Duane Daman

With your eyes open this time ..

Anyone who thinks that WTC 6 collapsed because of "falling debris" is either a blind fool or a government disinformation agent ... Right Len ?

Keep looking ...

No Duane, the only stupidity here is from the people who believe Jack's lies. You know as well as I do that there is NO video of any explosion or giant dust cloud from WTC6 at 9:04 because it NEVER HAPPENED. Every news station in the area (and several international) had LIVE video at 9:04, and there was no explosion recored. There were tens of thousands of eyewitnesses, and there is no testimony. Len has even proven that the dust cloud in question is above WTC5 not WTC6. And photos taken AFTER WTC2 COLLAPSED still show the roof of WTC6 intact.

I do believe that accusing Jack of posting "lies" is breaking the forum rules here .... If you pulled that crap on the UM you would be banned for it ... Oh , wait what I am thinking ? ... You and your pals can post whatever you please on that forum , as long as the government stooge moderators there agree with you ... It's people like Jack and me who get banned for posting unpopular truths .

Look again ... This time with your eyes open instead of closed .... Does the WTC 6 roof look intact to you ?

I would like very much to deal with the bag drop claim but unfortunately my "think tank" didn't follow up on what was promised to me ... and since I don't have direct contact with the engineer who was suppossed to supply the math figures which would have proven Dave wrong , there is nothing I can post on that thread yet .

As for the offset shadows , I will see what I come up with as I also try to duplicate the Conrad photo shadow .

As for the Sun angle , are you now claiming that would change the shape of the shadow as well as the length ? ... I'm not concerned with the length , but only the shape of the shadow , which Percy matched up to the subject and nasa didn't .

Dave ... Immediately after the towers collapsed , and even weeks into the clean-up , the objects which should have been found in the rubble , weren't .

It was as if the buildings were vaporized , instead of just falling down from a jet fuel fire .

The twin towers were designed and built to withstand a hit from a huge jetliner , and no building prior to 9/11 ever vaporized from a fire from above .

You all need to face the facts here .. Eyewitnesses at the scene , including firefighters and the police, heard the bombs and explosions going off on all floors as the towers came down .

Just as I thought ... Neither one of you can defend nasa's faked photo with it's incorrect shadow .

All Dave has done is to draw some lines on the photo as usual , and then pretend he has refuted Percy's corrected shadow analysis .

And all you have done is to preach and give photography lessons .

You are the professional photographer , so this should be a piece of cake for you to prove ... All you have to do is to take your expensive camera out in the sunshine , find a person to stand in the position of Conrad on the moonset and then see if you can get a shadow to match the original Apollo one .

Like I told Dave ... What you will get is a shadow which will be a closer match to Percy's corrected version , than to the faked Apollo one .

But if you are too afraid to take the shot , then I will borrow my friends digital camera and take a picture that will prove you both wrong .

The images in jack's study are from a few seconds AFTER the above image, after the debris hit the ground, the dust cloud started spreading horizontally, and it hit the inside corner of wtc5 and was funneled upwards.

Jack: If you want to be taken seriously, keep notes of your sources when you use them for your 'studies'

Kevin : If you want to be taken seriously , you need to stop posting this kind of stupidity .

The dust cloud in BOTH of Jack's studies show the dust cloud BEFORE the building collapsed ...and the dust cloud from WTC 6 was a seperate cloud .

Yeah , you win a prize ... The sucker of the year award for falling for the official government's version of 9/11 .

What you just circled was the vaporized debris containing no desks, phones , computers , filing cabinets , etc .

Even the first responders at the scene rattled off all of the items they expected to find in the rubble , but for some strange reason , didn't.

Oh , and here's one more for you boys .... Can you prove that this photo was not taken on the Moon ?

Look at the astro-NOT'S shadow and what do you see ?? .... That's right , the SHADOW of the BANJO !!! .. It even shows the SHADOW of the banjo case !!!!

So I guess this proves that Buzz took a banjo with him to the Moon , right ??

Doesn't anyone want to address my post above about Alan Bean's garrish artwork , and why he would see an exhaust plume when none of the Apollo videos ever showed one ?

Ok , enough of the Vanishing Point nonsense Dave ... Lets get back to the topic of shadows on the moonset , shall we ?

So here's what we have so far .... No one has shown any evidence that the Apollo photograph of Pete Conrad dangling from his fly system , has a shadow that matches the subject , or that the original shadow could be duplicated again by using either an Apollo spotlight 'Sun ', or the real Sun .

Here's one for you boys .... Can either one of you tell me the difference between the 'real' shadow and the faked shadow this picture ? ... They sure look identical to me .

This one photo alone shows how easily the Apollo photos were faked by pasting images into the photos .

Speaking of faked Apollo photographs and videos , where do you think Apollo astro-NOT Alan Bean got the idea to paint this picture of his alleged mission to the Moon ? ... Has he possibly forgotten that the exhaust plume on the LM was INVISIBLE in a vacuum and that's why it NEVER showed up in any of the nasa videos allegedy taken on the Moon !?!?

Sadly Jack, you are wrong again. The yellow lines ONLY show that a single lihgt source was used to create this photograph. I suggest you study up on VPA before putting both feet in your mouth again, that is unless you really like the taste of shoes. Try again next time.

Yes it does , as in a single SPOTLIGHT .

Sadly , the only thing you know how to do besides take pretty pictures , is to lecture about photography , and character assassinate those who have proven that the official Apollo photographic record is nothing but a pile of ridiculous looking faked photos .

Jack ...It's obvious by now that the Democrats in the House don't have what it takes to impeach Bush and Cheney , and bring the real 9/11 criminals to justice .... So short of a bloody revolution in the streets of America, where the 9/11 truth seekers would be squashed like flys , nothing can be done to get the truth out or stop the bad guys .

Since the media won't touch this subject , the only place left is the internet to get the truth out ... but as we both very well know , the disinformation agents and promoters of the official version of the events of that day , will do whatever it takes to stop this information from spreading any further than it already has .... and will also do whatever it takes to stop the 9/11 Truth Movement ... These are the worst of times for America and I don't see it ever getting any better .

Dave ... If your latest nonsense is correct , then the shadow in the original Apollo photo is not in the correct position either , as all Percy did was to paste his corrected shadow over the original fake .

But the POSITION of the corrected shadow in the photo really isn't the problem is it ? ... I'ts the SHAPE of the shadow which is wrong in the Apollo photo .

If you want to prove this to yourself just take a picture of someone standing out in the Sun in the position of the astronot and see what their shadow looks like ... I will guarentee you that it will NOT look anything like the phony Apollo photo and WILL look much more like Percy's photo .

None? Really?

NONE ... REALLY !!! ( Posted for Jack in reply to this type of denial nonsense )

I have posted this for Jack .

I already posted my evidence that the original shadow is incorrect , using Percy's study which MATCHES the shadow of the astronot .

What have you proven , besides you can blow a lot of smoke about photography ?

Read the articles again because you obviously don't have the facts straight ... but then you rarely do when playing your typical debunking games on this forum .

Kevin wanted proof that WTC 6 exploded , independant of the towers collapsing ... I gave him first hand eye witness accounts .

He also wanted proof that the WTC 6 employees were evacuated because of the explosions prior to the towers collapsing ... I provided that also .

The fact that you can't stand being proven wrong is your problem , not mine ... You've wasted enough of my time for today .

None of your points were lost on me ... I agree with you about the reflected light and the elongated shadows .

But so far you have NOT offered any photographic evidence which would show why the shape and position of the shadow does not match that of the subject suppossedly causing it .

The astronot is turned to the side with one leg raised as he walks ... Yet the shadow shows two straight legs standing side by side with no bend to the knee ... How do you explain that discrepancy ?

THE SMOKING GUN OF WTC # 6

This footage is the smoking gun evidence which shows one of the explosions going off moments BEFORE THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOUTH TOWER .

A massive explosion, witnessed by millions of television viewers on CNN, evidently devastated World Trade Center 6, the eight-story U.S. Customs building, although no national newspaper, other than American Free Press, has written a word about it.

800 WORKERS WERE EVACUATED FROM WTC 6 12 MINUTES OF THE FIRST PLANE STRIKING THE NORTH TOWER .

That impact caused debris to rain down on the roof of Building 6 which was adjacent to the impacted wall of the tower. Before the smoke had cleared from around the stricken South Tower, a mysterious explosion shot 550 feet into the air above the U.S. Customs House at WTC 6.

FEMA has stated that there was "no data collection" from WTC #6. Interesting that without collecting any data they still managed to put together the official story that this building was destroyed by rubble from the collapse of the North Tower. But if so then one would expect to see the remains of the building covered by rubble. Instead we see a huge crater. Here is a closer look at WTC #6 after it was demolished.

In the PBS program mentioned below, a cleanup worker referred to the demolition of WTC 6; "...well, we're getting ready to "pull" building six." There can be little doubt as to how the word "pull" is being used in this context.

OWNER OF WTC ADMITS EXPLOSIVES WERE USED!

Twin Towers were built with a sequenced internal explosion system. This is legally required in areas where buildings are congested in order to ensure symmetrical collapse when the building ages and is condemned and has to be demolished. Listen to this PBS interview with Larry Silverstein, owner of the WTC, describing how he had Building #7 demolished!

MP3 of Silverstein "Pull It" This admission appeared in a PBS documentary originally aired in Sept. of 2002 entitled "Rebuilding America, A Year at Ground Zero".

"...I remember getting a call from the fire department commander telling me they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire...and I said, 'Well, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life...maybe the smartest thing to do is, is 'pull' it...and they made that decision to 'pull'...uh, and we watched the building collapse."

In the demolition industry, "pull" is the common term they use for demolishing buildings with explosives.

Silverman is talking about how a decision was made between him and the New York Fire Department to 'Pull' the building. And there is no doubt the meanings of his words, captured in context. He is admitting on public TV that a decision was made between him and the NYFD to use a controlled demolition to fell WTC 7 on 911. And all of this AFTER the official FEMA report, costing millions said otherwise, and they had all the experts. (Mr. Silversteins comments stand in direct contradiction to the findings of the extensive FEMA report. They even negate Kevin Spacey's narrative in the very documentary in which they appear; "WTC 7 fell after burning for 7 hours.")

In order to appreciate the severity of this evidence, you must first understand that demolishing a building is not something you can do in a few minutes by tossing explosives into a basement. It actually takes days of planning. First you have to pinpoint all the load-bearing structures, then you have to wire everything and set the cutting charges so they all go off in a pre-destined order. Which means that this demolition was planned long before 9-11!

There's also disturbing correlations between the collapse of WTC 7 and the bombing of the Murrah building in OK City. Both buildings were constructed using the same bridge beam system that, in WTC 7's case, allegedly contributed to its demise. But more importantly WTC 7, like the Murrah building, housed high-level government offices including the FBI, CIA and the Secret Service. WTC 7 was also the storage facility for millions of files pertaining to active cases involving international drug dealing, organized crime, terrorism and money laundering.

WTC 6, also known as the Customs House building, housed the Dept.'s of Commerce, Agriculture and Labor and yet another Murrah building tennant, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/07/292330.shtml

EMPLOYEES WERE EVACUATED FROM WTC 6 RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST PLANE HIT THE NORTH TOWER .

Accounting for Employees

More than 2,800 employees worked in offices leased by the General Services Administration in Buildings 6 and 7 at the World Trade Center complex. Both buildings were also destroyed as a result of the attack. Another 25,000 employees were evacuated from four other nearby office buildings - 26 Federal Plaza, 290 Broadway, 40 Centre Street and 500 Pearl Street.

In the hours following the attacks, officials from the agencies in those buildings worked feverishly to locate employees. But the scope of destruction in lower Manhattan made it difficult to get a firm count of employees who may have been hurt or killed in the attack, says Beatrice Disman, chair of the New York Federal Executive Board, which helps coordinate federal activities and programs in the area. But as of Sept. 20, all of the agencies had accounted for their employees, with the exception of the FBI, which listed one employee as missing.

About 1,000 IRS employees worked in lower Manhattan on the day of the attacks - 180 of them in Buildings 6 and 7 at the World Trade Center, and about 800 in the federal building at 290 Broadway. About a dozen IRS auditors were in the twin towers at the time of the attacks, conducting audits at private firms.

The destruction of the telephone infrastructure operated by Verizon in lower Manhattan cut off communication between IRS officials in Washington and executives in New York until Tuesday night. Spotty phone service made it difficult for IRS executives to track down their employees. Managers called around for two days before everyone was finally accounted for on Wednesday. A Boston IRS employee on assignment in New York was critically injured and remained in serious condition a week later.

Building 6 was home to offices of the Customs Service, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, the Export-Import Bank, the Foreign Commercial Service of the Commerce Department and the Labor Department's Pension and Welfare Benefits Administration.

"I got into work a little after 8 o'clock," says Michael Mabee, a discrimination investigator at the OSHA office. "Sometime after a quarter to nine the lights flickered. Then I heard a sonic boom. Everybody looked confused because it was an unusual thing to hear." OSHA's offices emptied quickly. Once everyone was on the street, Mabee and his peers saw the World Trade Center's north tower engulfed in flames, though it still wasn't clear what had happened. Overhead, an airplane made a beeline for the complex. Mabee watched as it exploded into the south tower. OSHA's employees fled the scene, trying to escape the dust and debris, making their way to the agency's regional office farther north in the Greenwich Village section of Manhattan. After learning that all of his colleagues had made it out safely, Mabee told his supervisor he was going back to the crash site.

"If I didn't try to help, I don't think I could have been able to live with myself," says the former paramedic and police officer. "A lot of the firemen had already been killed. I knew that was where I was needed." Mabee helped set up a field hospital several blocks from the crash site.

Mabee knew that the rescue workers needed to get their eyes flushed to clear away bits of debris. So he and others grabbed their supplies and headed toward ground zero. "Every time we ran into a group of firefighters, we would sit them down and flush their eyes out.

http://www.govexec.com/features/1001/1001spec2.htm

Nice lecture on photography ... Thanks .

I'm not concerned about the reflected light on the astronot or the elongated shadows ... What is anomalous is the shape and position of the shadow which does not match the shape and position of the astronot who is allegedly creating it .

Please provide some evidence of this made up claim.

Here's the evidence that there were explosions in the lobby of WTC 6 before the towers collapsed .... I will see what else I can find on the evacuated employees .

"In an exclusive Killtown interview, Ground Zero EMT Patricia Ondrovic talks about her harrowing day at the WTC on 9/11. Within minutes after the South Tower collapses, she witnessed the WTC 5 blowing up, cars exploding, and explosions inside the lobby of the WTC 6, all the while narrowly escaping with her own life. "

Explosions Inside WTC 6 Lobby

KT: You mentioned you were running west on Vesey Street, what happened after that?

PO: I just kept running. I was aware there were other people running as well. After passing the cars on fire, I was trying to find someplace safe. I tried to run into the lobby of 6 World Trade, but there were federal police -- maybe 4 to 6 of them -- standing in the open doorways. As I tried to run in, they wouldn't let me, waving me out, telling me "you can't come in here, keep running." As I turned to start running west again, I saw a series of flashes around the ceiling of the lobby all going off one-by-one like the X-mass lights that "chase" in pattern. I think I started running faster at that point.

KT: Did you hear any "popping" sounds when each of these flashes in the WTC 6 lobby were going off?

PO: Yes, that part was like a movie. The pops were at the same time as the flashes.

KT: Can you estimate either how many flashes you saw or how many of these "pops" you heard inside this lobby?

PO: At least 6 before I was turned away.

KT: Could you still hear any of these explosions when you turned to run back out, or was the noise outside too loud?

PO: I don't recall hearing any more when I resumed running. It was very chaotic.

KT: Now to be clear, were you inside the Lobby of the WTC 6, or were you outside the building when you witnessed these what appeared to be explosions?

PO: I was in the doorway, but not inside the lobby. I remember being able to breathe the somewhat cleaner air coming from inside the building. They stopped me as I was trying to get past the threshold.

KT: Were the explosions going off as you were entering the lobby area, or did they seem to start going off after the police tried to turn you away?

PO: It all happened at the same time. As I got to the doorway, I was told not to come in. As the officer was telling me I couldn't get in the building the flashes starting going off.

KT: Where the police just right at the lobby door, or were some also way inside the building?

PO: There were probably 4-5 officers in the doorway. I could see a few others back in the lobby area.

KT: You said you saw "federal police." What exactly do you mean and did you find it strange they were in there and that they wouldn't let you in?

PO: Well, they were in light brown uniforms and "Smokey the bear" hats. I assumed they were federal police because NYC police don't look like that and I knew there was a lot of federal offices in the WTC as well as the surrounding area, so it wasn't strange to me to see them there, but I did find it very odd that they wouldn't let me in to get cover. But like I say, in that profession, someone tells you to go an opposite way you are going, you don't ask, you just go. I remember hoping they got out as I was watching whatever the small explosions were, because they stayed in the building. They weren't locking it up after evacuating or anything like that.

KT: Did you know which government agencies were in the WTC?

PO: I knew there were a lot of federal agencies in the WTC complex, but I don't know which ones specifically.

KT: Did these policemen run out of the WTC 6 lobby after these explosions occurred, or could you tell?

PO: It didn't look like they did. It looked like they were there making sure no one ran in like I tried to do. I remember seeing them in the doorway, but don't know what happened to them after that.

KT: Did you happen to notice if they were wearing any earplugs or any other uncommon protective gear?

PO: There was nothing that I could see. They appeared to be dressed to simply do lobby detail. No flack wear, no overcoats, no helmets. To this day, I still wonder if they got out.

KT: Did you think these explosions in the lobby were maybe lights popping out as in an electrical surge, or did they seem more like explosives going off in a timed manner?

PO: I immediately got the impression they were timed explosives. I have never thought they were anything else, not then, not now.

KT: Have you ever seen a building being demolished with explosives on TV and was the flashes and pops similar to that?

PO: It did remind me of just that. I had seen something on a Las Vegas casino being demolished and that's what it reminded me of.

KT: Can you try to describe what these "pops" you heard sounded like?

PO: They sounded like light bulbs popping, but there were no light fixtures where the explosions were coming from. The sound was not all that loud.

KT: Do you think these explosions you witnessed were loud enough to be heard on the street?

PO: Because of everything going on, I don't think these "pops" could have been heard from the street. It was definitely louder outside as a whole.

KT: At the time, who did you think planted these explosives in there?

PO: I didn't have any notions of where to put blame per se, but I remember thinking that it was possibly the same organization who tried to blow up the building back in 1993. I figured they came back to finish the job. At the time I was running, I remember thinking that "they" wired the whole area. At the time I wasn't aware that what made the towers catch fire were passenger jets crashing. I thought the buildings had bombs planted to go off that day. The idea of not only one passenger jet, but two took me a while to comprehend -- not to mention the pentagon as well.

KT: Can you estimate how long after you heard the loud rumbling, which was the South Tower coming down, to when you witnessed these explosives going off in the WTC 6?

PO: Well, remember this was all on the same street I was parked. It is very difficult for me to estimate time with so much happening at once, but I want to say maybe 2 to 3 minutes from the rumbling and the ground, and the cars, and the fires, that I tried to run into 6 WTC for cover, which is when I saw those explosions.

KT: Did anybody else besides you and the police witness these explosions in the WTC 6 lobby?

PO: I imagine there must have been others to see, I wasn't the only one running up the street. I can't imagine being the only person to try to run for cover. I didn't see any "civilians" in the lobby of the 6, just the brown uniformed officers.

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/02/911-r...inside-wtc.html

Got to admit those video stills Matthew posted seem pretty conclusive.

On top of that, there is contradictory evidence in Jack's study itself.

Seems Jack made a simple error in his analysis that led him to a faulty conclusion.

Dave ... The amount of dust cloud that rose into the air at the moment the South tower collapsed was enormous , eventually covering the entire city , along with the dust from the North tower ...

The amount of dust cloud which shows in this still picture is the same amount of dust as when the tower was HIT ... NOT when it collapsed .

The origin of smoke is at the same location as where the plane hit it ... So it is not too low .... The South tower was hit much lower than the North tower .

The long shadows of his legs are simply because his shadow is on a slope, not flat ground, therefore it's greatly elongated.

Oh dear God , not another SLOPE !!

The ground is level ... He is not walking on a slope .. but it's not the elongated part that's the problem .. It's the fact that the postion of the astronot doesn't match the position of the shadow .

Hey , I wonder if Dave has run off to the beach to take some more pictures of shadows ...