Andrej Stancak

22 hours ago, Jake Hammond said:

 IMO.... if the lady in the image above was claimed to be PP, and everyone agreed that Oswald was lets say, in the lunch room, then this would be a home run done deal, no questions asked. That lady matches perfectly, it is only the willingness of researchers to believe that its Oswald that changes things. 

Jake:

I would not subscribe to the possibility that the lady depicted in Denis's photograph could be Prayer Man. Please find here a few spots that raise doubts. The colour of lady's shirt appears to be a problem too - the right side which is in shadow would be too dark to match Prayer Man's shirt. However, we would need to know much more about this lady to be able to probe this possibility a bit more. For instance, the lady does not seem to be tall enough to be 5'9 3/4'', Prayer Man's body height. On a different note, this lady appears to have photographed Dealey Plaza and no one seems to have seen any pictures...

Your other comment referred to Buell Wesley Frazier who did not identify Prayer Man as Lee Oswald. I did study Buell Wesley Frazier thoroughly over the years, including his new book "Steering Truth". Answering your point would require me to write a lengthy essay whiich I would not do here and today. Very briefly, in the light of  Mr. Frazier's ever-changing testimonies about essential aspects of the case and considering the state of his mind in the context of the assassination events, both back then and now, I would not take Mr. Frazier's lack of identification of Prayer Man as Lee Oswald as a critical validation of Prayer Man's identity.    

Greg:

By reconstruction I meant a computerised, graphic model of indvidual actors overlaid onto precise floor plans, similar to what Mark Tyler did with his Dealey Plaza model. Else, we risk that our enthusiasm would sway the solution in favor of one possibility. One can write any broad time estimate for any trajectory and say two trajectories intersected at one point, however, it needs to be tested. This can be done by finding a building with identical layout to the Depository 63', or drawing the floor plans with all details on large flat surface and timing the movements of individual actors, or constructing a detailed computer model that considers real floor plans, includes the doors (as those cause delays) and other details, and allows for testing different trajectories and velocities of individual actors. Unless this is done, I would be able to only roughly say that the possibility of Lee leaving the doorway soon after Darnell stopped filming and being spotted by Baker as he (Lee) was entering the second-floor lunchroom could exist. What would be your preferred method to test the first-to-second floor scenario?

For the sake of historical record, I was not the first who raised the possibility of this scenario. Bill Kelley soon after he opened the thread "Oswald leaving TSBD?" suggested this possibility for the first time, possibly in August 2013. There was only one reply to his post, by Sean Murphy, who considered the timing tight but possible.  

21 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Andrej, I don't know if you have seen it but it not I would refer you to the recent work extending Matthew Smith's Red Bird leads which David Boylan and I have done, you will find two several post on my blog related to "Red Bird Leads" including a link to extended interviews on two shows with Chuck Ochelli.  We also did two presentations on this at the recent JFK Lancer conference and there will be a lengthy monograph on both leads going up on MFF in the first quarter.  

I suspect you will want to consider what is in Red Bird Lead#2 in respect to your "Symptoms" piece.

Larry:

I remember reading your research on Red Bird airfield events within the time frame of assassination. I will surely refresh - here I wanted to quote the book which was perhaps the first to phrase and support with some evidence pertaining to the second plot hypothesis. Thanks for reminding me to check your follow up research.

21 minutes ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

Hi Greg,

 

Very reasonable. It is my unreliable opinion that we have yet to determine the culpability of Oswald. In your own analysis you have Oswald acting to avoid contact in the TBSD, so the obvious question is why? He almost certainly had links to intelligence and perhaps mistrusted the DPD when it came to blowing whatever cover story he was acting under. I find the idea persuasive that Oswald had a sudden realisation in the TBSD that, whatever he was doing covertly, was somehow linked to the assassination. 

 

Eddy:

I wrote an essay on what could be Lee Oswald's awareness of assassination plans titled "Symptoms of foreknowldge"

https://thejfktruthmatters.wordpress.com/

After writing this blog post, I happened to read the book "JFK. The Second Plot" by Matthew Smith (1992). This book outlined the possibility that Lee Oswald knew nothing about the plot itself because he was tasked with another plot: to travel to Cuba from Redbird airfield on Friday afternoon, with JFK's visit (not his killing) being used as a distractor covering the airplane departure. Oswald's movements in the Depository building including his early leaving the building could be a part of his planned meeting with a contact in the Texas Theatre who would take him to Redbird airfield, so he was maybe told. It was quite essential in Lee's framing that a spot at which he could be located was known to the conspirators.

That said, if Lee Oswald stood in the doorway as Prayer Man, it still could be that he was captured by Darnell during the moments of his realisation that his "second plot" was related to the assassination itself.

I may need to write an addendum to "Symptoms of foreknowledge" to cover also the second plot possibility.

Greg:

thanks for your astute comments on Lee Oswald's movements during and just after assassination. I am glad that you have read the posts in this thread. This thread is just a humble continuation of the original breakthrough thread "Oswald leaving TSBD?" started in 2013.

As far as Prayer Man's identity is concernded, the identification follows the logic of circumstantial evidence. At this stage, we are still at the stage of verification by exclusion. It goes like this: someone has a hypothesis as to who this person could be and compares all recogniseable features in Prayer Man and the candidate person. If only one of the objectively determined features would differ, the hypothesis would be refuted. For instance, if we posit that Prayer Man was Lee Oswald and Prayer Man would show dark skin colour indicating his Afro-American descent, we would refute the hypothesis even if other features (e.g., body height) would match. One disparity between Lee Oswald and Prayer Man would be enough to reject the identity of Prayer Man as Lee Oswald. However, this logic applies to other candidates too: if someone would hypothesise that Prayer Man was a person with blonde hair, such hypothesis could be rejected outright as Prayer Man had dark hair, similarly dark like hair seen in Buell Frazier's figure. 

So far, not one feature in Prayer Man's figure contradicted the possibility that Lee Oswald could be that person. The strength of circumstantial evidence depends on the number of independent observations supporting an explanation or hypothesis. The odds ratio of someone being Prayer Man increases dramatically with every new feature shared by Prayer Man and the candidate person, and after accounting several features, the odds ratio becomes that high that it basically excludes anyone else as a candidate. For instance, if odds ratio would be 700,000:1, that would suggest that only one person in the whole city of Dallas in 1963 had a chance to show simultaneosly all Prayer Man's features.

Analysis of dark spots on Prayer Man's shirt and comparing them with those seen in CE151 is a part of the process of testing all possible features on Prayer Man's figure as to whether they would match Lee Oswald's figure and clothing, and it is a further step following the same logic: find one feature that does not match Prayer Man and refute the candidate. As a bonus, every new feature that proves to be identical in Prayer Man and the candidate, increases the odds ratio substantially, contributing to the strength of circumstantial evidence.

I can agree with many points in your reconstruction of Lee movemevents, including the possibility that he may have entered the second floor lunchroom twice - once to get Coke for his lunch (before the shooting) and then again, after the shooting. Oswald's last presence in the second floor lunchroom is murky and poses a valid question as to whether it actually happened. If the second floor lunchroom encounter between Oswald and Baker happened as reported in official reports, Lee Oswald could only enter the vestibule from the hallway of the second floor offices which would exclude him as the shooter. It remains to be determined whether there was enough time for Lee to leave the doorway when Darnell stopped filming and to reach the vestibule of the second floor just on time to be seen by Officer Baker. Actually, I started a modelling project to reconstruct the trajectories of all players (Truly, Baker, Oswald, Styles, Adams, Garner), however, the progress is just too slow due to my current work load. It should be also pointed out that Lee could not just sit in the second floor lunchroom during the shooting and encounter Baker there as proposed by some researchers because Officer Baker would not be able to spot him; Baker could only see a figure of someone moving at the moment when he (Baker) stepped on the platform of the second floor and the other person would be still in the small vestibule leading to the lunchroom. Baker could not see anyone in the lunchroom itself from any point at Baker's trajectory. If Lee was walking through the vestibule just to enter the lunchroom, he only could be coming from the second floor office area (hallway) and that path would lead to the glass door area in the first floor. 

Having high-resolution, e.g. 4K, copies of Darnell film would certainly strengthen the possibility of revealing Prayer Man's identity. I did contact Gary Mack back in 2016 and received the same response you quote in your post. I am not sure if I have enough resources and time to pursue the issue at this moment. My plan would be visit the Sixth Floor museum to both inspect the copy on display (supposedly a better one compared to what we all use), show them the work done so far, and see what would be the best way forwards. However, this may need to wait for still some time until I will be able engage into JFKA research more. However, even if we acquire high-resolution copy of Darnell film, I am afraid that Prayer Man's identity could still be solved only on the basis of circumstantial evidence.

For a comparison, Weberman's Oswald's Code, a book having similar concept, contains high resolution color copies of individual pages of Oswald's diary. I would consider as mandatory to present high-quality reproductions of Laffitte's diary. If those are not available to Authors, there may be authenticity problem.

I second Greg Doudna's concerns, reading the same sections of the book. I have a Kindle version of the book, and unfortunately, the book pages with scanned diary pages provided in the Appendix sections are illegible to the extent they are worthless as to own evaluation of the diary notes. It may be that the printed book offers a better quality of individual pages of the diary than the Kindle version, however, even this may not be the case given they are 6 diary pages compressed into one book page. 

18 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

A little past half way down Houston (between Main and Elm), I heard the first shot. I could tell it came from somewhere in front of me, and high. As I looked up I noticed all the pigeons flushed off the top of the building on the corner ahead of me. And in the same period I heard the second shot, and then the third one. I couldn't see just where the shots came from but I knew they were from a high-powered rifle. I hunt a lot, and had just got back from hunting. There was no mistaking that; there were three shots, that's for sure. Though I didn't see exactly where the shots came from, I knew in my own mind they probably came from the corner building as the sound was right and because of the pigeons. So I headed there, got off my motor and entered the building (the Texas School Book Depository). It took a while because of the crowd; they had started moving in every direction.

The man who said he was the building superintendent was outside and met me at the door and went in with me. Shortly after I entered the building I confronted Oswald. The man who identified himself as the superintendent said that Oswald was all right, that he was employed there. We left Oswald there, and the supervisor showed me the way upstairs. We couldn't get anyone to send the freight elevator down. In giving the place a quick check, I found nothing that seemed out of the ordinary, so I started back to see what had happened. Not knowing for sure what had happened, I was limited in what I could legally do.

Ray:

many thanks for posting the sections of the book which I did not read, I admit. While Officer Baker is seen running to the steps in Couch/Darnell (with an unclear end trajectory), it seems that some period of time has elapsed until he and Roy Truly got to the building. 

14 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

I know the Prayer Man identification is highly controversial (and do not wish for Gil's topic to go in that direction) but to the limited extent I have looked at that question it seems to me that is in the end most likely Sarah Stanton, primarily due to the testimony of Wesley Frazier as well as the white T-shirt Oswald was wearing according to the testimony of Mrs. Reid 1-2 minutes after the assassination.

Greg:

did you actually see the photograph of Mrs. Sarah Stanton? She was a huge lady, weighing 300+ pounds, very obese, and she had thick, blonde hair. While you are entitled to any opinion regarding Prayer Man's identity, you would need to expain why Prayer Man had dark hair, not the blonde, thick hair of Mrs. Stanton. I also do not which to hijack this thread, so you do not need to answer. There is a thread on Prayer Man (quoted in my earlier post in this thread), in case you would like to convince the Forum that Stanton was Prayer Man.

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

(In opposition to what Andres says, the Archives assured me multiple times that the WC's evidence photos were all black and white, and that no color photos were available, and that, as a consequence, they would take color photographs of CE 151, for a price... They assured me as well that once I paid for the photos they would be my private possession to do with as I wished. I was dealing directly with the head guy--whose name escapes me--overseeing the JFK records. It seems ludicrous to me that he would put me through six months of rigamarole going back and forth if color photos were available to begin with... But stranger things have happened

Pat:

it seems that the strange thing indeed happened and that you were given newly taken photographs while I was sent the original coloured CE151 photograph. In my project aimed to reconstruct the dark spots on CE151 and map them onto a model shirt (then check a person posing as Prayer Man and wearing it), both the original coloured photograph and your coloured photograph of the shirt CE151 are of great value because each picture shows a couple details the other picture does not show. I hope you are not questioning the veracity of the CE151 I posted in June 2019.

Gil:

you may be interested in viewing the coloured version of CE151 which was published only as a black-and-white picture in the Warren Commission report. I was able to obtain the coloured version of the original CE151 photograph from NARA in June 2019, and posted it in the thread "Prayer Man is a Man".

The association of shirt CE151 with Prayer Man case is not random. The man who so conspicuosly resembles Lee Oswald may have worn a light-brown (redish, maroon) shirt and, if that colour is converted into grey scale and a correction for lower luminance due to shadow is applied, it would match the shade of grey in Prayer Man's shirt in Couch/Darnell film.

Prayer Man's shirt shows dark spots on the left and maybe even on the right front facing which suggests a diagonal shape of dark spots on that shirt. Such arrangment of dark spots may be owing to that person carrying dusty boxes like this:

For obvious reasons, it is not that simple to prove that the dark spots on Prayer Man's shirt would match those seen in CE151. I am terribly slow in achieving any progress on that project due to my work and life committments. However, I was able to at least arrange a couple of large-format prints matching an M-size shirt that is reasonably similar to CE151. My wife also cut the front and back leaves on the model shirt to match Lee Oswald's shirt (not shown here yet). Let us see where could this line of investigation lead to.

I would not expect any smoking gun in the still withheld documents regarding the assassination itself. That type of evidence never got to any official documents. However, it is likely that the undisclosed documents would prove that Lee Oswald was guided by the intelligence agencies for years, including his stay in the USSR and his New Orleans and Mexico missions. Once the public learns that Lee Oswald was an asset, informant, undercover agent or similar, nobody would believe in his guilt, and more investigation would be requested. Some witnesses working with the agencies may still come forward, some agents may have left letters with their attorneys. The legitimacy of subsequent presidents would be questioned, such as Johnson's, Nixon's, Ford's and Bush's. I am afraid it may be too hard even for Biden to allow such questioning.      

I sorted out my frustration by listening Murder Most Foul by the great Maestro. There is still a chance that Biden's administration will release complete and unredacted information that has been kept secret for almost six decades. Until then, we need to show faith in what we do for truth to come forward. Some people can contribute a lot, some only a little, but we all can continue wanting to know the truth.

Dallas Police were in control of all three crime scenes: the Grassy Knoll area, the Texas School Book Depository and the Tippit's murder scene. Dallas Police were able to supervise all three scenes (not necessarily act as killers) and manipulate evidence early on to mount all guilt on Lee Oswald.

James Hosty mentioned in his book "Assignment Oswald" calling Sgt. H.M. Hart from the intelligence unit, naming him his counterpart in the Dallas Police,  after 1:25 PM to compare their lists of right-wingers in Dallas area who were the initial suspects (per Edgar Hoover's initial assessment). Thus, there were contacts between James Hosty and Dallas Police prior to assassination. 

I also remember reading not very well documented bits of information about a Dallas police officer accompanying Hosty to Irving during his visits of Paine's house. Unfortunately, no hard data on such collaboration between Dallas Police and the FBI seem to exist.

Gayle:

many thanks for sharing your story here. Fingers crossed for you in your quest to find the original film recorded by your grandfather. That film is not the only one sorely missed - researchers cannot get access to Wiegman or Couch/Darnell films either, albeit for a different reason. I am not sure about the original Hughes film, however, the copies floating around on the Internet are very poor and may have even been edited. The primary visual evidence is essential for cracking the JFK assassination case.

I hope you will let us know about what happened to the Nix film.

On 8/8/2021 at 2:20 PM, Gil Jesus said:

If true, then the whole "lunchroom encounter" was a lie.

Gil:

I posted on your other recent thread on the topic of the 2nd-floor lunchroom encounter. Can you have a look? It is related to this thread and it may be useful to keep the posts related to the same topic under one thread.

Anyway, the truth about the second-floor lunchroom encounter appears to be blurred by inaccuracies in witness testimonies, e.g. those of officer Baker, and by an intentional lack of interest in mapping Lee Oswald's movements during the critical time (11:50-12:35 and later).

My view is that Baker did see Lee Oswald for a very brief moment when Baker was just stepping on the second-floor platform and Lee was about to cross from the vestibule to the second floor lunchroom. Barry Ernest wrote a very good piece on the second-floor encounter relying on early witness reports: https://thegirlonthestairs.wordpress.com/2021/03/29/the-lunchroom-encounter/

The scenario which does not require anyone lying is that Lee Oswald was eating his lunch in Domino room and heard the wave of excitement as the motorcade just turned from Main to Houston street. He walked the distance from Domino room to the front glass door, exited through the door and found a spot on the first/second step close to the western wall of the doorway. This would match Lee Oswald's statements given during his Friday 2:15PM interrogation as recorded by the FBI agent James Hosty. Hosty scribbled down Lee's words that clearly informed that he went out to watch "P. parade" and that he had his lunch on the first floor; he went briefly to the second floor to buy Coke to have it with his lunch but returned to the first floor (credit to Mr. Bart Kamp):

Lee stayed in the doorway for about 40-50 seconds, and his presence there is indicated by the Wiegman and Darnell films. He left the doorway just seconds before or after Baker and Truly entered the doorway and walked up to the second floor via the second-floor hallway. As he was passing throuh the vestibule in front of the lunchroom, Baker was able to take a brief glimpse of him, and this motivated Baker to enter the lunchroom and contront Lee Oswald.

It is unlikely that Baker would enter the second-floor lunchroom without seeing someone passing through the vestibule. Therefore, the idea that Lee was in the second floor lunchroom and quitely ate his lunch there until he was suddenly challenged by officer Baker does not sound possible.

Of course, questions arise when considering this scenario, such as why would Lee Oswald go to the second floor lunchroom again after being there some minutes before. I can only offer a speculation - Lee went to the second floor to either check the location of his rifle (if he brought his rifle into the building) or to walk up to the upper floors to find out what happened as the shooting was not something he was told would happen on that day (in case he did not bring his rifle to the building). He may have realised that he would not be able to continue his search in the presence of Baker and Truly and decided to take a different path.

I guess the timing of Lee Oswald's movements leading to the second floor lunchroom encounter while assuming Lee's starting location in the first floor needs to be examined throughly. 

Gil:

This is a great post and a thorough analysis of the circumstances of the alleged second floor lunchroom encounter. I remember reading it from a PDF retrieved by Bart Kamp couple years ago. 

In my opinion, the timing problems can still be addressed using a computer reconstruction in which movement of actors (Officer Baker, Superintendant Truly, Lee Oswald, Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles, Mrs. Garner) can be estimated using different velocities and trajectories of each actor. The critical time point would be when Baker was just stepping on the platform of the second floor and Lee would just be a second before entering the lunchroom - this was the only time instant at which Baker could have spotted Lee Oswald. From that time point, the movements of each actor need to be reconstructed backwards. Of course, we do not know the timing of each action and this can affect the total movement time. For instance, how many seconds did elapse while Truly and Baker were probing the elevator before deciding to use the stairs? Five, ten? Every time segment can add to the final time estimate, and therefore, we work with a probability estimate of the movements of Lee Oswald and Baker intesecting at the critical point.

I hope you would be able to check my preliminary analyses when they are available.

Your analysis of the events occurring in the vestibule are spot-on and corroborate Barry Ernest's investigation. It took 4 seconds for the door leading from the platform to the vestibule would stop moving before closing completely; Baker would have to see the doors still moving if Lee entered the vestibule from the platform which he did not. Thus, Lee Oswald could only enter the vestibule from the hallway to be seen by Baker in the way Baker had described. The Depository floor plan does show a door at the transition between the hallway corridor and the vestibule, however, the door was actually opened permanently. This is seen in the video of the FBI reenactment of Lee Oswald's movements, and it was also confirmed by Barry Ernest who was able to examine the vestibule during his visit of the Depository in the sixties of the last century.

Thus, if Baker saw Lee Oswald and challenged him in the second-floor lunchroom, it only could happen if Lee Oswald came to the lunchroom from the hallway, and this would imply that Lee has come not from the sixth floor (and via the door from the platform on the north side of the floor) but from the first floor (via the stairs in the front of the building). The timeline to examine is not the one assuming Lee coming from from the sixth floor to the second floor lunchroom but rather from the Domino room in the first floor to the steps in the doorway and then via the front stairs to the second floor lunchroom. The advantage of the computer analysis is that it allows for testing multiple alterative scenarios, including the first-to-second floor scenario.

Interestingly, the first-to-second floor scenario has been briefly discussed by Bill Kelly and Sean Murphy early on in the thread "Oswald leaving the TSBD?" in 2013, however, it has not been elaborated since.

There is one more problem with the second-floor lunchroom encounter as presented by the Warren Commission, as if proving Lee's decsending from the sixth floor. It took about 5-6 seconds to walk the distance from the exit of the stairwell leading to the second floor platform (from the third floor) and the door leading to the vestibule. As Roy Truly was several steps ahead of Baker, he would have to either see Lee Oswald entering the door to the vestibule or see him manipulating the door. As both men entered the stairwell on the first floor, they would have to hear Lee's steps as Lee would be descending the steps one floor above them. Both men would have to hear Lee Oswald's steps when he was walked down the stairs because the steps produced loud noises that could be heard on floors above and below. However, neither Truly nor Baker mentioned hearing any noises coming from the stairwell above while they started their ascend.

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Andrej S--I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one. Interesting discussion. But you have concluded that Connally was struck by a separate bullet? If so, what is your take o the timing between shots? 

Ben:

I will prepare some images related to Connaly's injury behaviour later on (too much marking at the moment...). I think Connally was hit twice. Once around the time when Kennedy was shot (manifested in Kennedy lifting his hand toward his neck) and than again, into his wrist, around frame 328. This latter event is described in the latest Josiah Thompson's book Last Second in Dallas.

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

You are indicating that Connally, the silver-haired man, has already been shot through the chest, completely demolishing a rib? But after being shot, Connally has turned around in his chair to check on JFK? 

Yes, the rotation of Connally's body to his right is a part of the process of falling down toward his wife after being shot. The frame 276 does not show what Connally had described as trying to view Kennedy by turning to his right. Connally told he has not been able to see Kennedy after turning to his right; he would be able to see him in frame 276 though. At least, this is what I read in Z-film.

Ben:

my visual analysis of Z-film tells me that John Connally showed signs of distress possibly from being shot around frames 239-241. While I agree that the President was hit earlier than Connally, it may be that the shot that had hit Connally came before frame 284. Frame 284 shows him turned toward the President, however, this was not how he described the shot. He was in the process of turning to his left (i.e., facing the front of car) when he registered being shot.

Of course, I may be wrong as my is just an observation from Z-frames.

11 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Great points. 

Chris: is there any link to Part 1 to the The South Knoll Gunman? I only found a link to Part 2. I would be grateful for posting the link to Part 1, if possible. Thank you.

Do I miss something? The switched-on microphone was supposed to be on Officer McClain's motorbike, not Hargis's motorbike.

Well, I read this lengthy article and it turned out that the crictics cannot account for "I'll check it" being synchronous in both channels (as per James Barger's novel analysis, Appendix A). Ramsey panel in their report attempted to suppress this event. The digital analyses under the auspices of Ramsey panel used a too along time window to compute the pattern cross-correlation (PCC) and failed to detect it. Now, Richard Mullen in Appendix B accomplished it by using an appropriately short window and here the PCC shoots high when "I'll check it" pops up. Mr. Nalli wanted to weaken this finding by claiming the background noise was higher for "Check" than for "Hold" event, however, the level of noise will always be larger (or signal-to-noise ratio smaller) if the spectral window is reduced because less averaging is used to estimate the power spectra. 

As "I'll check it" event cannot be refuted (and it excludes "Hold" as being a genuine cross-talk), the critics aim on every possible aspect of Thompson's work. Their own acoustic analyses refrain to what they could hear with their own ears in the recordings, like that "I'll check it" is actually a completely different statement. Sure, Sgt. Bowles who was tasked with the trancripts of original audio recordings clealy heard "I'll check it" and assigned an ID of "4" (Deputy Fisher) just by mishearing it. The Ramsey panel report reproduced Bowles's transcription by replacing "4" with "?" and added "(discounted by sound spectrogram)" (the wrong spectrogram though,  the one with a long spectral window which could not detect this short phrase"). That says it all. 

13 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

For reference, Wayne January's experiences (based on Matthew's original work with January and my follow on research on the aircraft once we had the tail number) is discussed in more detail in SWHT 2010 if you have that.

Larry:

many thanks for reminding me your 2010 book. Of course, I read it, but it was some three years ago and I could not remember that January's stody was also mentioned in your previous JFKA book. I will consult it immediately.

It is a sheer pleasure to read your and other researchers' posts in this thread that reveal both deep research and in-person investigations. Tipping Point is on myreading list. Will a Kindle version of your book be also available and is it reasonable to wait for it?

Would you know or be able to guess who was the woman that came to negotiate with Wayne January on Wednesday, November 20? There were not many women associated with the case as potential co-conspirators and her identity could tell a lot about who were Lee's handlers in Dallas during this very sentitive period of the assassination plot.

33 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

   I read this account in James Douglass's book JFK and the Unspeakable.

Thanks for reminding me, James Douglas had indeed described Wayne January's story in his book. Your memory serves you well.

The possibility of two parallel plots, one to send Oswald to Cuba in the immediate aftermath of assassination and one to kill the President looks very logical and coherent to me. Lee Oswald played his spy games, he was led to believe he was in a plot against Castro, and he did not know anything about the other plot. This explains why he was genuinely surprised of being arreigned for killing the President when paraded in front of newsmen in Dallas Police headquarters.

There is one more interesting aspect to the other plot. Lee Oswald likely issued a clue during 12 hours of his interrogation of him being associated with one or more intelligence agencies - those that handled him during the summer. This may have been the reason for not having taken any notes, or stenographic or audio recordings during the interrogations. If Captain Fritz gave a call to Langley to check up on Lee Oswlad, he would hear a clear denial but also a strict order not to take any records during the interrogations.