Kathleen Collins
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I find it impossible to believe Robert Kennedy was involved in the murder of Marilyn Monroe. What motive would he have had? I know there is this story put about that Marilyn was keeping a diary about her relationship with the two brothers. This story started as a result of a forged CIA document dated 3rd August, 1962.
<span style='color:green'>Wiretap of telephone conversation between reporter Dorothy Kilgallen and her close friend, Howard Rothberg; from wiretap of telephone conversation of Marilyn Monroe and Attorney General Robert Kennedy. Appraisal of Content: (Blacked Out).
1. Rothberg discussed the apparent comeback of subject with Kilgallen and the break up with the Kennedys. Rothberg told Kilgallen that she was attending Hollywood parties hosted by the "inner circle" among Hollywood's elite and was becoming the talk of the town again. Rothberg indicated in so many words, that she had secrets to tell, no doubt arising from her trists (sic) with the President and the Attorney General. One such (illegible) mentions the visit by the President at a secret air base for the purpose of inspecting things from outer space. Kilgallen replied that she knew what might be the source of the visit. In the mid-fifties Kilgallen learned of secret effort by US and UK governments to identify the origins of crashed spacecraft and dead bodies, from a British government official. Kilgallen believed the story may have come from the (illegible) in the late forties. Kilgallen said that if the story is true, it could cause terrible embarrassment to Jack and his plans to have NASA put men on the moon.
2. Subject repeatedly called the Attorney General and complained about the way she was being ignored by the President and his brother.
3. Subject threatened to hold a press conference and would tell all.
4. Subject made references to "bases" in Cuba and knew of the President's plan to kill Castro.
5. Subject made reference to her "diary of secrets" and what the newspapers would do with such disclosures.</span>
Some researchers believed this document and argued that it helped explain both the deaths of Marilyn Monroe and Dorothy Kilgallen (both died in very similar ways).
It is true that both John and Robert Kennedy had brief affairs with Monroe. In fact, it was probably Robert’s only affair and created a lot of problems within his marriage. However, Robert knew that he could not keep the affair a secret. In an interview he gave to Anthony Lewis (published for the first time 1988) he reported that during his brother’s presidency J. Edgar Hoover sent someone around to his office every month given details of information he had on the Kennedy family. This included details of both men’s affairs with Marilyn Monroe. It was indeed the information that Hoover had about JFK relationship with Judith Campbell that eventually convinced him not to retire Hoover as head of the FBI.
Robert Kennedy therefore had no motivation to get personally involved in any plot to kill Monroe. If he had of done, Hoover, who hated RFK with a passion, would have made sure it would have been made public.
Bobby Kennedy should have written the book and the TV show called "How I Would Have Done It, if I had done it."
Kathy
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FYI
Pavane for Princess: No Poison for Marilyn, Shakespearean Dream BY RON ROSENBAUM
What does it mean that our culture entertains two conflicting narratives of Marilyn Monroe’s death? Two conflicting versions of the Marilyn Monroe myth, actually. Suicide blonde, driven to take her life by the fevers of sexual hypocrisy, by the drugs she used to numb the pain of being a victim of Power, of Hollywood, of us? Or a murder victim killed by sinister forces who used a “poisoned enema” to silence her. That’s the alternative raised by the surprising publication, in the Los Angeles Times on Aug. 5, of no less than three pieces that relate to Monroe’s death, one of which (I’m not making this up) suggests that her death was the result of murder by poisoned enema. Yes, that’s the Los Angeles Times, that big daily on the left coast (not Weekly World News), that appeared to some to give credibility to an enema-related conspiracy theory of Marilyn Monroe’s death. The first document was the supposed “transcript” or “notes” of a tape Marilyn made for her psychiatrist. This document got the most attention—mainly, I think, because it discussed Marilyn’s orgasms. But far more sensational is the “personal account” of John W. Miner, the former head of the medical-legal section of the L.A. district attorney’s office, who observed Marilyn’s autopsy, analyzed the medical forensics of her death and supplied his “transcript” of the now-lost Marilyn tape. Mr. Miner’s account concludes with a ringing call to remove Marilyn from her “water-impenetrable crypt” and have her re-autopsied. The Miner “tape transcripts” (let’s call them M1)—his purported notes on a now-lost, long, rambling Marilyn Monroe monologue, based on a tape said to be once in the possession of her psychoanalyst—have been whispered about for years, as well as referred to by journalists such as Seymour Hersh and quoted or paraphrased in a number of books. Mr. Miner presents these notes as evidence against the official verdict on Monroe’s death in August 1962, which the county coroner called a “probable suicide.” Mr. Miner says the tape demonstrated that Marilyn was not suicidal, but rather excited about her plans for the future, including the “Marilyn Monroe Shakespeare Film Festival” (more anon). But Mr. Miner’s theory of how she actually died—the “poisoned enema” conspiracy and what you might call the “Clue of the Purple Colon,” which appears in the second document, Mr. Miner’s “personal account” of his investigation (let’s call this document M2)—is new to me. I guess I hadn’t been paying attention to the cottage industry of M.M. conspiracy theories, which has become an industrial-strength publishing phenomenon. The mainstreaming of a document which concludes that Marilyn Monroe was killed by a “poisoned enema” is, to say the least, a startling development in contemporary culture; it suggests we’ve reached a point where the once-marginal Marilyn-was-murdered conspiracy theories have become almost as credible in the popular imagination (and the mainstream media) as the original narrative. A Conspiracy Taxonomy So I think it’s time to construct a taxonomy of Marilyn Monroe conspiracy theories and examine how the L.A. Times’ startling publication of the Miner documents will inevitably feed into a fevered subculture of uncorroborated theories that do a disservice to the person who once was Marilyn Monroe, a person now increasingly buried by myth and mystification. I’m not suggesting the L.A. Times was wrong to publish them—and there was an accompanying article (M3) that raised some questions about them—but the weight of M1 and M2 is to make a virtual prosecution case for murder. I’d suggest that it’s probably too late to find out the truth with any certitude—there have been so many conflicting and changing stories about what went on the night she died—but I’m interested in what the two narratives tell us about Marilyn and about ourselves, why we choose to believe one or the other. Consider the implications to be found in a compressed version of the suicide narrative (let’s call it N1) that is to be found on the back cover of the paperback of one of the more mainstream Marilyn biographies, the one by Barbara Leaming: “You will come away filled with new respect for Marilyn’s incredible courage, dignity, and loyalty, and an overwhelming sense of tragedy after witnessing Marilyn, powerless to overcome her demons, move inexorably to her own final, terrible betrayal of herself.” Note that it’s “her demons,” “her … terrible betrayal of herself.” Bad as we are, bad as our culture is, she did it, she’s to blame: that “terrible betrayal” of yourself is precisely something you choose and must bear responsibility for, demons or no demons. So that’s N1(TB): suicide by terrible betrayal. Which takes its place alongside the other suicide narrative, N1(WS), suicide because We Suck as a culture in our sick lust for celebrity sex symbols that drives them crazy. “We,” American culture, drove her to it. N1 also has a relatively innocent Kennedy version (as opposed to the ones where they have her snuffed)—let’s call it N1K—a connection not necessarily linked to her death. I think that after the J.F.K./Rat Pack sex-addict stories surfaced, most people who believe in N1 assumed it’s been proven that Marilyn had an affair with J.F.K. The narrative within the narrative of a J.F.K. affair usually pictures the Kennedys afraid that revelation of the affair would scandalize the nation and taint the Presidency. And it seems to be a fact, according to even mainstream N1 biographers, that Marilyn spent nights under the same roof as J.F.K. And although there’s no proof they spent nights under the same sheets, it’s certainly not in the extreme, “poisoned enema” realm of conspiracy-theory possibility to believe they did. I tend to credit the J.F.K. rumors—was there any actress in Hollywood he didn’t sleep with? But with R.F.K. (N1K2), all you have is a Rashomon of versions. Some say they were confidantes, some they were lovers, some that she was obsessed, some that he was obsessed—there are scattered sightings together, he was reported present in L.A. by some the day she died. But no real evidence of anything more than public appearances and private dinners has surfaced. Which brings us to the Marilyn Murder Narrative (N2). I have been mostly skeptical about the many variations of these. I remember when I gently poked fun in print at Norman Mailer when he first nudged it out of the shadows back in the 70’s at a press conference to accompany his attempted metaphysical inflation of the Marilyn myth in a lavishly hollow book that was not his best work. (Mailer later told 60 Minutes he’d changed his mind—that he now thought it was “10 to 1” against conspiracy, but at the time he communicated his irritation with me for doubting the possibility of murder.) But over the years, my resistance to the possibility has been weakened by revelations of just how down and dirty the Kennedy-Teamster war was, by a torrent of books by writers who couldn’t resist the temptation to link Marilyn’s death to the mob, the Kennedys, the alleged wiretap blackmail tapes, sinister psychoanalysts, you name it. And the L.A. Times documents, particularly Mr. Miner’s “personal account” of his investigation (M2), had me going for a while with its firsthand detail. I’m indebted for resisting the temptation to one of the few scrupulously skeptical analyses of Marilyn conspiracy theories you can find on the Web: “The ‘Assassination’ of Marilyn Monroe,” by Mel Ayton, originally published by Crime magazine, July 24, 2005. Still, let’s look at where the L.A. Times documents fit into the second narrative, N2, the murder narrative. Once you start down the N2 road, you find several key branching paths to follow. Initially, one branch—let’s call it N2A—had Marilyn murdered by the Kennedys to silence her about either (N2Asub1) their sexual affairs, or (N2Asub2) secrets she’d learned about the Kennedys’ Castro assassination plots from pillow talk. (Hey, I’m just reporting on what’s out there in the culture; think of me as an anthropologist, your Claude Levi-Strauss of conspiracy-theory studies.) But recently—largely, it seems, through the indefatigable efforts of British Marilyn-conspiracy theorist Matthew Smith—a competing subnarrative has emerged (N2B): Marilyn wasn’t killed by the Kennedys, she was killed by enemies of the Kennedys. (The enema of my enemies is my friend?) Enemies who wanted to embarrass the Kennedys by the torrent of bad publicity that would come out when Marilyn’s death uncovered her illicit relationship with J.F.K. and/or R.F.K. And when this didn’t ensue, Mr. Smith contends, these same Marilyn-murdering conspirators (the usual suspects: renegade C.I.A. guys, along with assets from the military-industrial complex, the Mafia, etc.) went on to kill J.F.K., then R.F.K., and also to ruin Teddy’s political career at Chappaquiddick. In Mr. Smith’s view, Marilyn’s murder is the key fulcrum to the entire history of the past half-century. She was the J.F.K. assassination before the J.F.K. assassination. The Clue of the Purple Colon So much history dependent on an enema, huh? What’s interesting about the Miner memo of his investigation, M2 (which for a time had been made unavailable on the L.A. Times Web site, but try Googling “Miner’s Account of Monroe’s Death”), is that he was there in the morgue on August 1962. He begins, Raymond Chandler style: “For me it began when I looked at the naked body of a 36 year old woman. She was dead. She was beautiful. She was Marilyn Monroe, awaiting her autopsy.” He describes how he and Deputy Medical Examiner Thomas Noguchi “searched her entire body surface and orifices with magnifying glasses to look for any traces of needle injections. He then took smears from her … ”—T.M.I. alert! Then he takes us through his case that Marilyn was murdered by a “poisoned enema.” First, he attempts to disprove the standard N1 theory “that Miss Monroe swallowed a large amount of Nembutal capsules.” She died of a Nembutal overdose, he says, but “without leaving any traces of the drug in her stomach or duodenum …. Even though the stomach contents disappeared [!] … we can conclude this from the fact that, had she taken so many capsules orally, [because of] the yellow coloring of the capsules … there should have been yellow dye stains in the stomach or duodenum. There were no such stains.” So she didn’t swallow the Nembutal, and she wasn’t injected. The only way she could have as much Nembutal as she did in her system, he argues, was through its administration by enema (not suppository—this seems a major forensic point for Mr. Miner). The fact that she had a fatal Nembutal-dosed enema is proven by the Clue of the Purple Colon (he didn’t call it that; I did): the purplish discoloration proving, according to him, that the drugs in the enema had irritated the lining of the colon. His final conclusion: Nembutal capsules were broken open, their contents dissolved in water, and the infusion added to the enema, causing a fatal overdose. “It must be concluded from the medical evidence alone,” Mr. Miner declares in the L.A. Times, “that Marilyn Monroe was killed by person(s) unknown.” Mr. Miner doesn’t join in the speculation about who those unknown person(s) were. In fact, he discounts speculation about the alleged J.F.K. and R.F.K. liaisons being an important factor, citing the “tape transcripts” in which she declares she’d never embarrass the President and that she wasn’t obsessed with R.F.K. But he does suggest the intervention of people with power when he points to “a very strange circumstance: the disappearance of much of the specimen materials that had been submitted for examination. The stomach contents, the organ samples, the smear material somehow all vanished! I know of no other such instance.” Now Mr. Miner’s a serious guy. Back in 1962, in addition to being the D.A.’s medical-forensics liaison to the chief medical examiner, he was an associate clinical professor in the Department of Psychiatry at U.S.C. Medical School. But he does seem to omit a crucial possibility in his conclusion: accidental overdose (N3subAOD). Marilyn had been taking too many pills for too long, and when that happens and tolerance builds up, the line between maintenance dose and overdose is dangerously thin. As a reporter, I’ve investigated cases in which people died that way. And for all we know, Marilyn—who expresses a fondness for the health benefits of enemas in the “tape transcripts”—may have infused her own enema with pills and miscalculated. And there’s the possibility that the other drug found in her system had a synergistic effect with whatever amount of Nembutal she’d taken. That was chloral hydrate, which Mr. Miner describes somewhat pejoratively as “a knock-out drug popularly referred to as a ‘Mickey Finn.’ It is infrequently prescribed for insomnia.” “Infrequently prescribed” means it sometimes was prescribed for insomnia, not always given with homicidal intent. It seems possible to me that she didn’t necessarily have the intent to commit suicide, although building up a near-fatal barbiturate tolerance is certainly a cry for help. Nor is it necessary to believe that someone “poisoned” her enema by (as M2 describes it) breaking open a lot of Nembutal capsules, dissolving them in water and adding them to the enema infusion. So Mr. Miner omits the accidental-overdose possibility (N3subAOD), which would throw both N1 and N2 into doubt. But he does rather pointedly, if you read M1 and M2 closely, add in a fourth possibility: The maid did it (N2TMDI). In M1 (are you following this? That’s the so-called “tape notes”), Marilyn talks about wanting to fire her housekeeper. And in M2 (his “personal account”), Mr. Miner tells us the maid admitted to mysteriously doing a load in the washing machine at Marilyn’s place at midnight on the night of the death—behavior, Mr. Miner implies, that might be connected with laundering away the “poisoned enema” evidence. If the N1 narrative (Marilyn driven to suicide) can be used to blame Monroe herself, to blame society, to blame us, the N2 narratives (Marilyn was murdered) tell a different story. In effect, they exculpate us, our culture, our stupid values, and place the blame for the tragedy on a few sinister powerful individuals. We’re good, Marilyn was good, our culture isn’t that bad. And they—the unknown assassins of Marilyn—are the locus of evil in our world. Farewell, Cleopatra I don’t know what to make of M1, the supposed “tape transcript” or notes. (Mr. Miner said that Marilyn’s psychiatrist, Dr. Ralph Greenson, played the tape for him in 1962 to prove she wasn’t suicidal. Mr. Miner says he’s releasing his transcript now to counter conspiracy theories that Greenson was involved in her murder.) The document that the L.A. Times published is what Mr. Miner (now 86) claims were his notes off those tapes, taken not while they were being played, but from memory afterward, although how long afterward he was vague about when repeatedly questioned about the timing of his “note taking” on MSNBC’s Dan Abrams show. Yet there are a number of features of the “transcript” that sound intimate or goofy enough to be real. In particular, Monroe’s meditations on literature: her claim, for instance, that Molly Bloom’s soliloquy in Ulysses gave her the idea of making this confessional free-association tape. Yes, there’s a lot of talk about movie stars: Clark Gable, Joan Crawford, her ex-husbands—all pretty boring to me. There’s ambiguous talk which could be interpreted as her promising to be discreet about an affair with J.F.K., and some emotional attachment she claimed that R.F.K. had for her, almost all of which has the slightly shopworn ring of book-proposal material (the tour of the husbands, what Arthur Miller was like in bed). But then there’s her purported Shakespeare fantasy, which is naïve, endearing, earnest and slightly daffy—the appealing qualities that made Marilyn Monroe seem more than a blonde bombshell. Apparently, according to Mr. Miner’s notes of Marilyn “free associating,” she badgered Laurence Olivier to agree to give her Shakespeare lessons if she would first spend a year studying Shakespearean “basics” with acting guru Lee Strasberg. But Mr. Miner’s notes at this point seem to capture something hard to make up: After she claims to have “thrown all [her] pills in the toilet,” she tells Greenson on this purported tape (which has disappeared or been destroyed), “I’ve read all of Shakespeare and practiced a lot of lines. I won’t have to worry about the scripts. I’ll have the greatest script writer who ever lived working for me and I don’t have to pay him.” She goes on to entertain the absurd notion that she could play 14-year-old Juliet at her age, 36. (“Don’t laugh,” she wisely admonishes.) But adds: “I’ve some wonderful ideas for Lady Macbeth and Queen Gertrude”—somewhat more plausible roles. She tells us she plans to “produce and act in the Marilyn Monroe Shakespeare Film Festival.” There’s a touching earnestness to it that’s hard to fake. Actually, she was probably born to play Cleopatra, world-renowned sex symbol. Indeed, in a way, she did “play Cleopatra” in the popular imagination (and both women died of poison). In Shakespeare, Cleopatra is the iconic sexual distraction from affairs of state that led to the downfall of one of the three pillars of the world—in Cleopatra’s case, Mark Antony; in Marilyn conspiracy theory, it’s J.F.K. There’s a further Shakespearean resonance of another kind to all of this. I’m just finishing revising a chapter of my book on Shakespeare scholarly controversies, a chapter that deals with the “revision” question in King Lear. (I’m sure you all read my detailed treatment of the “revisions” in Hamlet in the May 13, 2002, New Yorker.) The Lear chapter focuses on the two endings of Lear, or more precisely the two versions we have of Lear’s last words. One school of scholars argues that the 1608 Quarto version of Lear, which ends with Lear crying out “Break, heart, I prithee break”—usually interpreted as a cry for self-annihilation—is a more explicitly suicidal version of Lear’s end than the 1623 Folio version. That version, beloved of readers, actors and directors, is more ambiguous, giving us a Lear who dies—perhaps—thinking he has seen signs that his beloved daughter Cordelia still has breath in her: “Look on her! Look her lips, / Look there, look there!” If the first ending implies suicide, the second implies a delusion or fantasy of renewed life. The problem is that the scholarly controversy over whether Shakespeare revised Hamlet and Lear—and what changes can be proven to be his and not that of contemporary interlopers, compositors, theater managers, actors, etc.—is still an unresolved, and perhaps unresolvable, debate (as certain Shakespearean biographers fail to acknowledge). And so we are left in doubt about the two versions of Lear’s last words. Two different endings, two possible narratives. Here, as with Marilyn Monroe’s death, we must entertain what Keats called, in reference to Shakespeare, “negative capability”: entertaining two or more conflicting possibilities in the absence of certainty. I doubt Marilyn was murdered. I’m not even sure she intended to commit suicide. I don’t know if her body should be disinterred for re-autopsy, but I think her persona should be disinterred from uncorroborated conspiracy theory. And I wish she’d had the chance to play Cleopatra. Just sub a poisoned enema for the asp. You may reach Ron Rosenbaum via email at: rrosenbaum@observer.com .This column ran on page 1 in the 8/29/2005 edition of The New York Observer.
In my opinion, Marilyn Monroe was murdered after Bobby Kennedy left. Either a hitman from the mob or some govt agency who hoped Kennedy would be blamed for the murder.
Eunice Murray was a devout xxxx. She wrote a book on Marilyn with Rose Shade around 1975. Never did she speak about what really happened the night Marilyn died. She was just cashing in on the Monroe mania elicited by Norman Mailer's book, Marilyn.
And as far as Norman Jeffries is concerned, the guy is dead. It's a great thing to tell an audience Jeffries said this, Jeffries said that. The man who wrote that particular book waited for Eunice and Jeffries to die and decided to write a book quoting them as to Bobby Kennedy killing Marilyn. This is bull----.
Also the part about Miner reciting from memory long passages of Shakespeare Marilyn supposedly quoted is a crock, in my opinion. He's trying to make money off of her, like Slatzer did.
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I used to have dreams constantly about preventing the following people from being killed. And I could never get there in time, so was left in the dark.
President Kennedy
Marilyn Monroe
Karyn Kupcinet
When I pass away, probably the first thing I'm going to ask God is:
Who killed Karyn Kupcinet?
Also, I'd like to have prevented 9-11, or else find out what happened to the real passengers.
I would love to relive Beatlemania, just as I did at ages 8-10. (BTW, I'm an American.)
And if I could come back as any person in history, I'd like to be Mick Jagger.
Kathy
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The most curious address of all for DONALD O. NORTON
is the one on COSTA BRAVA in Las Vegas, which is identical address
to a CIA safehouse which was the same address as ART SWANSON,
"JFK researcher" and admitted CIA "former employee".
Armstrong's research established that this "safehouse" is owned
by neither Swanson nor Norton...but by a bank believed to be
a CIA front in St. Louis.
I believe Donald O. Norton is likely Robert's brother. I don't know
who Donald P. Norton may have been.
Someone ought to research the TWO NORTONS in depth. It might
just be the key to cracking the case.
Jack
Donald O. Norton has a brother who worked in Army Intelligence. I believe. Donald was in the service. Both these men are natural redheads. At thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com
in the archive Sept '05 and thereabouts, you can read and see photos of the Norton's and unmistakenly Ralph Geb -- the file was opening slowly and I saw that name. I never heard of him before, but wrote it down. Turns out he was involved in the Assassination and probably knew Norton.
Kathy
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In that letter the prisoner said he could prove there was a "Harvey" - Ruby link.
Curious that he called him Harvey before there ever was a thought of there being a "Lee" as well as a "Harvey" Oswald.
*********************************************************************
I think calling LHO "Harvey" is very telling. Refer to Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong. I think they still sell the book at jfkresearch.com.
Kathy
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Since there's so much speculation and effort going toward determining the veracity of the Z-film, I wonder if it would be helpful to create a 3-D version of it to see if the motion remains fluid, if any anomalies pop out, etc.
Is there anyone out there who knows how to take a quality version of the Z-film and transform it into a 3-D film?
Couldn't refrain -- Will we have to wear those cardboard glasses to see it?
Kathy
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Jack, Please urge him at some time soon to consider putting all the 'rest' of his information into some form for distribution!.....it is too important to not be 'out' there...even if it needs more confirmation to be iron-clad!!! We need it to follow-up on those leads....or he needs to.
Peter, Save your breath, Armstrong isn't listening.
I first met him in the back dinning room of the Egyptian Lounge in Dallas over a COPA conference weekend and sat across the table from him. I supported his thesis and made mention of Trotski's assassin Raymond Mercader and his brothers as a family of agents put together by the KBB as a good example of what he was trying to prove about Oswald.
Shortly before his book went to press, I met an ex-USMC who had served with Oswald in Japan who said that the Oswald Ruby killed in Dallas wasn't the same Oswald he served with at Atsugi. I wrote a story about it for the local paper and sent a copy to John via Jack and it was included in a short note in the book.
I know a few others researchers who were closer to Armstrong and have been to his house and were impressed with the volume of documents he had stacked.
I would suggest that Armstrong follow Tony Summer's example and donate his research material to the Assassination Archives and Research Center in DC or another college collection like Baylor has been collecting Penn Jones and the College in Maryland that has Harold Weisberg's material.
But others who know JA better say he is also an egotistical jerk who has no interest in supporting other research.
BK
Curious. John Armstrong is more of a phantom than Donald Norton.
Kathy
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I have a DVD that has footage of Jada being at a local news station. She didn't appear nervous. This was after Ruby shot Oswald or the next day. I think she called Ruby a maniac. And she had her teased hair piled up in all directions.
Kathy
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Good stuff, Ian.
James
As for Shari Angel, she's a real piece of work and could probably answer a lot of these questions, though her reliabitliy factor would come into play. I met her at the Dallas airport where I had flown in from Philly on the same plane with one of Bob Groden's kids. Bob drove a new van which included me, his son, Shari Angel and a couple other shaddy characters. Shari had a fake mink stole and a little yapper dog who she said was related to the same pups Jack had, and gave away as pets to special friends - like Mickey Cohen's girlfriend. When we got to the hotel, I tried to pretend I wasn't with them when the dog started doing his dutty all over the lobby, and some guy in a suit and tie got off the elevator and stepped directly in it. Ruby's curse is still active.
BK
I didn't know you were from Dallas and knew some of these people. But you had me in stitches with the part about Shari Angel and her dog and you trying not to be with them.
Kathy
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Donald O. Norton:
Here are 2 buildings at the addresses of Anoka Ave and a doctor's office at W. Pleasant St in Avon Park, FL via Google Earth.
Kathy
That roof on this Google Earth is not a real roof, but a computer generated one...why?
I went back and looked again, and the roof does appear to be faked. Whey would anybody
put a fake roof on this building?
Jack
It's like we all download Google Earth and then we're able to put things in our own program where they aren't. I'm not sure.
But they protect major cities with white roofs and structures. They don't put things there that aren't there. I'm sure I've used Earth offline. So I think it's a personal thing.
Kathy
Google bought the 3D program Sketch-Up and issued Sketch-Up Free, then created a plug-in that allows people to create 3D structures and "place" them in Google Earth. It appears to me that that's what is being seen in the image. Whether there is a way to overide such user-placed 3D creations or not is something I haven't bothered finding out.
It talks about placing such things in Google Earth at the bottom of the left column on this page.
Ashton
You are right. First of all, it has to be online to update it. And I found just what you said. Someone put a building at 26 degrees 57'13.58 North and 80 degrees 50'46.34 West. If you click on the i there, it tells about this man who wanted to put things on Google Earth that are artistic. And he planted one. I don't like this idea. If he wants to paint a picture, find a canvas.
Kathy
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Donald O. Norton:
Here are 2 buildings at the addresses of Anoka Ave and a doctor's office at W. Pleasant St in Avon Park, FL via Google Earth.
Kathy
That roof on this Google Earth is not a real roof, but a computer generated one...why?
I went back and looked again, and the roof does appear to be faked. Whey would anybody
put a fake roof on this building?
Jack
It's like we all download Google Earth and then we're able to put things in our own program where they aren't. I'm not sure.
But they protect major cities with white roofs and structures. They don't put things there that aren't there. I'm sure I've used Earth offline. So I think it's a personal thing.
Kathy
Google bought the 3D program Sketch-Up and issued Sketch-Up Free, then created a plug-in that allows people to create 3D structures and "place" them in Google Earth. It appears to me that that's what is being seen in the image. Whether there is a way to overide such user-placed 3D creations or not is something I haven't bothered finding out.
It talks about placing such things in Google Earth at the bottom of the left column on this page.
Ashton
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Donald O. Norton:
Here are 2 buildings at the addresses of Anoka Ave and a doctor's office at W. Pleasant St in Avon Park, FL via Google Earth.
Kathy
That roof on this Google Earth is not a real roof, but a computer generated one...why?
I don't know what you mean -- computer-generated. Google Earth is free. Sometimes it may be off a bit and show a different building nearby. Earth whites out buildings in big cities like NY. But you can see their shapes and still look at them and the area. A lot of countries don't want to be depicted, so all you'll find there is blurry green or sand color.
Surprisingly, they show Area 51, which amazed me. Because they'd kill you if you went past the No Trespassing sign, but you can see them from above? They even show the entrance into the mountain! Then I read somewhere that Area 51 had moved. This individual stated they went further into the desert. By the way, Area 51 was radioactive.
Anyway, do you have a theory why the roof of the doctor's building is computer-generated?
Kathy
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I suppose I'm just going to have to cave and buy Armstrong's book. This stuff if just too bloody interesting not to follow up on it.
A wise decision John. Harvey & Lee is an indispensable work in my opinion. Plus, its likely to be a good investment.
A copy of Armstrong's 1997 Dallas presentation is selling for $275.
The book comes in a box or sleeve. Also, there is a CD that shows all kinds of legal records from FBI, etc. And photos of Oswald. Which is Lee (who got away) or Harvey?
Kathy
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I suppose I'm just going to have to cave and buy Armstrong's book. This stuff if just too bloody interesting not to follow up on it.
John
John, go to jfkresearch.com and you can get the info there about the book. It may be on eBay too.
Kathleen Collins
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Dear Robin,
Welcome to this forum.
Is there anything you can tell us related to the Kennedy Assassination? Do you feel Phil Graham was murdered? Why and who was behind it?
His death, as described in Katherine's book (as sudden and mysterious as Hunter S. Thompson's death years later) is suspicious. What do you think happened? Then President Kennedy was killed 3 or so months after Graham. Same forces?
Can you tell us anything about Mary Meyer Pinchot?
Kathy
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Bill, I don't want to harrass someone, and I was surprised when you said I was "stalking" Norton -- that's Donald O. Norton.
But I want to thank you for your info on Donald P. Norton. I knew about him, but you provided me with a great more detail. He's a different man than Donald O.
Donald O. identified himself as Lee Oswald to Mae Brussel and witnesses. He went to Mae's house with the others and recited Harvey's former radio interview about Russia word for word.
Since I learned there were 2 men sharing LHO's identity, I know Harvey was shot by Ruby, and Lee disappeared. Is he Donald O. Norton? Doesn't look like Lee, but he claimed he was.
I think that his using 2 addresses, both of which are in 2 different places in Avon Park, and the number is 1006 and the doctor's address is 1006, very interesting. These are public records.
Kathy
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Kathleen,
Why are you stalking this guy again?
There's another Don Norton on the Outer Banks.
BK
Bill, Donald O. Norton is a figure in the Kennedy Assassination. To what extent, only John Armstrong knows. He pretended to be Lee Oswald. He knows things he's not telling. And when Robert Oswald gets on TV, he gleams as he tells the public what a dipxxxx his brother was. Robert claims to be Oswald's brother. He is not. The more we search for truth, the more we can understand what happened November 22, 1963. Norton claimed to be Lee Oswald to Mae Brussels. Weren't you there when he approached her? Are you feeling sorry for him?
Kathy
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FYI
Pavane for Princess: No Poison for Marilyn, Shakespearean Dream BY RON ROSENBAUM
What does it mean that our culture entertains two conflicting narratives of Marilyn Monroe’s death? Two conflicting versions of the Marilyn Monroe myth, actually. Suicide blonde, driven to take her life by the fevers of sexual hypocrisy, by the drugs she used to numb the pain of being a victim of Power, of Hollywood, of us? Or a murder victim killed by sinister forces who used a “poisoned enema” to silence her. That’s the alternative raised by the surprising publication, in the Los Angeles Times on Aug. 5, of no less than three pieces that relate to Monroe’s death, one of which (I’m not making this up) suggests that her death was the result of murder by poisoned enema. Yes, that’s the Los Angeles Times, that big daily on the left coast (not Weekly World News), that appeared to some to give credibility to an enema-related conspiracy theory of Marilyn Monroe’s death. The first document was the supposed “transcript” or “notes” of a tape Marilyn made for her psychiatrist. This document got the most attention—mainly, I think, because it discussed Marilyn’s orgasms. But far more sensational is the “personal account” of John W. Miner, the former head of the medical-legal section of the L.A. district attorney’s office, who observed Marilyn’s autopsy, analyzed the medical forensics of her death and supplied his “transcript” of the now-lost Marilyn tape. Mr. Miner’s account concludes with a ringing call to remove Marilyn from her “water-impenetrable crypt” and have her re-autopsied. The Miner “tape transcripts” (let’s call them M1)—his purported notes on a now-lost, long, rambling Marilyn Monroe monologue, based on a tape said to be once in the possession of her psychoanalyst—have been whispered about for years, as well as referred to by journalists such as Seymour Hersh and quoted or paraphrased in a number of books. Mr. Miner presents these notes as evidence against the official verdict on Monroe’s death in August 1962, which the county coroner called a “probable suicide.” Mr. Miner says the tape demonstrated that Marilyn was not suicidal, but rather excited about her plans for the future, including the “Marilyn Monroe Shakespeare Film Festival” (more anon). But Mr. Miner’s theory of how she actually died—the “poisoned enema” conspiracy and what you might call the “Clue of the Purple Colon,” which appears in the second document, Mr. Miner’s “personal account” of his investigation (let’s call this document M2)—is new to me. I guess I hadn’t been paying attention to the cottage industry of M.M. conspiracy theories, which has become an industrial-strength publishing phenomenon. The mainstreaming of a document which concludes that Marilyn Monroe was killed by a “poisoned enema” is, to say the least, a startling development in contemporary culture; it suggests we’ve reached a point where the once-marginal Marilyn-was-murdered conspiracy theories have become almost as credible in the popular imagination (and the mainstream media) as the original narrative. A Conspiracy Taxonomy So I think it’s time to construct a taxonomy of Marilyn Monroe conspiracy theories and examine how the L.A. Times’ startling publication of the Miner documents will inevitably feed into a fevered subculture of uncorroborated theories that do a disservice to the person who once was Marilyn Monroe, a person now increasingly buried by myth and mystification. I’m not suggesting the L.A. Times was wrong to publish them—and there was an accompanying article (M3) that raised some questions about them—but the weight of M1 and M2 is to make a virtual prosecution case for murder. I’d suggest that it’s probably too late to find out the truth with any certitude—there have been so many conflicting and changing stories about what went on the night she died—but I’m interested in what the two narratives tell us about Marilyn and about ourselves, why we choose to believe one or the other. Consider the implications to be found in a compressed version of the suicide narrative (let’s call it N1) that is to be found on the back cover of the paperback of one of the more mainstream Marilyn biographies, the one by Barbara Leaming: “You will come away filled with new respect for Marilyn’s incredible courage, dignity, and loyalty, and an overwhelming sense of tragedy after witnessing Marilyn, powerless to overcome her demons, move inexorably to her own final, terrible betrayal of herself.” Note that it’s “her demons,” “her … terrible betrayal of herself.” Bad as we are, bad as our culture is, she did it, she’s to blame: that “terrible betrayal” of yourself is precisely something you choose and must bear responsibility for, demons or no demons. So that’s N1(TB): suicide by terrible betrayal. Which takes its place alongside the other suicide narrative, N1(WS), suicide because We Suck as a culture in our sick lust for celebrity sex symbols that drives them crazy. “We,” American culture, drove her to it. N1 also has a relatively innocent Kennedy version (as opposed to the ones where they have her snuffed)—let’s call it N1K—a connection not necessarily linked to her death. I think that after the J.F.K./Rat Pack sex-addict stories surfaced, most people who believe in N1 assumed it’s been proven that Marilyn had an affair with J.F.K. The narrative within the narrative of a J.F.K. affair usually pictures the Kennedys afraid that revelation of the affair would scandalize the nation and taint the Presidency. And it seems to be a fact, according to even mainstream N1 biographers, that Marilyn spent nights under the same roof as J.F.K. And although there’s no proof they spent nights under the same sheets, it’s certainly not in the extreme, “poisoned enema” realm of conspiracy-theory possibility to believe they did. I tend to credit the J.F.K. rumors—was there any actress in Hollywood he didn’t sleep with? But with R.F.K. (N1K2), all you have is a Rashomon of versions. Some say they were confidantes, some they were lovers, some that she was obsessed, some that he was obsessed—there are scattered sightings together, he was reported present in L.A. by some the day she died. But no real evidence of anything more than public appearances and private dinners has surfaced. Which brings us to the Marilyn Murder Narrative (N2). I have been mostly skeptical about the many variations of these. I remember when I gently poked fun in print at Norman Mailer when he first nudged it out of the shadows back in the 70’s at a press conference to accompany his attempted metaphysical inflation of the Marilyn myth in a lavishly hollow book that was not his best work. (Mailer later told 60 Minutes he’d changed his mind—that he now thought it was “10 to 1” against conspiracy, but at the time he communicated his irritation with me for doubting the possibility of murder.) But over the years, my resistance to the possibility has been weakened by revelations of just how down and dirty the Kennedy-Teamster war was, by a torrent of books by writers who couldn’t resist the temptation to link Marilyn’s death to the mob, the Kennedys, the alleged wiretap blackmail tapes, sinister psychoanalysts, you name it. And the L.A. Times documents, particularly Mr. Miner’s “personal account” of his investigation (M2), had me going for a while with its firsthand detail. I’m indebted for resisting the temptation to one of the few scrupulously skeptical analyses of Marilyn conspiracy theories you can find on the Web: “The ‘Assassination’ of Marilyn Monroe,” by Mel Ayton, originally published by Crime magazine, July 24, 2005. Still, let’s look at where the L.A. Times documents fit into the second narrative, N2, the murder narrative. Once you start down the N2 road, you find several key branching paths to follow. Initially, one branch—let’s call it N2A—had Marilyn murdered by the Kennedys to silence her about either (N2Asub1) their sexual affairs, or (N2Asub2) secrets she’d learned about the Kennedys’ Castro assassination plots from pillow talk. (Hey, I’m just reporting on what’s out there in the culture; think of me as an anthropologist, your Claude Levi-Strauss of conspiracy-theory studies.) But recently—largely, it seems, through the indefatigable efforts of British Marilyn-conspiracy theorist Matthew Smith—a competing subnarrative has emerged (N2B): Marilyn wasn’t killed by the Kennedys, she was killed by enemies of the Kennedys. (The enema of my enemies is my friend?) Enemies who wanted to embarrass the Kennedys by the torrent of bad publicity that would come out when Marilyn’s death uncovered her illicit relationship with J.F.K. and/or R.F.K. And when this didn’t ensue, Mr. Smith contends, these same Marilyn-murdering conspirators (the usual suspects: renegade C.I.A. guys, along with assets from the military-industrial complex, the Mafia, etc.) went on to kill J.F.K., then R.F.K., and also to ruin Teddy’s political career at Chappaquiddick. In Mr. Smith’s view, Marilyn’s murder is the key fulcrum to the entire history of the past half-century. She was the J.F.K. assassination before the J.F.K. assassination. The Clue of the Purple Colon So much history dependent on an enema, huh? What’s interesting about the Miner memo of his investigation, M2 (which for a time had been made unavailable on the L.A. Times Web site, but try Googling “Miner’s Account of Monroe’s Death”), is that he was there in the morgue on August 1962. He begins, Raymond Chandler style: “For me it began when I looked at the naked body of a 36 year old woman. She was dead. She was beautiful. She was Marilyn Monroe, awaiting her autopsy.” He describes how he and Deputy Medical Examiner Thomas Noguchi “searched her entire body surface and orifices with magnifying glasses to look for any traces of needle injections. He then took smears from her … ”—T.M.I. alert! Then he takes us through his case that Marilyn was murdered by a “poisoned enema.” First, he attempts to disprove the standard N1 theory “that Miss Monroe swallowed a large amount of Nembutal capsules.” She died of a Nembutal overdose, he says, but “without leaving any traces of the drug in her stomach or duodenum …. Even though the stomach contents disappeared [!] … we can conclude this from the fact that, had she taken so many capsules orally, [because of] the yellow coloring of the capsules … there should have been yellow dye stains in the stomach or duodenum. There were no such stains.” So she didn’t swallow the Nembutal, and she wasn’t injected. The only way she could have as much Nembutal as she did in her system, he argues, was through its administration by enema (not suppository—this seems a major forensic point for Mr. Miner). The fact that she had a fatal Nembutal-dosed enema is proven by the Clue of the Purple Colon (he didn’t call it that; I did): the purplish discoloration proving, according to him, that the drugs in the enema had irritated the lining of the colon. His final conclusion: Nembutal capsules were broken open, their contents dissolved in water, and the infusion added to the enema, causing a fatal overdose. “It must be concluded from the medical evidence alone,” Mr. Miner declares in the L.A. Times, “that Marilyn Monroe was killed by person(s) unknown.” Mr. Miner doesn’t join in the speculation about who those unknown person(s) were. In fact, he discounts speculation about the alleged J.F.K. and R.F.K. liaisons being an important factor, citing the “tape transcripts” in which she declares she’d never embarrass the President and that she wasn’t obsessed with R.F.K. But he does suggest the intervention of people with power when he points to “a very strange circumstance: the disappearance of much of the specimen materials that had been submitted for examination. The stomach contents, the organ samples, the smear material somehow all vanished! I know of no other such instance.” Now Mr. Miner’s a serious guy. Back in 1962, in addition to being the D.A.’s medical-forensics liaison to the chief medical examiner, he was an associate clinical professor in the Department of Psychiatry at U.S.C. Medical School. But he does seem to omit a crucial possibility in his conclusion: accidental overdose (N3subAOD). Marilyn had been taking too many pills for too long, and when that happens and tolerance builds up, the line between maintenance dose and overdose is dangerously thin. As a reporter, I’ve investigated cases in which people died that way. And for all we know, Marilyn—who expresses a fondness for the health benefits of enemas in the “tape transcripts”—may have infused her own enema with pills and miscalculated. And there’s the possibility that the other drug found in her system had a synergistic effect with whatever amount of Nembutal she’d taken. That was chloral hydrate, which Mr. Miner describes somewhat pejoratively as “a knock-out drug popularly referred to as a ‘Mickey Finn.’ It is infrequently prescribed for insomnia.” “Infrequently prescribed” means it sometimes was prescribed for insomnia, not always given with homicidal intent. It seems possible to me that she didn’t necessarily have the intent to commit suicide, although building up a near-fatal barbiturate tolerance is certainly a cry for help. Nor is it necessary to believe that someone “poisoned” her enema by (as M2 describes it) breaking open a lot of Nembutal capsules, dissolving them in water and adding them to the enema infusion. So Mr. Miner omits the accidental-overdose possibility (N3subAOD), which would throw both N1 and N2 into doubt. But he does rather pointedly, if you read M1 and M2 closely, add in a fourth possibility: The maid did it (N2TMDI). In M1 (are you following this? That’s the so-called “tape notes”), Marilyn talks about wanting to fire her housekeeper. And in M2 (his “personal account”), Mr. Miner tells us the maid admitted to mysteriously doing a load in the washing machine at Marilyn’s place at midnight on the night of the death—behavior, Mr. Miner implies, that might be connected with laundering away the “poisoned enema” evidence. If the N1 narrative (Marilyn driven to suicide) can be used to blame Monroe herself, to blame society, to blame us, the N2 narratives (Marilyn was murdered) tell a different story. In effect, they exculpate us, our culture, our stupid values, and place the blame for the tragedy on a few sinister powerful individuals. We’re good, Marilyn was good, our culture isn’t that bad. And they—the unknown assassins of Marilyn—are the locus of evil in our world. Farewell, Cleopatra I don’t know what to make of M1, the supposed “tape transcript” or notes. (Mr. Miner said that Marilyn’s psychiatrist, Dr. Ralph Greenson, played the tape for him in 1962 to prove she wasn’t suicidal. Mr. Miner says he’s releasing his transcript now to counter conspiracy theories that Greenson was involved in her murder.) The document that the L.A. Times published is what Mr. Miner (now 86) claims were his notes off those tapes, taken not while they were being played, but from memory afterward, although how long afterward he was vague about when repeatedly questioned about the timing of his “note taking” on MSNBC’s Dan Abrams show. Yet there are a number of features of the “transcript” that sound intimate or goofy enough to be real. In particular, Monroe’s meditations on literature: her claim, for instance, that Molly Bloom’s soliloquy in Ulysses gave her the idea of making this confessional free-association tape. Yes, there’s a lot of talk about movie stars: Clark Gable, Joan Crawford, her ex-husbands—all pretty boring to me. There’s ambiguous talk which could be interpreted as her promising to be discreet about an affair with J.F.K., and some emotional attachment she claimed that R.F.K. had for her, almost all of which has the slightly shopworn ring of book-proposal material (the tour of the husbands, what Arthur Miller was like in bed). But then there’s her purported Shakespeare fantasy, which is naïve, endearing, earnest and slightly daffy—the appealing qualities that made Marilyn Monroe seem more than a blonde bombshell. Apparently, according to Mr. Miner’s notes of Marilyn “free associating,” she badgered Laurence Olivier to agree to give her Shakespeare lessons if she would first spend a year studying Shakespearean “basics” with acting guru Lee Strasberg. But Mr. Miner’s notes at this point seem to capture something hard to make up: After she claims to have “thrown all [her] pills in the toilet,” she tells Greenson on this purported tape (which has disappeared or been destroyed), “I’ve read all of Shakespeare and practiced a lot of lines. I won’t have to worry about the scripts. I’ll have the greatest script writer who ever lived working for me and I don’t have to pay him.” She goes on to entertain the absurd notion that she could play 14-year-old Juliet at her age, 36. (“Don’t laugh,” she wisely admonishes.) But adds: “I’ve some wonderful ideas for Lady Macbeth and Queen Gertrude”—somewhat more plausible roles. She tells us she plans to “produce and act in the Marilyn Monroe Shakespeare Film Festival.” There’s a touching earnestness to it that’s hard to fake. Actually, she was probably born to play Cleopatra, world-renowned sex symbol. Indeed, in a way, she did “play Cleopatra” in the popular imagination (and both women died of poison). In Shakespeare, Cleopatra is the iconic sexual distraction from affairs of state that led to the downfall of one of the three pillars of the world—in Cleopatra’s case, Mark Antony; in Marilyn conspiracy theory, it’s J.F.K. There’s a further Shakespearean resonance of another kind to all of this. I’m just finishing revising a chapter of my book on Shakespeare scholarly controversies, a chapter that deals with the “revision” question in King Lear. (I’m sure you all read my detailed treatment of the “revisions” in Hamlet in the May 13, 2002, New Yorker.) The Lear chapter focuses on the two endings of Lear, or more precisely the two versions we have of Lear’s last words. One school of scholars argues that the 1608 Quarto version of Lear, which ends with Lear crying out “Break, heart, I prithee break”—usually interpreted as a cry for self-annihilation—is a more explicitly suicidal version of Lear’s end than the 1623 Folio version. That version, beloved of readers, actors and directors, is more ambiguous, giving us a Lear who dies—perhaps—thinking he has seen signs that his beloved daughter Cordelia still has breath in her: “Look on her! Look her lips, / Look there, look there!” If the first ending implies suicide, the second implies a delusion or fantasy of renewed life. The problem is that the scholarly controversy over whether Shakespeare revised Hamlet and Lear—and what changes can be proven to be his and not that of contemporary interlopers, compositors, theater managers, actors, etc.—is still an unresolved, and perhaps unresolvable, debate (as certain Shakespearean biographers fail to acknowledge). And so we are left in doubt about the two versions of Lear’s last words. Two different endings, two possible narratives. Here, as with Marilyn Monroe’s death, we must entertain what Keats called, in reference to Shakespeare, “negative capability”: entertaining two or more conflicting possibilities in the absence of certainty. I doubt Marilyn was murdered. I’m not even sure she intended to commit suicide. I don’t know if her body should be disinterred for re-autopsy, but I think her persona should be disinterred from uncorroborated conspiracy theory. And I wish she’d had the chance to play Cleopatra. Just sub a poisoned enema for the asp. You may reach Ron Rosenbaum via email at: rrosenbaum@observer.com .This column ran on page 1 in the 8/29/2005 edition of The New York Observer.
Don't believe everything you read. I can't imagine old Mr. Minor, looking back on a tape he heard of her. Writing it down that night with Monroe's spirit in his room, feeding him the lines. It's a crock. How could Minor write whole passages of Shakespeare from memory?
He copied them out of a book.
As far as Monroe's death was concerned, I too believe in the enema story. How to explain a purple, uninspected colon.
I would have liked to have seen her as Ophelia. Someone once said that Jackie Kennedy's voice sounded like Marilyn Monroe playing Ophelia.
These books that have come out -- they're just rehashing the whole saga without any proof.
Kathy
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Donald O. Norton:
Here are 2 buildings at the addresses of Anoka Ave and a doctor's office at W. Pleasant St in Avon Park, FL via Google Earth.
Kathy
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It seems Donald O. Norton, unlike Joltin' Joe, has not left and gone away. I have 3 new addresses for him in Avon Park, FL.
Donald O. Norton
1006 Percy Ave
Avon Pk, FL
Donald O. Norton
1006 Anoka Ave (as of March 1, 2005)
Avon Park, FL
Then there's a doctor listed:
Dr. Donald B Geldart
1006 W. Pleasant St
Avon Park, FL 33825-2966
What is with "1006"?
There were no business listings for him. Except a Donald O. Norton in MT with a steak restaurant. I will keep plugging along.
There's some stunning research into Donald O. Norton on the blog: thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com
Mostly in Sept. 2005 and thereabouts. Some pictures too.
Kathy
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Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline of fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed.
A guy like Ted Kennedy, with a closet full of half-clad skeletons, knows better than to rock any boats. He's just another master of reality manipulation. For crying out loud, he had his decades-old marriage to Joan *annulled* - as if it never existed - so he could marry his next wife in the Catholic Church.
I didn't know he got his first marriage annuled. Unless you're confusing him with his nephew Joe III, who dropped out of the Governor's campaign because his brother Michael, now deceased, was fooling around with his underage babysitter. And because he got an annulment from his first wife. This just points out the corruption of the Catholic Church.
Kathy
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Mick Jagger sang in Sympathy for the Devil: "I shouted out who killed the Kennedy's? When after all, it was you and me."
Originally the line was supposed to be "who killed John Kennedy" but RFK was killed during the recording session so they changed the lyric.
Also - this strange event - John Lennon's piano, on which he composed "Imagine," was brought to the grassy knoll last November as part of an art exhibit.
Yoko Ono stops at nothing, doesn't she?
Kathy
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Ted Kennedy is one of the Members of Congress who is in the CIA in violation of Article I, section 6, of the United States Constitution, which states: “No Person holding any Office under the United States shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.”
Ted is also a cocaine addict. I saw him in possession of cocaine in 1984. His KGB handlers killed both of his brothers.
After the KGB infiltration of the CIA was exposed in 1984, Ted and the rest of the corrupt hierarchy in the government and the CIA were determined to make sure that none of the corruption would be exposed.
But as I exposed the KGB infiltration, and I was at the closed-door Congressional hearings that proved the KGB officers in the CIA had killed Kennedy, I will be the undoing of the corruption and I will have Ted tossed out of Congress.
Could you tell me who you are and where or how you learned these things: 1) Ted Kennedy is a member of the CIA? 2) Ted Kennedy had a coke habit? and 3) KGB CIA members killed his brothers?
1) If he was a member of the CIA, would he not have gotten wind of a plan to assassinate his brothers?
2) How are you so "in with the in crowd" that you 'saw' Ted Kennedy in possession of cocaine in 1984?
3) A question similar to #1. If Ted Kennedy was a loyal member of the CIA, how did he not get wind that John Kennedy Jr was about to be killed (tomflocco.com)? How could Ted or any man/woman not stand up to this organization after it killed so many members of his family? I think I would burst if I was in his position. Enough murders. I think I'd call a press conference and reveal all very unexpectedly. Maybe that would get rid of the bastards.
Kathy
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I believe the book Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong, which states that there were 2 men sharing the ID of Lee Harvey Oswald. The first person who was supposed to kill Harvey, the patsy, was the cop on the scene. He ran up the front steps of the TSBD, but Harvey and another employee were standing there. He couldn't shoot. This was alleged to me by Rich DellaRosa.
Officer Tippit was supposed to kill Harvey next. He saw Lee coming along (who was setting up Harvey), and Lee reacted immediately because he knew Tippit was going to kill Harvey and had mistaken his identity. Lee shot Tippit, dropped a wallet, containing the ID of A. Hidell and was heard to exclaim, "Poor cop." This is from Harvey and Lee.
Harvey ran to the Texas Theater and was seen to sit next to some patrons for a few minutes each. Whom was he looking for or for what info? Police showed up at the Texas Theater when a record store owner saw Harvey go in the theater without paying and told the woman who worked at the box office. She called the cops. The cops raided the theater and Harvey was arrested amid all this commotion and taken outside in a near riot. About the same time, a merchant was looking out the back of his store next to the theater and saw cops bringing Lee (which he thought was Harvey) quietly out an exit door. This comes from Oswald's Tale by Norman Mailer.
You can buy Harvey and Lee at jfkresearch.com. It's going to be a rare book and a collector's item.
George Smathers
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Just a comment. Smathers was a lying bastard. He was the one, I believe, who started the rumors about Kennedy and other women. Then Norman Mailer's popular book came out, Marilyn, which made it public she was friends with Bobby and Jack, Pat (nee Kennedy) Lawford and Peter Lawford. Since we have learned what a traitor and turncoat Norman Mailer was: he wrote Oswald's Tale and came to the conclusion that the conspiracy theories were wrong. He couldn't find conspiracy in the Kennedy Assassination. Not even, as he conveys in his book, they took Oswald out of the Texas Theater in a riot of policemen. And at the same time, a man who owned a business next to the theater, saw the cops (2) take Oswald out a back exit. Now how can that be? I think Mailer got spooked.
This is a rumor: Mailer had tax problems and when he stated there was no conspiracy to kill President Kennedy, those problems went away. Someone told me this. I will try to find proof. Nevertheless, Smathers smeared Kennedy after he was dead, bringing out all the women and that the 2 brothers were having affairs with Monroe. Smathers was no friend. He had no respect for his memory He managed to assassinate Kennedy twice.
Opinion: I believe, even if you're President, your sex life has nothing to do with your politcal life. I don't care how many women he slept with. He was the best President we had in the 20th Century.
Kathy