Gene Kelly
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Gerry
Allegedly, he actually met with him on September 28th. A document (see link below) was released in 2014: "DCI John McCone and the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy by David Robarge from Studies in intelligence Vol. 57, No. 3 (September 2013) authored by David Robarge:
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu//NSAEBB/NSAEBB493/docs/intell_ebb_026.PDF
It's referenced in an October 2017 article by Carl Schreck entitled: "Did Oswald Really Meet KGB 'Assassinations' Officer Before Killing Kennedy?" Excerpts from this article refer to a declassified document dated November 23, 1963, which states that - according to an intercepted phone call in Mexico City - Oswald was at the Soviet Embassy on September 28, 1963, ostensibly seeking a Soviet visa to return. The CIA document states that Oswald called the Soviet Embassy on October 1, 1963, "identifying himself by name and speaking broken Russian, stating" that he'd spoken to Kostikov "and asking the guard who answered the phone whether there was 'anything new concerning the telegram to Washington.'" Kostikov himself was quoted in a book by a fellow KGB officer, Oleg Nechiporenko (which John Newman believes to be not credible). Nechiporenko quoted Kostikov as saying that he and his colleagues were preparing for a volleyball game when Oswald showed up at the embassy ... he found Oswald sitting there with a colleague to whom Kostikov explained that the American had been there the previous day. Kostikov said Oswald "was very riled up and broke into hysterics at the mention of the FBI, crying and saying as he wept: ‘I'm afraid they'll kill me. Let me in.'" He said Oswald pulled out a handgun, saying that he carried it for protection, and put it on the table in front of them, Nechiporenko quoted Kostikov as saying.
The released document has a footnote that states the following:
CIA did not establish that the Soviet with whom Oswald met, Valery Kostikov, was from the KGB's "wet affairs" department According to transcripts or their telephone conversations [redacted] they only discussed Oswald's request for a visa. By early 1964, the Agency had concluded that Oswald's contact with the KGB In Mexico City "was nothing more than a grim coincidence.... " Oles Nechiporenko, one of the KGB officers in Mexico City during Oswald's trip there, has recounted the Soviets' dealing with him In Passport to Assassination.
Gene
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Greg
I'm not sure that I would trust much of what the papers of Willem Oltmans reveal ... he seems like a shady character (at best).
And the testimony of the Dallas/Ft. Worth White Russian milieu (Raigorodsky, Natalie and Thomas Ray, Ballen, Lydia Dymitruk Gary Taylor, Ilya Mamantov, Dorothy Gravitis, Paul Roderick Gregory, Helen Leslie) painted a rather negative picture of Oswald for the WC
Gene
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Ron
I don't think Allen Dulles was present. George S. De Mohrenschildt's testimony was taken on April 22, 1964, in Washington, D.C., by Albert Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel with Dr. Alfred Goldberg, historian, present. Several of the other White Russians (Paul M. Raigorodsky, Natalie and Thomas Ray Samuel B. Ballen, Lydia Dymitruk Gary E. Taylor, Ilya A. Mamantov, Dorothy Gravitis, Paul Roderick Gregory, Helen Leslie, and George and Jeanne) are found in Volume IX testimony, but Jenner did the interviews.
In March 1979, the HSCA issued a special staff report in Volume XI on George and Jeanne:
The Warren Commission concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, that he was not tied to any intelligence agency, and that none of his associates were tied to the assassination. Nevertheless, speculation continued to center about one of Oswald's associations: George de Mohrenschildt and de Mohrenschildt's background. The Warren Commission developed no signs of subversive or disloyal conduct on the part of either of the de Mohrenschildt's. Neither the FBI, CIA, nor any other witness contacted by the Commission has provided any information linking the, de Mohrenschildt's to subversive or extremist organizations. Nor has there been any evidence linking them in any way with the assassination of President Kennedy. Despite this disclaimer of any subversive or disloyal activity on the part of de Mohrenschildt by the Warren Commission, de Dfohrenschildt was rumored to have had ties with the intelligence communities of several countries.
It appears that Dulles stayed clear of any direct contact with or observation of George D. But reading some of the testimony of these individuals, it does seem that George is being hung out to dry.
Gene
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This thread made me revisit the WC testimony of that entire White Russian group ... reading it (in retrospect) always adds new insight and creates more suspicion. It is almost as if the WC was investigating George D. (not Oswald) and painting him with suspicion.
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The Oswalds move to Fort Worth in June 1962. Lee got a job at the local Leslie Welding Company but quit that job (without explanation) on October 8th. On the following day, Lee began renting a post-office box under two names … Lee Harvey Oswald and A. J. Hidell. Three days later, on October 12, 1962, Oswald was hired by a local company called Jaggars-Chiles-Stoval in Dallas. At the same time, the Oswalds weretaken under the wing of George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt, whose recollection (in WC testimony) is vague regarding how/when he first heard of or met the couple:
Mr. De Mohrenschildt. My best recollection—I even cannot recall who gave me their address in Fort Worth. I don't recall that. Either George Bouhe or the Clarks, because the Clarks knew them already, Max and Gail Clark, because they were from Fort Worth, you see. And I think a few days later somebody told me that they live in dire poverty. Somewhere in the slums of Fort Worth. I had to go on business to Fort Worth with my very close friend, Colonel Orlov.
Meanwhile, George's daughter and son-in-law (the Taylors) helped move the Oswalds to Dallas about two weeks after George claimed he first met them (sometime in September). George puts a lot of this on the shoulders of George Bouhe and is also vague about how this all played out during his WC testimony, and defers to his wife:
I think in the meantime Lee found a job at Jaggars, and was looking for a place to live, and found a place to live himself in Oak Cliff, this address which I don't remember now—the first address in Oak Cliff. He had two addresses. I forget the exact address. My wife will remember that.
A lot is going on in October 1962. Jim D. has previously pointed out the parallel between what the Baron is doing and what Ruth Paine will later do...
Gene
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Sorry Steve ... I was confusing 1962 and 1963.
In Tipping Point, Larry writes that - during the period of October 1962 up to March 1963 - Oswald and his wife Marina had been covertly checked out by the CIA's Domestic Contacts section, via a contact by Dallas CIA officer J. Walton Moore with George de Mohrenschildt. Purportedly, the job at Jaggers was arranged by someone within the White Russian group in Dallas. Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall (JCS) was a graphic arts company that did newspaper advertising layouts and catalogues. But they also performed more sophisticated photographic work (i.e., processed and analyzed U-2 photos). Oswald held that job for a relatively long time (6 months) as far as his employment record is concerned. In a 2007 EF thread, Bill Kelly wrote:
JCS did map work for the Army Security Agency, placing captions, arrows and notations on U2 photos - including October 1962, when U2 photos positively demonstrated the presence of USSR nuke missiles in Cuba. It was while working at JCS when Oswald wrote the word "Microdot" in his notebook, and JCS had technical facilities, which Oswald is said to have used to manufacture various identifications and documents. Oswald ... discussed what he learned of Soviet military deployments while living in USSR, and another JCS employee, John Caesar Grassi (aka Jack Leslie Bowen), who is listed as a reference on Oswald's New Orleans library card. Grassi/Bowen is one of the most interesting and least investigated characters in the whole JFK assassination drama.
Further, Harold Weisberg wrote the following:
As we would wearily expect, Oswald's Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall tenure is an enigma. Sometimes he would literally disappear at the end of each workday until he showed up at work the next morning. No official investigation has discovered what he was up to, or even where he was living, for most of the period between October 8 and November 3.' While at Jaggars he became acquainted with sophisticated camera techniques and equipment.'" He asked the firm if he could use their facilities to do his own photo developing." Oswald probably used Jaggar's equipment to forge the "Hider draft card found in his wallet when he was arrested on the afternoon of the assassination.
Gene
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1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:
Gene,
I wonder if it had anything to do with the missing two weeks from October 19 - November 3, 1962 when nobody knew where Oswald was living.
Not his friends, not his co-workers, not his bosses, not his wife.
Those two weeks were also when he was working at Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall.
Steve Thomas
Steve
It was on April 6th, that Oswald is dropped by Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall because, in his supervisor's opinion, he allegedly did not get along with his fellow employees. On April 6th, Oswald is dropped by Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall because, in his supervisor's opinion, he allegedly did not get along with his fellow employees. Ruth Paine then invites the Oswald’s to dinner and took them on a picnic on April 20th. When Lee was not present, the two women discuss their respective marital problems, and Marina discloses to Ruth that she is pregnant. Oswald decides to move to New Orleans and on April 24, Ruth drives him to the bus station; he arrives and moves in with his aunt Lillian Murret.
It wasn't until October that Oswald returned to Dallas. On October 4th (after an alleged failed attempt to go to Cuba), he has no job, no money and Marina is eight months pregnant living in suburban Irving at the home of Ruth Paine, who only allows Lee to visit them with her and Marina’s approval. On the morning of October 14th, Ruth and Marina were allegedly having coffee at a neighbor’s house, which leads to Lee's finding work at the Book Depository (incredibly). Just a week before, Oswald almost got a job as a typesetter trainee at a printing company ... far from what would be the motorcade route. On October 15th, Oswald takes a job at the Texas School Book Depository as a clerk.
I agree that where he was living then is a mystery. At least that's the timeline as I understand it.
Gene
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Paul
Great post ... who/what Oswald was is the toughest question of them all. What sticks out to me is that he was just a young man (barely 24 years old) and was obviously being used/manipulated. He had a Cuban escort or "shepherd" that last summer of his life. Some of the most telling anecdotes include:
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Oswald starts a Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in New Orleans (of which he is the only member) - a group infested with informants and linked to David Phillips, James McCord and William Harvey. Oswald frequents 544 Camp Street, an address on his FPCC literature, and a hub for right-wing, anti-Castro activities centered around the office of Guy Banister, as well as Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, Sergio Smith and intelligence-backed Cuban exiles. He doesn't appear to behave as a leftist.
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Also in the summer of 1963, Kerry Thornley steps into the picture in New Orleans where witnesses saw him with Oswald either in public or at Oswald’s apartment (plus Thornley picked up Fair Play for Cuba flyers for Oswald). On June 16th, he distributes FPCC literature at the Dumaine Street wharf.
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On August 9th, Carlos Bringuier confronts LHO when he sees him distributing FPCC literature on Canal Street. On August 21st, he debates Bringuier and Ed Butler, right-wing extremists, on a television program. Participating in the leaflet incidents and appearing on television was obvious sheep-dipping, which Oswald had to have understood (though its purpose may have been concealed from him).
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In early September, Clay Shaw, David Ferrie and Oswald visit the villages of Jackson and Clinton to the north of New Orleans, after the anti-FPCC campaign in New Orleans. Oswald is likely unaware that he is being set up as one of the patsies.
- On a Saturday morning in late September, two men arrived at Robert McKeown's house. One man introduced himself as Lee Oswald (his friend was called Hernandez). Oswald said he was willing to pay $10,000 for four rifles, 300 Savage automatics and a telescopic sight. McKeown refused as he thought he was being set-up.
I don't think that George DeMohrenschildt was his "friend", nor was his wife (a KGB "swallow") to be trusted. All of this brings to mind the "useful idiot" characterization by CIA's William Kent. It appears that DRE and CIA utilized young Oswald in a Castro revenge plot. I recall a comment by one of his daughters who said, "he was a young guy who got in over his head". Larry Hancock's "Tipping Point (Part 2: Enter Lee Oswald)" outlines Oswald's last year very well:
Oswald's personal feelings of 1962 are in dramatic contrast to his actions and written communications of the following year. They are totally opposite from the language and attitudes found in Oswald's letters to CPUSA in late September and early October, 1963 . Something seminal occurred with regard to Lee Oswald early in 1963; it would lead to a far different image for Oswald than we find in his memoire, prepared only months earlier.
Gene
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Quite a new set of facts to digest. No wonder that CIA has obfuscated and withheld information all these years ... if Solie was the mole, and Nosenko was a false/dangle, then CIA was severely penetrated and compromised (and for many years after the assassination). That fact alone reflects poorly on the Agency. And perhaps Solie was not the only mole within the CIA.
This also begs the eternal question of what Oswald's role really was ... and why did "they" still select him as a patsy?
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18 hours ago, Matt Allison said:
HI Gene- I'm curious about your source on this, as there is still a Homer Echevarria that is the exact same age currently living in Sarasota FL.
Matt
I am having trouble finding my original source for his death ... I extracted it from somewhere but cannot locate it. Perhaps David Boylan or Larry Hancock can weigh-in here and help. There is an INS file for Homero Samuel Valdivia Echevarria. Cuban; born at Jatibonico, Camaguay, Cuba; 5-9 160; black hair; mustache; olive complexion. I did find an obituary for a Homer Samuel Echevarria - born September 1931 and passed away September 2018 in Sarasota Florida (but not sure this is the same individual). Here is how Echevarria is typically described in declassified records:
White, male Cuban. 32, 3' 9", 160 lbs., black hair, mustache, olive complexion. In Chicago, he maintained steady employment as Chicago transit authority bus driver. Son of Ebelia Echevarria, a "source" for the Chicago office of the FBI. Born at Jatibonico, Camaguay, Cuba. Employed by C. J. Simpson Drilling Co., resided briefly in Dallas at 10353 Denton Drive. Fled Castro's Cuba. Resided in Anniston, Ala 6 months. Had entered United States on July 6, 1960, at Miami, FL, via Cuvano Airlines flight No. 808. I&NS Alien Number is A-12 236 480 (201-767409)
The HSCA later learned that Echevarria "might have been a member of the 30th of November anti-Castro organization, that he was associated with Juan Francisco Blanco-Fernandez, military director of the DRE, and that the arms deal was being financed through one Paulino Sierra Martinez by hoodlum elements in Chicago and elsewhere". Unfortunately, the FBI directed the Secret Service to terminate its investigation and turn over its files to the FBI ... but FBI did not subsequently pursue the case. Photos of Echevarria apparently don't exist (or are rare). In an April 1978 HSCA interview of Chicago SS agent Joseph Noonan, Jr., regarding an informant named Mosely and Echevaria, the agent stated:
“He participated directly in surveillance involving Tom Mosely and Homer Echevarria … he and other agents were uneasy that the Cubans might have some ties to the CIA, and they called Assistant Chief Paul Paterni in Washington and asked him to check on this possibility. Paterni assured them shortly thereafter that it was all right to proceed with their investigation. A little later they received a call from Headquarters to drop everything on Mosely and Echevarria and send all memos, files, and their notebooks to Washington and not to discuss the case with anyone.”
Gene
PS. A good source for reference documents is Joe Backes, "ARRB Summaries: The Tenth Batch (Part Two)" in Assassination Archives
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1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:
Well, an interesting article.
But when it boils down, we get:
1. The FBI was told by an informant named Lee that were four serious dudes after JFK in Chicago, 11/2. They tell the Secret Service.
2. A Chicago landlady see four guys with four rifles in her complex, tells police.
3. The SS arrests (sort of) two of the guys, detains them, but gets nothing out of them. It is fishy we don't even know their names or ethnicity. No photos taken, etc. Fingerprints? Either the SS is covering up big-time, or these were just two lunks who got arrested...and the SS figured that out.
4. Vallee actually seems out of left field, although his service at a U2 base is interesting. Vallee denies any intention to shoot JFK, there is no indication he is an asset, like, say LHO. Vallee appears to be a true drifter type, troubled.
Vallee strikes me as a true loner, unlike LHO who had family, friends, was well-regarded by his supervisor at TSBD, and was well-read (we know that from LHO's library check-outs in N.O.).
Upshot: High suggestive. Four Cuban exiles/mercs may have made their way to Chicago. Or maybe two.
The same two guys who traveled to Dallas?
Ben
There has since been more work done by various authors on the suspect individuals. The names that are put forward include Homer Echevarria, Paulino Martinez Sierra, William Browder, William Trull. David Boylan has pointed towards the JURE group, and Victor Espinosa Hernandez. Echeverria was later pushed out of a plane over the Caribbean. The identities of the Cuban's who were at Willow Run Airport in Michigan (a former World War II bomber plant near Ypsilanti, Michigan) is a topic of interest. The files of the Bureau of Customs show that in October 1963 three individuals, all allegedly Cubans, who were identified as Jose Cardoso, Sierra, and Hernandez, had come to the Willow Run airport to purchase automatic weapons, explosives, rifles, and ammunition. Larry Hancock explores the Willow Run incident in his latest book "Tipping Point".
Thomas Vallee had enlisted in the Marines when he was just 16 and served three years. He had been stationed at a U-2 base, Camp Otsu in Japan, and was honorably discharged from the Marines in 1956 after being diagnosed by military doctors as schizophrenic and paranoid. Vallee had been wounded in the Korean war, had a metal plate in his head, and received a disability because of it. He was also a John Birch Society member who claimed to be an expert marksman and was “outspokenly opposed to President Kennedy’s foreign policy,” according to the HSCA. Vallee also trained anti-Castro Cubans on Long Island. He was never called before any investigating committees and died in 1988 at age 54 in Chicago. Vallee's arresting 'officer' in Chicago was one Sgt. Daniel Groth, who was later involved in the COINTELPRO raid that killed Black Panther Fred Hampton. For more on Vallee, see the March 12, 2022, article by Kevin Shay, “Documents confirm arrest of suspect in plot to kill JFK in Chicago three weeks before Dallas".
Gene
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1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:
That may be true, but the SS launched an independent investigation almost immediately after the assassination and snatched up some important evidence that never made it into the hands of the DPD, FBI or WC.
Tom
That's a valid point, and one that really disappoints me. And the destruction of records (and willful violation of the Records Act) happened almost 30 years later, in 1995. It remains to debate whether this was to coverup their complicity or simply to protect the Service's reputation. I suspect it's a bit of both.
Gene
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11 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:
Hi Gene-
Link does not seem to work.
Can you post?
I am open to the Chicago story. After all, I suspect at least two individuals traveled to Dallas for the JFKA.
What I ponder is if travelers would work in cooperation with anybody else, including local officials.
After the fact, agencies might try to do some CYA.
Ben
For perspective, Secret Service was a relatively small federal agency in 1963. In 1961, the entire Secret Service amounted to 400 individuals, of whom 300 were classified as agents (most of whom were engaged in investigating counterfeiting). There were just 28 agents on the ground in Dallas in 1963, and the agency's budget was $5.5 million; a total of 500 employees, with 70 special agents assigned to protect the President directly or to the Protective Research Section. It was an elite assignment (and still is) but my point is, SS was a relatively small agency compared to the FBI and CIA. Following reforms prompted by the assassination, by 1968, they employed 600 agents and had a $17 million budget. That ballooned up to 1,500 agents and a $150 million budget in 1981, when Hinckley shot Regan. Today there are 3,400 special agents with a $1.6 billion per year budget.
The sense that I get from reading Bolden's book and the detailed account of his ordeal is that SS did what they were told and stayed out of the way of the more powerful and larger entities (i.e., CIA, FBI, Defense Department). James J. Rowley (an Irish Catholic, like JFK) reported to Douglas Dillon, Secretary of the Treasury. Regarding the Chicago plot, it seems (some speculation here) that they were "told" to back off, and not to interfere. I don't think that they enjoyed much cooperation with the FBI ... the "tip" that they received from the FBI about the plot was characterized as being a rare occurrence. Therefore, they may not have been so much complicit as unwitting accomplices. Their subsequent actions were most certainly driven by an aspect of CYA ... that is what was emphasized to Bolden by the few friends that he had in SS at the time (e.g., "loose lips sink ships"). There's a very strong instinct to protect the reputation of any federal agency, particularly when it comes under fire and criticism following a public failure.
The link to the article is below.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/V Disk/Vallee Thomas Arthur/Item 05.pdf
Gene
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13 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:
Gene--
My only concern about multiple JFKA plots involving multiple personnel in several cities---too many mouths involved.
I would guess that these local personnel had to be unwitting accomplices.
I cannot imagine serious people plotting presidential assassinations involving many witting people across organizational lines and in many jurisdictions.
In other words, trusted confederates in an assassination plot would be long-time associates, perhaps with bonds and ideology forged in war. Bay of Pigs survivors come to mind.
For this reason, I think the Dallas Police Department was largely uninvolved in the JFKA. Maybe totally uninvolved.
After the JFKA, getting on board and complicity was rife. No one wanted to be seen as sympathetic to a communist outcast who murdered the US President, or as not following orders. We know what FBI Chief Hoover wanted.
Obviously, LBJ shut down a true investigation into the JFKA, perhaps induced by the supposed LHO-Kostikov link.
I am not saying there were no other plots. The Chicago case is interesting. But were the possible Cuban gunman connected to Vallee? Was Vallee in fact a lone nut?
For me the Chicago case may be instructive. Two Cuban gunman show up in Chicago, with sniper rifles, and rent a place along the motorcade route. Two guys, that is it. That is their plan: Shoot the president as he passes. Vallee may be unconnected.
In Dallas, the gunmen get lucky. CIA asset LHO can be manipulated. Perhaps the gunmen, likely CIA assets from the anti-Castro efforts, are tipped off about LHO, also an intel-state asset.
The cover-up had to be, as all three---LHO and the two gunsels---were CIA assets, even if the operation was rogue (although perhaps a higher-up tipped the Cubans off about LHO)
Just my IMHO.
Ben
I would recommend reading the article written by Edwin Black in November 1975, "The Plot to kill JFK in Chicago Nov. 2,1963”. As David has pointed out, there is a lot more to the story. Here is a link:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/V Disk/Vallee Thomas Arthur/Item 05.pdf
Gene
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20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Thanks for that Gene. Never saw that one before.
Based on that, I would have to agree with you: the HSCA let Rowley cover up the Chicago Plot..
Jim
While the HSCA concluded that the Secret Service was deficient in the performance of its duties in Dallas, they rejected Bolden's story. Abraham Bolden spoke with HSCA investigators in January 1968, and told them that sometime before November 2, 1963, the FBI sent a Teletype message to the Chicago Secret Service office stating that there would be an attempt on Kennedy’s life in Chicago on November 2 by a four-man hit team using high-powered rifles (quite interesting that the FBI informant was named “Lee”). The HSCA interviewed agent Ed Tucker (who arrested Valee) and other agents who were working in the Chicago office at that time, and none of them could recall any such thing. The HSCA could not document that such a case existed and found that Bolden’s story was of “questionable authenticity.’” Nonetheless, Bolden recalled how the Chicago agents bungled surveillance of the two suspected Cuban hit men, who disappeared and were never identified. One of the suspects, Homer Echeverria, was later pushed out of a plane over the Caribbean.
Gene
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Jim/David
I follow your work with great interest ... you are two of the very best, in my eyes. I know that I'm lecturing at the Choirmasters here, but the JFK story is daunting and requires persistence and basic digging. I've performed and analyzed quite a few investigations in my career as an engineer, more along technical lines and topics (not criminal), but nonetheless with human behavior aspects. Separating the wheat from the chafe is not easy, particularly with the disinformation that's inserted.
Certain facts/information just scream out as obvious clues ... things that resonate at a fundamental level for me. One of those is the idea that there was more than one location planned for the ambush, and more than one patsy to incriminate and misdirect attention. Paul Bleau's analysis of the multiple plots laid out in 1963 - LA, Chicago, Miami, Tampa, even San Antonio - makes sense to me. So does the common denominator of the FPCC as a false flag. And a friend recently pointed out the nature/details surrounding Abraham Bolden's story to me, which is revealing in many aspects. The behavior of the Secret Service is very disappointing (Vince P. would not doubt agree) ... it's painful to fathom their complicity, which persisted even 30 years later when they destroyed records and kept what they had done secret from the ARRB.
So, when I read your comment that we need to factor-in Chicago and Tampa into the analysis, it rang true to me.
Gene
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On 5/8/2023 at 8:49 PM, David Josephs said:
I hear you on this but... that seems to me way more information than Oswald would ever need to know.
Alvarado (red headed negro and $6500) was a Phillips asset imo doing what he was supposed to do for that Cuban end game. (intimidating doc # 1)
Most people are aware but don't incorporate Tampa, and Arthur Valle from Chicago in the weeks prior to Dallas. Failed assassination plans. "The Chicago Plot" is available online as a download I believe and is worth the effort. the below reports on him and the distancing from LHO - deny deny deny - leads me to my comment
What if they got him in Chicago and VALLEE is our OSWALD? The sheep-dipping can be made to look like it's been going on for as long as they want it to look and we'd be having these discussion about the mental ex-marine with an arsenal taking out JFK all on his own...
How does that play into your scenario ? Ponder this... all the activities that Oswald engaged in had the dual purpose of establishing his bona fides in the circles he was traveling to gather the info he was gathering on left and right Cuban groups AND should it be necessary, these same bona fides can get turned on him as a Castro sympathizer - FPCC - who killed JFK in a plot organizer by Castro.. cue Alvarado... let's go blow up Cuba.
I think that may have been part of the reason the CIA planted him in Mexico when he was really doing FBI work in New Orleans and Dallas. 1. to shut the FBI up and 2. to make it look like he was trying to get to Cuba giving him even more bone fides with the Cubans in the know.
Cue the credits as the music grows in intensity...
http://www.thechicagoplot.com/The Chicago Plot.pdf
(this too could have just been false flag to make it look like a number of Lone Nut marines were looking to kill JFK so, believe us when we tell you, Ozzie was just another Lone Nut with no connection to anyone especially the intelligence community).
David
Factoring the other plots that didn't go forward is important in deconstructing the story. I'm sure you have seen the excellent analysis by Paul Bleau published in Kennedys and King. Abraham Bolden’s story awakened for me the importance of understanding the Chicago plot on November 2nd (that didn’t go forward) … which turns out to be one of nine such plots laid out (in varying degrees of completion) in the 2nd half of 1963. This points to the use of a number of potential patsies, with a central emphasis upon the Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC), as well as Secret Service complicity ... particularly the head of the Washington Secret Service, James Rowley who played a key role in keeping the Chicago plot as secret as possible.
The Chicago principals - Cubans at Willow Run Airport in Michigan – are persons of interest (Homer Echevarria, Paulino Martinez Sierra, Victor Espinosa Hernandez, Cardoso). Another person of interest was one Dan Groth, a suspicious Chicago “police officer’ involved with the arrest of Vallee. Groth was later part of the SWAT team that assassinated Black Panthers Fred Hampton and Mark Clark in 1969. Groth received special training under the auspices of the FBI and CIA; he never had a regular police assignment, but worked counterintelligence, with an early focus on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. Connecting these dots convinces me that Abraham Bolden’s knowledge of the November 2nd Chicago plot – and the Secret Service’s coverup - was dangerous to the plotters and traitors that killed JFK. Chicago Secret Service Chief Maurice Martineau (who was Bolden’s antagonist) controlled the messaging by requiring that all agent reports about the incident not be in writing but funneled by dictation through his assistant … thus eliminating all documentary trails. Only Martineau and Chief James J. Rowley saw the top-secret Chicago report.
In 1995 when the Assassinations Records Review Board (ARRB) ordered the copy released … the Secret Service destroyed it instead. Martineau had told his staff on November 22nd what to believe: Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman; there was no connection with Chicago. The only mention the Press made about the Chicago plot at the time was that Vallee like Oswald was another gun-toting malcontent. Rowley was not dismissed after Dallas, but instead remained in his position until he retired in 1973. Rowley was interviewed by Leodis Matthews of the House Select Committee on September 19th, 1978 … he played dumb, and lied about any knowledge of these plots.
Matthews: Soon after Inspector Kelly arrived in Dallas and began his investigation, you received a communique through the mail, an office report, indicating that there had been a Chicago investigation of some Cubans? Rowley: I did not get that. Matthews: Mr. Rowley, let me just call your attention to JFK F-419, a document I believe that I have supplied you earlier. Have you had occasion to read through that report? Rowley: Yes, sir.
Matthews: That report indicates that you received it shortly after the assassination. It was entitled, "Possible Involvement by Quentin Pino Machado in a Conspiracy to Assassinate JFK." Did you review that report? Rowley: I do not think I reviewed that report. I did not see my initials on it, so therefore I have to assume I did not review it.
Matthews: I also call your attention to JFK F-422, a document which you also have in your possession, entitled, "Chicago Investigation of Cuban Groups Alleged to Be Involved in the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy." Do you have any recollection of having received and reviewed that report? Rowley: I think my initials are on that report which would indicate that I did read it, but I have no immediate recollection.
Leodis Matthews: Do you have any recollection of having reviewed those documents? James J. Rowley: No, sir. You mean at that time, or recently? Matthews: At the time that the documents were generated. Rowley: No.
The Committee basically covered up the Chicago plot, which was similar in logistics and principals to Dallas three weeks later (see Edwin Black’s 1975 essay). Connect these dots and we have our perpetrators.
Gene
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Curious story. In his July 26, 1963, televised speech, the President explains that the treaty will strengthen national security, lessen the risk and fear of radioactive fallout, reduce world tension by encouraging further dialogue, and prevent acquisition of nuclear weapons by nations not currently possessing them. The President emphasizes that while the treaty does not eliminate the threat of nuclear war, a limited test ban is safer than an unlimited arms race.
In a DOE blog maintained by writer Frank Munger, who covers the Dept. of Energy's Oak Ridge facilities, the following story about the signature sheet appears:
The copy surfaced on the 50th anniversary of the JFK assassination, when Gerald Boyd, former manager of the Department of Energy’s Oak Ridge office, brought it to a meeting of the East Tennessee Economic Council and showed it around. It created a stir of interest and raised additional questions. In a telephone interview, Boyd said he’d been given a copy of the document about five years ago when he was still manager of DOE’s Oak Ridge office. Boyd said he doesn’t know where the original document is, but suggested it’s probably stored in the federal agency’s archives somewhere – possibly in Atlanta. He said there’s an assumption that the signature is authentic but doesn’t know if that has been verified ... it suggests possible Oak Ridge links to the assassination. The museum registration sheet would seem to suggest Oswald was in the presence of a number of other people from Texas. The old museum, which was owned by the Atomic Energy Commission and situated on the Oak Ridge Turnpike, has since been renamed the American Museum of Science and Energy and relocated to its current site on Tulane Avenue.
Gene
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12 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:
Yeah I know.
But I wasn't debating him, I was correcting him. Chuck Schwartz posted a link to testimony proving Bill wrong. And I didn't see anybody picking up on that... so I did.
Sandy
FWIW, Ruby was interviewed on Sunday, June 7, 1964, at the Dallas County Jail by WC members Earl Warren and Gerald Ford; WC counselors Arlen Spector, Joseph Ball and J. Lee Rankin; and in the presence of his attorney Joe Tonahill, Texas special counsel Leon Jaworski, Jim Bowie (ADA), Elmer Moore (SS), and Sherriff Decker. Chuck's link and Ruby's words are found on page 189 of the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume 5:
And they questioned Henry Wade “What organization did he belong to?” or something. And if I recall, I think Henry Wade answered “Free Cuba” … and I corrected Henry Wade, because listening to the radio or KLIF, it stood out in my mind that it was Fair Play for Cuba. There was a difference. And so, he said: “Oh yes, Fair Play Cuba”.
A few things stand out to me, as I think more about this thread. First, it appears that Ruby was informed about the Oswald FPCC connections not from national news or television, but rather by listening to the radio ... specifically KLIF, owned by Gordon McLendon, who in 1975 formed the Association of Former Intelligence Officers with David Phillips. Second, how would a nightclub owner know that there was a "difference" between the 'Free Cuba' Committee (formally known as the Citizens Committee for a Free Cuba) founded by Sergio Arcacha Smith for CRC purposes and the FPCC? Also, it was Joe Tonahill who arranged for Dorothy Kilgallen to meet secretly with Ruby during his trial. Last, if the FPCC connection was widely known by the Friday night Wade press conference, why didn't the reporters asking questions already know about it?
Gene
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5 hours ago, Tom Gram said:
Those articles by Bleau are great, especially Part I - but unless NBC’s Frank McGee made a mistake, it seems like someone in the DPD did leak information about the FPCC. In DVP’s link, McGee states:
”We do know that he has been identified by police in Dallas as chairman of an organization known as Fair Play for Cuba Committee”
That seems pretty unambiguous, but the use of the word “chairman” is interesting. Could WDSU have sent out biographical info on the AP wire service that McGee thought came from the DPD? I have no idea.
This isn’t really a critical issue, I’d just never heard of the DPD mentioning the FPCC that early so I got curious. I’d also like to know a source for the earliest press reports mentioning Oswald in New Orleans.
Tom
Much of what I've learned about Ruby's behavior that Friday night is from Warren Commission exhibits. The excerpts below are from Commission Report Chapter 6 (page 342):
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-6.html
Oswald was taken from the room after a brief appearance, and Ruby remained to hear reporters question District Attorney Wade. During the press conference, Wade stated that Oswald would probably be moved to the county jail at the beginning of the next week.935 In answer to one question, Wade said that Oswald belonged to the "Free Cuba Committee." A few reporters spoke up correcting Wade and among the voices was that of Jack Ruby.936
Ruby appears to be steering Henry Wade towards KLIF Radio, and Gordon McLendon's sources:
Ruby later followed the district attorney out of the press conference, walked up to him and, according to Wade, said "Hi Henry ... Don't you know me? ... I am Jack Ruby, I run the Vegas Club. ..." 937 After talking with Johnston, he gave another card to Icarus M. Pappas, a reporter for New York radio station WNEW.939 Observing Pappas holding a telephone line open and attempting to get the attention of District Attorney Wade, Ruby directed Wade to Pappas, who proceeded to interview the district attorney.942 Ruby then called KLIF a second time and offered to secure an interview with Wade; he next summoned Wade to his phone, whereupon KLIF recorded a telephone interview with the district attorney.943 A few minutes later, Ruby encountered Russ Knight, a reporter from KLIF who had left the station for the police department at the beginning of Ruby's second telephone call. Ruby directed Knight to Wade and waited a short distance away while the reporter conducted another interview with the district attorney.
One last point - that bears upon what's being debated (i.e., that it was common knowledge about Oswald's FPCC affiliation) - is why would the reporters question Wade about Oswald's connections, if they already knew? And why would Wade not know the difference between "Free Cuba" and "Fair Play for Cuba"?
Gene
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Sandy:
It's not productive to debate the skeptics here ... they are simply regurgitating the same specious arguments that McAdam's posted many years ago. Jim Garrison provided a more insightful explanation of Wade's Freudian Slip (and Ruby's quick retort), in his October 1967 Playboy interview:
You may remember that on the night of the assassination, Dallas D.A. Henry Wade called a press conference and at one point referred to Oswald as a member of the “Free Cuba Committee” instead of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC). Jack Ruby promptly chimed in to correct him. Ruby was obviously in the jail that night on a dry run prior to his successful murder of Oswald on Sunday - a possibility the Warren Commission never bothered to consider - and could hardly have been eager to draw attention to himself. However, he must have been afraid that if the press reported Oswald was a member of the “Free Cuba Committee,” somebody might begin an investigation of that group and discover its anti–Castro and ultra–right–wing orientation. And so, he risked his cover to set the record straight and protect his fellow conspirators.
Wade unknowingly blundered, describing Oswald as being a member of the "Free Cuba Committee", a CIA-funded, anti-Castro group. Ruby quickly corrected him, stating “Fair Play Cuba,” ... steering Wade and the press towards Oswald’s one-man NOLA branch of the pro-Castro Fair Play for Cuba Committee ... why would a local strip joint owner know this, much less feel compelled to correct it? I don't buy the argument that this connection was all over the news ... the NOLA INCA people alerted the news networks to the summer antics of Oswald, but the FPCC was hardly a household name that Friday night. Oswald had only been in custody for less than 8 hours at that point. for As Paul Bleau pointed out:
"... not the experts, the police officers, lawyers or the journalists who were the ones trained in active listening and note-taking … no, it was the uneducated, night club owner, gun runner and future patsy killer Jack Ruby".
Eladio Del Valle was active in the "Free Cuba Committee", an organization formed by Sergio Arcacha Smith, both of whom worked for Santo Trafficante. During Garrison's investigation, he tried to interview del Valle to obtain information against Clay Shaw, but del Valle was murdered in February 1967. Oswald was ignored by the FPCC after several letters from its Director (V. T. Lee), and Oswald never recruited anyone to join the FPCC. The street address of Oswald’s FPCC chapter in New Orleans was ignored or overlooked, likely because his activities were performed undercover for Guy Banister and the CRC. Oswald’s anti–Castro friends from Miami and New Orleans showed up in Dallas in October ... in a “Supplementary Investigation Report” filed on November 23, 1963, by Dallas policeman Buddy Walthers, an aide to Sheriff Bill Decker, Walthers stated:
“I talked to Sorrels, the head of the Dallas Secret Service, I was advised that for the past few months at a house at 3128 Harlandale, some Cubans had been having meetings on the weekends and were possibly connected with the Freedom for Cuba Party of which Oswald was a member.”
Buddy Walthers’ report of the suspicious house on Harlendale mentions the ‘Freedom for Cuba Party' ... a reference to the anti–Castro Free Cuba Committee of which Oswald, Ferrie and certain individuals (including the elusive "second Oswald") were members. This relates to Wade's press conference where he used the phrase “Free Cuba Committee” ... Ruby, who just happened to be there, promptly chimed in to correct him.
Gene
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8 hours ago, Tom Gram said:
Thanks David, I was wondering when the FPCC info was first broadcast on TV. According to the reporter, the information on the FPCC actually came from the Dallas Police, not WDSU.
That makes sense, because the FBI, who of course knew Oswald and had an internal security case file, didn’t even figure out at the Bureau level that Oswald had lived in New Orleans until something ridiculous like 10 p.m. Friday night.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57690#relPageId=183
The information coming from the DPD suggests that an officer told reporters about the FPCC membership card. I’m not sure where else that info could have come from by 4:00 p.m.
Tom
David has some good information on his website about the news broadcasts that Friday afternoon/evening. Also, a blog from Jefferson Morley's JFK facts (in 2016) by Tom Scully contains the following comments:
Before 7:30 PM EST, NBC News, New York, was in possession of WDSU recordings of the Butler, Stuckey, Oswald radio debate, and possibly of Oswald, Steele, and possibly a third individual handing out FPCC flyers adjacent to the International Trade Mart (ITM) in August 1963.
The biographical information about Oswald, from the Associated Press library, was collated and disseminated by their wire service sometime after 4PM CST in response to the Dallas Police designating him as the “prime suspect”. That information started to be reported on air shortly before 5 PM CST. Previous to the Dallas Police designation, the only information broadcast other than Oswald’s name and age was that he had been in New Orleans and was connected with the FPCC (offered up by interested parties in that city), and NBC’s scoop that he worked in the TSBD which also came to them directly from the Dallas Police.
It appears that the FPCC connection came from New Orleans and WDSU (Butler, INCA, et al). The 2021 articles in Kennedys and King "Exposing the FPCC" written by Paul Bleau are informative.
Gene
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5 hours ago, Tom Gram said:
Ruby correcting Wade on the FPCC definitely raises an eyebrow, but isn’t it possible that Ruby heard about it on the TV or radio that day? When was Oswald’s membership in the FPCC first mentioned in the press? Another possibility is Ruby got an inside scoop from one of his cop or reporter buddies.
Good point Tom ... but that begs the question of why Ruby would feel compelled to correct Wade's statement ... out loud, in front of the cameras, even though he is not a reporter. How many Americans had ever heard of this obscure committee? That reinforces (at least to me) that he is making sure that Oswald's legend is publicly known.
He wrote to the Committe in May 1963, and then did his leaflet thing in the summer in NOLA. When he returned home to Dallas, he stayed with his family at Ruth Paine’s home ... this is where the Dallas Police recovered his Fair Play for Cuba Committee membership card. Apparently, Oswald was carrying a second Fair Play for Cuba membership card in his wallet when he was apprehended on November 22, 1963. I don't think his affiliation was widely known at the time of the press conference.
CIA Memo? When LHO "Allegedly" Visited the MC Soviet Embassy
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Joe
I read your transcripts from Lancer 1999 and Newman’s “Mexico City A New Analysis”. This is an intricate story to follow, but I agree that it’s not important to debate whether Oswald was actually there (in Mexico City) or not. What is clear is that he was impersonated (i.e., Duran's blonde-haired Oswald; no photo of the real Oswald). The content of the September 28th call makes it clear it's not Oswald. HSCA’s Edwin Lopez also knew it when he analyzed the transcript of the bogus call, which Newman characterizes as “dumb and it's stupid”. The plotters are trying to paint a picture … in Newman’s words:
'I was just there.' So, the guy on the other end, the Russian, says, 'Okay, you were here. Well, I gave you my address.' "So, the guy says, 'Okay,' you know. And this Oswald character says, 'But I didn't know it, but I know it now. So, the Soviet guy says, 'Well, why don't you come over then and give it to us. We're very close by.'
Here are the key points that I took from Newman’s Lancer presentation:
It is now apparent that the World War III pretext for a national security cover-up was built into the fabric of the plot to assassinate Kennedy. The plot required that:
The person who designed this plot had to have:
There is only one person whose hands fit into these gloves: James Angleton, Chief of CIA's Counterintelligence Staff. The false information that helped promote this WWIII “Kostikov balloon” virus got into Oswald’s file and concluded that the person who controlled the file at those points was Ann Egerter, one of the six or so hand-picked operatives working in James Jesus Angleton’s CI/SIG unit.
We also see the hand of Lyndon Johnson directing a lot of the cover-up, with the Mexico City story driving everything that follows. It's a very powerful argument, a big weapon, not just in the hands of LBJ, but in the hands of anybody who would want an autopsy report burned, who would intimidate enlisted guys, medical technicians.
Gene