Robert Prudhomme

Cliff

A .22 has a range of 100 metres, but good luck hitting a moving target in the head at that range. Name the make and model of weapon Black Dog man was using, the muzzle velocity, and tell me what became of the projectile.

The throat wound was also described by some Parkland doctors as being as small as 3 mm. Many of these doctors also stated the wound could be one of exit OR entrance. I seriously doubt any of them thought it through enough to comprehend the wound could have been made by a fragment smaller than a 6.5 mm bullet.

Jerrol Custer also told the ARRB that most of the organs had been removed from JFK before he was allowed to x-ray JFK's chest. THAT is why no bullet fragments showed up on x-ray. Do you know what a tension pneumothorax is? Do you know the signs and symptoms of a tension pneumothorax, and the proscribed procedure for relieving a tension pneumothorax?

P.S.

I don't particularly give a rat's a$$ what you can or cannot stand.

Holy crap! I can cut and paste FINALLY!! And all I did was use Google Chrome instead of Outlook Express.

Hi Cliff

Which x-ray of JFK's neck showed the fracture of the transverse process of thoracic vertebra T1? According to the x-ray technician at Bethesda that night, Jerrol Custer, the x-ray he took of JFK's neck showed a lot of other things, including minute metal fragments, and has mysteriously gone missing.

Hello Jon

I believe the first thing we must do, when attempting to analyze the JFK murder case, is to separate facts from assumptions. Due to the massive indoctrination we have suffered, for the last 50 years, at the hands of WC promoters, it is a commonly held belief that JFK suffered his throat wound while behind the Stemmons sign, and that he can be seen "clutching" his throat in the Z film.

However, the available evidence shows us his hands were balled into fists, and merely raised to the level of his throat. We also have Nellie Connally, who was looking right at JFK at this time, and who clearly stated there was no blood to be seen on JFK anywhere. Do you really think a rifle shot that tore up the right side of JFK's trachea is not going to bleed profusely?

In short, there is no evidence to support the belief that JFK had a throat wound prior to the explosive head shots.

Hi Cliff

I look at both the back wound and the throat wound in the same light, and, due to my knowledge and experience with firearms and ballistics, I am highly skeptical of any explanation of either wound that involves low velocity projectiles that barely penetrated JFK's body; especially any explanation that involves a projectile, carrying a paralyzing toxin, entering JFK's throat that simply "dissolved" before they reached Parkland Hospital.

The first problem I have with these kinds of projectiles is, WHY would anyone use such a weapon, if all it did was paralyze JFK? Mankind has been using good old fashioned high speed lead projectiles for over a century to kill each other, and it is a tried and true AND accepted method. What if one of these poison darts had missed JFK, and been found in the street by an onlooker? They had enough trouble dealing with the lead bullet that Tague was grazed by.

A projectile going so ridiculously slow that it would only penetrate flesh an inch would be so inaccurate, the person delivering it would have to be almost right on top of JFK in order to hit him.

I believe the bullets that struck JFK in the back and the head were an early design of a lethal hollow point frangible bullet, such as the product sold at this web site:

www.drtammo.com

I would recommend that you go to the Technology page of this website, and study the info there very closely. This type of bullet will make a small entrance wound through a skull bone, or someone's back. Once it is travelling through soft tissue, it will go no more than two inches, before disintegrating into the metal powder it was made from.

The bullet that entered the top of JFK's right lung disintegrated, and stayed in his right lung; eventually inducing a tension pneumothorax in the right lung that was observed and treated by Parkland surgeons.

The throat wound was caused by the disintegration of one of two frangible bullets that entered JFK's skull. While the frangible bullet that caused the large blowout in the back of JFK's skull entered his right temple, the frangible bullet that caused the throat wound entered the lower right back of JFK's skull, just to the right of his external occipital protuberance. When the small pellet in the nose of this frangible bullet broke up, a fragment went through the base of JFK's skull and exited at his throat.

Hi David

I have never seen this diagram before. Where is it from, and who made it? I'm quite fascinated by what it shows of the back wound, as it almost precisely mirrors what my research has uncovered, although I believe the bullet track was closer to the top of the right lung. Please show me more.

Hi Cliff

You said this belonged in its own thread, so here it is.

If the bullet entered JFK's back at the level of thoracic vertebra T3, what became of the bullet?

Cliff

I agree with you that the back wound was at the level of thoracic vertebra T3.

The very important question is, what became of this bullet?

I wouldn't exactly say McNumbnuts has JFK Facts "under his wing". If I was a friend of his, I would be embarrassed for him if I was to read the things he posts there.

James and Chris

The breakdown you gentlemen have shown of what different groups of witnesses in different locations in Dealey Plaza heard during the assassination brings to light precisely what I have been attempting to say all along. I believe it is quite clear that a combination of suppressed and unsuppressed rifles was used by shooters in different locations, in order that each group of witnesses would hear something different than the next group. The confusion these conflicting eyewitness accounts generated has persisted for 51 years.

I only wish the members of this forum were wealthy enough to erect a mockup of Dealey Plaza in the desert somewhere, and we could hire a group of shooters to re-enact the assassination; crowd noise, motorcycles and all. I would dearly love to be standing on the sidewalk in front of the TSBD and learn for myself if it is possible to hear a bullet from a suppressed rifle in the Dal-Tex Building pass by, above the background noises.

Sometimes, when you're a manager and you want to get rid of dead weight, any excuse will do, Len.

That's the spirit, Robert, and a Merry Christmas to you, too, and to everyone here at the Ed Forum!! (regardless of which side of the argument you are on )

Hi Robert

I'm sorry to read that you are no longer going to be posting. While you and I do not always see eye to eye on the finer points, I think the two of us, plus Chris who I do not always understand, pretty much agree the assassination took place much further down Elm St., and in a much shorter space, than the WC wants us to believe. The reason for them wanting us to believe their version is obvious; the event had to be lengthened out in order to give one gunman the ability to effectively load and fire a bolt action rifle 3 times.

How would it work if you tried posting material this way; post the truth as you see it, and not demand the other members immediately see the wisdom of your arguments? If you have read any of my threads at the DPF, you will know that I have many ideas and theories regarding the assassination that, like yours, do not always go along with conventional interpretations of the assassination. It is frustrating to not have people see things your way, but demanding they do so does not help.

Interesting to read Jack Franzen's report to the FBI, from 24/11/63:

"He noticed the men, who were presumed to be Secret Service Agents, riding in the car directly behind the President's car, unloading from the car, some with firearms in their hands, and noticed police officers and these plainclothesmen [sic] running up the grassy slope across Elm St. from his location and toward a wooded and bushy area across Elm St. from him."

Interesting observation. Any other witness see this?

Robert

I, for one, am very interested in seeing statements and testimony from other witnesses that would place the first audible shot further down Elm St. I have long maintained there is something wrong with the official story.

Does anyone, besides me, receive PM's from Gary Mack?

Call me stupid but, this is a Catholic University, the Roman Catholic Church is openly against gay marriage, and McAdams was suspended for criticizing a professor defending gay marriage.

A wink and a nod and this whole thing will be swept under the carpet in time for classes to begin in 2015.

Glad it makes sense to you, Pat; still sounds like rape to me.

Sonic boom = "firecracker"

Bullets are not jet planes, and the sonic boom made by a suppressed bullet is not going to rattle windows.

So, you think someone is going to be on the Grassy Knoll and take a shot at JFK at z189 with a weapon possessing such a low muzzle velocity, the projectile barely makes it into his throat. Are you aware of the inherent inaccuracy of such a weapon?

And what is the point of introducing a paralyzing toxin into JFK before shooting him? What if this "dart" or whatever it is you have dreamed up missed JFK and landed on the grass on the South side of Elm or, worse, stuck itself in a tree. You don't think that might not look a bit suspicious?

If you had a clear shot, a bullet would be far simpler.

Robert

The weapon used for your silent shot from the Knoll at z189 is VERY important. A supersonic weapon, compressed air or gunpowder driven and suppressed, will send a bullet that will deliver an unmistakeable sonic boom. A subsonic weapon, compressed air or gunpowder driven and suppressed, will deliver a silent bullet, but will lack the accuracy for this range.

You can't have it both ways, and I don't believe rocket propelled flechettes were used.

Robert

The problem with making an air rifle completely silent is the same problem one faces making a conventional rifle silent. The only advantage is that the air rifle has a head start, as it has no muzzle blast.

It is possible to completely silence a conventional weapon, IF it has a muzzle velocity lower than the speed of sound, or about 1025 fps. However, should the bullet be going faster than the speed of sound, the bullet will break the sound barrier, and a small sonic boom will be heard as the bullet passes by.

The same holds true for an air or compressed gas rifle. If the projectile fired by this weapon is faster than the speed of sound, no muzzle blast will be heard, but the crack of the bullet breaking the sound barrier will definitely be audible.

I think most of you know my feelings about the accuracy of subsonic weapons but, I will reiterate. Muzzle velocities lower than 1000 fps are what are encountered in pistols and .22 rimfire rifles, and neither of these are considered to be overly accurate at any extended ranges. The 6.5mm Carcano short rifle, considered to be a medium powered rifle, had a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps. I've been to Dealey Plaza, and it is a lot further than 50 feet from where you imagine the shooter to be to the limo's position at z189.

Robert

Just to make sure we are communicating correctly, do you believe there was a silent shot, hitting JFK in the throat, from the Grassy Knoll at z189, delivered by a compressed gas weapon?

James

The throat wound is indeed an enigma. Lately, I have been leaning toward a fragment from one of the bullets that entered JFK's skull, the one from the rear, specifically, that penetrated the base of JFK's skull. Next week, I'll likely be back to another explanation.

James

You have to admit, though, it is slightly more believable than the rocket propelled, dissolved-by-blood, poisoned flechettes that Greg Burnham was always going on about.