Jim Hargrove

That is just not the case. The law required that the school records be obtained via the school boards - and that's exactly what happened. They were not "confiscated" which is a term meant to mislead people into believing there was something nefarious about obtaining those records. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCz5_bd3R6g

As you know, DJ, it's remarkable how many experienced researchers are still unaware of the FBI's work cooking the evidence less than 24 hours after the assassination. Many researchers still don't know that, in the wee hours of the night of Nov. 22/Nov. 23, the FBI secretly confiscated all of Oswald's "possessions" from Dallas Police Headquarters, flew them to D.C. in the dead of night, played with them for three long days, and then secretly returned them to Dallas, all before "Oswald's possessions" were OFFICIALLY handed over to the FBI on November 26! I'm still not allowed to upload any graphics here, but the proof of this secret transfer is shown by the WC/FBI's alteration of the testimony of James Cadigan. That altered testimony can be seen here, about halfway down the page: http://harveyandlee.net/FBI/FBI.html What is remarkable about the FBI's behavior in this remarkable case is that its agents, within 72 hours of the assassination, were confiscating ALL of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" teenage employment and school records, before even attempting to discover if other high ranking government officials were in danger of assassination, or if the assassination involved conspirators other than the official patsy. ALL of the original versions of the teenage Oswald records, by the way, forever disappeared. Not a single original document remains in the National Archives. This gets at, among so many other things, what all those HSCA handwriting experts were complaining about when they said they were not shown original documents. Thanks for doing so much heavy lifting on this school records stuff.

Paul, Thank you for your thoughtful response. We agree on a lot, and I'll try to get back asap with a more complete follow-up, but here are just three quick rebuttal points: First, I'm pretty sure that Robert Webster was not even in the Navy, and so it seems unlikely that the managers of both his and Oswald's parallel false defections called ONI their home. Second, Gerald Ford's description of The Commission's "First Shock" was hardly the same as the accusation made by Mr. Tanenbaum. In Portrait of the Assassin, Mr. Ford claims only that Carr made the charge that Oswald was an "undercover agent" for the FBI. He leaves the accusation of CIA involvement up to Marguerite. It's funny, though, that throughout the remainder of the book, Ford fails to directly and positively refute either accusation. Last, just because the Oswalds were not CIA Officers is hardly an indication that they weren't what we would call full time employees. This is a very enjoyable talk, and I hope we can keep it going. Thanks again!

Sure, Tracy, but if we all believed the U.S. government could be trusted investigating itself, none of us would be here.

We may just have to agree to disagree, Paul, but to me the connection of “Lee Harvey Oswald” to the CIA is obvious both by circumstantial evidence and by sworn testimony. In fact, I argue (as John A. does more thoroughly) that what CIA accountant James Wilcott called “the Oswald Project” was, in fact, a creation of American Intelligence involving two young men using the same identity. But let's back up a bit…. You wrote that Oswald “never got that job with the CIA he had been promised.” That is an interesting thought, but it is hard to accept that all he did was done as part of some elaborate job application. That strikes me as unlikely. Although Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was indeed, as you say, poor as a church mouse most of his short life, it is weird how well he travelled to Russia, staying at top-notch European hotels and hiring expensive private tour guides once in Moscow. There is no evidence that he ever before or after lived so well. The Warren Commision told us Oswald used his Marine Corps income to finance—barely-- his “defection,” but failed to tell us that much of that income was in non-convertible military script. The information on Robert Webster was not included primarily to discuss Marina's English skills but to show that the striking similarites of the false “defections” of Robert Webster and “Lee Harvey Oswald,” strongly suggesting that both were under the same management. Can you suggest any managerial candidates other than the CIA? Why wasn't Oswald arrested for espionage when he returned to the U.S? Why was he allowed by the U.S. to “defect” yet again just weeks before the assassination of JFK? CIA accountant James Wilcott swore under oath in secret testimony to the HSCA that he was told by other CIA employees at his station in Japan that money he had personally disbursed to an encrypted account was for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.” HSCA counsel Robert Tanenbaum testified to the ARRB that he read a WC secret transcript of a conversation in which the Attorney General of Texas, Henry Wade the District Attorney, and Leon Jaworsky, counsel to the Attorney General, told Earl Warren that Oswald was a contract agent of both the CIA and the FBI. You wrote, “There is no way that Oswald could have been made the Patsy of the JFK murder if he was a bona fide CIA Officer.” Oswald was hardly a bona fide CIA officer. Instead, the evidence suggests he was a paid operative, of both the FBI and the CIA. And here's where the evil genious of the assassination plot becomes most clear. No doubt we will both agree that if you are plotting to murder the president of the United States, you simply have to have a pre-ordained fall guy. If not, the hunt for you will be relentless. It will not stop until you're caught. Unless you can figure out a way to shut down the investigation quickly, you will be doomed. What better way than to pick a patsy, and plant some evidence, even if it doesn't hold up well to scrutiny, against a guy with ties to both Hoover's FBI and the CIA? Assuming he wasn't one of the plotters, what do you suppose Hoover's reaction was when he realized that his own contract employee had been set up for the hit? Does anyone here disagree that the "Oswald project," as CIA accountant James Wilcott referred to it, was a creation of American Intelligence?

Anyone who knows how wealthy John Armstrong is (from his oil business and his custom home building work) would know that the income from book sales are irrelevant to his true wealth.

Yo, Porker, John A's newest research... about the two Steven Landesbergs... will be ready for publication as early as tomorrow or Monday, and will be posted RIGHT HERE, along with the newest DEFECTION PHOTO info and TONSILS REPORT data on LHO. Again, Porker (YOU LOOK SO MUCH THINNER IN YOUR BS PHOTO) ... please make posts soon along the lines of your FRANKENSTEIN OSWALD!! And by all means... DON'T CLICK HERE! And remember.... WE LOVE YOU!!! Bye-bye...

Yo, Parker .... Now that this "Frankenstein Oswald" thread has backfired on you so horribly, what is your new plan? Do you have one? Please post it ASAP, so we can destroy it, too! WE WANT TO ENGAGE... ESPECIALLY WITH YOU. AND PLEASE REMEMBER.... WE LOVE YOU!! Also, don't forget your usual advice ... DO NOT CLICK HERE! Magic Tonsils coming back real soon!

Well, Greg, there's a certain amount of truth to that, if only a little. Your work inspired me to vastly expand the 1959 "Defection" photo section... all the orginal stuff is still there, and much more. See it here: http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Defection_Photo_Evolution.html and here: http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html And, for the hundreds and hundreds of posts you've made here and elsewhere discussing Oswald's Magic Tonsils, I've decided to put the tonsillectomy evidence back up on the website ASAP. Should be ready in a day or two. Just wanted to make it clear how helpful you have been. Thanks!

We may just have to agree to disagree, Paul, but to me the connection of “Lee Harvey Oswald” to the CIA is obvious both by circumstantial evidence and by sworn testimony. In fact, I argue (as John A. does more thoroughly) that what CIA accountant James Wilcott called “the Oswald Project” was, in fact, a creation of American Intelligence involving two young men using the same identity. But let's back up a bit…. You wrote that Oswald “never got that job with the CIA he had been promised.” That is an interesting thought, but it is hard to accept that all he did was done as part of some elaborate job application. That strikes me as unlikely. Although Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was indeed, as you say, poor as a church mouse most of his short life, it is weird how well he travelled to Russia, staying at top-notch European hotels and hiring expensive private tour guides once in Moscow. There is no evidence that he ever before or after lived so well. The Warren Commision told us Oswald used his Marine Corps income to finance—barely-- his “defection,” but failed to tell us that much of that income was in non-convertible military script. The information on Robert Webster was not included primarily to discuss Marina's English skills but to show that the striking similarites of the false “defections” of Robert Webster and “Lee Harvey Oswald,” strongly suggesting that both were under the same management. Can you suggest any managerial candidates other than the CIA? Why wasn't Oswald arrested for espionage when he returned to the U.S? Why was he allowed by the U.S. to “defect” yet again just weeks before the assassination of JFK? CIA accountant James Wilcott swore under oath in secret testimony to the HSCA that he was told by other CIA employees at his station in Japan that money he had personally disbursed to an encrypted account was for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.” HSCA counsel Robert Tanenbaum testified to the ARRB that he read a WC secret transcript of a conversation in which the Attorney General of Texas, Henry Wade the District Attorney, and Leon Jaworsky, counsel to the Attorney General, told Earl Warren that Oswald was a contract agent of both the CIA and the FBI. You wrote, “There is no way that Oswald could have been made the Patsy of the JFK murder if he was a bona fide CIA Officer.” Oswald was hardly a bona fide CIA officer. Instead, the evidence suggests he was a paid operative, of both the FBI and the CIA. And here's where the evil genious of the assassination plot becomes most clear. No doubt we will both agree that if you are plotting to murder the president of the United States, you simply have to have a pre-ordained fall guy. If not, the hunt for you will be relentless. It will not stop until you're caught. Unless you can figure out a way to shut down the investigation quickly, you will be doomed. What better way than to pick a patsy, and plant some evidence, even if it doesn't hold up well to scrutiny, against a guy with ties to both Hoover's FBI and the CIA? Assuming he wasn't one of the plotters, what do you suppose Hoover's reaction was when he realized that his own contract employee had been set up for the hit?

Although I'm still looking for one more photo, the Harvey and Lee Website's expanded coverage of the "Frankenstein Oswald" image used by a Ft. Worth newspaper covering Harvey Oswald's so-called "defection" is essentially complete. The "Evolution of the 'Defection' Photo" page can be seen here: http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Defection_Photo_Evolution.html There is also a shorter version of this information on the above link's parent page: http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html Thanks go to David Josephs for his valuable help providing additional images and to Greg Parker for bringing up the subject in the first place.

Absolutely! And look how effectively that Wilderness of Mirrors has worked for more than fifty years. You take what is fundamentally an obvious spy game, and even after it has been been subjected to far, far more scrutiny than it was ever supposed to receive, most of us are still unaware of the basic facts. That was part of the genius behind setting up “Lee Harvey Oswald” as the patsy. With the Oswald Project's connection to both the Agency and Hoover's FBI, it was clear that a real government investigation into the assassination would be shut down before it started. Thus you have FBI agents confiscating Oswald school records and teen-aged employment records within hours of the assassination, with no apparent thought given to potential co-conspirators or even to whether other government officials were being targeted. Compare that to the 9/11 attack, which kept President Bush in the air for many hours and Cheney in some “undisclosed bunker” for days.

Mods.... "David's crap" is about the only truth here. Are you really surrendering this whole site to Greg Parker and his minions? Will you NEVER stop the BLEEDING?

Are you saying that you agree that "Lee Harvey Oswald" or the "Oswald Project" or whatever we should call it was a creature of American Intelligence??!! My bet is that you clearly don't have permission to say that, even way down there in Australia!

Hi, Paul, Yes, thank you, I've heard and read that position before, often presented by people who know every bit or more about this case than I do. But I simply find the explanation unlikely. After all, Occam's razor would suggest that if it looks, walks, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck--rather than something else masquerading as one or trying to somehow become one. My opinion is that Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald trained for his entire adult (and almost adult) life for his undercover assignment in Russia, and when he failed to impress the Comrades-in-charge there, he was so despondent that he tried, or almost tried, to commit suicide. That's pretty far to go for a wannabe. I posted this once before, so please forgive the repetition, but here is one of my favorite short passages from Harvey and Lee: NOTE: In a 1997 interview Robert Webster told JFK researcher and author Dick Russell that he met Marina Prusakova in Moscow in the summer of 1959 and spoke with her in English. Webster said that Marina spoke English well, but with a heavy accent. A year after Webster was sent to Leningrad by the Soviet Government, 400 miles from Moscow, he met Marina again shortly after he applied for an exit visa so that he could return to the US. [interview of Robert Webster by Dick Russell at Cape Cod, MA. 1997] Marina's friend in Dallas, Katya Ford, said that when she asked Marina why Oswald went to Russia, Marina told her that he worked for the Rand Corporation and helped set up the American exhibit at the World Trade Exposition in Moscow.[WC Document 5, p. 259; FBI interview of Katherine Ford by SA James P. Hosty, 11/24/63] Marina had momentarily confused Harvey Oswald with Robert Webster, the 1st US "defector," whom she met in Moscow (1959) and again in Leningrad (1960). It is not a coincidence that both Webster and Oswald "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the Spring of 1962. These US "defectors," acting in perfect harmony, were both working for the CIA. --H&L p. 799 Just my take (and JA's).

"Someone"? "Probably"? "Speculation"? And all that was needed was for someone to come up with a little cash to buy the "retransmission" photo and the whole plot comes tumbling down. SPY GAMES? Utter madness... Right! Thinking "Lee Harvey Oswald" was a SPY is UTTER MADNESS!!! I believe you!!! Let's review why you are so right about this.... So here's our Russian-speaking kid, who "defects" to Russia traveling with the non-convertible military script he'd saved from his days as a U.S. Marine Communist. On a Saturday, when the U.S. embassy in Moscow simply can't do much business, he unsuccessfully denounces his U.S. citizenship and says he'll tell the Russkies everything he knows, which apparently would include knowledge from his days as a U.S. Marine Communist monitoring top secret U-2 flights in Japan. When Russian authorities are apparently unimpressed by his Communist tendencies, they tell him to go home, forcing our boy to attempt "suicide." When he eventually does go home, the State Department loans him the money to get here. Instead of being arrested for espionage, our favorite Marine Communist soon moves to New Orleans and starts hanging out with virulent anti-communists, where he expresses his deep love for Cuba and Castro. Before traveling to Dallas to become a self-proclaimed world-famous patsy, he allegedly is allowed by the U.S. to travel to Mexico City, where he could "defect" yet again! Lee Harvey Oswald a SPY?? HOW CAN YOU EVEN CONSIDER IT?? UTTER MADNESS INDEED!!

Does the man in the FWST photo look ANYTHING like a man who was impersonating Lee Harvey Oswald? Yes or no. Why won't you answer that? What are you so scared of revealing? Insults won't change your inability to answer that question... Thank you for making our point! No, the man in the FWST "defection" photo does not look much like "Lee Harvey Oswald." Why, because it has OBVIOUSLY been messed with. The original photo (EF software won't allow me to post any graphics right now) of American-born Lee Oswald standing in front of barracks of some sort does show a man who looks reasonably like the guy shot by Jack Ruby, but the image for the "Defection" photo has been altered. Don't you get it? This is all a SPY GAME! Someone, probably one of those numerous CIA media assets we've all heard about, got the newspaper to post a washed-out version of the photo so people, at least at some point, wouldn't recognize the spy games that were being played. Not until John A came up with a little cash to buy the "retransmission" photo from AP/Wide World did the full scope of what had occurred come to light. It's speculation, but John suspects Hugh Aynesworth as the guy who got the ball rolling with the wash-out photo.

As I have posted previous, at the time Oswald had his operation, he was under 8 and the norm was for partial removal only. The biggest risk to regrowth was to kids under 8 (when tonsils are more or less fully grown) and only partially removed. Nothing remotely unlikely about them growing back in his case. Nice try. Got anything on topic? Sorry to continue the off-topic interruption, but I showed Greg the following article some time ago. This peer-reviewed professional medical monologue indicates that "complete removal of the tonsil has been accepted" in both the U.S. and Europe since 1910 or so. ============== QUOTE ON =================== A HISTORY OF TONSILLECTOMY: TWO MILLENIA OF TRAUMA, HAEMORRHAGE AND CONTROVERSY By RONALD ALASTAIR McNENLL, M.B., B.Ch. Senior House Officer in Surgery, Royal Victoria Hospital, Belfast .... The first sign of a permanent change from partial to complete removal of the tonsils came in 1897. Ballenger in the U.S.A. realised that partial removal failed to alleviate symptoms completely in a large majority of cases. He began to remove the tonsil with its capsule, using a scalpel and forceps. His results, using this new technique, were so much better than partial removal, for a time the guillotine fell into disrepute in America. Some ten years later, dissection tonsillectomy was pioneered in this country by George Waugh of Children's Hospital, Great Ormond Street. In 1909 he published, in the Lancet, his account of nine hundred cases of dissecting out the tonsils complete with capsule, using fine dissecting forceps and curved scissors. The operation was performed with the patient lying on his back with the head extended. The tongue was held out of the way with a stitch, and the mouth held open with a gag between the last molar teeth. Waugh became a great opponent of guillotine tonsillectomy, giving his reasons in these words: "Even in highly skilled and experienced hands, the complete removal of tonsils by means of a guillotine is a task of such technical difficulty as to be, except in a few rare cases, quite impossible." In the following year Whillis and Pybus in Britain and Sluder in America pointed out that a guillotine with a fairly blunt blade instead of a sharp one could be used in such a way as to enucleate the tonsil complete in its capsule. Whillis and Pybus gave the following figures for their series: Tonsil completely enucleated in its capsule - - - 74% ,,,, capsule incomplete - - 13.5% in two pieces - - 9% in three pieces - - 0.5% Incompletely enucleated - - - - - 3% From this time onwards the value of complete removal of the tonsil has been accepted. ================= QUOTE OFF ================

So, yet another inconvenient witness gets the Parker Treatment. And speaking of "Frankenstein Oswald...." Everyone is invited to take look at the best image available, according to Associated Press/Wide World Photos, of the 1959 "Defection" photo of "Lee Harvey Oswald." Just click on this link: http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Defection.html Does that look like the man killed by Jack Ruby to you?

Rather than talk about the "jawline" and "possibly other features as well," why don't you just point out that the entire background has been removed? An entire set of windows is gone. Retouched? DUH!! Ask the CIA media asset who surely slipped this photo into the public record why the picture was doctored. John suspects Hugh Aynesworth. And while you're on your excellent mission of discovery.... Why don't you see if you can discover where Wide World Photos/Associated Press is located and send them a letter? Ask them to send you the best image available of the 1959 "Lee Harvey Oswald" "defection" photo that appeared in the Nov 1 and Nov 16, 1959 editions of the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram. Why don't you ask the wire service what a "retransmission" to "provide better copy" means; that's what the print label attached by Wide World Photos/AP says. You just posted the photo on page 15 of this thread. Don't you even read what you post? Thank you again for your help improving the Harvey and Lee website!

No doubt Greg Parker will soon declare he has been attacked by numerous viruses. He seems to make fast recoveries, but I nevertheless wish him Good Health! Thanks again, Greg!

Gee, Greg, you should do something about your obvious Anger Issues! We still LOVE YOU! And we do appreciate your help improving the H&L Website!!!!! You really have helped us by asking tough questions about the 1959 "defection" photos. As a personal THANK YOU, and even though it is far from ready, I am hereby offering the Greg Parker Memorial "1959 Defection Photo" Website to everyone here on the Education Forum right now!! Here is the link, still obviously a work in progress and so far, far from perfect: http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Defection.html Thanks to Greg Parker, this site will be so much better very soon. Thanks again to Greg Parker!

Excuse me? All John did was place the actual Wide World wire photo, which was a “retransmission” to “provide better copy” in its proper place on top of the original washed-out photo, which is what the newspaper should have done in the first place. He should be thanked for giving researchers a true look at the retransmitted photo that was unnoticed for all these years. That said, John and I want everyone to know just how helpful you have been in making our Marines to Minsk page so much better than it was just a few weeks ago. We genuinely thank you for that! I'm in the process of making a little mini-page that will feature only the defection photos, and a description of the spy game that unfolded right there! You'll see it linked prominently right here as early as tomorrow or the following day. Thanks again, amigo! STAY TUNED FOR THE ALL-NEW 1959 “DEFECTION” PHOTO WEB PAGE, AS INSPIRED BY OUR FRIEND GREG PARKER!

Does anyone here really think "Frankenstein Oswald" is a picture of the guy killed by Jack Ruby? C'mon, men! Tell us how you think "Frankenstein Oswald" is just the spittin' image of our boy!!

It's pretty much spelled out in the book. I located a copy of Lee Oswald's photo in the archives of the Fort Worth Star­-Telegram. There was no notation as to the origin or source of this photo, yet it was pub­lished in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram only one day after Oswald's "defection." When I asked for a copy of the photo, I was told to get in touch with Wide World Photos, Rockefeller Plaza, New York City. I wrote a letter and asked Wide World Pho­tos if they knew the source of the photo. They responded and said they did not know the source of the photo. So, how did the Fort Worth Star-Telegram get this photo only one day after Oswald's "defection." .... The photo of Lee Oswald that appeared in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram on November 1, 1959 appeared again in the November 26th issue of the Evening Star, in Washington D.C. This time the photo was credited to the Associated Press (AP), yet they claim to have no record of it's origin. The origin of this photo, published within 24 hours of Aline Mosby's interview with Oswald in Moscow, remains unknown. NOTE: Once again information about Oswald, in this case a photo, was given to the media by an unidentified source only one day after his "defection." The most likely source was a CIA media asset. --H&L 272-273