo. pamphlets.

Anyway,school holidays are here and my kids are gonna get my full attention for 3 weeks, in the mean time if any one has any requests / suggestions of articles / publications they know of, please note them here and when I get back I'll follow it up. The collection is not indexed so its really a matter of painstakingly going through the lot. I looked through much of it back in the late 70's and only recently remembered it.

addendum this is an interesting site http://www.dealeyplazauk.co.uk/Network%20Anomolies.htm

Jack hmmm that sounds more like a description to me. The camera moves too, the shutter speed is the same in all frames. It wouldnt matter if the blur on the car is from the reflection on the bar or from the antenna in the back. As Lee pointed out the 'spot' on the grass is an area with dimensions, so the dimensions would determine the actual length of the blur. How did Costello calculate * mph, was he just using the accepted speed as the way to state that that is the meaning of the difference between the blurs? I have issues with his points about the z film in general (names swimming in alphabet soup don't impress me much). Anyway, I'm grateful you took the time to do that, Jack. Perhaps as I think about what Costello had to say I'll see something that is hidden from me now. I think it is possible to formulate a general formula to determine the speed at any frame with blurs.

John

The correct name for this topic is Members of the 'former members group'.

KKK

Dean Williams

Arthur Haley

Clayton Spires

Robert Byrd

Johnny Lee Clary

Edgar Ray Killen

Hugo Black

Bobby Frank Cherry

Thomas Blanton, Jr

Don Black

David Duke

Tom Metzger

Harry Truman

Louis Ray Beam Jr

Abdus Salam Sipes

Jimmy Ray Shelton

James K. Warner

Bill Frist

John Burt

honorary member of note Woodrow Wilson

Lyndon LaRouche

I'm slowly piecing together a list...any suggestions?

I'm not an expert but my understanding is that it's harder to track a target that is not only going away from you but also 'up' than for example 'panning'. To compensate for shooting at different elevations + a changing distance takes a bit more skill than target shooting. Its the job of a hunter (or, shock horror, a sniper). To do it with a thing like that MC, hmmm. Does it make sense?

Thank you Tim, I'll review that over time. Looks interesting.

Ron, I don't know who meyer was/is ( just as I don't know who Murphy was/is) the law goes like this

When the same set of facts can be explained equally well by

A massive conspiracy coordinated without a single leak between hundreds or even thousands of people -OR -

Sustained stupidity and/or incompetence

Assume stupidity.

The idea that it might be a deliberate ploy is not a bad one. Some CIA pamphlets masquerading as SDS information are ridculous but I think they are not interested in influencing those who 'know', but to drive a wedge between them and Joe average Citizen, the more rubbish floating around the more dull peoples minds become, the less likely to believe the truth when its in front of them.

Thank you all, Mark, I would like to in time make contact with Don,, I have questions that I feel he can help me with , perhaps he'll feel I can help him too. I like his little thing at the end of his posts : TEAM.

Well, it has been heartening to receive responses. Perth is a real global backwater, the internet has gone a long way towards changing that, only 35 years ago a drive to over east was in part along a rutted dirt track. One goes a bit troppo, bursting with ideas and no-one to talk to about them. OK, I'll settle down and just be here.

I've started to look through what is 8 boxes of microfilms, each box with about 20 films, of US underground and alternative magazines from many states from 1963 through to early 70's. Today I got through about 1/2 of the first film, there are some (not many) from Dallas. I printed out some reports, such as on the spot interviews with Mark Lane and Bill Turner in the Berkley Barb , nov. 1966. Also a report from Australia in the Barb, again nov. '66 during LBJ's visit headed "could've assassinated LBJ ten times over.' A friend I had who was there went to the demo's wearing a helmet to protect his head and a pole with pigs head skewered on top wearing a police cap, naturally the cops went for him. A report in The Fifth Estate nov. 15 '66 by John Arden " A first Class Texas Job" which to my surprise mirrors closely some of my thought's. I'll endeavour to digitise and post these and others in the future. Theres an intersting one in The Barb from sep 1965 involving some intrigue with Reagan and the JBS, 'Reagan Ruckus explained by Berkleyans' by David Lee. Lots of background stuff to get a feel for the times.: advice for the ladies : "what to wear when you expect to get arrested".

There are maybe a hundred or more different publications, some only one issue, some with longer runs, some interesting copies of CIA disinfo. pamphlets.

Anyway,school holidays are here and my kids are gonna get my full attention for 3 weeks, in the mean time if any one has any requests / suggestions of articles / publications they know of, please note them here and when I get back I'll follow it up. The collection is not indexed so its really a matter of painstakingly going through the lot. I looked through much of it back in the late 70's and only recently remembered it.

Roughly , one scenario I'm looking at :

I think Johnson probably was chagrined by being upstaged by the charisma of the Kennedys. I think he probably resented Bobbies contempt for him, and he may have felt that he didn't get due respect from the younger Jack. This may have controlled how he dealt with the aftermath and may have induced a blinkered response, I don't know if I agree with him being 'in the know'. But we'll see. Dallas

was, as far as I understand, still living mentally back in the days of the surrender of Grant*, reconstruction and the knowledge that the last battle was fought and won on Texas soil by the confederacy. In other words, they had never accepted defeat! The irish catholic, papist, niggerloving, soft-on-communism yankee, came to what was to so many 'the HEART', and they let him know what they thought. This set the stage for the people behind the scene, the monied power groups etc to seize control. (I'll try to put together a bit on 'Lumpen' elements being manipulated by more intelligent groupings.) This doesn't have to mean that these groups are involved at all, but maybe within them are likeminded folk who form a clique by themselves. Thats really what I mean when I say I don't think it was the mob, military...etc but there may very well have been mobsters, spooks and others who were mambers of this group of like minded people. The DCC had a philosophy of not discriminating between reps and dems. The other groups as well had what they dont like as the common unifying force. The KKK for example had members who were presidents, industrialists and hooligans. Elements who think and 'lumpen' elements who act.

Bigoted, hateful, damaged goods. I'd accept a plea of insanity.

Hence my curiosity re DCC, CCA, KKK, JBS, membership lists please.

* see next post

I finally managed to get that document. After three tries, two disconnects and one reboot:( my firewall went a bit busy with unsourced port scans, with my resources i could only trace them as originating in north q'land near the NT border, presumably the main p.o.e. in australia, however switching browser and ignoring scans got it done , thank you James, I haven't had a chance to read it yet so I'll take some time to do that now.

presumably this point could be helpful in bolstering Oswalds tarnished credibility.

Another thing I sometimes wonder is to what extent ego and meyers law (it's not a conspiracy, its incompetence) may have contributed to actions people took. What I'm getting at could some of the people, organisations being looked at be innocent of JFK's murder and just guilty of human failings like ego and incompetence. So they became unwilling accomplices to a coverup of a murder which may partly be a cover up of stupidity? any ideas

phew thanks for that Stephen, I did suspect that people would not be able to drop everything to respond to my posts, so I mean it when I say thank you, at least its dialogue. OK scratch theory # 1.

the bellicosity of my post was meant to see if it would elicit a response. Gratefully its been a sane one, thank you again

John

the first image illustrates some of the things a bullet does as it traverses space (exterior ballistics) , things such as yaw , tumble drift etc, the forces at play are many some of them surprising, such a s coreolis, direction of bore twist, speed temperature wind, change of wind, direction of firing, ie up versus down and so on, fascinating reading.

the second is concerned with wound ballistics. self explanatory i think?

the third is still exterior ballistics, its hard to get much phot xray info regarding the interior ballistics, it seems to be mostly theory based on inferences drawn from exterior ballistics

hmm this might deserve a thread of its own, however as my quota of permissible attachment space appears to be used up, i cant change that.

"Good luck with the Masonic inquires.....

Few people are aware that Harry Truman was not only a Mason, but a 33rd, the highest degree in Masonry. Remember Harry's 'Whistle Stop" tour when he gave speeches from the back of a train to the public? When those were done, in dozens of different towns across America, he met secretly with the local Masons. These men had the power to swing many votes in their communities.

My long gone Masonic grandfather once told me that it was the Masons who stopped Dewey and reelected Truman.

Good hunting."

................................................................................

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Thanks for answering, I am not making any 'masonic inquiries'. I'm looking at persons who may or may not have some involvement in the murder of JFK. Some of those enquiries lead me to such sites, I figured that my question about guidance in how credible those sites may be might be answered by some learned scholar. (this q is now posed once more).

while I'm at it: I joined this forum in the hope of having questions answered and hoping to contribute something to others who ask questions. I wonder what it takes to get any kind of response? take on the persona of a spook caricature like Tim? Publish something and get a name? Hang around long enough so people get comfy with having a newcomer around? none of the above? what???

Dont worry, I'm not deluded enough to believe anyone has to answer, I would be pleasantly surprised if some one does. I have attempted to raise a few points that APPEAR to me to be original thoughts, because I have not come across them before, and no matter how insignificant they are, if they clear up some previously un answered point they deserve at least a note so that I and future researchers dont have to waste time looking into such things. one question is 'is OH Lee an alibi?' I believe I've answered that . ' what speed is the car doing in frame x of the zapruder film' I believe I may be on to something that can help answer those questions, I've had little response to help me , I'm not a mathematician, is someone here? If so a response would be most appreciated.

I endeavour to give encouraging input where I feel I may have some info. that can help the person along that thread irrespective of whether I agree with that person or not. Personally I believe that looking for Kennedys killer among cubans of any persuasion or the mob or the communists, jews, the spooks or military establishment is fruitless. I'm applying a bit of broad lateral thinking here. Who's behind that darn dawg that yaps at me anytime I turn in it's direction. I am beginning to see the broad research community, of which people here are presumably some kind of avant guard, as unwitting accomplices. Who is it that has the attention taken off them by having people looking all over the place except at them?

Is some grotesquerie like intellectual property rights hampering people.

Will those who use this forum as a means to gather information, ideas etc for a book article to get money or prestige, please put their hand up?

Will those spook lackeys who are here to disrupt divert and otherwise control the aim, please put their hand up?

Those who are not in those two categories but are just plain cautious out of fear, please don't put your hand up, my blessings are with you.

Will those who would like to see the murderers of John F. Kennedy identified, please continue.

John

to labour the name thingy a bit more...I've just taken time to review a dvd I got the other day of footage from the time with various researchers, fbi agents, police officers, and others, ....ALL of them SAY Santos, but that doesn't mean it's not spelled(spelt?) Santo. Perhaps its a cultural thing, maybe an Italian born speaker could comment?

When visiting st louis a couple of years ago I was surprised to be repeatedly corrected to say st louIS rather than st louie as I'd be inclined to do, while I always spell it st louis

It brings me to another thing I've been wondering : giving ones name as Lee H. Oswald could be thought as ok,,, er Lee : surname, hmmm Oswald must be first name then and H. middle so O.H. Lee....maybe land lady was european? has this point been resolved before? its like saying 5th floor in some countries means 6th in others with ground being 1st etc...capiche???

in other words one of his alledged alibis might never have been one, ever???? he did after all say, i believe, that she didn't understand him.

"My landlady didn't understand my name correctly, so it was her idea to call me O. H. Lee. ."

i suppose if one was inclined to disbelieve him because of such things, it's possible that to some extent people bandying that particular bit of info around would be shown to be a bit incompetent and oswald a bit more credible???

.

It would certainly seem foolhardy to me to plan such a shot, but I know nothing about ballistics and how finely tuned a bad round could be to perform exactly as desired. But this occurred to me, as the back wound has in any case remained a mystery (except of course to lone nutters with their SBT), as has the completely missed shot.

Ron

I have wondered if the backshot could have been a dud.

That it might have been a deliberate one ...hmmm interesting.

INTERIOR BALLISTICS

'Interior ballistics covers the events inside a gun that occur from the time the firing pin strikes the primer until the bullet exits the muzzle. While the internal ballistics of large cartridges such as cannons are reliably predictable from mathematical considerations, interior ballistics for small arms are difficult to predict at least by reasonable calculation procedures. In the past, ballistic data for small arms have been found primarily by velocity and pressure tests or empirical methods rather than by calculation. Many firing tests have been performed by several powder and bullet manufacturers for a large number of bullet/powder combinations, in small arms. Because of these tests, sufficient data has emerged that when coupled with sound ballistic correlations have allowed the calculation of small arm ballistics with reasonable accuracy.'

http://www.loadammo.com/WhatIsBallistics.htm

EXTERIOR and WOUND BALLISTICS

i put these together using various images some created in 3d software. they should be self explanatory.

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