Andrej Stancak

1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

My personal view is that either Oswald took a rifle into the building and Frazier knew it....or he didn't take one at all. 

This is dead correct. I am inclined to believe the former - Lee Oswald took a rifle to work and Frazier witnessed it, however, it may have happened on a different previous occasion, not on Friday, November 22. Mr Frazier then invented curtain rods to conceal his knowledge of Lee's rifle being in the building. Mr Frazier could know even more as they may have had a chat about the rifle while transporting it together to the Depository on some other day.

I have no doubts that Mr Frazier is a sincere man not wishing Lee Oswald anything ill and believing in his innocence. 

Buell Wesley Frazier and Lee Oswald appear to have described the same bag. In Lee's version, he carried a lunch in it and the bag was oversized because you do not always find the right size of the bag. In Buell Wesley Frazier's version, the bag was about 5-6 inches wide and 27-28 inches tall. But here comes the problem because a package of this height would not fit the distance between the armpit and a cupped hand which is how allegedly Lee carried that bag. This distance is 21 inches (please see the thread "Curtain rods revisited" for more details) much shorter than what Mr Frazier and his sister told it was. However, a bag of 21'' could be what Lee found in the kitchen at Irving, a used bag from previous grocery shoppings.

Another problem is the entire idea of curtain rods: Lee denied telling Mr Fazier anything about curtain rods, his room at North Beckley did not require any curtain rods, Marina did not mention any curtain rods, no curtain rods were found in Depository. If the package did contain curtain rods, Mr Frazier would be able to see it at once: only three curtain rods were needed for a room in North Beckley, and curtain rods are very light. Lee would not need any bag for them but even if he needed, it would be possible to say that the bag contained something of very light weight and thin. The paper would itself wrap around the rods once the bag was grabbed by the hand. Thus, I wonder what could be the reason for never saying something like: "And I really saw something thin in that bag and the package was really light weight and so I believed that the package indeed contained curtain rods." As it stands, Mr Frazier seems to believe that the package contained curtain rods. Or does he not? If not, what would be Mr Frazier explanation of the content of the package: 1. rifle, 2. lunch. 3. something else? Mr Frazier eliminated (1) and (2), so we are still left in the dark as far as the content of the package is concerned.

Linnie Mae Randle did not shy from describing the package as long (she then also settled with 27-28'' and said she had measured and checked it before coming to the Warren Commission) and bulky and that the package almost touched the ground when Lee was walking with it. However, a package 21'' x 5'' (not 28'' as such package could not fit the distance between the armpit and cupped hand) would only reach to Lee's knees. This is how a package of 21'' would look like on a person having Lee's body height and body proportions:

Yet, Mrs Randle's testimony, even if containing a contradiction, appears to leave room for the interpretation that the package contained a rifle.

So, I hope that Mr Frazier's new book will shed light on these points in credible way.

Good to see, David, that we can agree on quite important points such as Lee Oswald having a great chance to be Prayer Man or that Lee Oswald did change his clothes before being arrested. As far as the rest of North Beckley dispute is concerned, it seems we cannot resolve it at this stage, but who knows, we may in the future.

5 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Thanks for the confidence...  the point made here is that the amount of visual information available from the frames we are discussing is painfully short on detail due to its size.

David:

here is a frame giving a view of both Prayer Man's upper body and his left leg which is slightly extended and bent in the knee joint, You may agree that there is a continuous transition between his shirt and pants without a sharp division or change of contrast. This would not be the case should the trousers be black as in Lee Oswald clothes that he had on himself at the time of his arrest.

If you wish to discuss Prayer Man's stance and why did he have his left leg bent and pushed forward, can you please read relevant posts in Prayer Man is a Man thread  or post a question there else this thread will become a Prayer Man thread.

David:

I am not sure if I understand your points. You appear to turn to me with some questions such as missing items in Commission Exhibits which I cannot know and which neither prove or disprove the possibility of Lee Oswald living at North Beckley.

In the second part of your post you seem to point to the similarity between Prayer Man and Lee Oswald. I cannot agree more. The CE158  shows black trousers which Lee Oswald wore at the time of his arrest. There is a sharp contrast between the grey of his shirt (burgundy) and  black trousers after his arrest but not in Prayer Man's figure. I showed one image illustrating the contrast between the burgundy shirt and black trousers in this thread today.

To see Prayer Man's legs, you need to view unprocessed images from Darnell frames before the lady in white stepped too high and covered Prayer Man's legs. This will show you the continuous grey of Prayer Man's shirt and slacks. I am sure you can do it.

Ed:

I asked you not to turn to me unless and until you answer the question how the dark slacks CE158 (black) fit with the slacks seen on Prayer Man. If you eventually find the courage to answer this question I may then be willing to respond to your posts.

David:

I cannot answer the points which are related to poor documentation of evidence. However, not only myself but others before have noted that the "Briarloom" shirt CE151 was found among Lee Oswald's possessions, as well as two pairs of grey slacks. The presence of these items is consistent what Lee Oswald  told the interrogators - namely that he changed his shirt and slacks. It is also consistent with the clothes seen on that unknown man standing at the western wall of Depository doorway. However, the black slacks CE158 would not match the pants seen on that unknown man. And the shirt CE151 it is also consistent with some of the testimonies addressing Lee Oswald's clothes on Friday morning. 

Lee Oswald used to bring his laundry to Irving every weekend and Marina did the washing and ironing. Thus, Lee did not have to bring his laundry to local laundries. The exception was Thursday, November 21 and it looks that this visit was kind of special. It also means that Lee wore his Briarloom shirt CE151 and grey slacks to work on Thursday morning, 21/11, went in these clothes to Irving and returned to work in the same clothes on Friday morning. I do not know what were Lee Oswald's plans after he left the Depository after the shooting, however, changing his clothes would be high on his agenda. 

The black polo shirt seen on backyard photographs - could it be that the shirt got lost or damaged and then disposed of during 8 months elapsing between early March and November 22?  

The rest of items found or not found or labelled strangely - this all may be true and it may point to a bad police work. The lack of photographs of his room is certainly one of reasons for having this conversation today.  

The shirt CE151 is an essential piece of evidence. Pat Speer has discussed the shirt thoroughly in Chapter 4b of his e-book (patspeer.com). I have also collated the testimonies pointing to Briarloom as the shirt Lee's wore on Friday morning. There is a prevailing evidence that the shirt he wore on Friday morning was light-red (maroon) while the one he wore at the time of his arrest was darker and brownish (burgundy, CE150). Pat Speer believes that the reason for the lack of clear information regarding the shirt Lee Oswald wore on Friday morning was that the FBI found some fibres on the rifle butt that would be consistent with CE150 - however, how could fibres from the dark burgundy CE150 be on the rifle allegedly used during the assassination if Lee wore the lighter looking CE151 at the critical moment? My interest in CE151 relates to the arrangement of dark spots which spots can be seen both on CE151 (the one I retrieved from the NARA last June) and Prayer Man's shirt. It is all documented in "Prayer Man is a Man" thread. I hope that this may be the ultimate clue in identification of Prayer Man's identity. Therefore, my current work is focused in reviving Tom Wilson's image analysis method as this may be the only way to look more deeply into dark shapes on the shirt but also on other details such as facial features.

26 minutes ago, Bart Kamp said:

 A great example is your 3D model with Shelley and Lovelady on those steps when it has been proven and shown they had already left. 

Bart:

trolling includes responding by asking many questions whereby the number of questions diverges the attention from the thread. It is Ed who should provide answers related to his thesis, not me. Instead, I am contacting Mrs Hall to ask about the keys, I am checking the Dobbs House testimonies, I am pointing to problems which Ed's thesis has for Prayer Man's identity.

Sorry if my 3D project has upset you so much, however, it is a worthy effort which already brought results. We know much more about the Depository doorway thanks to the 3D visualisation offered in my work. It is hard to reconcile that you have once sent me some missing dimensions of the doorway which I appreciated very much. So, what went wrong? Is inclusion of Shelley and Lovelady into my Darnell model such as a big sin? What if I had reasons based on hundreds of hours spent with the photographs figuring out what each detail may mean? 

I can say that the style of communication which both Ed and you show, at least to some forum members and that includes me, is very disappointing. After all, the way you approach other fellow members tells much about what kind of person you are.

2 minutes ago, Ed LeDoux said:

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus comes to my immediate attention

 

Was there a curfew, did they get locked out if not in by 11?  (I realize the main house was unlocked... all the more reason for renter with stuff to steal to have a lock.)
Why where the basement and back garage apts entrances locked? 
Were the locks changed, and thus the keys too , regularly or ever?
What happened when you left and didn't return keys?
How many spare keys did the Johnson's have?? Who was their locksmith?
Andrej.
I hope your lawyer explains this absolves Lee as the space was OPEN to the public... Earlene see's a "man" run in run out and waiting at an inbound bus stop.
Sorry but no Grey Eisenhower Jacket was ever claimed by the Johnson's or Earlene. 
The color they do say is more reminiscent of the arrest shirt  than any Eisenhower jacket. Zipper or not. 

Search Warrant irregularities and this un-secured room are Reasonable Doubt's best friends.
I Thank you. 
Ed

This is called trolling.

2 hours ago, Ed LeDoux said:

Yes best for Andrej to not have you turn the page.

Page 4

Cheers, Ed


 

Ed: and what is so special regarding the shirt on Page 4? I pointed to page 3 because this was the page where my research in that thread started and the shirt was discussed in quite many subsequent pages. It was for John to decide if he wants to read or not.

Now you see the problem of Lee Oswald's post-arrest pants which appear much darker compared to those worn by Prayer Man. I do not expect that you would admit that your scenario which excludes the possibility of Lee changing  his clothes at his room in North Beckley also discards him as Prayer Man candidate. 

6 hours ago, John Iacoletti said:

Andrej, can you explain why Oswald being prayer man necessarily excludes the possibility that Oswald wore CE 150 to work?

John:

I would not like to open the shirt issue in this thread again as the risk is that this becomes another Prayer Man thread. The problem for no-North Beckley scenario is both the shirt and the slacks. Prayer Man wears a shirt and pants which appear as a continuous grey. This would be consistent with CE151 and his grey work pants. The slacks he wore after his arrest look black and most likely are black. Therefore, there is a contrast between his shirt CE150 (burgundy) and his very dark pants in his arrest photographs - there is no such contrast in grey between shirt and pants in Prayer Man.

In the context of this thread, it is both the shirt and the slacks which matter because according to no-North Beckley scenario Lee Oswald did not have a chance to change either.

However, people mostly argue about the colour of the shirt. Pat Speer has a very good chapter on the shirt problem in his book which is quoted along with my shirt research in this thread (starting page 3):

If you look closely on Prayer Man shirt, it has dark spots at some areas. These are consistent, at least so it appears to me, with CE151 but not CE150. Yo will find in that thread also quotes from Sean Murphy's research of Lee Oswald shirt.

If you would like to open the shirt question, please continue in the Prayer Man is a Man thread.

Please find here the contrast in grey between CE150 and black pants in a photograph of Lee Oswald after his arrest. There is no such contrast in Prayer Man.

Mrs Pat Hall replied through FB Messenger to my information request regarding the keys rules in 1026 North Beckley. Here is how she described the rules:

"Thank you for contacting me. Mr. Lee lived in the main house. Therefore he did not have keys to the front door or his room. Those living in the basement or the back house had keys to their own entrance level and a key to their own room. "

This should explain why no keys were found on Lee Oswald after his arrest.

Ed:

posts like your last one say a lot about  the state of mind and personality of their author. There is nothing that could cure your irrational and divergent style of writing. Please do not turn to me again unless you respond the question I asked several times: where did Lee Oswald change his pants and shirt after he left the Depository on Friday afternoon. If he did not, you would discard him as Prayer Man candidate. The reason I am still responding to your posts is that your posts exclude Lee Oswald as Prayer Man candidate. Otherwise, I would let you alone with your accusations and personal attacks after having stated that I disagree with your style of posting and the main thesis.

Ed:

you again avoided answering my question I asked repeatedly - if there was no North Beckley in Lee's itinerary, where did Lee Oswald change his pants and shirt? As if he did not, he could not be considered as Prayer Man due to discordance of colours of Prayer Man's and Lee Oswald' arrest clothes. Why are you avoiding this question?

Both my explanations, the conspiracy and non-conspiracy one, are very probable and they could even be valid simultaneously. Captain Fritz was not in the plot before the assassination, only in the post-assassination cover-up . He realised pretty soon that his men were involved, basically once he arrived to the sixth floor. 

As per monitoring Lee Oswald in Oak Cliff, there is a record of Officer Tippitt actually being in the same restaurant (Dobbs?) as Lee Oswald, maybe on the 21st? Lee Oswald was loudly complaining about eggs he had for breakfast and Tippitt was around but did not intervene. This would be fully consistent with the possibility that a small number of officers knew about Lee's whereabouts in Oak Cliff before the assassination.

As far as the knowledge of Beckley's rooming house among Depository employees is concerned, Buell Wesley Frazier knew about Lee renting a room in Oak Cliff and if he knew, I see as probable that other Depository employees knew too. Of course, it is difficult to prove who knew about Lee's rooming house. 

One of the reasons for which Lee chose room in 1026 North Beckley was the proximity to the bus stop for a bus which took him directly to Elm Street. It is a pity that no one has interviewed bus drivers and regular passengers about seeing Lee Oswald on a bus line from Oak Cliff to Elm. However, absence of such investigation does not disprove his regular bus rides from Oak Cliff to Elm and back.

--------------------

The incident in Dobbs House is described in William Drenas' paper: "Car #10 Where are You? The document can be read here: https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/car10.htm

"The first reference I could find to Tippit's activities on that day are the statements made to the FBI by Mary Ada Dowling, a waitress at the Dobbs House Restaurant, at 1221 North Beckley, (at the corner of North Beckley and Colorado) in Oak Cliff near Oswald's rooming house and Methodist Hospital. On December 6,1963, the FBI was investigating possible links between Oswald and Ruby when Mary Ada Dowling gave them the following information. She professed to recognize pictures of Oswald who had eaten breakfast at the restaurant usually between 7:00 and 7:30 A.M.. She recalled the person, now recognized as Oswald, was last seen by her in the restaurant at about 10:00 A.M. Wednesday, November 20th, at which time he was "nasty," and used curse words in connection with his order. She went on to relate that "Officer J.D. Tippit was in the restaurant, as was his habit at about that time each morning, and shot a glance at Oswald." She said there was no indication, however, that they knew each other....

... On 12/5/63 The FBI questioned Sam Rogers, Manager of the Dobb's House. He related that since President Kennedy's assassination he recognized Oswald's picture as being that of an individual who had been a coffee customer in the Dobbs House. On that same day they also questioned Douglas Leake, another employee of the Dobbs House. Leake claimed that he had recognized pictures of Oswald as being a person who had been in Dobbs House about two times during the days preceding the assassination. Mrs. Dolores Harrison a Dobbs House employee for six years also told the FBI she recalled Oswald having been in the Dobbs House for breakfast, specific time unrecalled. She stated she recalls this particular occasion, inasmuch as Oswald had ordered "eggs over light" and, when served, made a complaint that the eggs were "cooked too hard." Mrs. Harrison advised she prepared Oswald's eggs and Mary Dowling served them to him. Mrs. Harrison went on to say that when seeing Oswald at the Dobbs House he "did not talk much and was always reading magazines or books." She related although she saw Oswald at the Dobbs House a number of times she did not know his identity until seeing his picture in the newspapers as the accused assassin of President Kennedy."

Bill Drenas has mistaken "Eldorado" for "Colorado" in his article. Anyway, here we have Officer Tippitt frequenting a place where Lee Oswald used to eat and which has a direct view of 1026 North Beckley.  

There are couple explanations of how Police learned about North Beckley as Lee Oswald's address.

1. A conspiracy explanation: a very small number of police officers watched Lee Oswald's steps after he arrived at Dallas in October. They knew his work address, they knew about Irving, they knew about North Beckley. They might have been around in Oak Cliff and were checking on Lee Oswald perhaps on everyday basis. Officer Tippitt might have been one of the few officers who knew Lee Oswald's Oak Cliff address. These officers were responsible for submitting Beckley address to Captain Fritz once Lee Oswald landed on the third floor of Police department. It is possible that the same officers followed or tried to follow Lee Oswald right after the shooting which would explain Earlene Roberts testimony of seeing a police car 106, 107, 207 or 270  stopping and honking twice in front of the rooming house.

2. A non-conspiracy explanation: Depository employers were brought to the Police headquarters before Lee Oswald and when one or more of them saw through the glass walls Lee Oswald as he was paraded in handcuffs, they pronounced his name. Charles Gevins was one of them. This guy or these guys could also add that Lee lived on Beckley and a police officer who heard this information went to Captain Fritz's office and told him that Lee had a room on Beckley. Captain Fritz took this information and started to probe Lee Oswald about Beckley - this is described in Captain Fritz testimony for the Warren Commission. Based on the description of the neighbouring area provided by Lee Oswald, Captain Fritz knew it was North Beckley where Lee Oswald lived and sent his men there right away.

Both explanations safely assume that Lee Oswald lived in North Beckley rooming house.

Mrs. Patricia Hall is a valuable witness and one of only few remaining, and she is willing to share her memories. I see no grounds for accusing her from lying or misleading the public. Her little enterprise - museum - at least gives people a chance to visit a place of some historic significance. Patricia does not look like a rich person and she might be welcoming the opportunity to earn a bit of money from the tours. Who knows, she might have to sell that house if not the tours. 

Larry: I look forward to reading your new paper. It may be a good idea to make a thread here on EF to discuss your theses.

Interestingly, I agree with Ed that the Police were instrumental in framing Lee Oswald. However, I believe in a subtle framing in which the plotters used Lee's past activities to their advantage and did not need to change too much - they rather adjusted to what Lee gave them. Anyway, I would also postpone my version of Lee's framing until I do some more work.

6 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

That he would talk about something like that at that point in time has always blown me away but it might indicate that he truly had little clue about what was going on, that he had not done anything that he was guilty of and he suspected that it was all a bogus and he had been arrested simply because he had been in Russia as he said to the press - and that he was confident no charges would stick and he would be released or certainly not convicted

Larry:

this goes to the heart of the whole mystery called Lee Oswald. I agree that his statement about taking him because he was in Russia and another statement "I don't know what is all this about" suggest that he did not have any awareness of being involved in any of killings on Friday, November 22.

However, that would also mean that somebody knew his history well, that he was closely followed before the assassination and especially during the day of assassination, and that his address in Dallas was known to Police in advance of his arrest. A large number of people would need to be involved in this type of framing of an innocent man, a father of a young family,  and some of them would consent to murdering  both JFK and Officer Tippitt. 

There is an intermediate possibility: Lee Oswald was not part of the JFKA plot but he realised that he may be considered as accessory to the fact because of his knowledge of some activities surrounding JFK's visit (or even more). That would be along the line that Lee was involved in some intelligence games which he did not understand fully. It was for this reason of realising that he was in precarious position after the shooting that he decided to leave the Depository. Leaving the place which was the epicentre of the crime just a few minutes after the shooting without any effort on his part to understand what has happened appears strange. Lee Oswald was a political man, admired Kennedy, and it would fit much better his style if he stayed in or around the building to find out as much as he could. How probable is to leave the building from which the shots could have been fired and be in the cinema in Oak Cliff some 35 minutes later just to watch a movie as if nothing happened? Was watching the film more important to Lee Oswald than the killing of President?  Or, in support of some intelligence games played with Lee Oswald, was he supposed to meet someone in Texas Theatre? (I read your book Someone Would Have Talked).

I do not pretend knowing which type and degree of Oswald's involvement is the most likely one. If Lee was somehow aware of a group of people who could commit the assassination and if those people were associated with intelligence or government, he would likely say that he did not understand his situation and that he expects someone to come forward to help him with legal assistance, and he would be feeling sure he would be exculpated. If he knew who was framing him and still did not say right away, there was some reason for it, and this could be the reason for his own demise only two days later. 

Late edit: Lee Oswald could have been left out of the loop for his entire Dallas period after his sheep dipping in New Orleans. In New Orleans, Lee Oswald liaised with ultra-right, anti-Kennedy people such as Guy Banister and David Ferrie. He might have been aware, even if only from their anti-Kennedy rants, that an assassination was in the air. He went back to Dallas and was relatively on his own during October and November. However, when shots rang out he realised, based on what he heard in New Orleans, that the assassination happened and that he may be the patsy whom the plan assumed to have. That would explain both his low political activity in Dallas (compared to New Orleans) and his fleeing the assassination scene. Lee Oswald was also very concerned about FBI agent Hosty's visits to Irving. He might have associate these visits with his New Orleans links and felt uneasy about being associated with ultra-right forces discussing killing the President. 

Ed:

if you prefer believing in Depository->Brewer shoe store scenario, it is your choice - I cannot believe in speculations with no positive data supporting your scenario. There are no data to support your theory except your allegation that all people seeing Oswald in 1026 North Beckley before the assassination had lied and all law enforcement officers coming to North Beckley after the shooting were part of a monstrous cover up. They all pretended, including Mr. and Mrs. Johnsone and Earlene Roberts, that there was a police search in North Beckley for Lee Oswald. Later, many of them lied under oath about 1026 North Beckley.

However, you again avoided the point I am mostly concerned about: where did Lee Oswald change his grey work pants and his light-red (some say maroon) shirt CE151 for the black-looking trousers and dark brown-red (burgundy) shirt CE150? You have a choice: 1. Lee Oswald did change his clothes after he left the Depository and before he was arrested and he could then be considered as Prayer Man candidate, or 2. He left the Depository (route unknown but taking neither the bus-taxi route nor light-coloured Rambler route) and went directly to Brewer's shoe store to wait for Marina and Ruth and children (they never admitted such meeting in Oak Cliff on Friday noon, they rather listened to a broadcast covering President's visit) without changing the clothes he wore on Friday morning. That would mean he had the dark trousers and dark looking shirt on him while at work, and the colours of this garment would exclude the possibility of Oswald being Prayer Man.

On 2/27/2020 at 8:13 AM, Ed LeDoux said:

He did have the possibility of meeting Ruth and Marina for a shoe shopping expedition they were planning to do that afternoon. (postponed due to Kennedy death)
Recall Lee did ask Marina to buy shoes for Junie.
The shoe store sighting has always said to me Lee checked the store but since his wife wasn't there he went to the theater to waste time... or simply saw what kids shoes they had in the display...?

Please correct me if I misunderstood the new scenario for Lee Oswald, however, this is what I get from Ed's posts: Lee Oswald somehow got to Oak Cliff (route unknown), to the shoe store where he was supposed to meet Marina  and Ruth Paine with their children and buy shoes for June. The randezvous was cancelled because of Kennedy's assassination but he went to that shoe store anyway. As Marina and Ruth and children did not turn up (but the meeting was already postponed so why would Lee expect them to come), he went to Texas Theatre just to spent time there. 

I find this scenario improbable and logically inconsistent but what is of greater concern is that nowhere in this scenario is there any stop at a place where Lee could change his clothing. Lee Oswald left, at least some people still assume so, 1026 North Beckley about 7.30 AM on Thursday, November 21. He went to work and after work, instead of returning to his rooming house, he went to Irving with Buell Wesley Frazier. He then came straight to work on the next day, November 22, without being able to change his clothing. Thus, he had the same work clothes on him the whole Thursday and Friday morning. 

The point is that Lee changed both his pants and his Briarloom shirt before his arrest. That has been discussed in another thread, however, if someone is able to prove that Lee Oswald wore the same dark brown shirt CE150 both on Friday morning and Friday afternoon after his arrest,  he/she can be congratulated for clearing one of the greatest mysteries in JFKA case because, under such scenario, Lee Oswald could not be Prayer Man. The dark CE150 would not fit the shirt seen on Prayer Man in Darnell, only the light-red CE151 shirt would. 

Take away 1026 North Beckley (or some other credible address) as a place where Lee Oswald changed his pants and shirt after he left the Depository and Lee Oswald can be discarded as Prayer Man. 

Late edit: it is easier to see that Lee Oswald, if he was Prayer Man,  changed his slacks after he left the Depository because those he wore at the time of his arrest were very dark, possibly black, while Prayer Man's pants are of much lighter colour.

John:

some of the authors I quoted spoke to Mrs. or Mr. Johnson. They were conspiracy researchers and sensitive to any false information fitting the official version. These people were not gullible or poorly informed. It is therefore useful to know their views. Actually, it is part of good research to familiarise with the views of first or second generation researchers. 

Ed:

thanks for taking time to respond. However, I find your responses as again diverging away from the simple question I asked. Your last post is enough for me to see that you do not have any positive evidence about alternative address of Lee Oswald in October and November 1963. How many people had to lie to make your story possible? Ten, twenty? How many people would have to lie under oath and risk ending in jail and loss any self-respect for the rest of their lives? People usually do not lie, only if their existence or existence of their loved ones is in grave danger. However, this was not the case of witnesses in 1026 North Beckley.

I can now retire from this thread. Actually, I may come back if Mrs Pat Hall would respond to my request for information regarding the keys rules in North Beckley rooming house. The lack of keys in Lee Oswald's possession during his arrest puzzles me and I would like to understand this point. 

1 hour ago, Ed LeDoux said:

Andrej that would be your own deficit if you can not accept evidence as evidence. This is not cryptic writing.

The 'facts 'are that nothing Steve, yourself or the authorities put forth is convincing, let alone verified.

Quite the contrary, no matter the "style" presented the fact is no evidence showed Oswald stayed at Beckley.

Phone numbers in books do not suffice.

Why do you feel the need to appeal to authority when these authorities have been discredited is the question I have for you Andrej.

If you, Andrej are on a bus from work to a theater then obviously you did not change clothing mid stream.  

The wild rides to get Oswald to Beckley have too been dismantled.

They never happened.

So why is the continuation of the Warren Commission's route for Oswald any more sacred?

It is no longer possible that these murders were feats of Oswald's. The police were framing Oswald just like many others. We know Will Fritz's true history and how he worked.

To say any of the essay or these facts are disputed is disingenuous. 

They merely upset you and your apple cart, guess you should watch the road rather than polls or popular notions.

Better buckle up Andrej, more curves ahead.

Cheers, Ed

PS If you need a translation of the above come to ROKC and It will be apparent.

Ed:

what evidence are you talking about? There are witness testimonies taken under oath and there are interrogation reports saying that Lee Oswald stayed at 1026 North Beckley. There is Pat Hall's interview. There are interviews made by first generation researchers (e.g., Joachim Joesten) which say the same. This is enough evidence and I do not need to show more evidence. After more than 56 years I cannot provide any new evidence. The onus is with you to demonstrate that this evidence does not stand because you have positive evidence for Lee Oswald staying at a different place - you would have an address of that other accommodation, witness testimonies, bills or other documents supporting alternative address of Lee Oswald in October and November 1963. However, you do not have any such evidence. The problem is not me refusing to accept evidence, you see I am accepting it. I just see no evidence on your part.

The authorities I am referring to are well-respected, often first-generation researchers. Their research is more authentic than my ever can be because I am not in position to do my own interviews, watch how people respond, trace all living witnesses associated with 1026 North Beckley, talk to surviving neighbors etc. This is what you should have done if you wished to put forward this topic.

If I ask you about you about the meaning of your sentence alluding that Oswald wore the same clothes at work on Friday morning and after his arrest, you answer this way:

"If you, Andrej are on a bus from work to a theater then obviously you did not change clothing mid stream.  " 

I mean, is this a clear answer? It is not about me taking bus and changing or not changing my clothing before going to movies. May I ask you again to explain your view on whether Lee Oswald did or did not change his clothes after leaving the Depository? It is a simple yes or no. This is a highly relevant question in the context of 1026 North Beckley and the identity of Prayer Man, and actually my strongest reason to spent time with your thread. The point is that Lee did change his pants and shirt after leaving the Depository and before he was arrested. This could only happen at a place where he lived. If he did not change his clothes at his rooming house 1026 North Beckley, where did he? Did Police know about that other address and how if Lee did not tell them? Did they send a fake squad to 1026 North Beckley but actually retrieved his belongings from that other address? Do you have any evidence supporting this scenario?

"They merely upset you and your apple cart, guess you should watch the road rather than polls or popular notions."

No, I am not upset although I admit that I am spending more time with this thread than I would wish. However, it seems that there is just no one from senior members of this Forum wishing to take part and express their views, and I do not want this case to be demolished with faulty interpretations more than it has been done, and so I actually feel obliged to respond. However, I guess I did my bit and if I withdraw from this thread nobody can blame me for not engaging any longer.

"Better buckle up Andrej, more curves ahead. "

You mean, more of similar theories in your sleeve?

"PS If you need a translation of the above come to ROKC and It will be apparent."

I do not need any translation from you or members of another forum. I just want you to write in focused, accurate sentences rather than in your divergent style with some small nasty comments intermingled.

Ed:

I confess I have difficulties following your creative style of writing with references to some stories in which you are posing as the one who can see through and the rest who do not are  fools at best. 

There was an interesting point in your latest post about the key not being found in Lee Oswald's possessions. I wonder if Mrs Pat Hall could be asked about how the rooming house operated as far as guest keys are concerned. Else, the missing key is a real red flag.

Could you please explain the following:

"Where would he get the jacket and pistol to kill Tipppit, yeah... let alone change his clothes TO those of Prayerman."

What do you mean with "...let alone change his clothes TO those of Prayerman" ? 

Ed:

several outstanding researchers interviewed people who witnessed Oswald's presence at 1026 North Beckley. Other researchers did not speak to those people but they are not gullible and information they communicate in their books can be trusted. None had questioned North Beckley as Lee Oswald's rooming house.

Please find here quotes from outstanding books and well-respected authors. None of them had questioned 1026 North Beckley as Lee Oswald's address. Maybe these authors, if not Steve or me, can awake a bit of doubt in your mind about whether pursuing your extraordinary theory is sound and whether it does any good to the JFKA case. 

Dane, Stan: Prayer Man: Out of the Shadows and into the Light, Martian Publishing, 2015, Location 3912 in Kindle Edition.

“Sean replied Prayer Man's shirt appears to be buttoned up fairly high. Fritz's transcription of Bookhout's interrogation notes indicates that Oswald told Fritz he changed shirts back at his rooming house—the shirt he was wearing when arrested was not the shirt he went to work in—that was a "reddish" shirt. A "maroon and grey cotton" shirt was found among Oswald's effects at N. Beckley Ave.  "What I wouldn't give to see a photo of it," said Sean.”

[A.S.: Sean, the photograph you wished to view was acquired from NARA in June 2019 and posted on EF a few times.]

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Garrison, Jim. On the Trail of the Assassins: One Man's Quest to Solve the Murder of President Kennedy . Paperless Publishing LLC. Kindle Edition. Location 3255.

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Griggs, Ian. No Case To Answer . JFKLancer Productions & Publications, Inc.. Kindle Edition., location 3446

Joesten, Joachim. Oswald: Assassin or Fall Guy? (p. 73). Iconoclassic Books. Kindle Edition. (Spoke to Gladys Johnson)

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Lane, Mark. Rush to Judgment . The Lane Group, LLC. Kindle Edition. Location 3108

McBride, Joseph. Into the Nightmare: My Search for the Killers of President John F. Kennedy and Officer J. D. Tippit (pp. 431-432). Hightower Press. Kindle Edition. Page 431.

“Gary Murr wrote in his pioneering 1971 monograph, The Murder of Dallas Police Officer J. D. Tippit, “It is true that Oswald was probably heading to his rooming house in Oak Cliff at 12:45 p.m. However, it is inconceivable that the dispatcher or Tippit, or Nelson knew of this. Oswald’s Oak Cliff address was unknown to his wife Marina or his employers at the Book Depository, let alone the Dallas police.” But was it inconceivable? The address of Oswald’s rooming house, 1026 North Beckley Avenue, where he had been living since October, supposedly was not discovered by the police until after his arrest, which was reported at 1:51. But perhaps, with all we have learned in the intervening years since Murr wrote about the Tippit killing, it is not so inconceivable that the Dallas police knew of Oswald’s Oak Cliff address at the time Oswald was headed there from downtown Dallas. Murr’s account shrewdly acknowledges the likelihood that Oswald was en route to Oak Cliff around the time of the radio order allegedly issued to those two officers, allowing the reader to infer (despite Murr’s denial) that there was a direct and suspicious cause… “

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Meagher, Sylvia. Accessories After the Fact: The Warren Commission, the Authorities & the Report on the JFK Assassination (p. 229). Skyhorse Publishing. Kindle Edition.

“According to the Report (WR 182) examination of the register at the rooming house revealed that the signature “O. H. Lee” was in Oswald’s handwriting. It seems entirely credible that he registered under that assumed name. He had stayed at another rooming house for a week, and the landlady, Mary Bledsoe, had asked him to leave. Oswald felt, whether or not justifiably, that his history of residence in the Soviet Union and his unpopular political views had provoked his dismissal from jobs and perhaps his eviction from the rooming house. (1H 46) Thus it is understandable if he registered at the Beckley Street establishment under an assumed name; not even the Commission has seen this as criminal in motivation.”

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Marrs, Jim. Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy (pp. 551-552). Basic Books. Kindle Edition.

“Oswald left the Depository and made his way to his South Oak Cliff rooming house, where he retrieved his pistol to defend himself. His landlady said that within minutes of his arrival, he hurried from his room after a Dallas police car stopped out front and beeped its horn twice.”

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Summers, Anthony. Not In Your Lifetime: The Assassination of JFK . Headline. Kindle Edition. Loc 4482.

“Superficially, the last forty days of Oswald’s life were unremarkable. After five days renting from a first landlady with whom he did not get on, he took a room at 1026 North Beckley—registering under the name “O. H. Lee.” To the owners of the house and to fellow tenants, Oswald seemed quiet, lonely. He spent most evenings reading or watching television, rarely made conversation. He visited Marina almost every weekend.”

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