Robert Prudhomme

Pat

You are completely mistaken about the Parkland doctors. If one reads their medical reports in Appendix VIII of the WCR, all written within hours of the assassination, it is quite clear that the majority of the doctors who describe the large head wound in any detail refer to it as involving the occipital bone or being in the right rear of the skull.

Dr. Charles Crenshaw, Parkland surgeon and part of the ER team attempting to save JFK:

"The head wound was difficult to see when he was laying on the back of his head. However, afterwards when they moved his face towards the left, one could see the large, right rear, parietal, occipital, blasted out hole, the size of my fist, which is 2 and a half inches in diameter. The brain, cerebral portion had been flurred out and also there was the cerebellum hanging out from that wound. It was clearly an exit wound from the right rear, behind the ear. A right occipital area hole, the size of my fist."

If the large head wound had actually been where the WCR claimed, it would have been instantly visible to Parkland physicians. Would they have made the same level of attempt at resuscitating JFK if they knew the full extent of the head wound at the beginning?

And where would I find that, John?

He would lose his job if he agreed with you, Al.

My mistake, it is only the last page I cannot access; page 35.

I keep attempting to open "Secret Service Agents Response" but I get directed to the website index page. I seem to be able to view every other thread. Has Robert Mady's thread been closed again?

That would be a shame, as I was hoping to open up a dialogue with a new member as to what constituted an "audible" shot.

David

In this film clip, I wonder who is standing directly in front of Prayer Man? Could that be Lovelady?

Also, Ian, it is important all of us understand and agree upon the word "audible".

I study the faces of the onlookers in the Altgens 6 photo, reputedly taken at the same time as frame z255 in the Zapruder film, and cannot believe a 6.5mm short rifle has been fired six storeys above and slightly behind these people 2-3 seconds before this picture was taken.

It should be remembered that the 6.5mm M91/38 short rifle, with its 21 inch barrel, is a shortened version of the M91 long rifle that possesses a 31 inch barrel. However, the same cartridge is used in both rifles, and the muzzle blast is louder in the short rifle, due to gunpowder burning outside of the barrel. The same problem was encountered with the .303 Lee Enfield. A "jungle carbine" version was made of this rifle, by shortening the barrel, and it was found necessary to fit this shortened barrel with a flash eliminator, as the muzzle flash was quite extreme.

When exposed to 150+ decibel level noises, people experience involuntary startle reactions. EVERY SINGLE PERSON seen in Altgens 6 should be displaying signs of being startled, as these startle reactions are not only involuntary but instantaneous, as well. The only people showing any reaction at all, outside of JFK and Connally, are the two Secret Service agents on the starboard side of the Queen Mary, and for good reason.

If JFK has already been shot by a rifle at z255, it was likely a rifle behind him that was equipped with a suppressor (silencer). I place silencer in brackets, as it is misleading to call these things silencers. While they will completely silence the muzzle blast of a rifle, thus masking the origin of a shot, they cannot mask the sound of a supersonic bullet breaking the sound barrier. This means that any rifle with a muzzle velocity higher than 1025 fps, and this includes most rifles of any appreciable calibre, cannot be completely silenced.

The reason we only see Connally, JFK and the two SS agents reacting is that they are the only ones near the path of the bullet. As the bullet was far smaller than a jet plane breaking the sound barrier, its sonic boom would only be a few orders of magnitude higher than the crack of a bull whip, and its zone of influence might or might not extend to the onlookers on the sidewalks, depending on how much the sound was mingled with and masked by the sound of the crowd and the motorcycles. If some of these bystanders did hear this suppressed shot, it obviously did not produce sound at an extreme decibel level, high enough to invoke the expected and instantaneous startle reaction.

For all of the above reasons, I believe the origin of the first shot was the large laundry delivery van parked at the corner of Elm and Houston St, with its nose facing down Elm St. There is a perimeter railing around the top of this van, and the roof is piled high with laundry bags. What better place to locate a sniper with a suppressed rifle that would not give away his position? Granted, it would have been a very tight shot, with the Queen Mary in the way, and the only window might have been immediately after the limo had turned the corner. A better location would have been the second storey window of the Dal-Tex Building, as it would have placed the shooter further to the right rear of the limo and made for a bigger window. The point I'm trying to make here is that if the shot was made from any higher up, and it was suppressed, we likely wouldn't be seeing the same reaction from the two SS agents.

Once again, how do you define "audible"?

In 51 years, I don't believe anyone has managed to get Frazier to admit there even was someone in the corner occupied by Prayer Man, despite the fact the tall, gangly Frazier appears to be looking directly at him in the still capture from the film.

As you say, Don, this could be explained by Frazier being fearful of retribution, should he go against the official story. The thing that fascinates me is that, in his appearance before the WC, he could not recall the helmeted Baker going into the TSBD with Truly. This is amazing as, judging by the position of Frazier and Prayer Man in the film, Baker must have come very close to running the two of them over.

Pat

Thanks for sharing where you believe the wounds were, as I believe this is the first time I have seen you state your beliefs.

Do you believe this tangential wound to begin in the region of the right temple?

Billy Lovelady's statement to the DPD, like Bill Shelley's, does not mention the two of them staying put on the steps of the TSBD for 3-4 minutes following the assassination, nor, like Shelley's, does it mention their walk to the rail yard, and their re-entry into the TSBD via a rear door.

Once again, I believe their WC testimony to be fabrication, and that they were put up to these lies by persons wishing to discredit Victoria Adams' testimony.

If you believe there were two shots that hit JFK's head, do you believe one entered near the EOP? Where do you believe the other shot entered?

Pat, what colour is the sky in your world?

Dr. Kemp Clark, in his medical report (WCR Appendix VIII), stated that the head wound was in the occipital region of JFK's skull, and involved occipital and parietal bones.

Why can we not see this wound in the back of head photo?

Dr. Clark also reported cerebral and cerebellar tissue protruding from the head wound. As the cerebellum is a small section of the brain, found in the lower rear of the skull, how could it be protruding from the wound of the large gaping wound was NOT in the occipital region?

I'm trying, Bob; God knows I am.

Robert

Is there a point you are trying to make here?

Where would you describe the front of your head to be, Pat?

You not only argue on the same side as David Von Pein, you sound just like him.

Oh, sorry, am I bringing up a sensitive topic again?

Robert

The burning question is, how long after the assassination were these stills of Lovelady at the front steps of the TSBD shot?

Let me guess.

1. He was confused about the location of the back of JFK's head, as JFK was lying down.

2. He was not a qualified medical expert, and could not determine where the back of the head was.

3. He misremembered the location of the wound.

4. He was seeking 15 minutes of fame.

5. He was seeking to get rich quick from the notoriety.

6. All of the above.

Pat

And how would you go about dismissing Clint Hill's WC testimony, in which he describes a large gaping wound in the right rear of JFK's head?

Chris

Thanks for that link. Unfortunately, it mentions nothing about the timelines of the Martin/Hughes films, and at what precise time they captured Lovelady on film in front of the TSBD.

Actually, any photo of Lovelady at the front steps of the TSBD taken any time after Baker entered the building pretty much puts the lie to Lovelady's WC testimony.

Thanks Chris. I don't suppose you have any idea how long after the assassination the segment showing Lovelady in front of the TSBD was taken, do you?

For that to be Shelley and Lovelady in the Couch film, heading down the Elm St. extension as Baker runs into the TSBD, they would have had to leave the steps almost at the time of the last shot, in order to be so far away from the steps at the time of Baker's arrival. How could either one of them testify 3-4 minutes elapsed prior to Gloria Calvary's arrival with the news of the assassination? Also, they do not mention leaving the steps before Gloria's arrival but give every indication they were on the steps when she arrived with the news. Lovelady also testified to asking Calvary for more details of the assassination, something that would be difficult to do if someone was running away from you, and something that would also consume more time; a precious commodity at this point considering the split second timing needed to place Baker on the 2nd floor at the same time as the assassin.

Then, we arrive back at the Martin and Hughes film clearly showing Lovelady in front of the TSBD 8-15 minutes after the assassination, as claimed by Groden. Lovelady, according to his testimony, should be inside of the locked down TSBD at this point, having re-entered the building from the rear after his trip to the rail yard, and cannot be at the foot of the front steps of the TSBD; open checkered shirt or no open checkered shirt.

I believe we have caught Mr. Lovelady out in a lie here, and I also believe Lovelady was put up to this lie by persons with a need to discredit Victoria Adams' testimony about her and Sandra Styles descending the back stairs of the TSBD immediately after the last shot was fired. Adams was the fly in the ointment, and her not seeing Oswald descending the back stairs or, for that matter, Baker and Truly ascending the back stairs, had the potential to exonerate Oswald and destroy the entire lone nut story. It was absolutely vital to discredit Adams by attempting to show she had stayed on the 4th floor for a minimum of 4-5 minutes; long enough for Oswald to make his way down to the 1st floor, and for Baker and Truly to make their way up to the 6th floor.

As I said before, if the time of the scenes showing Lovelady out in front of the TSBD in the Martin and Hughes film can be verified, I think we have a very good case that Lovelady stayed on the front steps of the TSBD.

"Mr. Ball - Who did you see in the first floor?

Mr. Lovelady - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie."

P.S.

Who looks more like Lovelady, the fellow in the Couch film, or the fellow in the checkered shirt seen in the Martin and Hughes films?