Jim Hargrove

Sandy,

But so much of the setup seemed to target Oswald as a lone shooter.  For example:

“Lee Harvey Oswald” trying to buy the four rifles even at inflated prices from Castro’s friend Robert McKeown.  You certainly could think “ringleader” when he tried to purchase four rifles, but the rest of the frame-up evidence suggests a single rifle at play.

The Oswald look-alike making numerous appearances at the Sports Drome rifle range.

The whole Morgan’s Gun Shop charade—a single rifle.

The Irving Furniture Mart play in which “Oswald” and “family” are ostensibly looking for a gun part for a single rifle.

The Ralph Leon Yates curtain rod story, describing a package which surely could only have carried a single rifle.

The brown paper package, containing a folded brown paper bag open at both ends, which was mailed to “Lee Oswald” before the assassination and was surely intended to get Harvey Oswald’s fingerprints on it.

Then, of course, there are all those accounts of the brown-shirted and white-shirted Oswalds inside the TSBD, as well as the Great Escape so amazingly anticipated by U.S.  Army employee Stuart Reed. Why would a “ringleader” need a desperate escape?

Bill Shelley (with Lovelady) was stationed at the bottom of the rear staircase of TSBD surely to give Oswald final instructions—and probably two torn dollar bills to match with a “contact” that never existed at the TSBD.  If Oswald was truly being framed as a “ringleader” but not the shooter, why bother with all of this?

The throw-down wallet at 10th and Patton pointed to just one fellow.  Why would a  “ringleader” need a sudden escape and then feel he need to shoot a cop?  I think the evidence shows that Oswald was framed as the lone shooter.  Bringing others into it would only increase the chances of discovering the plot.  No doubt there is more evidence for this that I'm forgetting.

On 1/26/2024 at 4:45 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

OMG Jim, this anonymous telephone call is better evidence than I had realized. The real kicker is the fact that the caller mentioned Weinstock, the editor of Woman's World, which in all likelihood was a mishearing of Worker's World given that the anonymous caller had an accent. Worker's World was a communist newspaper of that time period.

Oswald had months earlier exchanged letters with Louis Weinstock, manager of The Worker newspaper. Given his high position in the communist party, and the fact that we was born in Hungary, it seems likely that this was the Weinstock mentioned by the anonymous caller. (And I wouldn't be surprised if the anonymous caller meant The Worker when she said Worker's World. Though this is of no consequence.)

The anonymous call certainly seems real and not some kind of prank. Taking it seriously, I think the most important question about the call is how it is she related the boy she spoke of to Oswald. Did they have the same name? Did they look the same?

I suppose we'll never know.

 

We’ll probably never be able to prove much about it, but to me the report of that anonymous caller always seemed to have an air of authenticity. The “EMILE KARDOS” named in the report was probably Emil Gardos (wife named Grace) who had a son named John and lived in the Yorkville area of NYC in the 1940s. He was deported for communist activities, apparently, around 1950.  There is some speculation that the Russian-speaking Oswald stayed with the Gardos family for a while before that.

Just a couple of years ago, a forum member named John Kowalski managed to contact the daughter of the Mrs. Jack Tippit mentioned in the FBI report.  The daughter said that her mother was still alive and had saved substantial notes she made about the conversation. John K. tried a couple of times to speak with the elderly Mrs. Tippit and inquire about the notes, but in the end he was unsuccessful.

The whole thing has to be regarded as a long-shot in tracing the early evidence of the Russian-speaking Oswald in America, but I’ll always wonder if there wasn’t something to it.

Thanks for these posts, Leslie.  I read Mr. Russell’s book so long ago I’ve forgotten many of the details,  but your observations indicating Oswald should have at least known, uh, something was up are interesting, and begs the question, What was he told to keep him inside the building that day and just before leaving the TSBD ?

Late last year, Len Osanic located and released a 1966 interview of Vicki Adams by Mort Sahl and and Mark Lane,  Toward the very end of the interview, Adams confirmed that Shelley and Lovelady were are the bottom of the rear staircase just a minute or so after the shots were fired.  Our bet is that Shelley gave Oswald (the Oswald killed by Jack Ruby) his final instructions, and two torn dollar bills to help identify a non-existent “contact” at the theater.

The Warren Committee lawyers seemed uncomfortable with Vicki Lawrence’s encounter with Shelley and Lovelady.
 

You raise some other interesting questions that I’ll try to study a little more.  One thing my aging brain can’t seem to recall at the moment:  Is there credible evidence Oswald claimed to be “out front with Shelley” somewhere other than in the dubious “Fritz’s notes?”
 

Mr. Caddy,

Thank you for posting this thoughtful interview.  If there is one bright spot in all this (and even one is hard to find),  it is that what is probably the most culturally pervasive critique of the Kennedy Assassination cover story ever made, Oliver Stones’ “JFK,” did at least clearly hint at a widespread coalition to kill JFK, at least up to the high ranking bureaucratic level.  If memory serves, and it may not, the older motion picture “Executive Action” even looked at a level above the U.S. military and intelligence.  Steve Thomas’s parody of it above sound spot on to me.

No doubt President Kennedy’s quiet peace initiatives and his order to begin removing “advisors” from Vietnam infuriated this coterie Steve described.  But in my opinion the most immediate goal of assassination, at least looking at events transpiring hours after the hit, was to provoke an invasion of Cuba.  I didn’t see that mentioned above. 

On 1/26/2024 at 4:24 PM, Leslie Sharp said:

If I could hug you I would!  I fought that battle for months and months on Morley's site, attempting to point out just that:  A Patsy is Not Effective if Captured on Camera During the Assassination. And the hubris of Aussies claiming to be experts in interpreting the local vernacular was especially offensive to this Texan who spent fifteen years inside the beast that was Dallas in 1963. (caveat: Greg's research in a number of other areas appears solid.)

With that out of the way, I wasn't being coy in my initial comment on this thread. We have never corresponded so I thought the Texas Theatre arrests (plural) would serve as an ice breaker.

Odum's appearance on the scene is significant to our investigation.  If he arrived at the back of the theatre at the prompting of an unidentified DP, he wouldn't appear in the photos in front. Without photos or additional testimony beyond Odum's affidavit, we have no way of knowing who he witnessed being removed from the back. If he was there, if he saw another O being walked out the back entrance, then he's even more complicit in the cover up than has been alleged.

Thanks for the virtual hug! 

Odum is interesting to me because of his association with the Magic Minox and his interaction with Cliff Shasteen, and all that Oswald car driving/non-driving confusion.  But I thought Odum was up in front of the theater as Harvey Oswald was dragged out.  Do you have information suggesting he may have gone to the back of the building?

I sincerely doubt Agent Oswald was told he was about to be framed for the murder of JFK.  His CIA contact/supervisor at the TSBD was, I believe, Bill Shelley.  

On our website, John A. wrote,

Elzie Glaze was a Dallas journalist who in 1974 met a woman who had been working for the Texas Book Depository since 1969. Her immediate supervisor was Bill Shelley, who Glaze contacted and met on numerous occasions. In a 1989 letter Glaze wrote, "Mr. Shelley claims to have been an intelligence officer during World War II and thereafter joined the CIA."

Note that Shelley appears to turn up, besides at the TSBD, in another interesting situation in New Orleans.

The top three images are of Shelley on Nov. 22, 1963.  The bottom two pix show a man (see red arrows) who sure looks like Shelley right near Oswald at the infamous leaflet incident in New Orleans.

First of all, I "Prayer Man’s" picture is too fuzzy to determine anything!  Second, the provenance of the oft-cited “Fritz’s notes” is ludicrous. Third, as the designated patsy, it would be insane to allow Oswald to be seen on the TSBD steps at the time of the assassination.  He was ordered to stay inside, no doubt.

21 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

@Jim Hargrove Can you refresh my memory as it's been years since I studied Armstrong and I don't have a copy of his work at hand.  Does he address the possibility of two Oswalds in play during the arrest at the Texas Theatre?

Hi, Leslie,

Having read some more of this thread, it seems to me you know a whole lot more than your initial post suggested <g>.

Anyway, Ron Bulman pointed to a good Education Forum discussion about the two Oswalds at the Texas Theater.  John A. and I think Mr. Burroughs sold popcorn to the Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald who, holding two torn-in-half dollar bills, was told to find a safe “contact” at the Texas Theater.  We think it was American-born Lee Oswald who was detained in the balcony and ushered out the back door of the theater, seen by Bernard Haire.

THIS PAGE on the Harvey and Lee website discusses all this, and includes the following:

Three or four minutes after HARVEY Oswald was taken out the front of the theater the concessionaire, Butch Boroughs, saw "an Oswald lookalike" arrested by the Dallas Police. Burroughs said the second man "looked almost like Oswald, like he was his brother or something." The young man was handcuffed and escorted by police out the rear of the Texas Theater and into the alley. Bernard Haire, owner of a hobby shop two doors east of the theater, saw police escort a young man, in handcuffs, out the rear of the theater. Police put the young man into a squad car and drove away. For the next 25 years Mr. Haire thought he had seen the arrest of LEE Harvey Oswald. Bernard Haire and Butch Burroughs saw police take a young man (LEE Oswald) out the back of the theater. Who, if not Captain Westbrook, had reason to escort LEE Oswald out of the back of the theater? And who at the Texas theater, if not Capt. Westbrook, had the authority to quickly release this young man and make sure that no police report was filed? Who, if not Capt. Westbrook? Bernard Haire saw this young man placed into a squad car, but there is not a single police report relating to a suspect, or anyone, escorted by police out the rear of the Texas Theater, just like there is no report of the 2nd Oswald wallet displayed by Capt. Westbrook to fellow police officers at 10th & Patton. There are, however, two police reports that state Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater.

But Messrs. Newman and Scott are clearly open to the concept of two men sharing the identity of Lee Harvey Oswald for years, as evidenced by their conversation in a San Francisco conference a few years ago.  I’ll be happy to post the dialog again if anyone missed it.

In several places in Into the Nightmare, well-known author Joseph McBride endorses “Harvey and Lee.” Here’s an example that appears in Chapter 4:

Only those deep within the government would have fully understood in 1963 that ‘Oswald’ was really two people, both simultaneously using the identities of Lee Harvey Oswald or Harvey Lee Oswald, as John Armstrong conclusively proves with a wealth of hard factual evidence in his massive 2003 study ‘Harvey and Lee’.’

Dick Russell, who wrote The Man Who Knew Too Much, supports Harvey and Lee so much that he organized a meeting with the famous director Rob Reiner and drove John and me to Rob’s house, where we all remained for the nearly 8 hour meeting.

Again, here is the list I’ve compiled so far of 15 researchers who have publicly endorsed a long-term two-Oswald analysis:

John Armstrong, Rob Reiner, James Norwood, Sandy Larsen, John Newman, Peter Dale Scott, Joseph McBride, Dick Russell, Jack White, Pat Shannan, George Schwimmer, David Mantik, David Josephs,  Robert Groden & me.

Two YouTube movies by “MrChrillemannen,”presenting John Armstrong interviews with accompanying graphics, have been viewed more than 700,000 times!

Captain Westbrook, officer Tippit and Oswald's double

and

Who impersonated Lee Harvey Oswald?

John’s work has spawned, not counting “The Other Oswald,” which is somewhat different, at least four different books in recent years.

The JFK Assassination and the Uncensored Story of the Two Oswalds

From an Amazon review: “I'd read a good chunk of Armstrong's Harvey and Lee, but Shannan provided clarity for me on the matter of Marguerite Oswald in particular and the whole thesis in general. So much easier to read this digest than the master's unedited tome.”

DOPPELGANGER: The Legend of Lee Harvey Oswald

Dr. Schwimmer’s best-seller is already in it’s fifth edition.

From the publisher’s blurb: “More than 300 sources, including many sworn testimonies & affidavits, were consulted, as well as John Armstrong’s massive research project HARVEY AND LEE. One fact led to another, until a coherent picture began to emerge from the immense pile of puzzle pieces…. That picture includes the background of Harvey as a juvenile immigrant fluent in Russian, and the creation of the second ‘Lee Harvey Oswald’ and the second ‘Marguerite Oswald.’ The picture continues with the recruitment of both Lee Oswald and Harvey Oswald by the ONI and the CIA, followed by Harvey’s assumption of Lee’s identity, his ‘defection’ to Russia, and Lee’s involvement with the Cuban revolution and the CIA..…”

Mistaken Identity

From the publisher’s blurb:  "New forensic and evidentiary material not published, proves that two individuals known as "Lee Harvey Oswald" enlisted in the U.S. Marines in 1956 using the same birth certificate. Recent genealogical research identifies them as second cousins through intermarriage of second-generation French families in New Orleans. It created a nightmare of identity for the FBI."

A fourth major book including much information on the two Oswald's was just published by our forum's own Dr. James Norwood.  It is entitled, FORMER PEOPLE: John F. Kennedy, Nikita Khruschev, and Lee Harvey Oswald at a Crossroads in History. The last chapter, the longest in the book, is called "Turning Points in Understanding a Former Person: The Two Oswalds."

And yet a few people here claim no one believes Harvey and Lee? 

To Jonathan Cohen:

The two-Oswald project was quite real.  The evidence for two Oswalds runs like a river through the entire decade leading up to the assassination of JFK.  

You obviously don’t care that you quote demonstrably false statements by Tracy Parnell even though you have the original document right in front of you for comparison.

For example, you wrote, 

Armstrong says that the woman caller "knew the Tippits were related to Officer JD Tippit." This statement is apparently an attempt to give weight to the woman's allegations. Unfortunately, it is incorrect. The FBI document states, "Mrs. Tippit received a telephone call from unknown woman who asked if Mr. Tippit was a policeman and if he was related to the policeman Tippit who was shot in Dallas”.

And yet, the actual FBI teletype says, in capital letters no less:

 MRS. TIPPIT REPLIED HER HUSBAND WAS NOT A POLICEMAN, WAS DISTANTLY RELATED TO OFFICER TIPPIT AND ASKED IDENTITY OF CALLER.

I’ll ask you to spot another inaccuracy in the material you quoted, but I doubt you’ll even try. 

Maybe you're right.  I was thinking of this part of the rules:

Members are responsible for what they post on this board. A member

will not use this board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or

defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane,

sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise

violative of any law.

Saying that the analysis I and many others believe is "idiotic" strikes me as inaccurate, abusive, hateful and, considering how you seem to do it so often, harassing.  But I'll be satisfied by whatever the mods decide.

BTW, now that I have put the source material for the Tippit's of Connecticut  report right in front of you, wouldn't you like to correct the misstatements Tracy Parnell made and you quoted?

I'm not sure about Malcolm Blunt, Pat, though I know he and John A. spent considerable time together going through documents and evidence items at NARA.  I haven't put Malcolm on the list, though, because I'm not sure where he stands on this.

At the San Francisco spy conference, John Newman and Peter Dale Scott spoke as if they were entirely open to the the long-term existence of two Oswalds, though their take on the matter seemed somewhat different than John's.  Whenever I mention all 15 researchers, I try to be careful to describe it as "two long term LHOs" or something similar, specifically thinking of Messrs. Newman and Scott.  The other 13 critics, however, are entirely supportive of the "Harvey and Lee" analysis, I'm quite certain. There are several others I'm considering adding to the list.

3 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

That's right. It is absolutely not proof of anything, at all. Yet, "Harvey and Lee" wrongly trumpets it as legitimate "evidence" in support of the idiotic theory. 

Calling any theory supported by so many people "idiotic" is clearly demeaning and against forum rules.   I have reported your post.

Let's look at what the document ACTUALLY said, and what John A. said about it.  Despite all the confusion in the previous post, note that the FBI teletype indicated that Mrs. Tippit said her husband "WAS DISTANTLY RELATED TO OFFICER TIPPIT."  

The following FBI document, an internal teletype from 11/30/63, was withheld from public view for three decades.

URGENT 11-30-63 7-37 PM EST MB
TO DIRECTOR, AND SACS DALLAS AND NEW YORK
FROM SAC, NEW HAVEN /100-18158/
NEW YORK VIA WASHINGTON
LEE HARVEY OSWALD, IS - R
ON NOV. THIRTY INSTANT, JACK D. TIPPIT, SELF EMPLOYED
CARTOONIST FOR NATIONAL MAGAZINES AND WIFE, ONE SIX FOUR
NEW TOWN TURNPIKE, WESTPORT, CONN., ADVISED AS FOLLOWS. AT
APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN THIRTY AM ON INSTANT DATE MRS. TIPPIT
RECEIVED A TELEPHONE CALL FROM UNKNOWN WOMAN WHO ASKED IF
MR. TIPPIT WAS A POLICEMAN AND IF HE WAS RELATED TO THE POLICE-
MAN TIPPIT WHO WAS SHOT IN DALLAS. MRS. TIPPIT REPLIED HER
HUSBAND WAS NOT A POLICEMAN, WAS DISTANTLY RELATED TO OFFICER
TIPPIT AND ASKED IDENTITY OF CALLER. ON ANOTHER EXTENSION
JACK TIPPIT LISTENED TO BALANCE OF PHONE CALL. THE WOMAN SAID
SHE COULD NOT GIVE HER NAME AS SHE WAS AFRAID OF BEING KILLED,
THAT SHE WAS FROM NEW YORK AND HAD TO COME "HERE" TO MAKE THE
CALL SO THAT SHE COULD NOT BE TRACED AS SHE WAS IN FEAR OF HER
END PAGE ONE

PAGE TWO:

LIFE. THE WOMAN REQUESTED THAT NOTHING BE SAID TO THE PRESS
ABOUT A WOMAN CALLING AS THEY WOULD KNOW HER IDENTITY AND SHE
WOULD BE KILLED.
THE WOMAN SAID SHE KNEW OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE WHO
WERE HUNGARIANS AND COMMUNISTS. THE WOMAN CONTINUED THAT
OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE HAD LIVED AT SEVENTY SEVENTH AND SECOND
AVENUE, YORKVILLE, NYC, THAT WHILE LIVING THERE BOTH WERE
UNEMPLOYED, GOT THEIR MONEY FROM COMMUNISTS AND SPENT ALL THERE
TIME IN COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES.
THE WOMAN THEN BEGAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY, DISJOINTEDLY,
AND NERVOUSLY. SHE STATED SHE HAD TWO NAMES TO GIVE AND
MENTIONED THE NAME EMILE KARDOS AND SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A
BROTHER IN LAW. WHEN MRS. TIPPIT TRIED TO FIND OUT WHOSE
BROTHER IN LAW THE WOMAN KEPT REPEATING THE WORD BROTHER IN LAW.
THE WOMAN STATED KARDOS IS HEAD OF THE COMMUNISTS AND THAT THIS
GROUP IN NEW YORK NOW HAS CHARTS AND MAPS. THE WOMAN SAID
SOMETHING ABOUT WEINSTOCK THE EDITOR OF QUOTE WOMAN-S WORLD
UNQUOTE BUT DID NOT GIVE FURTHER DETAILS.. THE WOMAN SAID THE
END PAGE TWO

PAGE THREE:

GROUP IN NEW YORK PLANS TO TAKE OVER THE GOVERNMENT, THAT OF
COURSE THEY WOULD DENY THIS BUT SHE KNEW IT TO BE TRUE.
SHE THEN HUNG UP ABRUPTLY. THE WOMAN NEVER GAVE ANY REASON
FOR HER CALL WHICH SOUNDED LOCAL. MRS. TIPPIT THOUGHT THE
WOMAN HAD AN AUSTRIAN OR GERMAN ACCENT WHILE MR. TIPPIT
BELIEVED IT WAS SPANISH. BOTH FELT THE WOMAN SOUNDED LIKE
A MATURE ADULT AND DID NOT HAVE A YOUTHFUL VOICE.
MR. TIPPIT EXPLAINED WOMAN MAY HAVE OBTAINED HIS IDENTITY
FROM AN ARTICLE ON PAGE ONE OF NORWALK, CONN. QUOTE HOUR
UNQUOTE FOR NOVEMBER TWENTYFIVE LAST, WHICH STATED THAT WE MAY
BE A DISTANT RELATIVE OF THE DALLAS POLICEMAN. TIPPIT SAID
ARTICLE RESULTED FROM TELEPHONE CALL FROM REPORTER WHO WAS
CHECKING ALL TIPPITS IN LOCAL TELEPHONE DIRECTORIES.
BUREAU REQUESTED TO COORDINATE ABOVE WITH ANY OTHER
INFORMATION TO DETERMINE IF PERTINENT AS NEW HAVEN HAS NO
KNOWLEDGE OF THE RESIDENCE AND ASSOCIATES OF OSWALD-S FATHER
AND UNCLE.

END AND ACK PLS
7-45 PM OK FBI WA LLD FOR RELAY
6-47 PM CST OK FBI DL FL
TU PLSDISC M
CC-MR_ROSEN

An image of the actual document can be seen HERE.

Here's what John A. ACTUALLY said about it:

In January 1962, while in the Soviet Union, Russian speaking HARVEY Oswald wrote a letter to U.S. Senator John Tower (CE 1058). The letter was later read by Vladimir Petrov, a professor and head of the Slavic Language Department at Yale University. After studying the letter Professor Petrov wrote to Senator Tower and said, "I am satisfied that that letter was not written by him (HARVEY     Oswald). It was written by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English." But the letter was written by HARVEY Oswald and, if Professor Petrov was correct, then the writer of the letter was a NATIVE Russian speaking person with an imperfect knowledge of English. Petrov's professional opinion, and conclusion, is that HARVEY Oswald (the writer of the letter) was a native speaking Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English. Russian speaking HARVEY Oswald was recruited by the CIA and sent to the Soviet Union precisely because of his ability to speak the Russian language. We are now left to ponder the early life of Russian speaking HARVEY Oswald, his ancestors, and his place of birth.

According to the Warren Report, Lee Harvey Oswald was born in New Orleans in 1939, the son of Marguerite and Robert E. Lee Oswald. But JFK researcher John Armstrong believes the FBI and the Warren Commission distorted and merged the biographies of two very different young men who both used the name Lee Harvey Oswald. The tall, husky New Orleans born LEE Oswald preferred to be called "LEE." The short, thin, and quiet boy who spoke Russian preferred to be called "HARVEY." The early life of LEE Oswald, from 1939 thru 1947, closely follows the Warren Commission legend. But nothing is known about the early life of HARVEY Oswald (prior to 1947). HARVEY first appears in Benbrook, TX, in June 1947, while at the same time LEE Oswald was living with his family in Ft. Worth. Beginning in 1947 and continuing through Nov 22, 1963, the backgrounds of both LEE and HARVEY were merged in order to create the fictional "legend" we know as Lee Harvey Oswald. We know that LEE was born in New Orleans in 1939, but what about HARVEY? Who was HARVEY and where did he come from?

The day after the assassination Mrs. Jack Tippit, of Westport, Connecticut was telephoned by an unidentified woman. This woman said she personally knew Oswald's father and uncle in New York City, who were from Hungary, promoted communism and lived at 77th and 2nd Avenue in Yorkville (NYC). This woman asked Mrs. Tippit to relay her information to Dallas authorities. This woman may have thought Oswald's relatives were communists, but in reality they were most likely working undercover for our government.

There are literally millions and millions of documents relating to the assassination of President Kennedy in the National Archives. But there is only one document, among the millions, that suggests a possible origin for Russian speaking HARVEY Oswald. An anonymous telephone tip can hardly be considered proof of anything, but it does offer an intriguing clue as to the possible location and origin of a very young HARVEY Oswald (prior to 1947) and possible family members. It should be noted that Russian is an often-spoken second language in Hungary, and it would hardly be surprising that Hungarian immigrants could speak Russian fluently.

The woman who telephoned Mrs. Tippit said she knew Oswald's father and uncle, who, she said, were Hungarians and communists. If this is true then it is probable the FBI and Director Hoover knew about these people from the early 1950s. A New York Times story of June 21, 1951 (page 16) indicated that during the previous year (1950) 21 people had been arrested in New York City and were awaiting trial for Communist related activities. One of the people arrested was Louis Weinstock, the Hungarian born leader of the Communist Party USA. Weinstock, born in 1903, was one of two names mentioned by the anonymous woman who called the Tippits of Westport, Connecticut. In December 1962, HARVEY Oswald corresponded with Weinstock, who was then general manager of The Worker.

In the early 1950s the majority of active members of the American Communist Party were actually FBI agents working under cover. These people may have acted like communists, but in reality they were agents provocateur and their mission was to uncover and identify domestic communists for the FBI. It is difficult to believe that a supporter of communism would consider participating in Communist demonstrations in the heart of New York City at the height of the McCarthy era. But it is easy to believe the FBI, through their undercover informants, knew the identities of any and all persons suspected of being communists or supporting communist activities. The fact that Louis Weinstock was active in communist activities in NYC from the early 1950s through the early 1960s is a good indication that he was an FBI agent provocateur or informant.

The woman who called Mrs. Tippit apparently knew that Oswald's father and uncle were communists and lived at 77th and 2nd Ave. in Yorkville. The House on Un-American Activities in New York had a file on a Marguerite Oswald in January, 1953. This file contained references to 1941, Nazis, and New Jersey, and was eventually discovered in a CIA office of Security file. The Assassination Records Review Board requested this file, but the request was denied. It is reasonable to assume the FBI should also have known about these "communists" Mrs. Tippit referenced. In 1959, after Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald "defected" to the Soviet Union, the FBI and J. Edgar Hoover knew about Oswald. Eight months later (in June 1960) Hoover wrote a memo to the State Department stating, "Since there is a possibility that an imposter is using Oswald's birth certificate, any current information the Department of State may have concerning the subject will be appreciated." During the time HARVEY Oswald was in the Soviet Union, the FBI received numerous reports that (LEE) Oswald was in the USA (Florida, New Orleans, Dallas). After HARVEY Oswald returned to the USA with wife and child in June, 1962, the FBI monitored his activities.

One month before the assassination (10/24/63) FBI SA Milton Kaack reviewed the birth records of Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans. By November 22, 1963 Hoover knew a great deal about the two Oswalds, and he knew that a thorough investigation into their backgrounds could expose HARVEY and LEE and the US government agency that created the "Oswald project." That afternoon (11/22/63) FBI SA James Hosty sat in on Oswald's first interrogation with the Dallas Police. Hosty was soon ordered, by an unidentified FBI counterintelligence officer, to have no further discussions with Oswald and not to investigate his background. Local FBI agents in Dallas and New Orleans would not be allowed to conduct their own, unsupervised investigations into the Oswalds or into their family backgrounds. Hoover and senior FBI officials knew perfectly well they had to manage and control their well-trained agents by telling them exactly where to go, exactly what evidence to confiscate, and specifically which people to interview and not to interview. Original FBI reports of "field" investigations and original evidence confiscated by the Dallas Police were sent to FBI headquarters in Washington, DC, where Hoover and senior FBI officials were waiting, were in complete control, and knew how to manipulate the evidence. As top FBI official William Sullivan said, "When an enormous organization like the FBI with tremendous power still can sit back and shuffle the deck of cards and pick up the card they want to show you it may be you're not going to get the entire picture. If there were documents that possibly he (Hoover) didn't want to come to the light of the public, then those documents no longer exist, and the truth will never be known."

Hoover's knowledge of HARVEY and LEE was so extensive that he knew exactly where to send his agents in order to confiscate 6-8 year old employment records, elementary and junior high school records from New York City, Ft. Worth, New Orleans, and other material that could expose the two Oswalds. Oswald's possessions, collected by the Dallas Police, were sent to FBI headquarters only 14 hours after the assassination. Within 72 hours most of the documentation that could have exposed HARVEY and LEE was already in Washington, DC. Two days later, on November 24, FBI Associate Director Clyde Tolson wrote, "Shanklin said results of the investigation have been reduced to written form and consequently the information will all be available for these two supervisors. We can prepare a memorandum to the Attorney General [Robert Kennedy] to set out the evidence showing that Oswald is responsible for the shooting that killed the President. We will show that Oswald was an avowed Marxist, a former defector to the Soviet union and an active member of the FPCC, which has been financed by Castro. We will set forth the items of evidence which make it clear that Oswald is the man who killed the President." Two days after the assassination, and five days before the Warren Commission was established, FBI leadership had already decided that Oswald was the lone assassin. The remaining task was to distribute their manipulated and fabricated evidence to the Warren Commission, which supported the Bureau's two-day old investigation that concluded "Lee Harvey Oswald" had shot and killed JFK.

What a broken record.

Here is the list I’ve compiled so far of 15 researchers who have publicly endorsed a long-term two-Oswald analysis:

John Armstrong, Rob Reiner, James Norwood, Sandy Larsen, John Newman, Peter Dale Scott, Joseph McBride, Dick Russell, Jack White, Pat Shannan, George Schwimmer, David Mantik, David Josephs,  Robert Groden & me.

Of course, Jonathan will tell us that he knows more than all the above researchers.

4 hours ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

I’ve never been able to reconcile the picture(s) of Lee in Robert Oswald’s book…which I’ve not read and don’t have either. There are so many conflicts that have to be explained away to say it’s only one individual that I’m inclined to believe there were two Oswald’s, at least for a while. 

The concept of having two individuals sharing one identity being used by certain agencies back in those days in quite believable to me. Are you aware of actual proof of sets of individuals that have either come out and admitted being part of such programs or that researchers were able to uncover? I mean hard proof like birth certificates, mother and father details, photos from school days etc.? 

Nick,

Our bet is that Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was a WWII war orphan brought to the United States by a program such as OSS lawyer Frank Wisner’s operation which brought thousands of European refugees to the U.S.  If that suspicion is correct, Harvey Oswald would not have had an American birth certificate.  Only Lee would.

As Rob Reiner recently told Len Osanic, “it’s well known that in a lot of these operations they use doubles a lot of the time, and that’s part of the obfuscation and the wilderness of mirrors….”

I made a post a couple of days ago showing how numerous spies assumed the identity of others for a protracted period of time.  CLICK HERE to see it.
 

The alteration of the 1959 so-called "defection" photo shows the techniques that were used so long ago.

John A. has analyzed the process  HERE. John believes that the original photo was probably taken by George "Hans" Wilkens in Japan.

Then, a better version of the photo was retouched to eliminate the background.

Finally, the face was altered to make it unrecognizable.

Why was this done?  The photo appeared, among other places, in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.  The photo was of American-born Lee Oswald.  But there were people in the Dallas/Fort Worth area who knew Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald, and they might notice that the picture of Lee did not match their perception of Harvey.  Therefore, the whole image needed to be muddied up.

Years later, John Armstrong asked AP/World Wide Photos for the best available image of this photo.  He was able to purchase it directly from them.

Pretty unrecognizable, eh?  Exactly the point!

Several people have used a quote that looks like this:

========================

Jim Hargrove writes:

Among those preposterous claims were:

• The moon landings were faked
• Oswald and his mother were part of a long-term double-doppelgänger scheme
• No planes hit the World Trade Center

'Crackpot' is an appropriate word for anyone who publicly promoted such nonsense. As for White's lack of ability as a photographic analyst, this was illustrated during his HSCA testimony. See Proceedings of the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations, vol. 2, pp. 338-344:

========================

I DID NOT WRITE THOSE WORDS.  JEREMY BOJCZUK DID.  IT IS A QUOTING ANOMALY.  I ADMIRED JACK WHITE ENORMOUSLY.  

There are two more researchers I forgot to mention who have endorsed John’s Harvey and Lee.  One is Dick Russell (author of The Man Who Knew Too Much), who actually organized the meeting and drove John and me to Rob Reiner’s house.

The other researcher was Jack White, who worked with John in the 1990s and produced, based in part on John’s early research, the 1993 poster titled “The Evolution of Lee Harvey Oswald.”  (See below.)

So, here is the list I’ve compiled so far of 15 researchers who have publicly endorsed a long-term two-Oswald analysis:

John Armstrong, Rob Reiner, James Norwood, Sandy Larsen, John Newman, Peter Dale Scott, Joseph McBride, Dick Russell, Jack White, Pat Shannan, George Schwimmer, David Mantik, David Josephs,  Robert Groden & me.

And here is the best photo I’ve been able to make of “The Evolution of Lee Harvey Oswald” poster.  If you enlarge the graphic sufficiently, you should be able to read the captions under each mug shot.

Thank you Charles, Ron, Denny & Sandy....

Here's my updated list of well-known JFK researchers who have publicly endorsed the two Oswald analysis:

John Armstrong, Rob Reiner, James Norwood, Sandy Larsen, John Newman, Peter Dale Scott, Joseph McBride, Pat Shannan, George Schwimmer, David Mantik, David Josephs,  Robert Groden & me.

There surely are more.  Hoping to find them soon....

Please forgive me for not having read this entire thread....

but....

Didn't Dr. David Mantik's desnsitometer readings of JFK's head X-rays prove that they were faked?

Black Op Radio’s Len Osanic just sent me an excerpt of his recent interview with Rob Reiner, during which Len asked about John Armstrong.  

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jo1vFQbutAX6HbehhY-hqHWhvfe5zx7U/view

Here is my quick transcript of what Mr. Reiner said:

John Armstrong, by the way, I think he’s brilliant that guy.  I’ve met with him, he came to my house [John brought me along too], and he has the whole thing about the two Oswalds, which is completely compelling, I mean it is totally compelling, but to explain how the two Oswalds would work, because it’s well known that in a lot of these operations they use doubles a lot of the time, and that’s part of the obfuscation and the wilderness of mirrors, they do this in many operations, but to explain all that, you know, it would take up so much real estate to explain that, and it also might get people who are learning about this for the first time …. I didn’t want to get anything in the podcast that might people go oooohh, and discount the whole thing….

When John and I were guests at Mr. Reiner’s house a few years ago, I was enormously impressed by Rob, his wife, and the two writers he was working with.  All of them seemed to have considerable knowledge of the assassination.  At the end of the long day, I asked if I could have a picture with Rob.  Mrs. Reiner snapped the photo using my phone. I’m a little shorter, but Rob and I look kind of similar, don’t you think?

Jack White made some preposterous claims in the last years of his life, but he was, and still should be, a highly respected JFK researcher and photo analyst.  He was consulted by the HSCA, publicly testified, and was apparently threatened with contempt if he presented his study of multiple Oswalds to the Committee.

Although Harvey and Lee had some similarities in their appearances, we have evidence indicating they were not, as you claim, “virtually identical.”  Evidence supplied by medical personnel (not just casual observers) indicates that Lee was two inches taller than Harvey and 20 pounds or so heaver. Texas Employment Commission interviewer Laura Kittrell met both Oswalds and told the HSCA’s Gaeton Fonzi that the two young men were “much alike in size, shape and outline, generally, there was a marked difference between them in bearing and manner.” 

When American Intel began grooming a Russian-speaking youth to eventually assume the identity of an American-born boy, both Oswalds were children, not even teenagers.  Both kids obviously had to have caretakers.  To maintain the charade, the caretaker “mom” had to have the same name as the mother of the American-born Oswald.  If the photos we have are legitimate and accurately identified (they may well not be) phony Marguerite was not selected because she looked much like the real mother.  She was not a true doppelganger, at least from her appearance.

There are clear examples of long-term impersonations used in spycraft.  For example:

Russian Spy Gordon Lonsdale/Konon Molody
 

A 

A Russian named Konon Molody, born in Moscow in 1922, was sent to Berkley, California at the age of seven to learn English and develop familiarity with American customs.  Ten years later, he returned to the USSR, was commissioned in the Soviet Navy, and started espionage training.

By 1954, Molody sailed to Canada with a birth certificate and other paperwork for a Canadian named  Gordon Arnold Lonsdale who had died c. 1943.  As “Gordon Lonsdale,” Molody had a significant career as a Soviet spy, including interactions with Rudolph Abel in the U.S. and with the British military.  He was convicted of espionage in London in 1961.

Cuban Spies Antonio and Patricio DeLaGuardia
 

The book “Castro’s Final Hour” included a photograph of Antonio and Patricio DeLaGuardia, top spies for Cuba during the 1960s, ‘70s, and ‘80s. They were identical twins, useful, among other ways, for providing an alibi when one or the other got in trouble.

Mossad officer Michael Ross

More recently, a fellow named Michael Ross was born in British Columbia in 1961. He traveled to Israel in 1982 where he eventually married an Israeli woman and joined the Mossad.  According to the Canadian daily National Post (1/14/12), “Over the next 14 years, the Canadian-Israeli assumed six different identities — one cover lasted a full seven years — and led a life wildly different from the one his family believed true so he could gather intelligence and seduce defectors.”

And the, of course, we have our most familiar case:

21 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

JH--

1. Of course, we don't know what we don't know about the fake US government's suppression of the JFK Records. What is in there?

2. But you and others contend enough material, likely mistakenly, was left to raise questions about two LHOs.

3. Ergo, I conclude other mistakes could have been in scrubbing the records, and so there may be more clues to a possible LHO double in the records. 

In general, I suspect that LHO was an intel-state asset, and that is what is being suppressed by Merrick Garland and the Justice Department at this time. 

However, if there were two LHOs, then maybe there is more material about that. 

That all sounds right to me.  Whoever is assigned to “clean up” the docs needs an intimate knowledge of the official biography of Classic Oswald®, as well as a thorough understanding of the conflicting evidence that has survived.  Over the years, MANY mistakes were made by the cover-up agents.  No doubt it isn’t easy to make an entire life disappear.

Sandy quoted a post by Lawrence Schnapf which said, in part, “We have accounts that a ONI investigation on oswald was done in the weeks after the assassination and the investigatve materials were stored at naval bases around the world so they would not be found if a record search was done  in DC.”

Like you, I sure would like to know what is in those documents, but I’ll be surprised if we ever see them.  But I do think the best avenue to decipher this case is to understand the Oswald Project, and learn how it was used to create a designated patsy in this case. "I'm just a patsy," the Oswald killed by Jack Ruby said in televised coverage.   
 

Before I’m called a crackpot for believing the FBI forged documents in this case, let me show some evidence that three alleged W-2 forms for “Lee Harvey Oswald” were actually created in 1964 by the FBI.  This was done to merge the identities of Harvey and Lee Oswald and pretend it was possible that one LHO could have worked at two different companies a total of three different times and attend junior high and high school prior to joining the US Marine Corps. Here are the three forms:

Note that these documents are NOT initialed by Dallas police, who supposedly initialed every item, including every scrap of paper, found among Oswald’s possessions.  In fact, the W-2 forms did not appear among Oswald’s so-called possessions until the FBI had quietly taken possession of them and returned them, vastly expanded, to DPD on November 26.

In the late 1990s, I helped John send high-quality blow-ups he had made of these forms to Dawn Stanford, an archivist at the IBM Corporation who maintained an enormous collection of typewriter fonts from machines all over the world.  In a follow-up phone conversation, Dawn noted that the characters on each of these W-2 forms appeared to be identical. In her words these W-2 forms "were typed with the same typewriter," and on close inspection, she considered the font to be unusual.  What is the possibility that two different companies on three different occasions would use the same unusual typewriter to prepare different W-2 forms for “Lee Harvey Oswald?”

Of course, the Social Security Administration could easily confirm the accuracy or lack thereof of the W-2 forms, but a funny thing happened to the HSCA.  In the following letter, the Social Security Administration indicated: “Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps.”  The Warren Report to explain all this?

-------------

------------

The FBI apparently faked the W-2 forms shown above, and other documents, to make the existence of the two Oswalds go away. Why?  Because it would expose the Oswald Project, which would lead directly to U.S. Intelligence.