Larry Hancock

No doubt you have read it Tommy, sounds somewhat familiar to me as well. I'd like to know the source if you happen to come across it again. Of course its wrong but still....using a distance mapping tool it looks like some 1,100 miles from Atsuki to the Chinese coast. That would be beyond not only GCA radar sets but the best long distance surveillance radar of the day. Would have to do some research but I doubt you could even have tracked it as far as South Korea. The leading surveillance radar of the 59-60 period would be the AN/FPS 7 with a range of 270 miles and an altitude of 100,000 feet.

Once again I have to point out some factual issues about Oswald and the U-2" "From the Atsugi radar bubble monitoring top-secret U2 flights" Oswald worked in ground control approach radar, the systems he would have been around were for tracking local flights and relatively low altitudes on approach and departure to the runways at Atsugi....same as his later radar assignment on the west coast. That would have left him familiar with the various traffic patterns, the civilian vs. military routes and other information interesting from an air defense standpoint. However he was not a surveillance radar operator, which involves different systems. He might well have tracked a U-2 leaving or departing base but that's it, the U-2 took hours to lumber itself up to surveillance altitude and it would have been well away and well beyond any radar he was watching...and certainly no base radar could have tracked its actual mission profile over foreign targets. In short, Oswald was not monitoring top secret U-2 flights and if he knew anything pertinent about the aircraft it would have been base scuttle butt rather than any direct involvement with its missions.

Greg, I thought the book was still several weeks out from publication...did you get an advance reading copy?

Jim, having helped introduce Seamus to some of the characters in question, yes indeed its is a subculture....a derivative of the associated MJ12 saga. Beyond that is the entire gray and reptilian mythos enabled by Dolan. Of course my opinions on all those areas would differ dramatically from those of Mr. Caddy - .but for those interested in wading into the matter I would recommend Project Beta by Greg Bishop and Mirage Men by Mark Pilkington.

Thanks Glen, its all just part of many hears of slogging....and some slightly spooky interludes like the night time tour of locations in Dallas including some of the spots mentioned in my previous post. It seemed pretty clear that the person talking to me knew what he was talking about. We ended that tour with a visit to Walker's former residence.

I can add from personal experience that I was told by a member of a DPD reserve unit which focused on "subversives" that Walker was routinely monitored - including observation of his visits to clubs frequented by known homosexuals to actual rendezvous at private meeting spots. Of course at the time the standard intelligence interest was that such contacts made the individual accessible to blackmail and of course Walker as a former senior military commander did hold knowledge of the American military in Europe. I cannot vouch for that information on his monitoring although I can vouch that the individual worked for DPD in the duties he described to me.

Linda and Tommy, thanks for the postings, I think this is a most interesting thread and shows some great research. Linda, I found your most recent post very interesting - that scenario would explain a great many otherwise mysterious things. Keep up the good work! Larry

Thanks Paul, good to have that tied down...

Paul, did he mention any sources or give us reason to believe that what he wrote was more than his own speculation based on the books he had read?

Paul, you keep posting excerpts from a book whose author is unknown, whose primary or original sources are unknown and whose only cites are to other JFK conspiracy books - as you noted. Plus the true author is apparently using the name of a real, historical person - which seems to be a rather serious problem unless you have found something to suggest it is not a serious misrepresentation. Correct me if I overstated the above but what have you found that suggests the book or the excerpts you are posting is anything other than some unknown writer's speculation?

Paul, it is indeed hard to get too excited about a book which seems to have been written relatively recently but cites only JFK books and apparently gives no original sources or apparently cites any local Dallas or Texas sources. Beyond that we don't know who wrote it. And we know they apparently decided to represent it as a work by Will Fritz when there is no obvious link to him. Or am I missing something? Certainly its a new one on me.

Uh Paul, I'm pretty sure the main villain in Seven Days in May was modeled off Curtis LeMay - or at least a more PR oriented version of LeMay

Very sad news. Gary and I frequently disagreed on "interpretations" but we maintained a long term dialog and he was always an excellent resource. May he rest in peace.

Very good point Stephen, actually JFK Lancer has a set of links to a variety of different document sources and resources - not forums or discussion groups but actual resource. Its at: http://www.jfklancer.com/curatorcollections.html

John, I'm afraid I can't give much further in terms of detail as I was not acquainted with Mary in the earliest decades of her collection. I do know she did request and obtain large numbers of documents directly from the NARA bulk files (I described how that works/worked in an earlier post), friends helped her sort them, filed them and prepare indexes. Those documents were from the JFK investigations records collections that were legally turned over to the National Archives. Beyond that individual researchers did their own trips and requests to NARA and many donated copies to Mary. Eventually that collection was put on line at the MFF web site, a massive effort of scanning and posting. And those documents were added too by bulk collections from the ARRC (originally many of the ARRC documents had been made available on CD) as well as from other collections held by NARA. Hopefully you have visited the MFF site for a good idea of the range of documents available. Later, documents and other materials including some correspondence, personal files and even books were transferred to Baylor University where they are held now and are publicly available. If you are anyone else is in search of details beyond that you can certainly contact Rex Bradford directly through the MFF web site or I can send you his email. He does have a full time day job and at this point all his MFF work is strictly volunteer so you probably won't get an instant response. Of course all the original documents in the collection are still available at NARA, on microfilm and in print so anyone wishing to do primary research only has to go directly to NARA - the same way many of us did in the pre-HTML, MFF days.

Always entertaining to remember Jaye, lots of phone calls plus the special mailing list we had back in the Compuserve days. But the most entertaining was the night long ride with him around Dallas, stopping for him to make payphone calls and all sorts of mysterious stuff like that....and that was the first time I ever met him in person. Was supposed to introduce him to Madelyne Brown but that fell through at the last minute - later he sold her a PC I think. Ah, the good old days..

John, you can answer your question by going directly to the AARC, which is one of the primary sources for JFK related documents. http://aarclibrary.org/publib/contents/contents_jfk.htm

John, I don't know that when Mary was getting documents that she was using FOIA per se, I know I wasn't back in the 90's and she was at it decades earlier. It was just a matter of doing NARA requests and getting records out of the JFK collection, not from individual agencies. You requested them by mail from NARA and they did pulls for you or you went there and copied them yourself. As I understand it both Weisburg and AARC got bulk copies of JFK collection records due to the result of legal actions. So we are talking about batches of documents from NARA and the JFK collections...WC, HSCA, and even the Church Committee etc rather than documents specifically released via FOIA request from the original agencies generating them. I've only gotten into FOIA effectively when I knew very specifically what I was looking for and could go to the original agency, and even then in many cases they respond that the records in question have been turned over to NARA so then its off to NARA. Basically FOIA is a "forcing" tool to get records out of the agency of you can define them pretty tightly, the MFF collections may well contain documents produced that way by researchers and donated by my guess is the vast amount are bulk pulls directly from the various JFK collections at NARA. Also for the sake of full disclosure, its been many years since I went to NARA myself, fortunately by friend and co-author Stu Wexler is close to NARA and also expert at FOIA. He's done the yeoman's work with NARA and still fights multi-year battles over our FOIA requests; he recently got a batch of FOIA material that we had requested three years ago and got that only after two constructive challenges of FBI rejections. Most of my current work tends to take me to other sources and collections other than the NARA JFK collections.

Dawn, I did contact Joan and she said that her book is absolutely still moving towards publication; I'm waiting on an estimated date from her before posting anything specific. I have not seen any of its content myself.

John, my impression is that the bulk of Mary's documents came from her requests but as David said other researchers did share as well. I don't know anyone other than Anna Marie Kuhns Walko who actually marked documents they had themselves obtained from NARA. I should point out that a very large number of the documents on the MFF web site now came from the ARRC who got them directly from releases to NARA. Again, if anyone wants details I suggest you contact Rex Bradford directly, he would have the most accurate information.

Ron, no answer for you on the tape but I have a friend who was in a bus outside the Pentagon when the attack happened and she saw plane sections on the ground afterwards and she along with others and the whole bus she was boarding was covered by a cloud of very recognizable jet fuel....there was no doubt in her mind that a plane had been flown into the structure.

John, I don't know that there is an argument, there had been a claim that someone, at some point, altered an original document provided to the Warren Commission. the original should be on microfilm and paper copy file at the National Archives. That claim needs to be investigated to determine if it is true and if the document scan on the MFF site does indeed not reflect the original document. Given that there are a several steps in between the original document, the document that was transmitted to the ARRC and the document scan on the MFF site that investigation is going to take some time and will have to go back to NARA and most likely involve getting some NARA assistance to review the originals for comparison purposes. At this point, I've not seen anything presented beyond the assertion about a single set of Oswald time cards. This should not need to be a matter of personalities, it should be a matter of research.

Thanks for posting that Kathy, honestly with the sort of comments there are from others on the forum who have been close to this whole story I'm not investing any more time in it personally. However since a very serious charge has been made against the MFF as a source and since nobody seems to have taken this directly to Rex before, I'm sure he is going to look into it. I will certainly pass on what he may find, and for that matter what the folks at NARA might find if he manages to get them interested - he did point out to me that all the original WC documents are on microfilm as well so its even possible to check the microfilm against any paper document at the archives. I appreciate your looking it up and posting the link so folks who are new to this subject can get at least a bit of the history....

Ron, I have no knowledge of that but I do know that once most Agencies turn material over to the media and the scientific/professional research community they don't necessarily retain everything and for that matter material is sometimes just lost in the retention process or even taken....I think a few of the actual Lunar soil samples went that route. NASA went to a lot of trouble in past years to recover certain design documents that had gone into deep storage or off to archive sites. I know there is a temptation to find conspiracy in just about everything but I'm pretty sure no agency retains every document and piece of material in its own possession in perpetuity.

Karl, I will provide your reference to Rex for investigation. As to sourcing, I'll ask but my initial reaction is to go back to the process. Initially the primary source for what was posted was Mary's document collection, obtained from NARA the old fashioned way, by individual requests. That collection was expanded on by scanning of the bulk collection of documents provided by NARA to the ARRC as a result of a legal battle in which they were given access to copies of documents. That's my general knowledge of the process. There certainly is no process (or resource) to examine each document against the original item held at NARA. At this point it appears that what exists is a scan of a document which Judyth posted with claims that it represents the original at NARA... That is presented compared to a document scanned by Rex and posted on MFF ...after being obtained from the ARRC. Obviously there are two questions......what does the original at NARA really look like and are their changes to it in the MFF scan....I suppose there is also the question of who handled the original document to obtain the scan presented by Judyth. I'll refer this to Rex but of course anyone seriously interested can contact or visit NARA themselves as well. Just out of curiosity, could you elaborate on why marks relating to Judyth was supposed to be on Oswald's time card in the first place, is the claim that the markings were placed there by Oswald or Judyth herself? Anyway, this is going to take some time to investigate, I'll pass this on to Rex for starters.