Oswald first went to KOPY the evening of Oct 3, the same evening he supposedly registered at the YMCA nearly 400 miles to the north.  He returned to the radio station the following day. That visit actually was the basis of a widely published Associated Press report.

On the same evening of Oct. 3, 1963 and the next day:

Approximately 17 witnesses place Oswald in and around Alice, Texas on the evening of Oct. 3 and the following day. According to Google Maps, Alice, Texas is 393 miles south of Dallas.

Chris Courtwright's write-up is here.

Another write-up by Dave Reitzes is here.

Paul,

Fair enough, but Mr. Jones in the Midlothian Mirror piece merely said this: "Rowe told relatives that he, not Brewer, pointed out Oswald. Rowe was so close to Ruby that Rowe moved into Ruby's South Ewing apartment when Ruby went to jail."  The irritatingly short description in the Garrison doc seems to say the same thing, at least according to Rowe.

This certainly is not proof, and there is no reason not to pursue the "IBM men" angle as well.  A proper investigation of all this stuff in 1964 could have easily found the truth.  One thing is utterly obvious: The authorities did not want to know all that happened at the Texas Theater that afternoon.

Steve,

October 3, 1963 is the very evening that more than a dozen witnesses saw Oswald at radio station KOPY in Alice, TX (hundreds of miles south of Dallas) and in nearby Freer.  Some of these witnesses saw him with a wife and young child.

4 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Jim Hargrove (and John Armstrong) believe that someone named Tommy Rowe was at Hardy's and persuaded Brewer to give chase and report the suspect.

Perhaps. But the evidence for that is so incredibly thin that other possibilities ought to be considered. 

True enough.  I only know of two sources for the Tommy Rowe story.  One is from the Garrison files, apparently summarizing an interview of Rowe with the D.A.’s staff:

The other, which may be based on the above, is from a Penn Jones piece in the Aug. 21, 1971 Midlothian Mirror.

John Armstrong and I will be interviewed by Len Osanic on his Black Op Radio program airing October 31.  

We’ll be discussing some updates to HarveyandLee.net that present increasingly clear evidence of the schooling of the two Oswalds from 1953 to 1955.  

I. Fall semester 1953: Lee Oswald at Public School 44 in New York City; Harvey Oswald at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans.

II. Spring semester 1954: Lee in homeroom 303 (3rd floor) at Beauregard JHS; Harvey in Myra DaRouse's homeroom (basement cafeteria) at Beauregard.

III. Fall semester, 1954: Lee at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans; Harvey at Stripling JHS in Fort Worth, Texas.

IV. 1955: Lee Oswald attends Beauragard JHS in New Orleans; Harvey Oswald works full time at Dolly Shoe in New Orleans.
 

Jack Ruby’s friend Tommy Rowe also worked at Hardy's Shoe Store.  Considering that we now believe Ruby was far more involved in the assassination plot than previously suspected, it seems quite likely that it was Rowe who told Brewer about the man in the brown shirt ducking into the theater.  Interesting, of course, that the original police dispatches named a man in a white jacket and white shirt as Tippit’s killer.

Yeah, you both make good cases against Mrs. Postal, but what documents and testimonies do you distrust the least in this case?  In her 12/4/64 affidavit, Mrs. Postal said, “...at 1:30 pm or a little later.... As the police went by, a man ducked inside the theater.... In a minute or two the police were there.... In a matter of about 10 minutes, the officers came out with the man that I had called about.”

*IF* she actually saw what she described above, which she probably didn't, my bet is that the man she saw brought out by the police looked quite a bit like the man who entered the theater just after 1:30, but wasn’t the same man.

And why on earth did it take some two weeks to get a signed affidavit from Mrs. Postal?
 

12 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

In regards to Ron's question about why Julia told the police that the man went up in the balcony - I have to initially say that the evidence indicates Brewer and Burroughs told her he was up there before she called the police. 

But I also have to say that it is not in her initial statement, nor does she say it to the Warren Commission.   The dispatcher or the cops could have it cooked it up.

If you review the three statements of Brewer, Burroughs and Postal to the WC, which pretty much match their initial statements as reported in the press, and statements to the police by Postal - you will see that at 1:30 to 1:35 Brewer was in hot pursuit of the Oswald-type character when he "ducked" by Postal into the Theatre. 

I say 1:30 to 1:35 because Postal knew that JFK was dead before the Oswald-type character entered the theatre.  She said the news was announced "just about the time all chaos broke loose".

This was 15-20 minutes after Oswald entered the theatre and later bought popcorn from Burroughs at 1:15 - according to Burroughs' statement to Jim Marrs in 1987 - and I think it was done to provoke a call to the police to the theatre.  

I have listened to Jones Harris' very explicit description to me of his interview with Postal - and he and others at the interview were convinced that Postal knew that she had sold a ticket to Oswald - but she would not admit and will never admit.  She didn't just cry when asked if she sold him a ticket - she lost her bearings - and it happened twice.

John Armstrong describes the route to the balcony:  "The Texas Theater has a main floor level and a balcony. Upon entering the theater from the "outside doors," there are stairs leading to the balcony on the right. Straight ahead are a second set of "inside doors" leading to the concession stand and the main floor. It is possible to go directly to the balcony, without being seen by people at the concession stand, by climbing the stairs to the right." 

Thus, From the door, the Oswald-type character could either go straight up the stairs to the balcony, or he could enter the ground floor while passing by Burroughs' concession stand.

Brewer and Burroughs looked for the character on the ground floor and checked the doors - since the doors were locked and they couldn't be locked from the outside, they assumed that the character was still in the theatre and was not seen in the ground floor.  Burroughs said that he assumed that he had "sneaked up the stairs real fast" because the stairway was near the entry door - and was now up in the balcony.   Brewer said they looked up in the balcony and "couldn't see anything", probably because it was so dark. They "told Julia that we hadn't seen him...and she called the police".  The dispatcher reported that she told the police the man was "hiding in the balcony" - probably because that's what they told her.

One of the cops claim that Postal told them when they got there that the suspect was in the balcony:  K.D. Lyons, who was in the car with Hill and Bentley and Oswald during that very questionable ride.  Did others tell that tale?  This needs further research.

It is intriguing to note that the news story reports that it was the mysterious manager John Callahan who turned the lights on and exposed LHO to the police.  Postal said that just as Oswald entered the building, Callahan came running out the other way, and "got in his car...to see where (the police) were going."  Another report says that the "manager on duty" had seen one man in the theater "since 12:05".  To my knowledge, Callahan was never questioned by anybody.

The post by Mr. Simpich shows clearly how poor the “investigation” into the events at the Texas Theater really was.  Not only was the list of theater patrons lost,  manager John Callahan was never questioned by the police, nor the FBI, nor the sheriff’s department, nor the Warren Commission, even though his timing leaving the theater seems utterly bizarre, at least as described by Mrs. Postal.

Worse yet, there is no indication that there was any attempt to identify the so-called  “manager on duty” described in Det. John Toney’s report. The non-existent “manager on duty” falsely claimed that the Oswald-type character in the balcony had been in the theater since 12:05 pm, when, in fact, the theater didn’t open until 12:45.  If this “manager on duty” was not John Callahan, and the evidence clearly suggests he wasn’t, he may well have been a conspirator providing a much needed alibi for the Oswald who led police to the theater. 

There is no indication that Det. Toney even bothered to get or report the name of this “manager on duty.” Nor was there any attempt to identify him later, at least that I’m aware of.  It is shameful!  This false manager might have provided a direct link to the conspirators who set up "Lee Harvey Oswald" as the patsy in this case.

You’re absolutely right, John.  Harvey spent a considerable portion of his so-called military career living in New Orleans and working at Pfisterers Dental Lab. But you’re thinking of this as a soldier, not as a spook-in-training. I sincerely doubt that Harvey Oswald was ever listed as AWOL, even briefly.

Think of it this way: Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was often just being given a taste of American-born Lee Oswald’s life.  During his training, Harvey was placed in and out of schools, in and out of jobs, and even in and out of the USMC.  The whole idea was to give him an understanding of these aspects of American life, but not to dwell on them so long as to get entangled in his counterpart's life.

Think of questions a Soviet interrogator might ask Harvey in Russia.  Things such as, "Say Comrade, dis Beau-Re-Gaurd School you go to.  Where you eat lunch there?  Basement?  Roof?  Third floor?  First?"   Questions like that would be easy to research for Soviet Intelligence, but best answered by a VERY young spy who had actually gone to the school, just as the Oswald on record had.  Remember, none of this stuff was expected to be put under a microscope.  That only happened when the "Oswald Project" got entangled with the Kennedy assassination, just a few months before President Kennedy was killed.

In short, Harvey Oswald was not a real soldier.  You hinted at this yourself in your post above.  What kind of soldier starts crying and breaks down while standing unchallenged at guard duty?

There’s a rather famous newspaper article published in 1963 by Richard Starnes in which he talks about CIA agents who have infiltrated the U.S. military.  Here’s the whole article, and I’ve put the most relevant part in red:

The Washington Daily News, Wednesday, October 2, 1963, p.3

'SPOOKS' MAKE LIFE MISERABLE FOR AMBASSADOR LODGE

'Arrogant' CIA Disobeys Orders in Viet Nam

By Richard T. Starnes

SAIGON, Oct.2 - The story of the Central Intelligence Agency's role in South Viet Nam is a dismal chronicle of bureaucratic arrogance, obstinate disregard of orders, and unrestrained thirst for power.

Twice the CIA flatly refused to carry out instructions from Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge, according to a high United States source here.

In one of these instances the CIA frustrated a plan of action Mr. Lodge brought with him from Washington because the agency disagreed with it.

This led to a dramatic confrontation between Mr. Lodge and John Richardson, chief of the huge CIA apparatus here. Mr. Lodge failed to move Mr. Richardson, and the dispute was bucked back to Washington. Secretary of State Dean Rusk and CIA Chief John A. McCone were unable to resolve the conflict, and the matter is now reported to be awaiting settlement by President Kennedy.

It is one of the developments expected to be covered in Defense Secretary Robert McNamara's report to Mr. Kennedy.

Others Critical, Too

Other American agencies here are incredibly bitter about the CIA.

"If the United States ever experiences a 'Seven Days in May' it will come from the CIA, and not from the Pentagon," one U.S. official commented caustically.

("Seven Days in May" is a fictional account of an attempted military coup to take over the U.S. Government.)

CIA "spooks" (a universal term for secret agents here) have penetrated every branch of the American community in Saigon, until non-spook Americans here almost seem to be suffering a CIA psychosis.

An American field officer with a distinguished combat career speaks angrily about "that man at headquarters in Saigon wearing a colonel's uniform." He means the man is a CIA agent, and he can't understand what he is doing at U.S. military headquarters here, unless it is spying on other Americans.

Another American officer, talking about the CIA, acidly commented: "You'd think they'd have learned something from Cuba but apparently they didn't."

Few Know CIA Strength
Few people other than Mr. Richardson and his close aides know the actual CIA strength here, but a widely used figure is 600. Many are clandestine agents known only to a few of their fellow spooks.

Even Mr. Richardson is a man about whom it is difficult to learn much in Saigon. He is said to be a former OSS officer, and to have served with distinction in the CIA in the Philippines.

A surprising number of the spooks are known to be involved in their ghostly trade and some make no secret of it.

"There are a number of spooks in the U.S. Information Service, in the U.S. Operations mission, in every aspect of American official and commercial life here, " one official - presumably a non-spook - said.

"They represent a tremendous power and total unaccountability to anyone," he added.

Coupled with the ubiquitous secret police of Ngo Dinh Nhu, a surfeit of spooks has given Saigon an oppressive police state atmosphere.

The Nhu-Richardson relationship is a subject of lively speculation. The CIA continues to pay the special forces which conducted brutal raids on Buddhist temples last Aug. 21, altho in fairness it should be pointed out that the CIA is paying these goons for the war against communist guerillas, not Buddhist bonzes (priests).

Hand Over Millions

Nevertheless, on the first of every month, the CIA dutifully hands over a quarter million American dollars to pay these special forces.

Whatever else it buys, it doesn't buy any solid information on what the special forces are up to. The Aug. 21 raids caught top U.S. officials here and in Washington flat-footed.

Nhu ordered the special forces to crush the Buddhist priests, but the CIA wasn't let in on the secret. (Some CIA button men now say they warned their superiors what was coming up, but in any event the warning of harsh repression was never passed to top officials here or in Washington.)

Consequently, Washington reacted unsurely to the crisis. Top officials here and at home were outraged at the news the CIA was paying the temple raiders, but the CIA continued the payments.

It may not be a direct subsidy for a religious war against the country's Buddhist majority, but it comes close to that.

And for every State Department aide here who will tell you, "Dammit, the CIA is supposed to gather information, not make policy, but policy-making is what they're doing here," there are military officers who scream over the way the spooks dabble in military operations.

A Typical Example

For example, highly trained trail watchers are an important part of the effort to end Viet Cong infiltration from across the Laos and Cambodia borders. But if the trailer watchers spot incoming Viet Congs, they report it to the CIA in Saigon, and in the fullness of time, the spooks may tell the military.

One very high American official here, a man who has spent much of his life in the service of democracy, likened the CIA's growth to a malignancy, and added he was not sure even the White House could control it any longer.

Unquestionably Mr. McNamara and Gen. Maxwell Taylor both got an earful from people who are beginning to fear the CIA is becoming a Third Force co-equal with President Diem's regime and the U.S. Government - and answerable to neither.

There is naturally the highest interest here as to whether Mr. McNamara will persuade Mr. Kennedy something ought to be done about it.

17 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

I wondered a little bit about the "dragging guns up the mountainside" reference by Oswald in his conversation with Priscilla Johnson.

I asked myself why Americans would be doing the manual labor.

These references might explain it a little bi, and lend some credence to what Oswald was saying:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

"During the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis in September 1958, Taiwan's landscape saw Nike-Hercules missile batteries added, with the formation of the 1st Missile Battalion Chinese Army that would not be deactivated until 1997."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis

"Twelve long-range 203 mm (8.0 in) M115 howitzer artillery pieces and numerous[quantify] 155 mm howitzers were transferred from the U.S. Marine Corps to the Army of the Nationalist China. These were sent west to Kinmen Island to gain superiority in the artillery duel back and forth over the straits there."

 

Steve Thomas

Steve,

Megathanks for that find!  I had no idea that the Russian-speaking Oswald’s unit was sent to Taiwan at the very time American troops were supporting the Taiwanese Chinese against the Mainland Chinese.  According to the Wikipedia article you linked, the whole affair was called the “Second Taiwan Strait Crisis” and was also known as the “1958 Taiwan Strait Crisis.” Fascinating!

On page 197 of H&L, John A. writes that, “ According to Marine Corps records, Oswald was released from the Marine brig on August 13 and returned to active duty. A month later First Lieutenant William K. Trail, assigned to the First Marine Air Wing, MAG II, MACS 1 in Atsugi, recalled that when his group was preparing to depart for Taiwan, Oswald and another Marine were being held prisoners (Harvey, and possibly Paul Murphy?). Trail said the prisoners were picked up by a "chaser" with a gun during transport to Taiwan in September.”

John speculates that the Russian-speaking Oswald was held briefly in the brig at Atsugi  prior to boarding the Skagit so he wouldn’t run into the American-born Oswald, or any of that Oswald’s close associates.  As is shown so many different times in H&L, the two Oswalds were associated with entirely different groups of Marines.

How the HSCA “fixed” the problem of Oswald being in Japan and Taiwan simultaneously

In an undated letter sent to Secretary of Defense Harold Brown, HSCA chief counsel Robert Blakey questioned the very contradiction we have been discussing here when he wrote the following:

2. During which periods was Oswald separated from his units overseas because of hospitalization?

Oswald's health records reflect that he was sent “to mainside for smear” on September 16, 1958. (See Warren Commission Vol 19, p 603; see also Vol. 8, p. 313.) But other records reveal that Oswald's unit, MAG 11, sailed from Yokosuka, Japan, on September 16, 1958, for the South China Sea area, and did not return to Japan until October 5, 1958. (See Warren Commission vol. 23, p. 797; see also Warren Report, p. 684.)

Mr. Brown’s office responded with a “Fact Sheet….” that included this statement:

"Oswald did not sail from Yokosuka, Japan, on September 16, 1958. He remained aboard NAS, Atsugi as part of the MAG-11 rear echelon."

PROBLEM SOLVED!  Except for the fact that the solution was phony.

First of all, both contemporary and modern records clearly indicate that the USS Skagit (AKA 105) departed from Yokosuka, Japan NOT on Sept. 16, as claimed above, but on Sept. 14, 1958.

Hear, again, are the USMC unit diaries describing the ship’s departure with Oswald aboard on Sept. 14, 1958, and “Oswald’s” presence in Ping Tung, Taiwan, on October 6.

The web page Sandy found,  TIME LINE 1944 to 1969: USS SKAGIT AKA / LKA 105, showed ....

...under the subhead “Recollections of: Clark Leonard, LT. USMC: Combat Cargo Officer 1958 – 1959,” the following entry:

"Departed Sept.14 and ran into Typhoon Helen, very rough seas, and giant waves. Arrived Kaoshung, Formosa on Sept,19 unloaded matting continuously for 48 hours."

The USS Skagit departed from Japan on Sept 14, 1958, just as the documents above show.  And "Lee Harvey Oswald" was on board.

In addition to the USMC docs shown above, there is quite a bit more evidence that the Russian-speaking Oswald was indeed in Taiwan/Formosa.  In the 1959 Moscow interview with Priscilla Johnson, her notes indicated he observed Americans in foreign countries: “Like Formosa.  The conduct of American technicians there, helping drag up guns for the Chinese.” 

In her finished article, Johnson wrote that Oswald “had spent 14 months in Japan, the Phillipines, Indonesia, and Formosa as a radar operator….”

A message of November 4, 1959 reported that Oswald “served with Marine Air Control Squadrons in Japan and Taiwan with duties involving ground control intercept."

A Naval Message also dated November 4, 1959 further confirms that Oswald was Stationed in Taiwan.

“Marguerite Oswald" told the Warren Commission (emphasis added):

This is a picture of Lee with his marines, and it is a special, I think he was doing special work there. I am not familiar--I wasn't told that. But it is different than the other picture. Lee went to many, many a school, gentlemen. He went to the Marine Air Force Base in Biloxi, Mississippi, to schooling. He went to Jacksonville and some others. I remarked, "Your brothers were not sent from here to there like you were." Lee was in Japan, Lee was in Corregidor, Lee was in the Philippines, and Lee was in Formosa. That has not been publicly stated.

In the 1990s, John A. examined at the National Archives “photographs taken by Harvey Oswald of aircraft, troops and bunkers in Taiwan [which] were found by the Dallas Police among his possessions and are now in the National Archives.”

The evidence that one Oswald was in Atsugi, Japan, while the other was on the high seas and in Taiwan/Formosa is substantial.

John A described the difference between Chinese and Japanese characters pretty much the same way.  

In the next post, I’ll show that the HSCA clearly understood the problem with Oswald being in Japan and Taiwan simultaneously and I'll show how the Committee settled on a phony “solution.”  With that in mind, it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if photos of “Oswald” in Taiwan might not find their way online.

If I understand this “bloused” boots issue, any image of a Marine from the 1950s or 1960s should show his pant legs kind of bunched around the top of the boots, and not inserted into the boots.  Is that correct?
 

On 10/15/2019 at 11:33 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

The reason Jim wants you guys to post your anti-H&L arguments here in this thread is because he knows that your arguments are quite weak and sometimes even ridiculous . If they weren't, you could easily shut him up by posting a few strong ones. But you don't.

You guys need to respond to Jim in some way, and you do so by claiming (without foundation) that H&L evidence has been debunked, and by linking to the supposed debunking. Most people will not follow the links and that is what you guys count on. I'm sure that you, Tracy,  believe that your own articles actually debunk H&L. But you don't believe that Greg's articles do. (If you did believe so, you would have told me how specifically  they debunk the many times I've asked you.)

Jeremy B. goes a step further by trying to shame readers into not believing H&L. And by trying to paint current H&L believers as cult-following idiots. Shame on him.

On 10/15/2019 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

To any newbie reading this... I urge you to compare Jim Hargrove's arguments with those who disagree with him. Click on the links to Tracy Parnell's and Greg Parker's H&L debunkings You will see that there is no comparison in the quality of their respective arguments and evidence. Jim wins hands down. That's because Jim has the truth on his side whereas his opponents have only a preconceived notion that the CIA wouldn't have involved two young boys in one of their schemes. Having preconceived notions is not conducive to fact finding. Having an open mind is.

Thanks, Sandy. 

I'd just like to point out that not one H&L critic has managed to make any kind of serious attempt to debunk ANY of the specific points I've introduced in this thread, including the following:

• For the fall semester of the 1953-54 school year,  one Oswald attended Beauregard JHS in New Orleans for 89 school days while the other was enrolled in Public School 44 in New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.
• For the next semester, one Oswald was at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while the other Oswald attended Stripling School in Texas.
• One Oswald lost a front tooth during a fight at Beauregard JHS in the fall of 1954, but the Oswald exhumed decades later obviously had all his front teeth intact.
• The Social Security Administration did not include ANY of “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” teen-aged employment income in his “Lifetime Earnings Report” indicating in a cover letter it was including “Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps.”
• One Oswald departed for Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit on Sept. 14, 1958 and was stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan on Oct. 6, 1958, at the very same time the other Oswald was being treated for venereal disease at Atsugi, Japan, nearly 1500 miles away.
• One Oswald appeared at the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans while the other was in the Soviet Union.
• One Oswald had a driver’s license and was seen by many witnesses driving a car, and the other Oswald could not drive.
• On November 22, 1963, one Oswald left the Texas School Book Depository on a bus and then a taxi, and the other left in a Nash Rambler.

22 hours ago, John Butler said:

Jim,

In your recent post you said:

"In the 1990s, John A. examined at the National Archives “photographs taken by Harvey Oswald of aircraft, troops and bunkers in Taiwan [which] were found by the Dallas Police among his possessions and are now in the National Archives.” "

Did Mr. Armstrong make a copy of the National Archive photos mentioned, and if so, could you maybe take the time and post those if you can obtain copies.  One of the things that frustrates me to no end is the mixing of Michael Paine's Army photos and vacation photos into the Oswald photos in the Paine garage.  I made what I thought was a huge error on these photos, but going back and looking at the situation further the error may not have big as I thought.  A lot of these photos are like this one from Jack Swike:

John,

John Armstrong went through Oswald’s so-called possessions at the National Archives back in the 1990s.  He believes he was the last private citizen allowed to touch them, but I don’t think he made copies of what he believed were the Russian-speaking Oswald’s pictures of Taiwan, or at least I haven’t come across them in his papers at Baylor University.

But here’s what he has told me about them.  John has spent a considerable amount of time in China.  Although he can read very little Chinese, he says he can easily tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese characters.

The pictures he looked at in the National Archives did NOT seem to be mixed with the ones supposedly taken by Michael Paine, simply because there weren’t that many photos.  And they were classified as “Oswald’s possessions.”  Among the photos were some that showed military tents with Chinese lettering (not Japanese) on signs. These were probably from Taiwan.  I’ll try to remember to ask him for more information.  In the meantime, you might look for photos that have Chinese lettering on signs on or by military tents.

Also, what does it mean for a soldier to “blouse” his boots?

19 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Oswald's time in Taiwan seems to hinge on whether he actually went there, or stayed behind in a rear echelon unit.

Steve,

In addition to the USMC docs I’ve already shown, there is quite a bit more evidence that the Russian-speaking Oswald was indeed in Taiwan/Formosa.  In the 1959 Moscow interview with Priscilla Johnson, her notes indicated he observed Americans in foreign countries: “Like Formosa.  The conduct of American technicians there, helping drag up guns for the Chinese.” 

In her finished article, Johnson wrote that Oswald “had spent 14 months in Japan, the Phillipines, Indonesia, and Formosa as a radar operator….”

A message of November 4, 1959 reported that Oswald “served with Marine Air Control Squadrons in Japan and Taiwan with duties involving ground control intercept."

A Naval Message also dated November 4, 1959 further confirms that Oswald was Stationed in Taiwan.

“Marguerite Oswald" told the Warren Commission (emphasis added):

This is a picture of Lee with his marines, and it is a special, I think he was doing special work there. I am not familiar--I wasn't told that. But it is different than the other picture. Lee went to many, many a school, gentlemen. He went to the Marine Air Force Base in Biloxi, Mississippi, to schooling. He went to Jacksonville and some others. I remarked, "Your brothers were not sent from here to there like you were." Lee was in Japan, Lee was in Corregidor, Lee was in the Philippines, and Lee was in Formosa. That has not been publicly stated.

In the 1990s, John A. examined at the National Archives “photographs taken by Harvey Oswald of aircraft, troops and bunkers in Taiwan [which] were found by the Dallas Police among his possessions and are now in the National Archives.”

The evidence that one Oswald was in Atsugi, Japan, while the other was on the high seas and in Taiwan/Formosa is substantial.
 

16 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

To Jim H,

Rather than trying to quote an earlier post of yours, here's a little something I noticed:

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm

 

Mrs. BLEDSOE - “I said, "Well, what kind of work do you do? "Oh, I do electronics," he said, and I said, "Well, there is some good jobs because you are young, and you can get a good job a young man like you."
And then went on. Then something about him being in the Marines, and I said, "Well, that is wonderful. My son was in the Navy."

Mr. JENNER - When your son was in the Navy, did he have a duffelbag?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No. Now, it was so long ago--it was--I don't know whether he did. I don't think he did. He didn't. He was an instructor at TI.
Mr. JENNER - Was he stationed here in Dallas?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No, TI. Treasure Island.

John wrote the following on our website:

October and November, 1958 was the end of HARVEY Oswald and LEE Oswald's activities in the far east. But after returning to the US, HARVEY Oswald was assigned to MACS 9 at Santa Ana, CA, assumed LEE Oswald's identity, and began promoting himself as a supporter of all things Russian. LEE Oswald was briefly assigned to El Toro and was soon discharged. I would like to point out that not a single one of Zack Stout's group of 10 marines, who bunked with LEE Oswald, worked with him, travelled with him, and went on leave with him for one year--the marines who knew the tall, husky LEE Oswald better than anyone--not one of them was ever interviewed by the FBI. 

....

In October and November, 1958, HARVEY Oswald  was becoming very friendly with Sergeant Nelson Delgado at MACS 9 in Santa Ana, CA. Delgado told the Warren Commission that he and Oswald talked continuously about Castro, Cuba, and the Dominican Republic. Oswald showed Delgado a copy of Das Kapital, which was probably the same book that he had shown to Palmer McBride a year earlier. Delgado, Sergeant Erwin Lewis, Sergeant Camilous Brown, Buddy Simco, Mack Osborne, Neil Tessem, Henry Roussel, Robert Allen, and Paul Hickey all knew and associated with HARVEY Oswald in November and December, 1958--while LEE Oswald was either aboard ship en route to the USA (arrived 11/15/58) or on leave in Texas (returned to El Toro on 12/22/58).

21 hours ago, John Butler said:

He was not there at Iwakuni very long.  Depending how he went back to the US , he could have stayed at Iwakuni, Japan for a little over a week.  It is about a 2 week trip from Japan to the US by Naval transport.  This raises the question why was he sent there?  Why was he there for a short period of time?  The time period could be just a little over a week to about 3 / 4 quarters of a month depending on travel time.  Was meeting the "round-eyed" girl at Iwakuni more important than most people think? 

If Harvey left Iwakuni, Japan at the end of the month of October, 1958, an air trip would have taken about 10 hours to cover the distance between Iwakuni, Japan and San Francisco, CA.  By air the shortest route is over 5,000 miles long.   Harvey is in California on October 29, 1958.  Lee Oswald is still in Japan at this point in time.  It is one of many "smoking gun" issues of Harvey and Lee's saga.  A big one.

Iwakuni is interesting.  If Harvey Oswald was indeed there, it is much like the situation just a few years earlier with Stripling School in Fort Worth.  There is no official documentation for “Oswald’s” attendance at either Stripling or the Iwakuni military base, but lots of people remembered that he was at both.

A Frontline television special that aired in 2003 talked a lot about Oswald at Iwakuni.  Marine soldier Owen Dejanovich said he saw Oswald walking with a beautiful “round-eyed” Russian woman into an off-limits area near the base supposedly controlled by “Japanese communists.”  If we are to believe Edward Epstein, Dejanovich also said that Oswald kept referring to the Marines as “You Americans,” as if he wasn’t one.

When Harvey Oswald was stationed at Iwakuni, Lee Oswald was still at Atsugi.    Soon after this, Harvey Oswald begins parading about speaking Russian and promoting all things Russian and Communist, all in preparation for his upcoming false defection.

EDIT: I seem to remember someone claiming there was U-2 activity at or near Iwakuni, but I can't recall any of the specifics or who made the claim.  Do you know if there was even a jet base located there or near there?

Since the H&L critics appear too embarrassed to discuss the specifics of their counterarguments here, I’ll do it for them.  There were only two potentially viable points put forward that I’m aware of, and they were:

1. The Oswald treated for a urethral discharge was cared for on the ship, not at the Atsugi hospital.

and

2. The USS Skagit did not depart on Sept. 14, 1958 because of a typhoon.

Let’s examine these in order.

1.  Oswald was treated for VD in Japan, NOT aboard the USS Skagit.

The testimony of Captain Donabedian quoted in my previous post, and the documents themselves, make this clear.  Capt. Donabedian said that, “… on 16 September 58 he evidently went to one of the outlying dispensaries, and they said ‘Send to the mainside for smear,’ which means he was sent to the main side dispensary to get the smear taken.”

Ships such as the USS Skagit did not have the scope of medical facilities described by Capt. Donabedian at the U.S. Naval Hospital at Atsugi, Japan.  His reference to “mainside” refers to the most significant part of the Atsugi base.  In the previous post, I gave an example of the use of the term on the USMC page for the Marine Corps base at Camp Pendleton.

This Oswald was treated for VD in Japan while the other Oswald was on the high seas and in Ping Tung, Taiwan, nearly 1,500 miles from Atsugi, Japan.

2.  The departure of the USS Skagit was NOT delayed by a typhoon.

Sandy Larsen discovered a web page entitled TIME LINE 1944 to 1969: USS SKAGIT AKA / LKA 105.

Under the subhead “Recollections of: Clark Leonard, LT. USMC: Combat Cargo Officer 1958 – 1959,” is the following entry:

"Departed Sept.14 and ran into Typhoon Helen, very rough seas, and giant waves. Arrived Kaoshung, Formosa on Sept,19 unloaded matting continuously for 48 hours."

The departure of the Skagit was NOT delayed by Typhoon Helen.  It left Japan on Sept 14, 1958, just as ALL the documents above show.

If any H&L critic has another argument to put forward showing that these records could be describing just one person, I ask them yet again to list the specifics RIGHT HERE.  They won't do so, of course.  At best, they'll just point somewhere else and claim it is all debunked there.  The same old story.

CONGRATULATIONS!   Give ‘em hell, Jim.

Hope you guys have some sort of media PR plan to deal with the usual attack dogs when they start barking.  Mr. Stone should be well versed in the subject.  

This isn’t the least bit complicated.

Page 684 of the Warren Commission Report says: “On September 14, Oswald sailed with his unit for the South China Sea area; the unit was at Ping Tung, North Taiwan on September 30, and returned to Atsugi on October 5."

Commission Exhibit 1961 also indicates the same thing. 

Then, of course, there are the two USMC unit diary pages I’ve shown earlier indicating…. The same thing!

The young man who travelled to Taiwan was the Russian-speaking Oswald, the one who would soon pretend to “defect” to the Soviet Union.  In Moscow, he told UPI reporter  Ailene Mosby that he had been in Formosa (Taiwan).

During all the time the Russian-speaking Oswald was on the high seas and stationed in Taiwan, the American-born Oswald remained at Atsugi, Japan, where he was treated for VD.  

Most of these records we’ve been examining were published as part of the Donabedian Exhibit by the Warren Commission.  Donabedian testified on May 1, 1964, and clearly indicated that Oswald was not on a boat when these tests were made.  (See boldfaced remarks below.)

Mr. ELY - I would like at this point to refer you to pages 152 through 156 of this exhibit. 
I shall let you proceed to explain what these mean without questioning. 
Captain DONABEDIAN - On 9- 10- 58, slight burning on urination. "Has urethral discharge." 
Mr. ELY - Well, if you cannot read it, there is no point-- -- 
Captain DONABEDIAN - Then they took a smear. 
Mr. ELY - What is the purpose of a smear? 
Captain DONABEDIAN - A smear is to diagnose the cause of the infection, the cause of the discharge, to see what type of bacteria was present. 
And on 9- 23- 58, report of a urethral discharge sensitivity test. A culture was taken and reported staphylococcal hemolytic. And the sensitivity test to determine what drug we have that will affect that particular bacteria that is causing this. And erythromycin was the drug of choice. 

On page 154, on 16 September 58 he evidently went to one of the outlying dispensaries, and they said "Send to the mainside for smear," which means he was sent to the main side dispensary to get the smear taken. 

September 1958, the complaint was urethral discharge. They sent him to the lab for a smear. 
And here it says, "Gram negative, diplococci intra- and extra- cellular morphological resembling neisseria gonococci." 
Mr. ELY - Could you tell us, Doctor, generally, what that means? 
Captain DONABEDIAN - Well, this resembles the gonococcus bacteria which causes gonorrhea. And it says here morphologically resembling this germ-- since the only legal diagnosis would be to have a culture made to prove this or disprove it. 
And here for his treatment they gave him penicillin, it looks like 400,000units, four times a day, for 3 days, and said "Return on Monday in the p.m., for a repeat smear."
Then on September 30, 1958, "Still has profuse discharge, somewhat clearer,received course of penicillin ending 2 days ago." 
In other words, he had finished getting his penicillin. So for this profuse discharge, they treated him with chloromycetin capsules, one, four times a day,and return Monday for smear and culture. Then on September 22-- -- 
Mr. ELY - I believe the last item was September 20. 

On a military base such as that at Atsugi, by the way, "mainside" means the most built-up and significant part of the base.  The current web page for the Marine Corps Base at Camp Pendleton says: "The main base is in the Mainside Complex...."  Captain Donabedian is clearly describing Oswald's treatment at the base at Atsugi, not on a boat.

The medical records continue to show that, while Harvey Oswald was en route to Taiwan, LEE Oswald was still at Atsugi Sept. 20 and 22 and 23.  A smear and culture was taken on the 22nd and the culture results of the 23rd indicated the presence of “micrococcus pyogenes vas aurens.”   That was not done on a boat!  Here, again, are the documents the Captain was describing:

The evidence that one Oswald was on the high seas and in Ping Tung, Taiwan while the other was being treated at the Naval hospital in Atsugi, Japan is as plain as the nose on your face.

Confronted by the exact evidence I've shown here, the HSCA flat-out lied to the American people.   If anyone is interested, I can show how that worked.

2 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Because, as Mr B and others have pointed out several times, and as Jim knows very well, those topics have been debated over and over again on this forum and elsewhere. If Jim, or anyone else, wants to find out what the arguments are, he only has to look. The links have been provided. Click them and find out.

As I predicted in the very title of this thread, people such as Mr. Parnell and Mr. Bojczuk are clearly unable to debate the simple examples of two Oswalds summarized below.  This is at least the seventh time I have challenged Mr. B to debate ANY of these points, but all he can do is say the answer is somewhere else, not here. Your links debunk nothing in the list below.  If you think they do, stop hiding and put the evidence here.   Again...

• For the fall semester of the 1953-54 school year,  one Oswald attended Beauregard JHS in New Orleans for 89 school days while the other was enrolled in Public School 44 in New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.
• For the next semester, one Oswald was at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while the other Oswald attended Stripling School in Texas.
• One Oswald lost a front tooth during a fight at Beauregard JHS in the fall of 1954, but the Oswald exhumed decades later obviously had all his front teeth intact.
• The Social Security Administration did not include ANY of “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” teen-aged employment income in his “Lifetime Earnings Report” indicating in a cover letter it was including “Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps.”
• One Oswald departed for Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit on Sept. 14, 1958 and was stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan on Oct. 6, 1958, at the very same time the other Oswald was being treated for venereal disease at Atsugi, Japan, nearly 1500 miles away.
• One Oswald appeared at the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans while the other was in the Soviet Union.
• One Oswald had a driver’s license and was seen by many witnesses driving a car, and the other Oswald could not drive.
• On November 22, 1963, one Oswald left the Texas School Book Depository on a bus and then a taxi, and the other left in a Nash Rambler.

Unfortunately for Mr. B, no combination of taunts, insults, and misrepresentations can make the evidence in this case go away.  He, like Mr. Parnell, is clearly afraid to discuss it.

On 10/8/2019 at 12:18 PM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

No, Greg Parker and others documented Jack White's coaching of Kudlaty. If Kudlaty had independently gone to the authorities (or even to Armstrong) and told a story of confiscated records, it would carry more weight. But he only told his story AFTER talking to Jack White and hearing Armstrong's thesis. Again, search here at EF and find the threads.

I'm not going to let go of the false and scurrilous charge made above by Greg Parker and Tracy Parnell.  They have no evidence for it, and they know it.  It is all part of their effort to deny that "Lee Harvey Oswald" attended Stripling Junior High School in Fort Worth.  Why?  Because he was demonstrably elsewhere according to published school records.  Admitting "Oswald" attended Stripling School is admitting there were two Oswalds.

I've been working on a page for the H&L website that will put in one place all the evidence that "Oswald" DID attend Stripling.  Here's what I've got so far, though it is still a work in progress:

Stripling Junior High School

There is no mention of Stripling Junior High School by the Warren Commission, but the evidence is quite clear that one Oswald, Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald, attended it for a time, probably in the fall of 1954.  There is some confusion about the exact year because the FBI, as it did in New York City and New Orleans and in other Texas schools, confiscated all of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" original school and pre-Marine employment records and "lost" them, soon to be replaced by easy-to-alter black and white copies.

Frank Kudlaty, the assistant principal of Stripling School in 1963, met two FBI agents at the school on the day after the assassination of JFK and handed them the school's records for Lee Harvey Oswald.  Those records completely disappeared while in FBI custody.  Not even black and white copies remained.
 

To hear and see Frank Kudlaty discuss what REALLY happened at Stripling School, click here.

He got the year wrong, but Robert Oswald testified to the Warren Commission that his brother attended Stripling.
 

Mr. OSWALD. Just a minute, please. In 1952 Lee was 13 years old. He would be attending W. C. Stripling Junior High School then.
Mr. JENNER. I see. For the school year 1951-52?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. Junior high school there was from the seventh to the ninth grades. And as soon as he was through with his sixth year, he started attending W. C. Stripling Junior High School.

On two separate occasions before the assassination of JFK,  Robert Oswald told a Fort Worth newspaper that his brother attended Stripling.  Read a 1959 article here and a 1962 article here.

Just two days after the assassination (11/24/63), the Fort Worth Star Telegram published the following article indicating Oswald attended Stripling School.



Four decades later, the 5/11/2002 edition of the same Fort Worth newspaper included an article commemorating the 75th anniversary of Stripling School, noting that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was its best-known student, and making note of the infamous Thomas Place address.  "Marguerite Oswald" was living at 2220 Thomas Place on the day of the assassination of JFK.

Before the assassination, on April 2, 1963, Fort Worth Star Telegram had a short article indicating that Frank Kudlaty was indeed the assistant principal of Stripling School.

One of Harvey Oswald’s classmates was Fran Schubert, who watched watched him walk home from Stripling School to 2220 Thomas Place, long before "Marguerite Oswald" supposedly lived at that address.
 

click here for 1997 interview with Fran Schubert

In the 1990s, Stripling School principal Ricardo Galindo told John Armstrong that it was “common knowledge” that “Lee Harvey Oswald” attended Stripling.

John also spoke to local student Bobby Pitts, who remembered that Oswald attended Stripling with his younger brother and that he (Bobby) remembered seeing (Harvey) Oswald standing on the porch at 2220 Thomas Place, directly across the street from Stripling.  John also spoke with former Stripling student Doug Gann, who attended ninth grade at Stripling with Harvey and remembered that he live “across the street from the basketball courts and one or two houses to the left,” which exactly describes 2220 Thomas Place, where “Marguerite Oswald” lived at the time of the assassination of JFK. Audio recordings of these witnesses will be made available sometime during 2020.

"Lee Harvey Oswald's" presence at Stripling School has not been forgotten, despite the disappearance of all records while in FBI custody.  A Fort Worth Star-Telegram article from November 2017 indicated that Oswald’s “teachers and classmates remember him at Stripling, though there is no official record.”  Read the article here.

At least six times in this very thread, I have asked Jeremy Bojczuk to stop hiding behind his own misrepresentations of the mastoidectomy and debate ANY of the following pieces of evidence I have presented:

• For the fall semester of the 1953-54 school year,  one Oswald attended Beauregard JHS in New Orleans for 89 school days while the other was enrolled in Public School 44 in New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.
• For the next semester, one Oswald was at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while the other Oswald attended Stripling School in Texas.
• One Oswald lost a front tooth during a fight at Beauregard JHS in the fall of 1954, but the Oswald exhumed decades later obviously had all his front teeth intact.
• The Social Security Administration did not include ANY of “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” teen-aged employment income in his “Lifetime Earnings Report” indicating in a cover letter it was including “Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps.”
• One Oswald departed for Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit on Sept. 14, 1958 and was stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan on Oct. 6, 1958, at the very same time the other Oswald was being treated for venereal disease at Atsugi, Japan, nearly 1500 miles away.
• One Oswald appeared at the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans while the other was in the Soviet Union.
• One Oswald had a driver’s license and was seen by many witnesses driving a car, and the other Oswald could not drive.
• On November 22, 1963, one Oswald left the Texas School Book Depository on a bus and then a taxi, and the other left in a Nash Rambler.

Mr. B is clearly unwilling to do so.  Why?  Because he knows he will lose the debate.

Day after day and year after year, H&L critics like Mr. B say that the Harvey and Lee analysis is "crazy" and "idiotic" and that people who believe it wear "tin foil hats" and so on.  And yet, whenever I present some of the most simple and easy to explain pieces evidence for two Oswalds, they run away and whine that I am being repetitive.

I started this thread because, in another thread, Mr. Bojczuk repeated his usual refrain that the two Oswald analysis is less than credible.  He wants us to believe there are "alternate facts" to explain it all, and yet when challenged to produce these alternate facts, neither he nor anyone else is able to do so.  What a surprise!

2 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Here is a snippet from my chronology covering that period. Granted this doesn't explain some inconsistencies in the documents or the way they are being interpreted, but that has been covered by Greg Parker before:

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2019/10/lho-far-east-chronology.html

Note that this is my own chronology and Greg Parker may or may not agree with all of it.

Tracy,

Your timeline is not evidence and whether Greg Parker agrees with it is irrelevant. Here is the actual evidence we are debating:

HARVEY Oswald Departed for Taiwan Aboard the USS Skagit (AKA 105) on Sept. 14, 1958. Note "AKA 105" Under "Record of Events" near top left of this document:

The Unit Diary below shows that HARVEY Oswald was in Ping Tung, Taiwan, on Oct. 6, 1958.

Here’s a 1953 image of the ship Harvey Oswald took .  Note the “K.A. 105” lettering by the bow.

During this very same time Harvey was aboard the USS Skagit and stationed in Taiwan, LEE  Oswald was being treated for V.D in Atsugi, Japan.  From September 14 through October 6 HARVEY Oswald was in Taiwan. At the same time, from September 16 through October 6, LEE Oswald was in Japan. Medical records for NAS Navy 3835 (Naval Hospital), located in Atsugi, Japan, show numerous medical entries for LEE Oswald recorded on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6.. HARVEY Oswald's assignment in Taiwan, while LEE Oswald made numerous visits to the Naval Hospital in Japan, are an obvious "smoking gun."

How do you explain how "Lee Harvey Oswald" was in Atsugi Japan during the very same time he was on the high seas aboard the USS Skagit and then stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan?