Robert Prudhomme

...whether it takes more resources to deal with a wounded soldier than a dead one, it is hard to say.

Not hard to say….

I don't believe that there is anything "designed" to be "more humanitarian" when it comes to war. For illustration purposes: Do you know what happens when a SABOT APFSDS-T penetrates an armored vehicle that is buttoned up? It creates a vacuum and everything (not nailed down) including the crew is sucked back through the hole created by the round. How "humanitarian" is that? What's it feel like to get sucked through a hole?

FMJ bullets are military rounds not hunting or target rounds. The desire to create casualties requiring the attention of many personnel and consuming resources is a tactic as old as warfare itself. A death, although a still desirable outcome, requires much less.

To David Josephs:

You are preaching to the choir here but irregardless of the source of CE399, it does in fact exist. What's obvious in this thread is that, so far, we all agree it's purported route as theorized by Specter is clearly impossible. CE399 is the keystone of the LN theory, without it everything else falls to the wayside and all that remains is a conspiracy.

Where did it come from? It was dug out of a sand barrel used to clear weapons at a range -that's why it's a "pristine" spent round.

Yes, it does seem odd that the same rules of war that insist a bullet be an FMJ, as opposed to a soft tipped or hollow point, allow artillery and mortar rounds to spread great chunks of shrapnel which make far more horrible wounds than any soft tipped bullet ever did.

Quote from David Josephs:

"Are we also aware that the WCR tells us in order for fragments to have been left in JC at all, these fragments could ONLY come from the rear of the bullet..... which in turn means it would have to come in contact (the rear of the bullet) with these surfaces to have left anything... "

This is not actually a fair statement, Dave. Full metal jacket bullets are designed to wound and not necessarily kill. Whether this is for humanitarian reasons or whether it takes more resources to deal with a wounded soldier than a dead one, it is hard to say.

Nevertheless, FMJ bullets are designed to resist expanding or coming apart and, thus, causing great grievous wounds. One of the features that make this possible is the hard copper nose, as opposed to a soft lead nose, that prevents the FMJ bullet tip from expanding as it travels through flesh. Another feature is the open base of the FMJ bullet that exposes the lead core.

Think of an FMJ bullet as a tube of toothpaste, with the soft malleable lead core being the paste. As FMJ bullets travel through flesh and begin to flatten and deform, the space inside of the jacket begins to get smaller. The lead "paste" inside the jacket, being incompressible, needs somewhere to go or pressures inside the jacket will elevate until the jacket ruptures and the bullet comes apart, making a very large mess. If the jacket completely encapsulated the lead core, FMJ bullets would come apart completely when shot into people. The open base of the jacket acts a "pressure relief valve". Instead of internal pressures elevating, lead is squeezed out the base and shed in flakes behind the bullet. Several of these flakes can be seen in x-rays of JBC's wrist.

The bigger question to me is how the bullet hit the radius bone of JBC's right wrist square on when it is physically impossible for a man to turn his forearm back to this position, if we are to entertain that the Magic Bullet exited JBC's chest where it did.

Even more puzzling is, how did the Magic Bullet hit the back side of JBC's radius bone in his right forearm square on, not penetrate the radius bone, and still somehow manage to pass between the radius and ulna bone? The bullet had to have come to a complete stop and fallen from JBC's wrist; there is no other possibility.

More LN'rs need to volunteer to sit in the Kennedy car while someone tries to prove their theory "correct".

Blair,

That'd make a great interactive Disney Ride. If I ever win the big one, I'll build a set with the TSBD, the overpass and the knoll in Orlando; run a limo past it on a rail and let the kiddies see if they can hit a LNer sitting in the JFK seat just once from the window. -For a chance to win an Uncle Cornpone doll, of course.

Robert,

P.S. If JBC never let go of his Stetson, and CE 399 exited the palm side of his right wrist and went on to end up in his left thigh, shouldn't there be a bullet hole through the Stetson? It definitely would appear to be in the path of the bullet.

That's very insightful! Where is the Stetson? I've never seen an evidence picture of it and, although it's been included in the debate many times, you're the first person that I know of that has pointed out it must have been damaged. Is it possible that the fibers purportedly found in the wound came from it and not the "Mohair" suit?

One more thing about 399:

If one shot missed and subsequently it's ricochet wounded Tague...

and 399 caused all the wounds other than the headshot...

How does the Limo get the obvious impact damage above the visor that seems to be caused by a whole bullet (the impact point being too "round and deep" to have been a fragment)?

The cartoons made by the Lame Nuts tend to show the Stetson being held, by its brim, in the very tips of JBC's fingers and thumbs. This conveniently places the Stetson well out of the way of the path of CE 399 on its way from JBC's right wrist to his left thigh. I believe this to be pure imagination on the LN part as, having known a few cowboys in my time, I know it is customary to hold a Stetson in one's lap by the crown, as holding it by the brim will let its weight bend the brim and ruin the hat. Of course, though, if JBC had held his Stetson by the crown, there would have been a bullet hole through it.

Two questions:

Does anyone know what became of JBC's Stetson?

Has anyone analyzed the Zapruder film carefully enough to determine how JBC was holding his Stetson?

Suffice it to say, I do not believe that Oswald, who there is no proof had sniper training, or ever owned another rifle with a scope or, for that matter, there is any evidence he had more than minimal experience hunting, could have sighted in the Model 38/91 Carcano with the side mounted scope.

Thank you Robert and I agree 100%.

Regardless of the bravado I hear from my Marine brothers, being a Marine does not make one an expert shot. They are a cross section of society and possess all kinds of different proficiencies with weapons just as I observed in the Army. I'd also like to point out that in peacetime, most services and military specialties only require annual qualification with the soldiers personal weapon. Although I had grown up in a family of hunters and sportsmen, I had never fired a handgun until I joined the service and as a tanker my personal weapon was .45 which I qualified as "expert" in Basic the very first time I fired it. That particular qualification was the "Official" qualification that determined what badge I wore on my uniform for the rest of my military career whether subsequent qualifications were "expert" or not.

I have no idea what Oswald's personal weapon was as a radar operator. Does anyone know?

I'll bet you a dollar (US of course, ours is only worth 95 cents) Oswald's personal weapon was not a bolt action rifle with a side mounted scope.

Vince,

The very first image posted in that article (showing the the SS photoshopped onto the Limo) should be enough evidence to ANYONE who has ever fired a rifle at a moving target that the "Lone Nut" theory is impossible.

Reasoning:

Imagine using the iron sights and ignoring the side mounted scope… the target (Kennedy's head) is incredibly small moving downward and away and probably has some unpredictable lateral movement… the head shot is, for all intents, impossible.

Oh, he used the side mounted scope, you say?

Here's the reason why that's even more unlikely... scopes are NOT normally side mounted…. If side mounted, the scope and the barrel can only be "zeroed" to one fixed point at one pre-determined distance.

Why is that?

Draw two lines, each extending from the scope and the barrel to infinity. They will cross at only one place (and only if you've spent HOURS at the range preparing). This is the "zero" point. At no other distance will they cross, hence at no other distance will the gun hit the target in the crosshairs at the aim point.

In 1963 there was no way to determine the targets exact range from the shooter, so there's no way to know when to fire. Add crosswind, lead, the downward slope, which all affect trajectory and you've created an impossibility.

If they had found a Springfield '03 with a top mounted scope, the mainstay of Marine Sniper's, my argument would be very weak. The Carcano, as configured, was a stupid weapon to use as a "plant".

Hello Chris

FINALLY!!!! I have come across another person on these JFK forums, beside myself, who understands the difficulty of side mounting a scope onto a rifle. You are bang on! If the scope's line of sight is offset from the barrel's line of sight, the line of sight and the path of the bullet will ONLY cross at one point in space, unlike a scope mounted directly over a barrel.

Another thing no one seems to appreciate, and with which I have personal experience, is just how insane a venture sighting in a side mounted scope at a range can be. Years ago, a friend of mine decided he just had to have a scope on his Winchester Model 94 .30-.30 lever action rifle. Why he wanted to put a scope on such a handy little bush rifle was beyond my grasp but, he was set in his ways and, being a friend, I had no choice but to help him out. Of course, as the Model 94 ejects its empty shells upwards, a scope cannot be mounted in the typical fashion and he had to have the gunsmith mount it on the left side of the chamber.

We literally spent hours sighting that stupid thing in (most of it spent waiting for the light barrel to cool down between shooting groups of three bullets) and at least two or three boxes of cartridges trying to get that rifle to hit a bullseye at 100 yards. Every adjustment we made seemed to be either too much or too little. Of course, it did not help that the Model 94 is a very light rifle and really likes to kick and jump up when you shoot it.

Suffice it to say, I do not believe that Oswald, who there is no proof had sniper training, or ever owned another rifle with a scope or, for that matter, there is any evidence he had more than minimal experience hunting, could have sighted in the Model 38/91 Carcano with the side mounted scope.

.

Perhaps Raymond should review Commission Exhibit No. 1820 again:

"MARINA states that in reflection, now she believes this to be strange, because OSWALD had always been most frugal and did not allow her to spend hardly any money." -- Via CE1820; An FBI interview with Marina Oswald, in the Russian language, on January 15, 1964

Hello Dave

I see you have quoted CE 1820 as though it were the Gospel straight from the Bible.

CE 1820 is an FBI interview supposedly conducted with Marina Oswald. However, since it is written in the third person, as are most FBI interviews, and not signed by the interviewee, what evidence do you have that this is an accurate account of what Marina Oswald stated?

Further, without a signature, what evidence do you have that Marina was allowed to read the contents of CE 1820, and allowed to approve or disapprove its contents?

And further, what evidence do you have that proves this interview actually took place, and that CE 1820 is not merely a work of fiction from the FBI?

Bump

Any chance this topic could be pinned to the start page please?

Seems sad to have it buried underneath two pages of "No chance of new investigation in Kennedy case" "Kennedy Curse dooming it's members" and "We will never know what happened".

Thanks!

Great idea, Frankie. With 95,000 views and over 1200 replies, I think this thread has more than earned that status.

Robert,

The "tumbling" aspect should prove the SBT impossible in of itself.

Consider this: If Dr. Gregory were correct and 399 was in fact tumbling when it entered the wrist, thereby allowing the fragments found to be left behind (which is the whole point of suggesting it entered backward), then it would have continued to tumble destroying the entire wrist and causing massive damage.

Dr. Gregory was examining 399 when he offered the supposition that the ONLY way the bullet could have remained pristine and deposited fragments was the "backward entry" aspect. The condition of 399 didn't allow for any other possibility.

What Specter wasn't about to do is blow his own theory away by asking if PHYSICS would allow the trajectory to alter again from a "tumbling" to a "linear" path.

Also consider that it wasn't tumbling when it hit the thigh or those wounds would have been more serious as well.

While I agree wholeheartedly with you that the tumbling-no tumbling magical path of CE 399, as presented by Arlen Specter, is an impossibility, I do not believe it possesses the SBT debunking properties of the x-rays of JBC's right wrist and forearm. While we cannot see what the bullet did between JBC's chest and his forearm, and it can be argued by WC supporters that "bullets do strange things", the x-rays are a capture in time and offer inarguable proof of what a bullet did to JBC.

Once again, the x-rays of JBC's forearm:

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/a/a0/Thumb_hsca_ex_84.jpg

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/c/c3/Thumb_hsca_ex_85.jpg

Looking at the second set of x-rays we see, on the right, a view of the back side of JBC's right hand (thumb on right side of x-ray) and forearm with the radius bone, as always, on the thumb side of the arm. This x-ray shows us quite clearly that CE 399 (or likely a completely different bullet) struck JBC's radius bone square on at what is likely the widest and thickest section of the distal end of the radius. If CE 399 did not penetrate and pass through the radius, and no one from the WC ever claimed it did, how did CE 399 manage to still pass between the radius and the ulna? Did it back up, move over an inch, and take another run at it? If the bullet did not go all the way through, then the only logical conclusion we can draw, from what is obviously such a square on strike, is that the radius bone stopped the bullet and it should have been found on the floor of the limousine.

The second problem these x-rays present is that the back side of JBC's forearm had to be 90° to the path of CE 399 to allow CE 399 to strike the radius as we see it in the x-rays. In fact, JBC's forearm had to be in this position even to allow CE 399 to pass cleanly between the radius and the ulna. Unfortunately, the human elbow does not rotate backwards far enough to allow anything remotely close to this alignment. Try this yourself. Place your forearm before you as if you were holding a Stetson in your lap, with your wrist just below your right nipple. Now, try to rotate your forearm backwards to present the back side of your wrist to the path of a bullet exiting below your right nipple. If you are like me and 99% of the people on this planet (conservative estimate), you can't do it.

Conclusion: The SBT is a myth. CE 399 could not have done the damage shown in the x-rays and still have been able to pass through JBC's wrist. It did not happen.

P.S. If JBC never let go of his Stetson, and CE 399 exited the palm side of his right wrist and went on to end up in his left thigh, shouldn't there be a bullet hole through the Stetson? It definitely would appear to be in the path of the bullet.

As much as the WC counsels attempted to obfuscate the facts regarding JBC's wounds, in their zealous efforts to push the SBT, there are certain inarguable realities that cannot be dismissed. Chief among them is the x-ray of JBC's right forearm, wrist and hand, taken on 22/11/63, just prior to surgery.

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/9/97/Photo_hsca_ex_85.jpg

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/9/90/Photo_hsca_ex_84.jpg

Take a good look at these x-rays and I will explain later today why I feel these x-rays are capable, by themselves, of totally debunking the SBT.

Note: In the second x-ray, we are looking at the underside of JBC's right forearm. His right thumb is on the right side of the x-ray and his palm is facing towards us.

Hi Chris

So, just to be clear, was it stated by the WC that the entire bullet (CE 399) passed between the ulna and radius bones of JBC's right wrist and came to rest embedded in JBC's left thigh?

While there is much discussion about CE 399 travelling through JFK and striking JBC under the right armpit, I find there is not much discussion about just what happened to CE 399 after it exited just below JBC's right nipple.

Would anyone like to explain the path it took through JBC's right forearm, how it ended up in JBC's left thigh and how it was subsequently found intact outside of JBC's body?

Thanks, Sean. I should have done a little searching before I asked.

Robert,

Agree, but even if it had been the wrong building... Baker was simultaneously exceedingly heroic and incredibly inept. Is there any precedent for hunting a sniper armed with a rifle by charging into a building armed with a .38 (I assume a .38)? I think if he had actually found what he was looking for he would have been the first dead cop that day. I could see two cops moving methodically, covering each other and being very wary of any "glimpse" of someone moving around. What happened to "come out with your hands up" when he glimpsed Oswald through the door?

Marvin Johnson's account of what Baker told him as he gave his affidavit within hours of the assassination is suggestive of a more physical--and realistic--confrontation

I'm lost again, Sean. Who is Marvin Johnson again?

Edit: Just found his WC testimony. Detective Marvin Johnson, DPD, Homicide and Robbery

Mr Dice is obviously a LN'er. Now if he had asked if James Files had killed Jesus....

(I'm sorry I couldn't resist)

It really is an indictment of our education system which has been terrible for a long time. I took some classes at a community college on the GI Bill back in the 80's and I was surprised to learn that an entire classroom of high school graduates had no idea who Ernest Hemingway was.

Even sadder, our Canadian youth today know more about American history and politics than they do Canadian, thanks to American TV.

Robert,

Agree, but even if it had been the wrong building... Baker was simultaneously exceedingly heroic and incredibly inept. Is there any precedent for hunting a sniper armed with a rifle by charging into a building armed with a .38 (I assume a .38)? I think if he had actually found what he was looking for he would have been the first dead cop that day. I could see two cops moving methodically, covering each other and being very wary of any "glimpse" of someone moving around. What happened to "come out with your hands up" when he glimpsed Oswald through the door?

Here's a shot from the recent Kenya Mall shooting of plainclothes policemen armed with handguns hunting the shooters. I'm not saying their tactics are perfect - just more realistic:

Not only that, I wonder if he thought the man he was looking for was going to have "SNIPER" emblazoned on the back of his jacket in large letters.

We can talk all day about the height of the entrance wound made in JFK's back by CE399, but the truth of the matter is, the SBT can be debunked more easily other ways.

1) The Wrong Angle

JFK's neck is discussed as if it were nothing more than a piece of meat. In reality, the neck is mostly bones called the "cervical vertebrae". There are seven of them (C1 - C7) and they can be seen in the following diagram:

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee363/Traveller111/f4-u1_0-B978-1-4160-3285-4__10039-7__gr2.jpg

As you can see, the vertebrae have lateral projections called the "transverse processes". They are the long points sticking out either side of the vertebrae. There is not enough room between any two transverse processes on the right side of the neck for a bullet to pass between them, and this was never claimed. What WAS claimed was that Oswald's bullet missed the right transverse process of JFK's C7 vertebra but struck a glancing blow to the right transverse process of JFK's T1 vertebra. This T1 vertebra is the first vertebra below the cervical vertebrae and, as the diagram shows, is the vertebra connected to the first ribs.

This scenario might have been believable, if we had not been asked to believe this same bullet travelled through JFK's neck and also tore through the right side of JFK`s trachea (windpipe) before carrying on to JBC`s right armpit. In order for CE 399 to miss the right transverse process of the C7 vertebra PLUS strike the right side of the trachea, my measurements show CE 399 would have to be travelling through JFK's neck at a minimum angle of 26° measured from a centreline front to back through JFK. If JFK had been turned to his right 5°, as many believe he was, this might have reduced this figure to 21°.

CE 399 could not possibly have travelled through JFK at an angle of 21° and been able to strike JBC`s right armpit, regardless of how many cartoons the Lame Nuts show us of JBC sitting in the middle of the limo. And please, do not try to tell me the trachea wanders around the neck every time we turn our head to the side. Put your fingers on your windpipe and turn your head. See? The trachea retains the same vertical alignment.

2) John Connally's Rubber Elbow

Medical evidence shows that CE 399, after tumbling through the air from JFK to JBC and shattering a rib in JBC, magically regained its stability in flight and managed to put a rather neat hole between the two bones (radius and ulna) of JBC's right forearm, severely fracturing the radius in the process. What is not often discussed by the LN's is that CE 399 exited below JBC's right nipple and entered the BACK side of JBC's forearm and exited the PALM side of his forearm.

Hold your forearm at chest height in front of you with your palm facing down. In this position, the forearm bone closest to your chest is the radius and the furthest from your chest is the ulna. Now, lower your forearm to just below your right nipple and try to turn your forearm back towards yourself (back side of your forearm facing your chest) so that the space between the two bones is lined up with what would have been the path of CE 399. If you are like 99% of the people on this planet, your elbow joint simply will not allow this rotation. To even come close to this alignment is quite a strain on the elbow, and is not a natural position at all.

Now, keep in mind that it was JBC's radius that was shattered, while his ulna was untouched. Because of the misalignment with the path of the bullet, any bullet striking the back side of the radius would have done one of two things: ricochet off of the radius to some other part of the limo OR ricochet off of the radius and strike the ulna.

I was rather amused to watch the brief cartoon in the "documentary" about Donahue and his theory that SS Agent Hickey accidentally shot JFK with an AR-15. The animator neatly solves the problem above by having CE 399 enter the palm side of JBC's forearm and exit the back side of his forearm.

Just another lie from the Lame Nuts. They must be desperate.

I guess the Bobbsey Twins don't want to have a go at tearing my explanations apart.

Sean,

I think it's been pointed out before but... if you were an unarmed civilian would you follow or lead a policeman on the hunt for an assassin? ...and if you were a policeman looking for an assassin would the guy calmly standing in the break room drinking a coke arouse any suspicion? It smells like a case of CYA to me.

Chris,

I agree totally.

I also think instead of rushing into the building with Mr. Truly, it would have made more sense for Baker and a couple other policemen to try to seal off the building as soon as possible, wait for more policemen to arrive, and then do a systematic search, floor by floor.

But maybe I'm wrong.

Thoughts?

--Tommy

I wonder if it ever occurred to Baker that he might have chosen the wrong building. Much of his reasoning in choosing the TSBD stemmed from him seeing a flock of pigeons flushed up from the roof of the TSBD by the sound of a rifle shot. Did you notice he never saw any pigeons flushed off the roof of the Dal-Tex Building?

If a shot was fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD, there is a good chance the pigeons on the roof of the TSBD would never hear it, as there are two storeys of a building between the pigeons and the shooter, plus a parapet. However, a shooter on the roof of the Dal-Tex Building would be looking right at the pigeons and they would most definitely hear that shot.

Mr. Caddy, IT WAS VOMIT! They cherry picked the evidence. Terrible show. Do an honest recreation and you can't prove the magic fraud bullet. TD

Have you considered pooling resources with individuals as skeptical as yourself (I gather there are over 150 million such skeptics in this country alone) and commissioning the sort of study you feel to be necessary?

Dave

".....trolling, trolling over the ocean blue....."

The so called Babushka lady identified by her clothes filmed the murder looking directly at JFK toward the grassy knoll. The film has never surfaced and has been the subject of many allegations and investigations from the color of her shoes to the taking of her camera. [/size]

Kill JFK ! The Assassins Speak will disclose the how, why and where of the film.[/size]

Definitely looking forward to it. The Babushka Lady and her film are, as you say, the great all time mystery of the JFK assassination.

Video: Jesus was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald

Is there a point to posting this nonsense?

Duck Dynasty?

LOL

Shotgun and shells on the 6th floor??? What on earth is Ball talking about?

We can talk all day about the height of the entrance wound made in JFK's back by CE399, but the truth of the matter is, the SBT can be debunked more easily other ways.

1) The Wrong Angle

JFK's neck is discussed as if it were nothing more than a piece of meat. In reality, the neck is mostly bones called the "cervical vertebrae". There are seven of them (C1 - C7) and they can be seen in the following diagram:

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee363/Traveller111/f4-u1_0-B978-1-4160-3285-4__10039-7__gr2.jpg

As you can see, the vertebrae have lateral projections called the "transverse processes". They are the long points sticking out either side of the vertebrae. There is not enough room between any two transverse processes on the right side of the neck for a bullet to pass between them, and this was never claimed. What WAS claimed was that Oswald's bullet missed the right transverse process of JFK's C7 vertebra but struck a glancing blow to the right transverse process of JFK's T1 vertebra. This T1 vertebra is the first vertebra below the cervical vertebrae and, as the diagram shows, is the vertebra connected to the first ribs.

This scenario might have been believable, if we had not been asked to believe this same bullet travelled through JFK's neck and also tore through the right side of JFK`s trachea (windpipe) before carrying on to JBC`s right armpit. In order for CE 399 to miss the right transverse process of the C7 vertebra PLUS strike the right side of the trachea, my measurements show CE 399 would have to be travelling through JFK's neck at a minimum angle of 26° measured from a centreline front to back through JFK. If JFK had been turned to his right 5°, as many believe he was, this might have reduced this figure to 21°.

CE 399 could not possibly have travelled through JFK at an angle of 21° and been able to strike JBC`s right armpit, regardless of how many cartoons the Lame Nuts show us of JBC sitting in the middle of the limo. And please, do not try to tell me the trachea wanders around the neck every time we turn our head to the side. Put your fingers on your windpipe and turn your head. See? The trachea retains the same vertical alignment.

2) John Connally's Rubber Elbow

Medical evidence shows that CE 399, after tumbling through the air from JFK to JBC and shattering a rib in JBC, magically regained its stability in flight and managed to put a rather neat hole between the two bones (radius and ulna) of JBC's right forearm, severely fracturing the radius in the process. What is not often discussed by the LN's is that CE 399 exited below JBC's right nipple and entered the BACK side of JBC's forearm and exited the PALM side of his forearm.

Hold your forearm at chest height in front of you with your palm facing down. In this position, the forearm bone closest to your chest is the radius and the furthest from your chest is the ulna. Now, lower your forearm to just below your right nipple and try to turn your forearm back towards yourself (back side of your forearm facing your chest) so that the space between the two bones is lined up with what would have been the path of CE 399. If you are like 99% of the people on this planet, your elbow joint simply will not allow this rotation. To even come close to this alignment is quite a strain on the elbow, and is not a natural position at all.

Now, keep in mind that it was JBC's radius that was shattered, while his ulna was untouched. Because of the misalignment with the path of the bullet, any bullet striking the back side of the radius would have done one of two things: ricochet off of the radius to some other part of the limo OR ricochet off of the radius and strike the ulna.

I was rather amused to watch the brief cartoon in the "documentary" about Donahue and his theory that SS Agent Hickey accidentally shot JFK with an AR-15. The animator neatly solves the problem above by having CE 399 enter the palm side of JBC's forearm and exit the back side of his forearm.

Just another lie from the Lame Nuts. They must be desperate.

Here are Towner and Hughes around the "splices"

Hughes was more WEST than Towner so the angles are off... and we are talking about a single frame versus 6-8 from Towner. Since HUGHES does not continue to where Zapruder starts

this frame may have simply been a coincidence - that it's at exactly the same place is puzzling though.

From the work I did with Chris Davidson, the removal of those TOWNER frames create the correct starting point and ending point for Towner and Zapruder to sync.

Having watched some of Max Holland's LOST BULLET ... I found HICKEY looking at the road just after the limo makes this filmus interuptus turn..

and still believe a shot was fired prior to the Elm Tree.. we also see JFK's impossible head turn at 157...

I alos seem to remember witnesses stating they saw a spark and dust kick up off the ground at that spot as well... just as the limo passed

DJ

Incredibly, David, I have never seen JFK's head turn at z157 pointed out before, or even heard of it, for that matter. I'm a bit confused, though. Does he make a lightning fast snap in both directions, or just one? It's a bit hard to tell from the gif.

How many oddities, and outright contradictions of eyewitnesses, have to be pointed out before it is admitted the Z-toon is a lie?