David Von Pein

There's also this Richard Lipsey interview.... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KFei3W7bGOSXJlbmhHT2xuaFU/view

Absolute nonsense, Paul. You can't prove what you just said if your life depended on it --- and you know it! The FACT remains --- there isn't a single photo or X-ray (including the ORIGINALS, which were all seen by the HSCA) that shows ANY missing bone or scalp in the "occipital" region of President Kennedy's cranium. Not one. And the HSCA confirmed that FACT.

But you see, David, since I don't think for one second that there was a group of people out there who "engineered the plan to remove Kennedy from office", I, therefore, don't have to engage in the wild speculation that you have engaged in for the last fifty-one years about "altered wounds" and "falsified evidence" and an elaborate "sophisticated strategic deception". In my opinion, Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, killed President Kennedy by firing three shots at him from the sixth floor of the Book Depository Building. And the evidence in the case most certainly supports that basic fundamental conclusion (despite the continued protestations of conspiracy theorists). But even if I were to take a big leap off of your unique conspiracy-slanted diving board and accept the idea that some unknown group was responsible for JFK's death, my previous "It makes no sense!" comment would still be a perfectly valid and reasonable comment. Because no sensible person who was in the process of planning--IN ADVANCE--the following two things (in tandem with each other) would have even considered for even a single moment the idea of shooting at President Kennedy from the FRONT.... 1. Kill John F. Kennedy. 2. Frame Lee Harvey Oswald as the lone "patsy" for JFK's murder. By firing any bullets into JFK's body FROM THE FRONT, the plotters have virtually guaranteed that #2 could not be accomplished (unless, that is, God Himself was part of the assassination hit team). DVP 4/05/2017; 4:14 p.m. EDT Mooresville, Indiana USA

Related Discussion.... BEN HOLMES SAID: YOU WANT TO CHERRY-PICK THE AUTOPSY REPORT!!! DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Everybody cherry-picks, Ben. LNers do it. CTers do it. Can't be helped. It's human nature and always will be. (And I already told you that same thing several times in the past.) Plus.... Ben Holmes is a HUGE hypocrite when he tosses this statement up in my face.... "YOU WANT TO CHERRY-PICK THE AUTOPSY REPORT!!!" -- B. Holmes ....because YOU, Benny, will forever "cherry pick" the autopsy report. You LIKE the "somewhat into the occipital" verbiage (which is obviously inaccurate as far as an "absence of scalp and bone" is concerned, as the photos and X-rays AND Zapruder Film readily confirm for all time)....but you sure as heck HATE these THREE parts of that VERY SAME autopsy report [WCR, p.543], don't you Mr. Kettle?..... "It is our opinion that the deceased died as a result of two perforating gunshot wounds inflicted by high velocity projectiles fired by a person or persons unknown. The projectiles were fired from a point behind and somewhat above the level of the deceased." and.... "The fatal missile entered the skull above and to the right of the external occipital protuberance." and.... "The other missile...made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck." So, as we can easily see via the above examples of things that Ben will completely disregard (or label as "lies"), Hypocrite Ben Holmes is a much more blatant and brazen "cherry picker" of JFK's autopsy report than I have ever been. DAVID VON PEIN ALSO SAID: An "Occipital" Addendum.... Since we know without a doubt that there was no MISSING BONE OR SCALP in the "occipital" region of JFK's head, I'm wondering if Dr. Humes really meant to say "somewhat into the temporal and FRONTAL regions" when he wrote this paragraph of President Kennedy's autopsy report.... "There is a large irregular defect of the scalp and skull on the right involving chiefly the parietal bone but extending somewhat into the temporal and occipital regions. In this region there is an actual absence of scalp and bone producing a defect which measures approximately 13 cm. in greatest diameter." If the word "occipital" is replaced with the word "frontal" in the above paragraph, it becomes a much more accurate paragraph (based on the autopsy photographs and X-rays, plus a look at the Zapruder Film as well).... I'll also provide the following excerpts from the 1996 ARRB testimony of two of JFK's autopsy surgeons, Dr. James Humes and Dr. J. Thornton Boswell, which is testimony that most certainly indicates that these two autopsy physicians KNEW that there was no missing bone or scalp in the OCCIPITAL portion of the President's head: QUESTION -- "Just for any scalp lacerations, were there any tears over the occipital bone?" DR. HUMES -- "No. No." QUESTION -- "None whatsoever?" DR. HUMES -- "No." QUESTION -- "There were tears, however, over the temporal--" DR. HUMES -- "Temporal and parietal." ---------------- QUESTION -- "Can you describe generally where there was any missing bone from the posterior portion, to the best of your recollection?" DR. HUMES -- "There basically wasn't any. It was just a hole. Not a significant missing bone." QUESTION -- "So a puncture hole--" DR. HUMES -- "Puncture hole." QUESTION -- "And no bone missing--" DR. HUMES -- "No." QUESTION -- "Anywhere in the occipital?" DR. HUMES -- "No, no. Unless maybe--you know, these drawings are always strange. Unless the part of this wound extended that far back. I don't think it did, really. Most of it was parietal temporal." ---------------- DR. BOSWELL -- "This is what's missing here." QUESTION -- "So you're pointing at what I would describe as the temporal and parietal bone on the right hemisphere?" DR. BOSWELL -- "I guess that would--actually, that looks like frontal there, doesn't it? Frontal, temporal, and some parietal. But that's where this space is here." BEN HOLMES SAID: Now you finally admit that Dr. Humes *DID* write "occipital". DAVID VON PEIN SAID: When did I ever deny that? Answer -- Never. Why on Earth would I deny that Dr. James Humes wrote a word that I can see for myself in the autopsy report? I suspect he SHOULD have written "FRONTAL" there, however. And the Humes/Boswell testimony I cited above provides some good evidence that I'm correct in that assumption, with Dr. Boswell even using that very word -- "FRONTAL" -- to describe one of the missing areas of JFK's head as he looks at an X-ray during his ARRB session. And guess what word he DIDN'T use in that testimony? Answer -- "Occipital". .... DR. BOSWELL -- "That looks like frontal there, doesn't it? Frontal, temporal, and some parietal. But that's where this space is here." BEN HOLMES SAID: Hey Davey!!! You've admitted that the Autopsy Report states that the large wound, devoid of scalp and bone, extended "somewhat" into the occipital... You've admitted that the occipital is in the BACK of the head... When are you going to retract your lie and admit that the prosectors put the wound in the back of the head? DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Earth to Ben (again)---- There is NO MISSING SCALP OR BONE in JFK's occipital. Sorry. But that's the way it is---regardless of the flawed language that we find in the autopsy report on WCR Page 540. GARRY PUFFER SAID: Isn't it interesting that DVP thinks he can simply declare a part of the autopsy report "flawed language?" It's not flawed, David. It's very clear and precise. We can't help that you don't like it, but you can't just decide it's "flawed." DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Oh really? Please point out the "absence of scalp and bone" in the occipital in any of these three items shown below. I await your logical "All three of those items are fake, Davey" retort.... More here.... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/10/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1045.html

Utilizing ANY frontal shooters AT ALL within an assassination plot like the one purported by David Lifton (and all other CTers who think Oswald was being set up in advance to take the fall as the lone assassin) would have been suicide for the conspirators. How can that basic fact not be blatantly obvious to everybody here?

Which means that the people who arranged, "in advance, to alter the body (as part of the crime)", MUST have thought that after he was shot, President Kennedy would NOT be transported to any hospital in the Dallas area for medical treatment. Is that what you're suggesting, Mr. Lifton? But, just for the sake of argument, even if your theory is correct about a pre-planned "sophisticated strategic deception", how could the plotters who were planning such a complicated mission on 11/22/63 have possibly thought they could have totally concealed the FRONTAL gunshot wounds that these gunmen/conspirators knew were going to be sustained by JFK during the shooting in Dealey Plaza (since you think ALL shots that hit the President came from the FRONT and not the REAR)? How on Earth could such a crazy, backward plot to kill the President possibly be successful, given the fact that anyone with half a brain HAD to know that the injured President was most certainly going to be rushed to the nearest hospital immediately after the injuries were sustained -- i.e., well BEFORE any kind of covert body-altering surgery could have possibly been performed on the body of the President? I think only these four words need to be uttered at this point... It makes no sense! DVP 4/04/2017; 12:37 p.m. EDT Mooresville, Indiana USA http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/07/david-von-pein-vs-david-lifton.html

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZzgtnSziEp1Ygh-kvHT3MFRG2kX3_XWX/view

Michael, Here's a little more.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpZa_2bdfRM

Yes, that version is a FLV (Flash) version. But it should still play in all major browsers. Can't understand why it won't. ~shrug~ (I hate dead links and broken players. Hate 'em!! ) But since this came up today, I decided to convert it to a WMV file and add it to my Google Drive Index (even though the quality sucks). Here's the new link for it (with an extra minute added that I didn't even know I had).... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B66zFAvTgxxIcnlBWWtpaWgtVlE/view

Michael, I've got 2 minutes of color clips from the 5/24/64 re-enactment. It's lousy quality, but at least it's something.... http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/01/jfk-assassination-reenactment-film.html I've also got some still photos from the '64 re-enactment, here.... http://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com/2012/11/kennedy-gallery-268.html And if you fast-forward to 2:34 in this video below, you'll find another brief color clip from the re-enactment (filmed from the Sniper's Nest).... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLpVfi1PJe0

"The conspiracy alterationists are so incredibly zany that they have now gone beyond their allegation that key frames of the Zapruder film were altered by the conspirators to support their false story of what took place, to claiming that the conspirators altered all manner of people and objects in Dealey Plaza that couldn't possibly have any bearing on the president's murder. .... The alterationists have even claimed that at some point after the assassination, all the curbside lampposts in Dealey Plaza were moved to different locations and/or replaced with poles of different height. .... I know that conspiracy theorists have a sweet tooth for silliness, but is there absolutely nothing that is too silly for their palate?" -- Vincent Bugliosi

Oh, good! Ray is going to play dumb about how the rifle got into Ruth Paine's garage. And he's going to pretend to not know the answer to the question he asked me. Par for the course for CTers, of course.

Didn't you know? I was a stowaway in the back of Ruth's '55 Chevy when she drove from Richmond, Indiana (my hometown), to New Orleans in September of '63. More here -----> "I think [Von Pein's] family knew Ruth Paine"

Oh, I'm sure even you could figure it out, Ray. If you concentrate hard enough. Give it a try.

Ray, I told you yesterday that I was only guessing. How many more times do I have to admit that? And do you really think that Ruth Paine had a clipboard and an inventory sheet at the ready when she drove Marina and the Oswalds' possessions from New Orleans to Irving in late September of '63? Why on Earth would you think that each individual item she transported would be remembered specifically by Ruth when she testified? (She certainly didn't recall the rifle package being amongst LHO's possessions either. But we know there was one. At least *I* am satisfied that the rifle was in her station wagon.)

Walthers did.... Mr. WALTHERS -- ...and then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves. Mr. LIEBELER -- About how many of them would you think there were? Mr. WALTHERS -- There were six or seven, I believe...

Of course it doesn't say it was "Oswald's". I told you I was GUESSING. But it's a reasonable GUESS, don't ya think? Why would one of Oswald's letters be inside a cabinet owned by Ruth Paine? You don't think a few little file boxes could have been transported from New Orleans along with the rest of LHO's possessions in late September? Why not?

Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets? Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works. Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them? Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it. Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that? Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day. Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel. Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted around.

Paul, Buddy Walthers never once said in his WC testimony that it was his opinion the "filing cabinets" even belonged to Ruth & Michael Paine. They were merely recovered from Ruth's garage (which is where most of the Oswalds' stuff was located as well). And at least one letter in one of the "cabinets" was likely Oswald's letter---not Ruth's. This fact becomes quite clear when reading Walthers' testimony. So what makes you think Walthers was trying to nail only Ruth & Michael to the wall when it comes to the subject of the filing cabinets?

I think you're severely overstating Buddy Walthers' intentions and alleged "accusations".

No problem. Any time.

I don't know it for a fact. I'm just guessing. But, IMO, it's a reasonable guess. (See following text, taken from this 2013 discussion.) .... DAVID VON PEIN SAID [QUOTING BUDDY WALTHERS' TESTIMONY]: BUDDY WALTHERS. You could tell it from the way it was tied and the impression of where that barrel went up in it where it was tied, that a rifle had been tied in it, but what kind---you couldn't tell, but you could tell a rifle had been wrapped up in it, and then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves. WESLEY LIEBELER. About how many of them would you think there were? Mr. WALTHERS. There were six or seven, I believe, and I put them all in the trunk of my car and we also found a box of pictures, a bunch of pictures that we taken. We didn't go to the trouble of looking at any of this stuff much---just more or less confiscated it at the time, and we looked at it there just like that, and then we took all this stuff and put it in the car and then Mrs. Paine got a phone number from Mrs. Oswald where you could call Lee Harvey Oswald in Oak Cliff. It was a Whitehall phone number, I believe, and they said they didn't know where he lived, but this was where they called him, and I called Sheriff Decker on the phone when I was there and gave him that number for the crisscross, so they could send some men to that house, which I think they did, but I didn't go myself. Then we put everybody in the car, the kids, Mrs. Oswald, and everyone---no; just a minute---before that, though, this Michael Paine or Mitchell Paine, whichever you call it, came home and I had understood from Mrs. Paine already that they weren't living together, that they were separated and he was supposed to be living in Grand Prairie and when he showed up I asked him what was his object in coming home. He said--well, after he had heard about the President's getting shot, he just decided he would take off and come home, and he arrived there while we were there. [...] Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets? Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works. Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them? Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it. Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that? Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day. Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel. Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted around. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walthers [END WARREN COMMISSION QUOTES.] Question: What proof is there that the file cabinets belonged to Ruth or Michael Paine? Why couldn't that stuff have been part of Lee Oswald's personal possessions? After all, about everything Lee and Marina owned was in Mrs. Paine's garage in November of '63. This part of Buddy Walthers' Warren Commission testimony above certainly makes it sound as though at least some of the material in at least one of the metal file cabinets belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald: "We opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead..." In addition, there is this WC testimony from Marina Oswald, in which she refers to a metal file cabinet owned by Lee Oswald, in which he kept materials associated with his Fair Play For Cuba activities (the box itself can be seen in Commission Exhibit 125): Mr. THORNE. Exhibit 125 is a file cabinet for presumably three by five or five by seven inch cards. Mrs. OSWALD. Lee kept his printing things in that, pencils. Mr. RANKIN. The things that he printed his Fair Play for Cuba leaflets on? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Mr. RANKIN. Pencils and materials that he used in connection with that matter? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Mr. RANKIN. Did he have any index cards in that metal case? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he had some. Mr. RANKIN. You don't know what happened to them? Mrs. OSWALD. No. Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what was on those index cards? Mrs. OSWALD. No. Mr. RANKIN. A list of any people that you know of? Mrs. OSWALD. No. I don't know. Mr. RANKIN. Were those leaflets about Fair Play for Cuba printed? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Mr. RANKIN. And then did he stamp something on them after he had them printed? Mrs. OSWALD. He would print his name and address on them. Mr. RANKIN. You don't know what happened to the cards that were in that? Mrs. OSWALD. No. [END WC QUOTES.] Whether the metal box of LHO's (CE125) has any connection at all to the several similar such metal boxes found at Ruth Paine's house on 11/22/63, I haven't the slightest idea. But perhaps Lee owned more than one such box. ~shrug~ [...] There is...something in the testimony of DPD Detective Richard Stovall that might be of interest (although whether these "boxes" picked up by Stovall are related to the "file cabinets" discussed by Buddy Walthers, I haven't the foggiest).... Mr. STOVALL -- "I've got listed "one grey metal file box, which is 12 inches by 6 inches; youth pictures and literature." I've got, "One black and gray metal box 10 inches by 4 inches, letters, etc., one box brown Keystone projector." Let's stop just a minute and let me tell you about this. These two metal boxes came out of Ruth Paine's bedroom. This Keystone projector came out of the closet in the hall. Then, I have listed, "Three brown metal boxes 12 inches by 4 inches containing phonograph records." They came out of Ruth Paine's bedroom." http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/stovall EDIT -- Please note that most of the above information supplied by Detective Stovall concerning the contents of various "metal boxes" perfectly matches the items that Ruth Paine herself said was in the "file boxes" during her 2013 public appearance. In that 2013 audio, she said three of the boxes contained "folk dance records", three more boxes contained her "college papers", and the seventh box had a "projector" in it. LARRY BALDWIN SAID: ...what were the Paines doing with this information and what are the implications? DAVID VON PEIN SAID: I'm not convinced the stuff in the "file cabinets" seized by Buddy Walthers even belonged to Ruth Paine. As I speculated previously, maybe that stuff belonged to Lee Oswald. And this portion of Walthers' testimony is one reason why I say that: "We opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead..." So, as to WHAT exactly was contained in the boxes/cabinets and WHO exactly was the owner of that material -- I have no idea. Do you? RONALD VAN DIJK SAID: And since you checked all conspiracy's [sic] of any sort: Ruth has nothing to do with these cabinets! We can go on to the next topic! Life is easy if you want! DAVID VON PEIN SAID: "We opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead..." -- Eddy "Buddy" Walthers Sure sounds like OSWALD'S letter there, doesn't it? And why would Oswald's letter be in Ruth Paine's metal cabinets? Who do you think the "he" is referring to in this sentence, Ronald?..... "That's from the people he writes to in Russia."

Well, some of that material almost certainly belonged to Oswald, not the Paines. Wouldn't you agree with that? And if SOME of it was really Oswald's, why not all of it?

That's not what I said at all. What I said is.... "It's very likely just another one of the dozens of myths that conspiracy theorists love to tout as true about the JFK case. And according to what Ruth Paine herself said in a public appearance on September 13, 2013, the story about the "seven file boxes of Cuba sympathizers' names" was a completely bogus story from the get-go." I didn't say that CTers invented the cabinets or the story. I just said it was one of the myths that CTers "love to tout as true", even though it's obviously not true. I think Walthers saw some material in the Paine garage and misinterpreted its contents. Walthers himself said he never went through the material, so he doesn't know what the boxes really contained. And I think I make a pretty good case for at least some of that material belonging to OSWALD, not the Paines. http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-87.html#File-Cabinets

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-87.html#File-Cabinets