Thomas Graves

Dear Michael, Did Oswald effectively renounce his citizenship, or did he only appear to try to do so, you know, so dad-gum near the embassy's closing time that Saturday AM? -- Tommy

Dear Paul, According to the CIA report regarding the second Mexican interrogation of Duran, she said she didn't know anyone from the Soviet Embassy. -- Tommy

Dear Paul, Didn't Duran tell the HSCA she'd dealt with a guy on 9/27/63 who was short, blue-eyed, and blond-haired? What did she tell the Mexican Police the two times they so brutally interrogated her? Do we know? Thanks, -- Tommy

Dear Paul, Please remind me why Duran and Azcue said (in so many words) that "Third Secretary" KGB officer Nikolai Leonov had impersonated LHO on 9/27/63? Thanks, -- Tommy

Edit: Or was it a simple matter of LHO's being recruited by KGB's Department 13 while he was there, despite "true defector" Noshenko's assuring the CIA a month or two after the assassination that Oswald was "so unstable" (as was later "confirmed" by Nechiporenko and Leonov and, to a lesser extent, by Cuban Consul Azcue), that the KGB didn't go anywhere near Oswald while he was in the U.S.S.R, not even to find out if he knew any military secrets. (LOL) Or maybe even LHO's being replaced in Russia by a Ruskie assassin? Hmmm. -- Tommy

Dear Paul, You seem to be saying that when the Mexican Police were interrogating Duran, the CIA didn't know if (CIA agent?) LHO had actually met, on his own initiative, with Duran and Azcue in the Cuban Consulate on 9/27/63, or if he had been impersonated there. -- Tommy PS No need to give us another two-page "summary" of your "CT" in your greatly-looked-forward-to response, if any.

Dear Paul, In your scenario I guess it's too bad "rogue" David Sanchez Morales (aka "Neck Scratcher") couldn't give the Mexican Police an accurate description of LHO (having monitored / mentored him so closely in New Orleans on 8/09/63) so they (they Mexican Police) could say to Duran and Azcue, "Describe the guy you allegedly dealt with on 9/27/63 like this ...", instead of letting Duran and Azcue describe poor little KGB officer Nikolai Leonov, instead. -- Tommy

Paul, If you read some of the books and articles about their respective "careers" as defectors, you'd realize that Golitsyn helped to uncover many more important Soviet spies than Nosenko ever did, and that the KGB briefly shut down its operations in something like 54 of its stations right after Golitsyn defected due to KGB's leaders realizing he knew so darn much about different KGB operatives and operations, and that he was willing to "spill the beans" to the CIA and FBI. Wikipedia is a good place to start your research on them, IMHO. -- Tommy

Before the above post, Sandy Larsen had written: Paul B., I can understand Phillips and Scott wanting to make a connection between Oswald and Leonov, just like they wanted to make a connection between Oswald and Kostiikov. But why would they want to make it look like Leonov impersonated Oswald? In doing that, a connection isn't made... at least not a clear one. And in fact it makes it look like Oswald didn't even go to MC. If Oswald didn't go to MC, he couldn't have met Kostikov. And the whole thing unravels. So this scenario doesn't look right to me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I chipped in: Sandy, I'm glad you clarified that, and I agree. Maybe now you're starting to see why I don't have a particular "CT" or "take" on the assassination quite yet. It's just too darn complicated and full of apparently contradictory evidence for my limited intelligence to get a "real good grip on," you know, like Jim Di Eugenio and Paul Trejo and your buddy, John Armstrong, apparently have got. Heck, I don't know -- maybe it was just a bunch of regionally mobbed-up Intel Rogues manipulating their respective countries' intelligence agencies, which in turn were manipulating each other's intelligence agencies, which were ... Or hey! Maybe it was that evil, evil, evil James Jesus Angleton, and and and ... Allen Dulles, and .... You know, ... everybody but the Russians. 5/09/18 EDIT ALERT: Or .... Hmmm .... Fidel Castro? -- Tommy

Bumped

Bumped

Fwiw, I for one will probably forever wonder if the photos of "a certain person known to you" weren't of KGB officer Nikolai Leonov instead of the traditional, husky, "Mexico City Mystery Man". -- Tommy

Paul, I'm trying to figure out if Trejo believes Duran and Azcue were told what to say, or if they collaborated with each other in deciding what to say (when they collectively described Oswald as looking like somebody who strongly resembled their "diplomatic associate," Leonov). -- Tommy

You're right, of course, Jim. There were lots of 5' 6", blond-haired, blue-eyed, thin-bodied, very thin-faced, 35-year-old guys walking around Mexico City that September. They were enticed to go there, of course, by stories they'd heard about the cerveza and the enchiladas, believing that if they drank and ate enough of them that not only would their face fill out, but that they would gain 3.5 inches in height and then REALLY appeal to that saucy little Sylvia Duran. -- Tommy

Dear John, At least now you know how it feels. But then again I would say that, wouldn't I? (lol) -- Tommy

You're unbelievable, Trejo. Let me parse my words a little more precisely for you so that you might get a tiny little glimmering glimpse of what I'm trying to say: According to Paul Trejo: "After being tortured, Duran was temporarily willing to say whatever the Mexican Police had told her to say as regards the physical description of the man she (and Azcue) had dealt with on 9/27/63 . But she really, really, really didn't want to do it. Or something like that." -- Tommy

Well, obviously, one (or both of them) was lying, but why would a "retired" Lt. General of the KGB (Leonov) prevaricate like that? For the money? Really? You do realize, don't you, that he's written a book (in Russian language) in which he recounts the same story? What would his buddy, former KGB officer and head of the FSB, Vladimir Putin, think about Leonov's contradicting the official Nechiporinko - Kostikov - Yasov "line" like that? -- Tommy

Don't get all paranoid on me, Trejo. I'm using a library's Wi-Fi, and the way they have it set up, if you forget to refresh your laptop's connection to said Wi-Fi every 90 minutes or so, you lose everything, and gotta start all over again. Capiche? -- Tommy

Would you say this is a fair rendition of what you believe to be the case as regards Duran's and Azcue's "later description" of the man they'd dealt on 9/27/63?: "After she was tortured by the Mexican Police, not only was Duran compliant with whatever said police wanted her to say, but her boss Azcue was as well (through a process of I-don't-want-to-be-tortured-too "osmosis", if you will), and so both of them, following the instructions of the Mexican Police, described their associate, the 5' 6", blond-haired, very thin-faced Soviet "Third Secretary," Nikolai Leonov, as the "Oswald" they had dealt with on Friday, September 27." -- Tommy

Thanks for posting this, Douglas. btw: USA TODAY is a "Least Biased" news source with "High" factual reporting according to https://mediabiasfactcheck.com -- Tommy

Okay, forget the CIA in this instance. The question remains: Do you have any idea as to why Duran and Azcue collectively described the Oswald they'd dealt with in a way that so closely resembled 5'6", thin-bodied, blond-haired, blue-eyed, very thin-faced, 35-year-old Nikolai Leonov? -- Tommy

Nice non-answer! -- Tommy

"Not even close," eh? Care to elaborate (sans the usual two-page "synopsis" of your 'CT') as to how Duran and Azcue ended up collectively describing Oswald as somebody so closely matching Leonov's distinctive physical description? Was it a Jungian moment of Synchronicity and The Collective (pardon the pun, Komarad) Unconscious in-action? -- Tommy

So, the CIA (through the Mexican Police) forced Sylvia and Eusebio to describe the Oswald they'd dealt with on 9/27 as though he had been KGB officer Nikolai Leonov? -- Tommy

"So," ..... Who impersonated Leonov on 9/27/63, then? -- Tommy