James DiEugenio

This thread is not about any wild  Ira Stoll neocon interpretation of the Overton Window.

Its not about  the rather bizarre conclusion of Moynihan as Deep Throat either.

Its about the guts and honesty of Jeff Sachs on the Kennedy case.  A man who gets some visibility, and is on our side.

I do not appreciate the attempts by K and C to hijack the thread.

I decided to do a substack piece on Jeff Sachs.

Man this guy has guts.  He has sacrificed a lot to be so outspoken.

https://jamesanthonydieugenio.substack.com/publish/post/145599361

3 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Ben- that's no different than saying MLK was murdered by the same people.

It's entirely speculative, bog-standard, conspiracy talk.

There's no evidence. Not even a speck.

I disagree.

Its not like saying King was killed by the same people.

If one reads Brothers that is I think the major point of the book.  That Bobby Kennedy was the first person who suspected a conspiracy in his brother's death. And it closes with this concept with Frank Mankiewicz and Morales. How on earth could Bobby suspect King was killed by a conspiracy while he was on the campaign trail, when it just happened and the main suspect was still on the lam?  

This is an important point, and it should not be obfuscated.

Hopefully we can get this up to a hundred grand.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-david-talbot-after-a-massive-stroke?lang=en_US&utm_campaign=fp_sharesheet&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link

To my knowledge I think its Becket and Larsen?

I don't know who the third one is, or if there is a third one.

The connection to the JFK case in the RFK case is proven by Talbot in Brothers, namely that RFK was going to reopen the JFK case.

BTW, the Ford quote is backed up by John Sherman Cooper in the book by his assistant Morris Wolff Lucky Conversations.  Len had him on BOR.

Like John Connally, Ford made a choice to sell out his morals for what he thought was the good of the country.

In reality, the Warren Commission was a minority report.

He has almost achieved his goal..Thanks.

Does anyone know when the Celebration of Life for Cyril will be and where?

Nice one Tom, and you left him incoherent.

Tom, unlike you and those two, I have attended almost every major conference since 1991.

No one has ever voiced any such opinion, namely that the Mossad killed Kennedy. The Final Judgement by Collins Piper  had no impact on the critical community, for reasons stated above.

Therefore, I  stand by what I said, what Koch is doing is a provocation, about the same street theater level as Griffith.  

I think part of it is to detract from what the IDF is doing in Gaza right now. William was quite right to post Bernie Sanders' eloquent reply to that brutality and its bizarre anti -semitic accusation.

But that does not alter the calculus of Dallas on November 22, 1963. End of story.

The other thing about the panel was the "lean forward" theorem.

To make the phony trajectory work, they said that while behind the Stemmons Freeway sign, JFK was leaning forward, and then reverted back.  Wecht said you mean he was bent over to tie his shoe or scratched his groin at exactly that second and then reverted back upwards? He further adds, that they all knew it was hokum, but they were determined to go with the magic bullet. 

How bad was this panel? During the so called London mock trial with Bugliosi and Spence, Dr. Petty from the HSCA said on the stand that "it would have been nice to have the brain".

LOL. ROTF.  Can you imagine saying something like that?  Just that alone turned the whole proceeding into  a joke.

It recalls  one of my favorite lines from any book on the case, the ending of Rush to Judgment.  "As long as we rely for information upon men blinded by the fear of what they might see, the precedent of the Warren Commission Report will continue to imperil the life of the law and dishonor those who wrote it little more than those who praise it."

That really is kind of odd is it not?

Blakey had never met Wecht, but Cyril could tell he did not like him off the bat. Which is the opposite reaction most people had with him.

But Cyril was really surprised when he learned afterwards that the HSCA pathology panel had interviewed Boswell and Humes in his absence.

He learned of it afterwards. 

Another point: Wecht wanted to do a live single bullet theory experiment. Blakey said it was too expensive. 

Wecht offered to pay for it himself; Blakey still declined.

David Mantik adds to our memorial to Cyril Wecht through his personal memories of a fine individual.

Some nice pictures included.

At the end are links to my two part substack tribute.

He will be missed.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/a-tribute-to-cyril-wecht-md-jd

William,

No serious researcher that I have ever met took the Collins Piper book seriously.  That is just pure hogwash.

At best, it was so strained it was kind of a joke.  At worst it was pernicious.  Someone once told me that he overheard the late author say, "If I could just have 20 minutes with Jim DiEugenio!" Nope.  If I spent like seven hours reading your book and found it completely unconvincing, how is 20 minutes going to change that?

When I say that book was pernicious, I mean it in two ways.  First, because it is so weak, it makes JFK critics look really silly and marginal. Secondly, because of that, it makes us targets.  When Collins Piper was speaking out here in the LA area before he passed on, the LA Times used that to do a front page story ridiculing him and JFK researchers at the same time. Even my graduate studies professor mentioned it to me.

Go all the way back to the beginning with say Meagher and Garrison, all the way down to this day, with all the people we featured in JFK Revisited. Show me one prominent, respected writer/researcher who ever advocated that the Mossad killed Kennedy.

(Sound of crickets in the night.)

Because there is none, Koch has to desperately grab at Jeff Morley's description of Angleton's governance of the Israel account.  I know Morley and have read almost all of his stuff.  He has never said the Mossad killed JFK. We interviewed him for Stone's film for an hour.  I have talked to him over the phone, via email, and have read all of his Kennedy books.  He has never even hinted at that.  If I describe Kennedy's Middle East policy and how it changed from Dulles and after with LBJ, that does not mean I think the Mossad killed JFK. I have never said that because I have never been able to find any evidence for it. I mean after 30 years I think I would have found something if it was there. Don't you? 

So what Koch is selling here is pure moonshine. Hopefully, you and me and Ron will be able to neutralize the guy.

And BTW, how are Talbot, Morley and me part of the radical left?  I have always considered myself a Kennedy Democrat. You know, like maybe Howard Dean?

I also put this up at K and K.

If you cannot contribute then post it around wherever you can like Instagram.

I have to say, when we were shooting JFK Revisited,  I did the interview with Talbot.

When it was done, the crew said, "Jim, is the next guy as good as he was?"  These were camera people and sound recording people.

The proper title for Bergman, is Rise and Kill First.

1 hour ago, John Cotter said:

There seems to be an element of mobbing raising its ugly head again, a coordinated array of disparate negative comments about one individual. It's unseemly and unethical. Please deal with the substantive issues and desist from personal attacks.

I hope you are not talking about me John.

I mean it was Mr K who was using profanity with Ron.

And for Mr. K to somehow imply that Jeff Morley says that the Mossad was behind the JFK murder, that is well, what can I say? 🤐

See, when you write something that is purposefully deceptive, that is against the rules and below the level of this forum.

Its something that belongs on Duncan McRae's dumpster fire site, not here.

This is why I have this guy on ignore. But I thought he was going to reply intelligently to my post.  What a mistake.

Only a completely biased monomaniac could possible say that Morley thinks the Mossad killed JFK. 😘

That is worth a suspension.

Thanks Andrew.

Here is the Go Fund Me page to help a really good guy.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-david-talbot-after-a-massive-stroke?lang=en_US&utm_campaign=fp_sharesheet&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link

Griffith is up to his old tricks.

Can anyone here find one person in the critical community who postulates that the Mossad killed Kennedy, or say Israel was behind it?

No.  Because there is no one who does so.

If anyone should know about that it would be me.  Because I am in the middle of it all.

People like the late Mr. Piper, and the current Mr. Guyenot are not part of the critical community and Mike knows that.

I have attended nearly every major conference from back in 1991 until the last Duquesne conference last year. I have never seen any such presentation.

So this is just BS. Its one reason I have Griffith  (and whatever his name is, Koch or Cucino or whatever) on ignore, but when people quote him I have to read this rubbish. It surprises me that Ben actually falls in line with this junk.

Kennedy's policies in the Middle East were a stark revision of Foster Dulles, plain and simple. And to not face up to that is simply a matter of ignorance or bias.  His design of reaching out to Nasser--by far the most influential and charismatic of all Arab leaders--and seeking the Joseph Johnson Plan for Palestinian repatriation, these were original executive decisions.  And he vigorously pursued them both. These were both dropped by Johnson. And it was LBJ who began the big military programs to Israel which Nasser protested and eventually caused the Egyptian president to break relations with the USA.

Quoting Monica Wiesak: "Lyndon Johnson would cut the economic aid to Egypt and boost the aid to Israel.  He lifted the embargo on offensive military equipment and sent US made tanks and aircraft to Israel.  JFK had sold only defensive weapons, not offensive weapons, and only did so when refugee negotiations appeared to be progressing, in hopes of finalizing those negotiations.....The 92 million in military assistance provided in fiscal year 1966 was greater than the total of all official military  aid provided to Israel cumulatively in all the years going back to the foundation of that nation in 1948." (America's Last President, pp. 203-04) 

Johnson's administration did not just break with Kennedy on these issues, including also Dimona, but LBJ approved the sneak attack on Egypt which started the 1967 war. I can safely say that none of this would have occurred under Kennedy. But this tilting toward Israel continued under almost all future administrations. Which culminated in the absolute mess we have there now.  And the Neocons, going all the way back to Henry Jackson and the rightwing nuts on his staff--Perle, Abrams, Wolfowitz, Gaffney and Kirkpatrick--were a part of this.  The very idea that Kennedy would have been in league with  this kind of neocon nuttiness is both a bit mad and ludicrous.

As I said, Kennedy was the last president who was trying to talk and negotiate with the last great Arab leader, and who was really trying to find a solution to the refugees of the Nakba.  Which is saying something considering what is going on there now: the destruction of Gaza and 34,000 dead civilians. This is why the right has to smear his legacy and disfigure who he was.

Rabin was the last great hope for Israel.  And John F. Kennedy Jr knew it.  See his article on the Rabin murder which he wrote himself in George.

That article is based on his published works.

Arlene's article was based upon the lawsuits filed against him and the hospital.

Thanks for that Ron, "white knight piece of Texas trash?" 😀

Boy is that rich.  Ron comes off like a southern gentleman, Leslie Howard out of GWTW.

How about Canada?

Ever heard of Dr Ewen Cameron?

In January of 1998 there was an acclaimed docudrama broadcast on the CBC, a four hour miniseries. It was entitled The Sleep Room.

The paper zine I used to edit Probe, did a two part article based on this by Arlene Tyner. Between this and other research she did she wrote, "Unlucky enough to be delivered into CIA/Military custody by abrasive or uncaring parents, children as young as 8 years old were subjected to trauma based mind control programming to mold them into Manchurian Candidate spies, assassins and sexual black mailers."

Here is a preview

From Martin Cannon's The Controllers, based in part on the Marks files:

According to declassified documents in the Marks files, a major difficulty faced by the MKULTRA researchers concerned the "disposal problem." What to do with the victims of CIA-sponsored electroshock, hypnosis, and drug experimentation? The Company resorted to distressing, but characteristic, tactics: They disposed of their human guinea pigs by incarcerating them in insane asylums, by performing icepick lobotomies, and by ordering "executive actions."103 A more sophisticated solution had to be found. One of the goals of the CIA's mind control efforts was the erasure of memory via hypnosis (and drugs, electronics, lobotomies, etc.); not only would this hide what occurred during the experimental indoctrination/programming sessions, it would prove useful in the field. "Amnesia was a big goal," confirms Victor Marchetti, who points out its usefulness in dealing with contract agents: "After you've done it, the agent doesn't even know what he's done... you send him in, he does the job. When he comes out, you clean his head out."104 The big problem: Despite hypnotically-induced amnesia, there would be memory leaks – snippets of the repressed material would arise spontaneously, in dreams, as flashbacks, etc. A proposed solution: Give the subject a "screen memory," a false story; thus, even if he starts to recall the material, he will recall it incorrectly