Myra Bronstein

Peter: Since about 1973 I have not "wonder(ed) about who really won WW 2". Fascism came to American in the name of National Security. (To paraphrase Garrison in his Playboy interview). Dawn "When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the American flag." --Huey Long On edit: Also, "Sure we'll have Fascism here, but it will come as an anti-Fascism movement." --Huey Long

MARK, JFK WAS DOOMED FROM THE MOMENT THAT LBJ ACCEPTED THE VICE PRESIDENT POSITION ON THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET, A DECISION THAT WAS MADE AT THE LA HOTEL DURING THE 1960 DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION. THAT'S WHERE PHIL GRAHAM OF THE WASINGTON POST AND JOHN CONNALLY CONVINCED LBJ TO TAKE THE SECOND SPOT, CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT 20% OR 1 OUT OF 5 US PRESIDENTS DIED IN OFFICE. LBJ REPLIED THAT THOSE ODDS COULD BE IMPROVED. BK This thing was so well thought out and carried out. It was not something that was put together in a few months, or even a year. I agree totally with Mr. Kelly on this point. And I totally agree with the total agreement. I don't think there's any way LBJ would have given up his post as senate majority leader for a warm pitcher of spit unless he knew he'd be climbing over the real President's body. I'm not convinced that Madeline Brown really heard all she said she heard, but I do believe that the essence of her account is accurate. There's no way that two men as evil as Johnson and HL Hunt would sit back and hope... I'm even leaning towards thinking that the Bay of Pigs was a trap for President Kennedy. I envision a motive of making the new president look like an incompetent, and more important getting the right wing cuban exiles to dispise him. By priming the exiles in this way, they could then be used by Johnson and Hunt and the CIA/mob--who had their own motives, protecting war profits among them--to do the dirty work. The assassination became urgent for LBJ in Nov of '63 because of the Bobby Baker case. But JFK became president when an array of snakes were poised to strike. He might have been spared if he'd turned out to be a like minded snake, but he turned out to be a fascist's nightmare--a president who thought he worked for the people.

The title sure indicates a JFK-Watergate connection. For anyone who read it, did it help to illuminate Watergate for you? Well here's an exerpt from his JFK book via John's Spartacus page: "(22) Peter Dale Scott, Deep Politics and the Death of JFK (1993) The Watergate break-in of 1972 (in which, I have always been convinced, Nixon was not so much a guilty perpetrator as a guilty victim) followed Nixon's secret negotiations with Hanoi for disengagement from Vietnam, significantly advanced by his May 1972 visit to Moscow, where he signed the first Strategic Arms Limitation Agreement."

_______________________________________________ Not at all a fanciful scenario, that. And let us keep in mind what transpired after the pardon: there were TWO assassination attempts on Ford -with Nelson waiting in the wings. Interesting, for want of a better word, how the media handled those unsuccessful assassination attempts...there were a couple on Clinton, also, but they seemed more like warnings and were carried out from somewhat of a distance. JG Omygod I forgot all about the attempts on Ford. Hm. Thanks John. Geez, they tried twice within seventeen days?! "...Those were the words composed by Sara Jane Moore just before her failed assassination attempt on President Gerald Ford on September 22, 1975. Ford had survived another failed assassination attempt by one Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme a mere seventeen days earlier." http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Sara%20Jane%20Moore But Fromm's gun wasn't loaded--weird: "Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme ...Witness testimony of the incident varies. Lyn was very calm, "Easy boys, I'm still." One witness said Lyn had said, "It wasn't loaded anyway." That testimony was withheld from the trial." However... "Sara Jane Moore ...At the tender age of 42, she embraced the so-called "counter-culture" way of life and went underground. Apparently she didn't go too deeply underground. The FBI managed to dig her up and in their infinite wisdom, decided she would be a prime candidate to gather information about the Patty Hearst kidnapping and the Symbionese Liberation Army. Poor Sara. I guess she wasn't that good of an undercover agent. She was quickly found out by her friends in the underground circles and ostracized. What's a poor girl gotta do to win her friends back and get a little self-esteem? How `bout shooting the President? As President Ford was leaving the St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco, Sara Jane Moore was about forty feet away. She pulled out her .38 caliber Smith & Wesson and took aim. Fortunately for President Ford, a bystander in the crowd by the name of Oliver Sipple saw what was about to happen and grabbed Moore's arm just as she fired. Instead of hitting its intended target, the bullet ricocheted off a wall and slightly wounded a nearby cab driver. She was quickly apprehended and brought to trial. At the proceedings, she never once tried to claim her innocence. As a matter of fact, she had this to say. "There comes a point when the only way you can make a statement is to pick up a gun." Sara Jane Moore received a life sentence. In 1979, she managed to escape prison but it was short lived. She was apprehended the next day and returned to prison."

Well, I can't take on two John's at once.... Sorry. As you know Malcolm X is one of the big four murdered in the 60's. And shortly before the FBI killed him he'd announced that he was working with Dr. King, the FBI's other victim. He was immensely charismatic and had a compelling personal story, and--like the other great men--was clearly capable of evolving. I think I have kind of the opposite logic; if not that many people are interested then perhaps not that many people are aware of what a force, and a promise, he was. What with this being an education forum I think people could be made aware. He's a dot that should not be left out of the connections. Myra, simply start a thread in the political conspiracies section. Some of the questions to ask. exactly who firebomed his home. Why did all eyewitnesess descriptions of the "shotgun man" differ substancially from the man police arrested, and charged, who killed 4x Ameer, and why did he claim, days before his death, that he was being targeted like Malcolm... While I appreciate the helpfulness, that's not the point Stephen. The point is that this is an education forum and the choice of topic headers is indicative of what's important, who matters, what was lost, and what can't be forgotten. I doubt that our educational (ptooey) institutions will teach kids about this great and significant man. There were four huge assassinations in the sixties, not three. Each of those four assassinations is symptomatic of the government ills, and who the pathogens target. And why. ADDING a forum for Malcolm X would largely be symbolic, but it's very important symbolism. It says we aren't willing to let a great man be erased from the planet and from our memories. It shows those that know nothing about him that he's someone to study. Someone that mattered and matters. Hell, I know no one will use the forum. We'll all just come here as always. It's symbolic and remedial. He should not be excluded from the forum categories.

Here he is with a trophy. Mark, Do you know the date and circumstances of this photo?

Damn damn. Look at the articles they have in just the few months in '78 after Mr. Flynt was shot: September 1978 "Conspiracy Against Truth -- The Shooting of Larry Flynt" by Ron Ridenour. October 1978 "The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy -- How the CIA Set Up Oswald" by Mark Lane. November 1978 "The Assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (Was James Earl Ray a Patsy?)" by Mark Lane. December 1978 "The Assassination of Malcolm X (Government and NYPD Conspiracy?)" by Eric Norden. Each issue is $30-100. Not feasible. C'mon now folks. If ya got old issues fess up. No one will tease you... much.

Dunno how good this article is but at least it's questioning the official myth, and pointing in some of the right directions. The key to me is Leo Ryan and his battle against the CIA. http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/Jonestown.html (Hey, anyone here have an opinion on how dependable Ratical is? Seems like I'm finding myself there more and more...) "The ultimate victims of mind control at Jonestown are the American people. If we fail to look beyond the constructed images given us by the television and the press, then our consciousness is manipulated, just as well as the Jonestown victims' was. Facing nuclear annihilation, may see the current militarism of the Reagan policies, and military training itself, as the real "mass suicide cult." If the discrepancy between the truth of Jonestown and the official version can be so great, what other lies have we been told about major events? History is precious. In a democracy, knowledge must be accessible for informed consent to function. Hiding or distorting history behind "national security" leaves the public as the final enemy of the government. Democratic process cannot operate on "need to know." Otherwise we live in the 1984 envisioned by Orwell's projections and we must heed his warning that those who control the past control the future. The real tragedy of Jonestown is not only that it occurred, but that so few chose to ask themselves why or how, so few sought to find out the facts behind the bizarre tale used to explain away the death of more than 900 people, and that so many will continue to be blind to the grim reality of our intelligence agencies. In the long run, the truth will come out. Only our complicity in the deception continues to dishonor the dead. ... There are certain signs that show the types of poisons that lead to the end of life. Cyanide blocks the messages from the brain to the muscles by changing body chemistry in the central nervous system. Even the "involuntary" functions like breathing and heartbeat get mixed neural signals. It is a painful death, breath coming in spurts. The other muscles spasm, limbs twist and contort. The facial muscles draw back into a deadly grin, called "cyanide rictus."[30] All these telling signs were absent in the Jonestown dead. Limbs were limp and relaxed, and the few visible faces showed no sign of distortion.[31] Instead, Dr. Mootoo found fresh needle marks at the back of the left shoulder blades of 80-90% of the victims.[32] Others had been shot or strangled. One survivor reported that those who resisted were forced by armed guards.[33] The gun that reportedly shot Jim Jones was lying nearly 200 feet from his body, not a likely suicide weapon.[34] As Chief Medical Examiner, Mootoo's testimony to the Guyanese grand jury investigating Jonestown led to their conclusion that all but three of the people were murdered by "persons unknown." Only two had committed suicide they said.[35] Several pictures show the gun-shot wounds on the bodies as well.[36] The U.S. Army spokesman, Lt. Col. Schuler, said, "No autopsies are needed. The cause of death is not an issue here." The forensic doctors who later did autopsies at Dover, Delaware, were never made aware of Dr. Mootoo's findings.[37] ... Guyanese troops, and police who had arrived with American Embassy official Richard Dwyer, also failed to defend Congressman Leo Ryan and others who came to Guyana with him when they were shot down in cold blood at the Port Kaituma airstrip, even though the troops were nearby with machine guns at the ready.[54] Although Temple member Larry Layton has been charged with the murders of Congressman Ryan, Temple defector Patricia Parks, and press reporters Greg Robinson, Don Harris and Bob Brown, he was not in a position to shoot them.[55] Blocked from boarding Ryan's twin engine Otter, he had entered another plane nearby. Once inside, he pulled out a gun and wounded two Temple followers, before being disarmed.[56] The others were clearly killed by armed men who descended from a tractor trailer at the scene, after opening fire. Witnesses described them as "zombies," walking mechanically, without emotion, and "looking through you, not at you" as they murdered.[57] Only certain people were killed, and the selection was clearly planned. Certain wounded people, like Ryan's aide Jackie Speiers, were not harmed further, but the killers made sure that Ryan and the newsmen were dead. In some cases they shot people, already wounded, directly in the head.[58] These gunmen were never finally identified, and may have been under Layton's command. They may not have been among the Jonestown dead.[59] ... The meticulous daily notes and drug records kept by Larry Schacht disappeared, but evidence did not.[174] The history of MK-ULTRA and its sister programs (MK-DELTA, ARTICHOKE, BLUEBIRD, etc.) records a combination of drugs, drug mixtures, electroshock and torture as methods for control. The desired results ranged from temporary and permanent amnesia, uninhibited confessions, and creation of second personalities, to programmed assassins and preconditioned suicidal urges. One goal was the ability to control mass populations, especially for cheap labor.[175] Dr. Delgado told Congress that he hoped for a future where a technology would control workers in the field and troops at war with electronic remote signals. He found it hard to understand why people would complain about electrodes implanted in their brains to make them "both happy and productive."[176] On the scene at Jonestown, Guyanese troops discovered a large cache of drugs, enough to drug the entire population of Georgetown, Guyana (well over 200,000)[177] for more than a year. According to survivors, these were being used regularly "to control" a population of only 1,100 people.[178] One footlocker contained 11,000 doses of thorazine, a dangerous tranquilizer. Drugs used in the testing for MK-ULTRA were found in abundance, including sodium pentathol (a truth serum), chloral hydrate (a hypnotic), demerol, thalium (confuses thinking), and many others.[179] Schacht had supplies of haliopareael and largatil as well, two other major tranquilizers.[180] The actual description of life at Jonestown is that of a tightly run concentration camp, complete with medical and psychiatric experimentation. The stresses and isolation of the victims is typical of sophisticated brainwashing techniques. The drugs and special tortures add an additional experimental aspect to the horror.[181] This more clearly explains the medical tags on the bodies, and why they had to be removed. It also suggests an additional motive for frustrating any chemical autopsies, since these drugs would have been found in the system of the dead. The story of Jonestown is that of a gruesome experiment, not a religious utopian society. On the eve of the massacre, Forbes Burnham was reportedly converted to "born again" Christianity by members of the Full Gospel Christian Businessman's Association, including Lionel Luckhoo, a Temple lawyer in Guyana.[182] This same group, based in California, also reportedly converted Guatemalan dictator Rios Montt prior to his massacres there and they were in touch with Jim Jones in Ukiah.[183] They currently conduct the White House prayer breakfasts for Mr. Reagan.[184] With Ryan on his way to Jonestown, the seal of secrecy was broken. In a desperate attempt to test their conditioning methods, the Jonestown elite apparently tried to implement a real suicide drill.[185] Clearly, it led to a revolt, and the majority of people fled, unaware that there were people waiting to catch them. .... The Links to U.S. Intelligence Agencies Our story so far has hinted at connections to U.S. intelligence, such as the long-term friendship of Jones and CIA associate Dan Mitrione. But the ties are much more direct when a full picture of the operation is revealed. To start with, the history of Forbes Burnham's rise to power in Guyana is fraught with the clear implication of a CIA coup d'état to oust troublesome independent leader Cheddi Jagan.[196] In addition, the press and other evidence indicated the presence of a CIA agent on the scene at the time of the massacre. This man, Richard Dwyer, was working as Deputy Chief of Mission for the U.S. Embassy in Guyana.[197] Identified in Who's Who in the CIA, he has been involved since 1959, and was last stationed in Martinique.[198] Present at the camp site and the airport strip, his accounts were used by the State Department to confirm the death of Leo Ryan. At the massacre, Jones said, "Get Dwyer out of here" just before the killings began.[199] Other Embassy personnel, who knew the situation at Jonestown well, were also connected to intelligence work. U.S. Ambassador John Burke, who served in the CIA with Dwyer in Thailand, was an Embassy official described by Philip Agee as working for the CIA since 1963. A Reagan appointee to the CIA, he is still employed by the Agency, usually on State Department assignments.[200] Burke tried to stop Ryan's investigation.[201] Also at the Embassy was Chief Consular officer Richard McCoy, described as "close to Jones," who worked for military intelligence and was "on loan" from the Defense Department at the time of the massacre.[202] According to a standard source, "The U.S. embassy in Georgetown housed the Georgetown CIA station. It now appears that the majority and perhaps all of the embassy officials were CIA officers operating under State Department covers . . ."[203] Dan Webber, who was sent to the site of the massacre the day after, was also named as CIA.[204] Not only did the State Department conceal all reports of violations at Jonestown from Congressman Leo Ryan, but the Embassy regularly provided Jones with copies of all congressional inquiries under the Freedom of Information Act.[205] Ryan had challenged the Agency's overseas operations before, as a member of the House Committee responsible for oversight on intelligence. He was an author of the controversial Hughes-Ryan Amendment that would have required CIA disclosure in advance to the congressional committees of all planned covert operations. The Amendment was defeated shortly after his death.[206] American intelligence agencies have a sordid history of cooperative relations with Nazi war criminals and international fascism.[207] In light of this, consider the curious ties of the family members of the top lieutenants to Jim Jones. The Layton family is one example. Dr. Laurence Layton was Chief of Chemical and Biological Warfare Research at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah, for many years, and later worked as Director of Missile and Satellite Development at the Navy Propellant Division, Indian Head, Maryland.[208] His wife, Lisa, had come from a rich German family. Her father, Hugo, had represented I.G. Farben as a stockbroker.[209] Her stories about hiding her Jewish past from her children for most of her life, and her parents' escape from a train heading for a Nazi concentration camp seem shallow, as do Dr. Layton's Quaker religious beliefs. The same family sent money to Jonestown regularly.[210] Their daughter, Debbie, met and married George Philip Blakey in an exclusive private school in England. Blakey's parents have extensive stock holdings in Solvay drugs, a division of the Nazi cartel I.G. Farben.[211] He also contributed financially.[212] Terri Buford's father, Admiral Charles T. Buford, worked with Navy Intelligence.[213] In addition, Blakey was reportedly running mercenaries from Jonestown to CIA-backed UNITA forces in Angola.[214] Maria Katsaris' father was a minister with the Greek Orthodox Church, a common conduit of CIA fundings, and Maris claimed she had proof he was CIA. She was shot in the head, and her death was ruled a suicide, but at one point Charles Beikman was charged with killing her.[215] On their return to the United States, the "official" survivors were represented by attorney Joseph Blatchford who had been named prior to that time in a scandal involving CIA infiltration of the Peace Corps.[216] Almost everywhere you look at Jonestown, U.S. intelligence and fascism rear their ugly heads. The connection of intelligence agencies to cults is nothing new. A simple but revealing example is the Unification Church, tied to both the Korean CIA (i.e., American CIA in Korea), and the international fascist network known as the World Anti-Communist League (WACL). The Moonies hosted WACL's first international conference.[217] What distinguished Jonestown was both the level of control and the openly sinister involvement. It was imperative that they cover their tracks.[218] Maria Katsaris sent Michael Prokes, Tim Carter, and another guard out at the last minute with $500,000 cash in a suitcase, and instructions for a drop point. Her note inside suggests the funds were destined for the Soviet Union.[219] Prokes later shot himself at a San Francisco press conference, where he claimed to be an FBI informant.[220] Others reported meeting with KGB agents and plans to move to Russia.[221] This disinformation was part of a "red smear" to be used if they had to abandon the operation. The Soviet Union had no interest in the money and even less in Jonestown. The cash was recovered by the Guyanese government.[222] Their hidden funding may include more intelligence links. A mysterious account in Panama, totaling nearly $5 million in the name of an "Associacion Pro Religiosa do San Pedro, S.A." was located.[223] This unknown Religious Association of St. Peter was probably one of the twelve phony companies set up by Archbishop Paul Marcinkus to hide the illegal investments of Vatican funds through the scandal-ridden Banco Ambrosiano.[224] A few days after the story broke about the accounts, the President of Panama, and most of the government resigned, Roberto Calvi of Banco Ambrosiano was murdered, and the Jonestown account disappeared from public scrutiny and court record.[225] The direct orders to cover up the cause of death came from the top levels of the American government. Zbigniew Brezezinsky delegated to Robert Pastor, and he in turn ordered Lt. Col. Gordon Sumner to strip the bodies of identity.[226] Pastor is now Deputy Director of the CIA.[227] One can only wonder how many others tied to the Jonestown operation were similarly promoted. The Strange Connection to the Murder of Martin Luther King One of the persistent problems in researching Jonestown is that it seems to lead to so many other criminal activities, each with its own complex history and cast of characters. Perhaps the most disturbing of these is the connection that appears repeatedly between the characters in the Jonestown story and the key people involved in the murder and investigating of Martin Luther King. The first clue to this link appeared in the personal histories of the members of the Ryan investigation team who were so selectively and deliberately killed at Port Kaituma. Don Harris, a veteran NBC reporter, had been the only network newsman on the scene to cover Martin Luther King's activity in Memphis at the time of King's assassination. He had interviewed key witnesses at the site. His coverage of the urban riots that followed won him an Emmy award.[228] Gregory Robinson, a "fearless" journalist from the San Francisco Examiner, had photographed the same riots in Washington, D.C. When he was approached for copies of the films by Justice Department officials, he threw the negatives into the Potomac river.[229] The role of Mark Lane, who served as attorney for Jim Jones, is even more clearly intertwined.[230] Lane had co-authored a book with Dick Gregory, claiming FBI complicity in the King murder.[231] He was hired as the attorney for James Earl Ray, accused assassin, when Ray testified before the House Select Committee on Assassinations about King.[232] Prior to this testimony, Ray was involved in an unusual escape plot at Brushy Mountain State Prison.[233] The prisoner who had helped engineer the escape plot was later inexplicably offered an early, parole by members of the Tennessee Governor's office. These officials, and Governor Blanton himself, were to come under close public scrutiny and face legal charges in regard to bribes taken to arrange illegal early pardons for prisoners.[234] One of the people living at Jonestown was ex-FBI agent Wesley Swearington, who at least publicly condemned the COINTELPRO operations and other abuses, based on stolen classified documents, at the Jonestown site. Lane had reportedly met with him there at least a year before the massacre. Terri Buford said the documents were passed on to Charles Garry. Lane used information from Swearingen in his thesis on the FBI and King's murder. Swearingen later served as a key witness in suits against the Justice Department brought by the Socialist Workers Party.[235] When Larry Flynt, the flamboyant publisher of Hustler magazine, offered a, $1 million reward leading to the capture and conviction of the John F. Kennedy killers, the long distance number listed to collect information and leads was being answered by Mark Lane and Wesley Swearingen.[236] With help from officials in Tennessee, Governor Blanton's office, Lane managed to get legal custody of a woman who had been incarcerated in the Tennessee state psychiatric system for nearly eight years.[237] This woman, Grace Walden Stephens, had been a witness in the King murder.[238] She was living at the time in Memphis in a rooming house across from the hotel when Martin Luther King was shot.[239] The official version of events had Ray located in the common bathroom of the rooming house, and claimed he used a rifle to murder King from that window.[240] Grace Stephens did, indeed, see a man run from the bathroom, past her door and down to the street below.[241] A rifle, later linked circumstantially to James Earl Ray, was found inside a bundle at the base of the rooming house stairs, and identified as the murder weapon.[242] But Grace, who saw the man clearly, refused to identify him as Ray when shown photographs by the FBI.[243] Her testimony was never introduced at the trial. The FBI relied, instead, on the word of her common law husband, Charles Stephens, who was drunk and unconscious at the time of the incident.[244] Her persistence in saying that it was not James Earl Ray was used at her mental competency hearings as evidence against her, and she disappeared into the psychiatric system.[245] Grace Walden Stephens took up residence in Memphis with Lane, her custodian, and Terri Buford, a key Temple member who had returned to the U.S. before the killings to live with Lane.[246] While arranging for her to testify before the Select Committee on Ray's behalf, Lane and Buford were plotting another fate for Grace Stephens. Notes from Buford to Jones, found in the aftermath of the killings, discussed arrangements with Lane to move Grace Stephens to Jonestown.[247] The problem that remained was lack of a passport, but Buford suggested either getting a passport on the black market, or using the passport of former Temple member Maxine Swaney.[248] Swaney, dead for nearly 2-1/2 years since her departure from the Ukiah camp, was in no position to argue and Jones apparently kept her passport with him.[249] Whether Grace ever arrived at Jonestown is unclear. Lane was also forced to leave Ray in the midst of testimony to the Select Committee when he got word that Ryan was planning to visit. Lane had attempted to discourage the trip earlier in a vaguely threatening letter.[250] Now he rushed to be sure he arrived with the group.[251] At the scene, he failed to warn Ryan and others, knowing that the sandwiches and other food might be drugged, but refrained from eating it himself.[252] Later, claiming that he and Charles Garry would write the official history of the "revolutionary suicide," Lane was allowed to leave the pieces of underwear to mark their way back to Georgetown.[253] If true, it seems an unlikely method if they were in any fear of pursuit. They had heard gunfire and screams back at the camp.[254] Lane was reportedly well aware of the forced drugging and suicide drills at Jonestown before Ryan arrived.[255] Another important figure in the murder of Martin Luther King was his mother, Alberta. A few weeks after the first public announcement by Coretta Scott King that she believed her husband's murder was part of a conspiracy, Mrs. Alberta King was brutally shot to death in Atlanta, while attending church services.[256] Anyone who had seen the physical wounds suffered by King might have been an adverse witness to the official version, since the Wound angles did not match the ballistic direction of a shot from the rooming house.[257] Her death also closely coincided with the reopening of the Tennessee state court review of Ray's conviction based on a guilty plea, required by a 6th Circuit decision.[258] The judge in that case reportedly refused to allow witnesses from beyond a 100-mile radius from the courtroom.[259] The man convicted of shooting King's mother was Marcus Wayne Chenault. His emotional affect following the murder was unusual. Grinning, he asked if he had hit anyone.[260] He had reportedly been dropped off at the church by people he knew in Ohio.[261] While at Ohio State University, he was part of a group known as "the Troop," run by a Black minister and gun collector who used the name Rabbi Emmanuel Israel. This man, described in the press as a "mentor" for Chenault, left the area immediately after the shooting.[262] In the same period, Rabbi Hill traveled from Ohio to Guyana and set up Hilltown, using similar aliases, and preaching the same message of a "black Hebrew elite."[263] Chenault confided to SCLC leaders that he was one of many killers who were working to assassinate a long list of Black leadership. The names he said were on this list coincided with similar "death lists" distributed by the KKK, and linked to the COINTELPRO operations in the 60s.[264] The real backgrounds and identities of Marcus Wayne Chenault and Rabbi Hill may never be discovered. But one thing is certain: Martin Luther King Would never had countenanced the preachings of Jim Jones, had he lived to hear them.[265] ... In the face of such horror, it may seem little compensation to know that a part of the truth has been unearthed. But for the families and some of the Survivors, the truth, however painful, is the only path to being relieved of the burden of their doubts. It's hard to believe that President Carter was calling on us at the time not to "overreact." The idea that a large community of Black people would not only stand by and be poisoned at the suggestion of Jim Jones, but would allow their children to be murdered first, is a monstrous lie, and a racist insult.[266] We now know that the most direct description of Jonestown is that it was a Black genocide plan. One Temple director, Joyce Shaw, described the Jonestown massacre as, "some kind of horrible government experiments, or some sort of sick racial thing, a plan like that of the Germans to exterminate Blacks."[267] If we refuse to look further into this nightmarish event, there will be more Jonestowns to come. They will move from Guyana to our own back yard." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2BrQkPPBlY

Really interesting stuff. This is my favorite part: "On 8th August, 1918, the Ohio State Journal reported that Prescott Bush had been awarded the "cross of the Legion of Honor, the Victoria Cross and the Distinguished Service Cross." ... Apparently, this information came from his mother Flora Bush. In fact, at this time, Bush had yet to see action on the Western Front. A month later the Ohio State Journal had to report that it was a victim of a hoax. His mother wrote to the paper and apologized for providing this false information. She claimed that she had been fooled by a letter she had received from her son that had been "written in a spirit of fun"." Sleazoid. A couple of points/questions... I thought Prescott was brought up of modest means and had married his way to social status. However, he went to Yale and was a Skull and Boner before marriage. So I guess he was plugged in from a young age? More important--Does anyone have any info tying Prescott to the attempted 1933/34 coup against FDR?

Just over two weeks later. Jeez...

Thanks Peter. I've actually been at it since the 2000 coup when the fascists didn't even bother to pretend it was a democracy. But 911 was just as blatant. I was friggen astounded that anyone bought it and failed to see the Reichstag burning in Manhattan. Well, at that point it also became obvious why the goosesteppers want to insure a bad education for one and all, especially in history. Ok then. Let's all search the internet for The Rebel material. And ebay. If anyone finds stuff please share. Yeah, I think the CIA was all over Jonestown. Gee, wouldn't a socialist commune make the US look bad, esp if they relocated to Russia as planned? But I can't find a decent book on it. I'm not even that impressed with Mark Lane's book, though I do find his premise that Jones was bonkers by that time and had everyone murdered believable. And then there's some other book on it, don't recall the title, that totally trashes Lane. Forget that one. But Leo Ryan, arch enemy of the CIA, murdered in Guyana after the state department repeatedly assured him it was safe to go there? Puh-leeze. HEY! Look what I just found! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jonestown_Carnage The Jonestown Carnage: a CIA Crime Godamn right. Good lord that's porn!!! Thx for the link. I'd sure love to read the articles. Not at $30 a pop though.

Peter! Thank you! ... Ok, I can't stand it. I wanna see the contents. Peter, I'd be happy to pay for all expenses if there is any way you could get all the magazines, cover and contents, scanned for us. I understand if it's not feasible for you though...

Wow, this is a helluvan article Peter. It ties together so much. Thank you! Ok, here's a quickie messy timeline of 70's-80's Flynt era events as I understand them (liberally plagiarizing anyone and everyone): Early 70’s--The Realist magazine along with another hard hitting article linking the Symbionese Liberation Army to government/private mind control operations/MK Ultra. Lyndon Larouche's researchers also published a lot of frightening stuff in this early '70s period about these synthetic radical groups that very much coincides with Mae's research. Imagine who put up the significant amount of money for these articles to be researched and written by Mae and published in The Realist? John Lennon. 1972 to 1974--Watergate November, 1975--1970's and the 1980's--Congressman Larry McDonald was the one who spearheaded the efforts against the Bush version of the New World Order. In 1976 he wrote the introduction to the "Rockefeller File", a book exposing the Rockefeller' financial holdings and secret intentions. The book supposedly revealed that the Rockefeller had as many as two hundred trusts and foundation type organizations, and that the actual number of such foundations controlled by the family might well number into the thousands. Such control IS possible because Rockefeller banks, such as Chase Manhattan, have become the trustees for many other U.S. foundations as well; possessing the right to invest and to vote the capital and common stock of these institutions--through the trust department of the bank. McDonald did everything in his power to warn the American public. However, as usual, the attempt was to no avail. He stated unequivocally, that the Rockefeller intended to control "--first our own country, and then the world!" He went on to state. "Do I mean conspiracy? Yes, yes I do. I am convinced there is a plot, national and international." McDonald's warning was written on legal congressional letterhead and was dated November, 1975. During the ensuing years, frustrated by the media's refusal to report his findings, he began, like others, to take his message to the streets by speaking out against these forces publicly to anyone who would listen to him. 1978--The CIA was in a nervous state in 1978 because of the House Select Committee's investigations; all the spooks needed was some minor character in the conspiracy to surface and take Larry Flynt’s million dollar bait. February 17, 1978--Enquirer had a large story about a Flynt press conference announcing his search for absolution to the JFK assassination. This article featured a photo of Flynt standing next to Robert Groden. March 6, 1978—Larry Flynt and attorney shot, Flynt paralyzed November 18, 1978--Leo Joseph Ryan, Jr., US Representative killed in Guyana shortly before the Jonestown Massacre. Famous for vocal criticism of the judicial excess of the CIA, authoring the Hughes-Ryan Amendment, which would have required extensive CIA notification of Congress about planned covert operations. Shortly after his death, the Amendment was quietly dropped. Ryan was also an early critic of L. Ron Hubbard and his Scientology movement and of the Unification Church of Sun Myung Moon. Note: Mark Lane barely escaped death in Guyana. Dec 8, 1980—Peace activist and truth funder John Lennon murdered before war-profiteers Bush/Reagan were inaugurated. (Oh, happy anniversary John…) Early 80’s--Larry Flynt's Hustler magazine began sporting hard hitting and serious investigative anti-conspiracy journalism in its pages. Larry Flynt came into orbit with researcher Mae Brussell after she contacted him and explained who the personnel involved in the failed assassination attempt against him were which put Flynt permanently in a wheelchair. 1983, Flynt offered Brussell her own magazine, The Rebel, so she could get exposure outside of Hustler Nov 22/83--The Rebel debuted. Flynt was essentially exposing the Iran Contra players three years before such a phrase existed and the ties of the present White House to the global fascist cartels and the victors and plotters of the Kennedy assassination. The Reagan-Bush Whitehouse team sized Flynt up as a real threat and so trusty assets G Gordon Liddy and Gordon Novel dispatched themselves upon Larry's empire. How did Novel get an in with Flynt? Allegedly by supplying him with covertly taken photographs of Republican congressman Larry MacDonald having sex with a woman other than his wife. Flynt published them in Hustler along with a lewd variation on "Old MacDonald Had A Farm." Now, back to Gordon Novel and G Gordon Liddy. Could you imagine that Flynt has these two hanging out with him at his house and eating with him while working with Mae Brussell who had been exposing Liddy and Novel for years as dangerous operatives on behalf of the military industrial complex she and Flynt were hoping to resist? Mae repeatedly warned Flynt to "get these people out of your house." Flynt, a self-made man, thought he could handle them. After it was all over he admitted: "Mae, you were right, I never should have let these guys in." After Liddy and Novel departed, Larry Flynt was almost vegetable, his wife dead from AIDS, and Hustler purged of its investigative articles and writing team and Rebel eliminated from existence altogether. August 31, 1983—Larry McDonald's courageous efforts came to an abrupt end when he was killed aboard the Korean Airliner 007 flight, which "accidentally" strayed over Soviet airspace and was "accidentally" shot down. He was on his way to the World Anti-Communist League meeting in South Korea, Senator Jesse Helms and 34 others in the delegation took one flight to the meeting, Larry was placed all alone on another flight: KAL 007, which was blown up in mid air when it intentionally entered Soviet airspace for two and a half hours as the pilot was instructed to do and was subsequently blown up. The pilot's wife doubled his life insurance policy just before the flight after he warned her that he was doing a risky flight. " By early '84, Rebel was no more.--Mae said they'd given Flynt painkillers that xxxxed his judgement up and made him want to jump from an airplane to his death to protest the New York Times' refusal to let him buy a full page carrying his view of the KAL 007 disaster. Advertisers naturally wouldn't touch Rebel. (Andy, I LOVE the operation of the bold function since the upgrade. Thank you! So much easier.)

Shane, If you're still around... I know you're still investigating the presence of the three spooks in the Ambassador. Given that many people believe there are pictures of Morales in Dealey Plaza on Nov 22, '63, do you have plans to ask your experts if the photos of the Morales look-alike in Dealey Plaza are in fact him? http://www.jfkresearch.com/eaglesham/page5.jpg

Ah, thank you John. All Flynt/JFK related material welcome.

Whatever else anyone thinks of Flynt for his Hustler magazine, he was dedicated as few others to getting the truth on JFK out and knew exactly what kind of monster was behind it...and Terry is right, he was shot to shut him down on that...if not to try to kill him. He published four issues [have two copies of each!] of a magazine with nothing but hard-hitting progressive investigative journalism [Mae Brussel, Penn Jones and others!]. It as called Rebel Magazine and it was GREAT!.....and was SHUT DOWN by the National Security Monster because it was on target. Larry was shot for the the magazine and his offer of $1,000,000 to solve the crime and more money behind him for other such. While I don't like sexist rags like Hustler, I just have zero issue with that type of free enterprise: porn, prostitution, etc. I don't see anything sexest about it as long as every involved is a willing adult. Thank you for the link Peter. That's excellent. I was hoping to see some of that info.

Oh? Do tell... Sounds like an area to look into. Thanks Ron.

*************************************************** Mr. Flynt is an acquaintance of mine. I gave him my Prouty CD's, and he gave me his book, and the movie. I see him and his wonderful wife from time to time, and we try to keep in touch. I have the highest respect for him, and for what he's tried to do for the assassination investigation. I've told him about this forum, and the others I've been involved with. I was supposed to have e-mailed him the link to this forum, but became so busy over the last four months that I might have forgotten. I'll re-check and send it again, if that's the case. Wow. I genuflect in your, and his, general direction. Mr. Flynt is just the most honest, principled, decent man imaginable. I've admired him forever, and now that I know about his JFK work--and what was taken from him due to it--I consider him a true hero. I don't want to drag him thru a painful ordeal all over again, or subject him to a subject he'd prefer to be done with, or make him vulnerable to certain sleazebag trash-talkin' "ASSets," but he'd sure be an honored presence here IMO. Damn, if nothing else please pass along my regards, if the chance arises Terry. I can't believe how many movies Oliver Stone has made trying to tell us what's what: JFK, Nixon, The People vs Larry Flynt... Uh, WTF's up with the 911 movie? Seems like he went party line on that.

Bruce Campbell Adamson is a member of this forum. Going by his posts I can understand why Larry Flynt did not publish his article. Ah, and I was considering getting his book on HL Hunt--a particular area of interest to me... Thanks for the warning.

Has anyone seen "The People vs Larry Flynt" -- another Oliver Stone (ahem) movie? From a review on some right wing site: "Some of the usual suspects were involved with this project. Harrelson has the exploitative "Natural Born Killers" and "Money Train" to his (dis)credit, not to mention several years' worth of obnoxious politicking, And one of the producers is Oliver Stone, who comes through with yet another Stone conspiracy theory: After Flynt is shot in a small Georgia town where he's on trial, one of his flunkies speculates that the gunman was CIA, assigned to rub out Flynt because Hustler offered a $1 million reward for JFK's real killers." http://www.mediaresearch.org/BozellColumns...col19970107.asp Also an interesting ebay (and a very interesting seller, "ciajfk.com"): "LARRY FLYNT KILLS JFK ASSASSINATION ARTICLE, AFTER OFFERING $1,000,000 REWARD. "In 1997 Larry Flynt hired Bruce Campbell Adamson to write a 6,000 word JFK assassination article, but killed the story. This is the story! The author has also added exhibits to the article to let the public become the judge to decide if there is enough proof to show a conspirac In fact the author will incorporate material which ties the CIA to Larry Flynt about the time he was shot. Coincidence or conspiracy? seems to be the question. This is the article that Larry Flynt killed while he still offers a $1,000,000 reward for information leading to exposing who was behind the JFK assassination." http://cgi.ebay.com/Larry-Flynt-Kills-JFK-...bayphotohosting

Holy cow Terry, I never knew about that link. Thank you for the tip. http://www.umsl.edu/~skthoma/plword3.htm "LARRY FLYNT AND JFK by a Steamshovel correspondent In June 1997, while attending the COPA (Coalition of Political Assassinations) conference at Georgetown University in Washington, DC, a conference attendee, upon learning I was from Cincinnati, asked if I remembered a full page ad published by porn king Larry Flynt some twenty years ago in which he offered a million dollars for information about the 1963- assassination, of President John F. Kennedy. Larry Flynt had received considerable publicity some months earlier with the release of the movie, The People Against Larry Flynt. The movie had been acclaimed by many critics for its artistic merit as well as the historic description of a battle for the First Amendment. I told the conference attendee that I would look into the matter upon return to Cincinnati. The press, of personal business caused me to overlook the matter until October 1997 when Larry Flynt, eager to take on the Cincinnati establishment again, opened a shiny new Hustler store in the heart of the Queen City's downtown. The media attention was enormous and police had to redirect traffic around the new Hustler store as I arrived and got in line with the local porn fans to get copies of Hustlers signed by Flynt. I opened the conversation with, "Larry, I am the only Cincinnatian who was in Judge Lance Ito's courtroom in Los Angeles in 1992 when Charlie Keating was sentenced to ten years." Larry put down his autograph pen, leaned back in- his, wheel chair and laughed heartily (Keating and prosecutor Simon Leis, had pursued Flynt relentlessly back in the '70s which produced a legal battle described so colorfully in the movie). After a few more conversational words I said: "Larry, the real reason I am here is to ask if you remember a full page ad run back in the '70s offering a million dollars for information on the JFK murder." With that, the big smile vanished and he looked at the floor and muttered: "Yeah, and I got shot right afterwards." The next week, I went back to the Hustler store to ask Jimmy Flynt, Larry's brother and permanent manager, the date of the shooting. Jimmy responded instantly: "March 6, 1978." I then began a review of both Cincinnati newspapers, the morning Enquirer and the afternoon Post, for the two months preceding the shooting. The February 17, 1978 Enquirer had a large story about a Flynt press conference announcing his search for absolution to the JFK assassination. This article featured a photo of Flynt standing next to Ruth Carter Stapleton (President Carter' sister) and now prominent researcher Robert Groden. Left: Larry Flynt, Ruth Carter Stapleton and Robert Groden. After reviewing the newspapers back to January 1, 1978, I had not found a copy of the million dollar ad. So I returned to the Hustler store to seek Jimmy Flynt's assistance. Jimmy was amused and interested in the folder of clippings I had collected. I then asked, "Jimmy, can you give me a more exact date of the JFK ad?" His pleasant demeanor disappeared as he barked testily, "Look, I tried to talk Larry out of that project back in 1978 ... the man's dead, he should have left the whole thing alone!" He then stalked off leaving me open mouthed. Conclusion: In the years after the 1978 shooting of Larry Flynt, rumors floated around Cincinnati that his local anti porn persecutors were behind the shooting. The suspected shooter was a "lone nut" of classic vintage. It is clearly obvious, however, that Larry and Jimmy Flynt believed that the shooting was directly caused by the porn king's foray into the growing field of people investigating that infamous day in Dallas. The CIA was in a nervous state in 1978 because of the House Select Committee's investigations; all the spooks needed was some minor character in the conspiracy to surface and take the million dollar bait. A researcher at the 1999 Dallas COPA meeting perhaps summarized the Flynt episode most succinctly: "Have you ever heard of a pornographer being shot because he was in the porn business?""

Speaking of the great Larry Flynt, his site has the best description of the 1933 coup attempt that I've seen: http://www.larryflynt.com/notebook.php?id=196 "Coup D'Etat In America How the ruling class plotted to overthrow FDR. By Monique Raphel High Some people say that President George W. Bush is obviously the Big Business President; that Bush is little more than Vice President Dick Cheney’s sock puppet; that every time Bush makes a policy statement, it’s actually Cheney, with his hand shoulder-deep up Bush’s ass, doing the talking; that Cheney is the real Evil Emperor of the U.S., quietly taking care of business for big oil (Halliburton, his old employer), big construction (Kellogg Brown and Root, the outfit that’s mostly rebuilding Iraq, owned by Halliburton) and big everything else. Ridiculous? Paranoid? Couldn’t happen here? In fact, it almost did. In 1934 the United States was struggling through the depths of the Great Depression like a stumbling, outclassed heavyweight in the late rounds of a losing fight. Fifteen million people were out of work. The national income was less than half what it had been before the Depression. Five thousand banks had failed, taking 9 million savings accounts with them. Army Chief of Staff Douglas MacArthur and his subordinates—Majors George S. Patton and Dwight D. Eisenhower—had routed the Bonus Army out of Washington. Newsreel-watchers were treated to the detestable spectacle of U.S. troops turning their weapons on American veterans. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s New Deal had made some progress in alleviating the nation’s suffering, but the Democrat’s daring programs were beginning to stall. Many people were searching for more radical solutions to America’s economic problems. Some thought that the Soviet Union had the right idea; Communist Party membership in the U.S. was at an all-time high. Others wanted absolutely nothing to do with the Communists or their fellow travelers. These included some of the country’s richest and most powerful citizens, who began looking toward Europe, where Hitler was putting the Germans back to work (building tanks and dive-bombers, it turned out), and Mussolini was making Italy’s trains run on time. Anybody who could convince the Italians to stop arguing and work together efficiently had to have something on the ball, right? The rich were particularly dissatisfied with President Roosevelt. Many viewed him as a “traitor to his class”—the inherited-wealth class. They felt especially threatened by three of FDR’s reforms. First, the Securities Acts of 1933 and 1934 had set controls on such time-honored activities as insider trading and stock manipulation. As his first SEC chairman, FDR picked Joseph P. Kennedy, father of future President John F. Kennedy. “I’ll set a thief to catch a thief,” the President joked. It was no joke to wealthy banking families like the Morgans, whose brokerage interests were now being regulated. Second, there were rumors that the Senate was going to investigate arms manufacturers and their role in inducing the country to enter World War I. This was unwelcome news to Delaware’s Du Pont family, at the time the world’s leading makers of armaments. Third, almost immediately on taking office in 1933, Roosevelt had removed the U.S. from the gold standard. “Hard” (that is, gold-backed) money was what all right-thinking people wanted us to have. The moneyed interests feared that “soft” money would lead to rampant inflation. Inflation is a good thing if you owe money to a bank, but a bad thing if you own one. In 1933 a number of wealthy anti-New Dealers decided that it would be a good idea if a paramilitary force of disgruntled vets and jobless men could either force the President out of office or compel him to accept certain fundamental changes in government. In other words, they began plotting a coup against FDR. Of course, any paramilitary force has to have a leader, and the plotters had one in mind. Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler was an oddball in many respects. He was a Quaker—an unusual religious affiliation for a general. Instead of attending a service academy, he’d come up from the enlisted ranks. He’d won the Medal of Honor twice. He was a vocal supporter of the Bonus Army. He’d commanded Marines in Haiti, China, Nicaragua and Cuba. In 1935 he would write a book titled War Is a Racket. That same year, he was to say in an interview with the Socialist newspaper Common Sense: “I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. … In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested. … Looking back on it, I felt I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three city districts. We Marines operated on three continents.” But in 1933 Butler hadn’t yet written his book or publicly expressed these opinions. He was beloved of his troops and one of the few career officers to openly champion the Bonus Army. He was just the sort of leader whom men would follow into battle. The plotters hoped that they’d follow him into insurrection. Two members of the American Legion—Gerald C. MacGuire and Bill Doyle—paid a visit to Butler. MacGuire, a bond salesman for a Morgan firm, invited the general to address a Legion convention. They hoped that the members would rally to Butler and help them oust the veterans group’s current slate of leaders. Butler declined, but the pair returned. This time they brought a bank book showing over $100,000 in deposits (an astronomical sum in 1933) and a prepared speech they wanted him to give. Said to have been written by former Presidential candidate John W. Davis, the speech called for the convention to pass a resolution demanding America’s return to the gold standard. Butler declined again, but his suspicions were aroused. He kept MacGuire coming back by asking him questions. Who was he really working for? Who was financing his group? Butler might consider throwing in with them, but only if he could meet the head man directly. After a period of hemming and hawing, MacGuire admitted that two of his organization’s top men were Singer sewing machine heir Robert Sterling Clark (also affiliated with Sun Oil) and brokerage house owner Grayson M.P. Murphy, a director of Guaranty Trust (a bank owned by Morgan), who also had interests in Goodyear, Bethlehem Steel and Anaconda Copper. Clark visited Butler and hinted that his organization just might be persuaded to pay off Butler’s mortgage. At another meeting, MacGuire whipped out his wallet, pulled out 18 thousand-dollar bills and told the general that he wanted to pay for his help. Finally, MacGuire told Butler what was really on his group’s mind. It wanted Butler to lead an insurrectionist army of 500,000 veterans in a march on Washington. President Roosevelt would be forced to resign, or perhaps just be kept on as a figurehead. FDR would have to appoint a “Secretary of General Affairs,” with broad general authority, who would (of course) run things on behalf of the interests who bankrolled the coup. The Vice President and the Secretary of State (at that time the third person in the Presidential succession) would resign, leaving the Secretary of General Affairs in charge should anything, ah, happen to the President. Butler at first didn’t believe that the plot was serious, but MacGuire impressed him with some accurate predictions about White House personnel changes. He also predicted the public announcement of a new group that would support the coup by issuing anti-FDR propaganda. A few weeks later Butler read of the formation of the American Liberty League, the most vocal and best-financed of the anti-New Deal groups. The League was backed by the Du Ponts and headed by John J. Raskob (of General Motors), but it also attracted former Democratic Presidential candidates John W. Davis (1924) and Al Smith (1928) and onetime Democratic National Committee Chairman Jouett Shouse. At this point Butler proved just how badly MacGuire and his friends had misjudged their man. Perhaps they’d forgotten that the Marine Corps’ motto, Semper Fidelis, means “always faithful” and not “Where’s mine?” Butler went to some friends in Congress and the media, most prominently reporter Paul Comly French of the Philadelphia Record, and denounced the plot. Soon, the House Committee to Investigate Un-American Activities agreed to give him a hearing. During the hearing Butler testified that Robert Sterling Clark had told him that “the organization” considered him “too radical” to lead the coup and that it preferred two other candidates—one of whom was Douglas MacArthur. Reporter French testified that MacGuire had told him that the plotters could raise a million dollars from Morgan or the National City Bank and that arms could be obtained from the Remington Arms Company, largely owned by the Du Ponts. According to French, MacGuire had told him not to worry, that “the poor suckers will go for it.” MacGuire testified that there was no plot, that he was merely a member of a bring-back-the-gold-standard lobbying group called the Committee for Sound Dollar and Sound Currency Inc. He could not, however, explain away the large sums of money deposited in several of his accounts. Clark had sent MacGuire on a tour of France, Germany and Italy to study economic conditions, said MacGuire. But evidence showed that while abroad, he had met in all three countries with veterans who belonged to paramilitary fascist groups, such as Italy’s Blackshirts and France’s Croix de Feu (“Cross of Fire”). An independent witness, Veterans of Foreign Wars Commander James Van Zandt, corroborated Butler’s story and said that he, too, had been approached to lead an insurrectionist army. Surprisingly, the House committee did not call such alleged coconspirators as Morgan banker and Liberty League treasurer Grayson Murphy, General Hugh Johnson (the head of the National Recovery Administration), former New York Governor Al Smith of the Liberty League and General MacArthur. The committee’s final report read: “This committee received evidence from Maj. Gen. Smedley D. Butler (retired), twice decorated by the Congress of the United States. He testified before the committee as to conversations with one Gerald C. MacGuire in which the latter is alleged to have suggested the formation of a fascist army under the leadership of General Butler. “MacGuire denied these allegations under oath, but your committee was able to verify all the pertinent statements made by General Butler, with the exception of the direct statement suggesting the creation of the organization. This, however, was corroborated in the correspondence of MacGuire with his principal, Robert Sterling Clark, of New York City, while MacGuire was abroad studying the various forms of veterans’ organizations of fascist character.” The committee had concluded that Smedley Butler was right, that there was indeed a Big Business, fascist-style putsch planned for the United States. The truly astonishing part of the story is what happened next. Nothing. The New York Times ran two paragraphs on page five. Time’s story was titled “Plot Without Plotters.” The Justice Department prosecuted no one at all, not even MacGuire, who had obviously perjured himself. When reporters asked, “Why?” the Justice Department said only that it had no plans to bring any prosecutions “at the moment.” Less than a month after the report’s release, “the moment” stretched out to forever when Gerald MacGuire, the only man who could testify about the plotters’ instructions to him to recruit Butler, died at 37 from complications of pneumonia. Banker Grayson Murphy, the Liberty League treasurer, died soon after. The plot against FDR started as a minor story, then became a footnote to history, and has by now all but disappeared. Why wasn’t this story the Watergate of 1934? No one had an adequate explanation then. Roosevelt aide Harold Ickes thought the answer might be found in the near-monopoly concentration of newspaper ownership among major chains—sort of the opposite of today’s “liberal media conspiracy” argument. Seventy years later the issue is even murkier. What seems certain is that there was a plot to replace a popularly elected President with a sock puppet controlled by the hand of Big Business, and that it was exposed by a patriotic Marine general who believed that duty called him to protect the Constitution, not to subvert it. You might choose to read this story as having a moral to be applied to current politics—except that today, we can’t seem to find a Smedley D. Butler."

(I still haven't read the Great Zapruder Film Hoax, so this may be common knowledge. I'm in the remedial class of JFK research.) From "The Man Who Knew Too Much," page 374, about the Zapruder film: "Robert Groden, who worked for almost nine years studying a bootleg copy he had managed to obtain, discovered that in fact there were ten missing or damaged frames in the film. Certain key moments, which might have proven the existence of more than three shots, had been spliced out. But a pristine copy of the Zapruder film may still exist. In 1992, Paul Rothermel, Jr., a former chief aide to Dallas oil billionaire H.L. Hunt, told me an incredible story. Rothermel said he was dispatched by the Hunt family, in the late afternoon following the assassination, "with a substantial amount of money, to buy the original. I got the first copy, as far as I know." "Before Time-Life negotiated for theirs?" I asked. "Yeah," Rothermel said. "Why?" I persisted. "Why did the Hunts so badly want this film?" "Well," Rothermel replied, "it was pretty hard to believe that, with as little moxie as Oswald had, he did it all by himself. There was a lot of speculation about how all this happened, who was really behind it. I think certain people wanted to find out who did it."" It then goes on to describe the vehemence of Hunt's hatred for President Kennedy, and his determination to help his pal "Lyndon."

Right on, Charlie Black! Now now, let's be fair. I give RB credit for being more strategic. His goal is more likely to dilute the real threads with front page clutter, and waste people's time responding to blatant bullxxxx.

I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-shooting at a paper target is one thing-shooting at another human is another matter-I've done it and its neither easy or without a cost. www.stoppingpower.net I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was- I'm always amused when people claim that "Sniper" training is required in order to hit an extremely slow moving target at a range of 68 yards (204 feet) or less. Most 12 to 13 year old's down here in S. Mississippi can accomplish that, and do, each time that dear season opens. P.S. It cost LHO his life! P.P.S. Shortest distance which LHO qualilfied at in the USMC was 200 yards, of which he shot in the UPPER EXPERT range of qualification. With a bolt action rifle. Let's not leave that part out Thomas. Even us non-snipers know that's significant in slowing down a shooter.