David Lifton

Please remind me: What tapes (or other records) are at Wesleyan library? DSL

Yes, I believe so. I'd like to see any recorded record.

My best recollection: Michael probably made clear that he did not believe Oswald shot JFK. (5/13/22 - 11:30 AM PDT)

Vince: Nothing shocks me anymore. DSL (5/11/22 - 1 PM PDT)

FWIW, I wasn't aware of the Max Good interview of Michael Paine until very recently. But note (in that interview) how Michael Paine qualified his statement, with the word "if". Quote: "I think if Oswald did it. etc. " I don't believe Paine used the word "if" in his FBI interviews (or WC testimony). But correct me if I'm wrong. Of course, I'd like to think that the publication of Best Evidence by multiple publishers may have affected MP's opinion (about LHO), but I don't know for a fact that it did. DSL

It is my understanding that there are four possible places where one might contribute research material: 1. NARA; 2. Library of Congress; 3. Sixth Floor Museum; 4. JFK Library. I cannot speak for any of these four places --i.e., whether they would accept any such donation or what they would do with it, once received. (DSL, 5/10/22_ 12 noon)

No, I do not. But here's what I think (again, this is speculation, based on what MP told me): When in DPD custody, Michael probably (or possibly) made some comment indicating that he didn't believe that Oswald shot JFK (or would shoot anybody, for that matter); and that probably angered (or enraged) Fritz (who was operating on the "reality"-- i.e., the false reality-- that LHO was JFK's assassin). Remember what Fritz said to the media on 11/22/63, "This case is cinched!" (approx); and so, when confronted with a completely unwelcome "character witness" (in the form of Michael Paine), Fritz simply exploded in anger, and "vented" by striking Michael Paine. That's my best guess. If I remember more (or locate the audio tapes) I'll let you know. P.S.: I'm surprised that Paine did not relate this experience with Fritz to the Warren Commission. Perhaps he was simply afraid. (Or possibly he did, and it was omitted in the published version. The original court reporter's transcript ought to be checked.) PPS: Another thought: I'm surprised that he (MP) did not relate it to Ruth Paine. Of course, Ruth (apparently) accepted LHO's guilt; I don't think that Michael did. DSL (5/10/22_ 11:44 AM PDT) PPPS: When I spoke with Michael, there was no sign whatsoever that he was "losing" his memory, or of any mental decline -- at least none that I could perceive. I'm not an expert, but he seemed perfectly cognizant of what he was saying. (I don't think he ever said: "I'm so sorry, but I just don't recall. Too many years have passed" etc.) Another thing I should point out: As I recall, Michael very much admired Oswald for the worldwide travels in which he had been engaged. (DSL, 11:55 AM PDT)

In 1995, I was briefly in the Boston area —specifically, in Boxborough, Mass. At that time, arranged to interview Michael Paine, who I had learned lived nearby. The interview lasted for about two hours and was audiotaped. I’m writing here from recollection; but here is the main thing that I remember. I am sure that I made clear to Michael Paine that I did not believe that Lee Oswald was JFK's assassin; further, that I believed he was posing as a Marxist. As our interview proceeded, Michael —who passed in March 2018 —became more and more upset,and finally ended up bursting into tears, and crying. Really sobbing. It seemed obvious to me that Michael Paine’s view of Oswald had changed (over the years, and from whatever it originally was) and now (perhaps) felt a considerable amount of guilt. One detail that stands out: Michael told me that DPD Captain Will Fritz was very intimidating, and struck him- —yes, hit him, or slapped him, real hard, right across the face —because Fritz was not happy with whatever it was that Paine was telling him, about Oswald. At some point, it is my intention to locate the tapes (and/or the transcripts or notes I may have made) and donate this material to the Sixth Floor Museum. DSL (5/8/22 8:30 AM PDT)

Hi Gene: What is the source of this Marguerite quote? I don't recall this being in her WC testimony; but perhaps I am mistaken. Thanks. DSL (5/8/22 - 3:50 PM PDT)

Error. Sorry, no text.

Ron Bulman has done a good deed by posting here a link which will lead to Doug Horne's discussion of the chain of possession of the Zapruder film. One key to understanding the deception that was unfolding on the weekend following the assassination is to follow and understand Horne's account of the two sets of briefing boards that were made that weekend. I'll return to this again soon; but here is the link: The story is easy to follow, but if you wish to understand the technicalities, prepare to be immersed. DSL

5/02/22 Tink I have no idea why I did not reply sooner. My apologies! DSL

MM: Check the S & O report. I believe the time is stated in there. (I thought it was 12 midnight). DSL

Hi Walt: Thanks much! I appreciated your description of being spooked when you first read Best Evidence. Believe me, I had the same experience when researching and writing it. I received hundreds of letters from readers after B.E. was first published (Jan. 1981) and a number of readers also related the same experience. As you will see, the Rosetta Stone for Oswald will be in Final Charade. DSL (5/2/22 - 5:10 AM PST)

George: Thanks for your interest, but. . please note: 1. I'm well aware of the train crossing the Triple Underpass, at the time. 2. That train --whether it was there by coincidence, or as a distraction--I do not know, but. . 3. The train (or trains, if more than one train was utilized), that is the focus of my work, was located on one of the two railroad sidings that "dead-ended" behind the fence on the grassy knoll. 4. Because of the 'shiny' nature of those rails (in the Itek "Nix Film Report", I suspect that those sidings were relatively new, put down (i.e., laid down) just a few months prior to the assassination. In any event, those rails were photographed --an aerial view --which appears in the Nix Film report, published by Itek (circa 1965 - 1967, I do not remember the exact date). 5. A few weeks (or perhaps a month or two) after the assassination, these "dead end" sidings were removed. How do I know that? Because - around 1967 (yes, 50 plus years ago!) -- I knew someone who was in the U.S. Air Force, and was either "stationed" in Dallas, or was "passing through" the area. (I remember his name, but am not publishing it here). I asked him if he could please do me a favor, and when he returned to Dallas, photograph the railroad yard area. He did so, and. . . 6. And what did I discover? That one or more of his colored photographs clearly established that the rails that had appeared so "fresh" from July 1963 (in the Nix Film report) had been torn up after the assassination; so that, for all practical purposes, they no longer existed! --i.e., no longer existed as the "dead-end" sidings shown in the Nix Film report. Instead, the area showed just a bunch of rubble. 7. To recap: the railroad track that crossed over the Triple Underpass may well have had a train crossing over it at the time of the assassination (and in fact, two DPD officers [named Foster and White]) were standing there at the time of JFK's murder and testified to the Warren Commission. But that railroad track is the "first" continuous track, extending from the Union Terminal area, over to the Triple Underpass. The two dead-end "sidings" to which I am referring are the ones located between the Union terminal Tower ("Bowers tower") and the fence atop the grassy knoll. That's where they ended. Those two sidings are the ones which dead ended behind the grassy knoll, and are the ones which contained a train, the train towards which the "police" ran (and boarded); and which then pulled away in the 90 seconds (approx) following the murder of President Kennedy. A final reminder: let me repeat what Zapruder told Barbara Bridges, when she questioned him in 1965: "The police, they were running behind me"; to which Barbara, who was a bit confused, responded: "These police, Mr. Zapruder, they were the police from the motorcade?" To which Zapruder, clearly taken aback by her response, replied: "Well, where else would they be from?" Thanks for your interest. DSL, 4/27/22 - 4:30 AM PDT

Micah: Please send me your email address. Thanks. DSL dlifton@gmail.com

Sandy: Please send me your email address. Thanks. DSL (dlifton@gmail.com)

Larry: One ore thing. . .: Had you ever heard of the Barbara Bridges tape? I'm going to have to find it. Best, DSL 4/26/22 - 9:42 PM PDT

Larry: One more piece of data. As I recall, there's an FBI report that established just when Robin MacNeill made his call to New York. It was 12:35 or 12:36 (!). (I believe that was in CD5 or CD7. Do you have that FBI report?) Anyway: if I'm correct. that established how quickly these events unfolded. •The switcher train pulled in, and police took up their positions. •The motorcade entered Dealey Plaza. •JFK was shot; and his limo sped away. •The "police" --some of them --ran by Zapruder, and boarded the train. •The train pulled out. ** ** ** It was that fast. Two minutes, and it was over. DSL

Larry: Interesting. Thanks for the detail. But please note: On the Bell Film (and within one to two minutes of JFK's murder, when the limo has just sped through the Triple Underpass) one can actually see a train (the one I'm talking about, i.e ., located on the nearest siding) pulling out; i.e., leaving the area via that railroad siding. In other words, the event I'm talking about --"police" rushing aboard a train (which then pulled out) -- probably occurred within 90 seconds of JFK's murder. It was that fast. Furthermore, as detailed in some research I published decades ago (1966!), I interviewed a witness (the one who took the famous picture of the limo out on Stemmons) who described how a "switcher train" pulled onto one of those sidings, just before the motorcade reached Dealey Plaza. Changing the subject a bit, I would be interested in getting more precise information as to exactly when Robin MacNeill was up at the "corner" of the wall, and gazing out at the area. Because that is when he must have seen what he then reported, after he ran back to the TSBD and made his call to New York. In terms of train cars which did NOT move --or moved "later" (whenever "later" might be). I would cite Bond Slides 4, 5, 6 through 9 (if memory serves). I'm sure you are aware that Willis Slide 5 was apparently altered, to remove any trace of a train, which was located immediately behind the (semi-circular) monument. That removal was established -- i.e., proved -- some decades ago. IMHO: its simply not possible to have the train that is visible in Bond 4, 5, 6 etc., and not have it plainly visible in Willis 5. (I believe that ha been established, "beyond a reasonable doubt", to cite an expression we all know too well). Finally, there is Zapruder's statement about "the police" who were "running behind me." The Barbara Bridges Tape There is something you may not know about that statement: I possess a rare audiotape of a very early JFK researcher --one Barbara Bridges (who I believe was a UC Berkeley student). Here's a key passage, which i'm quoting from memory: "The police, Mr. Zapruder; the police who you said were running behind you: They were the police from the motorcade?" (Barbara was genuinely confused). Responds Zapruder: "Well, er, " (pauses): "Where else would the be from?" Just hearing that --years ago --made a powerful impression. Again, this interview was conducted in 1965 --I repeat, 1965. * * * Frankly, I had this information for decades; but, for reasons I do not quite understand, I didn't "connect [all] the dots" until very recently. The Secret Service and the Dallas Radio Station tapes. Of particular importance is the business of Secret Service agents collecting all the radio tapes from multiple Dallas radio stations, and sending them to that Oklahoma Air Force Base; where a team of people sat with headphones, preparing these detailed lists of the contents. Larry: Were you aware of that SS document? Have you studied it carefully? A question (of many) that I now have: Who were the Secret Service agents involved in that activity? Who were the "transcribers"? On whose authority was this ordered? Why was this "audio collection" project never the subject of an FBI investigation? Its amazing to me that 55 plus years after JFK's murder, this remarkable "audio collection" activity is hardly known (in the JFK research community) -- yet there it is, in the public record (because of a sentence or two in the intro to that CD); so here's an important event that is hardly known, and was never investigated. FWIW: I welcome your assistance. Best, DSL

Hi Micah: Here are my recollections about the source of my info about the shooters and the train: the Willis Slides, the Bond slides, the Bell Film, plus audio from the National Archives. Back around 1971, I spent a week (at least) in Washington, D.C., at the National Archives, wearing a headset, and going through all of what NARA called the "Dallas Radio Tapes" --every single one of them. The tapes had been collected from all the Dallas radio stations by the Secret Service, shortly after President Kennedy's murder. They were then brought to an Air Force Base in Oklahoma, where a team of military people listened to each one, and listed the contents. (Transcripts may have been made; I worked off the actual “lists of contents".) The result -- a document several hundred pages in length -- appeared as one entry on a list of Warren Commission Documents (listing about 1500 items, officially called "List of Basic Source Materials.") Around 1971, I went to Washington, D.C., and made it a project to review this entire tape collection. Two reel to reel tape decks were necessary: one was provided by NARA; I rented the other (a SONY 560, as I recall). One by one I reviewed the tapes, typing notes using a portable typewriter (back then, there were no personal computers ). Basically, I was looking for any "needle in the haystack" that might be helpful to my ongoing study of the JFK case. I found a number of things of interest, but one stood out above all the others. Let me give it a name, for the purpose of this post on the London Education Forum: "The Train and the Police." One of those tapes had the account of a Dallas newsman (Robert MacNeil, I believe). The witness immediately left the press bus and ran up the knoll to the area where the west end of the wooden fence met the Triple Underpass. Very excitedly, he (MacNeil, I believe) related what he had seen: "The police were running aboard a train!" he exclaimed-- again, this is just minutes after the shooting, and MacNeil was phoning in a report --to his network in New York -- from a phone at the TSBD. Unfortunately, I'm writing this from memory, but I spent days reviewing this audio taped material, wearing a headset, and with two high quality reel-to-reel tape recorders in front of me --one supplied by NARA (to play the original tapes); the other, a rental, so I could make copies of selected audio excerpts, as necessary. Also, I typed up partial transcripts, as necessary. As already stated, o execute this project, I worked out of the office of a top official at NARA. Re the two high quality tape recorders: one was supplied by NARA; the other, a SONY tape deck that I rented. This project took one or two weeks (at least) working 9 to 5; and by the end, I knew that I had a complete audio record of anything of significance that was on the Dallas "radio station tapes". MY APPROACH FWIW: My entire approach -- once I learned about this audio collection -- was motivated by the realization that the Secret Service (for some reason) had gone to the trouble of collecting all these audio tapes within weeks JFK's murder. That, in itself, was very interesting, because I don't believe this project was known to the Warren Commission. But the tapes had been carefully collected, and sent to an Air Force Base in Oklahoma for duplication. Then, several military people were assigned the job of listening to each and every tape, and producing a written inventory of its contents. (Again: Not a transcript, just an inventory; a topical listing of the contents of each tape.) This was one huge project, and struck me as something that must have been ordered by someone who wanted to make sure that the entire Dallas audio record — i.e., the “public” audio record— had been checked, to see what was there (i.e., "out there"), so that there would never be any “surprises.” Finally, the results of this entire project had been stored at NARA, "for history", but never given to the Warren Commission (as far as I could tell) which again, and in itself, was weird. By the time I left Washington --and this was the same trip, as I recall, where I spent about two hours interviewing SS Agent William Greer, at his home-- I knew I had something unusual, and possibly significant. THE IMPLICATIONS The whole business of "police running aboard a train" (which then pulled out) was obviously important. It meant (a) that the assassins (or their "security detail," as I came to view these people) were dressed as police; and (b) that their egress from the area was via a train (visible on the Bond Slides and the Bell Film) that was pulled up on a railroad siding that terminated behind the fence on the grassy knoll. (There were two such sidings, clearly visible, for example, in an aerial photo taken by Arthur Schatz, of Newsweek, and to which I bought rights, in order to be able to use it in my future research). FWIW: IMHO, you can actually see the train "pulling out" on the Bell Film. Furthermore, according to one or two Warren Commission witnesses (e.g., Harold Norman, who was looking out a window on the fifth floor of the TSBD), there were a few armed men atop one of the trains. (e.g., see WC testimony of Harold Norman). As far as I could tell, none of this was known to the Warren Commission (or even the FBI). I intend to write about all of this in Final Charade, including all relevant citations; plus a quote from SS Agent William Greer, the last thing he said to me, as I was standing just outside his front door, when exiting his home: "I'll tell you one thing: Chief Rowley (then SS Chief) would sure like to know what you're doing!” (DSL, 4/26/22 5PM PDT)

From memory: It was Sibert and O'Neill. (But perhaps there were others. Not sure.) But remember: they were not permitted entry for a short while; and --I believe -- that was to conceal the fact that the coffin (just arrived from AF-1) was empty. See B.E. --and Ch 28, "The Clandestine Intermission" for details. I think (but am not sure) that it was FBI Agent O'Neill who was particularly outraged at the notion that the FBI could be kept out of the autopsy room. DSL

Hi Sandy: As a close student of the Parkland record, and someone who interviewed the key Dallas doctors (going back to October 1966, and using a tape recorder), some comments and corrections are called for. #1: I have always believed that the image(s) of the back of the head are false --either because certain autopsy photographs were altered (e.g., using a photo enlarger); or (alternatively) because there was actual reconstruction at the rear of the head, before a particular photo was taken. Bottom line: there were two possible ways any false image could have been created. Take you choice. This is discussed in B.E., Chapter 30. #2: The Dallas record is clear that (at Parkland Hospital), there was a defect (a hole) at the bottom of the back of the head, in the occipital area.. As I recall, it was Dr. Jenkins (the anesthesiologist) who wrote (in his report dated 11/22 or 11/23/63), that "the cerebellum protruded through" the wound. If you will consult Grant's Atlas of Anatomy (or any comparable anatomy book), it will be obvious that that JFK sustained a head wound that was located at the bottom of the back of his head (in the occipital area), in order for the cerebellum to have "protruded" through the wound. At the time (Jan 1967, approx) Jenkins specified (to me) that the hole at the back of the head was the size of an egg (emphasizing that he was referring to type you'd buy at a supermarket). #3: The Bethesda X-ray (one of the lateral X-Rays) shows no defect at the back of the head; and the occipital bone is plainly visible. Rather, the defect is located towards the front of the head. A clear conflict. However the image alteration was accomplished, that image bears little relationship to what was observed at Parkland, and has obviously been falsified. #4: I published these "official" images in the 1988 Carroll & Graff edition of Best Evidence, and in the mass paperback edition that followed, some years later. #5: Addressing your assertion: "The body alteration, on the other hand, occurred so early on and quickly that it seems to have been planned before the assassination." You might be more specific and spell out precisely what you mean by asserting it was planned "before the assassination."

FWIW (at this late date): Yes, the (planned) cover-up was an integral part of the overall conspiracy. (Otherwise, its just a shooting, with an ad hoc cover-up). As I used to describe the situation when giving lectures: "This was a plot, with a 'built in' cover-up." An even better way to describe it is to view the combined murder of Kennedy (and the associated cover-up) as a "strategic deception." That's the language I've used for years, and it best describes what happened in Dallas. (DSL, 4/25/22, 6:45 AM PDT)

FWIW (at this late date): Yes, the (planned) cover-up was an integral part of the overall conspiracy. (Otherwise, its just a shooting, with an ad hoc cover-up). As I used to describe the situation when giving lectures: "This was a plot, with a 'built in' cover-up." An even better way to describe it is to view the combined murder of Kennedy (and the associated cover-up) as a "strategic deception." That's the language I've used for years, and it best describes what happened in Dallas. (DSL, 4/25/22, 6:45 AM PDT)