Duane Daman
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Posts posted by Duane Daman
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Duane, I am 'educating' . The poll is a tool. Now to educate.....
Boy, did you educate!
I misspoke when I said there were more conspiracy debunkers than conspiracy believers on this forum .. The word "debunkers" implies that the majority of the members here actually debunk the conspiracy evidence, instead of just pretend to.. and the world "believers" of course implies that it's just belief, and not facts, that prove certain conspiracies.
So I will correct myself and use the word "deniers" and "provers" instead of debunkers and believers.
As in: the conspiracy deniers outnumber the conspiracy provers on this forum... The JFK discussions excluded, as I do believe there are more members on this forum who do not agree with the official version of the assassination, than do.
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Steve.. You do know that conspiracy debunkers outnumber conspiracy believers on this forum, don't you?
"Truthers" has been turned into a dirty word by many of the members here.
I'm sure your poll will confirm that fact, if it hasn't already.
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"911 In Plane Site
What “In Plane Site” accomplishes that no other video expose’ on September 11th has to date, is it exposes the viewer to a barrage of news clips from a majority of the mainstream news outlets. The official story of that day was told on live TV by reporters, policemen, firefighters, and other on-the-scene eyewitnesses, however, that footage was shown only once on live television broadcasts in the first hours of the attacks and then… it was never repeated. The stories changed, information was enigmatically omitted, and what can only be described as officially prescribed propaganda took the place of indisputable reality.
If you still believe that terrorists with box cutters carried out 9/11, then you may have nothing to worry about, but the next time you hear on your local news station that the terrorist threat level has just been elevated, remember the words of Dave von Kleist as he closes this video presentation. “Where is your line in the sand?”
http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/the-911-files/911-in-plane-site.html
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I can't believe you're still posting this type of obvious disinformation when Siverstein opened his despicable mouth and inserted his despicable foot in it.. Pull it means to intentionally demolish the building.. It doesn't mean to pull people ( ncluding frefighers) out of a building.
PS you still haven't answered the following- Do you think the FDNY demolished 7?
No, the criminal Bush gang did .. Silverstein being one of them.
Speaking of the despicable Silverstein, check out why he wasn't at work that day.
Can anyone say .. LYING SLIMEBALL ???
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"Pull it" means pull the building, not "pull the firefighters out of the building", which was Silverstein's silly excuse after the fact... The firefighters were already out of building when he told them to pull it.
Silverstein was not the only 911 conspirator to open his stupid mouth and insert his big foot .. Bush and Rumsfeld also gave the game away with a few of their stupid statements.
911 was an obvious inside job .. I can't believe people like you are still pretending it wasn't.
Get back to us when you have evidence pull can mean explosive demolition.
Do you think the FDNY demolished 7?
You are aware that various FDNY personnel has discussed the order to pull firefighters from the vicinity of the building and seeing signs that it was unstable hours before it came down.
It doesn't get any clearer than this.
Yes, "pull it" means to pull a building, as in; demolish it.. Which is exactly what Silverstein ordered and explained.
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The Disclosure Project
http://www.ufocasebook.com/disclosureproject.html
The text on this site is not in English but the video lectures are and they are well worth listening to.
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The truth of UFOs and the alien presense on Earth is just another US government cover up.
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"Pull it" means pull the building, not "pull the firefighters out of the building", which was Silverstein's silly excuse after the fact... The firefighters were already out of building when he told them to pull it.
Silverstein was not the only 911 conspirator to open his stupid mouth and insert his big foot .. Bush and Rumsfeld also gave the game away with a few of their stupid statements.
911 was an obvious inside job .. I can't believe people like you are still pretending it wasn't.
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The 911 cover up continues.
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Wow I never thought we would have a Comet Elenin thread on the EF.....I thought I had to get my tin foil hat and head for the fringe forums !
Does this mean you don't believe the "real" reason NASA hasn't "returned" humans to the Moon in over 40 years is because aliens live there? ..
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Gordon Duff and Veterans Times are not reliable sources for anything. They have an agenda and it ain't the truth.
That sounds like your opinion, and you're entitled to it .. but where is the proof that the Veteran Times has "an agenda and it ain't the truth"? .. Do they perhaps disagree with your opinion about 911 also?
If you believe UBL killed in 2002 then how do you account for the video and audio recordings of him ranting and raving over the years?Videos can be paraded out by the CIA long after someone is dead, with the pretense that they were recently made.. There's also a strong possibility that boogeyman bin Laden had about as many decoys and body doubles as Michael Jackson.
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No matter what might have been corrected, the Chinook continues to be one of the most dangerous means of transportation.
"The Army Chinook helicopter, like the one shot down Aug. 6 in Afghanistan killing all 38 onboard, is the U.S. chopper most susceptible to Taliban ground fire, according to statistics compiled by a former aviator.
Experts say the crash rate shows two principal facts: The lumbering CH-47 Chinook is not designed to fly into the teeth of a firefight to deliver troops and supplies, and the Taliban is somewhat skilled in using crude weapons to hit a big target like the 50,000-pound chopper."
"No one in their right mind sends a Chinook, or any other helicopter, into a place where they know they're going to get shot at," the Army pilot said.
Getting back to what matters, before the distractions of Private Colby...
Navy Seal Team 6 – The Cover-up Continues
"The chances of this story being true is almost nil. The chances of this being a staged cover-up is over 80%. We believe these people were murdered to silence them. This is why.
Some Possibly Killed in Abbottabad Helicopter Crash Months Before
By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor – Veteran Times
We have solid information on two areas:
1.Osama bin Laden died in 2001 as an active CIA employee and his body was recovered in Afghanistan and taken to “the sand box.” We were told it was frozen. We have so much verification from this, CIA, ISI, US military and top officials. I have a direct confirmation from Bin Laden’s CIA handler who I grilled mercilessly on this.
2.The Abbottabad operation involved numerous American deaths, witnessed, bodies all over, a helicopter crash. (suppressed translated TV interview below) These bodies were recovered by land vehicle from Islamabad and there was NO “successful” bin Laden operation of any kind. There was and has been a CIA safe house in Abbotabad where terror suspects were stored for years.
This gave the US several areas of severe vulnerability. Generally, Navy Seals are the best people in the world at keeping their mouths shut, these are real team players, as the term “Seal Team” belies.
We at VT were informed that the bin Laden operation was staged at this time, a theatrical farce, to cover the exit of Secretary Gates, the move by former CIA Director Leon Panetta into the DOD as Secretary of Defense and to stem any heroic claims by new CIA Director Petraeus of killing the long dead Osama bin Laden, the long frozen CIA operative."
http://askmarion.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/navy-seal-team-6-the-cover-up-continues/
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Got a citation for that Lt. Col. Daman?
That's Col. Daman, Private Colby!
Chinook computer was 'positively dangerous' say newly-disclosed MoD documents
Tony Collins
Monday 04 January 2010 07:56
A computer flaw in the type of Chinook helicopter that crashed on the Mull of Kintyre, killing all 29 on board, was known to be "positively dangerous", according to military documents that have not been published until today.
The RAF blamed the two pilots, Flight Lieutenants Rick Cook and Jonathan Tapper, for the crash of Chinook ZD576 on 2 June 1994, which killed 25 senior police and intelligence officers.
But an RAF Board of Inquiry was unable to establish why the crash happened. It did not rule out problems with the Chinook Mk2's innovative, software-controlled "Fadec" fuel control system as a contributory factor in the crash.
Now internal Ministry of Defence documents, which have been seen by the BBC and Computer Weekly, show that the RAF hierarchy approved the Chinook Mk2 as airworthy while knowing - and without remedying - a dangerous flaw in the helicopter's "Fadec" fuel control system.
Computer Weekly has already reported on problems with the Fadec system in a 140-page report which we published in 1999. But the internal MoD documents that are now disclosed contain the most serious internal criticism yet of the Fadec.
The criticism is contained in a memo written in September 1993 - nine months before the crash on the Mull of Kintyre - by the Superintendent of Engineering Systems at an MoD establishment at Boscombe Down, Salisbury.
IT experts at Boscombe Down were tasked with checking the Chinook's Mk2's Fadec software as part of the tests to see whether the helicopter was airworthy. After an assessment of the Fadec software the Superintendent of Engineering Systems said that the density of deficiencies was so high that the software was unintelligible.
He said of the anomalies in both the software code and documentation: "One of these, the reliance on an undocumented and unproved feature of the processor, is considered positively dangerous".
He added that the software "falls significantly short of the standard required and expected for a safety-critical system No assurance can be given concerning the fidelity of the software and hence the pilot's control of the engine (s) through Fadec cannot be assured".
The Superintendent's memo also said that a hazard analysis by Boeing, the Chinook's manufacturer, had categorised the Fadec software as "safety-critical" because "any malfunctions or design errors could have catastrophic effects".
More here.
The Army Chinook helicopter, like the one shot down Aug. 6 in Afghanistan killing all 38 onboard, is the U.S. chopper most susceptible to Taliban ground fire, according to statistics compiled by a former aviator.
Experts say the crash rate shows two principal facts: The lumbering CH-47 Chinook is not designed to fly into the teeth of a firefight to deliver troops and supplies, and the Taliban is somewhat skilled in using crude weapons to hit a big target like the 50,000-pound chopper.
People associated with special operations and Army aviation are making those points as the U.S. command in Kabul begins an investigation into the mission that killed 30 Americans, 17 of them elite Navy SEALs, when a rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) hit the CH-47 in Warnak province.
"It's a big aircraft," said retired Army Brig. Gen. Sam Cockerham, who flew helicopters in Vietnam. "It's a cargo aircraft. It's not an attack aircraft. It's not a scout aircraft. It's a cargo aircraft, so that means when it goes into a risky area, it's got to have some protection with it. It's got to have scouts on the ground and also something in the air flying along with it."
The U.S. command in Kabul has yet to release full mission details. Marine Gen. John Allen, the top NATO commander in Afghanistan, declined at a recent press conference to discuss the air assets at his disposal. He has ordered an investigation that will officially determine the crash's cause, as well at look at the mission itself.
An Army pilot told The Washington Times: "Escorts are always preferred for lift aircraft. Sometimes they go in pairs, sometimes with other utility aircraft, sometimes with attack or recon aircraft. There are hundreds of specific missions a day, and only so many aircraft to cover them. When it is possible, yes, they get an escort."
Military officials first said the hastily dispatched Chinook was sent to rescue pinned down Army Rangers in a firefight with a dozen or so Taliban militants. But Gen. Allen later provided a different reason, saying the Rangers requested more forces to kill or capture fleeing Taliban.
"One thing that has been lost in all the stories I have read is that CH-47s were designed only for noncombat support missions," said a special operations soldier who has served in Afghanistan. "Even the MH-47s rely on stealth to survive."
The MH model is a specialized CH-47 flown by the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, based at Fort Campbell, Ky. For the doomed SEAL mission, commanders chose the conventional CH-47 with a regular crew, not a special operations pilots and crew.
The special operations source said the twin-engine Chinook's ability to fly at relatively high altitudes "has caused planners to use them in ways for which they were not designed, landing in or near hot landing zones. It is an amazing aircraft but has very poor survivability when under fire — This disaster was of our own making and completely avoidable. It was simply uncalled for unless Rangers were being overrun and the ground situation required this much operational risk."
Statistics compiled by the website ArmyAirCrews.com underscore that point.
The site, run by Kevin Allen, a former crew chief on Army helicopters, reports that there have been 11 fatal Chinook crashes in Afghanistan since 2001. Of the seven brought down by enemy ground fire, six were by the relatively crude RPG.
In contrast, the Army's other workhorse, troop-carrying chopper — the 20,000-pound UH-60 Black Hawk — has suffered only four fatal crashes in Afghanistan. None involved RPGs.
"The Black Hawk has had some advances as far as crash worthiness, as compared to the Chinook," Mr. Allen said. "Obviously, the Chinook is a lot older aircraft than the Black Hawk. I just think it's the advances in safety that Black Hawk has because it is more modern than the Chinook is a main factor in that."
Of course, the Black Hawk is not immune to the RPG. In one of the most famous post-Cold War battles, known as "Black Hawk Down," two special operations versions were felled by Somali fighters in Mogadishu in 1993.
"No one in their right mind sends a Chinook, or any other helicopter, into a place where they know they're going to get shot at," the Army pilot said. "Everywhere is a potential danger area. You could get shot at any time. An AK-47 and a RPG are basically in the same category. On the fly, pull up and take a shot, duck out of sight, hide the weapon, blend in. It's a difficult formula to defend against. There isn't a helicopter out there that can withstand ground fire. There are well-placed armor panels, but if we fortified them to withstand ground fire, they would never get off the ground."
Boeing is still producing new Chinooks nearly 50 years after it first entered the Army inventory.
"The Chinook is a true multirole, vertical-lift platform," Boeing says. "The primary Chinook mission is transport of artillery, troops, ammunition, fuel and supplies within military theaters of operation."
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Continued...
Tip from Afghanistan
Posted by Ann Barnhardt – August 7, AD 2011 6:57 AM MST
I received a tip from a soldier stationed with an aviation brigade out of Jalalabad overnight.
“Almost immediately, after news of the crash began to spread, we were placed in an internet and phone blackout. This means communication with family, friends and “others” back home, in real time, is prevented until further notice.
However, there are also chinook pilots, crews and mechanics assigned here who were privy to the details of the crash almost immediately. One of confirmed details they have been discussing is that the chinook shot down belonged to a National Guard unit. Which is causing people to whisper in astonishment, “why were some of the most elite of America’s military, in such large numbers, tooling around on a National Guard aircraft?”
Also, those around me are wondering why such a large number(extremely unconventional for Seals, Green Berets, etc) of them riding in a single aircraft instead of being spread out into numerous aircraft.
Without question, I mean no disrespect to the pilots and crew of the National Guard aircraft, but the fact is that it’s very “strange” that Seals would be conducting an actual mission, with such large numbers, in such a basic aircraft. Especially, given the fact, that there were special operation chinooks easily available, and sitting idle, when this tragedy took place.”
I am not a journalist. I have no means of checking this. But SOMEONE needs to investigate if in fact the SEALS were on a National Guard helo, if there were SPECOPS Chinooks available and idle, and what the difference in armament is between Guard Chinooks and SPECOPS Chinooks. This potential difference in armament is HUGE and could account for the possibility of the Chinook being shot down by an RPG, if that is what happened.
Hello? Journalists? Anyone out there?
UPDATE: The SPECOPS Chinook is a very different beast that is heavily upgraded with enhanced survivability features. It is the Boeing MH-47E/G. Boeing’s Homepage for the SPECOPS chinook here. The soldier quoted above contends that the SEALS were NOT in one of these units, but rather in a standard Chinook while these SPECOPS Chinooks were available and sitting idle. Again, a JOURNALIST needs to confirm this.
UPDATE 2: From a reader:
Ann,
You are on to something here. I was in the 160th 1982- 1985 and I can tell you that the reason the aviation wing was created was so special ops would never again have to fly missions with anyone other than their own pilots and birds.
UPDATE 3: From a reader:
Ann, I’m sure you’re getting a lot of notes on the Chinook debacle. I’m retired USAF familiar with how the system works when it comes to the questions asked by your Jalalabad contact. First, look to the Command Authority. Dispersion protocols are almost never broken except on direct order up the chain high enough that nobody could question or refuse the order without jeopardizing their career.Second, ‘who benefits’? Follow the trail of beneficiaries to the incident. Tactically, intell had to be passed to the shooters as to the timetable. I’m willing to bet that there were several RPG’s (if not Stinger’s – remember, we provided quite a few and never kept a record during the Soviet incursion into Afghanistan) involved. Then, once fired, the shooters had to egress unseen to fight another day. Many people I know, including some recently back from that area say this stinks to high Heaven, as you do.
Updated August 8, 2011 3:30pm ET
Today 31 NATO troops, 20 of them Navy Seals from the Osama bin Laden operation died in what is reported as a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.
The chances of this story being true is almost nil. The chances of this being a staged cover-up is over 80%. We believe these people were murdered to silence them. This is why.
Some Possibly Killed in Abbottabad Helicopter Crash Months Before
By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor – Veteran Times
We have solid information on two areas:
1.Osama bin Laden died in 2001 as an active CIA employee and his body was recovered in Afghanistan and taken to “the sand box.” We were told it was frozen. We have so much verification from this, CIA, ISI, US military and top officials. I have a direct confirmation from Bin Laden’s CIA handler who I grilled mercilessly on this.
2.The Abbottabad operation involved numerous American deaths, witnessed, bodies all over, a helicopter crash. (suppressed translated TV interview below) These bodies were recovered by land vehicle from Islamabad and there was NO “successful” bin Laden operation of any kind. There was and has been a CIA safe house in Abbotabad where terror suspects were stored for years.
This gave the US several areas of severe vulnerability. Generally, Navy Seals are the best people in the world at keeping their mouths shut, these are real team players, as the term “Seal Team” belies.
We at VT were informed that the bin Laden operation was staged at this time, a theatrical farce, to cover the exit of Secretary Gates, the move by former CIA Director Leon Panetta into the DOD as Secretary of Defense and to stem any heroic claims by new CIA Director Petraeus of killing the long dead Osama bin Laden, the long frozen CIA operative.
Petraeus is a possible presidential contender and had to be denied this “gift from heaven,” a fast track to the oval office for sure.
Will We Ever Know What Happened?
Again, I remind you, I went over specific meetings on bin Laden with his handlers, getting every last detail. I have watched what has gone on, the continuing need to vilify a long dead top CIA operative to provide residual cover for the Bush administration….
The reason? Bush and his cronies are all facing charges of war crimes, not just in minor jurisdictions but heading for the ICC, putting them on the dock with Gaddafi ( a far less harmful character).
As for the timing of this incident? This we will work on. What we can easily surmise is that some of the dead have been dead since their bodies were taken away from the helicopter crash site in Abbotabad.
Who would order such a thing? We are going to have to wait but we are going to find out. However, we expected this, the timing is exactly as predicted.
HOW VT TRIED TO SAVE THEM
When the phony Abbotbad operation came out, I immediately understood what happened. I also saw much potential good from it other than the tragedy of the dead Americans from the crash. I wrote of this and see their deaths as more heroic than many recognize.
They died to erase for all time remnants of the Bush era fairly tale of badguy and evildoer Osama bin Laden. Enough good men had died chasing a ghost who lived only in phony video and audio tapes by “Bin Laden Studios” in Tel Aviv and in the continual “boogeyman” rhetoric of professional fearmongers.
Not long afterward, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, another able public servant announced the near defeat of Al Qaeda, another Bush fairly tale.
Al Qaeda has never existed, there are no magic worldwide terror conspiracies other than those run by governments. There are several of those and I have written extensively on these. Google will help you with this if you are curious.
When VT saw why the government staged this, we saw we could accomplish two things:
1.We could simply report the truth for those willing to believe it, something we believe is the right thing to do.
2.We could also support the United States in a very real way, knowing Pakistan would weather this crisis, timed, in some ways, as a face saving move in response to the embarrassing Raymond Davis affair. I believed if the truth came out, clear enough for insiders, intel and miliary for sure, to understand that we knew and other insiders knew, there would be no reason to “clean house” afterward, to stage a coverup and get rid of any involved.
Abbotabad – How Many Died Here?
I had felt that we had provided cover for the Seal Team, we hadn’t trashed them, we acknowledged the dead at Abbotabad where no one else bothered, this is our job as fellow members of America’s military forces (current and former).
More importantly, we got out word, I certainly did enough radio and TV on this, enough that, for anyone who care, the “truth was out there.”
This is all we could do but I hoped it would stem a need for covering tracks. After all, anyone leaking real information on the operation would only seem like they had gotten it from me and I put it out there in such a manner that I allowed room to be “debunked.”
I do this to protect myself but I really was thinking of them. These are great guys, Seals are among the best people on earth. The Seal and Special Forces communities are, of the military groups in the US, some of the finest people I know.
They also help cover my “behind,” which I appreciate.
This is just too obvious, too brazen. I can’t imagine it started at the White House or even cabinet level but maybe I am deluding myself. Bin Laden was all about the election.
After the bond collapse and credit disaster yesterday, anything threatening President Obama’s reelection is seen, by some, as a threat to America’s financial survival. This debt crisis is a bigger threat to the US than a Japanese invasion in 1942 would have been.
You may not see it that way and you certainly cant get out your hunting rifle to fix it. (Don’t be a sap, kill a Jap!)
Osama in Better Days
Someone had gotten to someone. My best guess and this is a guess…an expose’ by the mainstream media, perhaps Murdoch, another guess, conjecture I admit, regarding the farce at Abbottabad, information possibly gotten through spying, bribery and blackmail, threatened to take down Obama.
With Murdoch’s good friend and “monkeyboy,” Netanyahu ‘on the ropes,” with crowds marching in Israel’s streets demanding his ouster, we have more timing to factor in.
The bin Laden killing, the third rate drama of capturing an unarmed frozen dead guy and throwing him into the ocean had probably become an albatross around certain high ranking necks.
Norway was no accident, it was a warning too. It has been containerized, just as the Murdoch espionage issue is now “poor Rupert and the pie thrower.”
These Americans are casualties in a game, one like 9/11, sacrificial pawns, like Britain’s 7/7, all lies, all theatre, all evil.
This is not for public consumption. There are those who know exactly who I am talking to.
There are many of us here who still keep our mouths shut about so many things. There are too many who don’t even care, most of us at VT do. Yes, I am aware I can be jailed, I am aware my passport can be pulled, I already see the damned surveillance.
Amateurs.
We aren’t anti-American. I am simply sick of seeing solutions that go one direction, stealing everything that isn’t nailed down. I am also sick of the fact that Washington can’t visit the “head’ without Israel’s permission.
This…today, this is too much. It is unforgivable. We are not going to allow this to stand.
We have a long standing history of “cleaning house” after operations of this kind. Usually its dead senators in plane crashes, heart attacks, car wrecks, like the Minot Barksdale or 9/11 incidents. I could name a dozen more. Does the name Wheeler meaning anything to you? Anyone remember Pat Tillman?
But this many?
http://askmarion.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/navy-seal-team-6-the-cover-up-continues/
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Navy Seal Team 6 – The Cover-up Continues
Posted on August 10, 2011 by Ask Marion
Navy Seals Team 6 – Update or Conspiracy Alert
US (Obama) bars media from covering return of 30 dead soldiers killed in Afghanistan
WASHINGTON: The Pentagon has ruled out media coverage of a ceremony marking the return of 30 US soldiers, including 22 Navy SEALs, who were killed when the helicopter they were travelling in was shot down in Afghanistan.
The return of the remains in flag draped coffins to the Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, possibly today, was denied media coverage because given the nature of the attack there were “no identifiable remains” of these servicemen, Pentagon spokesman Marine Col David Lapan told reporters during an off camera briefing.
The International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan said the CH-47 Chinook helicopter was reportedly shot down by an insurgent rocket-propelled grenade while transporting the US service members and Afghan commandos to the scene of an engagement between ISAF and insurgent forces.
As a result of the attack, the helicopter exploded in midair, killing everyone on board.
“Due to the catastrophic nature of the crash, the remains of our fallen service members will be returned to the US via Dover AFB in unidentified status, until they can be positively identified by the Armed Forces Mortuary Affairs Office at Dover,” another Pentagon spokesman, Navy Captain Jane Campbell said in a statement later.
“Because the remains are unidentified at this point, next-of-kin are not in a position to grant approval for media access to the dignified transfer,” he said.
Therefore, in accordance with the policy of the Department of Defense, no media coverage of the arrival and dignified transfer is permitted, Campbell said.
“Families will however, be given the opportunity to be present for the arrival,” he said.
Coverage of arrival of soldiers killed in battlefield was banned for the media during the previous Bush administration.
The Obama administration permitted media coverage of the return ceremony for service members killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, subject to the approval by the next-of-kin. But this time the Department of Defense ruled against the media coverage.
Pentagon Press Association president Nancy Youssef said the organization has protested the decision to ban media coverage and had sought to reverse the decision. posted at Times of India - US
Navy Seals Team 6 – Update or Conspiracy Alert
Posted by Ask Marion on 7, 2011
Saturday, August 6th, 2011 Fox news released the alert early in the day that twenty members of Seal Team Six, the unit responsible for getting Osama Bin Laden were killed in Afghanistan. Additional information trickled out bit by bit… And in minutes the blogosphere lit up. More people than not immediately felt and stated their suspicions that something was just not right with this news.
Then mysteriously by the end of the day the reports began to change and the news was “corrected”, now it was being reported that it wasn’t any of the guys from the Bin Laden mission but other Seals.
We have friends who has a son serving right now that is part of a Special Forces Team and just back states side at a base filled with Special Forces. He says that everyone of them believes that there is something fishy with the deaths, the reports, the events and especially the changing story. Below is some input:
Was Seal Team Six Executed by Obama Administration?
The shocking death of the SEALS who took out bin Laden is starting to stink like a corpse. And the one who’s sniffing that stench the loudest is Ann Barnhardt. Immediately upon the tragic news of the deaths of Seal Team 6, Ann erupted with disgust at why President Obama’s staff had blared news of the deaths before the families of the deceased had themselves been notified. This is NOT in accordance with military protocol. She was also vehemently suspicious of just how Obama had been able to know the identities of the dead personnel when there hadn’t been enough time for DNA analysis; indeed, most of the bodies hadn’t yet been recovered. But most of all she was highly suspicious as to just how the bumbling buffoons of the Taliban had been able to take out the elite Seals. We all know that America’s soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan are awesome – but, face it folks, the Seals are a breed apart.
Seals operate in total secrecy, nobody knows who they are, where they are or what they’re doing; in short, the Seals are ‘invisible’ to the world, including their own fellow soldiers. In fact, the Seals are ‘invisible’ to themselves in terms of knowing where they will be within the next hour or what they will be doing. That secrecy protects them. And the protection is ratcheted even higher when one adds in the amazing agility with which Seals move; finding them is nearly impossible because they slip and slide amongst the landscape like – well, like seals do in the ocean, darting at awesome speeds in the twinkling of an eye. Which means that even if you DO get them in your sights, their speed is so incredible they could vanish before you pull the trigger. So, given the slovenly ineptitude of the Taliban (a ragtag bunch of losers who more often blow themselves up instead of their targets), it is unthinkable that such a band of incompetents would have been able to execute such a huge number of highly trained, incredibly well-protected Seals. It was akin to a high school dweeb taking down Bruce Lee with a single kick.
As far as Barnhardt was concerned, the death of the Seals could only have happened because of insider information. The Taliban had to have known exactly where and when those Seals would be appear on the landscape – and had to been waiting with proper weaponry that would fire at precisely the right moment and angle. Only then could all of those Seals been taken down. The Seals wouldn’t have told the Taliban, their brother officers wouldn’t have and neither would have their immediate superiors. No, only someone much higher up, someone privy to top secret information could have given that out. And once you understand that an attack of this magnitude needed an insider, the next logical question is – why would the insider do that? What would be their motive?
Well, if that insider were a President who refused to take out bin Laden because that President didn’t want to ‘upset’ the Muslims, than getting revenge on the ones who did is a whopper of a motive. A fit of the self-pitying sulks only makes the motive worse. Contrary to the lies from his administration, Obama was not glorified by the take down of bin Laden, he was instead humiliated. This is because Obama never had a single thing to do with the terrorist’s death; it was all the work of CIA Director Leon Panetta. Four months before the attack on the terrorist, Panetta and General Petraeus had located bin Laden’s whereabouts and begged the President to authorize a takedown of the murderer. But Obama flatly refused. He was more concerned with the feelings of the Muslim world than the grief and pain of the American victims of 9/11. Enraged by Obama’s stance, Panetta then staged a palace coup by secretly organizing the entire operation himself (with the explicit cooperation of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and then Secretary of Defense Robert Gates). The killing of bin Laden was thus Panetta’s triumph, not the Commander in Chief – which accounts for that humiliating picture of the Command Center in the White House basement on the night bin Laden died. Whereas Clinton, Gates and even VP Biden are all seated at the command table as they’re briefed (off camera) by Panetta on the takedown, the President of the United States is banished from the table to squat in the corner like a tyke on his potty straining to make Number 2. (Obama even has his finger in his mouth.) It also explains why Obama’s nanny, Valerie Jarrett, was nowhere in sight. Because she’d shrieked even worse than Obama against taking out the terrorist because of her concern for Muslim ‘good will’, Panetta had slammed the door of the room shut in her face. Trust me – Valerie and Barack had more than enough motive to ‘punish’ the Seals.
Well, someone did just that because now the Seals are dead. Barnhardt is smelling a rat – and I am also. And the smell is only getting worse with the news (which Barnhardt outlines below) that the Seals themselves were not only clumped together in abnormally huge numbers (they never travel in large packs) but were also NOT traveling in their usual specially armored choppers.
I hope and pray that I (and Ann) are wrong. But I don’t think so.
http://askmarion.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/navy-seal-team-6-the-cover-up-continues/
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By any metric, the Clinton administration was more corrupt than the Reagan administration, unless of course you quote extreme liberal websites, such as "great liberal insights.org"
Can you provide any proof of the alleged corruption of the Clinton administration?.. Or are you just quoting more radical conservative propaganda?
I'm sure there is corruption in all administrations, Democrat and Republican .. but the bottom line is Clinton actually balanced the national deficit in his eight years in office, while Reagan and Bush senior created even more debt.. Those are the facts, whether you like them or not.
Some of the labels you apply to Reagan are so wrong they're funny.What labels are suppossedly wrong and why do you think they're funny?
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Getting back on topic ...
The Tea Party Is Dangerous: Dispelling 7 Myths That Help Us Avoid Reality About the New Right-Wing Politics
"It may be fashionable to dismiss the Tea Party and its radical, right-wing pals, but we do so at our peril.
Really, we shouldn’t have been surprised. Just as a recession hit of unprecedented force, yielding high unemployment, conservatives found themselves sidelined, Obama’s triumph coming on the heels of the Democrats’ congressional victories of 2006. That partisan change would have been enough to make conservatives ornery, but the cultural change represented by the nation’s first African-American president struck fear into the hearts of many -- especially after liberal San Franciscan Nancy Pelosi became the first woman to wield the gavel of the Speaker of the House.
The inevitable backlash against such a sweeping shift, shepherded by an array of corporate-funded entities, culminated in the creation of the Tea Party movement -- a dangerous brew of resentment and fear that threatens to roll back the majority the Democrats enjoy in the House of Representatives, and set the nation on a path to a right-wing government even more restrictive and regressive than that of the Bush era.
But bad economies create bad politics, notes economist and Nobel laureate Paul Krugman. Economic downturns traditionally, over the course of history, usher in swings to the right, Krugman writes. The administration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt was an aberration in this regard, and, perhaps, as Michael Tomasky suggests, in the course of American history. But since the Great Depression offers our most recent experience of severe economic crisis, its story is etched in the progressive mind as the narrative for how the nation naturally responds to economic catastrophe.
More than a year ago, Robert Reich warned of the vitriol we see today from the Tea Party movement, as well as its likely targets. “Make no mistake: Angry right-wing populism lurks just below the surface of the terrible American economy,” Reich wrote, “ready to be launched not only at Obama but also at liberals, intellectuals, gays, blacks, Jews, the mainstream media, coastal elites, crypto socialists, and any other potential target of paranoid opportunity.”.."
More here ..
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I suggest you read David Stockman's book (he was Director of the OMB under Reagan) "Triumph of Politics" to provide an understanding of why there was a budget deficit under Reagan and Bush.
I suggest you read more unbiased material, instead of more republican propaganda.. Reagan's "trickle down economics" was a joke.
The Reagan Budget: The Deficit that Didn't Have to Be
"With all the heated arguments about Reaganomics in the last year and a half, the following may seem a startling assertion, but it is true: There is no Reaganomics. There is a new style of rhetoric in Washington, a lot of talk about tax cuts, getting the government off our backs, reducing the size of government. But it is all talk. Taxes and spending are going to be higher every year. The rhetoric is different. The policies are the same.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa013.html
The massive (but under-reported) Reagan Administration corruption
"Conservatives and Republicans are such paragons of virtue and truth that they tried to pin Ronald Reagam's "most corrupt administration in American history" medal on Bill Clinton! Despite the fact that the President and first lady, and many members of the Clinton administration were deluged with charges of criminal behavior on the street and in the media, their accusers fell flat on their faces when they had to prove their trumped up charges in court, where it's evidence and proof that matter not claims that a good lawyer can show to be devoid of serious credibility.
Contrast that to the great numbers of the Republican administration of Ronald Reagan who were not just charged, but were found guilty, in court! How can it be that most Americans don't remember the Reagan administration for its corruption? It couldn't possible be because the so-called "Liberal media" rarely, if ever, shines its powerful spotlights on that part of U.S. history? My spotlight is nowhere as strong as theirs, but if enough of us help to spread the word, mayhe we can make up for that deficiency.
The contenders for the title of "the most corrupt administration in American history" are all Republican administrations. It may be hard to order them exactly, but the contenders for the first, second, third & fourth "most corrupt administrations in American history" are the Republican administrations of Grant, Harding, Nixon and Reagan.
Before any conservative dismisses what we have to say about Reagan on this site just because we are liberals, after taking a good hard look at the record, the very conservative site Jesus-is-Savior.com/Wolves/reagan.htm came to many of the very same conclusions that we reached, i.e. ( in their own words) :
"Let us remember Reagan as he really was :
xxxx
Thief
Mass murderer
Supporter of abortion
War criminal
Destroyer of freedom
Traitor of the American people
Corporate whore
Destroyer of the environment
Supporter of Satanists & child murderers "
Ronald Reagan's Criminal Administration:
"By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."
Much more here...
http://great-liberal-insights.org/about/Reagan.html
To my knowledge Hilary Clinton has never held an elected office. What is your basis for saying that she can "Walk the Walk"? To what political philosphy does she subscribe? I have never read her political platform, maybe you can provide some reference?Hilary Clinton was elected Senator of New York.
She can walk the walk because she understands the mindsets of her conservative enemies better than anyone else on the planet.. Which means she wouldn't allow a republican congress to walk all over her the way Barack Obama does.
Her political philosphy is the same as her husband's .. and he didn't allow those conservative goons to walk all over him either, even after they threw away over 40 billion taxpayer dollars impeaching him for an unimpeachable offense.
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Obviously, Duane, you do not understand the nature of context
I understand the nature if context very well .. My own claims have been taken out of context often on this forum.
As for the statements made by these Tea Party leaders, perhaps you can enlighten us with their suppossed context and show where they may have been misrepresented?
For one thing, you cut and past an editorial, not just a post, because the editorial uses first person POV, the "I"; when you copy an editorial without using quotation marks around each statement, regardless of the imprimatuer of the origan site, the context appears to be in your point of view, ie, your statement. That is rather unethical.Quotes are not necessary when the source link shows who wrote the text.
Quite a large part of the Tea Party constituency primarily just advocate changeThat may be true, but they are being very much overshadowd by the ignorant loud mouths who are in charge of that "change".
I forgot to answer your question before..
What do you offer as to the current state of the ineffectual Washington political situation?My solution to fixing what's wrong with the current political situation in DC would be to elect a Democrat like Hilary Clinton, who doesn't just talk the talk (like our current President) but can also walk the walk, like her husband Bill.
President Clinton not only cleaned up the original 12 year Reagan / Bush financial mess and balanced the national budget in less that eight years, but did it while being attacked by the rabid republican witch hunters who impeached him for not keeping his pants zipped.. An offense that is NOT impeachable .. An impeachable offense is LYING ABOUT WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ, WAGING TWO WARS FOR NO LEGITIMATE REASON, AND STEALING TWO ELECTIONS.
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I'm not slandering the Tea Party .. I'm merely exposing the incompetent, dangerous mentality of those who belong to it.
As much as you might want their asinine statements to have been taken out of context, they weren't .. The context in which they made those inane/insane comments were included.
Why the Tea Party Is Far More Dangerous Than Progressives Give It Credit For
This post originally appeared on Booman Tribune.
I think Bill Scher is spot-on in everything he has to say about the Tea Party and its historic and contemporary place in American politics. But there is one very important thing that he misses. He’s completely correct in saying this:
The Tea Party is nothing new. It is merely the latest incarnation of the right-wing fringe that predictably overheats whenever a left-of-center reformer is elected to the presidency. It was the John Birch Society and the National Indignation Convention in the early 1960s, the Moral Majority and other “New Right” groups in the late 1970s, and Rush Limbaugh’s “dittoheads” and the militia movement in the 1990s.
I have said these same things many times. But the difference between now and the 1960’s or even the 1990’s is that the fringe of the right-wing has now spread to the whole carpet. Sure, only 18 percent of the electorate self-identifies as a Tea Party supporter, but that’s a huge percentage of the Republican electorate (and, yes, they are almost all Republicans). Fringe has built upon fringe.
How many Republicans have had to back down and apologize to Rush Limbaugh for contradicting or criticizing something he’s said on the air? Republican politicians are dealing with an insane base that’s been fed on paranoid hate-filled garbage from ‘entertainers’ for decades. It’s a rare Republican who’s willing to tell it like it is to these people. After Rep. Bob Inglis told South Carolina Republicans to stop listening to Glenn Beck, they gave him a meager 29% of the vote in the primary. His opponent got 71%. Here’s what Inglis says now:
Republican Rep. Bob Inglis, who last month lost a primary battle to retain his seat, is now taking aim at some members of his own party – the second ousted Republican to express frustration with the GOP in as many weeks.In an interview with the Associated Press and confirmed to CNN by his office, Inglis targets the “death panels” phrase made famous by Sarah Palin when the former Alaska governor inaccurately claimed the Democratic-backed health care legislation would ration health care for the elderly.
“There were no death panels in the bill … and to encourage that kind of fear is just the lowest form of political leadership. It’s not leadership. It’s demagoguery,” said Inglis, who lost his primary challenge to conservative Trey Gowdy by 42 points last month and faced heavy criticism for voting in favor of the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) in 2009.
What’s changed is that the nutcases on the right are capable of beating a sane Republican incumbent by 42 points if they step out of line. Believe me, every member of the GOP in Congress is aware of this fact. They have to eat chicken dinners with these people and ask them for money. Arlen Specter knew his goose was cooked as soon as he saw the reaction to Sarah Palin. In fact, it was the selection of Sarah Palin to be a vice-presidential candidate that put this Tea Party movement into overdrive. Up to that point all their energy was being put into Ron Paul’s delegate-deprived run for the presidency. McCain made the single most irresponsible political decision since a lame-duck James Buchanan sat silently while half the country seceded from the Union.
But I’m getting off my point. My point is that, while Scher is correct to point out the Tea Party is merely the latest incarnation of the right’s rage at being governed by a Democratic President, and to point out their overall numbers are small, he’s wrong to give the impression that we’re not dealing with something extremely dangerous. Because, if you haven’t noticed, the Republicans are voting in absolute lockstep, and they’re dancing to the Tea Partiers tune. They are terrified of opposing them. And even when they do oppose them we see outcomes like Rand Paul crushing the establishment candidate in a socially conservative (i.e., not a libertarian) state.
I’ve never seen a fringe movement take control of a party’s soul and mind like this before. I was hoping that the governance of Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, and Karl Rove was the worst the right could offer, but it’s not even close. The Republicans have been cynical so long that they’ve been taken over by the duped.
Actual Republican congresspeople (with a handful of exceptions) have no interest in the Tea Party’s priorities. Want proof? Read the Mission & Platform just passed by Maine’s GOP. It’s cuckoo land. And that might be the saving grace for this country, because the establishment GOP doesn’t intend to become the party of Rand Paul. They just want to use that energy to get back into power and take the gavels back from the Democrats. But, first of all, we just saw what ‘reasonable’ establishment Republican politics can do to our country, so we can’t take much solace from the fact that that establishment is taking their cynicism to eleven by playing footsie with these people. Secondly, a bunch of the new Republicans elected this November are going to be certifiably Michele Bachmann-insane. And just like with the Republican Class of 1994, sixteen years later some of the people will be governors and senators.
The Republican Party that impeached Clinton was dangerously insane. They took it up several notches after 9/11. But what we’re witnessing now is of a totally different scale. The parasite has taken over the host.
So, I don’t dismiss these people at all. I think they rank with climate change and nuclear proliferation as threats to humanity. And we have no time to be dicking around arguing over the soul of Barack Obama.
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Here are some of the outrageous beliefs and statements made by Tea Party leaders.
''Our nation was founded on violence. The option is on the table. I don't think that we should ever remove anything from the table as it relates to our liberties and our freedoms.''
—Tea Party-backed Texas GOP congressional candidate Stephen Broden, suggesting the violent overthrow of the U.S. government if Republicans don't win at the ballot box, interview with Dallas's WFAA-TV, Oct. 21, 2010
''They're following me. They follow me home at night. I make sure that I come back to the townhouse and then we have our team come out and check all the bushes and check all the cars to make sure that -- they follow me.''
—Delaware GOP Senate nominee and Tea Party favorite Christine O'Donnell, claiming that unnamed political opponents are following her, Weekly Standard interview, Sept. 2, 2010
''I absolutely do not believe in the science of man-caused climate change. It's not proven by any stretch of the imagination...It's far more likely that it's just sunspot activity or just something in the geologic eons of time. Excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere 'gets sucked down by trees and helps the trees grow.'''
—Ron Johnson, Tea Party-backed GOP Senate candidate in Wisconsin, Aug. 16, 2010
''The Federal Department of Education should be eliminated. The Department of Education is unconstitutional and should not be involved in education, at any level.''
—Nevada GOP Senate nominee and Tea Party favorite Sharron Angle, July 12, 2010
''We will talk a little bit about what has transpired in the last 18 months and would we count what has transpired into turning our country into a nation of slaves.''
—Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN), founder of the congressional Tea Party Caucus, speaking at the Western Conservative Summit in Denver about the evils of the Obama administration, July 9, 2010
Tea Party candidate Ken Buck, after being asked why people should vote for him for the Colorado GOP Senate nomination: ''Because I do not wear high heels. She has questioned my manhood, and I think it's fair to respond. I have cowboy boots, they have real bullxxxx on them. And that's Weld County bullxxxx, not Washington, D.C., bullxxxx.'' Buck was referring to an ad run by his opponent, which decried third-party spending on behalf of his campaign and urged Buck to ''be man enough'' to run the ads himself (July 21, 2010)
''It is not enough to be abstinent with other people, you also have to be abstinent alone. The Bible says that lust in your heart is committing adultery. You can't masturbate without lust!''
—Delaware GOP Senate nominee and Tea Party favorite Christine O'Donnell, advocating against masturbation in a 1996 appearance on MTV's 'Sex In The 90s' TV show
And my personal favorate...
''Do you know, where does this phrase 'separation of church and state' come from? It was not in Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists. ... The exact phrase 'separation of Church and State' came out of Adolph Hitler's mouth, that's where it comes from. So the next time your liberal friends talk about the separation of Church and State, ask them why they're Nazis.''
—Glen Urquhart, the Tea Party-backed Republican nominee for the Delaware House seat held by Rep. Mike Castle, April 2010
And the ignorance goes on and on.
The next installment will include some of Sarah Palin's asinine quotes, plus much more ignorance from the Party who wants to take over America...
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Sorry Duane but neither article you posted offered anything more than undocumented claims and baseless speculation. Even if the author of the 2nd one wasn’t BSing why would we expect “a retired Colonel, US Army intel)” to have inside information about the recent membership of a highly secretive Navy special ops team?
The official story of bin Laden's alleged recent murder amounts to undocumented claims and baseless speculation.. Or do you perhaps have inside knowledge which proves it was really bin Laden who was killed in that raid, or that Navy Seal Team 6 was really taken out by enemy fire? .. If that team were so secretive, what were they all doing together, like a pack of sitting ducks, in a regular Army helicopter?
Airbus? It was a helicopter. Why do “you find it a bit odd that” a special forces team would be deployed to “a dangerous war zone”?It's the size of an airbus .. I don't find it odd that they were deployed to dangerous war zone .. I find it odd that they were all placed in an Army helicopter, notorious for being an easy target.
Who says that Chinooks are “one of the most dangerous means of transportation the Army has to offer?” I assume helicopters were used because they are faster (and in some cases safer) that ground transportation.The Army has admitted that the Chinooks are one of the most dangerous means of transportation... That's why they are never used to transport that many special ops forces.... until now.
How would they have known SEALS let alone members of Team 6, let alone the ones who killed OBL were on the helicopter? Who says the men killed participated in the assassination of OBL?No one said "they" did know.. Interesting question, considering the fact that we all know who did know which team was in that Chinook.
Why is that suspicious?The bad guys, who allegedy killed the good guys, who allegedly killed the BIGGEST BAD GUY of all time, are now all dead and can't talk .. Yet you don't find that the least bit suspicious???
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Sad, to say the least.
What's really sad is the amount of disinformation being peddled by the US government, that is accepted as fact, even when none of it adds up, and the official story of bin Laden's alleged recent murder keeps changing.
Now, let's digest this latest development for a while, before commenting, shall we? What about the possibility that pretty soon one or more of the widows to one of those killed in Afghanistan in the chopper incident speaks out?Just as Bin Ladins daughter and wife did? Would it make a difference?
Shall we?
What exactly do you think they would like to speak out about? .. Their suspicions (or possible knowledge) that the raid on that compound was just another political stunt?.. Or maybe their suspicions (or possible knowledge) of why their Team 6 husbands are now all dead? .. Unfortunately, there's about as much chance of them speaking out as their now dead husbands.
As for bin Laden's alleged wife and daughter, they could be part of the scam.. Especially if it wasn't really bin Laden who was killed during that raid.. According to the article I posted, eyewitness outside the compound stated that the Navy Seals onboard the chopper that crashed were killed.. That one chopper never even landed, and that the 12 Seals who actually went into the compound, from the chopper that did land, came out with no dead body in tow.
Bottom line is, the official story does not add up.. As usual.
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It's impressive. This thing about you having all the answers (for now, let's just leave the evidence aside). So why don't we get back to the original subject of this thread and the questions I asked, shall we?
I never claimed to have all the answers .. I've only submitted what some say is inside info on why and how the Navy Seal Team were killed and why the murder of bin Laden is a myth.
The Taliban have publicly recognized that Bin Ladin was killed by the Americans - and demanded revenge.According to what sources? .. I've never seen any interview with any Taliban members who claim that bin Laden was killed in that raid.. I don't watch the news 24/7, so there's a possiblilty I missed it .. but then again, there's always the possibility that if any alleged "Taliban" member did make that claim, that it's just more US propaganda/disinformation.
Bin Ladins wife, and Bin Ladins daugther, have both confirmed the killing of UBL.Have you seen them interviewed? .. And if so, what proof do you have that these women are who they say they are, and that they aren't part of a CIA cover up?
The Al qaida No 2, Ayman Al Zawahiri has, in a taped statement, confirmed that "they will require revenge" for the killing of "the sheijk, Osama Bin Ladin".Did he claim that bin Laden was actually killed in that particular raid, or was it just a general statement about the Taliban seeking revenge for his death? .. For all we know, they could be using bin Laden's alleged murder as just another reason to kill Americans.
Please enlighten me as to how the above facts are absorbed into your theories. If that's not doable, then I'm sure you will be able to explain the hoaxes, lies and disinfo that obviously has somehow trickled in here.Where is the proof that they are facts?.. There's more evidence kicking around that bin Laden died many years ago from certain illnesses, than there is that he was just killed in a Navy Seal operation.. In fact, there's no proof at all that he was just killed in that raid.
Like I've said before, NO BODY, NO PICTURES OF DEAD BODY, NO PHYSICAL PROOF THAT BIN LADIN WAS MURDERED IN THAT "FIREFIGHT" = NO CIGAR!
Poll = enough evidence to prove government helped 911 to occur ?
in 11 September 2001 attacks
Posted
I have other names for them Steve, but unfortunately I'm not allowed to post them here..