Bernice Moore

Robin yes, the information imo should have and has been passed along, as noted you do not take credit for another's work nor information. Moderators could any information coming from any source within the TSBDM be simply, posted as information from the TSBDM....or similar...this or something other than, worked out, may possibly put an end to Gary stirring the pot, as imo he so enjoys doing by so readily writing within his love notes, so and so is in error or similar finger pointing..this way the forum would be informed of the corrected information but witholding any needless comments......?? thanks .....b

''We cannot celebrate the life of John F. Kennedy while we forget his death'' John Judge

HI Ken: Correct, she did acknowledge that she did not notice if they did move towards the wall, she does state they were there when she and Zapruder first arrived to climb up on the pedestal, the fact is from what she does say is that her impression was they did not move in anyway from the bench, after she and Abraham had arrived.except she did notice when they finally did and ran up to the back of the pergola, .personally i do wish she had been asked many more questions, enlightening us, but not to be, we are fortunate we have what we do have, she should have imo been called by the w/c here she was the closest witness to perhaps the most important witness who filmed the assassination, and not called, nor even interviewed by the fbi nor authouritys in Dallas....... b

Yes David baby bottles in use were still mainly glass, but there were no broken baby bottles either at the scene, nothing within the films shown on the sidewalk or in that specific area except the melted snow cone, as many think it was, or spilt whatever,nor did she ever mention a baby...thanks..b

HI The Duncan; hope all goes well, thank you ,it is always very appreciated when a researcher clarifies his information so clearly,and willingly. i did the studies well i followed you and , on the forums,when the research was done in this area, so i had or have a pretty good idea, of what was what. if recall is still working that is.. .now here is a snippet from marilyn sitzman's interview with Josiah,for you that makes clear neither of the couple whom she saw on the bench moved, during the assassination, not him running up to the bench,from the steps, nor either moving towards the wall...you should look into it, as what she relates does not fit within your research,of their actions, fwiw...thanks and take care.best b

''No, just the two colored people running back.

• Thompson: I see. They were already ... they'd gotten up from the bench and were now running around into the gap made between the stockade fence and the pergola.
  
• Sitzman: Either in the gap there or back in the alcove. I don't recall which way they went. I saw ... I heard the bottles crash, and of course I looked that way, to my right, right away, and they were getting up and running towards the back. And I turned back to see if there was anything in the front street, because then they didn't affect me one way or another.
  

snip

• Thompson: To see if anything else was going on. Had you seen them sitting on the bench before you stood next to them?
  
• Sitzman: Oh dear, yes. Everybody is ... oh, ten or fifteen minutes before, everybody was milling around down there, trying to find a place to stand and everything, and I know when we went over to get up on the marble thing, they were already sitting there.
  
• Thompson: Well, did you notice at any point whether either of these two moved up to the end of the, to the point of the wall?
  
• Sitzman: No. They may have. I don't know.
  

brings to mind..........“We've unmasked madmen, Watson, wielding scepters. Reason run riot. Justice howling at the moon.” -Sherlock Holmes, Murder by Decree ...b.

IMO the breakage noise of 2 pop bottles would never be louder than the noise of a shot flying past her from behind the pedestal.....

A snip from Zapruder's testimony . which he also gave to the fbi immediately after the assassination...b

Moreover, Zapruder described what he meant by the shots coming from

behind as where the cops went who ran up the grassy knoll and behind him.

No, not at the time of the shots. And Zapruder explained what he meant

by behind him and the area the shots came from when he said that the

cops ran behind him up on the grassy knoll looking for the shooter.

> The important point, noted by both Zapruder and Bill Newman, was that

> they felt the bullets passing near them, which would have been from the

> knoll area.

Just the phrase passing them could mean from any direction which makes a

straight line between their positions and the limo.

Zapruder explained in his testimony that he thought the shots came

from behind him for two reasons:

1) the right side of Kennedy's head exploded in gunfire

2) cops went up the grassy knoll

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any impression as to the direction from

which these shots came?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course,

you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere,

but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right

in the head - I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came

from here and it could come from there.

. . . .

Mr. LIEBELER. As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm street,

you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you

and down the railroad track behind that, is that right?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. After the shots?

Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Yes - after the shots - yes, some of them were

motorcycle cops - I guess they left their motorcycles running and they

were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting.

I guess they thought it came from right behind me.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any impression as to the direction from

which these shots came?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course,

you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere,

but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right

in the head - I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came

from here and it could come from there.

. . . .

Mr. LIEBELER. All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked

down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of

the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Well, yes.

Mr. LIEBELER. From the direction behind you?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Yes, actually - I couldn't say what I thought at the

moment, where they came from . . . I assumed that they came from

there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked

like it came from the back of me.

When Zapruder was asked if he himself could tell as an earwitness

where the shots came from, he said no, he could not, there was too

much echo.

Mr. LIEBELER. But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what

direction the shots did come from actually?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. No.

Mr. LIEBELER. And you indicated that they could have come also from

behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left,

because they could have been from behind or even from the front.

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Well, it could have been - in other words if you have a

point - you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's

concerned. I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was

going.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you form any opinion about the direction from which

the shots came by the sound, or were you just upset by the thing you

had seen?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo

which gave me a sound all over. In other words that square is kind of

- it had a sound all over

the TSBD some say was also behind him, but...

If one stood on Zapruder's Perch, and counted that to be in the middle of

the clock, with Zapruder facing his direction of shooting, the TSBD's

sixth floor SN would be about ten or eleven o'clock. Nine o'clock which

would be parallel to his left side might take you to the complete west end

of the building. Any which way, that is not even close to being behiind

him..he also in any interview never mentioned a couple on the bench nor

in anyway pop bottles crashing,

....never mind louder than the sound of a shot...imo...b

Duncan: hi the small photo showing the officer behind the wall and whatever on the floor of such on the left, is not a known real photo, taken at the time is it?? it has been made by you or someone, in showing what you or they think happened, am i correct on this information ?? if so, then whomever has created that it is an altered phony photo for research, which, i have always been led to believe in the research is never allowed as it is creating disinformation.....i am not being mean here, but i do want to know for researchs sake, we only use what is real not what is created...or supposed.....thank you for the clarification ..take care..b

Ken ; hi, correct sitzman never mentioned any other than the two young people, no baby, she had much to say when first interviewed by Josiah, and later sdded and changed some info as she was quite put out, that she had been ignored..she mentions that the young women were at that time, not interviewed by the authoritys..in another short interview....and she made many a change within her info as time went by....the one bit of info that has never been cleared, but only by supposition, is her remark whereby the couple threw their coke, pop bottles down and they broke making a very loud noise, in fact she tried to relate that they made as much or more noise than the shots at the time, trouble was in all the film taken of that area after, there was and never has been any broken glass pop bottles found or shown or mentioned by the photographer or, if she told the truth they would have only broken on the cement sidewalk, and clearly shown in the film...but imo they would not have broken hitting the ,dirt the ground which at that time was the floor of said patio....good to see you best b...

snip; from Marilyn's interview with Josiah;<p>""And another thing that I remember this day: there was a colored couple. I figure they were between 18 and 21, a boy and a girl, sitting on a bench, just almost, oh, parallel with me, on my right side, close to the fence.

• Thompson: In other words, between you and the fence, there's a tree right next to the ...
  
  • Sitzman: There's a tree, and there's another part of the marble or concrete, whatever they call it, slab, fence, whatever they call it, between that and the wooden fence.
    
    • Thompson: Which direction was the bench facing when you ...
      
      • Sitzman: It was facing towards the street.
        
        • Thompson: Towards the street. Parallel? Down street? Facing forward?
          
          • Sitzman: And they were eating their lunch, 'cause they had little lunch sacks, and they were drinking coke. The main reason I remember 'em is, after the last shot I recall hearing and the car went down under the triple underpass there, I heard a crash of glass, and I looked over there, and the kids had thrown down their coke bottles, just threw them down and just started running towards the back and I ... Of course, I don't see anything unusual in that because everybody else was running that way, 'cause when I look over on my left side, the people on the hill were all running back the same way too. ""
            

        [*]Thompson: Could I ask you something about your gaze and actions immediately after the head shot? On the trailer of Mr. Zapruder's film, we noticed that he turned to his right and photographed the general area of the stockade fence, the trees and the stockade fence and that particular area. Did you turn in that direction after the head shot too?

        [*]Sitzman: In a way, I have a feeling this: He might have heard the kids throw down the coke bottles and heard that crash or else maybe it was just what he saw could have caused a reaction where he'd jump, but I don't think it was the sound of bullets, because I didn't jump.

        [*]Thompson: No.

        [*]Sitzman: Because the pop bottle crashing was much louder than the shots were""

snip

Thank you Mike,i do not mean to be facetious, but now i feel i must ask whose, historical record...?

B...

mike. respectfully may i ask you a question, thank you, whose record are you setting straight ?? .b

I still cannot get over the damage inflicted on the Dillard photographs. I have my doubts the Warren Commission "Dillard's" are genuine.

Hi Lee if i recall correctly, they were in perfect condition when handed in, but the damage was accidentally done when they supposedly were analysing them......like oops.......b

this may have the information within, take care b.

http://educationforu...hl=Newmans&st=0

mike; yes here is betzner 3, see robin ungers site, for great photo copies for research...b

http://www.jfkassass...iongallery.com/

Thank you Robin, very nice...b

In doing a search within, I came upon this information by Robert Groden to the HSCA findings...which is very interesting.imo...fwiw...his opinion...

[PDF]

HSCA Volume VI: Comments on the Panel's Report by Robert Groden

www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pdf/HSCA_Vol6

some information re Walthers fwiw..b

here are two docs originally from dennis morisette's ( sp) site, if he is still out there there may be more information at his site...fwiw..b from memory ?? I think the Lawrence Docs are or were in the Gemberling Report..b

^{http://hotels.uptake...hotel-5999.html}

^{The Carlyle then and now.....b}

^{history of...}http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlyle_Hotel

Thanks Nate for the link, yes, very interesting...b

Subject: Re: Speed of JFK Limousine Date: 02 Aug 1999 17:33:12 GMT From: sfz@aol.com (Sfz) Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk

credit Steve zeigler........Speed of Limousine..

I'm reposting just the smoothed speed figures, since the multicolumn version was pretty messy. I can now say that the speed of the car is almost certainly related to Greer turning around to look in the back seat. I've written before that there are two turns by Greer: F285: Driver Greer appears to be looking in the rear view mirror F291-5: driver takes a very quick glance to the rear F302-5: Driver twists to look into back of car F316: driver begins turning back to front, and will duck forward In the smoothed data we can see very clearly that the car actually goes through two decelerations, both of essentially the same rate (of between 3.6 and 5 mph/sec) with each episode lasting about a quarter of a second. Although Greer is in shadow, we can verify what direction he is looking by comparing the outline of his head - an oblong outline means his head is looking forward or backward, and a rounded, smaller outline means he is looking towards the camera. Thus I repeat: the car slowed down when Greer turned to look into the back seat. I slowed down because the act of twisting to look back caused his right (accelerator) foot to lift. I also note that Greer essentially stomped the accelerator at F338, yielding an acceleration of about 11 mph/sec - not a bad zero-to-sixty time for a big car. The force on Jackie as she rose would have been terrific, especially as she was facing rear and without warning or support. It is amazing to me that she didn't slide right out of the car - and might have had Greer not let up apparently because he saw Jackie and perhaps Hill on the trunk. Frame smoothed speed 260 263 11.7 266 11.3 269 11.8 272 11.6 275 11.6 278 11.4 281 11.1 284 11.2 287 11.1 290 10.8 293 10.3 296 9.8 299 9.4 302 9.5 305 9.5 308 9.7 311 9.3 314 8.9 317 8.7 320 8.3 323 8.4 326 8.3 329 8.5 332 8.6 335 8.8 338 8.9 341 9.3 344 10.1 347 11.3 350 11.8 353 12.6 356 13.2 359 13.9 362 14.4 365 15.0 368 15.7 371 16.3 374 16.7 377 16.8 380 17.1 Note: after F380 the car stops accelerating for a bit, apparently to let Hill and Jackie get situated, and then it takes off again. regards Steve Zeigler

From the Newcomb and Perry book above,Execution I do not buy into the fact that a gun was held outside the window of the ss follow-up car of LBJ;s ss and fired, some do,and that is their choice..there is much information though within, imo..thanks...

Re SS Agent statements, information from Vince Palamara; fyi...

From: "Jessica K. & Vincent M. Palamara" <palamara@telerama.com>

Subject: Agents who believed there was a conspiracy

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998

As of June - 2003, write Vince Palamara at vincebethel@yahoo.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The following agents believed that there was a conspiracy involved in

JFK's death (I use past tense only because most of them are now

deceased):

1)Samuel A. Kinney- Sam told me this three times (he also stated that he

found the notion of conspiracy "plausible" to the HSCA, based offf the

recently-released contact reports available thru the ARRB/ Archives). He

thought Oswald was the lone shooter, although he stated emphatically

that there were no missed shots (!)- he spoke to Connally about this and

THE GOVERNOR AGREED WITH SAM! Sam also told me that the "right rear" of

JFK's head was missing[he later recovered THE piece of the president's

head on the C-130], and that his windshield (of the follow-up car) and

left arm were splattered with blood and brain matter. Finally, whether

hyperbole or not, Sam said "He had no brains left". Sam passed away

7/21/97 while vacationing in Iowa. His wife Hazel told me she regretted

that Sam is now forever unable to tell more...;

2) Roy H. Kellerman- According to his widow June, Roy "accepted that

there was a conspiracy"- this was based on June overhearing Roy's

telephone conversation with someone from the HSCA in approx. 1977 or

1978. As we all know, Roy stated to the WC that "there has to be more

than three shots, gentleman" and that a "flurry of shells" came into the

car. Like Bill Greer, Roy is often added to the list of those witnesses

who reported that the right rear of JFK's head was blasted. The above

information was reported to author Anthony Summers for the Dec. 1994

VANITY FARE, p. 88 [uncredited]; you'll also find it in my book.

Finally, Kellerman's daughter told Harold Weisberg in the 1970's that "I

hope the day will come when these men [Kellerman and Greer*]will be able

to say what they've told their families";

3) Abraham W. Bolden, Sr,- Abe is a firm believer in a conspiracy AND in

Secret Service negligence. Also, Abe is adamant that there was a plot to

kill JFK in Chicago in early November, 1963. I spoke to Bolden twice and

corresponded at length with him between 1993 and the present. bolden is

currently working on his own book with his wife:);

4) Maurice G. Martineau- Abe's boss in the Chicago office, Martineau was

equally adamant to me that a conspiracy took the life of President

Kennedy. He aso told me he finds the work of the HSCA much more valid

than that of the WC. However, when it comes to info. on the Chicago

plot, Martineau is afraid to give me details to this day...;

5) John Norris- a member of the uniformed division of the Secret

Service, Norris is a fervent believer in a conspiracy, although one gets

the impression this is more based on his beliefs than actual knowledge,

but I could be mistaken. Still, his views and beliefs are important for

obvious reasons;

6) *Bill Greer- despite many suspicions I have about Greer's conduct on

11/22-11/23/63, he is a "default" addition to this list. In addition to

Kellerman's daughter's comments mentioned above, he is also among those

witnesses who, at least indirectly, gave testimony that the right rear

of JFK's head was missing. Also, to the HSCA, he had much misgivings

about the Single Bullet Theory. Still, this could just be guilty

conscience- he expressed much guilt to Jackie Kennedy concerning his

awful performance on Elm Street (which he would later deny to the FBI

and the WC; even Greer's son Richard was adamant to me that his father

had absolutely no survivor's guilt, despite these documented, very early

guilt feelings. Even Dave Poers and Ken O'donnell document Greer's early

remorse ["Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye'; see also Powers interview by

Charles Kuralt, 11/22/88 on video];

Also, Paul E. Landis, Jr., an agent in the follow-up car who, like agent

Hill, was assigned to Jackie, stated twice that shots came from the

front [18H755; 18H759];

In addition, agent Thomas "Lem" Johns, who rode in the V.P. follow-up

car, told the HSCA that "the first two [shots] sounded like they were on

the side of me towards the grassy knoll" [RIF 180-10074-10079];

Finally, SAIC of the Dallas office Forrest V. Sorrels, riding in the

lead car, believed the shots came from the front [Mark Lane's "Rush to

Judgement" film- interview with Orville Nix, a good friend of Sorrels'

who worked in the Dallas office as a maintenance worker]. I spoke very

briefly to Sorrels on two occasions in 1992, a year before he died- he

would not clarify anything...

Vince Palamara

----------------------------- end ------------------------------------

in Blaine's book, it states clearly, the first action of the driver, at the first sound or sign of trouble, is to begin a zig zagging manuveur , to get the POTUS, out of siteing by an assassin' weapon, Greer did not, he only disobeyed, first the manuveur then the specific order from his superior, SSIC Kellerman to move it, he as you state did not till he saw for himself that the President head had exploded, then he moved, but he, they would have all believe, his actions followed SS evasive rules, they did neither, distorting history, imo the only who are detrimental to the Witnesses are the LNrs for obvious reasons, and or because their information, whomever, interferes with their theory, so they must try to destroy their standing and honesty by creating doubt,and have in many cases, but they forget how obvious they have and do appear on here and elsewhere when they use such tactics, and then they wonder why others do not trust them, or as some say look at them sideways, imo it comes down to s or get off the pot, when whomever distort what the witnesses say, they knowingly are trying to change history, and what actually occurred and are very aware of such, their later pretense of phony innocence, as what did i do ?? crap is as phony as a two dollar bill and they know it, so dismiss, what they post,or go around, ignore their obvious attempts at distorting history, too much of that has gone on..imo...b........ps if a witness has grossly distorted their information down through the years for say attentions sake,or, and that can and has been proven, then imo that is a very diffrent matter, but if basically their information has been the same or very similar, then imo the onysis is on the researcher, to not distort, for their theories sake......b........Information from Sherry; from Lancer........re matter.......Testimony Of Roy H. Kellerman, Special Agent, Secret Service Beginning At 2H61 states he WAS blood spattered. "Mr. KELLERMAN. Senator, between all the matter that was--between all the matter that was blown off from an injured person, this stuff all came over.

Senator COOPER. What was that?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Body matter; flesh..

Mr. SPECTER. When did you first notice the substance which you have described as body matter?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I got to the hospital, sir, it was all over my coat."

Frazier testified on 2-21 & 2-22-1969 in the Clay Shaw trial. During his testimony he discussed what was found when the limo was searched at 1am on 11-23. "We found blood and tissue all over the outside areas of the vehicle from the hood ornament, over the complete area of the hood, on the outside of the windshield, also on the inside surface of the windshield, and all over the entire exterior portion of the car, that is, the side rails down both sides of the car, and of course considerable quantities inside the car and on the trunk lid area." I confirmed this information with him in a telephone interview a few years ago.

So, blood was found in ALL directions radiating outward from the President's injury, and it's NOT safe to say that there was no forward momentum of the blood and matter. HOWEVER, it appears the larger volume of blood was observed behind the President, consistant with a projectile traveling from the front.

An explanation of the mechanics of wound ballistics and bloodstain patterns created in a gunshot to the head may be found at http://www.jfklancerforum.com/sherryg/ sorry that link no longer works, but here is one with much of the blood pattern research quoted fyi...thanks b

http://www.jfklancer...=48355&page=230

Warmly,

Sherry

Thanks, Michael, Older Epstein articles..I believe at...

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/the_critics/Epstein/Whos_Afraid/Whos_Afraid.html

b.

Good on you BILL...yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..

BREAKDOWN "FULL DISCLOSURE" - CHAPTER 3 THE "BREAKDOWN" OF THEINFRASTRUCTURE OF THE SECRETSERVICE ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963byVince Palamara

While it is a relatively easy task to point out the Secret Service'sgeneral deficiencies in regard to the tragic events of November 22, 1963in Dallas, Texas, it has been a more difficult feat to lay bare all of thespecific things that went wrong in regard to security. This has beenachieved primarily through a combination of luck, hard work, and,perhaps most importantly, dealing with primary sources (documents)and primary people (the actual former agents themselves). However,one very significant element has been missing up to now due in no smallpart to the constant evolution of my own thinking on the subject: who inthe agency benefited? Who did not? JUST HOW WERE THESE LAPSES INSECURITY ALLOWED TO HAPPEN? After discarding the options of mere innocence, guilt, negligence,and, more recently, the notion of a "benign" security-stripping test that "backfired" into the assassination, I have now come to the FIRM conclusion,based on seven-plus years of heavy, primary research and numerousinterviews, that the Secret Service actions (and inactions) in Texas weredue largely to a significant breakdown in both the chain of command and therespect of superior authority. In addition, I believe a "malignant" test of the President's security was involved on/'around November 22, 1963, with the actual intent to HARM AND/OR EMBARRASS President Kennedy,rather thanmerely shaking him into seeing that the Service needed more funds, equipment,and personnel (benefits which would arise from any attempt to harm JFK,successful or otherwise). Furthermore, it is now my strong belief, aftershaking off years of equivocation, that several agents HAD to have beeninvolved in the ACTUAL assassination by getting wind of the impendingthreat and letting it happen, not by an unruly mob out to treat Kennedylike Adlai Stevenson (the byproduct of a "malignant" test), but by a "flurryof shells", to quote Agent Kellerman in a much different kind of context. If Dallas was the "Superbowl" (a very appropriate analogy), then the"game" was not merely rigged, it was fixed from the very start by a combi-nation of inexperienced "third-stringers" and "bench-warmers". These men, knowingly or unknowingly, let the assassination happen through sheer incompetence, inexperience, and a desire to usurp the authority presented by the chain of command, whether those in this command were present in Texas or "out of the loop" in another part of the country at the crucial moment or moments. Key elements of this "team" chose to call their OWN "plays" in Dallas and, just as in the game of football, the consequences of defeat can wreak havoc on General Management (Treasury officials), the coaches (the brass), and, ultimately, certain players (the agents themselves). A look at the consequences of Dallas--the breakdown of the infrastructure of the Secret Service--is now in order. C. DOUGLAS DILLON, the Secretary of the Treasury, was responsiblefor the overall operations of the Secret Service during the Kennedy presidency.Dillon was certainly "out of the loop" on 11/22/63--he was on a crowdedCabinet plane bound for Japan via Hawaii with Dean Rusk, Orville Freeman,and most of the major players, including Press Secretary Pierre Salinger,whose absence on the Texas trip planning was profound. Agent Bob Lilleytold me that Salinger, who normally made these trips, was "extremelyknowledgable" about proper motorcade planning and security concerns,as the agency had "worked closely with Pierre on all our advance work"---except in Dallas [author's interviews with Lilley, 1992-1996]. As WilliamManchester accurately reported, even Andy Hatcher, the number two man, wasleft behind, ostensibly because he was a Negro, leaving a "third-stringer",Malcolm Kilduff, to make his first major trip on his own (The Death of aPresident, 1988 edition, p.12; author's interviews with Sam Kinney,1992-1994. Interestingly, a Negro agent, Robert R. Faison, was aprominent member of the Secret Service on the Texas trip). In Dillon'splace, ASST. SEC. ROBERT A. WALLACE had, among other duties, issued an"official" denial to the press at 3:33 p.m. that an agent was killed in Dallas, as the AP, UPI, and all the networks were continually reporting as fact--at this time, AFI was on its way back to Washington with JFK's body [NBC video, 3:40 p.m.] Another deputy, ACTING SEC. G. d'ANGELOT BELIN also "stepped in" in Dillon's absence during crucial parts of 1963 and 1964 [18H810-815; 933-934]; in fact, this man was "confused" by ChiefRowley as being the General Counsel of the Warren Commission(18H810-815]! Fallout? Although Dillon, a member of the "Stop Castro" lobbyin Washington [Destiny Betrayed by Jim DiEugenio, p. 334] and theprimary member of the "Dillon Committee" that whitewashed andcovered-up the agency's performance on November 22 (ironicallyformalized on November 22, 1964), a duty he would repeat for anotheragency as a member of the Rockefeller Commission with another Belin(David), he was replaced in January 1965 by UNDERSECRETARY HENRY"JOE" H. FOWLER. CHIEF JAMES J ROWLEY was a close, personal friend of J EDGARHOOVER who usually left day-to-day operations up to his top men, excepton important trips (i.e. Germany, June, 1963) [author's interview withRowley 9/27/92]. However, although quite aware of both the Chicago(11/2/63) AND the Florida (11/18/63) threats before Dallas ["TheThird Alternative" by the author, p. 53; HSCA audio tape of Rowley, 9/78],Rowley was left "out of the loop" back in Washington, D.C., attending aluncheon on 11/22/63 [Truman Library Oral History, 1988]. Meanwhile,DEPUTY CHIEF PAUL PATERNI, a member of the OSS during WWII and aformer partner of James Jesus Angleton and Ray Rocca ["Who's Who in theCIA"], would provide the only significant hands-on participation from theChief's office on 11/22/63: he was principally involved in the limousineinspection at the White House Garage with Floyd Boring whereupon bulletfragments, skull particles, and vehicle damage was "noted" before the FBIgot their hands on the car [CD8O, p. 3].Fallout? Rowley took much heat before, during, and after his FBI, WC, andHSCA appearances, in place of many of his more deserving deputies [see alsoThe Day Kennedy Was Shot, by Jim Bishop, 1988 edition, p. 558]. He wasultimately replaced during the Watergate crisis by H. STUART KNIGHT (moreon him later). SAIC GERALD A. BEHN went against protocol, not by removing himself from the 11/18/63 Florida trip (manned by Floyd Boring), but by his absence--- coinciding with his first full vacation---on the Texas trip (Behn was also in Washington "out of the loop"). Former Chief U. E. Baughman stated that the SAIC [behn] or his immediate assistant [boring] always accompany the President when he leaves Washington [secret Service Chief by Baughman, p.129]; in fact, a prominent member of the press corps in Dallas, Jerry ter Horst, wrote that Behn, who "traditionally accompanied" JFK, "would never forgive himself or be forgiven by others" for missing the Texas trip [The Flying White House, p 214]. Instead, yet another "third stringer", ASAIC [#3] ROY H. KELLERMAN, was making his first major trip on his own without either Behn OR Boring [author's interviews with Sam Kinney, 1992- 1994]! ASAIC [#2] FLOYD M. BORING, although also back in Washington, waslN CHARGE OF PLANNING THE TEXAS TRIP [author's interviews with Boringand Kinney, 1993-1994; Truman Library Oral History, 1988, p. 63; TheDay Kennedy Was Shot", 1988 edition, p. 558]! Boring had given ADVANCEAGENT WINSTON G. LAWSON the Dallas assignment [4H342] and had beenworking prominently with another advance agent, David B. Grant, Lawson'soften forgotten partner of 11/13-11/ 22 [17H601], on Kennedy's (cancelled)trip to Chicago (11/2) and Florida (11/18) AND Texas (11/21-11/22);Grant was the sole advance agent on the first two of these three major trips.In addition, Boring was involved both in the critical checks of the PRSfor potential threats to JFK for Dallas-which yielded NOTHING-and theimportant Trade Mart (vs. Women's Building) decision, which ultimatelydetermined the motorcade route choice(s), the speed of the car(s), andthe security of the (inferior) building selected (4H337; 21H546;11HSCA516; 2H1 07-108; 11 HSCA5l6; 2H107-108; 11H5CA523; TheThird Alternative, pp 11, 50; "Boring is Interesting", May 1995 FourthDecade]. Among other things, not the least of which was Behn's adamantstance against the Trade Mart, Boring HAD to have known of the prior(11/2-11/18/63) threats against JFK, as did his afore- mentionedpartner: ADVANCE AGENT DAVID B. GRANT--joined Lawson late on the night of11/16/63 and was involved in the extremely important meetings (with BettyForsling Harris, the DPD, and others) which resulted in the following:a deleted squad car, the changes in the motorcade's order of vehicles, the depletion of 18 motorcycles for JFK down to a measley 4 non-flanking units, and the removal of the press, photographers, Cecil Stoughton, Dr. Burkley, Godfrey McHugh, and Ted Clifton towards the rear of the motorcade in defiance of traditional protocol--being close to JFK [The Third Alternative pp. 18, 49; "Boring is Interesting", May 1995 Fourth Decade; Deep Politics and the Death Qf JFK by Peter Dale Scott, pp. 277-278; HSCA interview w/Winston Lawson, 1/31/ 78-new documents just released]. While Lawson, a former Army counter-intelligence agent [4H318] rode in the lead car, Grant was stationed at the Trade Mart on 11/ 22/63 (1nterestingly, as revealed in the newly- released HSCA/Secret Service interviews, Lawson stated that Lt Col. George Whitmeyer, who taught Army intelligence, rode in the pilot car, although he wasn't scheduled to be in the motorcade in the first place!) ATSAIC [deputy of the ASAIC's] EMORY P. ROBERTS was in commandof the other 7 agents in the Secret Service follow-up car for all three majortrips in November, 1963: Chicago (11/2-cancelled), Florida (11/18) andTexas(1 1/21-I 1/22). While the other two ATSAlC's, Stewart G. Stout andArthur L. Godfrey, were elsewhere (Stout at the Trade Mart, Godfrey in Austinat the Commodore-Perry Hotel [author's interviews with Godfrey, both in 1996]), Roberts was in a position to exhibit a lot of power, made manifest first by his critical positioning of the other seven agents in the car, especially agents HENRY J. RYBKA (a member of the car on 11/21-11/22 before Dallas [shift Reports of 11/21-11/22/63 via ARRB; Sturges film, Carswell AFB; 25H787]) and PRS agent GLENN A. BENNETT, who was making his very first trip ever [HSCA interview of Bennett, 1976; author interview of Kinney], riding in this most important of protective vehicles (Bennett was an administrator--if there were ostensibly, NO threats found by PRS of Dallas, WHY was Bennett placed here [he needed reminding by Lawson-17H631]? Could it be that he was (covertly)actively searching for KNOWN threats and this was covered-up afterwards [seeauthor's article in the April 1997 "JFK/ Deep Politics Quarterly"]? As forRybka, as discovered by this author, he was recalled by Roberts at Love Field[seeWFAA/ABC video and author's COPA 1995-1996 presentation videos],although Roberts would later cover this up by "mistakenly" placing RybkaIN the car via TWO written reports after-the-fact [ 18H739; Shift Reportof 11/22/63 via ARRB]; even Lawson made this same "mistake" in his FinalSurvey Report (LBJ Library copy]. In addition, once on Elm Street and after recognizing the first shot as a RIFLE blast (not a firecracker), Roberts recalled agent John D. Ready, the closest agent to JFK on the follow-up car, an action which he later erroneously blamed on the speed and distance between the two cars [18H734-735; 749-750] and ordered the other agents not to move [author's interviews with Sam Kinney, 1994]! From this moment on, Roberts totally usurped ASAIC Kellerman's proper authority in Dallas, and overtook the reigns of command, especially at Parkland Hospital [see "The Strange Actions (and Inaction) of Agent Emory Roberts", October 1996 "JFK/DPQ" by the author). However, Roberts wasn't the only agent to usurp Kellerman's authority on Elm Street... Driver William R. Greer, as has been documented many times bythis author [see "47 Witnesses: Delay on Elm Street" Jan/March 1992 ThirdDecade for example], turned around in his seat twice to stare at JFKwithout speeding up and evacuating the scene, and disobeyed a directorder from his superior, Roy Kellerman, who was sitting less than twofeet away from him in the front seat of the limousine; this all occurredbefore the fatal head shot arrived. For his part, Kellerman proved to be an inexperienced "third-stringer", not making any attempt to come to theaid of the wounded President although, like Greer, he also saw JFK hit viaturning around in his seat. Kellerman claimed that JFK said both "Get meto a hospital" [sibert & O'Neil interview of Kellerman 11/22/63; 2H73]and "My God, I've been hit" [2H73] AND made the equally-ludicrous claimthat JFK, with "his left hand in back of him appear [ed] to be reachingto a point on his right shoulder", an action not seen by any otherwitness or photographic artifact associated with 11/22/63! SAIC OF VP (LBJ) DETAIL, H. STUART KNIGHT was also absent from theTexas trip, although he was replaced by his deputy in Dallas, ASAIC RUFUS W. YOUNGBLOOD, on 11/25/63, he was back in Washington on 11/21-11/22/63, inactive ("20 Years in the Secret Service", by Youngblood, pp. S6-97; author's interviews with Knight 1992-1994 and Youngblood 1992-1994]. Although "official" history tells us Youngblood received a medal for his fast actions in Dallas covering LBJ (who wasn't even a target) after the first shot sounded, Senator Ralph Yarborough, who sat in the very same car with Youngblood and LBJ, said that this never happened-not only did Youngblood never even leave the front seat, the agent and LBJ were listening to a walkie-talkie with the volume set too low for the Senator to hear what they were picking up ["TheDeath of a President", p. 166 - surprisingly, Dave Powers, who rode in thefollow-up car in place of Cecil Stoughton, agreed with Yarborough on this] Fallout concerning Behn, Boring, Kellerman, Roberts, Lawson, Grant,Knight, and Youngblood? Behn was demoted -with Knight- on January 1965to a non-protective function known as "Special Investigations", which dealtin a tedious area of fraud. Who were these two replaced by? Rufus Youngblood,who became Kellerman's equal on 11/22/63 and Behn's equal soon after, whilebecoming Knight's superior immediately. While Lawson was tabbed as the "oneand only first ever-advance agent ever to lose a President" by an emotionalLawson himself ["Inside the Secret Service" video 1995; see also Manchester,p. 312], his long-forgotten partner,David Grant,went on to become an advanceman during the Nixon years and lived in near-total anonymity from the eventsof Dallas until this author "(re)discovered" him for the research community-Roberts became the Records Sec. to LBJ [interview with Kinney 1994], sharingimportant duties with another Roberts, Mrs. Juanita Roberts, Johnson's ChiefPrivate Secretary (Manchester, p. 403; Bishop, pp. 430, 528]. To date, thisauthor has been unable to confirm if this was Emory's wife, nor have I beenable to confirm if Roberts, who died unexpectedly in the late 1960's, was thesame agent who took his own life in Washington with his own weapon (the agentshowed signs he was beginning to buckle), according to agents Marty Venkerand Chuck Rochner ("Confessions of an Ex-Secret Service Agent" by GeorgeRush and Marty Venker, pp. 216-217]. Emory Roberts was the SECOND agentto die after Dallas. Who was the first? Fellow ATSAIC Stewart G. Stout-Stoutdied immediately after Dallas, cause unknown to date-Agents Kinney and Boringwould NOT tell me how he died during my interviews with them! In fact, Boringexpressed much doubt that Stout was EVEN IN DALLAS, which he unquestionablywas [2HKellerman; see also 18H665-702 and SS Shift reports via ARRB].Interestingly, on another November day when a President was in the midst ofan assassination attempt (Truman), not only was Floyd Boring temporarily incharge of the detail, but Stout was with him, as well, performing the verysame duties: armed and ready, safely away inside a building (Blair House andthe Trade Mart, respectively)! What about Boring? He was PROMOTED to Inspector right afterDallas, a highly coveted position of power and prestige (author's interviewswith Jerry Behn (9/27/92) and Floyd Boring 1993-1994]! And, whileBehn, Kellerman, Rowley, and Lawson were subjected to public and mediascrutiny of a negative sort, coupled with testifying to either the FBI, theWC, the HSCA, or all of the above, significantly, those who I feel stronglywere "out of the loop" on purpose--Boring, Grant, and Roberts--testifiedto NO ONE associated with any of the official investigations! Although theHSCA did have Boring's and Grant's addresses, they were apparently notcontacted (as borne out by the footnotes or lack of them- in the HSCA'sReport and accompanying volumes). Roberts was interviewed by Manchester,and I strongly suspect that he was the source for the erroneous quote,attributed to Boring, that JFK had told the agents to get off the rear of thelimousine in Florida on 11/18/63 (Boring denied that this was true ANDthat he was ever contacted by Manchester, and he is joined by notablecolleagues Kinney, Godfrey, Lilly, Behn and many others as denouncingthe whole mythology of JFK "desiring" to do away with the agents on/nearthe rear of the limousine, the motorcycles, the bubbletop, etc, [see"Boring is Interesting" and the 1995-1996 COPA videos for more onthis issue] As noted in my previous work, it is this "JFK-as-Scapegoat"theme, adopted by Roberts, Boring, Grant, and perhaps even Lawson,that, along with the impossible lack of PRS subjects for Dallas, greatlycontributed, along with this breakdown of infrastructure, to whatoccurred on 1 1/22/63). To summarize: while Dillon was "out of the loop" (and out of thecountry with Salinger et. al.), and while Chief Rowley and SAIC Behnwere inactive in D.C., Boring was pulling the strings for Dallas via D.C.,whereupon his deputies, Advance agent Grant and ATSAIC Emory Roberts,upstaged, commandeered, and, ultimately usurped the authority of "third-stringers" Roy Kellerman and Asst. Press Sec. Mac Kilduff (essentiallya non-player), not to mention Roberts' fellow ATSAIC's Godfrey and Stout AND Grant's "hapless" partner, advance agent Lawson. In addition, Young-blood took Knight's place both in Dallas and AFTER Dallas, and Greer joinedin his comrades Roberts and Boring in usurping Kellerman 's authority. This, I believe, is the key to what ultimately transpired onNovember 22, 1963-mixing in JFK's fraudulent security "desires"with a healthy dose of infrastructure breakdown spelled a deadly potionfor the planing and implementation of security concerns-and agentbehavior-in Dallas. Maybe there is a REASON a healthy majority of the agents wentfor unauthorized drinks on the eve of the murder after all...--------------- end -------------------------b

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/VP/10-VP.html

Very well done Mike..imo.thank you...best b

Dear Kathy; as you mention he is now with his Mother, and is at peace,and perhaps he now knows all that we do not,he has been down with illness for so many years, and the fact that he went peacefully in his sleep, well, let that be a comfort to you......God Bless and take care, thinking of you.....best b