Paul Trejo

Team, I asked Dr. Schoener for further clarification, and he replied:

Dr. Schoener,

I'd wondered if this was the Jack Martin that worked for Guy Banister, but clearly that can't be true given the evidence you shared. Yet this teenage Jack Martin was also a Minuteman, and General Walker was a leading member of the Minutemen. How did this teenage Jack Martin come to General Walker's home for a visit?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo, MA

From: Gary Schoener

Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:04 PM

To: Paul Trejo

Subject: Re: Seeking the 1968 companion of Harold Weisberg...

I don't know if I have any notes on this matter. Our John Martin is definitely not the guy who worked for Bannister. "Our" John Martin did not identify any connections with the case -- even the LHO thing he did not realize until after the assassination story came out. We did not find any documents relating to him and I wrote, at the time, to Robt. H. Bammer, the archivist of the US (who is a Minnesotan, by the way), and he indicated that there were no documents pertaining to him.

I wish it was not such a common name. I'd love to locate him again.

Yes, John Martin claimed to have been a member of both the John Birch Society and the Minutemen in Minnesota. I simply cannot remember what he told us about the footage regarding the Walker house photo.

Gary

Schoener makes no mention of the film showing anything to do with General Walker.

You're right, Stephen. I sent a follow-up email to Schoener for more clarification about the Film itself, which is of primary interest.

--Paul

Here's Dr. Schoener's reply:

Dear Dr. Schoener,

Thanks for the detailed response which I will share with the Forum. One further question, to be certain we're talking of the same film: it begins by showing a view from an airplane to Dallas, to visit General Walker, and shows the bullet holes in General Walker's house, correct? Then it cuts to a park in New Orleans, and a walk to Canal Street where Oswald is fighting with Bringuier, correct?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo, MA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gary Schoener

Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:39 PM

To: Paul Trejo

Subject: Re: Seeking the 1968 companion of Harold Weisberg...

Yes, it is the same film. John believed it had been edited, but was not 100% sure. He hadn't looked at it after he got it back from the FBI until he showed it to us. I have a copy of it somewhere, and I also have the printout of the frames. Harold and I both believed that LHO had a "handler" present and we think he is on the film and that he gestured to him. We did show it to different people down there but couldn't get an ID from what was a very fuzzy image.

Gary

Schoener makes no mention of the film showing anything to do with General Walker.

You're right, Stephen. I sent a follow-up email to Schoener for more clarification about the Film itself, which is of primary interest.

--Paul

I agree to most of that - however -

1) "contacts" do not change the fact that Oswald was close to few people; sure he knew lots of people and had plenty of contacts (so does my son, not to make this too personal, but he's Aspergers); but he lets few into his inner life, and I believe the same of Oswald; this is one prime reason, post-assassination, we see so little detail about Oswald's actions, movements, true beliefs. It is as though there was a barrier between Oswald and everyone else; he would be happy to talk about the things that interested HIM (politics, etc) but made very little effort to connect with others, unless it was operational or related to a personal agenda (also classic Aspergers). This also, and not coincidentally, made him a perfect patsy.

2) DeMohrenschildt was a liberal; I have no doubt about that; but you're right, he was also an a-moral opportunist; the rest is speculation (it makes no sense that his teaching at a Southern black University was some kind of cover for his attempts to prove he was pro-Negro). I agree on the basic points you make about him, but the other 80 percent is speculation. And I still believe his decision to teach at an all-black University is significant; it shows a degree of personal politic which, progressive or not as Texas may have been, could not have been common among White Southerners in the 1960s. His Liberalism is further proved by his charity toward Oswald in I am a Patsy; and let's face it, Liberals led the cover up of the JFK assassination and felt no moral compunction about lying and burying the whole thing. This was the USA in the 1960s. Liberals supported the CIA; liberals supported the overthrow of Castro.

(also, if he lost all that money because of the assassination, then his true interests lay elsewhere; this would tend to indicate he did not know there was an assassination in the works). As for George KNOWING all of that - knowing all of the interests who conspired to kill JFK - there is just no proof. I tend to think if he had, that his wife, at the very least, would have said more than just that she believed it was a conspiracy. In that particular conversation she sounds like she believes this but that she really knows very little.

as for, again, his decision to teach at that University; I am reminded of the great wave of German immigrants who were the ones who provided musical educations for African Americans in the late 19th and early 20th century, accepting African American students at a time when domestic teachers would not. As a foreign national DeMohrenschildt likely was less encumbered by prevailing racial attitudes.

Allen, your points are intersting, so I'm now getting back to them.

1) Yes, Oswald had an inner life that he kept to himself - he was not ready to come out of his self-made closet. So, I think your psychological profile of Oswald is accurate.

2) We agree that DeMohrenschildt was an a-moral opportunist liberal. Although he taught at an all-black University, we don't find him with any black friendships. That's why I speculate that this was to prove that he could get along in Haiti for hundreds of thousands of dollars. As for his charity to Oswald in "I Am a Patsy," I've had a problem with this claim since his Warren Commission testimony. He tells about his first contact with the Oswalds; he and George Bouhe took it on themselves to visit Marina Oswald out of the blue, when Lee was at work. In my opinion that was a very arrogant thing to do. Marina invited them in although Lee wasn't home. George Bouhe fell in love with her. Later, as Jeanne DM testifies, George Bouhe gave her one hundred dresses. Later, as George DM testified to the WC, George Bouhe was terrified of Oswald. I don't sense charity here - I sense cat and mouse toying.

Also, in "I Am a Patsy", George DM lied and said the 'Dallas Russian community' gave her those dresses. And he also said that Oswald wanted to get away from the 'Dallas Russian community'. In both cases George DM probably meant George Bouhe, who was hitting on Oswald's wife. Why was this not pursued? (Another lie in "I Am a Patsy": he said he could not remember who told Oswald that General Walker was another Hitler. He could not remember "Messer" Schmidt? In another interview he remembered Volkmar Schmidt very fondly, and near the end of his life he begged Schmidt to take him in. But in "I Am a Patsy" George DM says, "I think he was Jewish." So he was trying to protect Volkmar Schmidt.

2.1) I agree fully that George DM did not know there was an assassination in the works - his attention was on a possible oil fortune in Haiti. I also believe that George did not expect that Oswald would actually shoot at General Walker; after the shooting, George and Jeanne worried for days that Lee might have been the shooter. If so, this might have jeopardized his relationship with the CIA which was helping him set up his relationships with the Haiti government.

2.2) I don't believe that George knew all of the interests who conspired to kill JFK, but there is a trail. The night George DM had solid evidence that Oswald was Walker's shooter, he told Igor Voshinin, who he knew was connected to the FBI. Voshinin's wife told the FBI that very night (says Dick Russell). The FBI, out of normal protocol, would have told Walker the next day. I think we have reason to believe that George DM could figure that much out.

George DM knew that Walker was closely associated with HL Hunt, the John Birch Society and a number of paramilitary organizations. George DM knew the people in Dallas quite well. George actually lived down the street from where Walker lived. So, although George DM didn't know the details, he knew the background very well. This is why George DM insisted in the Warren Commission and in his article, "I Am a Patsy", that Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy. That much he could figure out. But as for the hard facts - I agree with you - George DM had very few.

2.3) I believe George DM's greatest guilt was that he had an indirect responsibility for Oswald's shooting at Walker. Volkmar Schmidt speaks about this topic on video at least two different times - one time feeling guilty about it, and the other time rejecting any guilt about it. But this single conversation was not the extent of it. In "I Am a Patsy", George DM admits that he and Lee used to call General Walker, "General Fokker", and this suggests a lot more than just one conversation with Volkmar Schmidt.

I believe that George DM felt guilty all of his life for the shooting at General Walker - I believe he felt an indirect role in it - as an indirect accessory - making it a possible felony. If that came out, all of his dreams would be dashed, so he had to keep it a deep dark secret. The problem I have with George DM's "I Am A Patsy" (which he wrote in lieu of testifying for the HSCA) is that it still keeps many secrets, hides relationships, and refuses to come clean. Because if Oswald really was made a patsy as punishment for shooting at Walker, then George DM was the first one to ruin Oswald.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Gary Schoener replied to my email this morning. Thought you might like to see his response:

From: Gary Schoener

Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 7:17 AM

To: Paul Trejo

Subject: Re: Seeking the 1968 companion of Harold Weisberg...

Yes, the person is me. I was a longtime friend and co-worker with Harold. The comment about John Martin being a "student" makes me wonder whether my memory is correct. I remember him as late 20's or early 30's, but that was a long time ago. My memory was that we encountered him when he phone a radio station, not at a talk -- he called into a radio show that Harold and I did together. (I had arranged for Harold to speak a the U. of Minnesota, but believe that the radio show which followed was where we heard from him).

Ironically, on that same show a photography professional whose last name was Patsy called in and he ended up taking the Martin film and printing it out. That's how we discovered that LHO appeared to be paying attention and possibly even gesturing to someone else walking parallel to him. One figure in the film was very fat and Harold immediately remarked it looked like Dean Andrews, although there are a ton of fat people in NO and there was no way that you could see his face.

The only things I recall were that John was formerly a right-winger who was a member of the John Birch Society and the Minutemen, but somehow serving under Gen. Edwin Walker in Germany caused him to become a pacifist and have to be dischrged from the army.

The film was taken on a family trip and the other segment on it showed the zoo in NO.

We did go to his home, but I have no idea where that was. I don't even know if it was in Mpls. or St. Paul.

He took it to the FBI who copied it, but did not realize until we examined it that the FBI had returned a copy, not the original. He believed that what they gave back to him was edited but was not 100% sure. He thought some footage was missing.

Gary Schoener

Gary is a member of this forum. In addition, I live near his clinic, so if you need firsthand conversation, please let me know.

Tom, that's a generous offer, and although I already sent Gary Schoener a question, it would be helpful to hear the questions from two separate media. I told him we're trying to confirm and clarify something Harold Weisberg said that included his name. I also asked if he was the right Gary Schoener.

Many thanks,

--Paul

Paul,

Probably Martin Shackelford was the source of "Martin served under General Walker."

Consider that Martin was not aware that John Martin was a teen member of the Minutemen in summer of 1963, or he would have disclosed that info and possibly altered his description of John Martin of St. Paul, MN.

As it happens, Harold Weisberg left us with a substantial lead. He mentioned the name of his friend who dealt directly with John Martin and his film. (In my last post.) Why not contact this man and possibly clear up your concerns and some of your curiousity?

http://www.walkin.org/contact-us'>http://www.walkin.org/contact-us

http://www.therapyabuse.org/papers.htm

(Scroll down near bottom of page)

....About the author: Gary R. Schoener is a clinical psychologist who has served as the Executive Director of the Walk-In Counseling Center http://www.walkin.org in Minneapolis, Minnesota since 1973. In his private practice, Gary R. Schoener Consulting, he works with and evaluates sexual exploitation victims and offenders. He has serveas a consultant or expert witness in thousands of cases of sexual exploitation by clergy and health care professionals and has consulted to employers and licensing boards. He has provided consultation and training related to sexual exploitation in numerous states and countries as well as preventive training on professional boundaries and clinical supervision. Gary R. Schoener may be contacted at: Walk-In Counseling Center....

Thanks, Tom. I will do that.

--Paul

Ok, btw I'm learning more about Walker than I have since starting to look at this in the short time you have been posting

(interestingly it was a cirquituous path from a doc in the MSC files that connected a midland Walker supporter of Walker who ran a fund drive for Walker with donations to a building in Dallas. (I think it was one of the cbd big buildings.) that finally brought me into Dallas proper)

Now the point I was making re the Walker shooting. :

A lit window at night , stationary and level and short distance and a miss( or two...?. Then the same person(s) shoot a totally different scenario with success. Did 'they' practice in between? Did 'they' mean to hit Walker?

John, thanks for the new digging into this.

As for your questions about the two shootings (April 10th and November 22nd 1963) they have been discussed by other researchers in the past, obviously.

The discussions follow similar paths: (1) we cannot assume that the shooters on April 10th were exactly the same shooters on November 22nd; (2) the shooting ability of Oswald is the subject of wild divergences in reports; (3) the bullet that made the fatal head shot for JFK appears to have been an exploding bullet, and not one from a Manlicher-Carcano.

No exploding bullets were found in the woodwork in the Walker house on April 10th.

BTW, I favor the theory that says that the brain of JFK was not allowed to be examined by ordinary doctors on November 22nd, because they would have found fragments of an exploding bullet, and not from a Manlicher-Carcano bullet. As David Lifton aptly pointed out, in the next 24 hours JFK's brain had completely vanished from examiners. This is likely because there were so many fragments from an exploding bullet that experts could not guarantee that they removed every fragment from JFK's brain in time to return it to other medical personnel.

What this tells me is that Oswald was probably not a shooter of JFK, although he was obliged to be the patsy. Notice that he was a loud FPCC supporter in New Orleans, but when he moved back to Dallas and worked at the TSBD building, he was reserved and quiet. (Something probably happened in Mexico that took the wind out of his sails.) His task may have been as simple as taking a special package to the TSBD that morning.

Also, Larrie and Bob Schmidt were not in Dallas on November 22, 1963, according to Dick Russell. So, I believe the shooters on April 10th were entirely different from the shooters on November 22nd.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Wasn't it really a shooting of the window frame?

John, there were bullet holes in more than the window frame. Some bullets entered the house and hit the wall right by Walker's ear. The investigating policeman said that a shot that close was intended to kill, not merely to frighten. Walker found bullet fragments that did not match an Italian Manlicher-Carcano rifle, and until the end of his life he continually demanded to know who the second shooter was. At one point he thought that RFK sent the CIA to be Oswald's second shooter. This comes out in the Walker archives of the Briscoe Center of American History.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Uhhhh....Paul? The kid was registered as a $2.00 paying member of the Minutemen, as of summer, 1963. Years later, he is described as a "student".

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/HW%20Manuscripts/Inside%20the%20Assassination%20Industry/Itai-00.pdf

INSIDE THE ASSASSINATION INDUSTRY

By

Harold Weisberg

© 1998, 2004

18 Garrison Like the FBI Avoided Learning who the Associates Oswald Had in

New Orleans Were

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/HW%20Manuscripts/Inside%20the%20Assassination%20Industry/Itai-18.pdf

.....In late April or early May, 1968, I returned to New Orleans, first stopping off at the upper Mississippi twin cities to speak at the University of Minnesota at Minneapolis and do some radio talk shows there and in St. Paul. The speech was in an afternoon, in a large hall, with the public invited, no admission fee. Among the things I talked about was this Oswald establishing a sort of cover with his

leafletting and picketing. Before I finished speaking, several students told my psychologist friend Gary Schoener, who had invited me, that some nice old ladies literally in tennis shoes, saw two men, Ivy League types, with a poorly-hidden recorder. Gary told me and I then needled them by spelling all names and asking to be stopped if I spoke too rapidly.

During the speech a student who identified himself as John Martin, reported taking amateur movies of Oswald when he was arrested as the result of the fracas started by the ultra-right wing Cuban anti-Castro activist Carlos Bringuier. He undoubtedly had been provoked on purpose by Oswald. I asked Martin if I might make a copy of his film, he agreed, and after the speech and questions Gary drove us to his home. He got the reel and then drove to where the University had a projection booth.

While Martin had captured only a little of that incident, there were many faces in it and I wanted to examine the footage with care. He loaned Gary his film immediately, before we left the small projection room. I had my large attache case with me. I was the only one of our small party with one.

That evening Gary drove me to the airport. I checked my luggage in. He and I watched it go down the Braniff chute. Shortly thereafter I enplaned for Kansas City, Kansas. That night I was to speak to and be asked questions by a small group of professional people including doctors, lawyers and at least one local judge in support of my friend the late Dr. John Nichols' effort to file an FOIA lawsuit

for JFK assassination information. John, a University of Kansas forensic pathologist, was waiting for me at the airport and an hour later we were both still waiting...

368

......But it did seem that someone, most likely the FBI, was quite interested in what I had gotten in

Minneapolis. The one thing that was public knowledge was the film Martin had described as showing

Oswald being arrested in New Orleans. Martin had spoken of it when I was speaking and had said

371

he'd let me see it.

Nothing was missing from my luggage other than the papers, the bills, receipts and matches.

But someone was obviously looking for something. The only possible explanation is that someone

wanted the Martin movies. That was not likely for the pictures he had taken while on a vacation that

began in Dallas and ended in New Orleans, where most of the footage was of the Audubon Zoo and of

bees on flowers.

It was not in my luggage. Nor was it in my pockets or in my attache case that I always carried.

Gary Schoener had it. Someone who had called in on a St. Paul talk show, one of a series I did

almost around the clock, had offered to help. He was a photographer.

Gary had duplicates of the reel made and this photographer made stills from some of the

footage showing Oswald being arrested. Martin's film has different angles on Oswald's face. It had that

additional interest and value.

He also told us that some of it had been removed- of that Oswald sequence. Someone

certainly did not want copies of that Martin film to exist. Even if it could only be surmised what the film could show. And all that it was known to hold was pictures of Oswald being arrested in the Bringuier fracas.

Of the possible reasons for any official interest in this John Martin film the most obvious is that it

could show and Oswald associate, what the government said he never had.

That is why I had a special interest in the Jones printing job for Oswald. My special interest

was generated by two FBI interview reports the FBI gave the Commission, of its interviews of Jones

and his secretary/assistant, Myra Silver. The reason the FBI froze the Secret Service out of that

investigation was apparent in these reports.

372

Tom, Harold Weisberg does not tell us the age of this fourth Jack (John) Martin in New Orleans in 1968, four and a half years after the JFK assassination.

Let's say, hypothetically, that he was a teenager in 1963. Is it possible that he also served under General Walker in the Army?

I ask this because the description of the film-taker is that he served under General Walker.

The US Army will only accept teenagers who are 18 and 19. But this Jack Martin would have had to serve under General Walker, and THEN be discharged from the Army, and STILL be a teenager in order to qualify as having served under General Walker and also be a teenager in the summer of 1963, when this film was taken.

So, how old was this Jack Martin that Harold Weisberg described in 1968?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

The very fact the Gen. Edwin Walker contacted the HSCA over the matter of the bullet in evidence not being the one shot at him makes me think that Walker was NOT involved in the JFK assassination. Being very quiet is something a plotter would do, not stir up the water.

Having said that Gen. Edwin Walker was good friends with H.L. Hunt who I think was at the core of the JFK assassination along with Lyndon Johnson, the CIA, Ed Lansdale, etc.

Normally, I would be very suspicious of Gen. Walker - I think his friends killed JFK. But I do not put him in the plot.

Likewise, I think it is extremely unlikely, less than 1% that Oswald shot at Walker. If Oswald is so furious about JFK's handling of the Bay of Pigs, the LAST person he would shot would be an ultra-rightist like Walker.

I think the "Oswald shot Walker" theory is absurd and a fantasy of the Warren Commission as they tried to pin everything on Oswald (JFK, Tippitt, Walker shooting).

I can see your reasoning, Robert, so let me try to respond to your challenges one-at-a-time.

1.0. Although an ordinary person would not want to bring attention to themselves after an ordinary murder, a Presidential assassin is not an ordinary person.

1.1. All Presidential assassins in the USA always admitted to the shooting, always bragged about the shooting, and always used the spotlight to explain why they were *right*.

1.2. Look at Edwin Walker's personality. He was not invited to join the right-wing ICDCC because, said Larrie Schmidt, "he always wanted the limelight."

1.3. Edwin Walker loved giving speeches in front of the largest crowds possible. That is to say, his personality was exhibitionist.

1.4. So, although the average person would seek to hide in the shadows and keep quiet about any involvement in a Presidential slaying, this would not necessarily include General Edwin Walker.

1.5. In teasing the Government with his quizzical looks and questions, Walker was toying with the 'inferior' minds of the Establishment. He was enjoying it.

2.0. You are correct, Robert, to point out the important role played by HL Hunt as a friend of General Walker. When Walker resigned from the military (not retired, but resigned without a pension) he had to have a financial backer he could rely on to forego such a large amount of money as a General's Pension.

2.1. As soon as Walker quit the military in December, 1961, he went directly to his new office in the biggest Oil Company skyscraper in Dallas. There he began to write his first speeches.

2.2. It is almost certain that HL Hunt was the one who supported General Walker when he left his military pension behind. HL Hunt poured a lot of money into General Walker's first days as a rightist pundit.

2.3. Also, Walker kept many strong contacts in the military - men who thought little of JFK; Generals and other officers; the kind of career that tends toward rightist politics. People he could rely on.

2.4. Insofar as General Walker was good friends with people you would suspect, Robert, it seems odd that you exclude him. He was just as right-wing, and he was a man of action, not just a talker.

3.0 As for the idea that Oswald was innocent of the April shooting, I need only cite some authors that you respect, for example, David Lifton, who believe that Oswald did shoot at Walker.

3.1. It would have been extremely difficult to get three Warren Commission witnesses to keep their stories straight (as I'm including George and Jeanne DeMohrenschildt along with Marina).

4.0. As for Oswald complaining about JFK's handling of the Bay of Pigs, and then shooting at Walker, this is not hard to understand. For example:

4.1. Oswald wanted to be accepted by the big boys. Most Marines criticized JFK for the Bay of Pigs, so it is easy to imagine Oswald imitating them.

4.2. Then George DeMohrenschildt and Volkmar Schmidt tried to change Oswald for weeks. Again, since Oswald wanted to be accepted by the big boys, and DeMohrenschildt was a rich and successful guy, and Volkmar was this successful engineer, Oswald let himself be led along.

4.3. Also, Michael Paine's father was a leader in the American Trotsky movement, and he tried to influence Oswald; Michael Paine just hated General Edwin Walker. So it's possible that Oswald got confirmation for an anti-Walker attitude from Michael Paine.

4.4. Also, remember that George DeMohrenschildt had in his possessions a copy of that photograph of Oswald holding a rifle, a gun and two radical newspapers; and on the back was printed, 'to my friend George DM' and in the Russian language, "Hunter of Fascists, ha ha."

4.5. Only the kind of person who needs to please other people would send out a self-portrait signed like that. Oswald was trying to please George DM. Oswald thought the 'Hunter of Fascists' remark would please George DM. Why? Because these words came first from George DM.

5.0. The "Oswald shot Walker" theory still has plenty of energy.

5.1. Dick Russell, for example, proposes that Oswald acted in a group of three: Oswald, Larrie Schmidt and Bob Schmidt, two radical right-wingers, in shooting at Walker.

5.2. Now, we might not believe that a rightist would shoot a rightist, but Dick Russell believes it.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

If Walker was involved in setting up Oswald for the assassination it would make absolutely no sense for him to kick up a fuss about the evidence allegedly tying Oswald to the attempt on his own life.

Agreed. That's why I don't believe that Walker set Oswald up for either the assassination or the shooting at his house. Carrying your reasoning one step further, if Walker set up Oswald for his own shooting and the shot was made from the Depository rifle using the copper jacketed bullets, why would Walker say that CE 573 was not the bullet ?

So I don't think that Walker was involved in setting Oswald up.

I believe the DALLAS COPS were involved in setting Oswald up and the framing of Oswald ( albeit post-mortem ) was continued by the FBI.

These are all very interesting objections to my theory, guys, so I appreciate it.

As for your theory, Gil, I see no contradiction between a Walker theory and a Dallas Police department theory. Walker was one of the most famous of the local residents in Texas; a true leader of men in Dallas. Remember William Turner's book, POWER ON THE RIGHT (1971), which claimed that it was impossible to get a job as a policeman in Dallas in the fifties and early sixties unless one was a member of the KKK, or the Minutemen or the John Birch Society - preferably all three.

He wasn't joking. The American rightists were self-righteous enough to insist on these tenets, and in Dallas they were such a majority that they had the power to enforce them. Now, General Edwin A. Walker was a leader of exactly this sort of person.

How many of these men were former military men? I would estimate a solid majority. How many had served under General Edwin Walker (who was 54 years old in 1963)? A fair number, I suspect. Edwin Walker was a well-known speaker across the USA. When he spoke in Dallas, he packed the venue. Who paid money to go listen to an ex-General spout right-wing vitriol?

I suspect the Dallas Police Force contributed more than the average number of adherents to Edwin Walker. Add to this the fact that Edwin Walker was an *official* in the Texas Minutemen organization. This group of rifle-carrying sharpshooters was more ideologically aligned than the National Rifle Association. Minutemen who reported directly to Edwin Walker - in the Dallas Police Department? YOU BET!

The attack on Adlai Stevenson in Dallas on 10/24/1963 was clearly inspired by General Walker's "revival" meeting on the evening of 10/23/1963 - where he spouted that the UN was Satan Incarnate! It is easy to imagine how the crowd could lose control if the Dallas Police were themselves part of the crowd.

Finally, consider the case of Roscoe White, former military and a fantastic sharpshooter. Was he also a Minuteman? Was he a member of the KKK? Well, he joined the Dallas Police Force in October, 1963, and he was a trainee on the force in November, wearing the uniform, the badge, and carrying the gun. Ron Lewis in his book, FLASHBACK, says that Guy Banister personally selected Roscoe White to be in Dallas on 11/22/1963.

So, Gil...the Dallas Police? I'm on board with that. But in my opinion, this places General Edwin Walker in the front row once again.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

I'm still searching for my Martin file (I moved recently, and it's in a box) but I did locate my notes, taken from that file. I wrote that Jack S. Martin Sr. (as Edward Stewart Suggs) "was an unsuccessful candidate for the US Navy but served in the US Army in World War II." More as I re-locate it.

Stephen, this is a solid step forward. I appreciate your efforts on this topic. Edwin Walker (later to become a General) also served in the US Army in World War II, and obviously I would like to know if Jack Martin served alongside Edwin Walker in any capacity.

If, for example, it turns out that Jack Martin served under Edwin Walker, then the Jack Martin Film, which is claimed to be produced by somebody who served under Walker's Army command, might have been made by Jack S. Martin Sr.

It could hardly have been made by a teenager who lived at the address given in official documentation.

Thanks again,

--Paul Trejo

Paul sounds like you have a really comprehensive timeline for Walker? Could you do a post on it. (if it goes far back that would be great as I think his time processing prisoners of war in Norway and his role in Little Rock are particularly pertinent (Even his and his lawyer Watts involvement with the FBI regarding MAD magazine, while funny does tell some things..)

John, thanks for the vote of confidence. However, my timeline of General Walker is still under construction. I use information from the Warren Commission (1964), Chris Cravens (1991), Dick Russell (1992) and the Briscoe Center for American History. I am only now beginning to form a consistent portrait of a conspiracy.

Here, however, is another vital snippet -- the time when JFK and RFK detained General Walker in a psychiatric prison in September of 1962. (Part of this was posted in another Forum thread, so my apologies if you've seen it.)

1. IMHO, the main motive for General Walker's participation (or leadership) in a conspiracy to kill JFK in Dallas on 11/22/1963, begins with the Kennedys unjustly detaining General Walker for psychiatric examination. Walker was no random psychopath - he was a former US General, heavily decorated for service to the USA in World War Two and Korea.

2. But the Kennedys were taking strident jabs at the John Birch Society (JBS) starting in 1960, and General Walker was a member of the JBS since 1959. As Commander of the 24th Infantry Division in Augsburg, Germany, Walker circulated Birch Society literature in his Pro-Blue program of soldier education. Walker reasoned that since soldiers were risking their lives to fight Communism, that they deserved to know what Communism "really" was.

3. But in the August of 1960, folks from the OVERSEAS WEEKLY newspaper, which was far more liberal, grew tired of taking insults from Edwin Walker, whom they suspected of being gay. So the OVERSEAS WEAKLY openly printed that the Pro-Blue Program was a right-wing brainwashing program.

4. The Joint Chiefs and Robert McNamara then relieved General Walker of his command and moved him to an isolated desk job. Walker had cause a "shore flap", and crossed the line, they said, when he called Eleanor Roosevelt and Harry Truman 'pink' in his memoranda.

5. Yet General Walker had plenty of friends in Congress and in the Texas legislature. Thirty Senators of the Texas Senate in May, 1961, for example, demanded reinstatement of Walker's command over the 24th Infantry Division. But to no avail. On June 12, 1961, the Joint Chiefs formally 'admonished' Walker.

6. This was opposed in Congress by Barry Goldwater, John Tower, Strom Thurmond, Bob Dole and Dale Alford. Public support of Walker was very high. Goldwater called the JFK dmonishment, "Muzzling the Military."

7. In response, near then end of October, 1961, the Kennedys offered Walker a transfer to Hawaii, and a promotion. But as November, 1961 opened, General Walker resigned.

8. Repeat: Walker did not retire, nor was he fired. He was the only US General to resign in the 20th century. By resigning instead of retiring, he gave up a $1,000 a month pension (which amounts to $10,000 monthly in 2011 dollars). He was 52 years old.

9. He explained his resignation saying that Hawaii was just a stepping stone to Vietnam, and he'd vowed he'd never enter into another undeclared war after Korea.

10. Why would he do this? Well, Eisenhower had also chimed in against Walker, by saying in public that as long as a man wears a military uniform, he has no business entering politics. Walker later made it clear that by leaving the military, he would be free to enter politics. That's really what happened.

11. To get started - since he had no pension now - somebody had to bankroll him. As soon as he left the Army, General Walker received a free office in one of the Oil Company skyscrapers in Dallas. So - who do we think lent him his first bankroll? For that matter - who encouraged him to abandon his pension and pursue a life of politics?

12. Walker spent his first months out of the military typing speeches. At the end of 1961, Walker appeared on ABC television, on "Issues and Answers", where he declared himself a non-aligned anti-communist, period. Days later he was on the front cover of Newsweek (12/4/1961) as the face of USA rightists. Things were looking up.

13. Walker's speeches were very well attended and lucrative for him. Thousands attended. Governors and Mayors would introduce him.

14, Walker would get multiple standing ovations as he slammed the White House for: (1) accepting a divided Germany; (2) recalling MacArthur from Korea; (3) letting Cuba go Red; (4) the Bay of Pigs; and (5) Muzzling the Military. (In his first speech, the crowd applauded 109 times in 90 minutes, and there were fifteen standing ovations.)

15. After his first speech, Mayor Earl Cabell gave Walker the key to Dallas and a Stetson hat. (This event was filmed and can be found on Youtube.)

16. As 1962 began, Walker was on 100 radio stations and closed circuit TV. (He was on the fast track to become the 'Rush Limbaugh' of his day.) He advocated only two groups: the JBS, and the Texas-based 'National Indignation Committee'. In this way, Walker earned lots of money and got lots of attention, so he was almost ready to enter politics.

17. In early 1962, he took $1,000 to Austin to file his bid to run for the office of Governor of Texas, and he entered the race against John Connally.

18. But first things first: in April, 1962, Walker had to testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee, and its Subcommittee on Cold War Education, about "muzzling the military." Because, even though he retired, the whole question of JFK trying to tell Generals what they could and could not teach their soldiers, became a Congressional issue.

19. Senator John Fulbright complained that some Army Officers were taking political stands. Senator Strom Thurmond retorted that Fulbright wished to muzzle the military and demanded a vote on Officer Censorship. The Kennedys, fearing Walker could become a martyr, banned TV and Radio coverage of these hearings. The Senate hearing room was packed.

20. Predictably, Walker pontificated like Joe McCarthy, and was arguably making some progress, when suddenly, Norman Rockwell of the USA Nazi Party entered the Senate hearing room wearing a full Nazi uniform and shouting out praises of Walker. Rockwell was quickly ejected, but the damage was done.

21. This public embarrassment contributed to Walker's poor showing at the polls, and he failed to win the Democratic nomination for Governor of Texas.

22. Still, Walker continued his successful speaking tour. He developed a closer relationship with right-wing radio commentator, Bill Ray Hargis, and so increased his prospects of national fame and wealth.

23. Walker set up 'Friends of Walker' clubs throughout Texas, based in Dallas. He started the American Eagle Publishing Company. He erected a billboard on his front lawn on Turtle Creek Road. He changed the message weekly, viz:

* The UN is Treason

* Impeach Earl Warren

* Dump Estes

* Sodom, Gomorrah or Wallace

24. Notice that first billboard, which many of us may have seen on USA highways or bumber-stickers. "US out of UN" was like a religion for Walker; he despised the UN above all other institutions. He didn't hate Adlai Stevenson personally, but since Adlai was the US Ambassador to the UN, he was fair game according to General Walker.

25. I would also point out that second billboard, "Impeach Earl Warren." This was an on-going drumbeat of the right-wing from 1960 through 1964. Walker had little respect for the Supreme Court in general, and accused the judges of being "Antichrist." Yet Earl Warren would figure in Walker's personal life in the months to come.

26. Suddenly, everything changed on September 10, 1962, when Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black decided in favor of James Meredith, a Negro Air Force veteran, who sued to attend Oxford University in Mississippi, which was exclusively open to whites only.

27. On 9/13/1962, Mississippi Governor Ross Barnett announced he would fight the Supreme Court.

28. On 9/26/1962, Walker went on radio KWKH and said:

- "It is time to move!

- "We have talked, listened and been pushed around far too much by the Antichrist Supreme Court!

- "Rise to stand beside Governor Ross Barnett at Jackson Mississippi!

- "Now is the time to be heard!

- "Ten thousand strong from every State in the Union!

- "Rally to the cause of Freedom!

- "The Battle Cry of the Republic!

- "Barnett, yes, Castro, no!

- "Bring your flags, your tents and your skillets!

- "It is time!

- "Now or never!"

29. When the Associated Press asked Walker if he wanted his followers to bring guns, he said, "That's up to them!" Walker said he opposed forced integration. This was about States' Rights.

30. On 9/28/1962 Walker flew a private plane to Jackson, Mississippi. He called for a "national uprising against the conspiracy from within!" He warned that thousands were coming. He warned that "any violence would start with the Feds!"

31. On 9/29/1962 JFK told hundreds of Federal Marshalls to proceed to Mississippi. That evening a riot broke out on the Oxford campus. On the lawn outside the Lyceum building a hostile crowd of about 2,000 youths was chanting: "Go to hell, JFK! Go to hell, JFK!" They threw eggs, rocks and bricks at the Marshalls.

32. Kennedy came on national radio and defended his decision. He added that James Meredith had been in his dorm room for an hour, and still had Federal protection.

33. A newsman's car was trashed by the mob - and his camera was smashed and burned. Tear gas did not move this mob - one Marshall was wounded by a shotgun, but the Marshalls had orders not to return fire.

34. At 9pm Walker walked to the front of the mob, in silence, and surveyed the situation, and ultimately sent the mob home. The crowd booed and jeered and began to disperse...slowly.

35. But at midnight some stragglers were still trashing the campus. At 1:30am Walker went back to his Hotel. At 2am JFK sent in regular troops. Now the violence began; 106 Marshalls were wounded. One local citizen was killed. One French reporter was killed.

36. Despite all this, on 9/30/1962, at 8am, James Meredith was registered as a student. By 9am the crowd was finally gone.

37. The Associated Press reported that Walker led one of the charges of the rioting students. The United Press reported that Walker advised the mob to disperse. The Kennedys chose to believe the AP. That morning Walker was apprehended by Military Police, and arrested by the Feds. RFK charged Walker with insurrection and conspiracy, based only on the AP story.

38. Bond was set at $100K, and Walker's brother quickly began to raise the bail, but RFK suddenly ordered the Army to detain Walker at the US Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield, Missouri, which was a psychiatric hospital.

39. Walker was locked up under maximum security. Walker's lawyers claimed he was lucid, and Walker denied charges that he incited to riot.

40. Dr. Robert Morris reported that Walker was paranoid, because 'Walker thinks he's a political prisoner!' (Yet common sense saw that he really *was* a political prisoner!)

41. Ironically, the ACLU sued for Walker's release. Here was 'martyrdom' at the hands of RFK! This was the new 'psychiatric fascism'. Rightists fed the flames by charging that psychiatry makes people communists! Common sense agreed that if psychiatry were ever to become a political weapon, it would necessarily be an evil force.

42. On Wednesday 3, 1962, according to one report, Katzenbach tried to make a deal with Walker: freedom in exchange for silence. Walker replied: This is blackmail! Go to hell!

43. On Sunday, October 7, 1962, Walker was released. He returned to Dallas to a hero's welcome; 3,000 admirers and US flags flying. After a local doctor pronounced Walker to be 'very fit,' Walker immediately began giving speeches again.

44. On January 21, 1963, the White House dropped all charges against Walker. Then Walker sued AP for libel. Ultimately he won and was awarded $3 million.

45. But AP appealed to the Supreme Court, and ironically it was Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren who heard the case -- the very Judge for whom Walker had been demanding impeachment for years.

46. Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren threw out of court the case from the Birch Society leader, Edwin Walker, and Walker never saw a penny of that money.

47. Nevertheless, Walker returned to his lucrative speaking career, and continued to address thousands of people to standing ovations. It seemed that Walker would always be a favorite speaker of the extreme right wing in the USA.

48. Everything changed again for Edwin Walker when somebody took a pot-shot at Walker at his Dallas home on 4/10/1963.

49. Now, Marina Oswald said that Lee Oswald admitted being that shooter. However, General Walker - till the day he died - insisted that Lee Oswald was only one of his shooters on that day.

50. Neighbors reported two men escaping in a Ford sedan, and perhaps another escaping in a '58 Chevy from a Church parking lot. Walker continually sought who the other shooters were.

51. Dick Russell said that the other shooters were Larrie and Bob Schmidt - by Bob's own confession. If this is true, then here again we find Oswald consorting with rightists (not leftists) and also being part of a conspiracy and not a 'loner'.

52. George and Jeanne DeMohrenschildt confirmed for themselves that Lee Oswald was Walker's shooter when they visited the Oswalds at 10pm on 4/13/1963. They saw the rifle; they saw the guilty look on Lee Oswald's face when confronted with the question (even if only as a joke). They never saw the Oswald's again.

53. But George DeMohrenschildt did tell Mr. and Mrs. Igor Voshinin his suspicions that Oswald was Walker's shooter, and Mrs. Voshinin told the FBI immediately.

54. Later in 1963, Gerry Patrick Hemming reported that he saw the ex-General Edwin Walker at the Lake Pontchartrain mercenary training camp for Cuban Exiles who would try again to take over Cuba. JBS member, Guy Banister (a former chief of the FBI in Chicago) was also there. So was David Ferrie.

55. Was this a social visit, or was this a meeting to plan some sort of revenge on Lee Harvey Oswald?

56. Be that as it may - less than 24 hours after the assassination of JFK (as shown by FBI records available on the Mary Ferrell web site) General Walker conversed with neo-Nazi news editor, Helmut Muench, and told him that 'the same assassin who killed JFK was the same person who shot at me on 4/10/1963.'

57. We know this because Muench's newspaper, the Deutsche NationalZeitung, assigned newsman Hasslo Thorsten to interview Walker at length, and published this long interview in its 11/29/1963 issue. This issue is also among the FBI records.

58. Walker would say all of his life that he knew that Oswald was only one of his shooters, since some bullet fragments he found in his house were from a different rifle. Also, he knew that the government (the FBI, the CIA and RFK himself) knew about his shooting, and he would ask if RFK and the CIA were really the ones behind that attempted assassination.

59. Till the end of his life, Walker would tell people about the irony that Oswald tried to kill him in April, 1963, but since he was not pursued by RFK, the same Oswald killed JFK in November, 1963. So, ultimately, RFK had only himself to blame for the assassination.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Not mentioned in the above reports are the roles of Larrie Schmidt and those who left the US military in Germany with the expressed purpose of infiltrating and taking over conservative organizations in USA, including Young Americans for Freedom and Walker's group, and the fact that the doctor at the Springfield federal medical facility, after the assassination, sent the Warren Commission a report on those incarcerated there who threatened the president, and most of them were former or active soldiers.

BK

JFKcountercoup

Right again, Bill. Dick Russell in his excellent research book, "The Man Who Knew Too Much" (1992) gives a good accounting of Larrie Schmidt and his brother Bob in 1963.

Starting around page 320, Dick Russell finds Larrie Schmidt moving to Dallas in October, 1962. He was a US military kid who'd served two tours of duty in Munich and had great ambitions of being a right-wing leader. He started an organization named Conservatism USA (CUSA) and their goal was to infiltrate rightist groups in the USA to consolidate them all under Larrie Schmidt.

In Dallas, Larrie sought support from HL Hunt. On November 2, 1962, he met with HL Hunt and General Edwin Walker. On February 2, 1963 his diary says: "We neet at the home of Robert Morris, who is Walker's attorney." On February 9, 1963 he wrote: "We infiltrated the head office of the YAF (Young Americans for Freedom). We will use their name on our letterhead from this moment on, since they have 50,000 members."

So, Larrie Schmidt was making fast progress. Larrie also received support from Charles Willoughby, a financier of the German ICDCC (International Committee to Defend Christian Culture) which was formerly a Nazi organization, but in 1950 became merely an Anti-communist organization.

The most famous member of the ICDCC in Dallas was Billy James Hargis who was the leader of the segregationist 'Christian Crusade'. (General Walker was not invited to join the ICDCC because he always sought the limelight.)

Anyway Larrie Schmidt was well-known for telling peeople, "My hero is Goebbels." What Walker didn;'t know was that, ironically, Schmidt and Willoughby were the ones who had attacked General Walker in Germany, by complaining to the State Department that Walker was pushing John Birch Society materials to the troops! (It was a case of right-wing against right-wing!)

Another fact about Larrie Schmidt was that he was the whiz-kid who was paid $1,500 by the JBS to write that famous Ad, "Welcome Mr. President" in the 11/22/1963 Dallas Morning News.

Anyway, in October, 1963, General Walker hired Bob Schmidt as his full-time chauffer. They had already taken over the Young Americans for Freedom as well as the National Indignation Committee, and now they were going after General Walker's "American Eagle" publishing house.

It is odd that HL Hunt was one of General Walker's biggest supporters, yet at the same time HL Hunt was also one of Larrie Schmidt's biggest supporters, and he knew that Larrie was very ambitious. To support Larrie Schmidt, HL Hunt paid Bradford J. Angers, PI, to hire Schmidt as a consultant.

After the JFK assassination, the FBI went looking for the Schmidt brothers. Brad Angers only found Bob Schmidt, who gave this confession: in early April, 1963, Larrie and Bob Schmidt collaborated with Lee Harvey Oswald to kill General Edwin Walker. They used the Schmidt's Ford sedan for the shooting. They used two rifles. Bob believed that Hunt knew about this.

When Dick Russell personally confronted General Walker about this story, Walker said, "Yes, Larrie took over the NIC and the YAF and came after me!" Russell asked: "is it possible that the Schmidt brothers joined LHO to kill you?" Walker replied: "I have been told that! They were plenty capable of working with LHO, sure. Several people investigated the shooting as best they could and raised that possibility! I think it is rather natural to suspect that they were helping him one way or another!"

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

...What actually happened in April of 1960 was that Walker started his Pro-Blue campaign there in Germany.

Didn't something else happen on April 17, 1961?

BK

Right you are, Bill. On April 17, 1961, the Bay of Pigs invasion commenced, and was quickly thwarted, much to the humiliation of JFK, the CIA and the entire USA.

--Paul

Yes, I agree, but part of the point I was making is that she said ''Oswald told her''. That's not the same as Oswald did it.

Sill:

as a side issue there's a bit in Oswalds 'manuscript where he writes a bit about the Minutemen, I think it worthy of consideration.

Also a JBS MO is illustrated by the ''Reagan Ruckus'. (Discussed in the Berkley Barb.)

Gotcha.

Why would he tell her that though if he didn't do it?

You may have already considered this, Martin, but I don't see it in this thread, so I'll present for your comment the research given by Dick Russell in his book, The Man Who Knew Too Much in which he talks about the Walker shooting a great deal. Here's what Dick Russell presented:

1. Oswald was continually complaining to George DeMohrenschildt and Volkmar Schmidt how badly JFK messed up with the Bay of Pigs.

2. DeMohrenschildt and Schmidt decided to change Oswald's focus of anger onto a guy they didn't like: General Edwin Walker, who in late 1962 was involved in race riots in Mississipi, at Oxford University, when James Meredith, a black Air Force veteran, insisted on attending that college.

3. As a result of this riot, RFK had General Walker committed to an insane asylum. (This lasted about a week, and then Dr. Thomas Szasz and the ACLU objected that General Walker was a political prisoner, and that he was no more insane than anybody else in the right-wing of USA politics.) The Justice Department dropped the charges.

4. Anyway, DeMohrenschildt and Schmidt worked on Oswald until Oswald became enraged at General Walker, and began to act.

5. In early 1963 Oswald, forged a fake ID, obtained some weapons, and had Marina take a photo of him wearing his weapons.

6. Since Oswald worked at the Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall photocopying shop, Oswald had access to photographic tools to make a fake ID, and to alter Marina's photograph so he had at least two variations (so he could later prove that they were faked, if they ever fell into the hands of the police).

7. For his odd behavior, he was fired by Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall.

8. During this time, Walker was on a right-wing speaking tour with Billy James Hargis; the so-called Midnight Ride, in which they made lots of money warning packed arenas about Communists in the US Government.

9. During this time, also, there were a couple of young right-wing leaders from just ending their US Army tour in Germany, Larrie Schmidt and his brother, Robbie Schmidt, who were trying to infiltrate General Walker's right-wing organization, to try to take it over.

10. Larrie Schmidt and his brother didn't make much progress. Yet Dick Russell talked to Robbie Schmidt and learned the following story:

11. One day Larrie and his brother met Oswald - they didn't say how. They got to talking about how much they all hated General Edwin Walker, and they agreed to go shoot him. (This is on page 326 in Dick Russell's book.)

12. So, they planned it out, carefully. They used the Schmidt's car. (LHO lied to Marina about using the bus with Marina, to protect the Schmidt brothers.)

13. There were at least two rifles in that shooting. So General Walker could find shells that were not from an Italian rifle, while others would find the Italian shells.

14. There were at least two people in the car that the witness saw drive away.

15. So, Oswald told Marina part of the truth.

16. I believe that Marina told the truth in her sworn testimony to the Warren Commission, and she never changed that testimony.

17. Remember that Marina told the Warren Commission that she had very little information to work with, and that Oswald kept her in the dark. She always said that if she had more information, her opinion would change.

18. For example, Oswald lost his job with Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall on 4/1/1963, but he didn't tell Marina about it until weeks later. Still, he left the house every morning, as if going to work. What was he doing? She had no idea.

19. On 4/13/1963, George and Jeanne DeMohrenschildt argued with each other all evening about who shot at General Walker. They were afraid to think it was Lee Oswald, whom they had tried to help.

20. At 10pm on Saturday evening, they took a toy Easter bunny to the Oswald's, for the baby. They were invited in. In that time, Jeanne looked around for a rifle, and she found it. She told George by yelling it across the house.

21. George made a joke about Oswald shooting at Walker, and Oswald just froze. So did Marina. Then George laughed, and they all laughed. Then the DeMohrenschildt's left for the evening -- and they never laid eyes on the Oswald's again in their lives.

22. The next day, reports Dick Russell, George DeMohrenschildt tells his friends Mr. and Mrs. Igor Voshinin that Oswald was Walker's shooter. As soon as he left, Mrs. Walker immediately told the FBI. (This is on page 318 in Russell's book.)

23. This is important because in the Warren Commission the FBI said they had no clue that Oswald was Walker's shooter until Marina told them so in early December, 1963. So they lied; they knew.

24. General Walker also knew (probably from the FBI themselves, that very night). Dick Russell proves this by reference to the German newspaper, the Deutsche NationalZeitung, which had an exclusive interview with General Walker on 11/23/1963, less than 24 hours after the JFK assassination.

25. In that interview, according to Helmut Muench of that newspaper, General Walker told him that Oswald had been his April shooter. The publication of that interview on 11/29/1963 is today a matter of public record. (The text can be found in the Mary Ferrell archives.)

26. All his life, General Walker would tell people that Oswald was his shooter. It is the subject of many of his letters and articles.

27. Yet to the Warren Commission, General Walker said he did not know who shot at him; and that the bullets that he found did not match the bullets that the FBI found.

28. General Walker also denied to Dick Russell that he knew beforehand, and he insisted that the German newsman "guessed right".

29. But when Dick Russell confronted him with evidence that Larrie Schmidt and his brother were also involved, Walker did not reject that information, but said, "I have been told that!"

So, in conclusion, Martin, John Dolva is correct in saying that Marina could be telling the truth (as she heard it) and Oswald could have been telling the truth (i.e. part of the truth) and General Walker could also be telling the truth (that he wished to share).

In my theory, Walker, to get revenge on Lee Harvey Oswald for this shooting, sought to make Oswald a patsy in a conspiracy that he had heard about from his extreme right-wing connections (that probably included Guy Banister in New Orleans).

Marina Oswald, George DeMohrenschildt and Jean DeMohrenschildt were accessories to the Walker shooting; after the fact, since they didn't call the police. That is why they all acted so guilty so often.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Thanks for the timeline Paul. However, you have a small error at the top;

you said that Kennedy relieved Walker in August 1960. Since JFK wasn't

elected yet, I think you meant to say April of 1961.

Oops! Yes, you're right, Tom. It was actually on April 17, 1961 that JFK and McNamara relieved Walker of his command of the 24th Division there in Augsburg, Germany, pending a review of the allegations that he had called Harry Truman and Eleanor Roosevelt "pink" to his troops in his Pro-Blue campaign.

While the investigation of Walker was in progress, Walker was transferred to a desk job in Heidelberg, Germany.

What actually happened in April of 1960 was that Walker started his Pro-Blue campaign there in Germany.

Thanks for the correction,

--Paul

Bill,

I don't expect you can get to your Jack Martin, "film" from here, or from anywhere. It would be too coincidental for there to be another besides the one from St. Paul, MN, covered in my last post. What do you have to go on besides this, from Martin Shackelford? Can anyone post relevant frames or film clips reliably attributed to a source matching Shackelford's narrative?

<snip>

For there to be another film,aside from the one Harold was dealing with in 1970, you would have to overcome this, unless this kid had a father who had the same name. Is this teenager traveling to Dallas and NOLA, alone, documenting history as it happened? Really?

<snip>

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=949264

NO TITLE pg 60

Found in: FBI - HSCA Subject File: Minutemen Club

folder on him & no further activity details Dues paid $2.00 Aug 1963 MARTIN JOHN T 29602 1752 Iglehart Apt 4 St Paul 4 Minnesota Phone Sex M age 17 occupation student Hobbies & skills music coin

RIF#: 124-90116-10157 (01/17/66) FBI#: 105-4921-182

So, it seemed to end up as a duel between the FBI's position vs. the word of, at the time of the incident, a 17 year old, dues paying, right wing extremist (unless he was fronting for a father of the same name.) Also kind of weird that both of these "film makers" were under 18 years of age at the time they made these two historic films. Could it be that General Walker or his followers were using the Martin teenager, but his timing and placement were deemed to blatant by FBI and WC reviewers, even by their science fiction level standards? Why has the former narrative been allowed to linger and be picked up by Jim Marrs, as well? Harold and Martin never got around to noting that the Dallas-NOLA, Martin mystery film was based on the word of a 17 year old minuteman?

...

Tom, this is good research. By showing that the John Martin who took the film showing (1) General Walker's shot-up house; and (2) Lee Harvey Oswald being arrested for fighting with Carlos Bringuier, was only a teenager you have increased the odds of a cover-up, IMHO.

Is it an accident that there are four Jack Martins? Was it an accident that there were multiple Lee Oswalds?

It seems to be the modus operandi of Guy Banister to hide his sources by changing their age and address using nothing more than a local telephone directory. "Oh, not that Jack Martin, you must mean this other Jack Martin." And, "oh, not that Lee Oswald, you must mean this other Lee Oswald."

I cannot avoid the suspicion that the Jack Martin who made that footage (which I am itching to view) of Walker and Oswald in the same reel, showing two different but allegedly related 'crimes', was intentionally trying to link Walker and Oswald visually.

If so, the message was that Lee Oswald was a communist nut who was running wild. To what end? It was probably going to be used to prove that JFK's killer was a communist, not a rightist, so the USA should invade Cuba. If so, then the Jack Martin who took this film was probably connected with Guy Banister (who was connected to General Walker through the JBS and the Minutemen), because Banister fervently wished that the USA would invade Cuba.

It would cinch things for me to learn that Jack S. Martin Sr. served in the military under General Edwin Walker, either in World War Two, or Korea, or perhaps only in the 24th Division in Germany.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

...But for those who are familiar with Al's Diner, George Amberson, Sadie Dunhill or a particular day in September 1958 and the Butterfly Effect......one cannot read those pages and not think alot about General Edwin Walker, and if you subscribe to wife Tabitha King's take on November 22nd, instead of Stephen's you can't claim to understand everything about the Walker shooting unless you've read. The Walker Shooting Revisited [page 206 Dick Russell - The Man Who Knew Too Much]...

Robert, I especially appreciate that you recalled the work done by Dick Russell on General Edwin Walker. Russell visited General Walker personally, once in the 80's and once in the 90's as I recall.

Walker was convinced that Oswald was his shooter, and he sidestepped Russell's question about his telling the German newspaper (Deutsche NationalZeitung) about this allegation on 11/23/1963, less than 24 hours after JFK's assassination.

Also, to Liebeler and the Warren Commission, Walker said that he 'was never sure about it.' To others, however, Walker proudly announced it often. To Dick Russell, however, Walker repeated the lie he told the Warren Commission, namely, that the German newspaper guys "guessed it right".

The Mary Ferrell Foundation archives, however, show that Liebeler had FBI evidence that Walker certainly did talk to Helmut Muench on 11/23/1963, and Muench informed them that Walker indeed told the German newsmen that Oswald was his 4/10/1963 shooter. But the Warren Commission didn't officially know that Oswald was Walker's shooter until Marina told them in December. Walker wiggled out of it with Dick Russell, too; although Russell wasn't quite convinced.

In my theory, after George De Mohrenschildt told his Dallas friends that he suspected Oswald was Walker's April shooter, those friends told the FBI, the FBI told Walker (perhaps through Guy Banister) and as early as 4/14/1963 General Walker set in motion his revenge against Oswald - to make him the patsy of a plot.

We need to keep seeking out all signs that Walker was tracking Oswald from 4/14/1963 through 11/22/1963. And we need to keep in mind that Walker was very shrewd.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

(edit typos)

I think the answer lies in a consideration of the consequences of a finding that it was indeed a far right militant plot could have ripped the USofA apart from the inside. The homeland struggle was centered already around civil rights. Fonzi in his intro stated all 5 teams, one of which was focused on this angle, found credible reasons to pursue its angle. He choose one, other choose others. The one few choose was this one. I think Warrens first response to the news was to blame them. He knew very well about the JBS from direct experience (impeach earl warren). As it was, the possible Civil War was averted and turned into a decade long struggle. (and we're back to Voltaires time of indefinite extra juducial detention again in the 'free' world. Who's won?

Interesting perspective, John. Yet it seems that if the JFK assassination was a far-right militant plot, it was extremely odd in the history of revolution and coup d'etat, because in this case the militants refused to be identified.

Rather than stand up and claim victory over a corrupt tyrant, as any normal revolutionary would have done, these assassination plotters set out a 'patsy' to take the heat, and then slid into the shadows, violently opposing anybody who might identify them.

So, it appears that a proper coup d'etat was not their original purpose. I can only surmise that their original purpose was to shock the USA into invading and occupying Cuba, once the patsy was identified as a commnunist and an officer of the FPCC (Fair Play for Cuba Committee).

When the American people didn't take the bait, the US Government was put on the spot -- they must either play along with the plot and propose an invasion of Cuba (and risk World War Three), or they must identify the perpetrators and risk a Civil War (and so risk World War Three in this way). There was a third alternative - blame everything on the patsy and his mother. By my theory, they took the third alternative.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Thanks for running that down Tom...

I'm still interested in the Jack Martin who filmed Walker and Oswald before the assassination, as that seems to be too much of a coincidence for me.

I'm 100% with you on this, Bill. Frank Sturgis sent letters to Congress attempting to demonstrate that Oswald, the killer of JFK, was a communist and that therefore the USA should immediately invade Cuba.

There was a well-documented right-wing movement to push the USA into a Cuban invasion. The killing of JFK was the central event of the plan which was calculated to enrage the American people and set them in motion.

But the Americans tended to be convinced that the right-wing was behind the JFK assassination.

J. Edgar Hoover was a likely advocate of invading Cuba -- so why didn't he jump on the bandwagon, insofar as he portrayed Oswald as a communist? Hoover insisted that some evidence about Lee Harvey Oswald must be withheld from the American people. At the same time, he refused to call the JFK assassination a communist plot. But how could he be sure? It seems to me that the information Hoover withheld was proof that Oswald was not a 'Lone Gunman'; and that this was not a communist plot; or he would have said so.

If not a communist plot; and not a 'Lone Gunman', then it was a right-wing plot, and Hoover withheld precisely that evidence.

As Jack Ruby tried to tell Earl Warren, the JBS and General Walker sit at the center of this right-wing plot. But Earl Warren responded as though Jack Ruby was speaking nonsense.

My theory is: connecting General Walker with Lee Harvey Oswald is the key to the resolution of the JFK assassination. Not nearly enough research has been conducted on this. Walker openly lied to the Warren Commission, and we have documented proof in the Mary Ferrell archives.

It also seems to me that in the Warren Commission testimony, whenever the topic turned to a possible right-wing plot, the testimony was halted and the principals went off the record for a few minutes, before resuming again.

This film by this "fourth" Jack Martin who visually connects Walker and Oswald was making a historical statement. Did he plan to send it to Congress along with the Frank Sturgis testimony? WHO WAS THIS JACK MARTIN AND WHAT DID HE KNOW?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo, MA

Daniel, I read a rumor once that Georgia University library had a FILM showing David Ferrie and Lee Oswald as an adult at the Lake Pontchartrain mercenary training camp for Cuban Exiles in Louisiana, during the summer of 1963. Have you heard of this? Have ever seen any hint or frame of it?

Thanks,

--Paul

I believe that an asst. House Select Committee Counsel under Dick Sprague saw the film and he said it was found at Georgetown University library but has since disappeared.

Did anybody answer the question about the Jack Martin who filmed Oswald handing out the leaflets in New Orleans?

Who was he and what became of his film?

If so, I missed it.

BK

JFKcountercoup

Bill, my source for this interesting item is Martin Shackelford's 1996 listing of films with Lee Harvey Oswald as the subject. Here is an excerpt from that listing. I include not only the "Jack Martin Film" but also the "James Doyle Film" to show that they are not the same film:

<snip>

THE NEW ORLEANS FILMS (by Martin Shackelford):

Oswald's activities in New Orleans attracted the attention of both tourists and a professional cameraman.

2a. The Jack Martin Film (8-9-63) In another of those aforementioned ironic twists, a tourist named Jack Martin was in Dallas in August 1963. His film records his view from the airplane. Next, he visits General Edwin Walker, under whom he had served, allegedly target of an assassination attempt by Lee Oswald in April of that year. The film documents the scene of that attempt: the window through which the shot was fired, the bullet hole, and the wall from behind which it was most likely fired, ending with shots of Walker's flag and mailbox, and a nearby building under construction (allegedly also photographed by Oswald prior to the attempt!) .

Then we see the entrance to a movie theater, cypress trees, a seal at the edge of a pool,and the statue of Andrew Jackson in Lafayette Park in New Orleans. Aroused by a commotion on Canal Street, Martin crossed to see what was happening, and began filming. We see Lee Oswald, leaflets in hand,standing on the sidewalk, being harangued by anti-Castro militants including Carlos Bringuier. Four police officers are seen arriving. The film ends with a view of the yellow leaflets scattered on the sidewalk after Bringuier knocked them out of Oswald's hands, and a brief aerial view of a subdivision. Parts of the film have only been used, to my knowledge, on the French television documentary, "Le Mystere Kennedy." The documentary is available on video, and frames from the film as well, from The Collector's Archives. A still from this film was finally published in Robert Groden's 1995 book, "The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald," an essential photo archive on Oswald.

2b. The James Doyle Film (8-9-63) James Doyle was a 16 year old teenager, visiting New Orleans with his family in early August 1963. His film begins in Lafayette Park, New Orleans, and includes a view of the Andrew Jackson statue. He, too, then noticed a commotion along Canal Street, crossed over to investigate, and began filming. Lee Oswald, back to the camera, is talking with Carlos Bringuier, when a police officer arrives, pushes Bringuier aside, and talks with Oswald, who gestures. Oswald is then seen through the crowd, under arrest, obscured, moving to the left, and we see him and the officer at curb side. The film ends with harbor views. To my knowledge, this film has only appeared in one television program, the British "Dispatches: The Day the Dream Died," available (as are frames) from The Collector's Archives or from All That Video (405 Hopkins Court,North Wales PA 19434, phone (213) 361-1365.) A still from this film was also first published in the 1995 Groden book.

<snip>

So, obviously, I want to get hold of (2a) as described by Martin Shackelford above. I myself cannot easily conform myself to the idea that this is not the same Jack Martin that worked for Guy Banister (who, along with General Edwin Walker, was an officer of the Minutemen organization, as well as the JBS).

By showing the shot-up house of General Walker immediately before showing Lee Harvey Oswald posing as an FPCC officer -- that can hardly be a coincidence. It seems that this 'tourist' Jack Martin was attempting to make a direct, visual connection between Walker and Oswald.

Also, this corresponds with the account of Ron Lewis in his book, FLASHBACK: THE UNTOLD STORY OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD (1993), that the Walker shooting was precisely the crime that Banister held over Oswald's head all throughout the summer of 1963.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo, MA

I believe the now well known photo only surfaced long after Ferrie's death, and was not in Ferrie's possession. There seem to have been other photos that were destroyed.

The known existing photo was publicized in the PBS TV series "Frontline" in an episode profiling Oswald in 1993.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/oswald/glimpse/ferrie.html

Daniel, I read a rumor once that Georgia University library had a FILM showing David Ferrie and Lee Oswald as an adult at the Lake Pontchartrain mercenary training camp for Cuban Exiles in Louisiana, during the summer of 1963. Have you heard of this? Have ever seen any hint or frame of it?

Thanks,

--Paul

I find it interesting to read as follows:

"Martin stated that has visited in the home of David Ferrie and he saw a group of photographs of various Civil Air Patrol cadet groups and in this group he is sure he saw several years ago a photograph of Lee Oswald as a member of one of the classes."

because, IIRC, Oswald is on the periphery of that photo - so, IMHO, for Martin to have noticed him means he was already familiar, that Oswald was notable for other reasons, a topic of conversation, a subject for Banister, who knows - but otherwise I don't think he would recall the presence of a young kid standing innocuously to the side.

as for Martin's lack of reliability, this is an old CIA/Mafia myth; since when did these people recruit from the Boy Scouts? They were both full of sociopaths and crooks and liars of assorted political colors. Another case for deniability.

Good point about Martin's familiarity with Oswald, Allen. Jim Garrison's famous court case against Clay Shaw had its start from the initial information he got from Jack Martin. Garrison gives Martin most of the credit for his case, in fact, in his book, ON THE TRAIL OF THE ASSASSINS (1988), although he'd given Martin his word that he would not divulge that fact until after Martin had died. Garrison found Martin to be stunningly correct on just about everything concerning Oswald, Ferrie, Banister and Shaw.

As for the CIA modus operandi of its contract agents, our own late member, Gerry Patrick Hemming agreed with your opinion that the more sordid the agents, the more plausible the deniability.

BTW, Allen, have you seen the Jack Martin Film that Martin Shackelford described back in the '90's? I'm very keen to buy a copy.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo