Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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Posts posted by Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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"I feel very confident - handkerchief or no handkerchief in Truly#1's breast pocket - that Truly#1 on the left, is not Truly because his face and cheeks are very chubby and it looks like he has sort of a pug nose."
So then...I suppose you're saying that apparently Truly #1 truly isn't Truly.
OK...back to seriousness, folks.
Hi Mark,
I'm not sure what you mean by this? Are you disagreeing with Tommy's supposition and my support of it, and making fun of my post as not being serious? That's what it seems like.
To recap, in case you are misunderstanding who "Truly#1" and "Truly#2" are:
"Truly#1" is the term Tommy coined the other night for the man in the left-hand grouping, on the island by the stoplight, whom many - including myself, until the other night - have long posited was Truly.
A couple of pages back, Tommy posited (for the first time anywhere, that i'm aware of) that there is another grouping with Truly, Campbell and Reid (and others around and in front of them) seen at the very far right of the final Weigman frame capturing the TSBD doorway and steps. He called that that "Truly," in the far right-hand grouping, "Truly#2".
In the intervening posts, Tommy (and I) have gone on to point out how the location of the grouping on the far right, lines up with the affidavits, testimonies and statements of Truly, Campbell and Reid about where they were standing.
I then went on to find and post a very clear screen capture showing a clear rendering of the face of "Truly#1" and the left-hand grouping - it was from a Wiegman slide of Jack White's that Bjorn and Robin Unger had kindly posted over in the PM thread.
This very clear photo shows "Truly#1" to have a round, chubby face and cheeks and a rather fat, puggish nose and he's wearing very large sunglasses - which are not the shape of the Roy Truly's regular glasses. Thus, it's conclusive that "Truly#1" cannot be the REAL Roy Truly!:
So, I indeed agree with Tommy's supposition, and have put forward corroborative photographic evidence, that Truly#1 cannot be Roy Truly, and Truly#2 in the in the grouping on the right must be the actual RoyTruly.
It all seems very serious and logical to me - and i'll speak for Tommy here too.
Of course, if you, or anyone else, can put forward a cogent argument refuting any of these things, i have a very open mind and am quite willing to listen to opposing viewpoints and arguments and take them into consideration. I am all about the truth coming out and am quite willing to accept new and contradictory information, even if it would lead to rejecting these points. I am also willing to reject such information if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
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Tommy et al,
I just figured out how to use "google photos" so I can upload my photos there, then post links to them here.......hopefully..... So here goes....
Here's Sooy's Obit (credit to James Richards!): https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DLi-SwefmiEAX6gKXbU47Jxws_6r1oZVvnf9S3Mtk64=w510-h663-no(Well, cr*p! just don't get it...I tried clicking on the "image" icon above, inserting the URL and clicking "ok," but it only inserts a little square "dead gif" icon. So, after several attempts just posted the link! Sorry about that! If someone could tell me how to get this to work so things show up, I'd appreciate it.)
Here is a screen capture from the DCA film where I first found "Sooy" at 6:15 . When the camera pans over to him - this is how we see first him: walking toward the camera from the direction of the TSBD steps. My first thought was.... where the heck had he just come from? And had he been inside the TSBD "helping" Truly et al with the investigation?!: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOjESn6eOyJ_obH2l6_Rsg3mqbOHxk_5eh7Q6kI
This is a comparison I made from a late 50's Navy photo of Sooy and multiple screen captures of "Sooy" from the DCA film. NB: both of them seem to have big ears as well. : https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOrFUzlvd5QE4LSgAMV2EUq5kMLgOGKdLTOhjRxHere's a 40's or 50's photo of a much younger Sooy and his good buddy Frank Krystinik - also ONI. Krystinik worked at Bell Helicopter and was a good friend of Michael Paine's. I think I also got this from James Richards: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipOSWx40bJcFiWLEy2O0a1t8RTVwBpkI_oCD3RSq
This is a crop I made of the guy seen over the windshield of the Queen Mary in Altgen's 6. I think he looks a lot like "Sooy". A little heftier but it could be the lighting on Sooy's cheekbones in the DCA film, vs this guy whose is not facing southward into the sun and looks a little fuller.:
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipMIX_BgVJtdkwp30hYlstkPEq40Zmqyc8dN6gcJ
And this is a guy I cropped from a Skaggs photo - he's right in front of the TSBD and looks a great deal like "Sooy" (and the Queen Mary guy), but he looks heftier so I think he may be different guy - unless it's just lighting? Also his hat looks black vs "Sooy's" hat is gray w/a black band. Whoever he is he's a really big guy and looks authoritative to me - he's got an intelligence vibe. I wonder who he is? Anyone know?: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipPq8y_vuAHKc-pa2p-_h0EUqTAZSJjKK-mNmLOM
Finally, we don't know where Sooy parked - my feeling was probably in the Elm Extension he might have had the best view, but then I found this coup parked on the west side of the TSBD that might be his - but IF he stayed in the car (which I doubt), his view would be blocked by spectators across Houston. I think this screen capture might be from the Cook/Cooper film: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipP8G30f8d8q0Rhb3cWeCKJ9om9vpnFNvXuBHcFN/photo/AF1QipPHWaCp9sxPxGdFiAcNlXhT6_jS9shNdjfhh0fe
Ok... there's some food for thought!
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Thanks, Tommy! And good points about Campbell and Truly sticking together - I agree.
I feel very confident - handkerchief or no handkerchief in Truly#1's breast pocket - that Truly#1 on the left, is not Truly because his face and cheeks are very chubby and it looks like he has sort of a pug nose.
As for the montage you posted directly above with the one photo labeled "Campbell?" - that is not Campbell or Truly#1. Yes, he also has a white handkerchief in his breast pocket and he also has on a white tie like "Truly#1" appears to have - but, IMO, he just doesn't look like the same guy as Truly#1! (I have clearer photos of this this character, but even without them one can see he has a slim, long face and long nose. Unlike chubby-cheeked, pug-nosed Truly#1). Furthermore, I believe he is an entirely different guy...
I worked on this guy a year or so ago after reading a tip posted by James Richards about an ONI guy who was the Chief of the Dallas Naval Air Station, Capt. David Aubrey Sooy. Sooy said he was sitting in his car, parked somewhere near the TSBD waiting for the motorcade to pass by, where he was parked, I'm not sure. The Elm Extension? Or maybe his was the car parked on the western side of the TSBD on Houston? How do we know he was there? Because he died in '95 and it was written right in his obituary - a sort of a claim to fame. It said "he was sitting in his car waiting for the Presidential motorcade to pass the school book depository." Only after I read that obit did I look for and then find him in the Dallas Film Associates reel walking straight toward the camera, right in front of the TSBD. I also think he's the guy we see just above the windshield of the Queen Mary in Altgens6.
After Dallas, he was transferred to Trinidad. It's been a long time since I researched Sooy, but i believe I recall he was put in charge of selecting and supervising the ONI intelligence agents for that entire SA region. This makes his presence around the TSBD even more spooky and nefarious, in my mind.
I am convinced from studying Sooy's photos that this guy is Sooy. It sure as heck looks like him!I find it very suspect that he was there that day. Unfortunately, I have a ton of photos of Sooy and his obituary clipping saved, but they are saved as gifs. This is one of my gripes with this site - apparently one can't upload a photo or file, but must post a URL. I wish they would change that. Here's his gravemarker.
Addendum: Also Truly#1 - if you blow him up - you can see he has on some big-assed sunglasses! "Sooy" does not. He just has on regular glasses that are in fact a different shape than the sunglasses Truly#1 is wearing. -
On the day of the assassination, Oswald's supervisor Bill Shelley gave an affidavit in which he mentioned the name of Gloria Calvery (click to enlarge):
The affidavit leaves no room for ambiguity.
Shelley "ran into" Gloria after leaving the front steps of the building and running "across the street to the corner of the park".
By the time of his and Billy Lovelady's April 7 WC testimony, however, the encounter with Gloria has been mysteriously transplanted to the front steps themselves.
Shelley:
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute
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Mr. BALL - She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Lovelady:
Mr. BALL - Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yeah.
Mr. BALL - When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street.
It couldn't be clearer.
The two men don't run into Gloria out across the street, she now runs up to them and becomes the reason why they leave the steps.
Most bizarrely of all, as we have seen earlier in this thread, both Shelley and Lovelady are now timestamping their departure from the front steps to some 3 minutes after the shooting. Even Ball is taken aback by the extravagance of their over-estimation.
And it in turn yields the wildly implausible timestamp of between 3 and 4 minutes for their looking back from the 'island' and seeing Baker and Truly about to enter the building.
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It's clear that somebody at some point--somebody other than the WC folk--prevailed upon Shelley and Lovelady to delay their departure from the front steps by several minutes.
But why?
I've already suggested two likely reasons:
1. The police were initially admitting that the Baker-Oswald-Truly encounter happened on the front steps just after the assassination. In order to make this story work, the timeline had to be stretched to minutes rather than seconds: Oswald was 'stopped' on his way out of the building some 3-4 minutes after the shooting. He had time to make his descent from the sixth floor.
2. Billy Lovelady needed to be kept on the steps for a little while to help explain away any Oswaldian images that might show up in photos or films of the TSBD front entrance in the immediate assassination aftermath.
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We can I think reasonably offer a third reason why the authorities, in the very early part of the 'investigation', would have wanted to distort the Shelley-Lovelady timeline:
Oswald was still alive.
The prospect of his going to trial was still a real one.
And he, as defendant, was going to make a very damaging claim from the dock:
I was out front with Bill Shelley.
How, if Oswald was the sixth-floor shooter, could he have known where exactly Bill Shelley was at the time of the assassination?
How was the prosecution to explain away his description of Shelley (and others) on the steps?
The intended solution was to shift Oswald's sighting of Shelley to several minutes after the assassination.
The front-entrance Baker incident having been transplanted up to the second-floor lunchroom, Oswald would now be said to have spotted Shelley at the front entrance on his (Oswald's) way out of the building.
To this end, Shelley needed to be kept on the front steps just long enough for this story to be plausible.
Three minutes would do it.
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Shelley's name is not mentioned in the joint Bookhout-Hosty interrogation report, written while Oswald is still alive.
It does however make it into Bookhout's solo report, written after Oswald has been murdered:
"out with Bill Shelley in front" is glossed as a post-lunchroom incident event:
He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly, and thereafter went home. He stated that he left work because, in his opinion, based upon remarks of Bill Shelly, he did not believe that there was going to be anymore work that day due to the confusion in the building.
All that now remains is for Shelley to be asked whether this had ever happened--and for Shelley to answer with an honest 'no'.
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Thus the quadruple switcheroo:
i) Oswald, in the domino room, sees Jarman & Norman come in the back door of the first floor BECOMES Oswald claimed to have eaten his lunch with Jarman & Norman
ii) Oswald claims to have gone up to the second-floor lunchroom to buy a coke shortly before the assassination BECOMES Oswald claimed to have gone up for the coke just after the assassination
iii) Oswald claims to have been eating his lunch and/or drinking the coke out front when the officer came in to the first floor BECOMES Oswald claimed the officer came into the second-floor lunchroom just after he had bought his coke
iv) Oswald names Bill Shelley as one of the people he was out front with at the time of the assassination BECOMES Oswald named Bill Shelley as someone he spoke with out front several minutes after the assassination.
That lying b*stard, Oswald.
We have him (literally) dead to rights.
As you discussed Sean, Shelley and Lovelady waiting for 3 minutes on the steps before leaving is a No Go. S and L are gone before Baker gets to the steps. Pauline Sanders said it took Baker 10 seconds to get there after the last shot. Baker and the WC are within a few seconds of Sanders estimate. We also have Couch and Darnell.
My best estimate for the Calvary/Shelley/Lovelady encounter is within a minute of the last shot.
Recently, in preparing a findagrave memorial for Gloria Jean Little Calvery and some of her ancestors by researching her, her ancestors and old news clippings on a genealogy site, I found her wedding announcement in the July 28, 1963 edition of the Grand Prairie News Texan. It states that Bill Shelley was the best man at Gloria Calvery's wedding, July 19,1963. I posted the wedding announcement which includes their wedding photo on her findagrave page.
Given that Calvery's name was first mentioned by none other than (chronically lying) Shelley in his earliest affidavit, and that it was later discovered that he did not run out to the island where he encountered her, but instead ran down the Elm Extension toward the railyard with Lovelady; and given that we now know Shelley was good friends with Calvery or her husband, or both, I now feel maybe this little "story" of Shelley's should be looked at in a new light.
Just some food for thought:
- Did he mention her name thinking she would somehow cover for his post assassination movements and/or timing?
- Or so he could coerce her into it?
- Or did he say he encountered Calvery, immediately after the shots, out on the island, rather than on the steps as she ran behind Baker, up the steps and past himself - and past Prayer Man - and into the building, in order to protect her? By placing her out at the island, it could give her an alibi if someone else said she ran up the steps and passed by PM/LHO on the landing or in the lobby within seconds after the shots.
- And by changing his story - and the timing - drastically in his WC testimony and stating she came up the steps minutes after the shots - it would also assure a story in which she would not have arrived in time to encounter or see PM.
It's worth pondering.
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Tommy, Since you mentioned Mrs. Reid getting her coat and scarf out of the closet in her office, i just went back and re-read her testimony. I know i've read it in the past but something jumped out at me that hadn't before. Belin asks her what happened after the shots and she reports she "ran" back into the building....then she said something very interesting!:
Mr. Belin. Did you see anything else of people running or doing anything else?
Mrs. REID. No; because I ran into the building. I do not recall seeing anyone in the lobby. I ran up to our office.
This is very telling - and almost identical to Truly's famously memorable, foot-in-mouth FBI statement that when he and Baker rushed into the building "they saw no one there".
Again why report on a negative? Everyone "knew" LHO was in the snipers nest on the 6th floor and not down in the entryway! Obviously, they all saw a special someone in the lobby!Secondly, even if Oswald had not been in the lobby or 1st floor storage closet, we know - at least I know from studying blowups of the PM Darnell photos - that several unknown people can be seen right behind the glass doors, looking out. So there were several people in the lobby that Truly, Baker and Reid would have immediately encountered upon entering, in addition to Oswald. Who were they? I would love to know - because those people also would have seen PM as he entered the lobby, and been feet or inches from him as he was standing on the landing.
Addendum: I just found this clear Cook/Cooper photo of Reid up against the TSBD - she definitely has a coat on! No scarf - but that could always be stuffed in her pocket or purse if she deemed the conditions to be too nice for a scarf.
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Tommy said:
"Now to play a little Devil's Advocate against myself: I don't understand why "my" Reid is not wearing a coat and a head scarf in Wiegman. Somewhere in her testimony she mentions getting them from her office before going downstairs to watch the motorcade, so why isn't she wearing them?"
Tommy said:
"Thanks for reminding me that in Campbell's first statement, (to a newspaper on 11/23), he said that (instead of running down to the Grassy Knoll) he / "we" immediately went inside the TSBD, and found Oswald in a first floor storage room. I'm thinking that if the big guy was Campbell, then his actions in Wiegman suggest that he was telling the truth in his statement to the newspaper. It is interesting that the big guy is one of only two or three men who are walking towards the steps in Darnell. Another one, of course, is the Truly figure who starts walking towards them after Baker has run past him.
"Whoever the big guy is, I think that he and Truly are communicating from a short distance in Darnell / Couch, which could explain why he walks towards Truly and then spins and starts walking towards the TSBD, almost as though Truly told him to get inside."
I totally agree - we see the big guy going toward the steps (and i agree it seems he and Truly were communicating just before the pivot), so he was on his way in and would have gotten there right after Truly or possibly even before! He, like Truly, would have encountered Prayer Man on the landing or in the lobby/1st flr storage closet area. Additionally, Reid is near the steps too - we can't see her pivot and go toward the steps and into the bldg because the camera pans away, but she stated she went in shortly after the shots.
So, I'm guessing when Campbell said in his initial 11/23 NY Herald Tribune quote that "we" encountered LHO in the 1st floor storage closet - "we" included Baker, Truly and Reid. Reid, like Truly, could have been in on it from the get-go with Truly, but i'm guessing not - rather i'm guessing she was coerced by her boss, Truly, to play along by inventing or co-inventing the Oswald with the Coke story. She had a lot to cover up if she saw Oswald in the entry - what better way to take the pressure off herself than by playing along and spouting such a crucial "story".
And...hmmmm...good question about Reid. You're rt...she says that in her WC testimony. Maybe she changed her mind at the last minute after others told her it was "warm" outside? I really don't know. Will have to think about it more...
Here's another point i've always wondered about. Who is the guy in Darnell, at the base of the TSBD steps that waves Baker in? Anyone have any ideas? I know it could be an innocent, helpful act....but it has always looked suspicious to me like maybe he, whoever he is, is in on it.
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Thanks, Tommy! And you're welcome! Bit by bit we are putting it together - teamwork!
As for the "Truly" in the left hand Wiegman trio and his white handkerchief possibly being a hand from his crossed arms, i'm pretty certain you are correct - it's a handkerchief. I was just looking for a clearer version and found on on ROKC (unfortunately, i think EDF is blocking me from posting it here - it says I'm not permitted to post this image extension here - so i had to remove it). Sure looks like a rectangular handkerchief to me. But i put it in my photo editor and played with the contrast, gamma, shadows, highlights etc.. it looked rather rectangular to begin with but with adjusting these variables the crisp edges of a rectangle came out even better. So i really think it's a handkerchief and not a hand.
Just now, as i was continuing to search for the clearest Wiegman frame that included the left hand trio....i came across this post (#868) by Bjørn Gjerde from 24 September 2013 in the Prayer Man thread. In it he also posited that Campbell could be the same big, lumbering guy in Darnell that I just suggested, and he goes on to post 2 graphics - one being from Darnell with the big guy labeled as Campbell - nice, huh?!:
So, by rights, Bjørn should be given credit as the first one to spot him. However, funny thing is, a page later, in post #875, Sean Murphy discounts the possibility and says Campbell is a guy way in back of the left-hand Wiegman trio, and then Bjørn himself agrees with Sean.**
But this is even better! On that same page Bjørn posted this awesomely clear version of Wiegman with "Truly" and the trio on the left. Even with simply blowing it up a little one can clearly see this "Truly" is NOT Truly! A couple of posts below that, Robin Unger posted this double photo of it and states it's a "Jack White Wiegman slide Crop". This man has a chubby face and cheeks, a rather pug nose and sunglasses! I snipped him out and tweaked him even more in my photo editor and it's even more apparent he's NOT Truly! Here's the photo Robin posted (click to enlarge):
So, Tommy, I think this settles it for good! You were correct, the right-hand Wiegman trio of Truly, Campbell and Reid are the real trio!
**Addendum: I was just thinking, sure would be great to have a Jack White slide crop of the right-hand Wiegman trio now! Wonder if Robin Unger would have one?
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Btw... regarding a photo of Campbell... I found this info about him on genealogy site:
- 1924 Graduated from Salem High School, Salem, Fulton Co., Ark.
- 1925-6-7 Draughon's Business College, Springfield, Missouri. Majored in Business & Accounting.
[NB: Draughon's is frequently mispelled "Draughn's" as I discovered in trying to track down this college. It had been mispelled on the genealogy site - i corrected it here. I found Draughon's is now closed, but records are kept at Vatterott College in Springfield, Missouri, for the Springfield Draughon's location only.]
- 1927-28 School Year, School Teacher near Mammoth Springs, Ark.
I tried to track down yearbooks online for these years for all these schools and they are not available to date. If anyone lives near Springfield, MO, Salem, AR or Mammoth Springs, AR could you please see if you could get ahold of yearbooks from those years at the schools in question or at a nearby public library, and find a photo of Campbell? Granted they would be photos of him as a young man (he was born in 1909) - but better than nothing.
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Post deleted - "addendum" added to previous post.
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Hi Tommy! You're welcome!
You are SO RIGHT! I glossed over that part of your post in which you noted that Reid had said they were standing right in front of the steps. So there's that. And then there's your GREAT find on the handkerchief in the breast pocket!
Ok, so i now agree with you entirely that this eliminates the trio on the left in Wiegman! It must be the trio on the right! And btw, i went through all of the statements of Truly, Campbell and Reid. In all of Reid's statements - her DPD affidavit, 2 FBI statements and her WC testimony - she states she was directly in front of the TSBD and in most of them she also mentions she's with Truly and Campbell. Ok, now, let me put forth a new idea that just came to me.
In Darnell it appears we most see everyone rushing over to the island area to get a better view of what had happened down Elm. In fact, we also see "Truly" to the left of the steps turned and looking in that direction before Baker rushes up and passes him, then he rotates back toward the steps. We also see Reid, with her wide, black purse, looking and walking in that direction - split up from Truly. So, what happened to O.V. Campbell after the shots? This is what i would like to address... I've thought about this anew and would like to put forth a new proposal.
In Darnell, there is also a very hefty, very tall man who was initially (prior to the frame below) seen headed in that same direction. In the past i've seen some people refer to him as Dougherty - yes, he's big but i've always disagreed with him being Dougherty due to Dougherty's testimony that he was in the TSBD and no one else said he was out front. Note that this big guy has on a lighter top that appears to be a waist length jacket of some kind (not a suit coat), and darker pants. In this still he's captured with his back to us after he turned and began walking toward the steps. He's in the area between Reid (with her wide, black purse) to his right, and Truly (and Baker) to his left:
I have a very clear version of the Darnell video, frame by frame, i downloaded in a zip file so i can click backward or forward and look at and blow up and study each frame. For a few early frames he is turned sideways, before he turns and walks toward the steps, in those frames i can see he does not have on glasses on.
Now, look at Campbell in the Wiegman trio. He's also huge, has on what could be the same style of waist length jacket which is lighter than his pants. Just like the big guy in Darnell. Now the jacket of the guy in Darnell appears darker than that of the guy in Wiegman but could it just be the lighting? It would make sense to find Campbell in this general area right after the shots, near but separated from, Truly and Reid. (Also if this man is Campbell then, the "Campbell" with black horn rimmed glasses in Denis Morrisette's anim. Martin gif, obviously cannot be Campbell after-all).If I stop the animated Wiegman gif you posted, Tommy (by hitting the ESC key in IE - it doesn't work, btw, in Google Chrome) when Campbell is turned more toward us so his body is all the way back against the edge of the frame, we can see the front area of his pants better and they are much lighter shade than the big guy's pants in Darnell. I posit, it's the same big guy, but the lighting in Wiegman is bleaching out BOTH his pants AND his shirt - thus giving his pants a grey look and his shirt a white look due to the sunlight striking them. Does that make sense? The big guy in Darnell is Campbell - but both his jacket and pants appear darker than they do in Wiegman because of the lighting.
So, if this big guy in Darnell, who turns to walk toward the TSBD, is indeed O.V. Campbell, it would fit in with Campbell's ORIGINAL story about where he went after the shots. However, N.B., his "story" changed rapidly after the 11/23/63 NY Herald Tribune story came out directly quoting Campbell that when he (he actually said "we") went in the TSBD after the shots, he ("we") saw LHO in the 1st floor storage closet in the lobby area! But, soon he was all over the map about where he went afterward and what he personally saw!
This changing account by Campbell is best summed up in the first post in this Googlegroups thread by Donald Willis, "Will the Real O.V. Campbell Please Stand up?" I quote it here in its entirety because it is so important, and i've seen far too many links, and thus their important content, evaporate over time. My emphasis and i also inserted paragraph breaks for easier reading comprehension.:
<quote on>
Texas School Book Depository VP Ochus V. Campbell was all over the
place, literally, in his statements after the assassination. Perhaps
because he knew and said too much to the NY Herald Tribune:
"Shortly after the shooting we raced back into the building. We saw
Oswald in a small storage room on the ground floor." (11/23/63)
Had he stuck to his guns, figuratively, he would have helped absolve
Oswald of any shooting that day--and relegated him to a minor role. a
mere Rosencrantz, simple Distractor of Cops, say, who gave the
shooters time to pack up their gear.But lo & behold an alternate version of Campbell's actions appeared
the same day in the Dallas Mourning News:
"Campbell said he ran toward a grassy knoll west of the building where
he thought the sniper had hidden."
[My note: Unfortunately, Mr. Willis neglects to post the rest of this section of the 11/23/63 DMN article which then goes on to detail the Oswald encounter in the storage room - but not as a direct quote from Campbell. Rather, in an oddly contorted way it seems to indirectly quote him. This appears to be the first deliberate, wiggling attempt by Campbell to begin distancing himself from his initial NYHT direct quote:"He said Truly and an officer ran into the building.
"In a storage room on the first floor, the officer, gun drawn, spotted Oswald. 'Does this man work here?' the officer reportedly asked Truly.
"Truly, who said he had interviewed and hired Oswald a 'couple of months earlier,' reportedly told the policeman that Oswald was a worker." ]
Notice it's not a direct quote here, though, hence carries less weight
than the NYHT version. But. well, if this version were true, then,
no, Campbell could not have been there with Truly & Baker to see
Oswald on the first floor.But apparently the DMN version was not true. The testimony of others,
including Geneva Hine, may have led Campbell to change his tune again,
from "I'm a knoll cowhand" to "Back in the Building Again":
"He observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately
rushed into his building...."
Ah! back to square one? Not quite. The chorus has changed:
"[Campbell] added that he is not personally acquainted with [Oswald] &
has never seen him." (FBI interview of Campbell 11/24/63)Backpedaling 1A, eh? Or, Two Ways of Discounting a First-Floor
Encounter with Oswald. One (DMN): Run fast, in the other direction.
Two (FBI): Run fast in the same direction, but say not just that you
did not see Oswald then & there, but that you *never* saw him. Never
say never....Campbell, guilty with too many explanations.... Oswald, guilty of
being merely a first-floor pawn in the conspiracy....<quote off>
Now let me draw your attention to Campbell's 11/24/63 FBI statement . In it, his account of his actions after the shots seems to match up exactly with that of the big, tall man we see in Darnell, whom i just pointed out as possibly being Campbell (my emphasis):
"...After hearing two more such reports, he realized that must have been rifle shots and since President Kennedy's car had advanced just out of his vision, he went forward a few feet to observe this automobile, inasmuch as he feared that the rifle shots were in connection with an attempt upon President Kennedy's life. He then observed the car bearing Pres. Kennedy to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately rushed into his building without having seen anything unusual from any window of his building..."In the next and final paragraph the FBI agent goes on show Campbell a photo of LHO and reports:
"Mr. Campbell...added that he is not personally acquainted with him and has never seen him..."
So, within a 24 hour period, we have Ochus V. Campbell on 11/23 directly quoted as saying he ("we") personally saw LHO in the 1st floor storage room, and then the very same day an odd, vaguely indirect quote saying Oswald was confronted in the 1st floor storage room by Baker and Truly, and finally, his FBI statement the following day, 11/24, in which Campbell tells the agent he had "never seen him" before.
By the time of Campbell's March 19, 1964 FBI Statement, his story about where he and Truly were standing had also changed. Why the change? In his original 11/24 FBI Statement he had said they "were together stationed about 30 feet in front of" the TSBD. By March '64 he said:"Mr. Truly and I decided to view the motorcade and took up a position next to the curb of Elm Street adjacent to the street signal light."
(He also said that "Mrs. Jeraldean Reid" and two other female TSBD employees "were standing at my elbow and likewise witnessed the assassination," thus, reaffirming that Reid was with them.)
In that March FBI statement he also emphasizes:
"I definitely did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at the time..." and goes on to state:"I have had occasion to view photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald and to the best of my recollection never saw him while he was employed by the Texas School Book Depository."
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
As for their location...Truly says in his WC testimony, they were in front of the TSBD -- he doesn't say they were by the stop light on the island.:
"I would judge out in Elm Street, 10 to 15 or 20 feet from the front steps" and "Almost straight out from it. It would not be well, it could be on a little angle.."
Truly also says there were people "around us in front" - so once again this corroborates the trio can't be the trio on the left - since there are people standing "around" them, but not in front of them.
As for Truly's account of being "practically bore back to the first step" by the crowd...I believe, though not captured on film, this indeed, well could have happened just as he stated. Between the time Wiegman captures the trio on the right and the line of people "around in front" of Truly, and the time Darnell captures the area, with that trio - and grouping around and in front of them -disbanded and separated, and Truly found up by the steps, I believe the described panic of the crowd could have occurred. Indeed, we do find Truly up by the steps, and the big guy whom i am asserting is Campbell, is indeed "separated" from him, as is Reid. I think Truly lied about a ton of things...but he's probably being truthful about this.WC testimony replies:
Mr. TRULY. "And that is the last I saw of his car, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front - they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building."
Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it.
Mr TRULY....But as I came back here, and everybody. was screaming and hollering, just moments later-I saw a young motorcycle policeman run up to the building, up the steps to the entrance of our building. He ran right by me. And he was pushing people out of the way. He pushed a number of people out of the way before he got to me. I saw him coming through, I believe. As he ran up the stairway--I mean up the steps, I was almost to the steps, I ran up and caught up with him. I believe I caught up with him inside the lobby of the building, or possibly the front steps.
What do you think?
Addendum: One change...I suppose the waist length "jacket" my Campbell is wearing in Darnell (and Tommy's Campbell is wearing in Wiegman) could be a long sleeved shirt tucked in and sort of loose and flounced a bit around the waist to give the appearance of a hanging waist-length jacket. So, it could be a dress shirt he's wearing without his suit coat, and that would be more fitting for a managerial type. -
Tommy,
That anim. Wiegman gif of Sean's is a great find! The "Truly" character tends to be hidden by the taller "Campbell", so I had never spotted those 2 over on the far rt. side before. I'm not so sure about the tall guy in the white shirt being Campbell since he doesn't have on black horn rimmed glasses - whereas the other "Campbell" in the grouping on the far left of Wiegman does when I blow him up. He also has on a white or light sand colored shirt or suit jacket like we see in the Martin gif I posted that Denis Morrisette had originally posted. But, I think Denis was just presuming that those two were Truly and Campbell - so the real Campbell may not actually have worn black horn-rimmed glasses. I sure wish we could find a good photo of Campbell. As it stands, I think at this point we may have 2 candidates the Truly, Campbell, Reid trio, unfortunately. Is there a reason to rule one or the other out at this point? Here's the Martin anim. gif again with "Campbell" in the bottom rt hand corner: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-2389-0-05468800-1362461838.gif
Thanks for this thread Tommy,
Could be, but isn't Truly farther back near the building, on the sidewalk, as Baker runs by him as seen in the Darnell/Wiegman clips?
If so can you demonstrate Trulys movement between said position next to "OV" and where he is when Baker runs past.
Or a closer comparrison of know Truly images and the Suited man.
That could be her face sticking out Tommy.
How was it shown the lady in Homicide office is Jeraldean Bray Reid (Mrs. Robert A. Reid)?
I thought last word was woman in the office due to dress, age, purse, gloves, coat, and other accoutrements did not match and thus was not her.
What provenance do we have for the picture so far Tommy? Who took it and when?
Saturday 23rd report:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/09/0958-002.gifJA REID AFFIDAVIT MENTIONED
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1529-001.gif OV Campbell
Plus Jim Leavelle can stick this report below in his butt as he does not know what it takes to be pre-med and take 18-21 credit hours a semester when everyone else is taking 12, plus working part time!! Jim Leavelle shows his ignorance. And if anyone was to be chatted up by Ruby it would be someone whom is a higher class person looking to become a doctor. And if said student was looking to open a lounge even more reason for a conversation with Ruby.
The person introduced may likely be Crafard.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1576-001.gifEd,
Thanks for the feedback and the questions.
You ask if Truly "isn't farther back near the building, on the sidewalk, as Baker runs past him as seen in Darnell / Wiegman."
Baker is seen running past Truly in Darnell / Couch, but not in Weigman. Weigman was already running down Elm Street (with his movie camera running) when Darnell and Couch "caught" Baker running past Truly.
Darnell / Couch:
Credit: Gerda Dunckel. Click on image to enlarge a bit.
As regards Jeraldean Reid, all i know is that she was 51 years of age at the time of the assassination, that she gave an affidavit to Det. Jim Leavelle on 11/23/63, and that she claimed in her WC testimony to have been standing in the street (or on the curb) near Campbell and Truly during the assassination.
Jim Leavelle is on record as having taken Reid's affidavit on 11/23/63.
In the photo of the woman sitting with Leavelle in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Leavelle appears to be writing a report of some sort and the woman looks like she could be in her early fifties, so I think it's reasonable to assume that the woman is Jearaldean Reid and the report that Leavelle is writing is Reid's affidavit.
The four photos / frames with red arrows are, clockwise from upper right:
1 ) A Darnell / Couch frame.
2 ) A Dave Wiegman frame, best viewed in slow motion at 1:04 of this youtube video:
3 ) ? (I'm working on it.)
4 ) Don Cook film for Dallas TV station?
More importantly, I've just now found this great enhanced Wiegman clip, posted by Sean Murphy on another thread, which shows Reid's head in the middle of the frame between two other women, and Truly (!) and Campbell (?) on the far right. Campbell (?) looks tall and possibly jacket-less. Truly is visible behind Campbell and a little to our left of him. He is much shorter than Campbell and is wearing his fedora and dark suit. Reid, Truly, and Campbell are standing in the line of people behind the car.
Judging by Wiegman's camera movements in his complete film, the frames in this GIF seem to have been filmed about four seconds before the first or second shot rang out.
--Tommy
-
Here's an interesting tidbit I just discovered. Bill Shelley was the best man at Gloria Calvery's wedding!
The girl in the tire ad with her above, Dana Herring, was also her bridesmaid. It's in her wedding announcement which I found online at My Heritage. I made up a findagrave page for her, connected up some of her ancestors to it and included a couple of the photos Thomas found, and the wedding clipping. I was going to attach it here but can't figure out how to do that.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=149407954
Nice work, Linda!
Sounds like Bill Shelley and Gloria's husband were friends...
--Tommy
PS Randy Sorensen found the photos.
PPS Now we need to start working on Ochus V. Campbell. I can't even figure out what his middle name was...
Thomas Graves, Thanks!
As for Ochus V. Campbell his middle name was Virgil. I do know he died in '97. I also tracked down his last address which was in a huge house out on a lake on the far east side of Dallas - so he was pretty well off. Last year i spent a good deal of time trying to track down a yearbook photo of him from Oklahoma, but no luck. However, a long while back, I did save a double picture - that is 2 photos side by side, cropped from the Wiegman and Martin films, that has a man labeled "Ochus V. Campbell?" in front of the TSBD post assassination. I can't even remember who posted it, i'm guessing maybe Denis Morrisette, but i could be wrong. He's older, white-haired and has black, horn-rimmed glasses. Anyway, I wanted to upload it here, but for the life of me i can't figure out how to do it. It's not a URL but a file. I've just spent 10 minutes clicking around. Really...this should be a simple process.
Can someone please leave me a message about how to upload images here, please? In the meantime I went looking for him in the Unger Martin gallery and found the him in this anim gif. "Campbell" appears in the bottom rt hand corner eventually. The still in the "double photo" i mentioned is from this video: http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=5873&fullsize=1
**
Randy Sorensen! Ooops, sorry! I thought Thomas had posted those pix of Gloria. My bad!
Good work finding them!Btw...she has 2 living sons, Craig and Chistopher.
**
Robert Prudhomme: "No matter how many times I compare the photos, I just can't reconcile that Gloria Little is the woman seen in the Darnell still."
I've wondered about that myself. She did appear chubbier in her wedding pic from July '63. Who knows...maybe she lost weight to please her husband? Women's wt can fluctuate a lot sometimes, even in a short period, for such reasons.
Hi Linda
You have Gloria Calvery's wedding picture? Wow, I'd love to see that.
Yes, Robert, it was at the top of her wedding announcement - and i uploaded it onto the Findgrave page i made for her. The link is above somewhere. It's not a great pic but it's better than it was. Here you go: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=calvery&GSfn=gloria+&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=149407954&df=all&
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I was actually hoping to continue the discussion here.
As Calvery said in her statement, she was watching the motorcade with Westbrook, Hicks and Reed. I think we should try to establish which person is actualy Calvery in al the photographic evidence.
Robert,
Here's a slightly different view of the woman identified by Thierry Speth and Robin Unger as "Gloria Calvary" [sic]. Note that in this frame she's looking straight ahead instead of down.
"Gloria Calvary," Karan Hicks, and Carol Reed seem to be walking slowly back up Elm towards the TSBD in the photo. Clothing differences preclude the "Gloria Calvary" on the left from being the same woman seen running down the Elm Street Extension in Darnell / Couch while Baker is running towards the TSBD. If it's true (and I believe it is) that Lovelady and Shelley can be seen walking / running in Darnell / Couch 20 - 30 seconds after the fatal head shot, and if they encountered the "Gloria Calvary" [sic] pictured above, said encounter must have happened after Lovelady and Shelley walked / ran down the Elm Street Extension towards the railway yards. Or maybe just maybe Lovelady and Shelley in Darnell / Couch aren't walking / running towards the railway yards, but circuitously towards the "little island," instead?
[Darnell frame(?) Credit Todd Vaughn via Robin Unger]
Do you think the light brown or blond-haired, glasses-wearing Gloria Jean Little (who married Robert L. Calvery in Texas a few months before the assassination, and whom Randy and I recently tracked down) is the same woman pictured above on the left and identified by Speth/Unger as "Gloria Calvary"? Personally, I do see a facial resemblance between the woman on the left, above, and the Gloria Jean Little in the 1958 and 1959 Grand Prairie High School yearbooks. Maybe she dyed her hair black or dark brown and stopped wearing glasses (early wearer of contact lenses?) for her new husband.
It took me a long time and it took a lot of steps on the Internet to figure out that the "Gloria Calvery" who signed the FBI statement on March 19, 1964, was married to a Robert L. Calvery, not a Robert R. Calvery.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=668&tab=page
And that she was born Gloria Jean Little in 1942 and raised in Grand Prairie, Texas, by her mother, Ila Little. Etc, etc, etc. But I'm glad I did it because Randy Sorensen was able to find her in the Grand Prairie High School year books.
If necessary I will show you all of the steps, Robert.
--Tommy
There's no doubt in my mind that the woman on the left is an African-American woman - unless Gloria Little Calvery was going thru a Rachel Donezal period?
I don't see a resemblance at all. I have no idea why someone would label those photos of the AA woman as Calvery when she clearly said in her FBI statement she was Caucasian. In fact, i've wondered if possibly it could have been done intentionally to throw researchers off? After all, she had to have gone right by Prayer Man - and then there's that account Sean Murphy posted on the EDF that he saw a post from her alleged neighbor stating she told him/her that she was always perplexed at how he could be the shooter when she saw him so soon after the assassination. -
Here's an interesting tidbit I just discovered. Bill Shelley was the best man at Gloria Calvery's wedding!
The girl in the tire ad with her above, Dana Herring, was also her bridesmaid. It's in her wedding announcement which I found online at My Heritage. I made up a findagrave page for her, connected up some of her ancestors to it and included a couple of the photos Thomas found, and the wedding clipping. I was going to attach it here but can't figure out how to do that.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=149407954
Nice work, Linda!
Sounds like Bill Shelley and Gloria's husband were friends...
--Tommy
PS Randy Sorensen found the photos.
PPS Now we need to start working on Ochus V. Campbell. I can't even figure out what his middle name was...
Thomas Graves, Thanks!
As for Ochus V. Campbell his middle name was Virgil. I do know he died in '97. I also tracked down his last address which was in a huge house out on a lake on the far east side of Dallas - so he was pretty well off. Last year i spent a good deal of time trying to track down a yearbook photo of him from Oklahoma, but no luck. However, a long while back, I did save a double picture - that is 2 photos side by side, cropped from the Wiegman and Martin films, that has a man labeled "Ochus V. Campbell?" in front of the TSBD post assassination. I can't even remember who posted it, i'm guessing maybe Denis Morrisette, but i could be wrong. He's older, white-haired and has black, horn-rimmed glasses. Anyway, I wanted to upload it here, but for the life of me i can't figure out how to do it. It's not a URL but a file. I've just spent 10 minutes clicking around. Really...this should be a simple process.
Can someone please leave me a message about how to upload images here, please? In the meantime I went looking for him in the Unger Martin gallery and found the him in this anim gif. "Campbell" appears in the bottom rt hand corner eventually. The still in the "double photo" i mentioned is from this video: http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=5873&fullsize=1
**
Randy Sorensen! Ooops, sorry! I thought Thomas had posted those pix of Gloria. My bad!
Good work finding them!Btw...she has 2 living sons, Craig and Chistopher.
**
Robert Prudhomme: "No matter how many times I compare the photos, I just can't reconcile that Gloria Little is the woman seen in the Darnell still."
I've wondered about that myself. She did appear chubbier in her wedding pic from July '63. Who knows...maybe she lost weight to please her husband? Women's wt can fluctuate a lot sometimes, even in a short period, for such reasons.
-
Here's an interesting tidbit I just discovered. Bill Shelley was the best man at Gloria Calvery's wedding!
The girl in the tire ad with her above, Dana Herring, was also her bridesmaid. It's in her wedding announcement which I found online at My Heritage. I made up a findagrave page for her, connected up some of her ancestors to it and included a couple of the photos Thomas found, and the wedding clipping. I was going to attach it here but can't figure out how to do that.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=149407954 -
Hello, Robert, kudos on finding that photo of Molina! I've been searching forever for one! I don't have another photo of him but, I do have the next best thing from 1964, the FBI Wood Report on Molina - Commission Document 1429 - with Molina's own personal description of himself, 5' 7 1/2", 164 lbs, brown hair, greying, "balding in the front," "stocky" (his words) etc... (see pgs 17-18).
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11821#relPageId=20&tab=page
So, no, Prayer Man can't be Molina. No doubt in my mind, whatsoever, that PM is LHO!
I used to believe Molina was the stocky guy to the far right in Altgens 6 with his arms over his head/eyes. Now, since reading this post in another edforum thread ("Joe Molina's connections to gun-runners" post #11) I'm thinking he might be the guy with the black suit and tie to the right of Lovelady, whom I had always thought was Shelley. I'm not totally convinced - it could still be either one - but he's definitely not PM.:In this interesting correspondence between Shirley Martin & Harold Weisberg, 7/8/67 (Weisberg Archives) near the end of Shirley's reply she says:
"Joe Molina claims to be the man in suit standing next to Lovelady-Oswald figure in Altgens photo. My inclination is that Molina was lying about this. He was a frightened man when I spoke to him; I have always felt he had someone in the house the night I interviewed him, and that he had notified someone ahead of time that I was coming. He was in the process of buying a new home when I last talked to him. However, this could have been only an inference. I have no way to be positive. At any rate, he was leaving Brown Street. I do not know where he is now."
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/Martin%20Shirley/Item%2016.pdf -
I’ve been studying/researching the assassination for ~40 years. I’m an RN and the medical evidence is my forte. I’m a strong believer the assassination was a conspiracy and a coup d’etat. I strongly support the SK shooter hypothesis ala Fiester and Sean Murphy and Greg Parker’s work on Prayerman.
Additionally, I’ve done original groundbreaking research on PM, which I have not yet published.
Can someone please leave me a message about how to upload images here, please? 
Good work finding them!
Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired?
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Linda Giovanna Zambanini
LOL! OK, Mark....My apologies!!!!
I'm new here and don't know a lot of people, including you and, unfortunately, I can also be very gullible when people tease me. Sometimes i just don't get the joke. So sorry about that! 