Scott Kaiser

The Essex started out with 12 Skyhawks on the ship, only six flew, five got shot down, this is the secrecy they are sworn to, you see. I can tell you, I am not sworn to secrecy.

Are you saying that Castro's planes shot down the 6 US A4D Skyhawks? Tom All, but one, it wasn't just his planes, but the ground artillery too that had been given him by other countries. This was pre Cuban missile Crisis and before Russia moved their missiles into Cuba as defense, remember, Russia was already providing Castro with artillery even before the Bay of Pigs.

Would you? Personally want to know more about the Essex, it's crew, the Skyhawks and their roll in the Bay of Pigs 1961? Here are some of the surviving crew members of that day, and how to get in contact with them, I do it all the time, contact people that is. I like to expand my knowledge and not rely off documentation. Happy hunting! http://www.hullnumber.com/crew1.php?cm=CV-9

My bad, I lied to you, they were equipped with .20 cal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Essex_(CV-9)

They were equipped with .30 and .50 cal, there to provide cover for the B-26s, the problem is Tom that the B-26s came an hour late, there was a firefight between Castro's planes and the Skyhawks, problem again is, Castro won. Remember, we only had 6 Skyhawks in flight, didn't take long to bring them down, now, had the B-26s and the Skyhawks worked hand in hand, more damage would have been done to Castro's army as there would have been 19 B26s plus 6 Skyhawks to deal with, would have been a big problem for Castro in the air, and then could have put boots on the ground, but before doing so, taking out Castro's primary targets were crucial that meant all of Castro's planes, than drop bombs in and around where Castro had his men would have open up to airsupport and gorilla warfare, which is what Richard Bissell wanted.

That could very well be plausible= plausible deniability Tom. Makes sense.

Stevenson went to see Hawkins because of the 2 americans that were shot down in B-26s, or because he objected to using the sanitized US jets? Essex, an Anti-Sub carrier was assigned to Task Force Alpha. On its way to Cuba, the ASW aircraft were flown off the carrier, and replaced by AD4-2 Skyhawks on a "training mission." I've read and heard that they flew recon. I imagine their mere presence would tend to deter any attacking cuban aircraft, and this could be passed off as "non-agressive" to the UN or whoever, because they were on a "training mission" in that area.I've also been told that they actually 'took fire' from troops on the beach while providing cover for the B-26s. I've not heard that they actually fired on any of Castro's aircraft, though. Considering Castros reaction to the faked 'defecting Cuban' B-26s, his silence regarding American military jets flying cover is hard to believe, particularly when I've never found any corroboration from VA-34 pilots. Now if you have good sources that the Skyhawks actually put themselves in harms way to protect the B-26s to the point of taking fire, it would lend credibility to this scenario. Do your sources tell you that any US jet actually expended any armament while flying cover? Tom He didn't go to Hawkins, he went to the White House directly to Kennedy, Jim may disagree that the airstrikes wouldn't have played a crucial part, but I don't think Jim was ever in the military either. Stevenson was first furious over the sanitized jets because he was lied to, it was [after the two B-26s] of the first two Americans getting shot down he started yelling at George McBundy according to the stories in Miami. I have spent much time with many of the members including the Bay of Pigs museums creator in Miami where I've also provided some photos, I'm not just reading and relying on a bunch of documents. But hey, two each his own

But, what I find most amusing about this entire fiasco is the fact how the CIA was able to mange to keep pertinent information from the president of the United States, but can't keep their mouth shut about the impending fleets invasion date so that Castro could prepare himself?. Slaps my forehead!

Scott, You are referring to the A-4D Skyhawks off Essex? I've heard stories to that effect, some going so far as to state that one aircraft returned with 'battle damage.' I would expect that Castro would have raised holy hell over this, but I'm not aware of any protest by him. What is your source that the aircraft actually flew that morning? Are you saying they launched in expectation of air support, or actually engaged Cuban aircraft? Thanks for any info, Tom When the Brigade began landing on the 17 in Cuba, some Sea Fury MB.11s and Lockheed T-33s of the Cuban Air Force struck Brigade ships in the Bay of Pigs, severely damaging the Houston and sinking the Rio Escondido. The captain of the Houston managed to beach his ship before it sank, saving some of the Brigade’s supplies, and men. Castro was able to concentrate his forces in and around the the Bay of Pigs beached area and close in. The.Brigade 2506 put up fierce resistance and did a remarkable job considering how few men were involved, especially after the loss of so much of their supplies. The Brigade's B-26Bs continued to pound Castro’s forces near the Brigade locations, but were hampered by the long flight from Nicaragua where their airfields were located, this was because no airstipe had been established in Cuba, and by Cuban fighter aircraft waiting for them over the Bay of Pigs. (which did the most damage). [it has often been reported that if only U.S. aircraft had been allowed to fly over the area, had that happened then the outcome would have been different]. U.S. Navy A4D Skyhawks from VA-34 on USS Essex, with markings were "painted over", this is what cause A. Stevenson to visit with Jack when word was [first] received about two Americans that got shot down, Robert Kennedy was appointed over this mission. They, the A4D Skyhawks DID provide air cover on two occasions during the invasion, as well as engage in reconnaissance flights. President Kennedy had never been told the full scope of the invasion and was given only select analysis by the CIA throughout the mission. However, Mr. Kennedy did approve "air-cover" to the B-26s that arrived late, and as a result, they were all shot down. So, you have the CIA who's kept A. Stevenson, Kennedy and much of the Democratic leftist out of the loop about the entire operation, when Kennedy drafted the cable about no American military intervention, which was supposed to get in the hands of the CIA by Col. Hawkins, it never did. We know this by Grayston Lynch who states, "no such cable was ever delivered to the CIA". Based on this incomplete information A. Stevenson was given, he wisely declined to have U.S. aircraft attack Cuban aircraft, or become involved in the invasion. This is when he went to Washington himself, and demanded that Kennedy stop using American military. As a result, and acting on the best interest of the president George McBundy placed the call to the CIA and ordered them to "standdown" based off "National Security" which could set off a chain reaction of events. This is the reason McBundy placed that call, which all started with Stevenson. In three days, the Brigade’s invasion crumbled and the survivors were captured by Cuban forces. Small groups of Brigade members managed to escape, drifting for weeks into the Gulf of Mexico before rescued, or were picked up by Coast Guard or the remaining Brigade members already ashore or from U.S. Navy ships before withdrawing from the Bay of Pigs. Some members had escaped, while others were ransomed, and yet, more were still locked up during Johnson's administration who was also facing a ransom demand by Fidel Castro, this is one of the reasons Johnson allowed them to carry on. I understand that some of this NEW information may be pretty difficult to manage, but no one can discredit truth, all they can do is argue their opinion. This is the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help me God. Hope I was able to answer some of your questions.

And! Guess who [they] blamed for the screw up? That's right folks, the president. Get my updated book when it becomes available, it's jammed packed with information.

Greg, Thanks for the thorough response. I've read so many contradictory stories that my memory is muddled regarding the following... Did Bundy actually cancel the dawn raid outright or did he require a successful beachhead prior to allowing the B-26 attack? Did Arleigh Burke order Essex with its sanitized A-4D Skyhawks on station on his own initiative? Tom, The answer to your first question isn't as straight forward as one might expect. The air strikes were both canceled and delayed. Here's what I mean: The B-26's did in fact arrive, but they had been delayed far too long to have accomplished the goal of destroying Castro's planes on the ground. So in terms of "pre-dawn" and "pre-Brigade-landing" air strikes...they were canceled. But since they were eventually allowed to go, they were "delayed" rather than canceled. Adlai Stevenson's argument was indeed that an airstrip needed to be secured in order to promote the notion that the airstrikes originated from within Cuba. Thus the reason to delay their arrival until after a "minimum" amount of real estate could be held. He did not grasp the idea that the Brigade would be unable to capture and hold any territory if Castro controlled the air. However, by the time the 16 B-26's arrived, Castro's air force was alerted to the Brigade's having landed on the beach and were airborne. All 16 of the rebel planes were shot down. If memory serves, 14 were downed by T-33 jets, 1 by a Sea Fury, and one by triple A. The answer to your second question is very elusive. I do not know the answer definitively. However, I suspect that it was part of the "support" forces that were ready to go if--and only if--the Brigade succeeded in accomplishing the minimum requirements to obtain recognition as an interim government from a member of the UN Security Council. Had that occurred the US could have supported the new government legally. Again, I have to disagree, and here's my argument, did anyone hear me ask Jose Molina on my youtube video if there were a difference in "timezones"? between Washington and Nigaraga? His answer was no, there's no time difference. But, there is, and the reason the "cover planes" approved by Kennedy were shot down is because there was this two hour window. President Kennedy [authorized] an "air-umbrella," but, wait a minute folks, didn't Jack just get through saying no American military or American intervention what-so-ever? This is how you define "plausible deniability." At dawn of April 19th six unmarked American fighter planes took off to help defend the brigade's B-26 aircraft which were flying, no one wants to talk about that. But! The B-26s arrived an hour late, [due to the change in time zones], this is what played the factor between Jim's theory of it was "designed to fail" to it could had been successful. Please, let's keep history correct.

This was President Kennedy's first "public announcement" made about the Bay of Pigs QUESTION: Mr. President, has a decision been reached on how far this country would be willing to go in helping an anti-Castro uprising or invasion in Cuba? And what could you say with respect to recent developments as far as the anti-Castro movements in Cuba are concerned? THE PRESIDENT: Well, first I want to say that there will not be, under any conditions, be an intervention in Cuba by United States armed forces, and this government will do everything it possibly can, and I think it can meet its responsibilities, to make sure that there are no Americans involved in any actions inside Cuba. Scott Kaiser - However, three Americans were shot down, only two were reported, the rest of the statement is what's called [plausible deniability] after [some] of these men were brought back from Cuba, although, there was no American military involved in "their" fight, Kennedy, approved [operation Mongoose] and appointed Robert Kennedy in-charge, but no one wants to talk about that. Secondly, the Justice Department's recent indictment of Mr. Masferrer, of Florida, on the grounds that he was plotting an invasion of Cuba, from Florida, in order to establish a Batista-like regime, should indicate the feelings of this country towards those who wish to reestablish that kind of administration inside Cuba. Scott Kaiser - Openly blaming Masferrer was a huge mistake. Kennedy - Third, we do not intend to take any action with respect to the property or other economic interests which American citizens formerly held in Cuba, other than formal and normal negotiations with a free and independent Cuba. Scott Kaiser - Meanwhile, after president Kennedy's assassination, president Johnson was again facing a ransom demand by Fidel Castro. Apparently on the basis of the precedent-setting Bay of Pigs prisoner-exchange deal during the Kennedy Administration. You see, they didn't all come back home, and this was grounds for getting even. I really don't want to give away to much, I do want you to buy my book after all, hell why should I give it away for free? Kennedy - The basic issue in Cuba is not one between the United States and Cuba; it is between the Cubans themselves. And I intend to see that we adhere to that principle. And as I understand it, this Administration's attitude is so understood and shared by the anti-Castro exiles from Cuba in this country. QUESTION: Are we barred by our own neutrality acts or the OAS treaty from giving any aid or arms to anti-Castro elements in this country? THE PRESIDENT: Well, there are, of course, as I stated -- there is a revolutionary committee here which is of course extremely anxious to see a change in government in that country. I am sure that they are very interested in associating with all those who feel the same way. Mr. Castro enjoyed some support here in the United States, and received some assistance, when he was attempting to carry out his revolution. In fact, some Americans were involved in the military actions with him. That latter is what we are particularly anxious to ---

Here's the players involved behind a desk, the only one in this forum I know of who has more insight than anyone I know on David Morales is James Richards, he must know every square inch of David. I'm sure he even knew David was in Saigon the day of the assassination. Three weeks later David was back in the United States, but heck, ya'll already knew that didn'tcha? http://millercenter.org/presidentialclassroom/exhibits/jfks-memoir-dictation-on-the-assassination-of-diem

I bet you went to college too, see Jim, I just called the Library of Congress became friends with the people over there, [over the phone], don't want to mention any names, within five minutes, and presto they were sending me emails of what I was looking for, what's the moral of this story? No airplane ticket, no reservations, no out of pocket expenses, and I still got what I wanted. Gee, with all that money I'm now thinking I saved myself, think I'll go out and buy me a new TV.

Folks, Really, if I were you, I'd ignore me too, after all, I'm not the brightest bulb lighting up this forum. Tom, I would love to hear his elaboration too. Figuratively speaking, Jon, I have to sadly disagree with you again, although, Kennedy and his cabinet had months of talks about the Diem brother's, his intention was to get them out of the country, not have them assassinated without first having a round table sit down. Jack does however point out those who were for and opposed the assassination. And, because of a poorly drafted cable, the CIA capitalized on it as the cable went out on a Saturday and by Sunday, they were dead. Jack never said whether he was for or against the assassination, it appeared as though it didn't have much of effect on him either way.

He was giving some speech at a University in Puerto Rico. But I think you might be correct to a point. I think the prevailing perception would have been that if the US (especially CIA) was really behind an "overthrow Castro" plot, the DCI would most assuredly have been available and intimately involved in the operation rather than being out of touch and out of the country. Of course, this is just speculation, which I don't like to do. Greg's post ~ You get a college educated answer. Scott's post ~ Good question Ron, no college.

Greg, I meant, "honestly", did you catch that? hehe...

Scott, I will not give up. I am not here to engage a petulant child. I am here to help interpret the events as they are revealed through the evidence. That you disagree with me is of no concern, but what is a concern is your refusal to remain civil about it. You do not adhere to any form of intellectual honesty as far as I can tell. When confronted you don't respond persuasively. Rather, you pout and attempt to close down the responses from your critics for whom you have not provided any real answers. The reason this is so important to me is because the last thing we need is yet another under-researched, poorly reasoned, book about the Bay of Pigs. We already have the CIA's ghost writers for that. Greg, Honesty, must I too use college grammar in order to provide truth? Must I sound intellectually smart in order to provide evidence, if you'll now excuse me, I think I may need to go to the hospital, I've cracked my head open.

How could he if he wasn't? You mean, how could he not if he wasn't right? I understand the reverse roll in all that, but that fact still remains, [he didn't].

Since there are too many issues for me to cover in one post, I will restrict my response to only a portion of what you wrote above. The US outfitted RETIRED aircraft -- 16 B-26 bombers -- GAVE THEM to the anti-Castro Cubans and offered training. These aircraft were no longer in the possession of the US military, they bore no American markings, and they were not piloted by American flyers. They were owned by the anti-Castro Cuban forces, stripped of American identifiers as they no longer belonged to us, and were flown by non-US military personnel. We also acted in an advisory capacity, as well. But that is a far cry from DIRECT US MILITARY INTERVENTION. It was completely legal and in keeping with JFK's "non-direct US intervention policy." -- Emphasis should be placed on the word DIRECT. The difference is HUGE. Direct US intervention means that we would "change the outcome" if it did not suit us by engaging Cuba with overwhelming US military force, including the use of active US equipment, aircraft and service personnel. That is a violation of international law. That is what Kennedy prohibited from start to finish. That Kennedy ordered the mission to be scrubbed if Castro's planes were not destroyed on the ground speaks to his grave concern for the success of the mission and the advice of the best military thinking at the time as to the absolute necessity to control the sky above the BOP. Our best military minds advised that if the Brigade's pre-dawn air attack failed to destroy Castro's planes on the ground, the landing party would have very little chance of success. JFK understood how crucial this phase of the operation was and he issued standing orders based upon it. As far as the number of planes shot down, I am aware of more than 16. However, Prouty can only speak to the 16 that he himself procured and outfitted to be gifted to the anti-Castro Cuban forces. Greg, please give up, my phone keeps going off every time I receive an update, I now have bruises on my forehead! Perhaps, you could better relate to a movie.

How could McNamara resign when he was still in office? Paul Atkinson became Sun Ship President in 1961 and In 1965 he saw a shipping need and a Navy budgetary impediment under Defense Secretary McNamara. I'm done with telling the truth here, you all may argue amongst yourselves. I have work to do.

Greg, I am all too aware of your resume, thank you. Mr. Prouty also makes some good points, if you don't mind, I would like to counter some of what Mr. Prouty says, first off, Mr Prouty points out that (16) planes were given to them, when I have more than a dozen witnesses telling me there were (19) in total that got shot down, why is it that the government doesn't want you to know about the other (3) planes? We'll get back to that later. Than, Mr. Prouty say, "Therefore Kennedy made it very clear on [April] 16th that the landing could not take place until the Rebel's B-26's had totally destroyed the last three Castro jets...ON THE GROUND." Why would Kennedy make anything clear about the brigade's landing regarding total annihilation of Fidel Castro's jets if the American government wasn't to get involved? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? Did the American government also make those same threats when Fidel Castro preformed his coup against Batista? Tell you what, we'll, get back to that one later. Mr. Prouty further says; "Bissell had not lied to JFK; but McGeorge Bundy called Gen. Cabell, then Deputy Director of the CIA, and told him that the bombing must not take place until the invaders had landed at the Bay of Pigs. It was about 3:30 am then and Cabell was having trouble locating Rusk to get his opinion. Of all things, Allen Dulles was out of the country. That is the basic mistake. I won't carry it further here." This is all a guess on Mr. Prouty's part, and I'll tell you the reason why. Adlai Stevenson is the one who did in-fact get George McBundy to place that call to the CIA to stand-down, and I detail this in my update and how it came full circle. But, I'll tell you what, we'll get back to that later. "The office turned out to be Senator Kennedy's office and the four men were the leaders of the Cuban Exile group: Artime, Varona, Mendonca and one more." ​That other person was Masferrer. And, aside from Artime, I'm not sure if he even has the other two correct. "Kennedy said little about it except on Sunday, April 17th he finally approved the invasion with the strict proviso that all of Castro's jets would be destroyed; or the invasion force would not be landed on the beach. We all understood that." Again, how can, does, could the president of the United States makes such a pledge when he himself said, no intervention. I believe, although, he didn't want American military to get involved setting off a possible reaction of events involving Russia and perhaps a third world war over Cuba, he, [Kennedy] wanted to be very much apart of the operation, than later appoints his brother in charge of Operation Mongoose after the Bay of Pigs, but, we'll get back to that one later. The rest is pretty self explanatory, and as I've pointed out in my earlier post that I believe should not be overlooked is the fact that the cable you posted never reached the CIA. This is what's most important here. Any real thinking person can have a field day with the information I just now posted. Why? As I've said all along, the CIA did want to force Kennedy into American military, they didn't get it, Kennedy reacted, and the CIA took out Kennedy. President Nixon shutdown JMWAVE they were plotting his assassination, though it just seemed more appropriate to gather the funds they needed to re-capture Cuba. It's probably one of the most easiest reads ever put together. Oh, and I provide as much evidence and facts as I can so it's not just a story.

1. This is just the memorandum, show me the original cable, bet it's lost. 2. There are no signatures on this memorandum as received. 3. Are you getting this now? So, my original posts of slaps my forehead still stands.

Talk about screwing your president eh?