Brad Milch

I agree totally, Jim.

Jeff Carter's review is a good read, but for me, it's difficult to enjoy it while cursing at Alexandra Zapruder for being a sell out (lol). She & Clint Hill would make a perfect couple IMHO.

I forgot to mention in my list above of where I feel Alexandra Zapruder fails as a responsible journalist to cast light on probably the one question that's on the most minds concerning Mr. Zapruder & his shaky, jumpy, brief home movie:

#8 - Just what exactly did Abraham Zapruder & the visuals technicians assisting him view when his film was processed & screened by Dallas visual technicians as a quality check? Where any of those topics listed in #7 present in the film when Mr. Z. & those developing/screening his film projected it when it was 'hot off the presses', before it landed in Federal  & MSM hands? It's the one question that's the most avoided, the most skipped over in interviews & analysis.

I look at it like this: no one knew better than Abraham Zapruder if his movie had been monkeyed around with by those who obtained either copies of the film or the original film itself. I ask myself if I could have kept knowledge that such had occurred from my immediate family & relatives unless I thought their lives would be in danger if I told them what I knew.

Where was the danger in the JFK case? Right there with the officials that replaced JFK & subsequently pretended to investigate his murder. In an environment like that, I can understand Mr. Zapruder tip-toeing around the issues, but his granddaughter doing the same dance decades later, I cannot.

I suspect a good many people that read Alexandra's worthless book (I read it at my local library for free, but I wasn't very happy with it) & follow up with Jeff Carter's review may come away from it all with the feeling that they'd like to have the hours back they wasted & hope Alexandra Zapruder enjoys spending her grandfather's fortune while applying herself to something she's probably a lot better at than writing books: making pizza.

I saved Max Holland for last. Distinguished JFK author/animator/consultant Dale Meyers routinely carves Max up, chews, & regurgitates anything Holland publishes online; clearly demonstrating that even a dedicated LN advocate can't stand him (lol)

BM

This book was a huge waste of time for me, Jim. Alexandra didn't...:

1. Tell us where Abraham Zapruder was, what he was doing & what was happening with his film during those several hours Life Magazine's Dick Stolley kept calling Zapruder's house, feverishly trying to set up a meeting where he could pitch Zapruder for his film (it's been suggested that someone put a gun to Zapruder's head & took his film to NPIC & then on to Hawkeye Works to be tricked out).

2. Tell us if Abe Zapruder shared his wealth with his filming partner, his receptionist, Marilyn Sitzman. One good shove from Marilyn (on the pedestal steadying Mr. Z) & there would have been no Z-film (lol).

3. Give us an accurate account of when the Z-film was looked at when NPIC received it. NPIC had the film the assassination weekend, much sooner than the December 1963 time period Alexandria gives us.

4. Explain to us why her grandfather (in his WC testimony) did not recognize the end of the reflecting pool (where Brennen was seated), the ornamental  wall behind it (closer to Zapruder & Sitzman) as something he filmed, thought he had cleared the Stemmons sign & where exactly (in z-fames) he told the WC JFK was first shot.

5. Mr. Z's private comments with his family about his WC & Clay Shaw trial testimony.

6. tell us why her grandfather avoided interviews until he died when the atmosphere was full of conspiracy allegations & theories (1967 CBS TV JFK special being an exception).

7. Address the new & recent research concerning reported activity that occurred during the filming of the Zapruder film that is not seen in his film (this includes SS agents dismounting the SS "Queen Mary' to surround the JFK parade car & then rush the north knoll, DPD motorcycle officer Chaney riding past the stricken JFK parade car to Chief Curry to inform him JFK had been shot in the head, the missing limo turn onto Elm Street from Houston Street, The scene depicting JFK being thrown violently forward (Dan Rather TV description) and the limo stop on Elm Street near the Newman family).

I suspect Alexandria does not want to bite the hand that fed her family so well all these years as she rides on & cashes in on the Zapruder name (like the surviving family members/relatives are desperate for more money than they've already received, right?). Alexandria should leave roasting CT advocates to the pros & quietly enjoy the wealth she accidentally inherited IMHO. It's sad (to me) that fate wasn't kinder to the Newman family that had left their home movie camera at home before positioning themselves in front of Zapruder & Sitzman. I have no doubt in my mind that their home movie would have missed all the obstacles that frustrate viewers & researchers in the Z-film, producing a superior film. IMHO, the big bucks was wasted on Mr. Zapruder's amateurish, sloppy, shaky effort. That, & skipping over the DPD with his film (when the DPD was asking Dallas citizens to furnish them with films & photos to help them in their investigation of the JFK ambush) & kissing up to the Feds instead tells me a lot about Zapruder's character.

The Newmans were THERE when the 'Big Event' happened in front of their eyes; Alexandria might have sat on her grandfather's lap once or twice when he dresses up & played 'Santa' long afterwards. For me, the Newmans would be a better choice in source materials for those trying to understand the case.

Respectfully & Sincerely,

Brad Milch

@David Von Pein & Michael Walton:

After reading Joe Pepitone's book in the '70's, I believe Mickey Mantle's batting average would have been much higher if he'd laid off the pot smoking with Pepitone (lol). That goes for Whitey Ford, Elston Howard, Yogi Berra, Roger Maris & all the other Yankees Pepitone may have corrupted with his drugs fans would toss at him from the stands wrapped in tin foil (lol). Sheesh!

I hope you both didn't suffer the horror I discovered when I learned my good 'ol dad had taken advantage of me leaving home for the Army, cleaned out my room & tossed out all my trading cards & comics (one featuring Mantle & Maris - I think it was a Batman or Superman issue). A small fortune in collectables slipped right thru my little fingers...including my Beatles trading cards (crying hysterically)....

I've never gotten over it, nor forgiven. My mother kept it from me for a long, long time. She KNEW how much the old Yanks meant to me....mom never let on that she suspected me of blowing my lunch money on Tops baseball & Beatles trading cards & gum.

Brad

PS: David's baseball time trip was marvelous, to say the least. Possibly one of the best pieces he's ever written. It belongs in David's Hall Of Fame too (along with the video clip of JFK tossing out the ball from a Washington stadium that David has posted at his video blog) IMHO.

That fine looking young man with #7 on the back of his uniform shirt clearly demonstrates that David Von Pein is not the monster some try to make him out to be....

@John Butler

John, I can help fill Bill Miller a bit more in on those old Lancer discussions on Altgens 6 alterations in regards to the to the train of thought of the posters at the birth of the thread(s) and how the topic expanded as the thread(s) progressed. I trust this won't distract your thread, John. This may take me a while to get it all typed, so please bear with me & check back for updates. I should be done with it when I sign off at the bottom of the post.

First of all, some of the discussions may have originated at alt.jfk as well as Lancer. The two websites often featured similar discussions & I bounced back & forth between the two. I never miss an opportunity to refer back to the old Lancer because I feel what was done to the website was horribly wrong for the staff & contributors, their global readers and American free speech. Bringing back some of those topics, while not as good as having the original posters re-post them here at EF, helps fight back against the perpetrators a little bit (in my mind). I also communicated privately with several researchers in email. Parts of discussions may have originated there as well.

Wherever Jack White was posting (it may have been here at EF), I followed his posts as well as a lurker. Jack believed ALL the JFK ambush visuals (photos & films) had been tampered with in some way, shape or form.

Between those websites, the discussions on Altgens 6 originated from the apparent discrepancies between what witnesses observed during the attack on JFK & John Connally & what was reported as SS agent responses in the press, TV & the WC. It started there. Names & observations that come to mind are Bob Clark, Ralph Yarborough, Walter Cronkite, Hugh Betzner & Bill Newman (possibly Gayle Newman as well).

Bob Clark broadcast a radio report in which he stated he saw SS men with weapons surround JFK's limo during or after the ambush. I'm not sure what TV network broadcast it (this is from memory). Hugh Betzner claimed in a Dallas report that he saw a chrome pistol displayed near JFK during the attack. Bill Newman commented in interviews that SS men with automatic rifles ran past him & his family during (or after) the ambush that Bill believed had come from the SS 'Queen Mary'. I believe Senator Yarborough made press statements along those same lines. There may have been other examples; those stick in my memory.

Somewhere, in the conversations, it was postulated that the 'kill organizers' may have made photographs & films prior to the ambush to sell a false image of what had happened. This is where Altgens 6 & the Z-film entered the discussions. At the time, Altgens 6 & the Z-film were used as examples to support each other in authenticity discussions. One researcher I recall doing such was Josiah Thompson.

Someone claimed they interpreted JFK's image in Altgens 6 as laying across the backseat, his head out of sight on Jackie's lap, with Jackie holding up one of his arms. Another claimed they interpreted Altgens 6 as JFK bent forward in his seat & reaching back behind him with one of his hands, as if reaching for the middle of his back. This interpretation supported the WC testimony of Roy Kellerman (it was noted).

It was discussed that the motorcycle image of DPD officer Chaney as he appears in Altgens 6 should be closer to the JFK limo & visible in the car's shiny reflection off JFK's side of the car in the Z-film (Larry Rivera is performing research in this area using computer graphics animation in 'The New JFK Show #132 that is viewable/downloadable from YouTube Larry believes Chaney was close enough to JFK to reach over from his motorcycle & touch JFK on the arm. Larry also believes what we see in the reflections on JFK's side of his parade car is a 'paint job'). Chaney became a hot topic, as it was postulated than he should be seen in the Z-film at Z-255 & beyond & he's not. That, plus Chaney is said to have ridden past the JFK limo to inform Jesse Curry JFK had been shot in the head. That's missing from the Z-film, along with other reported activity made by on site witnesses over the years. 

I can recall discussions alleging that the image of SS agent John Ready in Altgens 6 has been altered: the contributors believed agent Ready held a pistol in his right hand that had been darkened out as well as his point of view changed from looking at the back of JFK's head changed to looking somewhat rearward. According to the contributors, Ready can be seen holding something in his right hand briefly before the z_film is cut & spliced early in the film (before the JFK car disappears behind the Stemmons sign).

That's all I can remember at the moment. I hope this helps John in his thread.

I remember Bill Miller & his animated gif's posted at Lancer. IIRC, Bill & Jack White used to lock horns here at EF. Jack called him 'visually impaired' (lol). I don't remember how Bill Miller responded. Bill's animated gifs of the Z-film were really good, but Internet speed & bandwidth wasn't quite what it's developed into back then. Too many animated gifs running at the same time on the same webpage caused my browser to either take forever to load or simply crash.

Respectfully & sincerely,

Brad Milch

@David Von Pein

I had a feeling you'd excel in the situation, David. You stand up to power sluggers day in & day out. I hope EF readers & researchers alike can read thru the lines & realize that the underlying message was: excluding DVP (David Von Pein) from the game only causes the game to suffer.

You're tougher than I'll ever be, David. That's one of the reasons I admire reading your posts & your unwavering viewpoints about the JFK case.

Respectfully & sincerely,

Brad Milch

Any thread that features you, Cliff, and Paul Trejo vs. Jim DiEugenio is a entertaining, educational read for EF readers.

For me, the obvious love you 3 researchers have for each other (NOT!) is like that old Sylvester & Tweety cartoon in which Granny makes them stop fighting & hug each other & kiss. Both began spitting violently (lol).

EF readers can feel the love too & ignore posts if it gets out of hand.

Brad Milch

James DiEugenio said: Don't forget the ice bullet and the flechette Cliff.

Or the alleged Robert & Marina Oswald sleaze that appeared in the 'Ruth Pain was a CIA operative' thread a few months back.

I'm not sure if either Cliff or Paul was responsible for it or not. For those that missed it, Robert Oswald was alleged to have been docking his ship at Marina's port of entry (lol). Ralph Cinque has picked up on it & demanding a DNA test between LHO's brother Robert & LHO's 2 daughters on his blog.

Seriously...I kid you not. Sleaze catches attention.

BM

@Cliff Varnell

This is getting good, Cliff (so good, in fact, I put off downloading Microsoft's free Windows 7 3+ Gigabyte ISO file to free up time until the alleged 'dissing' is over & I can get both yours & Paul Trejo's viewpoints together in one thread for reference).

It kinda reminds me of the old Yankees in the last inning of the World Series: Yanks are down by 3. Bases are loaded. 2 outs. Next at bat: Mickey Mantle [Roger Maris next, following Mickey]

Mickey's at the plate batting left handed instead of his usual right, signaling sportscasters & fans alike that Mickey's 'going for the fence'. Sandy Koufax has been replaced by Mr. 'LHO did it', David Von Pein, who has unexpectedly been brought to the mound from the bullpen. David's looking to strike Mickey out & put the Series to bed.

The suspense is thick. Those in the stands are munching on hot dogs, peanuts & cracker jacks. Others not present have their ears glued to small transistor radios....

(smiles)

Restfully & Sincerely,

Brad Milch

@Jim DiEugenio

Quote: 'Varnell and Trejo dissing each other.

           And its free'. Jim DiEugenio

What's your take on all this, Jim? Both researchers can't both be correct (1963 CIA did it vs 1963 Dallas right wing did it), can they? (I didn't include David Von Pein's viewpoint 'LHO did it' because he has stated that he in not a researcher. For David, the case was settled over 53 years ago & it was neither the 1963 CIA nor the 1963 Dallas right wing; it was LHO).

If you doubt it was the Dallas right wing, you'll save me & countless other EF readers from digging through libraries for Gen. Walker books. Thanks in advance (smile).

BTW, what's your take on LHO tried to kill Gen Walker to save JFK's life? That angle would appear to indicate LHO did indeed order his weapons, would it not? That would make David Von Pein correct in his assessments. Could you handle that if it was the case, Jim?

Respectfully & sincerely,

Brad Milch

There's a 'gap' in the Zapruder story, David. It was during that period of time when Dick Stolley was phoning his home every 30 minutes or so trying to set up a deal meeting for the film. IIRC, no one knew where Mr. Z. was or what he was doing. The story I read was he went driving around Dallas trying to 'clear his head'. Perhaps the answer to your question lies there.

This statement will probably get me in trouble with Jim DiEugenio again, but it needs to be said: accepting the WC's version of events is always the easiest route to put this story to bed.

Just because I said it doesn't mean I subscribe to it (lol).

Before closing, I do have some comments to EF readers concerning Mr. Zapruder's film:

1. To fully appreciate just how close to JFK Mr. Zapruder & Marilyn Sitzman were when the doomed President was shot in the head & killed, one needs to visit Dealey Plaza & stand on the filming 'pedestal'. It was that close; directly in front of both Zapruder & Sitzman. As a comparison, imagine taking a home movie of Jonah & capturing a whale breaking the ocean surface & swallowing him up (lol).

2. Had I been doing the filming, I would have been in trouble the instant I smelled Marilyn's perfume. When she made contact with my body (to steady me), there would have gone the camera. Dropped like a hot rock (lol).

3. There are a number of interesting Zapruder themed videos one can find on YouTube with a variety of theories contained within. Everything from Mr. Z had advance knowledge of the assassination to he being the shooter.

4. Mr. Zapruder's WC & Clay Shaw trial testimony is a good read. The subject of alteration of his film was addressed. Mr. Zapruder believed he had cleared the Stemmons sign. The WC failed to pinpoint the exact frame(s) Zapruder told them JFK was 1st struck.

5. Marilyn Sitzman was not called to testify before the WC or any other Government investigative body. Jim Garrison did not call her to testify either in the Clay Shaw trial. We first heard from Marilyn in Josiah Thompson's blockbuster 1967 CT book, 'Six Seconds in Dallas'. Marilyn tells us in that book that a young black couple were sitting on the park bench midway from her & Mr. Z. & the end of the retaining wall they stood on while filming the Z-film (a dual effort). The frightened couple both threw down & smashed soda bottles when the gunfire erupted as they ran away from it. In 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy', Marilyn tells us Mr. Z began filming 'just before they (JFK & entourage) came around the corner'. It's not known if Mr. Zapruder shared the wealth his film brought him with Marilyn Sitzman, Zapruder's filming partner.

6. In 2016 dollars, it was calculated that Abraham Zapruder's film brought him just under 1 million dollars from Life magazine. Zapruder died not long after receiving his final payment. When the AARB classified the Zapruder film as an 'assassination record', the US Government paid Zapruder's heir 16 million dollars.

7. Had Mr. Z not gotten on the pedestal with Marilyn Sitzman, but simply walked forward just a few feet & positioned himself in the vicinity behind the Newman family, he would have cleared the obstacles that obstructed his view in his film. Ironically, had the Newman family brought their home movie camera to Dealey Plaza with them (they had forgotten it when they left their home that morning) and made their own film of JFK's parade car making its journey down Elm Street when it came under attack, the Newmans probably would have produced a better film than Zapruder did. The Newmans missed the big bucks by fate.

8. After Life Magazine purchased the Zapruder film, it published select frames. First in black & white & then later, in color. The magazine reported that the film showed JFK turning around in his seat to look back at his assailant in the TSBD's 'sniper's nest' & was subsequently shot in the throat. The magazine never published a retraction. Neither the FBI or SS ever protested publicly what Life had reported to global readers.

9. J. Edgar Hoover did not consider the Zapruder film to be of 'evidentiary value'.

Respectfully & sincerely,

Brad Milch

@David Von Pein:

What really aggravates me about Vincent Bugliosi's analysis of the Z-film (or whoever Vince farmed the work out to...possibly Dale Meyers?) is no one bothered to ask the person who developed the original Z-film and the 3 copies to describe what they observed when they ran the developed films while quality checking them for Mr. Zapruder. There were in-house witnesses to those projections. No one talked to them either. Those folks saw the Z-film BEFORE Life's Dick Stolley & Dallas based CBS TV journalist Dan Rather did.

All of those people could have quite easily answered questions on if JFK's parade car rounded the intersection of Houston & Elm Streets, did the car come to a complete stop, what the head shot debris gore looked like, and if they saw activity in the film not present in the original stored at the National Archives.

Simply arguing something cannot be done or is impossible doesn't cut it. Ask Christopher Columbus (if one could, that is) if a voyage around the world is possible in the face of being told not only was it not possible, but it would end up in death when the ship fell off the flat earth. Who told Chris that BS? The 'experts' that knew everything there was to know at the time (lol).

Brad Milch

@Paul Trejo:

Quote: 'Brad, I would like to recommend to you the 900 page book by Dr. Jeff Caufield, namely, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).  (I think it's only $29 today.)' - Paul Trejo

Thank you for taking the time to compose all that information you shared with me & fellow EF readers, Paul. It was a fascinating read & I will read the book you suggested. I expect it will fill in for me what was happening around me while I was an adolescent & unaware of the cesspool the world I was born into actually was. Back then I thought life was all about 'Leave It To Beaver' & 'The Adventures of Ozzie & Harriet' TV shows, plus filling my pockets with winnings from countless games of marbles with my young school chums. It's a shame young school kids aren't schooled on how to deal with the reality that surrounds them; a reality that youngsters can't possibly deal with once they are fully immersed in the violent, troubled waters of life they face as young adults.

Your explanation of why Gen. Walker was shot at, who the shooter was & why that person ambushed the General in his home is sure to attract comments from your fellow EF researchers (particularly those who feel LHO was set up for that ambush in advance of JFK). I look forward to their comments as time progresses.

Best wishes here, there & everywhere,

Respectfully & Sincerely,

Brad Milch

Jim,

What you are describing was called 'shuck & jive' in the area I was partially educated at as I grew into a young adult. It's another way of describing when someone who knows better loads a gullible, trusting person with utter BS.

I appreciate the schooling, kind, learned, distinguished & esteemed Good Sir!

Respectfully & Sincerely,

Brad Milch

When someone uses the term '1963 radical right', immediate thoughts of racist groups (Klu Klux Klan), Gen. Edwin Walker, Barry Goldwater (among several others) probably come to mind for a lot of people, Paul.

Why 1963-1964's Earl Warren & his high office peers would want to shield the likes of those people in the interest of national security instead of hunting down the JFK ambush perpetrators & bringing them to justice has got to be a good read. Those groups were hardly a secret; one could see them in action on TV news broadcasts & MSN newspaper investigative reports any given day of any given month 'back in the day'.

We'll have to wait & see what the 2017 enslaved documents reveal once released the later part of 2017. I, for one, would be interested in your take on the issue, Paul. I never paid much attention to 1960's right wingers unless they came after me to lynch (lol).

If, as David Von Pein insists that LHO shot at Gen. Walker (and missed) before killing JFK & J.D. Tippit, does that mean if had LHO killed the General, JFK's life might have been saved by LHO?

I don't believe David Von Pein will ever acknowledge LHO as a hero in this sordid JFK saga, do you?

Brad Milch

@Paul Trejo

Paul, if I read & understand you correctly, you are expressing exactly how I feel about the JFK ambush & Dallas double murders after following the story for over 53 years (all sides of it).

Very simply put, the US government created the mess the JFK cold case is frozen in by simply not acknowledging the following in its WC Report: 'the available evidence cannot be entirely trusted. As such, the appearance in the evidence that LHO committed the crimes against JFK, John Connally & J.D. Tippit solo does not eliminate the possibility that appearance was created & assembled by unknown others involved in the crimes'.

Had the US Government said that back in 1963-1964 (and subsequent years as more info was learned & released to the public), I, for one, would have accepted it as an honest assessment. History has shown us that the FBI, WC, HSCA & all the other Government entities that addressed the JFK ambush have failed to offer the global public what it feels to be an honest assessment of what happened.

Sincerely,

Brad Milch

PS: Your earlier comments concerning Dallas law enforcement members comprising the kill or cover-up teams (or both) is spot on, Paul. Some of the shooting took place within the boundaries of where Sheriff Decker's officers & other employees parked their cars. That area is where Decker ordered his officers to report to on the radio. That's the area the spectators & DPD motorcade officers converged on. Railroad employees had been bunched together at the northern arm of the triple overpass during the attack (thinning out the closest witnesses). Decker & Curry was located below the parking lot where Elm Street converges with the triple over/underpass when the bullets started flying in the JFK ambush. That spells out much of who was responsible for the attack to me. IMHO, it was within the ranks of Dallas law enforcement. Maybe one or two men who could move about the confines of Decker's parking lot without alarming Dallas law enforcement. A couple more to move & plant evidence in Dealey Plaza & Parkland.

It doesn't include what was planned to transpire in Chicago a few weeks prior to Nov 22, 1963. If those people were involved in the JFK attack, someone within Dallas law enforcement made access to Decker's employee parking lot available to them IMHO.

Hang around a police parking lot, not be known to the authorities in that area, & take note of how quickly one will be called out & questioned. No such call out & questioning occurred in Decker's employee parking lot over 53 years ago (other than the arrest of the 3 train riding tramps).

@Jim DiEugenio

Quote: 'Brad, are you serious?' - Jim DiEugenio

Very much so, Jim. I look at everything written & posted here at EF as a college student deciding on what to offer his/her professor on any given paper/topic on the JFK subject. Just like the adversarial processes are a necessary element of a 'fair trial (both Prosecutor & Defense are required to present a case as 'fair' to a jury), David Von Pein's observations & comments are a necessary element of a 'fair' debate. A student turning in a lop-sided paper is likely to have it rejected & handed back by a professor (that professor possibly being you, Jim!).

Is the judicial adversarial process perfect? Nope. I'm still waiting for OJ's prosecutors to present the 'low speed chase' into his murder trial. A televised event I wasted a couple of hours watching on my TV that I'll never get back that somehow was left out of the trial. How did that happen?

David could have just as easily written off the images seen in the Z-film as products of bad photography. Or a faulty camera lens. Or cheap film. Or gremlins that monkey around with stuff in laboratories late in the night. I gave him credit where it looked to me it was due.

As for you, I haven't missed a Len Osanic Black Op radio show featuring you as a guest in the past several years. Len won't interview David. He really should. It would liven up his show. Like you, I'm agnostic on film & photo alterations simply because I have no expertise in that subject. Both of my parents told their terrified adolescent that what he saw in the movie 'King Kong' from the back seat of a 1953 Buick at a creepy drive-in theatre in the early 1950's wasn't real. As a result, I learned early in life not to trust film images. Even today, I check my windows ever so often just in case a giant ape is about to smash through the window & grab me out....

What's always been missing from the narrative is the stories of the technicians who performed the suspected allegations. The folks operating the optical printers & painting stuff on rectangular glass 'cells'. Those folks that did the actual work. What happened to them in 53 years?

I have a question for everyone interested in this thread: How is it that bootleg autopsy images of President Kennedy are taken as genuine? Didn't they all get slipped into the public consciousness by a SS agent? The same SS agency that has been accused of standing down while JFK was slaughtered. The same SS agency that supposedly desecrated JFK's corpse, removed bullets from it & hid it in AF-1's cargo bay? The same SS agency that allegedly shot JFK while acting as his trusted chauffer? The same agency that allegedly shot JFK in the head from behind with an AR-16 military rifle & killed him?

How can anyone trust that particular agency agents with anything tangible if some or all of its agents are guilty of those (and other) high crimes?

The gory JFK autopsy photos presented in this thread all came from questionable sources, yet they have been presented here at EF in this thread as if Moses came down from the mountain with them still smoking. I don't trust any of them. As far as I'm concerned, until the Kennedy family officially releases some or all of JFK's autopsy photos, the public hasn't seen them.

Brad Milch

Giving credit where it is obviously due, David, that was one hell of a smack you gave that grand slam. I could hear it way over where I was running my crab traps (and I wasn't even on the Internet!). They tell me the ball left the stadium so fast that it began to unravel & resembled a small meteor entering the atmosphere as gravity pulled it down. I wonder if it landed on the head of the 1st Z-film 'black patch' proponent.

It's always great to see a dedicated researcher step up to the plate & do his/her own visuals analysis & not lean on self-proclaimed 'experts'. This isn't the first time you've caught things that have been overlooked by many others over the years, David. I don't expect it to be the last either.

I hear lots of crickets in the distance. You just may have astounded with such efficiency & effectiveness that all the air of your detractors has left their bodies, rendering them completely unable to respond?

Stranger things have happened.

Keep on keeping on, Mr. Von Pein!

Brad Milch

Quote   'And while we're on the subject of heroes, it's one thing to drag a murdered president through the mud like the mainstream media has done through the years. Your hero Vince was no saint.  He lived with a mistress for 20 years while lying to his wife all along. And he became a professional author, taking his marching orders to write agenda-driven works of (non)-fiction.  Just like Plagar-Posner and all the other hacks'. - Michael Walton

This might not be the best time to drop this important quote from Michael Walton in this thread, but I feel it needs to be considered. Perhaps it can be commented on as the thread progresses or picked up in another thread.

 I can feel Michael's pain in his words: after all, these devious people that are accused of tampering with the JFK evidence, from blacked out film & photo images, altered film frames, faked, fabricated ballistics & medical evidence (being at the top of the list of unlawful shenanigans) opposes those who proudly (and passionately) argue that the evidence that LHO is solely guilty of the murders of President Kennedy & DPD officer Tippit stares them in the face like a knockout punch, were, for the most part, our elders. Most of those people were elders to Michael & me. People we looked up to for honesty. As youngsters, they were role models for us; people we hoped to be able to replace someday. Some were highly paid professionals or elected officials entrusted with high offices that governed our country at the time. We expected these people to have integrity, honesty, morals & scruples. The allegations of their wrongdoing in their involvement in the JFK case leaves many wondering 'is there anybody with any integrity left in this country? How many of those people trying to sell 'LHO did it' are credible today when viewed with the 'dirt' researchers have dug up on them?

Skipping David Von Pein here (he is a EF member & deserves soft gloves out of membership respect), Vincent Bugliosi is the modern version of John Lennon's 'We're bigger than Jesus' remark from 1966. Like Lennon & his fellow Beatles were on top of the world during Beatlemania, Bugliosi was on a roll with his 'LHO did it' TV debates, documentary appearances & his massive book. For a while, one couldn't turn a TV channel on without seeing Vincent tearing into another CT victim. Then...like Lennon....all by himself ....

.....Bugliosi shot himself in the foot by writing a book arguing against the existence of a Supreme Being. For many in the religious belief world, such blatant blasphemy canceled out the good Vince tried to do (if one can call it that). Many believe Vincent Bugliosi was spreading the work of the Devil in one or more of his books. How can someone find him credible after what he's authored? Isn't using Bugliosi's words also spreading Satanic work?

Another person many people globally reject as credible is Fidel Castro. How can one read his two post-ambush of JFK speeches & believe his line of reasoning, when remembering that not only was Castro a mass murdering dictator, but he also allowed the Soviet Union to park enough nukes aimed at the USA on Cuban soil to blow that portion of rock completely off the earth? Some still believe he was behind LHO & his handing out the 'Hands Off Cuba' hand outs in New Orleans.

David Von Pein has a tremendous uphill battle in arguing for evidence that the majority of people believe is garbage assembled to frame an innocent man. I can't help but admire his patience & fortitude, while at the same time reading words here at EF that more & more researchers are finding him less & less credible because of his refusal to see the other side of the coin(s) & using people of bad judgement/integrity as credible crutches to make his debate points.

To me, David is old school: the old 'blind faith' in institutions, evidence collected by those in those institutions, don't question authority, you can't fight City Hall, that the USA used to be.

Iraq's Sadam Hussein (another mass murdering dictator) redefined this country years ago as 'The Great Satan'. Our new President reminds us constantly that he believes he lost votes in his election because of fraud, indicating cherished national elections are no longer immune from attack. Everything is questioned today, particularly an unsolved cold case from over 53 years ago.

David Von Pein's LHO beliefs may be a cross too big for most people to be willing to drag behind them these days. For students looking at career choice options, I would hesitate at choosing defending the evidence the WC & HSCA used to determine LHO was guilty of double murder 53 years ago as a good career choice, simply because more people don't believe it than do, regardless of the newest messenger delivering it.

Respectfully & Sincerely,

Brad Milch

@David Von Pein & Paul:

In several debates (and in his massive book), Vincent Bugliosi emphasizes that JFK researchers, enthusiasts, historians, students, hobbyists & journalists that separate the evidence all make the same mistake. The segments are only a portion of the whole picture. All the evidence against LHO, when viewed as a whole, paints a picture of his guilt (according to Mr. Bugliosi). That is, if one finds the evidence credible.

I'm obviously as guilty of not looking at the whole evidence in the case against LHO as the next person that does the same.

Vince was a brilliant reasoner. I wonder if he's convinced the Creator that he doesn't exist or if Vince was right all along that we're all alone on this crowded rock...(if Vince is correct on THAT divinity issue, it means he doesn't have anyone to debate the issue (wherever Vince is).

(lol)

Respectfully & sincerely,

Brad Milch

@Paul

Very good points you make that deserve close scrutiny & consideration from those following the debates here at EF, good Sir!

I often wonder if some of the shooting people heard in Dealey Plaza over 53 years ago wasn't someone trying to gun down LHO in the TSBD before he could get out.

Another is the question: how would the story have been received by the public if it had been LHO laying dead in the street from bullets instead of DPD officer Tippit? Police gun down alleged fugitives on the run all the time.

Respectfully & sincerely,

Brad Milch

Wow! Esteemed JFK authors/researchers David Lifton & David Von Pein take off the gloves here on EF. Can it get any better than this?

In David Lifton's corner, I am looking forward to Final Charade explaining to me why Lee Oswald wasn't killed immediately after the ambush of JFK either in the TSBD or close proximity  while allegedly 'on the run'. That explanation from early investigators would have made a lot of better, acceptable sense at the time: 'man in building shoots JFK & John Connally passing by in a car during a parade in Dallas, then man is killed after threatening police responders that entered the building. Man's rifle & spent shells is found next to his body after police took him out'.

I hope David Lifton explains why the JFK kill organizers risked Lee Oswald simply walking over to WFAA-TV, telling Program Director Jay Watkins he had important info about the attack on JFK & JBC & demand to be placed on the air. (Had LHO taken that route from the TSBD, he would have walked right past a parked bus at the intersection of Main & Houston streets that could have aided his 'escape' once traffic began moving again after the ambush). Would JFK kill organizers be so sloppy as to risk that?

In David Von Pein's corner, he pretty much has laid his Prosecutor's case out before: 'man in building shoots JFK & JBC, hides weapon between some boxes, is spotted in a lunchroom & questioned by a police responder, man's boss clears man, man walks out & makes his way to his rooming house to arm himself......encounters DPD officer Tippit & murders him...hides in the Texas theatre....etc....'

People globally have a tremendous amount of respect for both Davids (Lifton & Von Pein). I'm in that number. What they both say matters in this case that only has 3 possibilities: LHO did it alone, LHO did it with help, LHO was framed.

Sincerely & respectfully,

Brad Milch

@David:

While you're waiting on a response from photo analysts to your question, may I slip this link to one of the Jim Walker JFK motorcade photos into the topic? I'll explain after the photo link. It ties into your question.

Notice how similar the people in the SS followup car, the back of JFK's head & the motorcycle officer on JFK's side of his parade car look to the Hugh Betzner photo #3 (JFK car & SS followup car just beginning to head down the slope of Elm Street). The subjects almost look identical in both photos, do they not?

http://emuseum.jfk.org/view/objects/asitem/search@/8/title-asc?t:state:flow=d9f79375-0b7c-4bf6-ae6b-72e4b0c8b319

From my memory, as a frequent lurker to the old JFK Lancer Forum (I could read the posts, but could not comment), the topic of Altgens photo 6 alteration was being discussed about the same time the Lancer Forum was hacked online & destroyed. In that discussion, someone was asking where else other than Dealey Plaza could a photo editor have obtained images to incorporate into Altgens 6?

From memory, the responses varied from 'anywhere in the Dallas motorcade, to images from the Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio motorcades the day prior to the ambush of JFK as well as past motorcades (Tampa, etc.)'. The consensus appeared to be that the images of the key players (JFK, John Connally, Jackie, Clint Hill & his fellow agents, etc. present in Altgens 6 could have been lifted from other images taken at different locations & incorporated into what is known as Altgens photo 6.

As I recall, the discussions were veering into the questions of:

1. Could the Altgens 6 photo have been created in advance of the actual ambush of JFK (assuming a conspiracy to take JFK's life knew in advance where the hit would take place)?

2. Could the Zapruder film have been created in advance of the actual ambush of JFK (as opposed to suspicion of being a tampering victim afterwards)?

3. Was Jack White correct in his belief that ALL JFK attack visuals are fakes or alteration victims? Could those also have been created in advance of the actual ambush of JFK?

Shortly afterwards, the website was attacked & destroyed (if my memory is correct).

FWIW for the interest of EF readers & visuals analysts actively working on the cold case. If there is a future unexplored area of the JFK assassination, some feel it will be new & different studies of the visual record of the case.

Sincerely,

Brad Milch

To all:

From discussion on the Towner film I recall reading on the Internet a few years back, attention was drawn to the mud smear on the left rear tire (Jackie's side) of JFK's parade car that is visible in Hugh Betzner's 2nd photo (the one that shows JFK's car turning in front of the Towner family on Elm Street with the TSBD in the background plus the Towner family watching the car make its turn). It was pointed out that the large tire smear (looks to take up almost an entire 1/2 circumference of the tire) does not appear to be rotating in the Towner film, nor is the mud smear seen at all.

Also discussed: the difference between the 'Towner film crowd' & the 'Martin film crowd'; described as 'standing zombies' in Towner vs. an 'active, moving around, waving crowd' in Martin's film.

Attention was directed to the (then) recent interviews of Pierce Allman, in which Pierce states JFK & Jackie were both waving at the crowd at the mouth of the reflecting pool, an action not seen in the Towner, Martin, Bell or Zapruder films.

As I recall, Life Magazine was the first to publicize frames from the Towner film in a 1967 Life magazine edition. Frames from the Towner, Dorman Hughes & Paschall  films plus Wilma Bond slides all appeared in the same magazine issue for the first time in 1967, IIRC. Life's own Josiah Thompson would publicize select frames of these visuals in his blockbuster book, Six Seconds In Dallas (also published in 1967). Thompson is a well known defender of Zapruder film authenticity & is considered by many as one of the 'founding fathers' of CT thinking. Thompson's book argued the case of 3 assassins murdering JFK in a well orchestrated crossfire.

The discussions I read included comments of splices (or scene 'cut outs') in the Hughes, Dorman, Bell, Paschall & Towner films & the appearance of the application of black artist's paint applied to glass cells overlaid on film frames & re-photographed via an optical printer to disguise something in a particular scene(s) of a visual. All of the Life magazine visuals discussed (Towner, Hughes, Bond, Dorman, Paschall & Zapruder) were identified in the discussions as suspected alteration victims. In the case of the Hughes film, this would appear to indicate that the person who was in the sniper's nest was 'blacked out' by someone associated with Life magazine, leaving a black blob that appears to move around in that window. Ditto for the other visuals the magazine tracked down, handled & published visuals from; they all were suspected of being altered one way or another by Life associates in the online discussions.

That's all I can remember about those discussions at the moment. The late Gary Mack was feverishly denying the existence of splices in the Towner film, as I remember. Mack claimed film' strengtheners' resembling splices were what analysts were seeing in the Towner film. Mack's presence in the discussions suggests to me that I read them at the old, original Lancer Forum that was subsequently hacked online & destroyed.

Sincerely,

Brad Milch

Quote: 'No matter what anyone might say to the contrary, nobody had a loaded gun pointed at Brad Milch's head while he was typing his comments above. (Did they, Brad?) ' - David Von Pein

Nope, no gun was pointed at my head, David. My comments were heartfelt & sincere. I often look to your reasoning skills to pull me back out of the JFK quagmire & back on a path where I can let the obvious take control & move on with my life. This is especially the case when I compare where the suggestions of behind the scenes devious deeds has taken me thus far in a crime that appeared solved the day of the assassination. Chasing the Devil is, to me, like trying to catch the wind.

This constant back & forth, pro & con intellectual battle can be easily won & put to rest once the 'obvious' is accepted & the matter put to rest. This line of reasoning probably wouldn't win me any points with Mrs. Rodgers (my CT 5th grade teacher), but that's how I feel about the matter at the moment. If she had both David & me sitting outside the class, punished, I'd say it was worth it to avoid the unnecessary chases that brought me nothing but mental fatigue.

I can say that each visit to DVP's audio/visual collection brings back memories of dragging myself through public & school library micro-films archives. I envy today's JFK students, researchers & enthusiasts; the tools that David Von Pein has provided them is nothing short of astounding.

Keep On Keeping On, David

Brad Milch

To David Von Pein & Michael Walton:

Thank you for the search info for David's audio/visual online collections. I will become a friend to it. I can see that I have mis-remembered some things I saw I saw on TV the assassination weekend.

For those who haven't seen it, the WFAA coverage David provided a link to includes Dallas motorcade, Parkland & witness interviews I haven't seen before on the ABC, NBC or CBS TV coverage the assassination weekend. I was surprised at how much coverage I had missed on the East coast (where I lived at the time) as well as how much material has been edited out of TV documentaries over the years (example: In the interview of DPD motorcycle officer Chaney around the 30 minute+ mark of David's video, Officer Chaney's comment that he heard the shot 'come from over my shoulder' has been cut out of every single documentary or amateur analysis video I have ever seen. Those that miss visiting David's collection would never know that comment existed).

David Von Pein has made it possible to relive the assassination experience as it was broadcast in real time on CBS, NBC & ABC TV networks as well Dallas & other Texas viewing areas. Coverage comparisons can be made & visuals for school projects or personal use are available as a result of David's tremendous global education & humanitarian effort he's put into his JFK & related materials online for free. Non of that was even remotely possible 53 years ago when the horrors of the ambushes of President Kennedy, DPD Officer Tippit & prisoner Lee Oswald suddenly burst into a multitude of lives globally. Back then, one had to drag through mountains of public library microfilm to get JFK information.

David has laid the assassination, as it happened, right at everyone's keyboard for free.

As a result of all the educational & humanitarian gifts David has given to the world, I constantly personally try to not lose sight of the fact that regardless of what David believes happened in the assassination of President Kennedy & who was responsible for it, he can either be 100% correct or 100% wrong in his online assessments. People will learn from him one way or the other.

With deepest respect,

Brad Milch