Pamela Brown

Thanks, Jack. That confirms they did at least one test they didn't put into the show. The clip is no longer available; no surprise. Based on this unauthorized clip that briefly appeared at youtube we can confirm that there were at least four tests done using four heads. The test that was left out showed very little damage to the head, not inconsistent with that shown in the x-rays and photographs. It also only makes sense that they would have done pre-tests of some sort, perhaps using watermelons, or something else inexpensive (the heads were supposedly 50K apiece). That would have given them additional information regarding the general effect of shots from the different positions using different types of firearms. Therefore, whatever was put into the final program would have been only what they wanted the viewers to see, not all the information they had. Here is a bit of the 4th shot test from the DC News site: http://dsc.discovery.com/video/player.html...leId=2932239001

Can you think of a better way to destroy the CT movement than to capture the confidence of a number of the more naive in it and then use that trust to fit an agenda? Whom do you think fed Discovery Communications the hype for Target Car? Can you perceive that this show was supposed to have been aimed at the heart of the CT community? Have you read Hegel? If you want to put forth an agenda, you have to control not only the sheeple but the dissenters.

Raymond Carroll FALSE: There are many who can attest that the time and effort Gary takes to help other researchers is way above and beyond what museum curators typically do. Schmoozing with the CTs and making them feel special may well be part of his job description. They are the 'safe' CT's (the ones who don't make waves). FALSE: Gary does not "lurk", although he could easily do so. He logs in, so that everyone can see he is reading the forum. He could just as easily read the forum without logging in, and no one know he was there. He could be a "lurker" but he has chosen not to be. PMB: As long as he does not post on his own he is lurking. RC: Since I have posted on Gary's behalf, I will take that as a compliment. PMB: Why is it even acceptable to have one member (which you remind us that Gary is) posting for another member? Are some members better than others? That way they don't have to stoop down into the mud and get themselves dirty with honest debate? PMB: who misunderstands issues and evidence about the assassination and seems to have a bullying attitude, where he tries to pressure those who don't agree with him. RC: Exactly who are you referring to? Name someone who has posted on Gary's behalf and who exhibits a bullying attitude (naming Bill Miller does not count). The reference is to Gary Mack. It comes from personal experience. He attempted to bully me regarding my position on a witness. I didn't appreciate it I'm entitled.

It seems Gary Mack has a public persona which can be very nice and helpful -- and, indeed, that is his job as curator of 6FM. But there is also the off-hours Gary who lurkes at the newsgroups such as this one and aaj and has other people post for him, as though that gives his posts more authority, and who misunderstands issues and evidence about the assassination and seems to have a bullying attitude, where he tries to pressure those who don't agree with him.

The courts have already determined that Guinn's NAA bullet matching theory is junk science. Bullet lead is not like human DNA, so it is not possible to say what caliber of bullet gave rise to the fragments found in JFK's head or Connally's body. The theory that 399 and the limo fragments were planted is a theory that has come back to life with the debunking of NAA. The Discovery people are entitled to do any experiments it pleases them to do, but they would have impressed a lot more people if they had used a little bit of logic and included a pistol shot from the knoll instead of a rifle shot. A rifle is much more high-powered than a pistol, so since this is still a free country (until the Socialists take over in January) I feel entitled to point out how naive the Dicovery Channel people are. It is my impression that the tests were staged to give them the results that they wanted. The high-powered rifle from the GK is a dead giveaway to that. Nobody ever said that LHO fired the fatal headshot from the GK. That, in Gary Mack's language, is what that test proved conclusively. The use of wind in the SN test was another artifice. It was designed to give them as big a spatter range as possible, to try to emulate Z313. The dummy heads were not cheap, so they didn't have much room for repeats. However, we still have to wonder if there were additional tests done which they are not discussing because they didn't get the results they were looking for. Ironically, Bill Kelly, who seems more concerned about the number of threads initiated on this show than the implications of the tests they ran, might do well to assess these tests in terms of the action he wants to pursue against the govt. If all of the accompanying documentation were made available regarding these tests, there could be sufficient impetus gained to move that objective forward, based on the damage inflicted on the dummy head by the M/C from both the GK and the SN positions, not to mention the fact that the SN test challenges the existing drawings, diagrams and x-rays used by the WC and HSCA to represent JFK's head. Is this the thread on the show or the press release? There are no implications on the tests they ran, and there is a lot more material available to move the objective foreward than these show and tell games. There's real forensic evidence that will be used in court, not BS like this. I'd like to know how much this production cost and who the producer was who paid for it? If there is a serious attempt at forensic analysis of the "target car" then the results should be capable of being introduced into court. Laws were broken when the car and the victim's body were removed from Texas without forensic study and autopsy. Blood splatter analysis should be used, but also scalp and bullet fragment splatters must be followed. How did the bullet fragments get to where they were - under the front window trim, in the back seat, hitting the curb by Tague (if it wasn't a full missed bullet)? And how did a piece of JFK's head fly onto the "target car" trunk as retreived by Jackie O, and how did a huge piece of JFK's skull fly 30 feet behind and to the left to the curb? And then there's the evaluation of the blood splatter on the motorcycle windshield and face of the motorcycle escort to the left rear of the "target car." And if these tests conclusively demonstrate that the shots came from the Sixth Floor window of the TSBD, then how do they put Oswald behind the trigger? And if Oswald is the shooter, then there is no question there was a conspiracy because Oswald fits the profile of an operational pawn who wasn't crazy, but part of a covert network. I would like to see a computerized test developed of a moving target the size of JFK as seen from the perspective of the shooter in the Sixth Floor Sniper's Nest, as seen from the TSBD window. The head being the bull's eye and the back being a hit, and eleminating everything else including the car and the other passengers from the target, and just move the head and shoulders along as it would be seen by the sniper, both in real vision and with scope. Then we will have an idea of the skill necessary to do the shot(s). How about a video game to see who can duplicate the Sixth Floor Sniper? BK This was the thread on the press release. My hope was that we could track this offering of the ongoing coverup here on the internet, and on tv, through the events of the anniversary, where undoubtedly Gary Mack will be popping up on various news programs with his theory about the tests. Curious to see just who else (beside NBC/MSNBC) will blindly try to help him hype the tests. The program was developed by Creative Differences in LA; Robert Erickson, who did the other programs in this JFK group, was the on-site producer. There was another producer in LA; Erik, I think. The budget was quite sizeable -- the heads cost about $50K each, and so on. Having the team traveled to Dearborn, MI, Dallas, Adelaide too I believe, and ended up doing the test outside of LA. The show was done per the specs of the Discovery Channel, who approved their budget as well as the development of the show. It is only natural that DC wanted something new and exciting in the show. The test initially seemed like a great idea, with the possibility of generating new information. At the same time, it was risky, because those involved were staring into the abyss that is the myth of the WCR. Many times they must have butted up against the differences between, say, HSCA and WC information, not to mention the Z-film and everything else. I believe they stood on the edge of accomplishing something meaningful; but then capitulated, rather than charging ahead fearlessly. It is my impression that this happened after Gary Mack became closely involved. The focus of the test seemed to change from something somewhat objective to something to devastate the CT's. I do believe there is valuable information in the tests; just not what anyone anticipated. Claiming they had re-done the WCR may have been the intent from the start, and I may have just been too naive to realize it. I agree that the show focused on only the blood spatter rather than all of the evidence. A valid question might be "how did they manage to claim they duplicated the spatter in Z313 when they failed to duplicate the positioning in Z312? But I imagine that would go right over their heads. Another factor may be the Harper fragment, which they seemed to feature. That was found the following day, so how can anyone say for sure where it landed? Agreed, nothing is said about conspiracy in this show; nothing is demonstrated. I find Gary Mack's claims on that level to be illogical. The tests are about the effect of an M/C from different positions. Based on what the show discussed, anyone could have pulled the trigger. (Of course, nobody saw LHO with the M/C after his return to Dallas. And no test was done on the M/C to prove it had ever been fired.) That Gary is pushing the 'no conspiracy' idea causes us to ask if he thinks everyone is just supposed to blindly follow the lead of a false piper, without logic or reason?

The courts have already determined that Guinn's NAA bullet matching theory is junk science. Bullet lead is not like human DNA, so it is not possible to say what caliber of bullet gave rise to the fragments found in JFK's head or Connally's body. The theory that 399 and the limo fragments were planted is a theory that has come back to life with the debunking of NAA. The Discovery people are entitled to do any experiments it pleases them to do, but they would have impressed a lot more people if they had used a little bit of logic and included a pistol shot from the knoll instead of a rifle shot. A rifle is much more high-powered than a pistol, so since this is still a free country (until the Socialists take over in January) I feel entitled to point out how naive the Dicovery Channel people are. It is my impression that the tests were staged to give them the results that they wanted. The high-powered rifle from the GK is a dead giveaway to that. Nobody ever said that LHO fired the fatal headshot from the GK. That, in Gary Mack's language, is what that test proved conclusively. The use of wind in the SN test was another artifice. It was designed to give them as big a spatter range as possible, to try to emulate Z313. The dummy heads were not cheap, so they didn't have much room for repeats. However, we still have to wonder if there were additional tests done which they are not discussing because they didn't get the results they were looking for. Ironically, Bill Kelly, who seems more concerned about the number of threads initiated on this show than the implications of the tests they ran, might do well to assess these tests in terms of the action he wants to pursue against the govt. If all of the accompanying documentation were made available regarding these tests, there could be sufficient impetus gained to move that objective forward, based on the damage inflicted on the dummy head by the M/C from both the GK and the SN positions, not to mention the fact that the SN test challenges the existing drawings, diagrams and x-rays used by the WC and HSCA to represent JFK's head.

I would be interested in further commentary in this area. This is indeed the most interesting area of the show -- we get to see the damage an M/C does to the head. Perhaps Gary Mack can get the DC to post a clip of the SN shot at youtube, where they do have some other bits from the show: In fact, it is surprising it is not out there already, as the GK test is. The M/C did far more damage to the dummy head than that shown in any existing documentation of JFK's head. The effect was analogous to cutting the top off of a soft-boiled egg. This then opens the door to the question of whether or not an M/C was even used to fire the Z313 headshot.

Wishful thinking by Gary and the Discovery team, I'm afraid. The test showed that a rifle shot from the TSBD COULD have created the blood spatter seen on the ZFilm, but the wound created by this rifle shot does not resemble JFK's wound. Although the Discovery test tries to dodge the whole issue of JFK's dramatic back/left movement seen in the Z film, the test is consistent with the army tests that DISPROVED the Jet Effect theory. The Discovery test confirms that a bullet from behind will drive the victim's head forward, away from the shooter, and therefore is evidence that the fatal shot did NOT come from the TSBD. JFK's left/backward movement indicates the fatal shot came from the knoll, and the Discovery test indicates that the knoll shot was NOT fired from a high-powered rifle. No surprise there, since Hatman was well within pistol range. Thank you, Gary. Nice work. The team completely sidestepped the issue of the Z313 head movement by claiming that the neck of the model was rigid or words to that effect. Fair enough. But based on that fact alone, how could anyone possibly claim that any results were anything other than a test, a well-intended attempt? The scenario even at this point is quite different from that of the actual events. This should have been acknowledged in the program and, most of all, in the publicity, which misrepresented the test as something more.

The tests proved nothing 'conclusively' except to those unaware of the fallacy of false alternatives. In addition, from the manner of bullying going on about the press release and the secrecy of this test, it is evident that the test is not supposed to be open to scrutiny. That is also a very weak position. Here are only a smidgen of the numerous issues: The tests were staged to give a desired effect -- the 'wind' was deliberately designed to encourage splatter. The claim was that a 25 mph wind was needed to simulate the actual wind plus movement of the car is false. The car was not going 10 mps at Z313, it had slowed nearly to a stop. As far as the GK shot is concerned, what was proven is that a high-powered rifle did not fire the fatal headshot from that position. But then, whoever said it did? The Z312 position was misrepresented in the re-enactment. There is simply no excuse for that. Had Jackie and JFK been in the Z312 position and the gun a handgun or one with low power, the result would have been different. Of course, Jackie was nearly killed by the fatal bullet. That's why she climbed out the back of the car.

DC has posted some clips on youtube. Ironically, they have one of the GK test, but not of the SN test in which the sniper blows off the top of the dummy's head. Gee...wonder why not? :-0 You can leave comments.

Some more links to articles based on the press release and MSNBC article. You can leave comments: http://www.prisonplanet.com/feddiscovery-c...l#comment-85109 http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/10/discove...de_the_targ.php

The limo used was one that Kevin MacDonald had built, using specs given to him by Willard Hess. It was used in JFK and other movies. It is now owned by someone else. It is exquisite. I spent most of the ten days of the Minnesota State Fair at the exhibit where it was the star of JFK REMEMBERED. It is also the star of this DC show. The footage of it is wonderful. The limo was shipped to Dallas for a week last summer when the show footage was taped. There was a lot of footage they ended up not using in order to give more time to GM and this test. They used the replica to follow the path of the actual limo that day, from Love Field, to DP, the PH (they filmed at a spot that resembled it in 1963) then also the WHG. However, the rear seat of the replica is not the same as the original -- the cushions are softer, as it doesn't have the hydraulic lift mechanisms in it. JFK would have sunk down lower in it than in the actual. There are other relatively minor differences, such as the shape of the jumpseats. Is this the same limo that was owned for a while by Paul Krute? I have photos of the Krute limo. I thought that it was used by Stone. Krute used it to give tours. One November 22 I was a passenger in it and we drove down Elm Street at exactly 12:30 during the researcher gathering on the knoll. Jack No, Jack, this is not Krute's limo. I spent an afternoon with Paul Krute and his car one year when we were in Dallas. While it looked good on the street, it was a poor imitation of SS-100-X close up and sitting in it. The center partition was all wrong, for one thing. Paul acknowledged that, and then told me a whole host of other things that were wrong with it. But, in its day, when it came rolling down Elm St. at 12:30 on 11.22, slammed on its brakes in front of the pergola and then gunned the engine, with actors portraying the historical characters, it was breathtaking. I don't know what happened to Paul's limo. I hope it was not destroyed. This limo was built with specs given only to Kevin MacDonald, who was a protege of Willard Hess. It is exactly the same in many respects. It is 1,000 lbs lighter, because it does not have the rear seat hydraulic mechanisms installed, nor does it have the dual air conditioner and heavy heater of the original. The tires are 16" though; which is also appropriate, as tires on 100X were changed from 15" to 16". They are modern tires, however, perhaps giving rise to differences in flexion and reaction. The rear seat of the replica in the DC program is softer than that of the original. The metal grab handles in front of where the Connallys sat are different. The jump seats have square corners and are not exact. The owner, Nick C., is planning on having the jump seats redone at some time in the future.

Review of JFKTTC in VARIETY. Viewers can add comments. http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117939030...yid=32&cs=1

The limo used was one that Kevin MacDonald had built, using specs given to him by Willard Hess. It was used in JFK and other movies. It is now owned by someone else. It is exquisite. I spent most of the ten days of the Minnesota State Fair at the exhibit where it was the star of JFK REMEMBERED. It is also the star of this DC show. The footage of it is wonderful. The limo was shipped to Dallas for a week last summer when the show footage was taped. There was a lot of footage they ended up not using in order to give more time to GM and this test. They used the replica to follow the path of the actual limo that day, from Love Field, to DP, the PH (they filmed at a spot that resembled it in 1963) then also the WHG. However, the rear seat of the replica is not the same as the original -- the cushions are softer, as it doesn't have the hydraulic lift mechanisms in it. JFK would have sunk down lower in it than in the actual. There are other relatively minor differences, such as the shape of the jumpseats.

....Good Day Pat.... Starting in June 2008, i was asked for my help with the precise DP geographical height above sea level measurements for key landmark locations and buildings locations, and that was it. (i was never asked about President KENNEDY's circa Z-312-313 head facing direction, which was obviously his facing left of limo-forward for when his head exploded). As I understand the program, now (not explained to me at the time**), these precise geographical measurements were for the program's segment that was filmed in California for the stagers recreating the horizontal, vertical, and lateral angles for the test shots that, apparently, the stagers chose to only be recreated, HSCA-like, from only the "hat man" GK fence location, and the warrenatti apologists, supposed, "lone nut" "snipers lair." Since the stagers were in DP, i truly hope that they also filmed (and show us !) and test-fired, or, at least rifle scope-viewed from additional long known suspected assassins locations.... ....from the TSBD 6th floor second most farthest WEST open window (where ARNOLD ROWLAND watched a second rifle armed man AND quickly reported this armed assassin to ROGER CRAIG within minutes of the attack) ....from the Dal-Tex west face roof line (i stood there in 1988, and can assure everyone that in a military operation mindset, MILOP, there is an exact spot on the Dal-Tex west face roof line from which the entire kill zone is visible AND every bullet(s) triggered from the Dal-Tex roof line would have been passing within mere feet of the warrenatti apologists, supposed, "lone nut" "snipers lair" window, very effectively nearly exactly duplicating its bullet angles for the, inevitable, planned autopsy to come on 11-22-63) ....from the Dal-Tex south face third floor open window in which something is seen in TOWNER ....from the Dal-Tex west face high floor ....from the Dal-Tex west face second floor (although i am of the belief that an assassin, whether professionally experienced or less experienced would never stick his body nor weapon into the view of any witnesses nor cameras) ....and from the County Records Building roof line at its east face northwest corner. (of course, from all of these locations, to be totally 100% accurate the running board standing SS agents and their head tops about 7' above Elm Street fairly close behind the president would also have to be included) Going by what certainly is a solid methodology that if a theorized impossible angle can eliminate a theorized suspected assassin location, it also helps us narrow down to the only possible locations. (of course that all directly ties into if the medical evidence that we currently know of is valid, which, after decades of study is not, imho, of a 100% certainty) When the program airs, you are assured, that from the filmed background DP landmarks, I will be photogramatically triangulating the exact angles and heights above the ground location that each of the rifle scope views were chosen to be actually filmed from by the stagers. Had i known that actual bullets were being fired from precise recreated vertical, horizontal, and lateral angles there are also several important considerations that i would have strongly recommended to the stagers that appears not to have been thought of.... One of which would have been for the dummy's head.... I definitely would have simply painted the scalp and skull in differing colors to indicate and differentiate the occipital, parietal, and frontal sections for us to clearly see, precisely, where these sections spattered to and landed after bullet impact. If the dummy's gelatinous, jello-like, brain could have been sectioned into the same corresponding o-p-f different colors i would have done that, also.... Another thing for everyone to keep in mind.... with regard to the GK "hat man" assassin that is, imho, seen 15.75' west of the picket fence corner in the MOORMAN #5 polaroid, but he was not seen in films nor photos including that location captured just seconds later.... The HSCA determined that the "hat man" assasin did trigger a shot (circa Z-290, which may explain the "last 2 shots were very closely bunched together" that a majority of the witnesses have stated they distinctly remember hearing), but he missed hitting President KENNEDY, he missed hitting anyone else, and the "hat man" assassin missed hitting the limo.... Interestingly, buried deep into close attack witness JEAN HILL’s warrenatti-testimony http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol6/page205.php is discussion of, at least, one missed shot, and that a Secret Service “agent” stated to her 11-22-63 just minutes after the attack that other Secret Service “agents” already stationed and watching from a Dealey Plaza court house observed a missed shot striking very near her and kicking up debris (there were “officially“ no “agents,“ of any type, in the official record as ever being stationed in any Dealey Plaza court house, nor were there any other Secret Service “agents” stationed anywhere else near nor within Dealey Plaza, either before or during the attack) From the previews i have seen and from being directed to read the Australian company website http://www.tnesystems.com , since the dummy was staged with a flexible spine-neck mechanism, I am most looking forward to seeing if under bullet impact if the dummy's head does, or does not, move slightly forward, then, the head and upper torso moves far, quickly, back and to the left.... ** I have also since been told that the limousine used for the the 2008 "Discovery Channel" DP recreated rifle scope views was the same limousine used in STONE's, "JFK". Best Regards in Research, Don Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly Discovery: ROSEMARY WILLIS's Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Headsnap: West, Ultrafast, & Directly Towards the "Grassy Knoll" http://ftp.hometown.aol.com/droberdeau/JFK...NOUNCEMENT.html Dealey Plaza Professionally-surveyed Map Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise locations, Witnesses, Photographers, Evidence, Suspected bullet trajectories, Important information & Considerations http://ftp.hometown.aol.com/droberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg President Kennedy "Men of Courage" Speech, & JFK Assassination Research & Discoveries, Don Roberdeau, 1975 to Present http://ftp.hometown.aol.com/droberdeau/ T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore National Terror Alert for the United States: "Drehm seemed to think the shots came from in FRONT OF or BESIDE the president." (my EMPHASIS) CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza attack witness, quoted only minutes after the attack, and while he was still standing within Dealey Plaza (11-22-63 "Dallas Times Herald," appeared only in the fifth & final daily edition, which mis-spelled his name) "I happened to be about fifteen feet away from the president when the FIRST SHOT HIT HIM. There is some discussion now as to whether there was one or two shots that hit him, but the first shot rang out, and, I was positive when I saw the look on his face, and saw him grab his chest, and saw the reaction of his wife that he had been shot, and at that time, which was probably a few seconds later --- the second shot rang out --- and he just, absolutely, went down into the seat of the car. There was a third shot that 'went,' and by that time i had grabbed my little five-year-old boy who was with me and ran away from scene of the thing, but, the only thing that I did witness --- and something I'm sorry I did witness, very honestly --- was that, the look on his face when that shot hit, and the look again on him and his wife's face when the shots started to ring out and it was, very obviously, that he was hit. The first two shots that were heard, and ---- the FIRST ONE HIT the president --- there was no doubt, whatsoever, because his face winced, and he grabbed at himself, and he slumped down. I do believe, without any doubt, that the second one hit him because he had an immediate reaction with that second shot. I do know there was a third shot but as I said by that time I had grabbed my boy and started to go." (my EMPHASIS) CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza attack witness, quoted only minutes after the attack in a report he gave over the radio, 11-22-63) "Another eyewitness, Charles Brehm, said he was 15 feet away from the President when he was shot. 'He was waving, then the FIRST shot hit him and that awful look crossed his face.' " (my EMPHASIS) CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza attack witness (quoted to the "Associated Press," 11-22-63) The head does not move; in fact they say it can't. In addition, it was not placed at the correct angle, nor was there a moving vehicle. All of these things detract from any viability they might want to claim. But the sniper did blow the top of the head off, thus invalidating the autopsy x-rays and photographs. I guess we can appreciate that.

[quote name='Wade Rhodes' date='Nov 17 2008, 08:46 AM' post='158307'] Hi everyone, I have 2 questions, when they did the test shot from the grassy knoll behind the fence - did they say they would use a hollow point exploding bullet? This would explain the test dummy head to 'explode'. Also, why didn't they test a Remington xp-500 fireball as James Files claimed he used. I don't think they said they did. They used a high-powered rifle, so of course, the entire head exploded. Nobody knows what kind of gun it was that fired the fatal shot from the GK. The heads were so expensive they *couldn't * have done the test a second time, it would seem. The positions of JFK and Jackie in their reenactment were far from Z312 also. Their claim that Jackie would have been killed is nonsense. She was nearly killed though; and that's why she climbed out the back of the car.

The first thread was for the press release and blurbs being spawned on the internet following the NBC/MSNBC preview and news article. This one is for the program itself.

Donner and I have just finished watching this new program. Some of the footage of the replica limo are wonderful, and the footage of the rebuilt limo at Dearborn (I was standing near the cameraman when they were taken) are exquisite. But the main premise of the show is flawed, and even though I have been thoroughly dismayed by the outrageous claims the press release made, I had hopes that it would at least be consistent and accurate. Most glaring for me, especially since I went over each of the photographs I gave to the producer, Robert E., was that they claimed that the color photographs of the limo interior were taken by the SS the night of the assassination. That is untrue. The black-and-white photos of the limo interior were taken by the FBI during their forensic exam at 1 a.m. 11.23.63. The SS photos were not taken until late the following afternoon, long after the FBI had taken the car apart for its exams. Another glaring error is that they claimed they were duplicating Z312 in the re-enactment shots, but that was not the case; the positions of both JFK and Jackie were quite different. This is something that should have been quickly caught. I am even more puzzled now than before at the fantastic claims made in the press release. The TSBD shot takes off the top of JFK's head -- did it not occur to anyone that this would invalidate the autopsy photos and x-rays?

Discovery Channel JFK Show -- What about it will be 'new'? News Type: Event — Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:43 PM CST jfk, limo, pamela-mcelwain-brown, target-car, discovery, Pamela McElwain-Brown In the press release and internet blurbs for this new show JFK: the Target Car there are repeated references to their claiming to 'conclusively' show that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. Gary Mack has repeatedly pointed to seeing something 'new' on the show -- something that hasn't been 'seen' before. What could this possibly be, they want us to ask? Frankly, to set such a high bar for a tv show is just asking for trouble. Why would they even consider doing such a thing? I have one possibility -- they will claim (whether or not it is actually demonstrated) that they have 're-created' the assassination, from the 6th Floor of the TSBD of course, with a M/C rifle, such as that found on the floor later that day, shooting three shots in under 6.2 seconds and resulting in the wounds ostensibly attributed to both Kennedy and Connally. And of course, they would have to do this using two different simulated figures, plus a moving target, one that would be at different speeds at different times during the shooting, as we know from the Zapruder film that the limo slowed down after the neck shot. So, in effect, we will be watching the assassination happen. They could intersperse scenes from the TSBD, then the rifle range where the test was done, add some Zapruder frames, and make it look like a re-do of the movie JFK, but from the position of a 'lone-nut' assassin. Of course, they have other hoops to go through. Nobody saw Lee Oswald with this gun after his return to Dallas. There is no proof the M/C was ever fired. Not to mention discrepancies between information coming from the Warren Commission Report, the HSCA, the map of Dealey Plaza from a JFK researcher they appear to have incorporated, much less the Zapruder film. Then there is the problem of the evidence -- the limousine was pretty much sanitized by the Secret Service long before the FBI was allowed to do their forensic exam twelve hours after the assassination. The autopsy was horribly bungled, and nobody knows for sure what JFK's wounds were and where they were. But the DC people act as though they don't even know there are any hoops. They seem to live in a world of sound bites and film clips, trying to create sensational bits of time in a program. If they don't accomplish this feat in the show, or something equally spectacular, why even bother with the hype?

Link to Newsvine article at my column: http://pamelam1.newsvine.com/_news/2008/11...-old-propaganda

Indeed. Here we go again. This reference is to "JFK: the Target Car" which I was involved in developing when it was just a 'test' being performed, not, magically, an 'investigation' 'commissioned' by the Discovery Channel. I guess we should then call it the "Mack Commission". The news preview for the show was on NBC on Thursday; this news article is on MSNBC. It has also been spawned to a number of internet news-type sites. We can watch the ongoing coverup at work by observing the process that is taking place with this lame old propaganda.

The new Discovery Channel show, which uses some of Don Robidaux's data, posits that there is no place to make a clear shot from the Grassy Knoll. How does James Files say he managed to do this?

Well, when you have Gary Mack of the 6th FM(govt) looking over your shoulder, you might be surprised how quickly things can become 'impossible'.

I just watched the preview shown on NBC (taped from Thursday). The shots of the replica limo are great, but the logic is not. They are taking a WC stance, eg "Did LHO act alone?" which in itself falls prey to the fallacy of false alternatives. A more objective assumption might be "what happened?" When I was involved in the show I did what I could to offer them advice outside of the narrow area of research in which they tried to dump me, talking with the producer Robert Erickson about issues of logic. I did the best I could to discuss sticking to one scenario or another for a test (that was part of the failure of their "SBT" test in BTMB). Everything seemed to fall on deaf ears. By the preview it looks as though they only examined a few possible locations for shots. They then may try to claim that they have exhausted the possibilities. That again is false logic. So, they are taking a very narrow stance and trying to re-prove the WCR. Of course, now they have Gary Mack as a living version of Earl Warren, who can then counsel all the innocent newbies from his post at the TSBD/6th FM. Not since Posner has there been such hubris. Or is it just job security in these difficult times? :-0