James Richards

David,

Thank you so much for posting the Odio interview. That has been incredibly helpful.

Cheers,

james

We don't even know yet who that policeman is! (Denis Morissette)

Good point, Denis.

Is it me, or does this cop bear some resemblance to Chauncey Holt? I think I need a lie down now.

James

Hi Greg,

The photographic evidence is far from being a clincher but given Prouty's relationship with Lansdale, I guess we should at least take notice.

That aside, I find the Tramps photo itself a very strange one. Given that these guys were under arrest and being escorted by armed guards, why would someone be allowed to get that close to them? And why would that person want to get that close to people who were obviously under police guard?

Then we have the cops themselves. Check out the guy bringing up the rear (see below). Ill-fitting uniform, casual manner of weapon handling - he would look more at home with the Keystone cops.

Baffling.

James

I read in Mark Lane's Plausible Denial that he had a conversation with Fletcher Prouty in which Prouty referred to a photograph taken in DP on 11/22/63 and stated that Ed Lansdale was in the photo. Does anyone know of (or have a copy of) that particular photo? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Hi Greg,

Here is the Tramps photograph in question and a crop/blow-up of the supposed Lansdale figure.

James

A fifty must be torn to get rid of the bad luck.  I'd bet five and cry if I lost it, but I'm cheap.  This is Lutz you think?  There was a lawsuit from Hall over this? love to see the details of that claim.  Source of this info please, very interesting James.

Oh, and why would you be surprised that he was referring to Rip?  Perhaps Tim Gratz has Lots o Lutz info for us?  Tim, you are down there, this is a keys article--your thoughts?

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Hi Christy,

I don't see Robertson as any kind of organizer but as a guy who was happiest when given a gun and told to run up the beach while shooting at the enemy.

As far as the source goes re lawsuit, that info can be found in a mid 1970's edition of 'Newsreal Series'.

I do believe the Tattler article was written by Lutz given the similarities to several he penned in the Newsreal edition. Then again ...

James

James

Thanks for the picture.  What is the time frame?

Jim Root

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Jim,

I would think 1964-65. The meeting they were attending was to do with Vietnam. Of course McCloy and Taylor being a part of the so-called 'wise-men'.

James

Besides being tennis partners, it seems Taylor and McCloy had a good working relationship for many years prior to the assassination of JFK. (Jim Root)

Hi Jim,

I thought you might enjoy this image below. John McCloy on the left, Maxwell Taylor on the right.

James

Thanks Larry and Christy.

It appears we have some common ground for Angel and that certainly doesn't fit Lawrence Howard.

I remember a description of Leopoldo as being tall with a receding hairline but for the life of me can't recall the source. It may have been Odio but I'm not sure.

The New Orleans encounter with Orest Pena may be significant here. Thanks for your replies.

James

It appears from the Ravens website where his photo is found (link below) that Pakse Base Man was one of the Ravens, USAF volunteers flying as forward air controllers out of Pakse in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

If he was indeed a regular USAF pilot prior to the CIA's creation of the Ravens in Laos in 1966, it's doubtful he would have been in Laos in 1963, or in Dallas except by some remote coincidence.

This leads me to believe that Pakse Base Man and the man on the lamp post at Main and Houston were not the same person, despite the striking resemblance.

http://www.ravens.org/kham/kham.htm

Ron

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Hi Ron,

Thanks for the link to that web site. It's a good one.

The whole Pakse Base Man thing came about after I did a photo montage for Larry Hancock's book which was related to David Morales being the Base Chief at Pakse in 1966. That photo was one of those used.

The resemblance to the man on the lightpole in Dealey Plaza was noticed and what ifs were asked.

I do not believe Pakse Base Man and Lightpole Man are one in the same. I also have my doubts that David Morales is Lightpole Man.

FWIW.

James

Hi Christy,

I don't know if the W.R. Robbinson mentioned in the article is actually Rip Robertson and I would be surprised if it was. You are right that Robertson liked the action and he liked hanging out with soldiers and warrior types. Some of the stories in Haynes Johnson's Bay of Pigs book stands as testimony to that.

If I were a betting man, I would put a lazy fifty on the Tattler story being written by Tom Lutz. Lutz was behind a big Castro did it push in the early to mid 70's with information from a supposed inside source.

I also believe Loran Hall filed suit against the Tattler for 100 million. I have no idea what became of that.

James

Who supplied the FALs?  What dealer?  Thx

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Good question, Christy. Unfortunately I have no answer but the reference can be found in Rappleye and Becker's, 'All American Mafioso'.

James

There is no coincidence that there have been so many false “intelligence” documents that have been produced on UFOs. I am thinking in particular about the so-called FBI memo that linked Dorothy Kilgallen, Marilyn Monroe, JFK and UFOs. I think this is an attempt to discredit JFK researchers. It is noticeable how people like John McAdams often adds the comment about researchers that as well as being conspiracy theorists that they also believe in UFOs. This is a clever tactic, I for one, begin to have doubts about the intelligence of a researcher when it is revealed that they believe in a government conspiracy to hide the existence of UFOs.

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Hi John,

It is also interesting how the media has successfully linked the term, Unidentified Flying Object with strange and frightening aliens. In its simplest form, just because something is a UFO hardly suggests that it came from another planet. Earthly origins should be the first place one should look.

I hold the view that 99.9% of UFO's can be explained. It is a fascinating subject but a hard one to approach because as soon as one mentions UFO, one automatically falls into the catagory of believing extraterrestrial beings have visited our planet and a huge conspiracy exists to cover it up.

James

Thanks, Shanet. Makes sense.

James

I recall you or someone saying that this person was at Long Tieng in Laos. Pakse and Long Tieng were two different bases, Pakse in the south of Laos and Long Tieng in the north. If this 'Jim' was at Long Tieng, shouldn't he be called Long Tieng Man, and not Pakse Base Man? (We wouldn't want his nickname to mislead researchers into looking for his identity in the wrong place.) (Ron Ecker)

Hi Ron,

I agree, the last thing we need in this assassination is more confusion. I'm already cross-eyed and walking into walls.

I'm pretty sure the guy in question is from Pakse. The reason being is that they were involved with moving people and stuff across the Thai border which was very close by.

James

Hi Shanet,

It makes one wonder about Morales, doesn't it? I guess very few desired to take him on and understandably so.

I see you picked up on the Belgian FAL issue. This of course was a part of William Harvey's Executive Action blueprint which called for weapons and ammunition to be used in Castro assassination plots be untraceable to American agents. The FAL's were the type used by the Cuban army. Harvey was the one who secured these weapons.

To add to that, it seems the likes of Eddie Bayo, Tony Cuesta and their men were recipients of such weapons while the run of the mill exile trudging around sand boxes in the Florida Keys had to make do with whatever they could lay their hands on.

Below is a shot of Eddie Bayo with a Belgian FAL. The second photograph shows Vicente Mendez (center frame holding a Grease Gun) and on the far left is Herminio Diaz Garcia with a Belgian FAL.

I believe the Roselli stuff was pretty accurate.

James

Richard Nagell and Col. William Bishop described the infamous 'Angel' as being 5 foot 10 inches, 160-165 pounds and of swarthy complexion.

Does anyone have handy the description that Sylvia Odio gave? I know Lawrence Howard has been suggested as a possible but he hardly fits this description.

Also, if anyone has Odio's description of 'Leopoldo', that would be appreciated as well.

Cheers,

James

Hi Christy,

Thanks for sending the pages. I can't get the PDF file to attach so I will keep searching for my scanned copies.

It is certainly an interesting story. It follows the Hall, Howard, Seymour combo that visited Sylvia Odio and makes some strange claims about Hall like him going to Rhodesia and making contact with the Sultan of Oman. I also found it interesting that most of the negative information on Hall came from Soldier Of Fortune's Robert Brown.

The other thing about the Tattler article is that it is very similar to one written by Tom Lutz which supposedly received its 'inside' information from a guy known only as 'Operative A'. It eventually turns into a Castro did it tale by connecting Hall and company to Castro agents.

James

Has the debunking been debunked, or simply ignored by Ufologists? (Ron Ecker)

Hi Ron,

It is all a mass of confusion. There seemed to be some genuine documents discovered in the beginning and then a mass of forgeries swamped the UFO research community.

Not being completely versed on this subject, I don't know which is which. The forgeries have served their purpose though, which is to call into doubt any such document that approaches the subject.

Interesting to note that Gordon Novel entrenched himself into UFO research about this time. He sure seems to know where the action is.

James

For those who are interested, here is the FBI file on Fred Crisman and his connection to a UFO story.

It is (1.4MB).

http://209.132.68.98/pdf/crisman_fbifile.pdf

James

Good on you, Stan. Well done.

James

James, Gordon sent me the Sept 1975 Tattler article.  I'd heard about it but not read it. Has a few errors.  Do you know who wrote it?  Doesn't seem to be a name on it.  Lawrence Howard claimed CIA leased the land from a Wilma Weldon and W.R. Robbinson, plans changed and later Masferrer got into it.  Has anyone done any research on this article or the writers and genesis?  It relies on Hall info for much of story but Hall is not interviewed.  I'm interested in the contents of the article and how it got passed around with other stuff at time that led to the opinions about No Name we see today?

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Hi Christy,

For the life of me, I can not find that article. I know I scanned it some time back. Do you have a copy you can attach to an email?

James

Here's an interesting article written by Anderson in about 1973. I find it curious that he refuses to name David Morales but instead uses the 'Big Indian' nickname.

Given Anderson's background on Brad Ayers, he would have known all too well who Morales was.

James

Jim...Operation MAJESTIC had to do with UFOs. Very interesting

document. What is the UFO tie-in?

Jack

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Hi Jack,

From what I can gather, Forrestal was going head to head with Air Force Secretary Symington over defence spending. Forrestal couldn't do what needed to be done and balance the budget. He was aware of the Green Fireball phenomena at the time and that the Air Force had supposedly shot down a UFO. Forrestal wanted to up the ante but was not supported by Truman.

He eventually became paranoid thinking that they were all out to get him. His mental health suffered and so he was murdered as the powers felt he could not be relied upon to maintain the secrets relating to national security.

All speculation of course.

BTW, there is also a Fred Crisman tie in here as well. I'll have a hunt around and see what I can find.

James

Hi Shanet,

I found this document (annex C) below on-line and I'm still of two minds whether or not it is genuine.

Interesting things to look at include the handwritten note in the top left hand corner which reads, "Put in Angelton's Yellow Files" and paragraph 11 which has the curious opinion that Forrestal's death was "deemed necessary and regrettable".

I would be very interested in your opinion on this.

http://209.132.68.98/pdf/annexc_fragment.pdf

James

I don't have this photograph? Has any other member of the Forum got this photograph and a scanner? (John Simkin)

The photo in question is one showing JFK's friends and relatives (all male) who are posing in a field against a fence. Jackie is in the middle (the only woman) and Torbert MacDonald is horsing around trying to get under her dress.

James