Jim Hargrove

Adding credence to Sylvia Odio's story of meeting ex-Marine "Leon Oswald" and the two Cubans (at the same time "Lee Harvey Oswald" is supposed to be on a bus to Mexico City) is how dishonest the FBI was in trying to discredit her. An alleged FBI interview with Loran Eugene Hall seemed to indicate that Hall and Lawrence Howard and William Seymour were actually the three men who visited Sylvia and her sister. But when the FBI interviewed Seymour, he said he'd never heard of Sylvia Odio and, in fact, was nowhere near Dallas on any date within weeks of the "Leon Oswald" encounter with Odio. Employment records from Seymour's job in Miami, Florida confirmed that he was there--not in Dallas--from Sept. 5 through Oct. 10. Despite the fact that the FBI was well aware of this problem with the Hall/Howard/Seymour saga, the FBI used the original Seymour story in a message to the WC to try and indicate Odio was mistaken. Warren Commission defenders always like to talk about "Occam's Razor," you know, that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. So here's an exercise in this form of logic: How many times does a "Lee Harvey Oswald" have to be impersonated before we begin to wonder if there is a simpler explanation?

The "Marines to Minsk" page on the Harvey and Lee Website has just been revised to include new material on the 1959 "defection" photo. A total of three images show how the washed-out version of the "Frankenstein" image was published in the Ft. Worth newspaper, how Wide World Photos re-transmitted a much clearer version of the "Frankenstein" image, and how the clearer image would have appeared had it been used on the 1959 FWST newspaper article. The images can be seen about three-quarters of the way down on this page: http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html

The significance of the Landesberg saga is that his alleged relationship with Oswald occurred in late 1961 and early 1962 in New York City, when Classic Oswald was in the Soviet Union. Just as they did for Ralph Leon Yates in Dallas at about the same, Landesberg's legal and "mental" problems began in earnest when he told authorities he interacted with Oswald in one place at the same time Oswald clearly was clearly in a different place. In the Dec. 6, 1963 edition, The New York Times reported the Landesberg story under the headline "New Yorker is held for tricking FBI." The Sept. 1996 edition of The Fourth Decade has a lengthy article about Landesberg which can be read here: http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48695#relPageId=26&tab=page

To Kathy Beckett.... Thank you. That explanation makes sense. But when a platform is given for members to make scurrilous and easily disprovable claims such as I am giving them viruses with links to clean .jpg files, it is easy to get over-excited. Thanks again.

From the conclusion of Harvey and Lee: The murder and cover-up of the assassination of President Kennedy, and the political murders which began in the 1960's and continue to this day, are symptomatic of a corrupt and unconstitutional government. The CIA's manipulation of government officials, ballot boxes, their complete disregard for human rights, and their unconstitu­tional and illegal activities will continue as long as they are given unlimited taxpayer dollars, allowed to operate with anonymity, and their officials are given Presidential pardons when convicted of crimes. The old farmer from Missouri, former President Harry S. Truman, was correct when he called the Agency an "American Gestapo." ******************* In the fall of 1994 a schoolteacher at Northside Middle School in Roanoke, Virginia, Mr. Richard Duncan, wrote a letter to President Kennedy's former secretary, Evelyn Lincoln, asking about the assassination of President Kennedy. On October 7, 1994, Ms. Lincoln replied and wrote: Dear Richard, It was a pleasure to receive your kind letter concerning your desire to obtain my assessment of President Kennedy's administration and assassination to pass along to your students. I am sending along to you an article which was written by Muriel Press­man for the "Lady's Circle" October 1964, and was recently reprinted in a current issue of that magazine, which will give you an insight into my impression of the man. As for the assassination is concerned it is my belief that there was a con­spiracy because there were those that disliked him and felt the only way to get rid of him was to assassinate him. These five conspirators, in my opinion, were Lyndon B. Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover, the Mafia, the CIA, and the Cubans in Florida. The House Intelligence Committee investigation, also, came to the conclusion there was a conspiracy. My very best wishes to you and your students. Sincerely, Evelyn Lincoln .

Well, Steven, the Education Forum refuses to let me PM you! You have worked hard for H&L, but you will NOT be allowed to SUCCEED!!!! EF has spoken, and that's it!

If the Forum Software allows you to send me private messages, Steven, please send me an email address for you. If not, we'll work it out! Why is this so hard???

EH? I'd just like to hear THE TRUTH... JUST ONCE!

Aw, Steven... Let's find a way to talk! If you can PM me, send me your email address in private. If you can't PM me, let's ask Don J for help! But for cryin' out loud, let's talk!!

To Steven Gaal.... I tried to PM you via this forum's software, but it said you couldn't receive private messages. So... here's what I tried to send. ====================== QUOTE =========================== Hi, Steven, During our phone talk today, I mentioned to John A. about some of your posts, and somehow I started reading him one from several weeks old that was talking about "Oswald's" employment at Tujaque's. John asked me to send you the following excerpt from H&L and then he added a little more at the end. First the H&L excerpt, from p. 128: The duration of Lee Oswald's employment at Tujague's was established by his former supervisor, Frank DiBenedetto, a long time employee and close friend of the company's founder, Gerard F. Tujague. Frank was not interviewed by the Warren Commission but in 1978 told HSCA investigators, "Oswald worked at Tujague's for a year to a year and a half." NOTE: Frank's memory clearly conflicted with the Wa1Ten Commission, who reported that Oswald worked at Tujague's only two months from November 10, 1955 thru January 14, 1956. In 1995, after reading Frank's statement, I telephoned him in New Orleans and introduced myself. Frank repeated the same story to me that he told to the HSCA years earlier-that Oswald worked at Tujague's for "a year, maybe longer." He also remembered that Oswald quit Tujague's in the summer, when it was hot, so that he could join the Marines. I made an appointment to meet with Frank, and then traveled to New Orleans. When I met Frank he told me that Mr. Tujague died many years ago, and he had taken over the company after his death. T he company office was still located at 442 Canal Street, in the same building and on the same floor where Lee Oswald worked under Frank's supervision 40 years earlier. Frank remembered that (Lee) Oswald lived a couple of blocks away, on Exchange Place, and described him as well-built, approximately 5-foot-10, and with either dark brown or nearly black hair. Frank's description was very different from the thin, 4-foot-1 0 inch Harvey Oswald who worked with Maury Goodman, Rita Paveur, and Louis Marzialle at Dolly Shoe only three months earlier. Frank also suggested that I talk to former employee Jimmy Hudnell, who worked at Tujague's at the time of the assassination. When I located Jimmy he told me that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, shortly after the assassination, Mr. Tujague told employees in the office, "The FBI will probably be here soon, so you all can take the rest of the day off. ========================= QUOTE OFF ====================== Then John said this (approximately... I'm not very good at dictation): Frank's memory that Oswald began work at Tujaque's a year before he quit to join the Marines was confirmed by Robert Oswald. In July 1955, Robert Oswald lived for one week with his mother and brother on Exchange St. in New Orleans. Robert wrote in his book, Lee, that his brother was working for an import/export firm at the time. Lee Oswald working at Tujaque from July '55 through August/September '56 (before he joined the Marines in October) created an unexplainable timeline for the Warren Commission's version of "Lee Harvey Oswald" because the WC claimed that "Oswald" worked at Tujaques for two months, one week at J.R. Michels, and a few months at the Pfisterer Dental Lab before moving to Ft. Worth in June 1956. John wanted me to tell you this after I read him one of your old posts I happened to see, which was pretty damned interesting! Don't know how you find the energy to keep arguing with Parker and his minions. I'm feeling pretty old!

Moderators: Are these the kind of allegations you allow your members to be subjected to? Rocket science is not required to scan the files I linked and see that they are malware free. Professional webservers like Bluehost.com keep file logs which will show the three .jpg files in question are unaltered since I first uploaded them. Here is a repost of my reply to Parker's original allegations: ========================== QUOTE ON ============================== First of all, before put any files up on my website, I always check them with ClamAV, the a major open source malware detector for Linux-based machines. ClamAV reported "No Threat" for each of the three files. Second, as soon as I read Paker's "warning," I found a Windows machine and downloaded all three files using both Chrome and Internet Explorer browsers. Then I rebooted Windows to see if there was any indication that the Delta Home Virus had hijacked either browser's home page, which it hadn't. Signature files of the Delta Home malware also did not appear in Windows' list of running processes and apps. These are clear indications that the malware was not included in any of the three files. Finally, I double-checked with the host of HarveyandLee.net, a large Web hosting service called Bluehost.com. Here are selected portions of my chat with technical service: Chat ID: 4590482. Question: Provider: Bluehost - My Domain is: "HarveyandLee.net" Hi, I put up three .jpg files in a temporary directory this morning, and someone who doesn't like me claims they contain the Delta Homes virus. I see no evidence this is true. Is there anyway your server checks for this? The files are in the directory xxxxx/Temp and are named: FWST.jpg WW-Photo-1.jpg WW-Photo-2.jpg .... 11:24:53amJames Okay you are verified. Let us see what I can do for you. Give me just a moment to look at them, and see what I can find. I'll also get a malware scan running if I don't see anything directly. 11:25:33amJim Hargrove Thank you! I ran the latest version of ClamAV on all three files before uploading, and came up "no threats" 11:27:59amJames They don't seem to look bad to me, either. Just a moment, making sure with a scan. 11:34:12amJames Other than them being very interesting from a historical standpoint, I'm not seeing any evidence of malware or a virus on them. Let me get Terms of Service to run a deeper scan, see if there's something else. Will take me a moment to contact them. .... 12:04:45pmJames Scan's aren't showing any malware, from what we're seeing. So. Sure looks to me that the claim of malware in those files is BS, but if you think Parker is telling you the truth, then by all means don't download them. Personally, though, I think Parker doesn't want yoo see them. ================== QUOTE OFF ===================

Claiming that files I made available to everyone on this forum contained a virus is really the online equivalent of yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. Is that type of outright disinformation permitted here? I'm sure you moderators have all the tools you need to do the same thing I did: scan the linked image files and determine that they do NOT contain malware! Of course, I had to spend several hours this morning checking Mr. Parker's allegation three different ways in order to determine, with certainty, that his claim was simply false. Also, I only had the privilege of meeting Jack White in person a few times, but I will always treasure the memories. Some days ago, in the "Frankenstein" thread, I wrote in boldface: "Jack White had nothing to do with this!" And with the recent statements from John A. on exactly what happened, it's even clearer that Mr. White had nothing to do with it.

WARNING_ DO NOT OPEN THESE LINKS. YOUR COMPUTER WILL BECOME INFECTED WITH THE DELTA HOME VIRUS. Thanks a bunch for that Hargroves... Wow! Someone really wants to stop people from looking at these images! First of all, before put any files up on my website, I always check them with ClamAV, the a major open source malware detector for Linux-based machines. ClamAV reported "No Threat" for each of the three files. Second, as soon as I read Paker's "warning," I found a Windows machine and downloaded all three files using both Chrome and Internet Explorer browsers. Then I rebooted Windows to see if there was any indication that the Delta Home Virus had hijacked either browser's home page, which it hadn't. Signature files of the Delta Home malware also did not appear in Windows' list of running processes and apps. These are clear indications that the malware was not included in any of the three files. Finally, I double-checked with the host of HarveyandLee.net, a large Web hosting service called Bluehost.com. Here are selected portions of my chat with technical service: Chat ID: 4590482. Question: Provider: Bluehost - My Domain is: "HarveyandLee.net" Hi, I put up three .jpg files in a temporary directory this morning, and someone who doesn't like me claims they contain the Delta Homes virus. I see no evidence this is true. Is there anyway your server checks for this? The files are in the directory xxxxx/Temp and are named: FWST.jpg WW-Photo-1.jpg WW-Photo-2.jpg .... 11:24:53amJames Okay you are verified. Let us see what I can do for you. Give me just a moment to look at them, and see what I can find. I'll also get a malware scan running if I don't see anything directly. 11:25:33amJim Hargrove Thank you! I ran the latest version of ClamAV on all three files before uploading, and came up "no threats" 11:27:59amJames They don't seem to look bad to me, either. Just a moment, making sure with a scan. 11:34:12amJames Other than them being very interesting from a historical standpoint, I'm not seeing any evidence of malware or a virus on them. Let me get Terms of Service to run a deeper scan, see if there's something else. Will take me a moment to contact them. .... 12:04:45pmJames Scan's aren't showing any malware, from what we're seeing. So. Sure looks to me that the claim of malware in those files is BS, but if you think Parker is telling you the truth, then by all means don't download them. Personally, though, I think Parker doesn't want yoo see them.

Some years back John Armstrong copied the photo and text of LHO from the 11/1/59 edition of the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram. He thought the image of LHO was such poor quality that he visited the Star-Telegram and asked for the best image they had of the "defection" photo of "Lee Harvey Oswald" as it appeared in the November 1, 1959 edition of their newspaper. The Star-Telegram said he should contact Wide World Photos in New York City. John did so, paid a fee of $25, and received a print of the photo. He then used this photo in his presentations in Dallas, for the benefit of fellow researchers. I spoke to John a couple of days ago and he located in his files the original photo sent to him by Wide World. He scanned the front and back and sent the files to me. The image files are too large to upload here, but here are links to high-quality scans of both which can be compared to the original version that appeared in the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram of 11/1/59. (Note that the two Wide World Photo scans are quite large and may take several minutes to download into your browser.) Original 11/1/59 Image Wide World Photo Front Wide World Photo Back As you can see, Wide World's photo of "Lee Harvey Oswald" is NEARLY identical to the so-called "Frankenstein" face that has caused such consternation here. I say NEARLY identical because AP/Wide World Photos indicates, on the back of the original print: "This is a retransmission of FWI of Nov. 1 to provide better copy." This photo WAS THE ONLY PHOTO PROVIDED BY WIDE WORLD PHOTOS, AND LIKELY REPRESENTS the best version of the washed out image published BY THE FWST in 1959. Also in his files John found a copy of the original FWST article with the washed out photo and a resized print of the Wide World photo pasted on top of it. John said he did this himself so that during his presentations (and later his book) other researchers could see the clearest image possible of the so-called "defection" photo. It was meant to clarify and be of help to researchers, not deceive. The real deception occurred in 1959, when a barely visible image of American-born Lee Oswald was published so that people in the Dallas area who knew him wouldn't notice that this wasn't the guy who had just "defected." This deception continued when split images of Oswald (1/2 HARVEY and 1/2 LEE) appeared in various newspapers. John asked me to thank researchers for their interest in the deceptive photo published in 11/1/59 FWST. Since writing his book, he has learned much more about the deception related to the taller, huskier American-born Lee Oswald in Japan. This began with John's multi-hour interview with Richard Bullock, who is still very much alive and living in Egg Harbor, NJ. After Bullock saw numerous photos of Harvey Oswald after the assassination, he knew immediately that this was not the man he served with in Japan. For the next half century, he told friends and family that this was not the man he served with in Japan. When Bullock met JFK researcher Bill Kelly some years ago, before John interviewed him, Bullock told Bill the same thing. The interest in this deceptive 1959 photo has prompted John to share additional information with researchers. The write-up will be put up on HarveyandLee.net in the next few weeks.

Well, boy, you've just GOT to quit shuckin' and duckin' and face the facts! From September 14 through October 6, 1959, one "Lee Harvey Oswald" was in Taiwan, as shown by several Marine Corps Unit Diaries and other evidence. At the same time, from September 16 through October 6, 1959, another "Lee Harvey Oswald" was in Japan being treated for VD. Medical records for NAS Navy 3835--Atsugi, Japan-- show numerous medical entries for "Lee Harvey Oswald" recorded on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6. Anyone who wants to see the clear evidence for this can click RIGHT HERE! I'm very, very disappointed by your efforts on this topic, Greg. You really need to work much harder!

Why don't any of you just tell the truth?? Why not talk about the death of JFK? Do you all care so little????? Here's what I think.... ============================== QUOTE ON ========================= EXCUSE ME??? Cancelled U.S. Postage on an envelope is legitimate evidence in every United States court of law I've ever seen... NAS 3835 has for many years... including 1962... referred to Atsugi, Japan!!! Here's a link to an Ebay sale entitled "NAVY # 3835 ATSUGI, JAPAN 1962 Naval Cover 17008 Br NAS" http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAVY-3835-ATSUGI-JAPAN-1962-Naval-Cover-17008-Br-NAS-/231094956196 It's an old 1962 envelope to the IRS from an ensign stationed at Atsugi. ================== QUOTE OFF ================= To Greg Parker: You've just got to work harder, boy!!

In his conclusion, Mr. Simpich also names several CIA agents as prime suspects in the assassination of JFK. J...

N. A. S. Navy 3835 ( = JAPAN )//Gaal post 290 in the "Two Oswald Phenomenon Explained" thread. You were guessing. It is what you guys do until forced to actually pony up with evidence. EXCUSE ME??? Cancelled U.S. Postage on an envelope is legitimate evidence in every United States court of law I've ever seen... NAS 3835 has for many years... including 1962... referred to Atsugi, Japan!!! Here's a link to an Ebay sale entitled "NAVY # 3835 ATSUGI, JAPAN 1962 Naval Cover 17008 Br NAS" http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAVY-3835-ATSUGI-JAPAN-1962-Naval-Cover-17008-Br-NAS-/231094956196 It's an old 1962 envelope to the IRS from an ensign stationed at Atsugi. You've just got to work harder!

NAS 3835 has for many years referred to Atsugi... including 1962. Here's a link to an Ebay sale entitled "NAVY # 3835 ATSUGI, JAPAN 1962 Naval Cover 17008 Br NAS" http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAVY-3835-ATSUGI-JAPAN-1962-Naval-Cover-17008-Br-NAS-/231094956196 It's an old 1962 envelope to the IRS to an ensign stationed at Atsugi.

Megathanks to Steve Gaal for posting the excerpts from JFK and the Unspeakable by Jim Douglass. It is an important work, including not only the technical details of the use of lookalike(s) to set up "Lee Harvey Oswald," but also for providing background information on President Kennedy's foreign policy positions, especially on Cuba and the Soviet Union, and how unpopular these positions were with the National Security and military/industrial apparatus in the U.S. Among the people contributing words of praise for Mr. Douglass's work in the front pages are Gaeton Fonzi, Daniel Ellsberg, Vincent Salandria, Peter Dale Scott, Marcus Raskin, Gerald McKnight and quite a few others. Although it is less than ten years old, JFK and the Unspeakable has already become a very influential book. Several people have said that it is just too difficult to read Steve Gaal's post, although the only substantial lacking I can see is that it doesn't include a blank line between each paragraph. For those who can't cope with that, a nicely formatted version of the same material, with blank lines between paragraphs, can be found here: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/TwoLHOs.html

Listen up.... John Armstrong has little interest in "internet chat rooms," as he keeps calling them, and so I seldom mention much about them to him, even though we talk frequently. But today I managed to get his attention when I said something like: "They're blaming the composite photo on Jack White. They're calling it a 'fraud.'" His immediate response was, "What!? Aw, for chris-sakes!" Here's what he said actually happened. Years ago, John contacted the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram asking for the best possible photograph of "Lee Harvey Oswald" at the time of the so-called "defection." The Star-Telegram said he should contact World-Wide Photos in New York City. John ordered the photo from World-Wide, paid $25 or so, and then we posted the photo on the internet. This was the photo that was on my website until this week. John still has the orginal photo sent to him by World-Wide Photos, along with other proof in this matter, and he will have access to all his original files early next week. Jack White has nothing to do with this! About 30 minutes ago, I made electronic and print copies of all the posts in this thread so far, and I intend to try and get John to read them so he can see what people are saying about him here. I'll be in touch again about this matter next week.

 Dan Hardway was co-author of the famous Lopez-Hardway Report, better known as the "Lopez Report," a product of the House Select Committee on Assassinations. Published with enormous redactions that were gradually removed over the years, the report was about the alleged activities of “Lee Harvey Oswald” in Mexico City in 1963, just weeks before the assassination of JFK. Mr. Hardway has a new article about this infamous affair which is linked below. A few brief highlights: In my view, Oswald’s activities are more consistent with his being involved in an intelligence operation being run by U.S. intelligence…. As G. Robert Blakey has since acknowledged, “The CIA not only lied, it actively subverted the investigation.” The very first conspiracy theory, that Castro and the communists killed JFK – the one expressed by President Johnson 20 minutes after the assassination, and first seeing print in the DRE’s CIA funded newspaper, Trinchera, on November 23, 1963 – still has followers and proponents, the latest being Phil Shenon. None of the proponents, it seems, have ever really considered whether they may be the victims – or a part – of a very good, deliberate disinformation operation – possibly the best Phillips and Joannides ever ran. For those interested, David Josephs has a detailed series of articles over at CTKA.net examining the evidence for an Oswald in Mexico City. See (currently) the second listing under "New Articles." Read Dan Hardway's article here: http://aarclibrary.org/a-cruel-and-shocking-misinterpretation/

One of the things that first convinced me that the man killed by Jack Ruby was not a native-born American was the well-known evidence for how well he spoke Russian. Just a few quick highlights: In December 1963 Vladimir Petrov, head of the Slavic Language Department at Yale, read a copy of Oswald's 1962 letter from Russia to John Tower. After reading it, Petrov wrote to Senator Tower. Petrov said, "I am satisfied that letter was not written by him [Oswald]. It was written by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English." Just two months after Oswald was discharged from the Marines, doctors at the Moscow hospital reported: "The patient apparently un­derstands the questions asked in Russian. Sometimes he answers correctly, but immedi­ately states that he does not understand what he was asked. "[7 WC Exhibit 985, Volume 18, p. 470] Then, of course, come all those observations about how fluent Oswald was in Russian when he returned stateside: Mr. JENNER. Did you speak in Russian or English? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. In English at first, and then he switched to Russian. Mr. JENNER. What was your impression of his command of Russian? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, he spoke fluent Russian, but with a foreign accent, and made mistakes, grammatical mistakes, but had remarkable fluency in Russian. Mr. JENNER. It was remarkable? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Remarkable--for a fellow of his background and education, it is remarkable how fast he learned it. But he loved the language. He loved to speak it. He preferred to speak Russian than English any time. He always would switch from English to Russian. There are many other recollections, but my favorite is this, from Natalie Ray, a guest at Katya Ford's 1962 Christmas party: Natalie Ray was asked by Commission attorney Wesley Liebeler, "Did he (Oswald) speak to you in Russian?" Mrs. Ray replied, "Yes; just perfect; re­ally surprised me... it's just too good speaking Russian for be such a short time, you know... I said, 'How come you speak so good Russian? I been here so long and still don't speak very well English."'

Moronic. They said it was all stained brown and dirty like it had sat in someone's wallet for a while. That sounds a lot like his application to me... So.... the people at the driver's license facility couldn't tell the difference between a driver's license and an application??? Are you serious? (Shout out to Albert D.)

Regarding the altered Fort Worth newspaper photo that used to appear on the Harvey and Lee website, all I can say is that I made a mistake, I acknowledged it, and I fixed it. I've been running the website, off and on (but mostly on), since 1999, and I simply don't remember how I acquired the photo. I just checked, and it does not appear among the many images included in the 1959 section of the CD that accompanies Harvey and Lee. It does appear, unmodified, in the online John Armstrong collection run by the library at Baylor University. This issue has clearly given people an additional opportunity to discuss and criticize the presented evidence and conclusions of Harvey and Lee, and that's fine! Everyone's work on a subject as controversial as the Kennedy Assassination deserves scrutiny. But to any objective observer, on this site and elsewhere, the barrage of criticism directed at Harvey and Lee goes far, far beyond what would be expected as normal give and take even in an area as controversial as this one, and it's been going on relentlessly since the 1990s, soon after John first began making speeches to JFK researchers. Why would that be? I can't imagine a possible explanation.