Mark Wengler

Tom i am open for that. I will just say that this is on Oswald's tombstone not Oawald the person

Don't know if this fits in this topic?

By Ted Gregory, Chicago Tribune reporter

March 27, 2012

Inside Wayne Lensing's auto museum down a remote road from a body shop, visitors can see Elvis Presley's 1972 Lincoln, the Mayberry squad car from "The Andy Griffith Show" and three Batmobiles.

Right around the corner from Richard Petty's 1960 stock car and a few steps from the Cadillac covered in 120,000 coins, the curious also can view a decidedly different artifact: Lee Harvey Oswald's tombstone.

That's right. The 130-pound gray granite slab that marked the final resting place of one of U.S. history's more notorious figures is about 90 miles northwest of Chicago, on the outskirts of Roscoe, Ill., best known perhaps as race car driver Danica Patrick's hometown.

How the stone got there is a tale of thievery that also involves an electrician who made a startling discovery in a crawl space and a woman who isn't saying much. Whether it remains in the museum may end up as a courtroom drama between Lensing and the owner of a legendary live music club.

The Oswald tombstone saga also underscores the unwavering interest in John F. Kennedy and the hot market for collectibles related to the 35th president. They can draw feverish bidding, exemplified by the successful $6 million offer for a Kennedy-owned yacht at an auction in 1998.

With hundreds of Kennedy items displayed at his museum in rural Winnebago County, Lensing has tapped into that robust appetite, he said.

The name of his museum, Historic Auto Attractions, might not suggest the full range of exhibits, but it fits perfectly with Lensing's main interest as a builder of racing car bodies.

The headstone, he said, is in one of the more popular sections of the museum, "Kennedy Day In Dallas."

"Nobody ever wanted anything to do with it throughout all those years, until they found out the thing got sold," said Lensing, 64. "So now, after 25-30 years … they all come out of the woodwork."

David Card, owner of Poor David's Pub in Dallas, which celebrated 35 years in the business this month, sees a slightly different scenario.

"They screwed us out of it," said Card, 72, who contends that the stone is part of his father's estate. "And I want it back."

The man who killed Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963, in Dallas, shattered "Camelot" and marked the onset of a decade of turmoil was buried in Rose Hill Memorial Park Cemetery in Fort Worth, Texas. His body was placed there after Dallas nightclub owner Jack Ruby, a native Chicagoan, shot Oswald in a police escort two days after Kennedy's death.

On the four-year anniversary of the assassination, a couple of high school pranksters stole the stone, which features Oswald's name and the dates of his birth and death etched around a cross. Authorities found it in a park in Bartlesville, Okla., and returned it to Marguerite Oswald, the assassin's mother.

Concerned that other thieves and vandals might strike, Marguerite Oswald tucked the stone in her Fort Worth home's crawl space, Card said. A few months after her death in 1981, Card's father and stepmother bought the house.

About four years later, an electrician rooting around in the crawl space found the headstone. Fearful that someone might steal it, Card's father and stepmother hauled the stone to the home of Mrs. Card's sister, who later sent it to her son.

It sat in his garage until the son, Johnny Ragan, died in 2008, David Card said, leaving the tombstone in the hands of Ragan's wife, Holly.

That's where its odyssey gets murky. Card contends the stone is among items his father and stepmother acquired when they bought the home. Lensing maintains that Johnny Ragan's will left it in his wife's possession.

Holly Ragan is less than inclined to discuss the matter publicly.

In a brief phone conversation from Fort Worth, she said Card is spreading "a lot of incorrect information" and "cannot show any proof of ownership." Then she hung up.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-oswald-tombstone-fight-20120327,0,4864734.story

Mark, you are new and do not understand what Ray is up to.

In Ray's world Mark lane and Jim Garrison are Oswald accusers.

We have been through this at nauseum explaining how crazy this is.

But Ray is not here to do research, since he doesn't really know how, or to honestly exchange opinions.

See, when you are enlightened on this issue at length with new evidence, and you go back and do the same thing, then you are not a real JFK researcher who is interested in facts and truth. You have your own agenda.

He and his pal Dennis Ford made that clear many years ago.

New to the board yes but on debating the assassination i am in my 3rd decade. I just never seen anyone like Ray. Every person i have every debated was open to all sides as i think all should be on this board

I personally believe that Oswald did not shoot President Kennedy. But to say that a thread is only for those who believe that Oswald is Innocent and those who believe that Oswald did shoot President Kennedy do not need to post here is very wrong. All threads should be open to all debate so all sides can have a sayso.

Happy Birthday Kathy

No i wish i can. It surprises that it can't be found. You can buy the 1964 Warren Report that was on tv and the 4 part Warren Report fron 1967 is on line.

I say this if two researchers are exchanging emails on JFK or what ever if neither one says this is private only between us two i see no reason to post the email.

If i share info on JFK my email with another researcher they are more than free to share that info.

What connection do you all think he truly had the Assassination?

Also they way he was killed someone to an axe to his head and shot him in the heart.

By killing him this way what could it signify?

I mean just not killing him but the way it was done

Mr, Lifton when i first read your book back in 82 that stuck with me how could Custer be carring the X-Rays of President Kennedy when he saw the party just ariving at the hospital.

I remeber there was talk of a coppter lifting off right after Air Force One tough down that it could have carried the body which you had in your book.

I also was wondering since the last update to your book have you found out who could have done any alterations to the body?

Also will put out an new update to your book?

This has been going on for a long time. Look back at Hoover and the F.B.I and also the C.I.A there is along history of misuse of this type of tech. A select few in government feel they know what is right. They don't need some judge telling them it is ok to do it.

They and they along feel they have the moral obligation to do whats right for America in their own eyes. Sadly we saw this all to well in Hoover. With Hoover there is an old saying Abslute power corrupts Absolutely which did happen.

Mr Simkin,

I do appreciate you, your knowledge on so many different topics. I truly enjoy reading your material, thank God for people like you who have captured history in its making, thank you for allowing me to join your wonderful forum, and the time I was able to spend with some very brilliant people including your monitors. Mr Tom Scully, I have not seen anyone who is able to dig up information as well as Linda Minor.

I have been fortunate to have made some friends along the line as I keep in-touch with people everyday on Facebook. Now, I come to the purpose of this topic. I sometimes find it quite hard to respond to a topic when I know I should be keeping my mouth shut, its at times quite accelerating when I know I'm having to fight this trouble urge.

I respectfully request a temporary removal from this forum until the release of my book, I would love to continue reading the posts, but at this time I must re-strain myself from posting. I will then be more then happy to contact you at a later time and inform you of the release of my book and request if I may re-join as a member of this wonderful forum.

respectfully,

Scott Kaiser

Scott I hope that you stay a member enjoy reading your post they proved a lot of useful information

Every step of the way during the Cuban Missile Crisis JFK made the right steps even when the U-2 was shot down.

He know the fate of the world hinged on what he & Khrushchev did.

That is why he gave Khrushchev a way to save face to remove the Missiles from Cuba.

Good Day.... FYI.... http://www.frederick...?StoryID=132961

(QUOTE)

Local Author Digs for Truth

Former Hood professor uses information act to unearth government documents

Originally published March 11, 2012

By Brian Englar

News-Post Staff

Photo by Graham Cullen

Former Hood College professor Gerald McKnight is working on a book.

When local author and former Hood College professor Gerald McKnight researched his first book in the 1980s, he sought government documents related to COINTELPRO, a secret FBI program aimed at surveilling, infiltrating and disrupting domestic political organizations.

He filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the documents, but according to McKnight, the government was less than forthcoming with the information about the program, eventually deemed illegal.

"I got a letter back from the Justice Department saying 'who the hell are you and what the hell do you think you're doing here?'" McKnight said. "It was like 'what spaceship did you come to this country in that you expect to get this information?'"

But McKnight wasn't going away, and after spending thousands of dollars on a lawyer, he got a hearing on his request. The Friday before the hearing was to take place, the Justice Department informed McKnight that it no longer opposed the release of the documents.

"They pushed me to see how serious I was about this," McKnight said.

The result of his efforts was his book, "The Last Crusade: Martin Luther King Jr., the FBI and the Poor People's Campaign," which details FBI attempts to destroy King and derail the Poor People's Campaign, a 1968 march on Washington by thousands of impoverished Americans that King didn't live to see.

McKnight ultimately prevailed in his battle for transparency, and he said the money he was forced to spend on a lawyer limited the scope of his research.

"I got a book out of it," McKnight said. "But it could have been a lot better.

For his second book, "Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why," McKnight relied almost entirely on documents obtained through the efforts of the late Frederickauthor Harold Weisberg.

Weisberg's legendary struggles with the government over the release of information related to the assassination of John F. Kennedy included several lawsuits and pried loose thousands of documents from resistant federal agencies.

"He was at this from the day after Dallas until he died," McKnight said. "When you look at what he was able to get out of the Freedom of Information Act, it's just absolutely remarkable. And not only did he use the act to get documents, he also used his lawyer and his ability to force the FBI to bring forward certain members of the agency and they were under oath where he could question them."

Weisberg died in 2002. In 2005, The Frederick News-Post filed a FOIA request and learned the FBI kept a file on Weisberg. The FBI believed Weisberg was a communist, and a number of internal memos chronicle the government's effort to block Weisberg's access to information regarding the assassinations of JFK and Martin Luther King Jr.

McKnight said he is still using the documents obtained by Weisberg, along with many recently released documents in the National Archives assassination records collection, for a planned new book about the Kennedy assassination.

McKnight said other documents related to the assassination are still being withheld, including what he said are as many as 2.4 million pages on Lee Harvey Oswald from the Office of Naval Intelligence. Other withheld documents include nearly 300 pages dealing with George Joannides, a CIA case officer McKnight and other researchers believe is key to demonstrating that Oswald was an asset of U.S. intelligence.

Former Washington Post reporter Jefferson Morley has been fighting to have the documents made public since 2001, but the CIA has successfully argued that their release would cause "extremely grave damage" to national security.

The 1992 JFK Records Act requires agencies to release all documents relevant to the assassination by 2017, but McKnight said he is skeptical that all the information, including the Joannides documents, will ever see the light of day.

"There may not be any files left," he said. "Either the stuff that he will get will be so innocuous that it won't be any use to him, or the CIA will go to the government and simply try to exercise a provision that there are reasons why these files cannot be released."

McKnight said the Joannides documents are only a small piece of the puzzle when it comes to the JFK assassination, and that many important documents already available to the public haven't been fully explored.

"There is so much stuff that can be done," he said. "It would take a whole team of interested and capable people to go through it all."

(END QUOTE)

You can read excerpts and search into McKNIGHT's book, "Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why," here.... http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/0700613900

Best Regards in Research,

++Don

Donald Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker

Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly

For your considerations....

Homepage : President KENNEDY "Men of Courage" speech, and Assassination Evidence,

Witnesses, Suspects + Outstanding Researchers Discoveries and Considerations.... http://droberdeau.bl...ination_09.html

Dealey Plaza Map : Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise locations, Witnesses, Films & Photos,

Evidence, Suspected bullet trajectories, Important information & Key Considerations, in One Convenient Resource.... http://img831.images...dated110110.gif

Visual Report : "The First Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: while JFK was Still Hidden

Under the 'magic-limbed-ricochet-tree' ".... http://img504.images...k1102308ms8.gif

Visual Report : Reality versus C.A.D. : the Real World, versus, Garbage-In, Garbage-Out.... http://img248.images...ealityvscad.gif

Discovery : "Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS Zapruder Film

Documented 2nd Headsnap:

West, Ultrafast, and Directly Towards the Grassy Knoll".... http://educationforu...?showtopic=2394

T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore

For the United States:

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/

That is what gets to me Keeping documents secert on Lee Harvey Oswald whom the government says was a nutcase acting alone. Yet releasing such documents would cause harm to the national security! How can that be if he acted alone?

This kind of relates to what is going on with the C.I.A not releasing the JFK records.

Scotland Yard Still has records sealed from the Jack The Ripper Killings and that is 124 years ago.

What does that say about how governments secorts.

I think RFK would run in 68 like he did even if his brother was not assassinated.

I have been interested in the Titanic since 1976. The story of the passengers are the compelling part of the ship.

With the ship taking 2:40 to sink so many different stories taking place it's just ribbiting.

I must add this if you want the real story Do Not Watch Titanic from 1997 Watch A Night To Remember 100% real

The only thing wrong with this is it shows the ship sinking whole.

I think i post this as a reply but i decided to start this as a topic We know that he brought a Mauser in to work a couple days before the 22. Then some of the first reports after the assassination said a mauser was found. I always found this to be a little odd.

What does everyone think about this? Also was he ask to produce the Mauser just to test it to see if it had beed recently fired?

I was looking through some assassination images and looked at this McIntire image that we are all familiar with.

Suddenly I saw this image which I wonder if it is a person. At first I dismissed the image because the building is behind the Records building. I do not know what the name of this building is. But then I noticed that the building is to the left of the Records building. And then I realised that actually although further back from the Records building a person in that position would have a clear line of sight to Elm Street.

So do fellow members think this a person and if so what are they doing on the roof of this building?

James.

James,

That is a very good find, and could be useful if the photo itself could somehow be technologically enhanced without blurring the image, it could very well be someone up on the "Records Building" though I wouldn't know if Secret Service had anyone on the roof tops anywhere scoping out the perimeter of the grounds as they should have.

Wasn't there a bullet found sometime in the 80's on top of the Records Building? I don't remember, but I thought I read that somewhere. I think that you should also change the heading of you title, "image on top of Records Building," it may draw in a larger crowd and someone who maybe photographically experience can decide for themselves.

It was a rifle cartage a 30.06 i think it also looked it was fited with a sabot. From the looks it was up there for a long time.

The thing is what would a high power rifle cartage be on the rifle of the records building?

Whatever you do, don't buy the first one, Destiny Betrayed.

That is being reissued for the anniversary in November and they let me rewrite it.

It will be a much, much better book than the first edition. I will be using many of the new ARRB docs. And the book will be reorganized also. WIth whole chapters dropped, and others added. For instance, there will be whole new chapters on the autopsy and Kennedy's foreign policy. In fact, that particular chapter, JFK's foreign policy, will be fifty pages long. RIght now I am about 25% done with the rewrite.

As per The Assassinations, which I am very proud to have co-edited with Lisa Pease, I don't have anymore copies. The Kindle edition just came out. So you will have to get it off Amazon. The Kindle edition did bring down the price some.

Thanks for the info Jim i will wait for the better book in Nov to come out.

Me personally i would say no Len. You have a right to voice your opinion as everyone here does.

These two people ( I use that word people loosely ) were beyond the reach of us getting them and bringing them to trail. Yes that law does worry me.

But there are times when such things need to be done in that way. I hope that this is very far and few that things are done in such a matter. I would rather see such persons brought to trial and have their fate decided there.

Al-Awlaki's name came up in a dozen terrorism plots in the U.S., UK, and Canada. The cases included suicide bombers in the 2005 London bombings, radical Islamic terrorists in the 2006 Toronto terrorism case, radical Islamic terrorists in the 2007 Fort Dix attack plot, the jihadist killer in the 2009 Little Rock military recruiting office shooting, and the 2010 Times Square bomber. In each case the suspects were devoted to al-Awlaki's message, which they listened to on laptops, audio clips, and CDs

al-Awlaki had contacts with Nidal Malik Hasan the fort hood shooter here is what he said about Nidal Malik Hasan

Nidal Hassan is a hero.... The U.S. is leading the war against terrorism, which in reality is a war against Islam..... Nidal opened fire on soldiers who were on their way to be deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. How can there be any dispute about the virtue of what he has done? In fact the only way a Muslim could Islamically justify serving as a soldier in the U.S. army is if his intention is to follow the footsteps of men like Nidal.

The fact that fighting against the U.S. army is an Islamic duty today cannot be disputed. No scholar with a grain of Islamic knowledge can defy the clear cut proofs that Muslims today have the right—­rather the duty­—to fight against American tyranny. Nidal has killed soldiers who were about to be deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan in order to kill Muslims. The American Muslims who condemned his actions have committed treason against the Muslim Ummah and have fallen into hypocrisy.... May Allah grant our brother Nidal patience, perseverance, and steadfastness, and we ask Allah to accept from him his great heroic act. Ameen

Al-Awlaki and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the suspected al-Qaeda attempted bomber of Northwest Airlines Flight 253 on December 25, 2009, had contacts according to a number of sources. In January 2010, CNN reported that U.S. "security sources" said that there is concrete evidence that al-Awlaki was Abdulmutallab's recruiter and one of his trainers, and met with him prior to the attack.[150] In February 2010, al-Awlaki admitted in an interview published in al-Jazeera that he taught and corresponded with Abdulmutallab, but denied having ordered the attack.[151][152][153]

Representative Pete Hoekstra, the senior Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, said officials in the Obama administration and officials with access to law enforcement information told him the suspect "had contact [with al-Awlaki

In 2010, cartoonist Molly Norris at Seattle Weekly had to stop publishing, and at the suggestion of the FBI change her name, move, and go into hiding due to a Fatwā calling for her death issued by al-Awlaki, after Everybody Draw Mohammed Day

The Guardian and The Daily Telegraph reported that U.S. and British counter-terrorism officials believe that al-Awlaki was behind the cargo plane PETN bombs that were sent from Yemen to Chicago in October 2010.

When you have a person like Al-Awlaki calling for the dead of Americans like Molly Norris that is when he gave up his rights as a U.S Citizen

Some of the terrorist attacks in which he help do or inspired others to do is a act of war.

Basically he declared War on his own County and he did not care who was killed.

What would you do? You have some American like Al-Awaki is hiding in some county calling for the death of his fellow Americans and training people to do that? Do say we will ketch you and try to you on trial. Al awail he is out there still training and spreading his words to kill his fellow Americans. no telling how many more will die before you can get your hands on him. Would you want to take that chance?

Or with one missile strike he is no longer spreading his hate.

You decide The Chance more will die or his death

looks like i am in the minority on this. What President Obama did was right. al-Awlaki & Kahn threaten to do terrorist attacks on their fellow American Citizens. In that since they foreated that Citizenship and became targets for attack themselves. I knew i will get alot of feed back on this. I am ready for that.

1 Inspired us to go to the Moon

2 Limited Test Band Treaty

3 Peace Corps

4 School Integration

5 Kept us out of Nuclear War

6 got rid of a poll tax

I wil look though the book again let me kow what you need to know

Thanks for posting about Truly bringing a rifle to work. But one thing always stuck in my mind. Some of the reports of finding a rifle the same type that Truly brought to work.

What does everyone think about this?