David Von Pein
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Posts posted by David Von Pein
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1 hour ago, Sean Coleman said:
….and with the plethora of pics/vids you have, can you find that person elsewhere?
The person who has been labeled "Prayer Man" might very well be lurking in some of the other pictures and videos that I have on my websites. It's especially hard to know, though, because the PM figure could conceivably be almost anybody in any of the Dealey Plaza photos. My goodness, there's even been debate about whether the PM figure is a man or a woman. So when searching for him/(her) in my photo/video collection, that broadens the possibilities considerably.
Here's a good place to start looking for Prayer Man (or Woman). These two pictures below were taken very shortly after the assassination:
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12 hours ago, Sean Coleman said:
But David….do you agree it does actually, a little wee bit, sort of resemble LHO? Hairline, height, shirt, place of work etc.?
Yes, I would agree with you there....kinda....sorta. 😇
But the films are just too low-quality and indistinct to allow us to make anything close to a positive identification of the Prayer Man figure. And that must, indeed, be very frustrating for many conspiracy believers who think Oswald was innocent of the assassination. Heck, it's even frustrating for me as well, because I'd like to know for sure who the PM figure is too.
But there are many things that tell me PM is not LHO. The biggest of which is the fact that Oswald himself didn't tell the waiting press---on Live TV---that he was outside on the steps when JFK was being shot---and that was right after LHO was asked, point-blank, "were you in the building at the time?". And that live television broadcast at 7:55 PM CST on Nov. 22 was a TV broadcast that could not have been controlled by the "evil" DPD.
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I've been collecting photographs for my "Dealey Plaza Through The Years" webpage (linked below) for nearly ten years now. I'm always looking for more though (especially any pre-1963 photos). So if anyone has any more rare images they'd like to share, please post them in this thread. ....
Sample images from the above webpage
(most of these can be enlarged by clicking on them):
1935:
1948:
1954:
NOV. 25, 1963:
JULY 20, 1972:
NOV. 21, 2013:
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1 hour ago, Paul Cummings said:
The question is where did they get the finger prints? From the morgue or jail?
jfk-archives.blogspot.com/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-203.html#Oswald-Prints
jfk-archives.blogspot.com/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-973.html#Oswalds-Prints
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3 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:
Who knows.
Precisely.
And those two words apply to PM's identity as well.
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1 hour ago, Roger Odisio said:
Have you been on those steps? I have. The view is lousy.
Ask Buell Frazier if he thinks the view was lousy.
And, again, if the view was so darn lousy, why did that "pack of Depository employees" decide to use those steps as a place to watch? Were they nailed to the steps or something? Or were all those employees just plain idiots?
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6 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:
I'm saying why would a stranger choose to stand in the doorway when they could be closer to the parade on Elm St?
Well then, by the same token, why would a TSBD employee feel compelled to stay on the steps when they could have easily gone down to Elm for a closer look? That same logic would apply to TSBD workers too, right?
(Also check my edit to my last post, re: Buell Frazier.)
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36 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:
Why? When others could have closer view of the parade as the crowd was thinned out as pictures and films have shown.
Can you prove that Prayer Man is not merely a stranger?
I kind of doubt you can.
BTW / FWIW....
Buell Wesley Frazier, in his more recent interviews, has said that he had the best seat in the house (when referring to his parade-watching location on the top step of the TSBD). And he was standing practically right next to "Prayer Man".
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15 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:
I do not know if this film was suppressed or not after being made. I have never heard of it before. A great find.
Here's some more info on that 1964 Secret Service film (courtesy of The Sixth Floor Museum website):
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4 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:
...eliminating all other Depository employees as possibilities.
Which would not prove anything, since the "Prayer Man" figure could very easily be a non-TSBD person (i.e., a total stranger).
A stranger, who might have been looking for a good place to watch the motorcade from, might very well have climbed to the top of the Depository stairs in order to view the parade from that vantage point. And no one can possibly prove that such a scenario didn't happen.
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On 7/7/2022 at 1:00 AM, Benjamin Cole said:
The segment of the Z film shown in the Secret Service film above is blurry and black-and-white, and omits the scene of JFK being pushed, or flung, or whatever, violently to JFK's back and left after being struck in the head.
Jeez, why would a government agency, committed to transparency and accountability, omit the violent motion of JFK to his back and left?
You're wrong about this. The whole Z-Film assassination sequence is shown in the SS film. It's a crappy B&W version, yes. And the very bottom of the frame is trimmed throughout the whole Z-Film sequence, but you can still see the backward movement of Kennedy's head in this SS film (at about 8:20). So why you're saying the SS omitted it is a mystery to me.
As to why the very bottom of the frame is cut off for this entire Z-Film sequence, I really don't know, but I do recall seeing a trimmed version like this in the past. I think it's just a case of the FBI & SS having to settle for low-quality copies of the Z-Film that (for some reason) suffered from that trimming at the bottom of the frame. The Secret Service copy seen in this 1964 SS film is, in fact, almost certainly a copy of an FBI copy. So, naturally, it's not going to be crystal clear.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9E6ed_4-hx6clV0SHhkN1dESHM/view
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1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:
If anyone takes time to read the whole thing you will well see Wade and Fritz were well practiced well before 1963 in finding a scapegoat.
I wonder if a single one of those "scapegoats" behaved the way Lee Harvey Oswald behaved on November 21st and 22nd, 1963?
Let me know if any of them did.
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Thanks for another informative post, Pat.
I guess I was just unaware that the act of confessing to a crime you never committed was so widespread and (somewhat) commonplace in the law enforcement world.
A person would, indeed, have to be very "mentally deficient" to do something like that.
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10 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:
Why did Garrison have to order the Z-film down to N.O. if there was a copy floating around to anyone who wanted to rent it?
Beats me.
As I said in my previous comments above, "I am not positive" that the '64 SS film was available to the public. But, then too, if it wasn't made for the public to see (or for schools or universities), what WAS the reason for the film being produced? Just for Secret Service personnel and nobody else?
~big shrug~
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5 hours ago, Pat Speer said:
...it follows that Wade and Fritz had almost certainly caused the deaths of men who would have been found innocent should they not have confessed after being lied to by Fritz.
I'm a little bit perplexed by the above comment of yours, Pat. Are you implying here that many of the Henry Wade cases that have recently been overturned in Dallas County (due to new DNA results being available) are cases in which the arrested suspects actually confessed to crimes they never committed?
Even if Fritz & Wade had lied to those suspects about certain things, why would a completely innocent person want to confess to something he didn't do?
Can you elaborate, Pat?
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Pat,
Thank you for your last post above. Many of the things you said do make sense.
Although I have no proof either, I have a feeling that the scenario you talked about in this portion of your last post is probably a tactic that some police officers have, indeed, employed (especially in a case where the police had a lot of physical evidence against the suspect):
"I remember coming across some books on law enforcement techniques saying it was perfectly okay for an interrogator to lie to a suspect--the classic ones being that someone saw them do it or that their presumed colleague had already fingered them--to get them to cooperate." -- P. Speer
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1964 Secret Service Re-Enactment Film......
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9E6ed_4-hx6clV0SHhkN1dESHM/view
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/02/1964-secret-service-film.html#Discussion
Note concerning the above SS film....
Since we can see that the Zapruder Film is being displayed in full motion (and in real time) in this 1964 Secret Service film [8 minutes in], such an occurrence (within a U.S. Government filmed production) would certainly tend to debunk the notion that many conspiracy theorists continue to endorse to this day—i.e., the notion that Abraham Zapruder's motion picture film of JFK's assassination was being deliberately suppressed or hidden from the general public until 1975 (or at least until 1969, when the Zapruder Film was shown in open court at the Clay Shaw trial in New Orleans).
Although I am not positive, I would assume that this Secret Service reconstruction film was available to the public shortly after it was completed sometime in late 1964. It possibly was made available at certain libraries, schools, and universities around the country. And if that was the case, then the conspiracists who think the U.S. Government was attempting to hide the Zapruder Film from public view for many years are just simply dead wrong. Because this Secret Service film, although probably not seen by very many people prior to the age of the Internet, would have still been out there and available to view by anyone who had an interest in doing so many years prior to 1975 (or 1969). -
And I am sorry if I'm coming across as brusque or uncaring when I speak of the plight Lee Oswald found himself in while in the custody of the DPD. But knowing the evidence that exists against Oswald as I do know it in BOTH cases of murder he was charged with in 1963, it's very difficult for me to muster any measure of sympathy or compassion for LHO at all. I guess I am biased against Oswald. But overwhelming evidence has a tendency to do that sometimes.
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25 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:
So please quit arguing and insulting others...
Who did I "insult", Pat? (Other than Lee Oswald.)
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6 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:
Fritz in particular was considered to be a mediocre or worse detective but an expert interrogator, who frequently lied, cajoled, and manipulated suspects into confessing.
"Cajoled" I can easily believe (and even expect) from a guy in Fritz' occupation. But have you got any proof regarding that "lied" allegation, Pat?
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2 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:
Uhhh... Please. Oswald had repeatedly asked for a specific lawyer, John Abt. He wasn't pretending he wanted a lawyer; he really wanted one. Just not one picked out by the authorities.
Awwww......poor fella. 🙁
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Yes, Roger, let's all feel sorry for poor Lee Oswald, who claims he wants a lawyer and then refuses the help of Mr. Nichols. How much sense does that make? Apparently he's got to have a specific lawyer (Abt). I guess no other attorney would do. But beggars can't always be choosers, can they?
Pardon me if I shed no tears for Mr. Oswald and his "They won't let me have any legal representation" crap.
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17 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:
Can you show me where OSWALD HIMSELF is saying that he refused a lawyer? If not, this bit about refusing a lawyer is hearsay.
So, you think H. Louis Nichols of the Bar Association was lying on Nov. 23?
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Oswald's Light-Colored Jacket
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by David Von Pein
And I guess you also have no interest in the other nine witnesses that Bill mentioned....i.e., witnesses who place Oswald out on the street in Oak Cliff and not inside the Texas Theater between 1:15 and 1:20 PM CST on Nov. 22nd.
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#JD-Tippit