David G. Healy

________________________________________ There are a number of techniques in play on most sites with any gravitas. The above reference would be known as forum sliding or topic dilution. One must remember that these techniques, as most disinformation, only work if people aren't aware of them and you certainly have raised that flag. Salute. There is a lot at stake. JG To believe that folks here are posting on threads to keep this one down is ridiculous. And who defines which thread is less significant than the other? All you have to do is bump this thread, every once in a while. Kathy Kathy-- you keep coming back ya hear....and what you term ridiculous is in fact, reality, on many boards (how many do you monitor daily? 5-10?)... unless Bill Miller has told you otherwise ya might want to do a little deep research....

irrelevant and quite frankly Craigster, David Lifton has more operating time on a professional optical film printer than you ever had... Your gonna need Rollie Zavada to endorse your KODAK double 8mm film "edge fog" scenario/dream (a few B&H414 engineers might help too) so, it's about time to roll out Dave Wimp and his traveling road show, eh? LMAO!

Dr. Thompson.. This is all pretty simple, in fact, REAL simple from my perspective at least. Simply put, every bone in my body says the Z-film is a fabrication. That was was proved (to me at least) during the 2003 Univ. of Minn. symposium. So much in fact, it's what led Rollie Zavada to get in touch with Jim Fetzer in order to get in-touch with me -- which he did. We spoke while he was here at a executive committee SMPTE meeting at Lake Tahoe. Rollie then he jetted off to Florida to speak with Ray Fielding discussing film composite possibilities related to the Zapruder film. Ray Fielding did not help Rollie with his new and improved Zapruder film/camera investigation-report, soon to be published (note: the original which Doug Horne played a role). As you and a few others here know, it never was published, I suspect the 6th floor had something to do with that, however, it makes no difference who or the why's, it wasn't published. It wasn't what past or present author-researchers or museum PR artists had to say, you or Gary Mack for that matter, Fielding didn't endorse what Rollie was looking for in hs revised report... in a nut shell, that it was impossible to alter the Z-film... When I corresponded with Ray Fielding he was very specific, he did NOT want to get involved in the matter. So to me Ray Fielding's refusal sealed the case of Z-film alteration.... the argument wasn't worth going on the record in Zavada's new report.... So, my position is simple: until the lone nut'/SBT's find someone, ANYONE with film compositing expertise that will counter what the authors put forth in TGZFH, debating Z-film alteration issue(s) is simply beating a dead horse..... The lone nut/SBT adherents best play (only play left) is the holding option.... led by Gary, Lampoon Lamson and the remaining gang of 8... Ray Carroll (and many others) has it right, shooters from the front (2-mine IMHO) AND the rear (2-mine IMHO)... Kennedy was hit at least 4 times (mine IMHO)... the medical evidence trumps ALL... Gary Mack once told me... "the original in-camera Zapruder Film will never, EVER see the inside of a courtroom, PERIOD! I believe that, but for a different reason, it (the original film) simply no longer exists... The Z-film debate has kept the CT research community up-front the last 6-7 years, we've kept the Single Bullet Theorists not only busy, but driving them crazy.... Let's finish the job! We no longer need debate the Z-film... it's time to pull it all together a focus squarely on the medical evidence... So let's make Bugliosi and Company along with Tom Hanks and HBO do a little rewrite work, they've got deep pockets... David At the 2003 Duquesne conference I asked the forensic pathology panel if they agreed that only a new autopsy would resolve all the conflicts in the medical evidence, and none of these distinguished experts disagreed. The original autopsy was performed by amateurs, and until a new autopsy is performed, I am unable to give definitive answers on the wounds to JFK's body. We do know however that an entry wound in JFK's throat was noted at parkland hospital, and we also know that the Zapruder film shows that JFK was driven backward by a bullet in the brain, apparently fired from the right front. There have been various efforts to rationalize the Head Snap and make it seem consistent with a shot from behind, but none of these efforts (jet effect, neuro) are remotely persuasive, and the fact remains that Malcolm Perry was quite certain that the throat wound was an entry. So my view for now is that JFK was shot twice from the front, and that view may be modified depending on the findings of a new autopsy or other unassailable source. The Zapruder film is entirely consistent with JFK being struck twice from the front, and I submit that trying to have the Z-film declared a fake does nothing to resolve the problems with the autopsy. BRAVO Ray... and your conclusion does not make not one wit of difference if I think, or, you think the Z-film is altered. The Z-film debate is and for recent years a canard -- fodder and diversion for nutter-trolls... A now needless debate that stymies progress...

At the 2003 Duquesne conference I asked the forensic pathology panel if they agreed that only a new autopsy would resolve all the conflicts in the medical evidence, and none of these distinguished experts disagreed. The original autopsy was performed by amateurs, and until a new autopsy is performed, I am unable to give definitive answers on the wounds to JFK's body. We do know however that an entry wound in JFK's throat was noted at parkland hospital, and we also know that the Zapruder film shows that JFK was driven backward by a bullet in the brain, apparently fired from the right front. There have been various efforts to rationalize the Head Snap and make it seem consistent with a shot from behind, but none of these efforts (jet effect, neuro) are remotely persuasive, and the fact remains that Malcolm Perry was quite certain that the throat wound was an entry. So my view for now is that JFK was shot twice from the front, and that view may be modified depending on the findings of a new autopsy or other unassailable source. The Zapruder film is entirely consistent with JFK being struck twice from the front, and I submit that trying to have the Z-film declared a fake does nothing to resolve the problems with the autopsy. BRAVO Ray... and your conclusion does not make not one wit of difference if I think, or, you think the Z-film is altered. The Z-film debate is and for recent years a canard -- fodder and diversion for nutter-trolls... A now needless debate that stymies progress...

If you mean the DelaRosa Report then yes, I just read it this morning and I got a good laugh out of it. http://books.google.com/books?id=_YAWJka6j...;q=&f=false We'll see what's beyond whom. Photographs and witnesses PROVE that Abe Zapruder filmed the assassination using a Bell & Howell movie camera. Zapruder authenticated the film under oath on two separate occasions (WC & Shaw trial), so the film is now in evidence and it contains powerful evidence that William Greer abruptly SLOWED the limo when he should have accelerated to safety. The film cannot tell us what motivated Greer to suddenly slow the limo, but it does show the UNDENIABLE FACT that Greer behaved in a manner that was completely inappropriate for someone sworn to protect the president and the film also tells us that Greer lied about his behavior under oath. His behavior WAS appropriate, however, for someone sworn to assist in the assassination of JFK. The film as it stands is already a stunning indication of Secret Service complicity, so if someone tried to alter the film to remove suspicion from Greer, I'm afraid they did not succeed in their purpose. It is true that Vince Palamara can cite dozens of witnesses who recalled that the limo actually stopped. In The Logic of Drawing History From Ancient Documents, Charles Sanders Peirce warns that "THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH LEAD one witness into error are likely to operate to deceive another." http://books.google.com/books?id=grYAoECfZ...nts&f=false One circumstance causing witnesses to think the limo stopped is the FACT that it SLOWED ABRUPTLY from 12 MPH to 8MPH, according to the calculations of Alvarez. Another circumstance is the fact that the VP's car DID STOP, creating the impression that the entire motorcade stopped. So witnesses can be AND OFTEN ARE MISTAKEN. So the answer to your question is that I have so far seen NOTHING to make me doubt that the film shows exactly what Abe Zapruder saw through his viewfinder in those fateful moments. Ray, What I enjoy about all the above (and others of course) posts is simple: the Lone Nut faithful would have us believe that a simple murder occurred in Dealey Plaza, Nov 22nd 1963. So simple in fact we're led to believe only a piece of film taken by someone (or family trust) whom made 16 million buckeroos for the piece of unchallenged piece of film... This someone (and his assistant) whom we know damn little about. While others in the dipsy cast of DP related characters (and their families) AND who their dentists are? LMFAO.... The most overused phrase I see here and elsewhere is the eye-witness reliability bullsh*t, here and elsewhere, over and over... Kinda makes you wonder why police departments have homicide detectives on staff, doesn't it? I could just see a prosecutor stand up in court when the judge gavels a trial in session: "Your Honor we don't need no stinkin' eyewitnesses, we got the 6PM news film -- you can give the case to the jury now, Your Honor... Comments Counselor?

Oh, I was under the impression that all of this debate had to do with the Zfilm being changed that weekend or shortly thereafter. Wonder why it took months?Gee, maybe they didn't get it right the first time--as technically astute as they were you'd think it wouldn't take so long. BTW, I have no doubt in my mind that Ryan told that to Trask and Zavada. There would be no reason for them to lie about it. Their credibility is fine with me. Kathy Bloody Treason is supposed to be released as an ebook soon, if it hasn't been already: http://noeltwyman.com/BloodyTreason.html keep up girl, Bill Miller still have you confounded? It appears nutter-trolls are in a tizzy over Doug Horne...

simple Zapruder film frame alteration was completed by Feb-1964. (lest we forget the ONLY client viewing the alleged in-camera original Zapruder film was the Warren Commission, collectively, they saw the film late Feb 1964...) There were years and years available (after the initial frame alteration) for in-depth alteration.... Gary should get off his rear-end and head for Hollyweird, that place where, when it comes to film--anything, ANYTHING is possible.... all Gary's nutter-xxxxx hanger-oners are doing him a serious dis-service....

Why do't you start Kelly, after all you are the one with the magical conversion. light weight nutter-trolls to the rear, Craigster -- ya need a physicist till then you're dancin' chum!....

3.5 years ago and this is still heating up.... the trolls have dropped the ball, again. So where is Gary M's latest dance concerning Doug Horne's take on Z-film alteration? Rumor has it he (Gary) has broken his silence... Who has dropped the ball? UH, that would be the twinks who believe in the fairytale of zfilm alteration.... that would incude you davie. Denial You know that we are about to be vidicated What are going to do when that happens? Crawl into a corn field and ask Shoeless Joe Jackson why? Vindicated? Surely you jest. But then deano can't help himself. He is just a sheep who lets others do his thinking. Keep believing in your fairytale. Lordy Lordy...deano BELIEVES! Denial...yep thats deano to be sure. Ahh, yes -- Dancing with the Stars, the Len and Craig ROAD SHOW. Then we have who Gary brings up the "physics of film" and the road show here goes to work..... nice try but no CEEEE-GAR. ROTFLMFAO! PR, it's all about PR! May the trolls and all all other forum members (and lurkers) have a safe and sane Christmas, travel well friends! David Healy

3.5 years ago and this is still heating up.... the trolls have dropped the ball, again. So where is Gary M's latest dance concerning Doug Horne's take on Z-film alteration? Rumor has it he (Gary) has broken his silence...

I be watching Lampoon... have you found anyONE that'll give you're Zapruder film nonsense a bit of credibility, Y-E-T ...and I'm not talking about the Lenster, whose already said he doesn't know SQUAT about film and/or film composing... btw, have YOU ever seen or touched the alleged in-camera Zapruder film currently housed at NARA?

Has happened before. Similar circumstances have happened before. The fact that you have no experience in this area and try to tell people whose profession it is that you know better than them speaks volumes about your arrogance. And the odds were over a million to one that two B747s could collide on the ground... but they did. No, they were able to fly out of it - further evidence of pilot error. Oh please. As far as aircraft are concerned, you don't really know the difference between a Rolls Royce and an Edsel. I'm not the ignorant one nor the phony here since I can back up all my assertions with documented examples and can prove my expertise in the field. How many flight hours do you have? Do you have piloting qualifications? As a flight navigator? As an air traffic controller? Work in the aviation field? Please - show me the qualifications. you're dancing son..... and not well!

He saw the "other film" Len By "other film" do you mean the forged Z-film? We know the original was developed in Dallas ROTFLMFAO.... nah, Redd isn't impressed -- try again!

God forbid anyone should trust their life to your works. Look how afraid you are to even address the proof of your failure as documented here. And thats not even considering the other gross failures in your boggled Zapruder film mess. www.craiglamson.com/costella.htm Whats the matter johnboy, Chicken? Maybe you would be more comfortable crawling back under your rock down there in oz...much safer to be sure.... my goodness, did someone say that commercial photography of yours looks FAKE, painted instead of touched up or enhanced.... what happens when ya get to arrogant, son. So where's Zavada lets get to the bottom of it, NOW! LMAO... Can you focus on the thread topic Craigster? Or does Doug Horne have you running in circles too? Climategate, nice and slow now, so Al Gore can hear ya.... C-L-I-M-A-T-E-G-A-T-E..... where's the .john varsity gone these day's?

for those that want a bit more in-depth discussion concerning Zavada (Thompson, and the rest of the nutter-xxxxx gang of 8) re TGZFH see below: http://www.assassinationscience.com/johnco...ax/lifton1.html whomever Zavada mentions or doesn't NOT mention, take with a grain of salt..... Note that Costella failed to refute Zavada's conclusion that for technical reasons the film he examined was an "in camera original" and note a duplicate (copy) yeah sure, Len.... Zavada was refused access/or test the Zapruder B&H414 double 8mm camera which he requested it for testing (as a result, his formal study were based on 4 other *wind-up* B&H414 film cameras), now you're trying to tell us Zavada was given access tothe in-camera Zapruder film in-camera film original to review, when he couldn't even touch the Zapruder camera? Did he do any forensic testing on the Z-film, Len? Oh, and btw, was he, Zavada charged with determining Zapruder film content? Lots of curious minds out here Man-o-man, Doug Horne has you guys running on circles these day's....Ya need a new day job there Len..... Redd Foxx won't be happy...

Of course if Len Colby had read the book(s) he would know that the CIA ordered the removal of the word "Hawkeye Works" from the published notes and report that Horne filed, but it is still in the audio taped interview with McMahon, one of the few interviews the ARRB "allowed" Horne to record. Horne, as a 20 year Navy veteran and a miliary records analysist who was investigated, certified and approved to read classified material, dutifully excised the word the CIA wanted to keep classified, and has maintained his status, - if he was in the Mafia, as "a Stand Up Guy." As for the recorded interview with McMahon, they wouldn't let him record most interviews or even let him talk to some of the lab technicians who were then still alive but are now dead. And do indeed consider the intellectual honesty of the writer, and compare that to what we know about Craig Lamson's intellectual honesty, as well as Colby, for writing all that junk without bothering to read the book they are trying to tear apart. And also consider the intellectual honesty of those who claim Doug Horne is a pot head, is writing a book on UFOs and failed to conduct himself himself as a responsible, professional Senior Analysist of Military Records. The best part of Horne's book is that he answers almost every objection that has been raised thus far. Read the book, and then come back and try to argue. And for those who don't want to follow the lead to "Hawkeye Works," at the Kodak plant in Rochester, New York, then just be happy knowing that there is no such place. Bill Kelly Poor Bill, wanting to talk about intellectual honesty and then to post such blatantly dishonest stuff like this. You sound SO desperate! "And do indeed consider the intellectual honesty of the writer, and compare that to what we know about Craig Lamson's intellectual honesty, as well as Colby, for writing all that junk without bothering to read the book they are trying to tear apart. " Please show me exactly where I have tried to tear "the book apart"? I've simply made comments on the published excerpts, which I should remind you that YOU posted. I've also commented on the blatant and very silly speculation contained in these excerpts and utttered by an ignorant Bill Kelly. I sure can understand Kelly's desperation. He is claiming that Hawkeye Works is some super duper, state of the art CIA lab whose name must be scrubbed from existance, and here we find that Eastman Kodak published the name Hawkeye Works on thier company website! And photos exist of the Hawkeye Works in Rochester! Super Secret? Now thats funny! Please keep it up Bill, the entertainmnet value you provide is priceless! Running from Horne, are we? How lone-nut xxxxx utterish! Keep that WCR faith, the only thing the trolls have left... LMFAO!

http://books.google.com/books?id=_YAWJka6j...ton&f=false Thanks Michael, The Great Zapruder Film Hoax. How come I missed this? Ah, yes, now I remember, I got to the part about me and John Judge meeting Don Norton at University of Dayton, but here its says here it was in Toledo, a minor mistake, but still one that should be corrected. Was David Lifton's article "Pig on a Leash" published anywhere else before or after TGZFH? Is it available on line in full, rather than in this version, which is missing half its pages? I take it that the references to the Hawkeye Works is on p. 387 and 388 but 388 is missing. Can someone copy these pages and references and post them? Someone should also copy the entire article and post it if it to be part of the record, even if only a footnote. It should be called a biography of Bob Groden. And hey, the pig was real, it wasn't fake. Bill Kelly Zavada responded to TGZFH. See here: http://home.earthlink.net/~joejd/jfk/zapho...comments-r1.pdf He mentions Horne several times. Cheers Peter Fokes, Toronto for those that want a bit more in-depth discussion concerning Zavada (Thompson, and the rest of the nutter-xxxxx gang of 8) re TGZFH see below: http://www.assassinationscience.com/johnco...ax/lifton1.html whomever Zavada mentions or doesn't NOT mention, take with a grain of salt.....

'Craig no hard data Lamson' said... best get a partner if your gonna dance the night through there chum.... actually you're in desperate need of a Ph.D. physicist, of any stripe... LMFAO! Man, does Doug Horne have you nutter-trolls churning the midnight oil... Dance sweet gloria, D-A-N-C-E

da 'Craigster Lamson' stated who cares if its a real bitch? The CIA can't develop a simple piece of 8mm film? Who are you feeding this line too? the alleged 1963 in-camera original Zapruder film and its authenticity is questioned laddie and there's not a damn thing you can do about it except whine of course.....

da 'Craigster Lampoon stated: just like you my lovely, but we always knew your credibility didn't we..... Have a nice new year too, I'm sure you'll need all the best wishes thrown your way -- One can safely bet Doug Horne has all you nutter-trolls wound up tighter than a double-8mm Bell & Howell 414 camera these day's, tsk-tsk!

Thanks for posting this Bill. Doug seemed to be on solid ground until he got into Z-film alteration: Assuming that the two CIA men (Homer & Ben) are honest, are they relying on their own unaided memory for the name of "Bill Smith"? If they are, they could be simply misremembering the name, which is a VERY easy thing to do. Also, Did the SS roster show anyone named Smith who had a status other than "special agent?" I think Doug is taking an enormous leap here. Homer and Ben NOW say that Smith SAID the film had been developed in Rochester. Apart from the memory issues, if the film had really been clandestinely processed in Rochester (when the official story has it processed in Dallas) Smith would have to be a foolish conspirator indeed to spill the beans to Ben & Homer. Of course Smith and the film could both be legit, with Smith simply having been misinformed about where the film was processed. I hope Doug has something a helluva better than this to support the theory of Z-film alteration, assuming that is part of his book. Quite true Ray, but many people uncritically accept any evidence, no matter how shaky which supports their views. Elsewhere there is mention of some supposed super secret CIA/Kodak lab in Rochester. It must have quite secret indeed because even nearly 50 years later no evidence it ever existed DAVID, You keep referring to the Livinstone interview with Zavada as if it proves something but never quote the passages which supposedly prove something which leads me to conclude you're just exhaling a cloud of fine particles suspended in a gas from between your legs. well Len, perhaps you should break loose a few bucks and buy the book, eh? Show some real support for the Lone Nut, SBT, non Z-film alteration crowd. Time to keep up. The HOAX of the Century Decoding the Forgery of the Zapruder Film by Harrison Livingstone copyright2004 ISBN 1-4120-4462-6 when you're done with the above perhaps Doug Horne's 13 year undertaking will whet your appetite for detailed discussion... Till then, have a safe and sane holiday season. Still curious David, what exactly are Livingstone's film/photo credentials? I can't seem to find ANY. Perhaps YOU can enlighten us, given thats your standard point of reference when it come to persons discussing the assassination photos/films. probably about the same type of credentials as Zavada's were/are concerning Zapruder film content, Craig -- however, he Livingstone did have extended interviews with Roland Zavada. AND having been in the presence of and studied the alleged Zapruder film (multiple times) at NARA. I was invited for one of these NARA gigs, unfortunately I was out of the country at the time. Also, having NYT Best seller to your (Livingstone's) credit does attract those in need of explaining themselves. Even if its about 1960's era assassination film... (read all about it in Livingstones book) To remain on topic, I find it interesting that Doug Horne worked closely with Roland Zavada during his Zavada's ARRP foray into the Zapruder film. Roland Zavada never mentioned that to me during a conversation. Frankly, I never thought to ask..... Have a nice holiday, too, Craig.

Thanks for posting this Bill. Doug seemed to be on solid ground until he got into Z-film alteration: Assuming that the two CIA men (Homer & Ben) are honest, are they relying on their own unaided memory for the name of "Bill Smith"? If they are, they could be simply misremembering the name, which is a VERY easy thing to do. Also, Did the SS roster show anyone named Smith who had a status other than "special agent?" I think Doug is taking an enormous leap here. Homer and Ben NOW say that Smith SAID the film had been developed in Rochester. Apart from the memory issues, if the film had really been clandestinely processed in Rochester (when the official story has it processed in Dallas) Smith would have to be a foolish conspirator indeed to spill the beans to Ben & Homer. Of course Smith and the film could both be legit, with Smith simply having been misinformed about where the film was processed. I hope Doug has something a helluva better than this to support the theory of Z-film alteration, assuming that is part of his book. Quite true Ray, but many people uncritically accept any evidence, no matter how shaky which supports their views. Elsewhere there is mention of some supposed super secret CIA/Kodak lab in Rochester. It must have quite secret indeed because even nearly 50 years later no evidence it ever existed DAVID, You keep referring to the Livinstone interview with Zavada as if it proves something but never quote the passages which supposedly prove something which leads me to conclude you're just exhaling a cloud of fine particles suspended in a gas from between your legs. well Len, perhaps you should break loose a few bucks and buy the book, eh? Show some real support for the Lone Nut, SBT, non Z-film alteration crowd. Time to keep up. The HOAX of the Century Decoding the Forgery of the Zapruder Film by Harrison Livingstone copyright2004 ISBN 1-4120-4462-6 when you're done with the above perhaps Doug Horne's 13 year undertaking will whet your appetite for detailed discussion... Till then, have a safe and sane holiday season.

Todd Vaughan wrote: Jack White wrote: Twice in the same thread Todd has to be corrected.... the more things change the more they stay the same, eh? Have you noticed attendance on this board has sharply decreased during the past month or so.... then Todd shows up here THEN Wild Bill Miller makes a half-baked return?

tune up.... I believe Al Healy deserves the credit, what say you?

thanks Mike Hogan... DHealy