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Everything posted by David Von Pein
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Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Just like with the word "discredited", CTers also have their own unique definition of the word "lied". http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-124/The Way Vincent Bugliosi Presents The CTers' Arguments https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/#Reclaiming-History-Errors -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Bull. It shows the motorcade turning directly onto STEMMONS from MAIN. And how does one manage to get from Main to Stemmons? Answer --- Hop over to Houston and then Elm. That's how. Traffic is not permitted to go directly from MAIN to STEMMONS. Therefore, as I mentioned before in this thread, the HOUSTON and ELM turns are, in effect, IMPLIED in this 11/22 DMN map, even though those two turns aren't spelled out specifically on the map. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
So YOU say. But I certainly don't hold that opinion. Not even close, in fact. And NONE of the official investigative bodies held that opinion about the evidence either. (But, naturally, nothing the WC or HSCA ever said means a hill of beans to you, does it Jim?) Of course, CTers have a very different definition of what the word "discredited" means when compared to an LNer. Take Jim DiEugenio's beliefs regarding Linnie Randle, Buell Frazier, and the "large paper bag", for instance. Jim actually thinks that Frazier and Randle just invented the bag. They just made it up (per Jim)! So that ultra-silly belief contributes to his overall belief that the "bag evidence" has been discredited. To me, though, a true case of something (or somebody) being "discredited" would be Roger D. Craig. If that guy's tales about seeing "7.65 Mauser" stamped on the TSBD rifle haven't been "discredited", then nothing has ever been discredited in any murder case ever. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
I know that's what he MEANT. But that's not what he SAID, is it? As for Rich calling me a "jerk" and saying that I'm only interested in "stirring the pot" just to get people "riled up" ---- Well, I think it's a good idea for an LNer (like me) to occasionally remind people of what the ACTUAL EVIDENCE is in the JFK and Tippit cases, and to spell it out in black and white. And that "actual evidence" isn't going anywhere anytime soon. OSWALD'S rifle and the pictures of OSWALD holding the Kennedy murder weapon and OSWALD'S lies and the eyewitness testimony to OSWALD murdering J.D. Tippit are always going to be there. And it's important to remind people about all of that "Oswald" stuff every now and again---so that the CTers don't get the silly idea that their preposterous "Oswald Never Shot Anybody" theories are the only theories on the table when it comes to Internet discussions pertaining to the Kennedy and Tippit murders. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Yeah, sure you do. And it's got "C2766" stamped on it too, right? -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Carcano Rifle C2766 was Lee Harvey Oswald's gun, as of March 20, 1963. (Tons of paperwork to prove that fact.) http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/12/oswald-ordered-rifle.html A rifle was seen by Marina in the Paine garage in Sept. or Oct. of 1963. That rifle was missing from its known storage location in Ruth Paine's garage on 11/22/63. C2766 was the JFK murder weapon. C2766 was found on the sixth floor, TSBD, on 11/22. A newborn baby could do this math. But for some reason, it always eludes a conspiracy theorist. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Yep. The merry-go-round with the ABO CTers never ends, does it? They'll continue to ignore all the signs of LHO's guilt till the cows come a-knockin'. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Why not? Oswald's rifle was definitely the murder weapon. Oswald's prints are on the rifle. Oswald's prints are on various objects inside the Sniper's Nest (where we know President Kennedy's assassin was located). Oswald definitely lied to Wes Frazier (and the police) about "the package" and its contents. (So we know the package contained something LHO wanted to hide.) Oswald had easy access to the sixth floor on 11/22. Oswald had rifle training in the Marine Corps (which certainly made him a better rifleman than your average guy on the street). It all adds up to ----- Oswald. And nobody else. http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/oswald-timeline-part-1.html -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Thank you, David L., for your reply. I appreciate the information. I think, however, that it's a very difficult task to try and determine in any definitive way what a person's overall demeanor and attitude might be by just looking at one photograph taken of that person. If you'll recall, Johnnie Cochran attempted a similar trick when he was defending O.J. Simpson for double murder in 1995, when Cochran tried to convince the jury through the use of a videotape that Simpson was very happy and congenial just a few hours before his ex-wife was murdered, and therefore Simpson couldn't possibly be the real killer. But, as everybody knows, sometimes looks can be very deceiving. Now, if I wanted to engage in another round of Dueling Photographs, I would then make use of the picture below, which shows Governor John Connally standing up in the Presidential limousine at Love Field in Dallas prior to JFK getting into the car. And look at the expression on Connally's face. Does he look worried or concerned or frightened here? I don't think so. But does this picture mean that the Governor wasn't worried about anything at that particular moment? No, I don't think it proves that either.... -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Well, let's just examine a picture from a different JFK motorcade.... There's this photo below taken in Fort Worth on the morning of 11/22/63 (with the President standing up in the car). Do you think the car is going above 25-35 MPH here? Not a chance. Particularly since the President is standing at the time and the car is turning a corner. And also take note of the fact that there are no Secret Service agents at all riding outside any of the cars here (or walking alongside JFK's car). The SS follow-up car in the Fort Worth motorcade wasn't the Cadillac stretch limo that was used in Dallas. In Fort Worth, we can see that the SS used just a regular sedan and all of the agents had to sit INSIDE the car (while keeping the doors open slightly so they could get out quickly if needed). There were no running boards to stand on. And, also unlike Dallas, there were no built-in steps (or platforms) on the back of JFK's car in Fort Worth either. Which means, from those specific standpoints I just mentioned, the "security" that was in place in Dallas was actually better than the security utilized for the Fort Worth parade just an hour earlier. But to hear conspiracy theorists tell the story, the security surrounding JFK's limo in Dallas was the worst that has ever existed. But when we look at just a few photos of other Kennedy motorcades, such as the one below from Fort Worth and these additional examples, we can see that that just is not the case at all. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
That's absolute nonsense, David, and you surely must know it. The Secret Service took President Kennedy around HUNDREDS of regular 90-degree turns (like the one from Main to Houston) during JFK's three years in office. Therefore, it's ridiculous to think that the regular Main-to-Houston turn was against "SS protocol". It obviously WASN'T. As for the sharper Elm turn --- that turn was obviously not a major concern to the Secret Service on 11/22 either---otherwise they WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT. Period. Plus, we know the limo totally STOPPED on two occasions during the Dallas parade. And if you think slowing the car to below 35 MPH is a protocol violation (which it obviously is not, since the car was going BELOW that speed for almost the ENTIRE motorcade through Dallas), then what would be a COMPLETE STOP in your view? That must be a horrific "violation", right? The CTers who scream "IT WAS AGAINST SECRET SERVICE RULES" are merely repeating what is very likely yet another conspiracy-flavored myth. I doubt any such "Rules" even existed in '63. And even if they DID exist "on the books", it's obvious that such "Rules" were not always strictly followed. Nor COULD they be, unless you believe that the SS would be whisking JFK through cities and towns at above 44 MPH (which is the figure I usually hear from the Conspiracy Mongers when this "protocol" topic pops up). And that's just silly. The motorcades through large crowds never went that fast. That's total B.S. And you HAVE to know why. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Oh, yes, I forgot about having to factor in the constant refrain coming from Conspiracy Fantasists of: "All Of These Pictures Are Fakes, Therefore I Can't Use Them To Prove My Point". So sorry. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Yeah, David, but the HOUSTON and ELM turns are still nevertheless IMPLIED in all of the various maps that say only MAIN to STEMMONS, including the 11/22 DMN map that CTers love to talk about so much. Because the only proper and legal way to get from MAIN to STEMMONS is.... Via Houston then Elm. So from that "proper and legal" perspective, the CTers who love to chant "The Motorcade Route Was Changed" are still cooked --- because unless you want to believe that the Secret Service was planning to hop the concrete divider that separates Main from Elm, then the Nov. 22nd DMN newspaper actually DOES, in effect, tell us that the limo was going to have to travel down both Houston Street and Elm Street in that truncated map that was published on the DMN front page on 11/22. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
David L., How in the world can the above "Connally Still Didn't Know About A Motorcade As Late As 11/22" situation have possibly existed when we know that practically ALL of the rest of Dallas and Fort Worth was aware---as early as Nov. 19!---that a motorcade was definitely going to take place in Dallas? It doesn't make sense. Am I supposed to actually believe that Gov. Connally, who was himself organizing many of the details pertaining to Kennedy's trip to Texas, was kept in total darkness as to the fact that any motorcade was going to take place in Dallas until he actually stepped off of Air Force One at Love Field on November 22nd---and even though Connally himself was going to be riding in that very motorcade that he supposedly knows nothing about until the very last minute??! That's impossible for me to believe. And I guess it would mean that Gov. Connally, who spent the night in Fort Worth on November 21, didn't see any of the Dallas-area papers that day (or evening), including this Dallas Times Herald which features a big map of the Dallas motorcade on the front page--and above the fold. (Maybe the Governor, though, wasn't big on reading newspapers when he was away from Austin. But if he had been exposed to that newspaper that day---Nov. 21st---he certainly would have been "tipped off" to the motorcade that was planned for the next day.) What is your source, David L., for this sentence you recently wrote?.... "Gov JC was, once again, assured--while the plane was in flight (from FW to Dallas)--that there would be "no motorcade"." Can you provide a link to your source for this rather remarkable and startling assertion (if such a link is available)? Thank you. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Is there any chance that conspiracy theorists will ever stop repeating the lie about the motorcade route being "changed"? Because no matter how many times CTers/Fantasists repeat that myth, it will never become a fact. It will always be a lie. And provably so. For the 54th time now, the proof that the route wasn't "changed" at the last minute (or even in the last three days) exists in Commission Exhibits 1362 and 1363. I guess CTers just refuse to read. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Yes. That's obvious from just this one Z-Film frame. JFK's car is not on Elm yet, and both Elm and Houston are packed with people. (And please don't tell me, as some CTers have in the past, that all these women on Elm are "Cardboard Cutouts").... -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
You're wrong, Rich. The Houston and Elm turns were most definitely a "certainty" as of the morning of Tuesday, November 19th. Repeating my earlier comment (and listen to the radio and TV coverage I provide here too, which has the announcers informing the Dallas citizens that "Houston" and "Elm" are going to see motorcade action in downtown Dallas that day).... "The reality is, of course, that those people...knew where to stand along Houston and Elm Streets that day because they all knew, prior to the motorcade ever arriving in Dealey Plaza, that JFK's motorcade would be coming down those exact streets (Houston and Elm). And they knew that information because it was published--in detail--in both of the Dallas newspapers on Tuesday, November 19th, and again in the Dallas Times Herald on Thursday, November 21st (in addition to being announced on both radio [at 4:04] and television [at 28:15] between 11:30 AM and 12:00 noon on November 22nd)." -- DVP -
The Warren Commission And Their Ego
David Von Pein replied to Evan Marshall's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
OK. Whatever. Doesn't matter a whit to me what you do. I guess I'll just continue to ~shrug~ in bewilderment at yet another murky and cloudy post penned by a JFK conspiracy theorist. (Nothing new there, of course.) -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
You want to play Dueling Photographs, eh? Okay. My turn.... Did all of those people we see lining both sides of Houston Street (plus the many women we see lined up on the north side of Elm Street in the Zapruder Film) suddenly dash to those positions from Main Street just seconds before they saw the President's car approaching the Plaza? (I kind of doubt they did.) Correcting another inaccurate Rich Pope statement.... It's misleading to say that the people we see running toward Elm Street in this Charles Bronson photograph were "walking from Main Street" (as you claimed). Those people were almost certainly running toward Elm after having just watched the President pass by their position on (or very near) the corner of Houston and Main Streets. Those bystanders who were initially situated on (and near) the corner of Main & Houston could see that the unique set of turns that were coming up for JFK's car would enable them to catch a second glimpse of the President and First Lady when the limousine turned onto Elm Street, so they ran over to Elm (from Houston & Main) for a second look. But they certainly wouldn't have been camped out further west on Main Street when they began their dash toward Elm. All of those parade watchers very likely started their dash from the Main/Houston corner. -
Who changed the motorcade route?
David Von Pein replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Then apparently you, Rich, must think that all of the many people who gathered on both Houston Street and Elm Street prior to the motorcade arriving in Dealey Plaza --- including the likes of Mary Moorman, Jean Hill, Jim Altgens, the Willis family, Charles Brehm, Bill & Gayle Newman, Abraham Zapruder, Mary Woodward, and all of the people who elected to watch the parade from the steps of the Book Depository Building --- just got lucky and guessed correctly that the President's car was going to turn down Houston and then onto Elm. Is that correct? The reality is, of course, that those people I mentioned above (and many more) knew where to stand along Houston and Elm Streets that day because they all knew, prior to the motorcade ever arriving in Dealey Plaza, that JFK's motorcade would be coming down those exact streets (Houston and Elm). And they knew that information because it was published--in detail--in both of the Dallas newspapers on Tuesday, November 19th, and again in the Dallas Times Herald on Thursday, November 21st (in addition to being announced on both radio and television between 11:30 AM and 12:00 noon on November 22nd). -
The Warren Commission And Their Ego
David Von Pein replied to Evan Marshall's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
And who's that, pray tell? -
The Warren Commission And Their Ego
David Von Pein replied to Evan Marshall's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Thank you. So, at whom were you aiming your second post above? Anybody in particular? -
The Warren Commission And Their Ego
David Von Pein replied to Evan Marshall's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Was my two-word post --- "It does" --- too "disagreeable" for you, Evan? Or were you just speaking in general terms and not to anyone in particular? ~shrug~ -
The Warren Commission And Their Ego
David Von Pein replied to Evan Marshall's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
It does.... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/09/warren-commission-objectives.html http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/warren-commission-got-it-right.html http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#The-Warren-Commission