Bernice Moore

PENN JONESB

tODD...you would have to ask Frank ABOUT THE NIX...he made the gif..i see a hesitant stop what you see is your opinion that's mine...b

Lee you may be interested in viewing these two gifs,,one by frank aqbat and the other by john dolva...they show imo the limo really slowing down and then a hesitant stop just long enough for the final head shot to be executed then the limo takes off...like a you know what... if they will upload hopefully...b sorry mr.dolva's will not upload though i downloaded it from this forum it must have been specially uploaded at the time as it is too big a gif..so one out of two for you..for now...

here you go,,, OVERLOOKED MEDICAL EVIDENCE-RELATED GEMS Compiled by Vince Palamara vmplac@telerama.com As of June - 2003, write Vince Palamara at vincebethel@yahoo.com Dr. Charles Crenshaw--- Vindication: WC references to his presence on 11/22/63: 6 H 40 (Baxter), 6 H 31-32 (McClelland), 6 H 80-81 (Salyer), 6 H 141 (Henchcliffe), 6 H 60 (Curtis)+15 H 761: index; :-) :-) :-) Completely overlooked WC reference to his presence on 11/24/63: 21 H 265(report by Parkland Administrator Charles Price)---"Dr. Charles Crenshaw was in the corridor and said they had been alerted. He said, 'You're not going to put him [Oswald] in the same room the President was in, are you?' told him I surely was glad he had thought of it and by all means, not to."; January 1964 "Texas State Journal of Medicine" article entitled "Three Patients at Parkland", p. 72---"Dr. Jenkins recalls that the following physicians were members of the resuscitation team: Drs. Jenkins and Akin…Drs. Gerry Gustafson, Dale Coln, and Charles Crenshaw, all residents in surgery, who were prepared to introduce cannulae into the veins via cutdowns or percutaneous puncture…three members of the staff were performing venous cutdowns, one in each lower extremity and one in the left forearm. These were performed by Drs. Coln, Crenshaw, and Gustafson." ???--- Geraldo's "Now It Can Be Told", 4/2/92 (excerpt inc. on James Fetzer's video "JFK: The Assassination, The Cover-Up, and Beyond", 1994; see p. 93 of Michael; Benson's "Who's Who on the JFK Assassination")--- G. Robert Blakey of the HSCA makes the claim that they did talk to Crenshaw but he "was not the best witness" (?); ---------------- vindication re: Dr. Williams--- some have doubted he was there... 21 H 215 (Nurse Bertha Lozano's report)---"Then the president's body was escorted out. The crowd vanished, and then I felt so confused that I just had to leave the desk for a few minutes. I later went to the dining room with Pat Hutton AND A DR. WILLIAMS and had coffee and afterwards, went home." --------------- Maybe Burkley wasn't all bad--- 22 H 93-97: 11/27/63 report of his activities surrounding the assassination of JFK [see also Manchester, p. 670]---(22 H 94 and 97)"[at Parkland]It was evident that death was imminent and that he was in a hopeless condition."; [at Bethesda]"…his appearance in the casket gave no evidence of the injury he had received.": perhaps because the wound was in the BACK of the head? 11/22/63 Press Conference by Asst. WH Press sec. Mac Kilduff (please see "Best Evidence", pp. 330-331 and photo 28 [Kilduff Press Conference, 11/22/63, Transcript 1327B-LBJ Library; USSS RIF# 154-10002-10194]: "Dr. Burkley told me, it is a simple matter, Tom, of a bullet right through the head": he then points to his right temple! Question: "can you say where the bullet entered his head, Mac?" "It is my understanding that it entered in the temple, the right temple."; "They [the shots] came from the right side." [see Thomas Atkins' film clip as shown in "The Men Who Killed Kennedy", "The Jim Garrison Tapes" video 1992, "JFK: The Case for Conspiracy" video 1993, "High Treason 2", p. 290, Groden's "TKOAP", p. 59; "POTP", p. 408] This information was repeated by Chet Huntley on NBC that day: ""President Kennedy, we are now informed, was shot in the right temple. 'It was a simple matter of a bullet right through the head,' said Dr. George Burkley, the White House medical officer." [NBC video, 11/22/63, 1:47 p.m. CST; clip repeated in Prof. James Fetzer's video "JFK: The Assassination, The Cover-Up, and Beyond"]; "Reasonable Doubt", p. 49 (1982 interview by Henry Hurt+letters of 10/6/82 and 10/14/82)---believed that President Kennedy's assassination was the result of a conspiracy; ----------Larry O'Brien: overlooked--- His book entitled "No Final Victories: A Life in Politics from John F. Kennedy to Watergate" (1974) [see also "Reflections on JFK's Assassiantion" by John B. Jovich (1988), pages 35 and 37]---At Parkland Hospial: "It was chaotic, doctors, nurses running in and out. Medical equipment being wheeled into the room. At one point Jackie and I stepped into the adjoining room where the President's body lay. All I recall is ***I thought he looked as he always had.***" MAYBE BECAUSE THE DAMAGE WAS TO THE REAR OF THE HEAD? ------------ Dave Powers...no, not him, too?!--- Interviewed for Ralph Martin's "A Hero For Our Time" (1983): see esp. pages 519 and 545---Powers appears strongly to be the source for the following sentence: "The third shot tore off the ***top back half of his head "and we could see the hair and all the stuff go right up in the air", an aide said."***; ----------- Elizabeth Wright, WIFE of O.P. Wright--- 21 H 198: page from lengthy/ 10-page (21 H 193-202) 12/11/63 report on activities 11/22-11/24/63 [see also Manchester, p. 675]---"Mr. Wright had somewhere down the line asked me if I could ascertain the path of the bullet---or bullets---determine the path, and find out where the instrument of injury actually was." (!); Chief of Security O.P. Wright-- 21 H 229-332: report of activities 11/22/63---NOTHING about CE399! Part 4 of "CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report" 6/28/67 [see also "Post Mortem", p. 46]---"...I got hold of a Secret Service man and THEY[sic?] didn't seem to be interested in coming and looking at the bullet in the position it was in then. So I went back to the area where Mr. Tomlinson was and picked up the bullet and put it in my pocket, and I carried it some 30 or 40 minutes. And I gave it to a Secret Service man that was guarding the main door into the emergency room..."; for more on this issue, see- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm ----------------------- DR. WILLIAM ZEDLITZ'S PRESENCE AT PARKLAND HOSPITAL ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963, AS VERIFIED BY DR. MARTIN G. WHITE (WARREN COMMISSION VOLUME 6, PAGE 83): Arlen Specter: "And what doctors were present at the time you left the room?" Dr. White: "Well, it would be impossible for me to tell you all the people that were there, but I knew Dr. Carrico, Dr. Baxter, Dr. Perry, and Dr. Zedelitz, Z-e-d-e-l-i-t-z (spelling)---I know they were there." Arlen Specter: "Doctor who---what is his first name?" Dr. White: "William Zedelitz." Arlen Specter: "To what extent did he participate?" Dr. White: "I don't believe that he did any---I don't know what he did other than the fact that when I was doing the cutdown he assisted me by just placing some tape over the catheters we used to do this with." Arlen Specter: "Is he an intern as you are?" Dr. White: "He is a surgical resident here at this hospital." [This is the reason why no one has ever contacted him before---he misspelled his last name!] 11/4/98 mletter from Dr. William Zedlitz to Vince Palamara--- "At first glance the president seemed to be in extremely serious condition as he was not responding to any of the stimuli around him, and obviously had a massive head injury to the right occipito-parietal area (right posterior-lateral) of his cranium. This area was a mass of bloody tissue with multiple skin, hair, and bony fragments matted together with blood and brain tissue and covered an area approximately ten by twelve centimeters in diameter. His left eye also seemed to be bulging from his eyesocket. At this point, Dr. Carrico indicated that he was unable to effectively ventilate the patient via the endotracheal tube. Dr. Baxter and Perry immediately began to perform a tracheostomy. Prior to making the incision, it was noted that a small (5mm to 7mm) hole in the front of the neck below the thyroid cartilage was present. This was in the exact location where the tracheostomy was to be performed. Dr. Baxter and Perry decided to do the procedure by extending the transverse incision on either side of this hole so that the tracheostomy tube ended up being inserted in the site of the former hole."-------------- Robert E. Schorlemer, M.D.--- "I was a senior medical student making rounds in the E.R. (at Parkland Hospital) with second-year surgery resident, Dr. James Carrico, to evaluate who was to be admitted from the night-shift holdovers. We were moving from one stall to another when we heard banging of doors from the triage station at the front of the ER. Shortly thereafter, we heard screaming from the front asking for more stretchers, and right after that Gov. Connally was pushed through the hall door on a gurney. He was wearing a gray silk suit with alligator shoes and was moaning and gasping for air. Red Duke, the chief resident in surgery manning the ER, jumped up from the nurses' station, and we all moved into ER operating room #1 to take care of him. I opened his shirt to see a chest wound on his right side sucking air. Red directed that a Vaseline gauze pad be placed over the wound to help seal the pneumothorax that was produced by this until they could get a chest tube placed. I did this. At that point, Jim Carrico said, "Let's go to the next room to get ready for the next case coming in." As we walked out of the room, President Kennedy was wheeled into the hallway separating the two rooms. In my disbelief, I figured that this had to be his double as no one could believe that the president could be placed in such jeopardy. As one could see, half of the calivarium of the skull had been blown away with the underlying brain exposed and the flap produced lying behind his head. Some agonal movements were being made, and Jim directed that I get the IV started while he tried to intubate him. His comment was, "Boy, I'm lucky to have been able to intubate him because the trachea was severed by one of the bullets." http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/spe.../jfk/index.html [memories: San Antonio/ Houston] ----------- Dr. Donald Curtis--- 9/30/98 letter to Vince Palamara---"1. The wound involving the right posterior lateral surface of the skull appeared to me to be an exit wound or a tangential entrance wound. 2. I am unaware as to the details of the "official story" therefore I am unable to comment on my interpretation." ----------- Dr. Donald Seldin--- 8/27/98 letter to Vince Palamara---"The bullet struck the President in the forehead and literally exploded in his skull, so that the entire frontal, parietal and temporal bones were shattered…I believe that the official story is accurate in all details." [!] ---------- FOR THE DYING/ "DEAD" AGENT, PERHAPS?--- Nurse Bertha Lozano: 21 H 213-215: report of activities 11/22-11/24/63 [see also Manchester, p. 672]---"…obtained a carriage from Booth #5, with the help of Dr. Bill Midgett who helped me roll it out to the entrance."; SEPARATE from JFK and Connally: "A technician came to the desk and asked me to expect a private pateint who was bleeding…Blood technicians came to ask me who "Mr. X" was who did not have an E.R. number. Hematology also came with the same problem and was told the same thing." ------------- Milton T. Wright, Jr. :Texas Highway Patrolman(driver of Mayor Cabell's car): a) 18 H 802: report dated 11/28/63---"At the hospital we unloaded the Governor first and then the President. Then we were instructed to keep the news media away from the car."---nothing specific about the wounds; 8/28/98 letter to Vince Palamara---"…I do recall helping to move the President from the car to the stretcher. As I recall about a 1/4 [quarter] of his head was missing, mostly to the left of the back of the head. I believe he died instantly from the wound I saw."; c) 9/3/98 e-mail to Vince Palamara---" the wound was left ear to back of head, generally." ----------- Dr. Robert Shaw: did he work for LIFE???--- 11/29/63 "Houston Post"---"The assassin was behind him[JFK], yet the bullet entered at the front of his neck. Mr. Kennedy must have turned to his left to talk to Mrs. Kennedy or to wave to someone."... 12/6/63 "Life Magazine" article by Paul Mandel: "the 8 mm. film shows the President turning his body far around to the right as he waves to someone in the crowd. His throat is exposed---towards the sniper's nest---just before he clutches it." (reproduced in "Reasonable Doubt" by Henry Hurt)] ---------- Evelyn Lincoln & Bill Greer: Parkland autopsy???--- Lincoln: 4/21/91 interview with Harry Livingstone for "High Treason 2", pp. 435-437---"…I remember coming into Parkland Hospital, and Dr. Burkley telling me that he [JFK] had gone, and Jackie was sitting outside of the place where he was being kept---they were doing the autopsy or whatever they were doing, and I went up to her and tried to console her."; "I never looked at any of that [the autopsy materials]. Nothing. I kept it, and then Bobby [Kennedy] moved it into another room. It was all sealed up. I never saw any of it…I had no access to it."; "It was a conspiracy. There was no doubt about that...J. Edgar Hoover was involved in it."; "Bloody Treason" by Noel Twyman, p. 831 and "Assassination Science" by James Fetzer,p. 372: 10/7/94 letter to Richard Duncan---"As for the assassination is concerned [sic] it is my belief that there was a conspiracy because there were those that disliked him and felt the only way to get rid of him was to assassinate him. These five conspirators , in my opinion, were Lyndon B. Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover, the Mafia, the CIA, and the Cubans in Florida. The House Intelligence Committee investigation, also, came to the conclusion that there was a conspiracy."[Lincoln conveyed the same thoughts to Anthony Summers: see "The Fourth Decade" journal, May 1998 issue, p. 14]; Greer: "The Asheville (NC) Citizen-Times", 11/6/83 interview of Greer (see "High Treason 2", p. 572 [Palamara provided this to the author] and "The Third Alternative-Survivor's Guilt; The Secret Service and the JFK Murder" by Vince Palamara, p. 22)- "I stayed with (JFK) through the examination and then through the autopsy, and was with him when they put his body in the coffin and took him to Air Force One." --------- Secret Service agent Andy Berger: FBI & CIA at Parkland--- 18 H 795: Secret Service agent Andy Berger (who would go on to drive the hearse containing JFK's body out of Parkland) reported of meeting the following persons at Parkland Hospital shortly after the assassination: a. FBI agent Vincent Drain (sent via Hoover!), the same agent who would go on to accompany Agent Lawson during the transfer of critical assassination evidence later on that weekend; b. "a doctor friend of (Drain)" ; c. an "unidentified CIA agent" who had credentials (like the FBI man sent by Hoover, how could the CIA agent get to the Dallas hospital so soon after the murder?); [see Bill Sloan's "Breaking the Silence", pp. 181-185###; "The Man Who Knew Too Much", numerous--see esp. pages 570-571 [see also "Who's Who in the JFK Assassination" by Michael Benson (1993), pp. 40-41])] ### March 1993 interview of Parkland Hospital Chief telephone operator Phyllis Bartlett ("JFK: Breaking The Silence", p. 185)---"…Ms. Bartlett…recalled conversing at the time of the assassination with a man fitting Hugh Howell's description. "My little office was overflowing with as many as fifty people at once back then," she said, "but I do remember talking to a short man with a crewcut who identified himself in that capacity [CIA], and I do believe he said his name was Howell."; d. an "unidentified FBI agent" [J. Doyle Williams]who did not have credentials.; ---------- Another "J.D."...and this one ain't Tippit... Nurse "J.D.", from San Angelo, Texas: Page 69 of Abigail ("Dear Abby") Van Buren's 1993 book entitled "Where were you when President Kennedy was Shot?" [all writers were shielded with anonymity via initials]---"When Kennedy was shot, I was at Parkland---a student nurse. I heard all the department chiefs being paged. I saw all the press buses arriving; watched the E.R. grow crowded; saw Jackie in her bloodstained pink suit. Thirty years later, I find it hard to believe I was there."; ----------------------- Brad Parker has learned that the article, "Three Patients at Parkland", while based on the original reports made by the Parkland doctors, incorporated subtle changes which he was told were made by none other than Dr. Marion Jenkins! EXAMPLE--- WR 526-527 / 17 H 11-12 / CE 392: Dr. Robert McClelland's report written 11/22/63---"…a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea…The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple."; d) January 1964 Texas State Journal of Medicine article "Three Patients at Parkland", p. 63---repeats the gist of his 11/22/63 report, but with one change"…a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea…The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the ***right side of the head.***" Re: Parkland Hospital circa 1963-1964: "It is adjacent to and is the major teaching hospital for the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School. It is staffed by the faculty of the medical school and has 150 interns and residents in all medical specialties." ("Texas State Journal of Medicine", January 1964, Vol. 60, p. 61) [i have over 175---see below] January 1964 Texas State Journal of Medicine article "Three Patients at Parkland", p. 73---"The [Oswald] operating team consisted of Drs. Shires, McClelland, Perry, and Jones. The anesthesia team consisted of Drs. Akin, Jenkins, and Dr. Harlan Pollock, resident on anesthesiology." 9/8/98 letter from Dr. Donald Jackson [21 H 171, 205, 215] to Vince Palamara---"I continue to be dissatisfied with the explanation of the Warren Commission. The reason for my skepticism is linked to discrepancies in descriptions of the Kennedy wounds between the Parkland Emergency Room and the autopsy findings. Drs. McClelland, Perry, and Jenkins gave accurate descriptions of the wounds as they saw them in the Emergency Room."; 9/8/98 letter from Dr. William Risk ["JFK: Conspiracy of Silence", p. 183; 3 H 384; January 1964 Texas State Journal of Medicine article "Three Patients at Parkland", pages 72 and 73 re: involvement in treatment of LHO; "The Search For Lee Harvey Oswald" by Robert Groden (1995), p. 202]to Vince Palamara---"...as a physician, I have the feeling there was more than one "shooter" and more than one bullet involved because of the nature of the wounds. I would suggest that, if you have not already done so, you get a copy of an article from the Journal of the Texas Medical Association, January 1964, entitled "Three Patients at Parkland." This article is a MEDICAL version of those days. The wounds described there, to me, suggest entrance and exit wounds which differ from the "one bullet theory." 9/98 letter from Dr. Adolph Giesecke to Vince Palamara---"I did not examine the President's head and should never have said anything about the wounds. (I testified to the Warren Commission that the wound was on the left side. That was obviously wrong)…I hope you become convinced that there was only one gunman, Oswald, and all entry wounds were from the rear." [!] Ironically, Giesecke included with his letter a photocopy of the "Three Patients At Parkland" article that includes medical information that greatly contradicts this view. Vince More irony: 8/26/98 letter from Dr. Malcolm Perry to Vince Palamara---"I did not inspect the head wound---I was much too busy. The only person who carefully evaluated the head wound was Dr. Kemp Clark, Chief of Neurosurgery (no one could be better qualified). His testimony (and mine) is in the Warren Report. His findings are consistent with those described by Dr. Hume et al during the autopsy." PERRY, BEFORE POSNER GOT TO HIM: a) WR 521-522/ 17 H 6-7/ CE392: report written 11/22/63---"A large wound of the right posterior cranium…"; Parkland press conference, 11/22/63 [see "Assassination Science", pp. 419-427; silent film clip used in "Reasonable Doubt" (1988), "20/20" (4/92), etc.]---"There was an entrance wound in the neck…It appeared to be coming at him…The wound appeared to be an entrance wound in the front of the throat; yes, that is correct. The exit wound, I don't know. It could have been the head or there could have been a second wound of the head." (apparently, based off this conference, the Associated Press dispatch on 11/22/63 stated that Dr. Perry "said the entrance wound was in the front of the head," while all the AP wires for this day stated that JFK had a large hole in the "back" of his head.); c) UPI report published in the "New York World Telegram & Sun", 11/22/63 (see also the 11/23/63 "San Francisco Chronicle" [Groden's "TKOAP", p. 76])---"There was an entrance wound below his Adam's apple. There was another wound in the back of his head."; d) Filmed interview by Bob Welch, WBAP-TV/ NBC (Texas News), 11/23/63 [available on the video "Kennedy In Texas" (1984) and, in edited form, on "The Two Kennedys" (1976)]---"He had a severe, lethal wound"; "There was a neck wound anteriorly and a large wound of his head in the right posterior area."; "passage of the bullet through the neck"; "chest tubes were put in place"; mentions the presence of Drs. Seldin and Bashour [this was the second conference that weekend---21 H 265: "this was a final conference to give reporters who had missed earlier conferences a chance to hear from (the) medical team and to answer their questions."]; AND DR. KEMP CLARK: a) WR 516-518/ 17 H 1-3 / CE 392 [undated summary; see also 21 H 150-152 :Clark's 11/23/63 report to Admiral Burkley with the verbatim summary . In addition, see "Assassination Science", pp. 416-418: this is an FBI report dated 11/25/63 which includes the verbatim summary to Burkley from 11/23/63]---"..in the occipital region of the skull…"; "There was a large wound in the right occipitoparietal region…"; "Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound."; WR 524-525/ 17 H 9-10 /CE 392: handwritten report 11/22/63---"The President was bleeding profusely from the back of the head . There was a large (3 x 3 cm) remnant of cerebral tissue present…there was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also"; "There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region…"; c) Parkland Press conference, 11/22/63, 3:16 PM CST ["Assassination Science", pp. 427]---" A missile had gone in or out of the back of his head…the back of his head…I was busy with his head wound…The head wound could have been either the exit wound from the neck or it could have been a tangential wound, as it was simply a large, gaping loss of tissue."; ----------------- 10/13/98 letter from Dr. Ronald Jones to Vince Palamara----"I recently testified on August 27, 1998 before the Assassination Review Panel regarding several issues including these that you ask. I was located on the left side of President Kennedy, the region of his left chest, where I inserted the left chest tube and did a cut down on the left arm to place an IV line. As a result I did not have clear view of the back side of the head wound. President Kennedy had very thick dark hair that covered the injured area. In my opinion it was in the occipital area in the back of the head. Because the scalp partially covered the wound I cannot give an exact size of the defect in the skull. There was no obvious injury to the face. The wound in the neck was very small, perhaps no larger than 1/4 of an inch and the wound in the back of the head was much larger. It was for this reason that I initially thought that the injury to the neck was an entrance wound. During the time the President was at Parkland Hospital the physicians did not roll him over after he was pronounced dead and thus did not appreciate the wound in the back which was discovered at autopsy." ---------- >From Life, Nov 1983 v6 p48(24) 4 days that stopped America; the Kennedy assassination, 20 years later. Doris G. Kinney; Marcia Smith; Penny Ward Moser.---- At 1:15 Doris Nelson was eating lunch with other nurses in the Parkland Hospital cafeteria. "We were talking about what would happen if the President was in a car wreck or something," she remembers. "I said they'd never bring him here, they'd take him to a hospital in town." When Nelson returned to the emergency room, the phone was ringing. "It was the switchboard operator. she said, 'Doris, the President's been shot, and he'll be here in five minutes.' I said, 'Yes, Phyllis [bartlett], so what else is new?'" At first, nobody believed Nelson either. "By the time I got two doctors and the head nurse convinced, they were rolling him down the hall." Nelson was emergency room supervisor. "As I looked around, I didn't see anyone from the higher echelon in the hospital, so I thought, 'Doris, you've got it.'" Connally came first. "He had been pretty badly wounded, and his skin was real pale. So I just ripped off his shirt to see where the injuries were. I put him in Trauma Two. Right behind him came the President. Jackie was walking beside him. A rose was lying across the stretcher. I put him in Trauma One." While physicians hovered over the President, Nelson stood at the door, screening the flow of nurses, doctors and Secret Service agents. "At one point, Jackie decided to go into the room when they were doing a tracheotomy on him. I though it was not in her best interest or in the best interest of the patient or the physicians. I suggested she wait outside. But the agent in charge said that if she wished to go in, that was her prerogative." Nelson was impressed by the First Lady. "Amazed at how poised she was. I asked her if she would like to remove her gloves and wash her hands, and she said, 'No, thank you, I'm fine.' She seemed almost in a trance.c Nelson herself was on automatic pilot. "About an hour after it was over, someone brought me a cup of coffee. My hands started shaking so, I couldn't hold it. That's when it hit me." (Doris Nelson dies last month of liver cander at 52, shortly after she gave this interview.) In the same article, Nurse Nelson showed a LIFE photographer the location of the head wound: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/nelson.jpg For more--- Medical evidence compilation (everything but the kitchen sink): http://www.mindcushion.com/jfk/MedEvEarly1.html For everything(!)-- MY NEW BOOK, "JFK: THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE REFERENCE" (339 PAGES), praised by Dr. Gary Aguilar, Robert Groden, John McAdams, Brad Parker, and many others, is available for $30 exclusively via "The Last Hurrah Bookshop": http://members.aol.com/jfkhurrah/ Andrew Winiarczyk Proprietor 849 W. Third St. #1 Williamsport, Pennsylvania 17701 717/321-1150 (Phone and Fax) Vince Palamara

pat i think you told me in a post probably in this thread somewhere's that no one had stated they had seen a right rear head wound..but they did two were SSA Sam Kinney the driver of the follow up car the Queen Mary stated he saw the right rear of the President's head come off and Clint Hill W/C right rear i think he also talks about how the truunk the rear of the limo was covered with matter... i will check Kilduff but doesn't he say something like that burkley said it was a simple matter of a bullet right through the head or some such along those lines going by memory here and i could be wrong but if so doesn't a bullet right through the head or brain mean through from one side to another of the head..imo anyway i will check...ta b..

don't feel bad fella's been there done that it probably simply means your included now in as some call the ''merry band'' b

no need for an aplogy Kathy not your doing all Duke had to do at the time was email me from the forum and ask but he chose not to and apparently only compared parts of what had been posted, but went ahead and posted his suppositions anyway.. and yes i recall that which you mentioned a nice red line scoring the information which imo now was and is ruined, i learned many years ago you never alter nor touch in any way any documentaion nor photos, enlargements yes but nothing further...but as we know some do so continually and imo should never..as they need to show off their paint program skills i imagine..ta b..

here is a copy of zap 317 that bill miller posted for us some time ago fwiw..b and also enlarged...b

So there ya have it. Does this prove the Z-film a "hoax" or "altered" with regard to the limousine stopping or not based upon 59 witnesses' statements "all" saying it stopped? I think not; what thinks ye?" -------------------- Kathy there was no quick reply below to reply to this so when i hit reply all was repeated i want to comment on what duke surmized..''Some of the ellipses and comments are in the original (or may be Bernice's?).I made no comments nor eclipses additions etc..it was copied exactly as found.I CHANGE NOTHING AND NEVER HAVE IN POSTING ANY INFORMATION..and never shall..TA ..b

thanks Jack that shows them much closer...i found this oldie in the files i have no idea if still out there and i do not count on the link to activate, may be some info from within the book in this critique..thanks b...below is one of the hoffman photos that goodman took b.. DATABITZ 2 January 27, 1996 by Martin Shackelford Triangle of Fire by Bob Goodman Harold Norman confirms to Goodman that he heard shells hitting the floor.(p. 77) The Dal-Tex Building: p. 87: discussion of the tenants of the building p. 215: man with horn-rimmed glasses (photos pp. 212-213) arrested in Dal-Tex tells Goodman his attorney has advised him not to discuss the matter. p. 216: Jim Braden may have visited Dallas Uranium and Oil rather than looking for a pay phone, as he was upstairs. DU&O was located on the west side of Dal-Tex, behind the fire-escape (the window from which a rifle allegedly protrudes?) pp. 216-217: There were no corporate records of Dallas Uranium & Oil; Texas Secretary of State only listed Morty Freedman Inc., which shared a phone number with Dallas Uranium & Oil, and with Marilyn Belt Mfg. (directory page, p. 243). DU&O may have been a dummy corporation. p. 217: Dallas area people in the uranium business were few, and included Nelson Bunker Hunt and Morris Jaffe, the latter a close friend of LBJ. Some believed he owned the Dal-Tex Building. p. 218: Jaffe benefited from decisions made by the Atomic Energy Commission under chairman John McCone, successor to Dulles as CIA chief. Jaffe took over the bankrupt Billy Sol Estes estate. Jaffe and H.L. Hunt worked together for LBJ in 1960 at the Los Angeles convention. A reporter described Jaffe as the "money man...the brains...the trouble-shooter...and smart beyond imagination."(Jules Archer) The Cover-Up: pp. 91-92: Goodman reports that the widow of a retired Air Force Intelligence man told him her husband had been offered a job in 1974 in Dallas writing disinformation about the JFK assassina- tion along with a few other people. The group included a lady from Dallas, a friend of theirs, and two others. All were civilians. The lady worked for a Dallas law firm. Oil money paid the tab. p. 94: The disinformation layers were: Communists/Russia, Castro/Cuba, The C.I.A., and the Mafia. p. 98: Goodman refers to the Dallas group as "the disinformation society," and notes areas of research with which they won't cooperate: Dal-Tex, H.L. Hunt, Clint Murchison, Gen. Charles Cabell, the Del Charro Hotel, Dallas Citizens' Council. (all neglected areas of research in the mainstream community; the exceptions include Penn Jones and Anthony Summers). p. 100: JFK eliminated funding for the White Russian Solidarists, many of whom in the Dallas area were associated with the oil industry. Oswald's Wallet: p. 96: Although Oswald's wallet was seized by police, Goodman notes Oswald left his wallet and money with Marina at the Paine home that morning. (He may have had two wallets, or have left the money but not the wallet). James Worrell: p. 121: hearing 4 shots, seeing a man leave the rear of the Depository. p. 122: the man was about 5'7" to 5'10", 155-165 lbs., dark hair, dark sports coat, not carrying anything. p. 123: died in a "car-motorcycle accident" on Nov. 9, 1966; found lying in a ditch; friends reported James' motorcycle was parked on the kickstand, and the motor was still running when he was found. Ed Hoffman: p. 127: usually described as shy, Hoffman allegedly approached Goodman and identified himself as an eyewitness. p. 130: Goodman's photos give a good indication that Hoffman could have seen what he has reported seeing from his location on Stemmons. The Oil Industry: pp. 138-139: notes Garrison's reports of an oil industry man who was familiar with Guy Banister's part of the Garrison probe before it was publicized, and offered Garrison a federal judgeship to drop the JFK investigation. Goodman suggests the story may be true, but that Garrison may have made a deal to simply change the focus of the investigation from the oil industry to the CIA. Edwin Walker: p. 155: Robert Surrey's comment (Walker aide) to the Dallas Times-Herald on Nov. 24, 1963 that "through official sources, we had traced that man who shot at the general to California." Walker pushed for the assassination investigations to be all held in Dallas. p. 155-6: Walker's associate Billy James Hargis (Feb. 1963 nationwide crusade). p. 158: Carlos Bringuier spoke in a lecture series sponsored by Hargis. H.L. Hunt: p. 167: Hunt:"Everything I do, I do for a profit." Organizing support for LBJ in 1960."Patriotism is always profitable." p. 168: mailed out 102,000 of an anti-Catholic sermon by W.A. Criswell, pastor of his church, during the 1960 campaign. Hunt proposed another member of the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Billy Graham, as a 1964 presidential candidate, but Graham declined the idea. p. 169: DPD Lt. George Butler sponsored a talk by Hunt to the Dallas Police Association at the Baker Hotel, shortly before the Bay of Pigs invasion. Butler also provided police security for Hunt. Butler offered a local newspaper editor a printing job for the KKK, to which he said half the Dallas Police belonged. p. 170: Walker aide Robert Surrey had the financial backing of Hunt's companies. p. 171: Hunt hated black people and the civil rights movement. p. 172: Hunt stated JFK was a traitor and should be shot. Craig Zirbel reports Hunt admitting prior knowledge of a conspiracy to assassinate JFK. The Hyatt Regency at Reunion, where the first three ASK conferences were held, was owned by the Hunt family. p. 173: Hunt blamed the assassinations of JFK & MLK on communist plots. Clint Murchison: p. 185: In 1951, Murchison and H.L. Hunt organized the pro-MacArthur campaign in Texas, bringing the general to Texas for a speaking tour. The three were photographed together in front of the Alamo. p. 186: D.H. Byrd, owner of the Texas School Book Depository, was one of the Del Charro crowd who regularly stayed at Murchison's exclu- sive La Jolla, California hotel. Oilman Byrd was a co-founder of the Civil Air Patrol. Bobby Baker received money from a Murchison company, the Haitian American Company. [Note DeMohrenschildt's Texas and Haitian connections]. Baker associate Thomas D. Webb Jr. represented the Murchison interests in Washington. pp. 186-187: Also implicated in the Baker scandal were an admiral, a general, and a NASA executive, and the representative of a major Texas defense contractor, unnamed by LIFE. p. 187: Murchison-owned publisher Holt, RInehart and Winston (publisher of Rush to Judgement, whose index doesn't include Murchison, Judge Joe B. Brown or DeMohrenschildt) offered Judge Joe B. Brown a lucrative book contract and an all-expenses paid trip to Del Charro during the Jack Ruby trial (July 21, 1964). He received a $10,000 advance for a book that was never published. The trip was paid for directly by the Murchisons. The publisher paid for his trip to New York City. This gave Murchison access to the manuscript. p. 188: Murchison and Thomas Webb knew Ruby; DeMohrenschildt knew Murch- ison and worked for one of his companies. The Vito Genovese Mafia family owned 20% of the Murchison Oil Lease Company in the early 1950's. From 1955-1965, Murchison's business were the subject of Federal probes. pp. 188-189: Murchison owned the Del Mar race track, which employed Sirhan Sirhan, and where J. Edgar Hoover often attended. p. 189: Hoover recommended that Murchison hire Thomas D. Webb Jr., a 17 year FBI veteran and one of Hoover's administrative assistants. Murchison:"Money is like manure. If you spread it around, it does a lot of good." Murchison tried to drive Ross Perot's computer company out of business. p. 190: Perot's wealth wasn't based in oil, he was an equal opportunity employer, and he never applied to join the Dallas Citizens Council. p. 199: Murchison funded the anti-Semitic press, and Lincoln Rockwell's Nazis. Earwitnesses: p. 201: Goodman talked with people who heard, but didn't see, the assassination. Shots sounded like a string of loud firecrackers; or "Baboom...boom-ba-boom....boom-ba-boom-boom"; more than 3 shots. One witness thought he was hearing a shootout, with Secret Service firing back. spot.acorn.net/JFKpla.../2data

yes Jack he did sell a newspaper in Dealey he was there for many months in Dallas gathering information then left and wrote his book...i have no idea if he was ever connected to the C.M he may have been during that time...i will dig out the book and see if he mentions anything..he was one of the two boys in the first pergola he said...seen below...b

yes it seems it was bell's story..this is what i have found...info is from book '' triangle of fire'' by bob goodman...i believe.. 324) Alan Smith: a) "Chicago Tribune", 11/23/63, p. 9 [see also "Murder From Within", p. 71]---"…The car was ten feet from me when a bullet hit the President in the fore-head…the car went about five feet and stopped." [see Dr. Seldin, DPD Chaney, and Bill Newman, above; "Triangle of Fire" author Bob Goodman claimed to be Alan Smith during a 1992 interview with Ian Griggs. Goodman does claim to be an eyewitness in his book---on page 3, he states that "One of the bullets hit the President in his forehead."]; "Murder In Dealey Plaza" by James Fetzer (2000), pages 123, 342 1.[PDF] The JFK Assassination Medical Reference: Part 6 File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View "JFK" (1991) [see also pages 12 and 582 of "JFK: The Book of the Film"]; ... and Bill Newman, above; "Triangle of Fire" author Bob Goodman claimed to be. Alan Smith during a 1992 interview with Ian Griggs. Goodman does claim to be ... www.assassinationresearch.com/v4n2/v4n2part6.pdf sorry it the link will not enable you will have to copy and paste it in google...b

JACK.... Where, also, is the schoolboy, Alan Smith, who was widely quoted on 23 November in US newspapers? Smith said unequivocally the head shot had struck Kennedy in the forehead, which would strongly suggest he was in front of the President at the time. Now scan the films – he, too, has vanished. (“The car was ten feet from me when a bullet hit the President in the forehead…the car went about five feet and stopped,” Jack Bell, “Eyewitnesses describe scene of assassination: Sounds of shooting brought car to a halt,” NYT, 23 November 1963, p.5) Minor contradictions between witnesses and films I could accept and rationalise. Wholesale, irreconcilable conflicts, not a chance. Paul Didn't Smith (Bob Goodman)say he was in the pergola???? The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Shortcut to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...10829&st=45 B..

Barb see pages 46 and 47 of David Lifton's Pig on a Leash...and so on...B ''Nevertheless, I did learn that night just how he had obtained prints of such clarity: there was a lab in New York City where Life had sent the film for enlargement in the late 1960s, and he had some connection with that lab. He would not provide any details, but this lab (I now realized) was the source of the extraordinary Z film materials I had seen at Time Life’s Beverly Hills office in June 1970. This fellow “Robert” had worked there, obviously had access to an optical printer at that facility, clearly knew how to operate it; had “borrowed” a negative, and that was the source of his ultra-high quality prints. End of story, or at least, that’s about how much I learned that night. Either at this meeting or later—I learned what was special about this lab. Normally, optical printers are designed to work in professional format—i.e., either in 16mm or 35mm. But the owner (who it turned out was Moses (“Moe”) Weitzman, had made a special “shuttle” device, modifying his optical printer to accept 8 mm film. Consequently, around 1967, the 8mm original Z film (which LIFE purchased in November 1963) could be put into the standard optical printer, and then blown up, i.e., magnified, in one step, to 35mm. An important point needs to be made here. Weitzman had nothing whatever to do with the alteration of the original Zapruder film which occurred in November, 1963 in connection with its sale to LIFE—but Moe had everything to do (around 1967) with restoring the film to this “oversized” or “magnified” format, one crucial to collecting data on which all theories of film alteration are based because only in such enlarged format is crucial detail visible and measurable. Let me explain. To alter the Zapruder film, initially, it was probably necessary to “bump it up” to 16, and more likely 35. At that time, and after alterations were made, the edited film (i.e. altered in 16mm or 35 mm format) would have to be “reduced” back down to 8mm. So LIFE was sold an 8mm film—which arrived either as an 8mm film, but possibly as a 16mm film which had the assassination on “side 2”. [Pig on a Leash (2003); By David S. Lifton] 47 For all practical purposes, once the film was slit (and then in 8mm format), it was impossible to study with precision. The images were just too small. If I may introduce another analogy: a forger blows up a check, works on fabricating a signature in some enlarged format, then reduces the check back down to ordinary size. Years later, in connection with forensic investigation, it becomes useful to take the forgery and re-magnify it, to “blow it back up” to an oversized state. Why? Because various anomalies are most easily studied in that oversized format. That would be akin to what happened when LIFE sent its “original” to Moe Weitzman in 1967. He had nothing to do with the original (November 1963) alteration; but everything to do with creating an enlarged version crucial for future study. And Robert Groden ended up with negatives and prints from that endeavor. While it is true that Groden did some additional work on the film, the essential clarity of the film comes from Moe Weitzman’s ingenuity, when he went from “8 to 35” in one step, and not anything Groden did. It was as if Weitzman had climbed 90 percent of the way up Everest; Groden went the last 10 percent. Because of Weitzman’s ingenuity, the jump from 8mm to 35mm had been made optically, in one step. And once a 35mm optical negative had been created, the rest was standard operating procedure: creating 35mm prints; 16mm “reduction” prints, etc.12 From this first meeting, it was clear that Groden was connected with the lab to which LIFE had sent the original (around 1967), and which created the materials I had seen in June 1970. But just who was he? And what were his credentials? Who is Robert Groden''

robert a ruby note...b

[During the early 1990's in Dallas, there was a JFK Assassination Research Center in Dallas, I believe Larry Howard was the proprietor of it. Anyway the Center had "letters that Jack Ruby had written while in prison," although described by some as "long and rambling" the letters contained strange references to things such as "pogroms against the Jews." I never had the opportunity to peruse the documents, but have always been curious about them. Is there anyone here on the forum who is familiar with this aspect of Ruby, who may have the ability to post the letters on the forum or, provide their own insights into the material? ROBERT I HAVE A FEW OF HIS LETTERS THOUGH I HAVE NO IDEA EXACTLY HOW MANY THERE WERE AND I HAVE NO ANALYSIS OF THEM FWTAW...EXCUSE CAPS THANKS...B IF ANY DOUBLE I WILL DELETE THEM...THE LAST PHOTO IS OF HIS PARENTS ...

the link to martin hindrichs' information here on the forum in barb, jerry's and tink's article that i believe some have asked for... http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...105#entry170238 b..

(Bolds mine.)It is always this way-- how very sad. We miss alot of thought from the silent majority who do not wish to be branded disinfo agents,or neocons, for disagreeing. Thank you, Kathy. And I agree. The more the mainstream people speak out, the less power to intimidate and divert & distract from real discussion the "predictables" have. Never too late to turn the tide. We're both moms ... you know the parenting skills for dealing with tantrums.... Bests to you! Barb :-) BUT PRAY TELL GIRLS WHY LEAVE OUT THE MENTION OF THE ZILLION OF TIMES ON THE BOARDS that are still available to view THE ALTERATIONISTS HAVE BEEN JUMPED ON..for their view...SO ''We miss alot of thought from the silent majority who do not wish to be branded THAT GOes BOTH WAYS SOME WHO HAVE OR WOULD AGREE DO NOT POST BECAUSE OF SUCH PAst and continuing performances do not try to make this out as sooooo one sided as usual kathy as that is simply not true..if anyone is in doubt simply do a search...excuse the caps thankyou b..

It was Bernice Moore who kindly posted the link over here, Doug. At that time i wasn't a member of this forum here. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...14532&st=75 Posting#77 I will state something about my study soon but i wait for something which will have to be arrived here at my home the next days. Meanwhile i thank you both Doug and Jerry for your very kind words. Take care Sincerely Martin MARTIN, DOUG, A NIGGLE.... MARTIN IS THAT YOUR STUDY WAS POSTED ALONG IN A PAGE RE THREAD THE ARTICLE THAT TINK, BARB AND JERRY POSTED IN ONE OF THE LATER PAGES...IT COULD BE... .TAKE CARE...BEST B..

john i realized that AFTER of course..ta b

Thanks, Dean...for the offer of help. Young people like you who were raised on computers think all this is easy because it IS to you. I did not learn (self-taught) to use a computer till I was 64; I am now 83...so I know how to do stuff, BUT DO NOT UNDERSTAND TECH ASPECTS. I have used a Mac competently for 19 years TO DO THINGS I NEED TO DO. But learning NEW stuff is tough for me. I only have time to do stuff...not to learn new things to do. An analogy: I have driven a car competently for more than 60 years, but have only a faint idea what is under the hood or what makes it work. They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks...well, keep in mind that I am a VERY OLD DOG. Thanks. Jack hear hear on not bringing down the ruddy long threads, such a waste of resources think of that when you or whomever does...and give the forum a break that john has enabled for all, abuse it like anything else and it eventually will not be there goes for all..... though this has been discussed in the past there are some who constantly and will continue to do so...and JACK A SELF TAUGHT HERE AS WELL MY SON SAID..HERE IS A PC this is how to turn it on HERE IS A BOOK READ...and left.EEK....i admit i did crash a few pcs in my time each a learning experience i told..myself .lol. .yeah for the old doggers..though imo your too sharp to be called one yet ....if half on here retain half your ability at your age if they see it that is...they shall be most fortunate..they don't make em like you jack anymore.. ..include me in there as well jack am proud to say,in the getting up there.. as the years do fly....take good care and best to Sue...b..

'Jerry Logan' date='Jan 7 2010, 08:18 AM' post='177899']

THANKS JERRY BUT I DO BELIEVE I SHALL WAIT AND SEE...I CAN ALMOST HEAR IT NOW...ARTIFACTS YADA YADA THANKS FOR YOUR THOUGHTS...PERHAPS I AM BECOMING SOMEWHAT JADED BEING IN THIS AND READING TOO MUCH AND INTO IT TOO LONG, AND THAT CAN HAPPEN, I AM SIMPLY HOPING HER WORK AND THEIRS WILL BE GIVEN AN HONEST HEARING AND REAL STUDY BEFORE BEING JUMPED ON BUT..SOMETHING TELLS ME BUT..SEEN IT IN THE PAST MANY TIMES..WITH MANY A NEW STUDY AND IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN..I HAVE NO DOUBT AGAIN, I SHALL WAIT AND SEE..THANKS AGAIN...B

thanks Jerry what came to mind and I am pointing out and hoping that this use of a 5th generation copy wshe bought will not be or tried to be used and given down the road as a ''W'ell never know'' excuse because of such...but i already am getting that iffy...we shall see as all progresses..thanks take care..b