Myra Bronstein

No way. I say no way on "Ruby" and very unlikely on "Dulles."

It's this one - I have a better copy someplace...this is the photo allegedly taken by Jerry Dicus - One of the bodyguards of Howard Hughes, who was there in Dallas allegedly watching the motorcade on Main from 'the viewing stand.' I contacted the individual selling the photo on eBay - but he didn't have much more info to provide. Interesting that this version crops out the supposed Ruby lookalike. http://cgi.ebay.com/Photo-JFK-Taken-by-How...bayphotohosting So, does anyone think it's actually Ruby and Dulles? Opinions?

I got the impression from watching US vs John Lennon (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=777046699234389996&q=The+U.S.+versus+John+Lennon) that towards the end Lennon and Ono felt used and mistreated by Rubin. Apparently Hoffman & Rubin committed Lennon & Ono to protesting at the Republican National Convention (in Fla?) at a time when Lennon/Ono were realizing that their lives were in danger from their political outspokenness, and they refused to be manipulated into going to the convention. John expressed anger about it on Mike Douglas's show, and Yoko talked about it in footage near the end of the movie.

Well I suffered through Ultimate Sacrifice and applaud you on your wisdom in opting not to Dawn. I consider it a "mob dunnit" book in lockstep with official HSCA cover-up #2. To add insult to injury it's several hundred pages too long and agonizingly redundant. Why is it that disinfo books tend to be overlong? ... I suppose they're hoping to occupy us with these red herrings for as long as possible, possibly with a little gratuitous torture thrown in for spite.

Ok, thanks Larry. I'm looking at that appendix right now, in fact I'm re-reading your book. A lot to absorb there. Drugs and arms, right. Can't have planes taking guns somewhere then coming back empty. That's bad business. Take guns and return with drugs. That's good business. On edit: I re-read the appendix Larry. Fascinating stuff about Underhill. Also, the arms angle is interesting in light of the apparent fact that Oswald was part of some kind of investigation into the ease of ordering guns by mail (Senator Dodd's investigation?). Probably just a coincidence.

I think it's really important to recognize that Kennedy interrupted an ongoing process, many ongoing processes actually. I wonder if any uncorrupted person could have survived as president at that point in time with all those forces aligned against them.

Funny, I'm blaming Larry Hancock too. I just put another book (a thousand pager... ) on pause to reread Someone Would Have Talked. I'll get back to that other book but I really needed another pass at SWHT.

Hi Myra, This may be of use, not drugs but gold. I found it to be a vitally important topic on the forum in my macro understanding of the murkier side of things in that part of the world. I hope you find it as important as me. I believe Sterling was ill but is or should be back with us soon. Gold Warriors Topic Gary Thank you Gary. This is just the kind of thing I want to read. And I wasn't aware of the book 'til you mentioned it.

Yes Shanet. And didn't the Taliban prohibit growing of poppies as well as refuse to allow the US access to the caspian pipeline? So many reasons to invade; so few tall terrorists in caves.

Really interesting idea Robert. I don't think it would be the first time that a country is punished for refusing to turn over their monetary system to private central bankers. I read that the Rothschild banker Jacob Schiff retaliated against Russian Tsars, who spurned central banks & supported President Lincoln (who bypassed the central banks to print his own greenbacks), by spending $20 million through the firm, Kuhn, Loeb & Co. to finance the Russian Revolution.

Ron, I really think David Lifton comes up with a plausible scenario in Best Evidence. I think the body was taken from the casket on Air Force 1 during the LBJ swearing in ceremony while it was on the ground. And I think that's why LBJ insisted on the immediate swearing in, to keep the plane on the ground, and Jackie was forced to attend the ceremony to leave the casket unattended, which she was not otherwise inclined to do. So the big heavy casket was empty when it arrived in DC, and empty when it arrived at Bethesda. But it weighed so much it wasn't obvious. The body was reunited with the casket at Bethesda, after arriving in the body bag described by Paul O'Connor. The alteration on the body was done either at Walter Reed in DC (per Lifton) or in Dallas (or en route I suppose). There was a segment in The Men Who Killed Kennedy that dealt with a Dallas coroner that may have done the work, based on what his wife/ex-wife said. I don't recall his name.

Now I'm more inclined to believe that Babushka Lady was in fact Betty Oliver. She would have had the connections to put here at the scene with a camera. Do you have a (humble ) opinion on Babushka Lady's identity James?

Not according to Martino anyway. The plot would have fallen apart when Oswald was discovered at the Theatre, and Tippit would have been an unplanned casualty. 'Poor dumb cop.' - lee Oh, I just now read that quote in context: http://www.jfklancer.com/WCnar.html It was new to me. Thanks Lee.

This puts the brutal and public nature of the murder in another light. Whereas it first seemed like they were sending a message that they can and will arrogantly blow away those that cross them and dare to think they are really president, it would now seem like they wanted it public and horrible to evoke maximum horror and hatred against Castro to fuel the resulting Cuba invasion.

Deleted.

I believe one can generally count on Charles D to recommend a good book. Like you Myra, he is a reader. A couple of other items: Alfred McCoy: The Politics of Heroin A brief, but informative Forum thread with comments by the author: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5671 The CIA, the Military & Drugs Just the synopses of these Radio Free America broadcasts are fascinating: http://afasummary.blogspot.com/2004/12/rfa...tary-drugs.html Thanks Charles & Mike. My next step was to ask for reading recommendations. Now I don't need to. I sure think it's weird that the "progressive" radio station "Air America" used the exact name as the CIA drug running airline. I wonder if they're aware of that. Or if it was intentional.

I've read almost nothing on this subject and am starting to wonder if that's an oversight. Peter Dale Scott places great emphasis on the significance of the international drug trade in his book "Deep Politics." However I haven't read his books that focus more directly on the subject, such as "Cocaine Politics" & "Drugs, Oil & War." More specifically, no matter how much I read about the Vietnam war I can't find a satisfactory answer to the question "why indochina/why Vietnam?" (I know the war machine wanted a profitable war, but how did they settle specifically on Vietnam?) until I start factoring in drugs. There's a good summary here: "Perhaps the biggest secret of the Vietnam War is that our Central Intelligence Agency seized control of the infamous Golden Triangle during that time period, then, along with assistance from various elements of Organized Crime, shipped huge amounts of heroin out of that area into our country. Because piles of money were being made from this practice and many others, those who stood to profit from this horrendous war — the armament manufacturers, bankers, military men, and drug dealers — met any suggestion to withdraw from Vietnam with immediate consternation. But that's exactly what John F. Kennedy intended to do upon re-election. In fact, he had already planned on telling the American people that their troops would be back home by 1965. Think about this momentous decision for a moment. If we had exited Vietnam by 1965, EIGHT years of bloodshed in the jungles and civil unrest on America's streets and campuses could have been alleviated. ... So, even though the above information is only the tip of the iceberg, now do you see why it was so important to the CIA/Mobster/international banker cabal that JFK didn't pull America out of Vietnam? The money (via illegal drug trafficking and for the War Machine) was incredible, while CONTROL of another area of the globe (the Golden Triangle) was secured. ..." http://www.serendipity.li/cia/babel1/finaljudgment92.html Obviously this drug angle is especially, potentially, important for those of us who think that President Kennedy's determination for peace was his undoing. What do y'all think?

Ah, interesting. Thank you James. This is really helpful to understand the original plot as opposed to the revised plot. I think we all know to observe who benefited. But we need to look also at who would have benefited if things had gone according to plan a. So, to follow up on Gary's question--was Zapruder more than a simple dress maker? Also, I assume Tippit fit into the plan by being Lee's driver to the airport. Any theory about what went wrong there and got Tippit prematurely killed? I assume that's where the plot fell apart.

Thank you James!

Thanks Shanet. Hey, has anyone ever seen the photo referred to below? "Another example of Morales indiscretion was allowing his photograph to be taken by Kevin Schofield at the El Molino restaurant on 4th August, 1973. The picture appeared in the Arizona Republic with the following text: “Feted by friends at a fiesta Saturday was former American counsul to Cuba, David Sanchez, left, who was in that country when Castro took over… In government service for 28 years, Sanchez is now consultant in the office of deputy director for Operations Counter-insurgency and Special Activities in Washington.” http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmorales.htm

John, Do you feel that there was a time when the CIA genuinely wanted to topple Castro? If so then when did they change their policy from wanting to nail Castro to wanting him preserved as the boogeyman close to home?

I agree about Harvey Gene, and have him on my original list. David Talbot gave details of Harvey in his book "Brothers" that make him seem like a prime suspect. By "one heck of a motive" do you mean his job reassignment within the CIA after he pissed off the Kennedys?

I agree that the man in question is African American and therefore not Morales. Myra, allow me to disagree. If one carefully looks at the BBC videotape, from the RFK assassination on youtube, one can clearly see Morales and he’s very much alike the man in the Murray photograph. Johansson Well Mark that assumes that the man photographed at the Ambassador was Morales. And I'm unconvinced that it is. However, now that I realize how dark Morales was, and presumably he could get a tan just like anyone else and be even darker on a given year, I'll look again. I haven't seen many photos of him though so I don't have much to compare against.

Ruby was telling as much of the truth as he could and still avoid dying in jail...oops! He talked too much, mayhaps... Myra, a book I'd recommend for you is the James Ellroy novel, AMERICAN TABLOID. ... Thanks for the recommendation Cliff; I'll check it out. It seem like every list of suspects/perps should include HL Hunt. But not every list I see here does. Don't understand that.

Talbot speaks the truth. And the Education forum/Spartacus is free.