Linda Giovanna Zambanini

Ian & Mark...

Linda,

You should try different spellings - there is a Dallas County record of an Ochus (rather than Occhus) Campbell marrying Mary E. Kupstis in 1984, when Campbell was 75 and Mary was 43! It says Campbell was born in 1909. I'm using a tablet at the moment and don't know how to copy links.

Thanks, Ian, I've always used the spelling "Ochus" and have never seen or tried "Occhus". And yes, i've done A LOT of genealogical research on him and Mary Kupstis was his 2nd marriage after 1st wife died. She was much younger.

Mark, thanks for that obit on Mary Kupstis Campbell! I hadn't seen that before. Actually i never really researched her - i got off on a wild goose chase trying to track down a yearbook photo of OV Campbell, either in Oklahoma at his HS, or at the Dragon Business College he attended. Both dead ends. Oh the hours i've spent on THAT MAN! LOL!

O.V. Campbell is impossible to find anything on! (And i think there has to be a reason for that!) The hours i've spent researching that man....
Anyway after reading Ed's lament at ROKC that photos of him are nowhere to be found (I know...I've searched and searched myself) i decided would do what i could do with what we've got - tiny, blurry images from Betzner, Bell and Wiegman.

And my god, he's a Neanderthal! About 1 to 4 percent of the DNA of anyone outside Africa is Neanderthal in origin due to Homo Sapien, Neanderthal interbreeding ...but i'd say Campbell must've been pushing 10%! He's a tall, hefty, wide guy with a huge, prominent browridge and big nose and ears. He has lt. brn, or blondish or ginger hair and looks like he might have a beard and moustache. (And maybe big sideburns - but could that be film artifact? Because men didn't wear big sideburns back in '63....did they? I thought that came later in the '60s? At any rate ... this does NOT give us a perfectly clear "photo" of him (<---although that could be close!). What it does do is it gives us SOME idea of what he looked like where before we had NONE - so that armed with this general idea of what he looked like - especially since his features are so pronounced - we can now, hopefully, spot him in clearer photos and films from that day!

Happy Hunting!



PS: Could it be that he sort of looks like Col. Sanders with a reddish beard/goatee and moustache? That's the general look i get from the Bell photo.

Edit 12/4/15: I just was re-reading parts of this thread and realized this graphic is a huge f*up of mine! I can only blame it on sleep deprivation! So, please ignore it. I obviously confused the man Tommy briefly posited "might" be an alternate contender to be O.V. Campbell (seen to the EAST of the Truly group in Bell and Betzner in a brown suit, but which he and i both agreed after a short time is NOT O.V.Campbell) with the man in front of Truly I originally put forth as Campbell near the beginning of this thread and who we had all agreed was Truly. This triptych is composed of 2 shots on the left of the "alternate" Campbell (Betzner and Bell) and one of the original Campbell from Wiegman. Obviously they are not the same guy! Duh! Like i said - had to be sleep deprivation! I'm sorry if i confused anyone with this and that i only now caught my mistake!

I just had a new thought about "doorwayman" (ie: Lovelady) as i was pondering that Friday evening (11/22) visit of the FBI agents to Lovelady's house with a copy of the Altgens 6 photo to show him - that and how "doorway man" (Lovelady) and the Altgens 6 photo (or any photo showing Lovelady on the steps, without also showing a clear view of Oswald, would have worked) could have been been set up (by the conspirators) to have tied in - PURPOSEFULLY - with Prayer Man!
(I'm not at all saying that that PM and doorway man are one in the same!).

Ok...don't be rolling your eyes...follow along here:

Recall how relieved the FBI agents were to hear Lovelady identify himself in Altgens 6.

My thought is this - what if from very early on - via eyewitness reports of people who saw PM (ie Lee Harvey Oswald), on the Steps/Landing or just inside the doorway/lobby (and who even may have reported it to the DPD &/or FBI, but whose statements, i posit, could have been "cleansed" of that fact, or who could have been pressured on the spot to state otherwise) - authorities KNEW Oswald was there on the steps. The REAL Oswald (PM) - NOT "doorwayman" Lovelady).

Now, if you were the CIA/Pentagon planner/conspirator in a coup d'etat - you would cover ALL your bases to make sure it came off without a hitch and it didn't end up looking like a coup - but, instead an assassination you could convince the public was done by, take your pick, a lone nut, or Castro, or a "commie pinko" etc... and you would have that designated patsy in place to take the fall for you so your evil, worthless *ss wouldn't end up in the electric chair (where it belonged)! In fact, you'd have several patsies in place at nearby locations for backup incase patsy #1 didn't work out (say in the Daltex or CRB, or maybe someone in the RR yard or behind the stockade fence while one of your real assassins was actually shooting from the South Knoll, for example). If you didn't convince the public and control the outcome your *ss would be grass! Executed for high treason and murder just like the Lincoln conspirators (let's not forget these bastards, if caught would have gotten the death penalty - just as Wade planned for Oswald).

I've heard many LN supporters make just such an arguments against LHO being Prayerman, some version of: "Of course Oswald wasn't just an innocent "patsy" - how could they control where he was - what would you do if he came out on the steps. Duh?! There would go all your assassination plans." (People who make such arguments either have no critical thinking skills and/or naively underestimate the methodical plotting of intelligence agencies in pulling off such executive actions!) Of course the CIA, inventor of the Wilderness of Mirrors, would have thought of and planned for just such a contingency, by having back up patsies and stories at other locations in case patsy#1 fell through. I have no doubt the conspirators in the Dallas coup made just such backup plans. You wouldn't go in willy-nilly - you would make sure if your elected patsy at the TSBD - ended up somewhere where shouldn't have been, and thus had an easy alibi --- like 14+ coworkers and employees seeing him on the landing taking photos of the motorcade & his friends (like Frazier), while the shots were being fired! You might want a clever way to quash such disastrous "rumors"!

Now, how would you do that? Well, putting a guy on the steps, that bears an uncanny resemblance to Oswald, would do just the trick. Afterward if anyone said they saw Oswald there - you could just trot out good ol' Billy Lovelady, and say "See It was just Billy! It was just a misidentification." If witnesses and witnesses persisted, that it was Oswald, they could just be written off as "obsessed," a conspiracy "nut" or sadly mistaken. So, my thought is whether Lovelady was "in on it" or knew he was being put in place for this reason or not, he would be a very convenient cover for just such a breakdown in plans. Plus, after decades of crazy people like Cinque putting forth the "doorwayman" as Oswald story, that would also make it difficult for legitimate PM researchers to have their work taken seriously - it could be painted as yet "another silly CT" - a knockoff version of the discredited "doorwayman" tale by "conspiracy buffs". Thus, the conniving beauty of just such contingency planning.

But, if even THAT didn't work and witnesses on the steps and other employees STILL adamantly refused to "go along" or agree that they had simply mistaken Lovelady for Oswald (PM), and the American public believed them rather than the CIA's Mockingbird story? Then they could always go to plan "B". They could say they arrested Mr. Oswald "in error" - he was actually innocently standing out on the landing photographing the motorcade and having lunch with his friends!

In fact, he/they could show the (Mockingbird) news agencies all the photos he took of the motorcade, AND of his friends and coworkers while standing on the steps! Frazier would be allowed - even encouraged and trotted out - to back up Mr. Oswald's alibi by recounting how his good buddy Lee, on the landing next to him, even took his smiling picture there on the landing that day! (Queue the camera on Lee and Buell holding Buell's smiling, souvenir photo from that tragic day! The AP, UPI and all 3 networks roll with the "poignant human interest story" of the man who was almost sentenced for assassinating the President, all the while the only thing he was shooting - was pictures! ) You see how this works? They could have also put out stories of how, Mr. Oswald, a lover of photography, who had even had a previous job as a photographer (Jaggers), was arrested in error as the assassin, all the while he was doing what he loved - taking pictures of the motorcade! [btw: ironically, his death certificate lists his occupation as "photographer"!] This media spin could be going on in the wake of "breaking news" that they they had just arrested THE ACTUAL lone-nut-commie-pinko assassin in bldg or location "B" nearby - thus laying patsy-dom at the feet of some other clueless, innocent schmuck.

At anyrate, Lovelady could have served a very key purpose - to look like Oswald - the designated TSBD patsy if he DID come out on the steps. Which - of course, he did.

Tommy said:

Linda,

Maybe "Big Lumbering Guy" is standing to the left of the "Two Khaki Guys" in the top photo of post # 139.

--Tommy

PS

The guy labeled "Campbell?" in this Wiegman frame seems to be wearing a coat (you can see a "sliver" of it on his left side) and trousers which are the same color. Like a suit.

Really? If it's the guy i see to the left of the "Khaki Guys" - he is short and fat. "Lumbering man" is very tall and big (like the guy I think is OV Campbell) - - a little husky but not rotund like the guy to the left of the Khaki Guys.

There is another big tall guy farther to the rt (east) of Truly in this photo Bell photo - what do you think about him?

As for the "sliver" of suit on Campbell - I guess i imagined that to be his dark tie or a scarf hanging down the middle. If that's a sliver of his suit .... what is all that white stuff? Is there someone standing there in white that makes it look like he has a white or lt. shirt or jacket on? . I'm lost on the sliver part....

Linda,

I'm not talking about where his tie might be. In the Wiegman frame you posted, "Campbell?" is wearing a dress-up coat or jacket, only a small portion of which is visible covering his left shoulder and side because the frame's edge prevents us from seeing more of said coat or jacket.

I think your "Campbell?" in that Wiegman frame is the same guy that's in the small yellow rectangle, above, (look at how much of his shirt is showing in both frames) and that he's also possibly the guy who waved Baker up the steps in Couch Darnell.

I'm going back to the idea that "Big Lumbering Guy" might have been big Jack Dougherty, in spite of the fact that he testified that he was inside the TSBD at the time.

Or who knows? Maybe Jack was up on the sixth floor, planting evidence.

--Tommy

Tommy...OK!!!! Now I think i finally "see" what you mean about all that white stuff in our original Campbell in Wiegman - when you showed how he is the SAME BIG GUY in the Bell photo (the guy i have the yellow rectangle around him) with his suit jacket unbuttoned and open, and a large area of his torso/white shirt/dark tie exposed. So that is what i'm seeing in our Wiegman "Campbell" (and so the dark area down his middle must be the dark tie as i thought).

So we agree - the same big tall guy next to Truly in the Truly Group in WIEGMAN, that I picked out as Campbell being the "Big Lumbering Guy" and whom we have agreed for some time now was Campbell - IS indeed, (still) Campbell! Right?

BUT at this point you think, IN DARNELL that same big guy is NOT the "Big Lumbering Guy" I had posited a few wks ago was Campbell wandering bk to the Depository after the shots.......but rather, Campbell has moved up to the steps and is instead the "Waving Man" waving Baker up the steps. Right? Just want to make sure we are on the same page....

So, I take it we still agree, on the identification of Campbell - he's the big, tall guy w/o glasses wearing a dark (might be brown) suit, standing next to Truly in Wiegman (and Bell). Correct? Gotchya!

Now... interesting coincidence you should bring up Dougherty! Just yesterday i came across a thread at another JFK assassination forum in which Wes Riddle, a year or 2 ago, identified Dougherty as a big tall dark headed guy in SKAGGS 16, about to be put in a squad car to be taken to DPD for questioning! I had never seen this thread before - don't know how i missed it! It's brilliant. And I don't see that anyone there in that thread refuted his identification. I had never studied a blow up of Skaggs 16 before! Well I did yesterday and cropped out and blew up his face huge.

I had spent a lot of time a year or 2 ago looking at possible yearbook photos of Dougherty at Sunset HS. As you probably know there are several in '40 and '41 - but they are ALL group photos (of either his class, or "Company D" military drill group) and rather than naming each person precisely, their names are listed but they are not attached to anyone - so it's down to an educated guess (WTF?! How is that any way to set up a yearbook?! Irritating as H*ll!).

In '40 I'm guessing he's the extremely tall kid in the front row of his FRESHMAN Class photo in which he is 17 years OLD! 17! So, of course he is the tallest - i'm guessing it's him also because Truly had described him as a big, husky guy. Same for 1941. At that time, i used the blurry Alyea clip & stills of "Dougherty" in the t-shirt on the 6th floor to try to compare these HS class and Company D photos to, to try to figure out which ones could be the real Dougherty. What a PITA! I spent hours...days on that and cropping photos of guys i thought might be him - and got it down to 2 guys who were both huge and I thought looked a lot like Dougherty.

Well... after i blew up Skaggs 16 HUUUUUGE (as crazy Trump says ) I could see that Dougherty in Skaggs 16 did not look like the 2 guys i had previously selected as as my potential Dougherty in Company D (he could still pass for my "Dougherty" selection in the Class photos though - don't ask me how that's possible...). I studied the "Company D" photos again looking for a tall guy (Dougherty was 6'2" according to his military record) who looked like the Skaggs 16 Dougherty, and low and behold the THERE HE WAS! It was amazing - he looked just like SKAGGS 16 Dougherty only thinner. Looking back, i vaguely recall someone had pointed this guy out in the Company D photos before, but i blew it off because he didn't look "husky" enough" in my mind - he looked like a tall ectomorph - and didn't look enough like the huskier guy in Alyea who also seemed to have lighter hair. I think I allowed that blurry Alyea clip and Truly's description of Dougherty as a "big husky guy", to taint my search for him - even though i should have questioned it because it was 20+ yrs removed from his HS days. Well... i made a comparison graphic of of the SKAGGS 16 Dougherty & the "Company D" Doughertys:

"Company D" 1940

"Company D" 1941

Tommy said:

Linda,

Maybe "Big Lumbering Guy" is standing to the left of the "Two Khaki Guys" in the top photo of post # 139.

--Tommy

PS

The guy labeled "Campbell?" in this Wiegman frame seems to be wearing a coat (you can see a "sliver" of it on his left side) and trousers which are the same color. Like a suit.

Really? If it's the guy i see to the left of the "Khaki Guys" - he is short and fat. "Lumbering man" is very tall and big (like the guy I think is OV Campbell) - - a little husky but not rotund like the guy to the left of the Khaki Guys.

There is another big tall guy farther to the rt (east) of Truly in this photo Bell photo - what do you think about him?



As for the "sliver" of suit on Campbell - I guess i imagined that to be his dark tie or a scarf hanging down the middle. If that's a sliver of his suit .... what is all that white stuff? Is there someone standing there in white that makes it look like he has a white or lt. shirt or jacket on? . I'm lost on the sliver part....

[...]\

Wiegman - Truly Group:

Linda,

Great work!

One observation I'd like to make regarding the big guy standing next to Truly whom we've tentatively identified as Ochus V. Campbell -- He appears to be wearing a coat and tie.

I believe that he is Campbell and that he may well be the same man in Couch / Darnell who sidesteps out of the way for Baker and motions him up the steps with his left arm.

Keep up the good work!

--Tommy

Thank you, Tommy!!

And thanks for clarifying that about Ochus V. Campbell! I had sort of wondered if he had a tie on because in that side view above it looks like there's something dark going down the middle of his chest - like a tie.

But i have one question... The guy above appears to have on a white shirt (or white or light jacket) compared to his pants which are definitely darker. Whereas....I just looked at my Darnell zip file again...and the guy at the base of the Steps waving people into the TSBD appears to have on a dark suit - with the jacket the same dark shade as his pants. How do you square that?

Whereas, the big lumbering guy I originally thought might be OV Campbell in Darnell, (and up till now we had been designating as Campbell), does have on a short - waist length - jacket which in Darnell is darker than the guy's in Wiegman, but definitely lighter than his pants. And that guy also turn s and walks toward the Depository. While it make sense that Campbell could be the waving guy at the base of the steps (acting like he owns the place) I'm not sure i can agree with it being Campbell because of that discrepancy.

What do you say? Anyone else have any thoughts about the Campbell ID or who "Waving Man" might be if he's? not Campbell?

And also... if "Big Lumbering Guy" is not Campbell - who is he? He is definitely walking bk toward the steps. Why would he go toward the steps if he doesn't work there? And if he does work there who might he be?

Here are some more graphics pointing out Judy Johnson in the "Truly group" - she's the very short, petite woman, turned sideways looking West down Elm, in front of, and mostly obscuring, Carolyn Arnold. She has on a 3/4 length coat and a white scarf. Up until now, I had coined and was using the term "Scarf Girl" for her because of her light colored scarf.



And another one - i think i found her in this Allen photo (or maybe it's Murray? I always get those 2 mixed up in my mind!). She's the only one i've seen in a coat or jacket this length - and with the scarf on, i'm not 100% sure on this because it appears her skirt is plaid in Allen, but solid in Wiegman. They're both very blurry so, it's possible the "plaid" - or the lack of plaid - is a distortion. Sure would like to have clearer copies!




Addendum: Btw...see the woman in the the middle of the Allen photo with dark hair in the dark coat with the big fur collar? I've seen her in another Allen or Murray photo down in this general vicinity of DP...but on the N. side of the Elm standing on the edge of a crowd of people looking into it. I think the 2 are the same woman. No one else has a fur collar like that! But she is ALSO a TSBD employee, because she is in the Allen photo of the group of 4 ladies departing the Depository (to go home) - the photo that has Madie Reese in the doorway, with Lupe Whitaker in front of her and 2 more in front of her going down the steps. "Fur Collar Lady" is in the front of those 4, carrying her coat. That photo is here in this thread. I wonder who she is?

"Keeping the hands of all of Kennedy's enemies clean."

Ok.

In the summer of 1963, Oswald was at Guy Bannister's office doing leafleting on his phony Fair Play for Cuba Committee, of which he was the only member in all of New Orleans. When Banister, who hated Kennedy, found out about Oswald printing his address on this leafleting material, he was aghast. (Destiny Betrayed, second edition, p. 111)

That summer, James Arthus, the custodian at the Camp Street address who covered up for Bannister, suggested to Guy that they send a dead rat to the White House. (ibid, p. 116)

David Ferrie, who Oswald was also seen with that summer, made speeches against Kennedy for his alleged mishandling of the Bay of Pigs. Bannister tried to cover this up for his pal Dave. (ibid, p. 115)

Clay Shaw, also seen with Oswald that summer, offered to pay a gubernatorial candidate to harangue JFK in order for him to visit New Orleans. (ibid, p. 217)

The anti-FPCC campaign run out of the CIA was co helmed by David Phillips, a man who made several anti-Kennedy remarks, and then was seen with Oswald in Dallas. (ibid, p. 158) Phillips then told numerous lies about Oswald being in Mexico City before confessing later that there would be no evidence linking Oswald with the Soviet Embassy. Before he died, Phillips weepingly admitted to his brother he had been in Dallas the day Kennedy was killed. (ibid, pgs. 354, 363, 364)

Allen Dulles used to joke about how his good friend Mary Bancroft was the best friend of Michael Paine's mother, where Oswald stayed in Dallas when he returned from New Orleans. (ibid, pgs. 197-98) Dulles, while on the WC, then conspired with the FBI on how to keep secret any Oswald ties to the intelligence community.

This was fairly easy to do. Why? Because the man who ended up the main liaison to the WC for the CIA was James Angleton, who actually carried Dulles' cremated ashes at his funeral. But beyond that, it was Angleton who had control of the Oswald files at the CIA. When news of Oswald's defection came in from Russia, it was filed properly at FBI and ONI but not at CIA. At CIA it did not go to Soviet Russia division, it went to CI SIG, Angleton's mole hunting group. (ibid, pgs. 141-42) Further, no 201 file was opened by Angleton until a year after the defection, a fact that no on in the CIA, including Helms could explain.

But yet Angleton did have Oswald on the very small HT LINGUAL mail intercept program. Let's see, tens of thousands of people had 201 files opened up on them, but yet only 300 were in the mail intercept program. (ibid, pgs. 142-44) Kind of weird status for Oswald with Angleton, eh?

Now, you will not see one word about any of this in the WR. Not a word about Guy Bannister, Ferrie, or Shaw. Not a word about the associations of Ruth and Michael Paine with anyone at all. Incredibly, in 19,000 pages the name of David Phillips does not appear. Even though the indications are Phillips was tracking Oswald from New Orleans, to MC to Dallas that summer and fall. Not a word about the CIA's anti FPCC program is in the WR. And finally there is not a word about the CIA directing George DeMohrenschildt to befriend Oswald when he returned from Russia. (ibid, p. 194)

As the late Sen. Richard Schweiker once said, Oswald had the fingerprints of intelligence all over him. And these prints should have set an iinvestigatory trail to a conspiracy.

It was the function of the WC to erase that trail. And with Allen Dulles on board, they did.

See what happens to you when you take Jean Davison seriously? http://www.ctka.net/2014_reviews/Davison%20review.html

Today, the life and character of Oswald are an absolute loser for the other side. They should not touch it at all.

BAMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ......... ........

Nobody can sum it up quite like DiEugenio!

P.S. I liked your article on Davison and Oswald's language acquisition too! Bravo! Keep up the good work!

Darn! I see my photos/graphics on Imgur above have disappeared again! I found one like this the other night in another thread and figured out what happened. I had accidentally deleted files - or an entire folder of files, on Imgur (that site is GREAT to view photos on but not user friendly for the uploader!) Then when i uploaded them again, all the URL's for the images had changed of course! So they disappeared here. I relinked that photo i found and will do so for the ones above asap...i'm i the middle of something else...which is how i ended up on this thread and saw that above.

And could everyone do me a favor? If you come across any of my IMGUR photo files that have disappeared and been replaced by that black Imgur box, like above, saying the photo no longer exists or can't be found... please let me know via a pvt msg so i can relink them! Thanks!

Linda,

Let Dustin know that the EF actually IS accepting new members.There is a procedure he must follow, and some requirements [photo avatar, for one] which must be met. The information is in an announcement near the top of the page.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showannouncement=2&f=126

Thanks! Will do, Mark! I knew they accepted me last yr after membership opened up, but i just figured when he said that that they had closed membership again.

Oswald was PM therefore PM was a man.

That's all there is to the so-called gender issue.

Thank you! Enough said! It's a distraction and waste of time to continue debating this issue. Moreover, it's a diversion from advancing more important work on PM (and other JFK assassination issues), IMO!

Tommy said:

Linda,

Where does Krystinak say Sooy was ONI?

BTW, I don't think James Richards independently said Sooy was ONI -- he asked if anybody knew about Sooy and Greg Parker replied that Sooy was ONI, which evidently was good enough for James.

Keep up the good work!

--Tommy

PS I would wager that that Chevy coupe was Sooy's car, for two reason's:

1 ) It looks like it it's in very good, clean condition, as would be expected if it was owned by a navy captain and former aviator.

2 ) Generally speaking, older people (like Sooy who was 60 years old in 1963) like to keep an older car (like this one) with which they are familiar and comfortable.

Hi Tommy!

Thanks for the clarification about who said what. Ok, maybe James didn't "state" Sooy was ONI, but as you said, Greg did, and James agreed with his assessment, which, my feeling is, is tantamount to him "saying" Sooy was ONI, I'm guessing Greg did some digging to find out and I don't doubt him and neither did James. And, i think you misread, I never said that Krystinik said, Sooy was ONI. I said Greg Parker and and James Richards did. Besides do spooks point out other spooks?! I think that's against protocol, isn't it?

When i was researching Sooy over a year ago when i first heard of him via James, in a FB JFK group, I remember reading in a book online somewhere that when Sooy was either in Panama or Trinidad (or both) one of his jobs was to select the ONI intelligence operatives for that entire region (can't remember what the region included - if it was the Caribbean or South American and the Caribbean. I swore I bookmarked that but now i can't find it. Probably filed it in the wrong folder.). At any rate, i think to pick ONI spooks one would probably have to be the head ONI spook...no? I also would have a hard time imagining the Navy would set up anyone over a Naval Air Station, let alone 3 of them - one criticically involved in nuclear/ballistic missiles (Trinidad) during the height of the cold war - without them being ONI. It's just not plausible, And Sooy seems to have been not only a friend to Krystinik but an older mentor (he was almost 30 years older) - I'm guessing it had a lot to do with being ONI.

Those are great thoughts about the coup, Tommy! I agree - it looks like it was very well cared for. Probably his. Plus the way it was pulled there crooked - sort of like he knew he was a bigwig who could park however he liked and no one would bother him. If it were a common person, the DPD would have had him move his car or at least park it neatly along the sidewalk.

Continued due to the (ever irritating) image limit:

One last photo of Sooy and Krystinik together - again credit to James Richards who originally posted it in another thread here about Krystinik & Sooy.

I've also recently done a bunch of genealogical work on him and others and have come up with some great yearbook photos - so I will post those here too, even though this thread is about Sooy. The 2 go together.... like... helicopters and Vietnam!

ou


These are all photos of Raymond Franklin "Frank" Krystinik (b. 1932), except for a couple of photos of his younger brother, John "Richard", ( b. 1938) who attended Texas A&M at the same time and is a blonde version of Frank. He also seems to have been studying aeronautical engineering. I'm not sure if he worked at Bell after graduation, with his brother, but I wouldn't doubt it) - those became happy, windfall years for Bell. With JFK out of the way, and his plan for peace - NSAM 263 trashed (with even memories of it buried by Mockingbird journos & "historians") - Bell, Brown & Root, Boeing, and Lockheed-Martin etc...raked in billions in the blood $$$ of Vietnam, and that constant state of warfare persists 52 years later. Bell sold thousands and thousands of Huey helicopters - the iconic symbol of an American quagmire.

Here's Sooy's Obit (credit to James Richards. I think James also posted it several years ago in another Sooy/Krystinak thread here but it and several other photos in that thread have since become delinked). In his obit he states he was parked by the TSBD and watched the motorcade from his car:

Here is some general biographic information i've found in doing some genealogical research on him:

USN Capt. David A. Sooy, served in the Navy in the 1930's and before, and during, WWII in the Pacific. Two researchers, James Richards and Greg Parker have stated he was ONI - as was his good friend Raymond Franklin "Frank" Krystinik - who was officially in the USN '52-'54. Krystinik worked at Bell Helicopter and was good friends with Michael Paine. (Parker is a meticulous JFK researcher who has authored 2 books of a trilogy (the third forthcoming) on Oswald: "Lee Harvey Oswald's Cold War: Why the Kennedy Assassination Should Be Reinvestigated". He also first pointed out Prayerman ~13 yrs ago, whom Sean Murphy picked up about 5 or 6 years ago and so brilliantly fleshed out). Sooy was also the commander of several Naval Air Stations: Dallas, Bilbao Panama, and Chaguaramas, Trinidad (T&T), after which he retired in July 1960 according to his military records. He then moved back to Dallas, divorced his first wife and remarried the Cmdr of the Waves Reserve Training Unit in Dallas in Aug. '1963. Later they moved back to California where he died in 1995 and is buried at a military cemetery (findagrave memorial).

Sooy was born in Chicago in 1903, but the 1910 census, shows him living with his mother and father in Columbus, Indiana (between Indy and Louisville) as a child, where his father, Oliver, was an insurance salesman for the Prudential Ins. Co., and later a minister (there's a joke there somewhere. ). However, while he was still a child, his family moved to Shelbyville (near Indy) and Indianapolis.



As a young man he moved to California where he joined the Navy and met and married his first wife. According to his obituary he witnessed the JFK assassination while parked in his car by the Texas School Book Depository:

"When President John F.Kennedy was fatally shot in Dallas in November 1963, Capt. Sooy was sitting in his car, waiting for the presidential motorcade to pass the school depository."

On July 21, 1954, he became the Cmdr. of the Naval Air Station, Dallas - until 1956 when he was transferred to command the Naval Air Station in Bilboa, Panama for about a year, before being transferred again to command the Naval Base in Chaguaramas, Trinidad W.I. (about 5 mi. from the capital, Port of Spain) in 1957.

Apr. 3, 1955 clipping from one of the DFW local papers.

(Hmmm...I wonder if Cmdr, T.H. Bookout, is any relation to Dallas FBI agent, James W. Bookout, who was in on Oswald's interrogation?)

In Trinidad he was in charge during the base's post-WWII scaling back period. According to Wikipedia:

"The entire Chaguaramas peninsula was leased to the United States in 1940 for the construction of a naval base under the Destroyers for Bases Agreement.

"The base was also used during the early 1960s as a BMEWS (ballistic missile) early warning radar site, as well as serving as a missile tracking site on the U.S. Air Force Eastern Test Range.

"The base was scaled back in 1956 and the area was returned to Trinidad and Tobago control in 1963."

He retired from the Navy there in July 1960 according to his military records.

**

The Grand Prairie Texan, published an article on July 20, 1954, the day before he took charge of the Dallas Naval Air Station, which included an extensive military bio of Capt. Sooy, up to that date, :

<quote on>

Sooy Taking AS Command Wednesday

Capt. David A. Sooy, USN, is to relieve Comdr. Jack A. Francis of command of the Naval Air Station here at a formal ceremony tomorrow morning, The Grand Prairie Texan learned today.

Captain Sooy will be the permanent commander, succeeding Capt. Stanley C. Strong, USN, who was detached in June to assume command of the USS Tarawa.

During the period since Captain Strong left, Commander Francis has been acting commanding officer. He will assume the duties of executive officer of the NAS when Captain Sooy officially takes command.

A native of Chicago, Captain Sooy was born Nov. 5, 1903. He was first commissioned in the U. S. Naval Reserve Sept. 1, 1931, as an ensign. After two stays of inactive duty in the 1930s, Captain Sooy was recalled in 1938 as an instructor at NAS, Pensacola, Fla.

In April, 1941, he was aboard the USS Saratoga when the United States entered World War II. Captain Sooy took part in fighting in the Solomons until he was detached and ordered to NAS, San Diego, Calif. During the last few months of the war, he was executive officer of the USS Kasaan Bay, and took part in anti-submarine operations around the Marshall-Gilbert Islands, the Marianas mid Philippine Sea.

He attended the General UNA School [sic - this should read USNWC, the US Naval War College, in Newport RI; not the U(S)NA, US Naval Academy, which is in Annapolis], Newport, R. I. in 1946 and 1947, and later served as officer in charge of Tactical Air Control Squadron Three.

January, 1949, he joined the staff of the commander, Amphibious Training Command, U. S Pacific Fleet, with headquarters at Coronado, Calif. He became head of the technical section, Civil Aviation Liaison Branch, office of the deputy chief of Naval Operations (Air) in Washington in August, 1950. A year ago [1953] he reported as executive officer of the Naval Air Station, Kwajalein, Marshall Islands, where he was serving when ordered to the NAS here.

Captain Sooy holds the American defense service medal, Asiatic-Pacific Campaign medal, American campaign medal, World War II victory medal and national defense service medal. He is married to the former Josephine Zillah Moore of San Jose, Calif, They have one daughter, Chandra Lou. [b. Feb.6 1933, Los Angeles].

<end quote>

Here is a crystal clear triple photo of the coup parked at the corner of Elm & Houston:

And here's a nice photo i found of the traffic Island and stoplight where Truly#1 (NOT Truly) was standing. In it we can see what a small space it is based upon how few people are standing on it, and it's pretty apparent that QM-Man was probably not standing ON the island - but to the left of it (as seen in Altgens6) in the Elm Extension; or on the concrete sidewalk area east of it - possibly even east of the real Truly Group (Truly#2).

Here's another great view of the front of the TSBD and this odd little intersection. We can see how small it is in actuality, and where he could have parked - either on Houston or the Elm Ext. And it gives us an idea of where the Truly group was and where Sooy could have been north & east of the traffic Island - and beyond the Truly group and the TSBD. doorway. Also It helps show why some of the people explained they were "out in the street" when they were standing in front of the steps - the sidewalk in front of the steps quickly "merges" with the Elm Ext and Elm St.

Here is a photo - a still from the Hughes film - that Denis Morrisette posted. He pointed out the man on the left of the TSBD doorway and wondered if it was a reporter (not sure which reporter he had in mind). But I believe it could be Capt. David Sooy - same grey hat with black band. Same black suit with white shirt collar sticking up.

In the DCA Film (posted above) when we first see this gentleman he is directly in front of the TSBD steps - not that many feet in front of them - and appears to be coming straight out from the steps toward the camera and viewers. So, had he been on the steps? Is this him on the steps only seconds or minutes earlier? Had he been in the bldg? He appears to be talking to the DPD officer (Barnett?), as the Hughes and Martin films show. Is he attempting to enter the bldg? Or talking to him to get - or provide - information about things?

Here is an excellent side-by-side double Animated GIF of this same scene - with this sequence captured by the clearer Martin film, on the left; and the same sequence captured in the Hughes film on the right (all from Robin Unger's Martin Gallery - what would we do without him! ).:

\

And here's a clearer and larger (though darker) version of just the Martin Anim Gif i just found. It also includes just a second of his filming of Chas. Brehm (also credit Unger):

In the clearer Martin sequence on the left, at one point, one can see his aged, thin, deeply-lined face as he turns his head to toward the viewer. IMO, it is Sooy - the very same man as captured in the DCA Film, seemingly walking away from the steps.

Here is a nice little graphic someone else put together that, I think Tommy found, and re-posted in the Truly thread. I have edited it, added a couple of clearer versions of the photos, and changed it up to demonstrate the linkage between these images whom i believe are ALL Sooy. (Thanks to whomever first created it - it was a good template! )

Too bad his good friends, Frank Krystinik (ONI) and Michael Paine couldn't join him!

Alas, they were sequestered deep inside their Bell Helicopter Laboratory at that very moment....allegedly....listening to live radio reports of the assassination and the Tippit shooting, and brewing up some very thick, steamy B.S. in a beaker somewhere. But, at the same time, keeping their attention focused on the radio reports, until Michael, allegedly, upon hearing about the Tippit shooting, hopped in his car and drove "home" to Ruth's at 3pm (where she was no doubt innocently stirring her own beakers of B.S. in her little house-wifey kitchen)!

For some entertainment... read Paine and Krystinik's Warren Commission Testimonies. Paine starts off nervously wandering about, but later when he's talking about the TSBD and if he knows what and where it is (among other things) he devolves into numerous "grammar meltdowns", I like to call them, worthy of the Buell Frazier Grammar Meltdown Award in Mendacity! A head-scratching, grammar word-salad that makes you say to yourself: "something is not right here". Indeed. Something was not right and I will be exploring that in upcoming posts.:


Mr. LIEBELER - Where were you on the morning of November 22, 1963?

Mr. PAINE - I was having, at the time of the assassination I was at work, of course, but at the time of the assassination I was in the cafeteria associated with the bowling alley having lunch.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who was with you?
Mr. PAINE - A student, a co-op student called Dave Noel happened to be with me. We happened to be talking about the character of assassins at that lunch-time, of all things.
Mr. LIEBELER - Prior to the time you heard of the assassination?
Mr. PAINE - That is right. When we first sat down at the meal we were discussing it, beside the point, except unless you believe in extrasensory perception, but we happened to just--we didn't have enough historical knowledge to explore it, but I just raised the question and tried to pursue it, and then dropped it, and then a waitress came and said the President had been shot, and I thought she was cracking a nasty joke, and went over to a cluster of people listening around a transistor set, and heard there was some commotion of this sort from the tone of the voice of the transistor set, and we went back to the lab where there is a good radio, and followed the news from there.
When it was mentioned, the Texas School Book Depository Building was mentioned, then I told Frank Krystinik that that was where Lee Oswald worked, and then in a few minutes he came back and said, he asked me, didn't I think I had better call the FBI and tell them....

Here's a view of the Elm Ext. showing the No Parking Sign, which the QM-Man is standing to the left of (ie north of) and beyond. This image is from Robin Unger's gallery - i have annotated it to point things out:

From MackWhite.com:

Yesterday, in Sunday morning's Austin American-Statesman, I read a book review of When the News Went Live: Dallas 1963, a memoir by four Dallas journalists-George Phenix, Bob Huffaker, Bill Mercer, and Wes Wise-who covered the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. It sounds like an interesting book. During the course of that memorable weekend in 1963, one of the men spoke with Ruby in Dealey Plaza the day after the killing, another interviewed Oswald's mother, another was present when Ruby killed Oswald, and so on. And yet, if you are looking for substantive information about the assassination, you are not likely to find it in this book. The review states: "From the get-go, the authors declare themselves 'weary of conspiracy theories.'"

It is not surprising that they should be so averse to conspiracy "theories," for had they embraced such "theories" in their coverage of the assassination they might have ended up like Jim Koethe and Bill Hunter.

Koethe was a reporter for the Dallas Times Herald; Hunter for the Long Beach Press Telegram. On the night of November 24, 1963, the two ventured to Jack Ruby's apartment where they interviewed Ruby's roommate George Senator and Ruby's attorney Tom Howard. Less than a year later, Howard, Koethe, and Hunter were all dead. Howard died of an apparent heart attack. Hunter was shot in the head by a Long Beach police officer who, after repeatedly changing his story about the killing, was eventually convicted of manslaughter and given a probated sentence. Koethe was killed a few months later in his Dallas apartment when he emerged from the shower to be karate-chopped in the neck by an unknown assailant.

Koethe and Hunter's deaths no doubt served as an example to other journalists, and may have been a factor in the large number of Dallas journalists who left Dallas and found other professions in the wake of the Kennedy assassination.

Phenix, Hufaker, Mercer, and Wise, however, were not part of this exodus. Their coverage of the assassination turned out to be a boon to their careers, rather than an impediment. Not only did they remain in the profession, they prospered. Phenix went on to co-found the Texas Weekly; Hufaker became an editor at Texas Monthly; Mercer became a prominent sportscaster; and Wise served as Mayor of Dallas in the 1970s.

These men, then, owe much to the assassination-it got them where they are today. But they sure wouldn't have gotten there if they had embraced those wearisome conspiracy "theories."

Bill, Huffaker was an army reservist based at Fort Hood. That, coupled with his career in the media may indicate he was working military intelligence. His name was appears on a DPD list of people believed to hold information on a Ruby-Oswald connection. Others on the list included Pixie Lynn and George Butler. You can find what PL and GB had in that regard (PL supposedly told a barman that Ruby ad Oswald were attending gay parties - GB claimed he had info indicating Oswald was Ruby's bastard son) but all you'll ffind when looking for what Huffaker had to say is a report saying THAT report was already filed.

To Tony: great work.

Interesting, about Huffaker, Greg! Just the other day i read, i think in an old Wiesberg doc. Huffaker watched the original Zapruder film with Dan Rather! I made note of that! Someone needs to question him about that and pin him down about Dan Rather's lie that JFK's head "fell forward".

...

I remember telling you guys *I* wrote it up - I was quite happy with my hard work - and that I had used some of the photos you guys had found of her found before I even joined that thread (and I also used photos I found of her grave marker and wedding announcement) to make her memorial. So yes, that's my handiwork.

Later! Time for lunch and finishing and posting my little project...

Linda,

if I had known it was yours at first, I would have not used the phrase "taking liberties" and I doubt Robert would have either, my sincere apologies to you. The way you present your work here speaks for itself and I thank you for continuing to share it and your thoughts with us.

I knew reasonably well how you made the connections to that being Calvary on film but I suppose it had something to do with it being presented on a website outside of the research community as fact that ever so slightly "irked" us.

Thank you, Clive! Apology definitely accepted! Would you like for me to make some changes to that part of the findagrave memorial? Maybe put in some conditional qualifiers like "it looks like" or "it's thought to be" or something along those lines?

Hi Tommy! Sorry I didn't make it clear. I'm referring to this guy in the middle of the landing or 1st step (Molina said he was on the landing - but must've moved around a bit into the sunlight).

Also, I don't think I made it clear above - in case you didn't know, that dark image I posted - that's a still of TLR Cameraman #2 from the TOWNER film. Here you go...Darnell.:

Linda,

I agree about the Molina figure, but I still think he's wearing a coat, tie, and hat.

Question: Where is Shelley?

Question: Is that Lovelady rising up on the far left, or a woman wearing a light-colored scarf on her head and climbing the steps?

--Tommy

I do see in this version of Darnell that has a lot of lavender/purple in it "Molina" looks like he has on a dark coat. AND I can barely make out what may be a tie knot. But i'm not sure if he really has on a coat or it's just the shading of this photo. In Altgens 6 Molina (the guy with his arms over his head) doesn't look like he has a coat on - just a white shirt. The guy to the left of him (his rt) is wearing a black suit and tie and white shirt. Or are you saying that that suit and tie man in Altgens 6 is Molina and and white shirt man is Shelley?

Very interesting Tommy...To (try to) disprove you about the jacket/suit coat i went to my (fairly clear) Darnell Zip file and clicked thru the whole sequence and - low and behold - i do see that Molina seems to have on a gray suit jacket with the front open and a white shirt in the middle in each and every frame he's visible (it could be some color besides "gray" of course) but the point is we can see a darker jacket contrasted with a white shirt. You are right! My bad! Good work, my man!

Now...at the same time we can see Lovelady and Shelley trotting down the Elm Extension together. (To me in the clear anim. gif of them - i think Gerda made, didn't she? - those 2 are definitely Shelley and Lovelady. The hair, the build, dress etc... looks like them - and "Shelley" has on a black suit jacket it appears. So the guy you and I are calling "Molina" left behind on the steps next to Frazier and PM must definitely be Molina.

So when did Altgens 6 Molina put on a jacket? Had he taken it off and laid it on the landing behind him? in Altgens6 Molina I can only see him wearing a white shirt w/ rolled up shirt sleeves. And btw... i don't think Altgens 6 Molina OR Darnell Molina has on a hat. We don't see a hat on his head as he's taking photos with his TLR - just his dark hair with a gray or salt & pepper rim. What are your ideas on this? Are you thinking he put on a suit jacket and hat (which he had laid aside during the motorcade) in time to be filmed with them on in Darnell? (I suppose that's possible). Are you thinking he put it back on planning to soon make an exit (like LHO did)? Or just to return to the office? Good find on the "gray" jacket! I await your ideas (and those of others) on this....

I doubt we would sell it.

There are probably a lot of posts in that thread which are distracting. Has anyone considered writing a paper that would capture the basic information in the thread? With a paper, everything would consolidated, and referenced.

As for the thread pinning, we use the upper part of the Forum for business,and TOU, etc,. more or less, because this is the most visited area in the forum. While I understand your frustration, we have to put our information where it can be seen.

But we may be able to do something with a research paper.

Understood, Kathy. But has anyone considered having an 2 separate pinned areas A & B, for example? One pinning important business, and the 2nd one pinning important threads? Someone at ROKC (can't remember who? Barto?) just wrote an excellent PM synopsis which is posted and pinned there in the JFK section. Also Stan, i think it is, is writing a book about PM! Whoooohooo! And others are working on an undiluted documentary - or planning one.

Ok, guys, here's a side by side comparison to highlight, IMO, why the "Calvery" candidate in the Red Skirt + White Blouse. seen in Willis 5, can still be a good candidate for the real Gloria Jean Little Calvery. What do you think? The face does it for me - not to mention, I can faintly see those cat eye glasses!

Too bad we don't have video or photos of her beginning her sprint from this point... do we? Bell? etc?? I'll have to look later...

Hi Guys! I Haven't checked this thread for a couple of days - been busy. During that time one of the graphics I made was using cropped blowup of Willis annotating the crowd correctly along the N. Elm Sidewalk - from Millican (const. helmet man) down to Jean Newman. It doesn't take in Hicks, Reed etc... But it does take in the woman next to Millican's right, who the last time I checked here people were thinking may be a good candidate for Gloria Calvery (the running woman) since she has on a red skirt and white blouse. Well, I see you are not keen on her now...but I'm posting It anyway because, d*mn, I worked hard on it! And btw, I reused this cropped Willis photo someone else had posted on this thread or another one.... and it already had Betty Thornton circled in black. I couldn't fix that so it remains. I'm not trying to highlight her.

If you are now looking for a candidate that looks more like the chubby Calvery seen in her Summer '63 wedding photos, then I do have a possible candidate for you, whom you can't see in this annotated photo (she's the "unknown woman in black" - but can clearly be seen from behind in Zapruder. She's the only "unknown" person in the line of spectators besides "Calvery" (in the red skirt). She does have Gloria Jean Little Calvery's body habitus.

Now, if we go with that - someone entirely different - well, that opens a whole other can of worms!: Who, then, is the skinny "running woman"? Why would Shelley say he talked to Calvery at the island when running woman is not Calvery? And others said they saw Calvery run up behind Baker too didn't they? The only possible "rationale" I can think of for such lies - is something decidedly un-kosher. For example we know Shelley and Calvery (or her husband) were friends - he was their best man. So maybe he was planning on using her to pad his alibis? Maybe even unbeknownst to her - maybe he figured he could later that day take her aside and pressure her into saying something that worked for him like - "ya, I talked to him on the island x seconds/minutes after the shots". At anyrate...oy... that's a mindf*ck I am too tired to even think about right now! LOL! So here's my graphic. And btw, when I look really closely I can faintly see some glasses on the red skirt woman - they have an oval shape that could pass for cat-eye glasses. Her face also looks chubby and round to me - like Gloria Jean Little Calvery's face in the summer of '63.

Hi Tommy! Sorry I didn't make it clear. I'm referring to this guy in the middle of the landing or 1st step (Molina said he was on the landing - but must've moved around a bit into the sunlight).

Also, I don't think I made it clear above - in case you didn't know, that dark image I posted - that's a still of TLR Cameraman #2 from the TOWNER film. Here you go...Darnell.: