Rob Clark
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Posts posted by Rob Clark
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Also...why was this moved here? I'm fairly certain it pertains directly to the JFK assassination rather than in a broader topic discussion of historical politics...just saying. It's pretty dead over here.
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Thank you for the kind words fellas! Here is the link for episode 8...The General and the Fool
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Pushed back closer to the assassination anniversary for obvious reasons I reckon...
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On 2/6/2020 at 5:20 PM, John Kozlowski said:
What’s the name of his FB group? If he’s trying to pull this off I’d like to see the other crap he pushes.
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Folks on Facebook will recognize this young "researcher" and JFK Group Admin apparently now in a relationship with this person...so who knows what the hell is going on.🤷♀️
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Well with this a weird one...but figured I'd throw it out there for those who need a good laugh today. There is a young woman on social media going by the name Kelsey Fitzgerald Kennedy, that is claiming some pretty in credible things....
- That she is the secret love child of JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette.
- That after her parents apparent demise, she was raised on Lolita Island by Jeffery Epstein and sexually abused by the elite.
- That Lee Harvey Oswald's grandson named Alec Richmond is stalking her online because some evil force wants them married and to procreate.
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Things that need explaining...
- Not one rent receipt for O.H. Lee was found among his possessions or presented by the Johnson's in the form of a receipt book. As Steve pointed out, they had been renting rooms going back into the 1950's and were business owners, you would think this is something they would do to keep track of things.
- They say they used one...why was it not introduced as evidence to the WC? Why didn't they try to sell it after the fact if it contained supposedly 8 different instances of payment by "O.H. Lee"? They certainly wanted to do that with the measly scrap of paper with his alleged O.H. Lee signature on it.
- Why would Oswald use an alias while allegedly staying at N. Beckley, but use his real name at Mary Bledsoe's and the YMCA?
- When it comes to police being dispatched to Beckley at 2:40 p.m., why would Oswald tell them his address right away if he's being so secretive about it? They asked him upon searching his wallet whether he was Lee Oswald or Alek Hidell, and according to Gerry Hill he said, "You're the detective, you figure it out." Only after it was established who he actually was, and where he worked did he start answering questions. If he was living at Beckley under an alias, why tell them about it at all? Let them figure it out....and they would not figure it out that quickly, unless somebody already knew...(Hosty)(FBI)
- Why were none of his possessions photographed or inventoried in situ at Beckley? Where's the sea bag with Oswald stenciled on it?
- Why would Oswald use the O.H. Lee alias when he had one already in Alek Hidell? Rearranging your real names is not the most ingenious tactic to create an alias. It sounds like a DPD invention to blend H.L. Lee and LHO into "Mr. Lee" as "everyone" allegedly called him.
- Where is Oswald's room key or house key? Renters would be okay with having their rooms unlocked and wide open while they are at work, with 15 -20 other people living in the house? I know I wouldn't be cool with that, especially with the low life drifter types that rented rooms by the week. Especially if I had a pistol and Communist literature among my belongings.
- Why did Oswald have a "Mexican" ashtray at Beckley...when he didn't smoke? Hoping Marina would come over? Was it supposed to be a gift never given? Pretty sure he didn't like the fact that she smoked and wouldn't have encouraged it with an ashtray.
- The gray jacket found, that he supposedly zipping up as he left Beckley, could not be tied to Oswald in any way, and Marina even stated he did not own one like it.
- If it was Oswald leaving the rooming house at 1:04 according to Earlene Roberts, and then seen standing at the bus stop on Zangs, then he never could have made it to 10th and Patton in time to kill Tippit.
- Why did Bledsoe ask him to leave because he was so loud and obnoxious, when he was described as silent and standoffish at Beckley?
- If Debrueys followed Oswald to Dallas, he would likely have been keeping tabs on his whereabouts. Hosty was obviously in keeping tabs on the Oswalds as well. You telling me somebody wasn't watching this former defector to the Soviet Union and his Russian MVD connected (likely spy) wife? Why did Oswald ask for the FBI when arrested in New Orleans. Why was he allegedly associated by many people with former FBI super agent Guy Banister?
- If they were watching him, surely traveling to Mexico and trying to re-defect via Cuba, creating scenes at the Cuban and Russian Consulates, would have sparked a renewed interest in Oswald's movements upon returning...if it was him that actually went...if it wasn't, even more interest as to what was up with this guy from the CIA and FBI.
- It seems to me that someone was probably always watching the Oswalds from the moment they returned to America. Whether it was Banister, or other folks with CIA connections like Jack Martin and David Ferrie in NOLA, and DeMorenschildt and Ruth Paine in Dallas. They were opening his mail, so how do they not know he mail ordered guns using an alias?
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On 1/21/2020 at 11:32 PM, S.T. Patrick said:
The only person who even mentions The JVB's story is The JVB. All the other speakers are discussing their own research, work, or personal history. Maybe I have missed the ones who discussed her, but I don't recall anyone at that conference going up to speak either to prove or disprove Me & Lee.
I can think of two who specifically use her for their work...Ed Haslam who we're all familiar with, and John DeLane William's, both coincidentally Trine Day authors...
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11 hours ago, Vince Palamara said:
You make some good points, Rob. Trust me-I fully "get" what you all are saying.
I look at it this way: my publisher, Kris Millegan of Trine Day, invited me to be a speaker for this past November conference; I accepted. I am a Trine Day author. I wasn't invited to CAPA.
Like I said above (and elsewhere), if you were a fly on the wall, you would definitely have the impression that this was a TRINE DAY conference--no photos of Judyth are anywhere to be found, no loyalty oaths are given, and, with so many (CAPA BOARD MEMBERS AND BOARD OF ADVISORS!!!) luminaries attending (Newman, the two Wechts, etc.), pretty soon there won't be anyone left to "safely" follow.
As someone who "lived through" the Lancer/COPA feud of 1993-2000ish, I can tell you, WITH A STRAIGHT FACE, the bad feelings toward Deb Conway were identical to Judyth
Then Kris Millegan should run the conference, the fact remains it IS Judyth's Conference as shown by the LLC filing posted above. I get why its chock full of Trine Day authors...he can write off paying everybody's expenses to come to Dallas and speak as a business promotional expense. CAPA cannot do this. Again, just because you are invited, doesnt mean you have to accept. You wanna come to Dallas, foot your bill like everyone else, book a room, and buy a ticket. You say look Kris, "I appreciate the offer but on principal, I just can't be a part of anything that Judyth Baker has her hands in." End of discussion. And she was front and center...she was a featured speaker at that conference, she, not Kris, and the other fraud Bev Oliver were the face of the Grassy Knoll observance, and her meeting with Oliver Stone overshadowed anything that happened at either conference. She is the catalyst as to why this "community" is so fractured and now imploding.
The difference between Deb Conway and JVB, is that the allegations against Deb were speculation and couldn't be proven in any way. JVB is a provable fraud and has been exposed from every way possible over the years by David Josephs, Greg Parker, Barb Junkkarien, Pamela Brown, Walt Brown, Carmine Savastano, Chuck Ochelli, and countless others...and those are just the CT's who have exposed her, not to mention Reitzes, McAdams...etc. To not know at this point is willful ignorance.
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Exactly....💯!
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On 1/21/2020 at 5:12 PM, S.T. Patrick said:
I also think it would be a mistake to assume that the JFK Historical Group members support her story.
"Man, whats all the JVB stuff about?! Who cares?! It's like James Files. Even if it's true, its STILL just a very small part of the story. She occupies more space in people's minds than is needed."
Ive been all over JFKHistorical.com, and I cant find The JVB featured prominently there or at the Project JFK site.
No offense taken, just a lively discussion buddy!
I'm more than real confident the JFK Historical Group members support her story. I heard firsthand six years ago from Denton, Tatro and company sing her praises at their first collaborative conference in DC. They've been hand in hand ever since.
It matters if a fraud is running the only JFK conference in Dallas...at least to me, and it should to any serious researcher. It IS akin to James Files running a Dallas based conference, as they are both fraudulent mythmakers. Again, folks that agree to speak there are supporting the entity (JVB) or (Files) that is running the conference. Lending it credence and credibility where there should be none.
Attached is the shot of JVB from the JFK historical website...
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On 1/21/2020 at 3:52 PM, S.T. Patrick said:
Just to point this out, the Project JFK guys (Quinlan/Edwards/Knight) and the JFK Historical Group guys (Denton/Tatro) that are running the KC conference in April are not tied to The JVB and TrineDay for this conference. TrineDay has been invited. Kris puts out a LOT of good work (I'd point to Vince Palamara's books and The Franklin Cover-Up by Nick Bryant, for example). I think having TrineDay there is a positive thing. But the Spring conference is completely different from the November one and is not, in any way, affiliated with JFK Conferences LLC. They aren't banning anyone from attending as a conference attendee (I'm not sure any of the conferences do, do they?), but The JVB has not been invited to speak. She is also not affiliated in any capacity with the Spring conferences held in the Midwest.
Hi S.T.!
I would just point out, Trine Day is responsible for publishing and promoting Judyth's books as fact and gospel. I would go so far as to say she is their "cash cow". I would also say they publish books from other questionable authors such as Ed Haslam, St. John Hunt, Chauncey Holt, Christopher Fulton, and James Tague or anyone else they feel they can make a buck off of. The point I was making about the conference in Kansas City in relation to CAPA, is that at least 3 CAPA board members so far are speaking there. And they wonder why their organization is imploding...yet they remain indignant and quick to blame other researchers for their demise. (See attached picture) As for Judyth, she was at the Midwest Conference last year as a featured speaker, she is featured prominently on their website, they obviously endorse her and her story. The reason she is not back this year is likely because she could have sued Denton and company for her supposed fall last year, but instead decided to bilk her followers for thousands of dollars to pay for her "injuries"
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11 hours ago, Vince Palamara said:
I guess I am thinking about a few people who make statements like "no one associated with CAPA should be caught dead near her conference!"
Epic fail---several board members are!
And Walt, perhaps Judyth's number one critic, doesn't mind the publisher association. No biggie to me, but some would say "ewww-why publish on 'her' label?"
If folks are given a choice of conferences that are going on at the same time, that both charge an expensive entry fee (which I understand, venues cost money...sometimes speakers need costs covered) then I would say they are competing entities. I see Wecht, Newman, and Aguilar are speaking in Kansas City now for Denton and company...anywhere there is a podium huh? Unbelievable...its no wonder CAPA is doomed. The main issue here is that Judyth Baker is a provable fraud and huckster who has shylocked her way into the position she is in now. Soliciting thousands of dollars from her cult like following of believers by claiming everything from deadly spider bites, needing surgery she never got, a motorized scooter she doesn't use, and CIA sponsored hacking of her computers and bank accounts...its laughable. And anyone associating themselves with her or her conference, should be ashamed. Would you speak at the James Files Conference Vince? How bout the Loy Factor Conference? Over the years it has been the "fringe" conference, supporting views of the LBJ did it crowd, Oswald in the doorway, limo stop, Z film alteration, watch finding, and every other debunked and disproved theory you can imagine. Now, because Judyth/Trine Day aligned herself with the "JFK Historical Group", another laughable ragtag group of questionable researchers with an official sounding name, they attract more speakers who previously wouldn't have given her the time of day. Speaking at her conference or associating yourself with her, is validating her existence. The pathetic excuse that CAPA didnt ask me to speak, but she did, and I got a nice shiny award for the mantle...doesnt fly, it's a choice. CAPA has no one to blame but themselves for this debacle...and people like you that choose a podium over a chair, have no one else to blame for the rise of Judyth Baker leading the conference scene in Dallas...enjoy that for years to come!
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According to CAPA member Bill Kelly, there was big blowup at the last CAPA meeting over the blowback from the Oliver Stone/Judyth Baker debacle. Even capitulating that JFK Conferences LLC should pick up half of Oliver Stone's travel, lodging expenses and speaking fee. Because of the blowback, Kelly is blaming critics of the 2019 CAPA conference for its impending demise. I offer that they brought it upon themselves cavorting with Judyth and recognizing her conference as legitimate. The simple fact that their own Chairman of the Board Cyril Wecht, chose to speak at her conference, AND speak on the Grassy Knoll with her group..and it was her group doing the Knoll ceremony along with other noted fraud Beverly Oliver, coupled with Oliver Stone spending more time over there at her conference than at CAPA that are the main issues here. If CAPA goes, this leaves fraud Judyth Baker the sole Dallas-based conference. As Bill so eloquently said..."Congratulations" 🙄 This is what it has come to...if you cant do and run the Dallas conference correctly and successfully, then maybe it is time to go. Hell...even John Newman is speaking at the next JudyCon/TrineDay/JFKHistoricalGroup conference in April in Kansas City...Really guys?
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3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Rob:
I understand the inclination against Rivera.
But he was not the first guy to point out the problems with this application. David Josephs was.
Just as David was the first to point out the importance of Ochoa and Echeveria and pasting together a phony trial of evidence about Oswald traveling to and from Mexico City..
Ahhh.... so he nicked David's research with no credit? Why am I not suprised? 🙄
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Oswald, or whomever was impersonating him, made several trips to the Cuban Embassy. One explanation for the similar documents are different visa application numbers. Supposedly Duran had to help "Oswald" fill out his application...maybe something was wrong on his first attempt and had to fill out another on returning to the embassy. The visa application numbers to me look different. The official one is supposed to be 779. The beginning seven of each number looks different. Rivera is alleging both numbers to be 779, this does not appear to be the case. It also explains two different versions of the signatures. While not identical in size, the identifiers of how he wrote his "L"s, "H"s, and "O"s being the same. These documents were signed by the same person...Oswald or not. With one being an official one with the stamp, the other probably placed in a file and turned over with whatever else was in the Consulate paperwork file. I would also add that Rivera does not say where the other document was found or comes from. With his past track record of questionable research...i.e. The JFK Horsemen and alleging a limo stop long enough to for a motorcylcle cop to get off his bike and pick up a piece of skull and the whole Altgens 6 allegations of fakery with massive alteration going on to turn LHO into Billy Lovelady, association with Fetzer, CInque, and Hooke, I take his "research" with a grain of salt.
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4 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:
The rifle has been always a major issue and the reason for Buell Wesley Frazier's misty descriptions. If there would be no rifle in the Depository which could be linked to Lee Oswald, there would be no way of pinning the killing of the President on Oswald. Lee Oswald had to come to contact with that rifle in some way and even bring it to the building. Had Buell Wesley Frazier not witnessed Lee Oswald bringing the rifle, Mr Frazier would not even need to mention the long package he and his sister allegedly had seen. The fact that Mr Frazier did mention the package means that he was privy to a critical piece of information regarding how the rifle was brought to the building.
One possibility, which I have developed in one other thread ("Curtain rods story revisited"), would be that the two lads brought the rifle at some point earlier on a different day. This is what Lee Oswald's statements from his final interrogation suggest. According to the postal inspector Holmes, Lee Oswald told the interrogators that the package that contained his lunch was big (oversized) and that Frazier's description of bringing a long package may have referred to a different occasion. Lee said that the bag contained lunch and was oversized for the volume of his lunch it contained. Mr Frazier also mentioned to Pat Speer and maybe to other people that Lee could have brought his rifle in pieces before November 22. Thus, Mr Frazier knew that Lee had brought a rifle and that that rifle could have been used in the assassination - we do not know what information the two young lads discussed regarding the rifle.
Oswald could have been told to plant that rifle in the bulding...remember, it was purchased by AJ Hidell, a Castro sympathizer and supporter. Oswald may not have thought the rifle could ever be traced back to him. Maybe he was told of a plot to just shoot at and scare Kennedy into taking action against Castro, the rifle would be found and tied back to the mysterious Hidell. Oswald could have told Frazier a myriad of reasons to bring the gun to work. Rifles had been brought into the TSBD the day before and shown to Roy Truly. Maybe he told Frazier he was going to drop it off after work to get worked on? Maybe he told Frazier someone was going to buy it...it doesn't have to be ominous, he could have told Frazier anything. This whole rifle in pieces thing is ridiculous...the stock was only 4" or 5" shorter than it would be fully assembled. The juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze...
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2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:
Rob I've thought for years it was the other way around. He didn't surround himself with the buffers. They surrounded him, on behalf of their employers, to make sure he towed the mark and walked the line.
Oh no...I've always wondered why he has been resistant to talking to researchers. Even back when Lane was doing his thing, Frazier wouldn't talk to him. If you read the notes from the HSCA investigators, they had quite a time pinning him down and getting him to talk to them. Ducking and dodging them, many times of him not showing up when he was supposed to, postponements, lawyers getting involved... He's been looked at for years as this hapless guy that happened to be in the wrong place, with the wrong person, at the time. He is the only living witness who REALLY knows for sure whether Oswald brought a rifle in a package to work. As a rifle owner and hunter, and being around guns in Texas your whole life, you know darn well what a rifle in a hard shell case, soft shell case, leather case, canvas case, or wrapped in a freaking brown paper looks like. Oswald didnt have curtain rods, didnt need them, denied the story, and none were found. No 2 foot, thin dime store bag was found in the TSBD. That means one of two things...either Oswald had a rifle in a heavier type brown paper bag and Frazier knew it, lied about it because he didnt want to get pulled into all this, or Oswald didnt have a package or gun at all...PERIOD. It's as simple as that. EITHER WAY, HE'S BEEN LYING FOR 56 YEARS. We are running out of time for the truth!
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11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Question: Why did it take 57 years for the guy who drove Oswald to work to write a book?
I have my suspicions...😋 He darn sure did NOT want to talk to the HSCA, and tried to avoid them at all costs. I have also heard from several respected and serious researchers who tried to ask him the hard questions, that he shut them down very quickly. He has had a line for all these years, and he tows it well. Surrounds himself with buffers like Aynesworth and Perry and lawyers of course.
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Who's excited for this? Will he finally come clean, or will Aynesworth's influence have him towing the company line? He should be used to waiting on steps...😉
My vote for title would be... "A Mile in My Moccasins" 😆
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12 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:
Last, my thread on here about Two Oswald's In the Texas Theater went way deeper than I ever imagined. Educating me immensely. Thanks to all who participated. Happy New Year.
Thank you for those Ron! Can you post a link to that thread? I'd love to peruse...
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1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:
The Malcolm Blunt/Bart Kamp release of FBI SA James Hosty’s notes on Oswald’s interview in custody, underlining his alibi that he went outside to watch the “P. parade.”
I wholeheartedly agree...matching this with Fritz's notes as well, it's clear he stated he had an alibi that they deep-sixed. After he was dead, it was never mentioned or explored again.
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Just wondering what the members considered the best revelation, best research, or the best book that was released or came to light in 2019 would be in their opinion?
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1 hour ago, Paul Jolliffe said:
It is not up to you or I to explain how the Mannlicher-Carcano came into the possession of the FBI on the evening of November 22, nor to explain anything relating to that rifle.
The Backyard Photos story has been worked over extensively elsewhere. Suffice to say, nothing is certain about the provenance of those photos. Even the Warren Commission couldn't come up with a plausible, complete story - they knew nothing of 133-C!
It was up to the Warren Commission to show, step-by-step, document by document, exactly how "Oswald" came to order, pay for, store, practice with and finally possess that rifle on November 22, let alone how, when and where he "hid" it up until 12:30 pm in the TSBD. Not only could they not do it, they had to resort to asking Marina to "identify" the Mannlicher-Carcano as belonging to her husband! This, of course, was absurd.
They had exactly zero evidence to link that rifle to "Oswald" that summer and fall.
And honestly Rob, nor do you.
1) We don't have to explain it. It's in the photographic record. It was found on the 6th floor of the depository, we have video of it in situ (Aleya), we have photos of it being carried out of the TSBD. Unless of course, as you believe, multiple DPD, FBI, and members of the press conspired to cover up the finding of a rifle that wasn't a Mannlicher Carcano?
2) I understand there are problems with the provenance of the rifle, but they surely carried one out of the aTSBD on Nov.22, 1963, which means it got there by someone who likely worked there. Unless of course, as you believe, some super sneaky CIA guy or Byrd associate snuck in under the cover of darkness and planted it there.
3) The WC did manage to "do it", whether through illicit or legitimate means, they managed to illustrate "how" he ordered the rifle and paid for it. Is there problems with the evidence? Yes, very much so. But both Marina and George DeM saw the rifle and knew he had it. Marina admits to taking at least one of the backyard photos.
4) So Marina is lying about the photos, lying about the rifle, lying about the Walker letter, lying about his instructions to her if caught, somebody planted a photo of Walker's house in Oswald's belongings?
5) There are allegations by Garland Slack about Frazier and Oswald being at the gun range together...there's your practicing
6) We can disagree, but your speculation is based on what... Reluctance to believe? Your super huge grand conspiracy theory that has all these macabre forces teaming up together to pull off the old bait and switch is just absurd, and you have no evidence at all to back it up.
What is Going on Here?
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Rob Clark
Dear Moderators,
Why was a thread about a JFK Assassination Podcast that is LITERALLY wall-to-wall JFK assassination discussion and debate, moved from the JFK Assassination Debate forum to the Deep Politics dead forum? The thread could have been used to share documents discussed during the show and allow for discord of topics discussed, but I'm not going to waste the effort if no one is ever going to see it.
It's relevance to the subject at hand is "assuredly" more profound than the topics listed below.
From the first five pages of topics on this forum....
I'd be grateful for an explanation from a moderator.