David Boylan

I've been interested in the assassination as history since the mid 1970's. My original field of research was the far-right and the Kennedy assassination. See:

Jack, I was under the assumption that Delbert Ray firebombed Penn's paper. Ray was an associate of Gen. Edwin Walker, ranch owner, and suspected member of the Minutemen. Dave

Steve, It was Cuban currency. (Pesos) From the November 1, 1965 issue of On Target, published monthly by the Minutemen (Robert DePugh): "...Now the United States government has sentenced president Kohly to one year in the federal penitentiary for trying to liberate his own country. [some stuff about the Kennedy administration having Kohly arrested because further invasions by exiles were prohibited] For the above reasons he consulted with an Annapolis Attorney named Walter Schultz as to the legality of printing Cuban Pesos to be used by his underground in Cuba to purchase arms and also to be used in wrecking Fidel Castro's shaky economy. The Attorney was most enthusiastic about the plan. Two days later he brought a federal agent to President Kohly's home in Arlington, Virginia and introduced the federal agnet as "my printer, who will make the Cuban pesos for you." Sr. Kohly was encouraged by both his lawyer and the plates from which the "printer" would make the bills. At their instigation President Kohly had one Robert Morrow of Baltimore make the plates from which Cuban pesos could have been printed." The Free Cuba News (May 11, 1963. Published by the Citizens Committee to Free Cuba) has a sample Cuban peso with the words in Spanish: "VALUELESS FOR FOOD VALUELESS FOR CLOTHING BECAUSE COMMUNISM IS HUNGER MISERY AND DESTRUCTION THIS IS THE WORK OF THE GREAT TRAITOR" Circulating in Cuba, in unknown quantieis, the "anti-Castro peso presents holders with a dilemma. If they try to cash it at the bank, they risk being accused of collaborating with the resistance. If they attempt to pass it on, the *do* collaborate. If they hide it or destroy it, they take the loss. Dave

John/Antti, Some of that is covered here: http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...mming_0001a.htm For a take on Martia Lorenz's caravan tale, see Gaeton Fonzi's The Last Investgation. I noticed in later variations of the caravan participants, she dropped Gerry Hemming as a member. Dave

James, Also Reinaldo Pico. He was working for Bernard Barker in the summer of 1963. I believe that Pico travelled with Paulino Sierra to visit Artime's Latin America bases. I wonder in what capacity Pico was acting? Dave

I'd also recommend Secret Agenda by Jim Hougan. He pioneered much of the work that Silent Coup was based. Dave

greg, I'm sure you remeber this Washington Post article. Oswald Picketed Adlai Rally in Dallas, Witnesses Say By Ronnie Dugger DALLAS, Dec.8 -- Curious ironies continue to multiply in the wake of the President's assassination here Nov. 22. It now appears that Lee Harvey Oswald, the accused assassin, attended not only a rally addressed by Gen. Edwin Walker Oct. 23, but also one addressed by United Nations Ambassador Adlai Stevenson Oct. 24. A Dallas woman who sat near Oswald at an Oct. 25 meeting of the Dallas Chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union says that when the Stevenson meeting of the night before was being discussed, Oswald nodded his head and said, "I was there." Oswald said this in an aside to Michael Paine, who had brought him to the meeting, the woman clearly recalled. Oswald's wife and children lived with Paine's estranged wife in Irving, a Dallas suburb. Larrie Schmidt, Dallas insurance salesman was also at the Stevenson meeting, leading a group of pickets against Stevenson. Yesterday Bernard Weissman, who placed an anti-Kennedy advertisement in the Dallas News on the morning of the assassination, told a newsman in Mt. Vernon, N.Y., that Schmidt telephoned him after the meeting at which Stevenson was spat upon, and asked Weissman to come to Dallas to help out in the aftermath. Schmidt acknowledges that, in advance of the Stevenson speech, he telephoned "a friend of mine in a local university" and asked if he could help find people to demonstrate against the United Nations. The friend arrived with 14 young pickets, and a "peaceful picketing" was organized, Schmidt said. The persons who spat on Stevenson and struck him with a picket sign had nothing to do with his well-dressed and orderly group, Schmidt said today. "We deplore and certainly do not condone the actions of those people," Schmidt says. At the A.C.L.U. meeting on Oct. 25, Oswald rose during the open discussion and remarked that he had attended the Walker speech two nights before and had observed anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic symptoms there. A man who attended the A.C.L.U. meeting and who sat beside Oswald, has been located and corroborates other recollections about Oswald's remarks there. This source confirms that Oswald said in the aside that he had attended the Stevenson rally. A Dallas businesswoman, who refused to be identified, said she believes she saw Oswald picketing at the scene of the Stevenson speech. "He was the only one who did a military type turn. This called my attention to him," she said. She believed Oswald's group picketed and left before the disturbance broke out against Stevenson. A second Dallas woman, a housewife, said: "I believe he was there, and he was carrying a picket sign in the lobby." Neither the businesswoman nor the housewife remembered what kinds of signs were carried by the group led by the man they now believe was Oswald. The "local university" was most likely the University of Dallas. Robert Morris was president. Morris was a noted Bircher, lawyer to Walker, and source to Loran Hall. Dave

greg, I'm sure you remeber this Washington Post article. Oswald Picketed Adlai Rally in Dallas, Witnesses Say By Ronnie Dugger DALLAS, Dec.8 -- Curious ironies continue to multiply in the wake of the President's assassination here Nov. 22. It now appears that Lee Harvey Oswald, the accused assassin, attended not only a rally addressed by Gen. Edwin Walker Oct. 23, but also one addressed by United Nations Ambassador Adlai Stevenson Oct. 24. A Dallas woman who sat near Oswald at an Oct. 25 meeting of the Dallas Chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union says that when the Stevenson meeting of the night before was being discussed, Oswald nodded his head and said, "I was there." Oswald said this in an aside to Michael Paine, who had brought him to the meeting, the woman clearly recalled. Oswald's wife and children lived with Paine's estranged wife in Irving, a Dallas suburb. Larrie Schmidt, Dallas insurance salesman was also at the Stevenson meeting, leading a group of pickets against Stevenson. Yesterday Bernard Weissman, who placed an anti-Kennedy advertisement in the Dallas News on the morning of the assassination, told a newsman in Mt. Vernon, N.Y., that Schmidt telephoned him after the meeting at which Stevenson was spat upon, and asked Weissman to come to Dallas to help out in the aftermath. Schmidt acknowledges that, in advance of the Stevenson speech, he telephoned "a friend of mine in a local university" and asked if he could help find people to demonstrate against the United Nations. The friend arrived with 14 young pickets, and a "peaceful picketing" was organized, Schmidt said. The persons who spat on Stevenson and struck him with a picket sign had nothing to do with his well-dressed and orderly group, Schmidt said today. "We deplore and certainly do not condone the actions of those people," Schmidt says. At the A.C.L.U. meeting on Oct. 25, Oswald rose during the open discussion and remarked that he had attended the Walker speech two nights before and had observed anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic symptoms there. A man who attended the A.C.L.U. meeting and who sat beside Oswald, has been located and corroborates other recollections about Oswald's remarks there. This source confirms that Oswald said in the aside that he had attended the Stevenson rally. A Dallas businesswoman, who refused to be identified, said she believes she saw Oswald picketing at the scene of the Stevenson speech. "He was the only one who did a military type turn. This called my attention to him," she said. She believed Oswald's group picketed and left before the disturbance broke out against Stevenson. A second Dallas woman, a housewife, said: "I believe he was there, and he was carrying a picket sign in the lobby." Neither the businesswoman nor the housewife remembered what kinds of signs were carried by the group led by the man they now believe was Oswald. The "local university" was most likely the University of Dallas. Robert Morris was president. Morris was a noted Bircher, lawyer to Walker, and source to Loran Hall. Dave

Here's what Dick Billings had to say about Nagell: Nagell (correct spelling) is being handled by a special assistant DA named Bill Martin . . . Martin is a New Orleans attorney with Latin connections and background . . . He was born in Domrep [Dominican Republic] and brought up there, and Spanish is his first language . . . He went to see Richard Case Nagell under guise of his attorney of record . . . Nagell had written a letter to his sister in New York (?) and asked her to see Garrison . . . She came with message that Garrison on right track . . . And that Fair Play for Cuba was a cover . . . Nagell said he had a tape . . . Nagell is 35 to 37, a Korean War vet, officer who was wounded three times . . . and decorated . . . After Korea he became a Marxist and went to work for the Soviet government . . . He was a reporter for Soviets, reporting to their embassy in Mexico City . . . Message sent via sister to effect he had tape that could break the case . . . But Garrison would have to agree to certain conditions . . . The conditions: the tape is in Spanish, so man to contact him must speak Spanish . . . He would then go to man who has tape with letter from Nagell authorizing man to turn it over . . . But no effort to be made to obtain any other material Nagell keeps in a foot locker . . . This material could convict him for treason . . . Martin went to visit Nagell April 10 . . . At first Nagell declined to talk, then changed his mind again . . . They talked that day and the next . . . Nagell gave Martin name and address of the contact man, but he not to be contacted until Nagell can get letter out . . . This impossible unless he requests private meeting with Martin or is transferred back to Leavenworth . . . Nagell was assigned to Springfield for 45 days' observation, but that has long since passed . . . his Soviet assignment was to keep an eye on the Dallas assassination plot the Russians knew was brewing . . . There had been two previous ones, says Nagell: one in Miami when Kennedy went to the Orange Bowl, the second in California, but Nagell vague on details . . . Plan was to kill Kennedy and blame Castro and prompt an invasion . . . Nagell realized plot was for real . . . He was in Dallas and San Antonio in summer of '63 . . . He was in a tight spot . . . If Kennedy were assassinated and he had known about it, he would be implicated . . . He would have to skip country, but then he was fearful of his Soviet superiors (for an unclear reason) . . . At any rate, he wanted it stopped, but was powerless to even save his own neck without taking drastic measures . . . Which he did . . . First, he reported precise plan to Soviet embassy in Mexico City . . . This was a couple of days before Nov. 22 . . . Then he drove to San Antonio, where he staged a phony bank holdup by shooting a couple of pistol shots into the ceiling of a federal bank . . . He was arrested, got 10 years . . . Says he told FBI about assassination plan before it happened, but this is also unclear . . . Claims he was only questioned about Soviet espionage . . . Later he wrote Hoover and claimed he had warned of assassination . . . And he corresponded with Senator Russell . . . Tape is in both Spanish and English . . . Four voices . . . Two of them are Arcacha and man identified only as "Q" . . . Martin planning to go see Nagell again and to pursue tape . . . Garrison considers this a possible big break . . . Dave

Mr. Hancock, We've seen this letter before but do ytou have any new interpetations based upon what you know now? Who's the Bravo (Alpha 66) affiliate? Tony Cuesta's Commandos-L? Dear Arturo: I've received both of your letters, dated 9/26 and 10/4, respectively. Still haven't seen hide nor hair of the Equipment Times, though. Does it really advertise the likes of machines that nibble steel at the rate of three feet per minute? Now I know why E.T. wasn't delivered. Should have thought of the reason sooner, last week, when a recent issue of a popular magazine was withdrawn from circulation because it featured a bar-stretching device. Looks like the meticulous inspection-for-microdots-and-sophisticated-cable-arrangement theory will have to be shelved in favor of a more logical premise. Can you imagine the possibilities that E.T.'s next issue might provide to some innate-genius with a penchant for slapping together a facsimile of the Steel Eater, merely by studying the specifications set forth in E.T.? Wow! I can see it now. Built on the Q.T. in the prison library, cranked up and let loose after its christening, like some weird science-fiction monster, easily smashing past 20,000 volumes of Zane Grey, bursting out through the side of the library building, rumbling slowly across the west yard toward the nearest gun tower, bullets bouncing off its impenetrable armor, tear-gas bombs exploding all around it, sirens wailing, bedlam -- National Guard called out, still rumbling onward, onward, not to be stopped, finally reaching THE WALL, angry now -- completely out of control -- spitting gooey blobs of black molten tar at the N.G. Commander running along the top of the wall, now rearing a gigantic head , flashing a single mamouth [sic], keenly-polished incisor, hesitating, momentarily, then suddenly lunging forward, chomping at the wall, bricks and chunks of concrete flying every which way ... once ... twice ... and ... through! Daylight on the other side! A gaping hole, 20' x 20', appears out of nowhere ... two thousand cons stampeding through, on their way to Sacramento. After perusing your comments about the First Day's reporting of the Great Bank Robbery -- random shots, 27 centavos, gambling activities, etc. -- I am more convinced than ever that you should see the transcripts of the first and second trial record. As for myself, I've never read either transcript, though I would bet that I could give a fair account of both without much error. I wrote sis again, this time asking her to send everything. Here's a more up-to-date lead on Abe Greenbaum: "Informant F-HC reports subject handed suspected courier forty pieces of silver on 10/21/62 at Laredo, Mexico, for delivery to nuclear physicist residing in house on 92nd Street, New York City. S/A B. O. Schernnn [sic], Washington, D.C. Field Office, reports subject seen 11/28/62 walking east on Beacon Street, constantly checking for tail, suddenly dashing into parked limousine sporting U.S.S.R. Embassy license plates, which speeds away, runs red light, terminating surveillance as Agent Schernnn forced to brake bicycle to avoid breaking the law. Informant F-111-B reports subject and suspected courier observed at King's Tavern, Wilmington, Del. on 12/6/62, paying for drinks with strange-looking silver dollars taken from bulging briefcase carried by subject. Subject now suspected of being Mr. Big in Communist plot to disrupt U.S. economy by flooding country with hard cash. /s/ I.M. NEVERWRONG, SAIC, D.C. LAIR." Or, we could furnish Mr. Xerox an even more up-to-date lead, of somewhat different vintage: Abe Greenbaum, long suspected leftist is actually confirmed rightist, in deep cover, working plausible denial bit with one of nation's leading and best-financed foreign policy-making firms. He is driving along highway not far from Langley, Va., peering intently out of jagged hole in windshield of his Volkswagen, searching for sign bearing acronym "BPR". Date is November 21, 1963. BPR--Bureau of Public Roads--is innocuous designation used by Abe's firm. "Gee, the Chief must be upset about something," Abe mutters to self, "he used a rock this time instead of the ol' soap-the-windshield trick." Purposefully cruising past BPR sign, Abe makes U-turn in center of highway, barely missed by Fruehauf semi-trailer, then turns right onto road leading to firm's Main Office Building. "Must not be seen making left turn this close to headquarters," Abe mutters. Arriving at destination, Abe circles Main Office Building five times, finally enters parking lot abutting wooded area to right rear of building, drives to extreme right end of lot, parks Volkswagen on right side of firm's undercover utility truck, disguised with Bell Telephone Company markings. Sliding across right-hand seat, he exits from right door of auto, walking long distance to right rear entrance of Main Office Building which is draped with high Quonset-hut type roof. "Hello there," Abe mutters as he slips by uniformed guard he recognizes as Soviet defector, former KGB light colonel. Abe proceeds down mile-long, musty-smelling corridor, pauses under tiny, inconspicuous replica of firm's seal which is painted upside-down on right wall, notices that Bald Eagle's beak on seal is pointing to far left. "Must tell Chief Bald Eagle looking wrong way," mutters Abe. He then takes elevator to fourth floor, goes directly to Chief's office, raps out coded knock on unmarked door, enters. Chief is reclining in swivel-chair with feet on desk, arms folded, sleeping. On desk Abe sees torn-up typewritten letter addressed to CHIEF, DIVISION OF DIRTY TRICKS, signed by B. KNOW NOTHING. Chief is balding, slender man, oft referred to by underlings as "Dirty Dick", albeit behind back. "What's up, Chief?" asks Abe. Chief blinks eyes, opens them, snaps, "I see you got my message!" Chief smiles. "What's with this guy Osborne recruited for Fair Play Caper? XYZ man claims he's being used for wet affair by team we sold out at Cochina Bay." Abe shifts weight to left foot, uncomfortably. "Don't know, Chief," he mutters, "Ozzie seems like good man for penetration of target." Chief stands and yawns, grins slyly. "Well, just the same you'd better contact Tidbit and have him execute alternate ... plan." Abe stares at Chief with knowing-look. "Right, Chief, I'll get on it ... first thing Monday morning." Abe picks up cloak and dagger conveniently lying on desk, turns to leave, stops dead in tracks. "Incidentally, Chief, Bald Eagle on firm's seal is pointing left." Chief grins, sits down in swivel chair, leans back, puts feet on desk, clasps hands behind head, closes eyes. "Really?" He says. Soon Chief is snoring. Abe departs, returns to Volkswagen, worried about jagged hole in windshield. Mutters to self, "Gee, I hope it doesn't rain tomorrow." Of course, this lead is utter fiction too, a figment of the imagination ... still, it may make interesting reading for somebody. Are you aware that a Duesseldorf record company has come out with just the thing for any German who wants to relive the heady days of Nazi victory? It is two long-playing phonograph records called, "From the Fuehrer's Headquarters (Aus dem Fuehrerhauptquartier)." Billed as documentary records, they are comprised of victory announcements and special bulletins from the Nazi high command, military music and soldier's songs, Nazi songs and speeches. A booming voice discloses the Nazis are fighting for the German nation and the security of Europe "against the ... plot of the Jewish-Anglo Saxon warmongers ... and against the ... Jewish rulers of the Bolshevik central in Moscow." (Now where did he get that? What does all this gobbledygook mean, anyway? Could this be an important lead? ... I mean there is this thing about doing business with the Military-Industrial Complex, you know.) Seriously, Arturo, I had better give with a plausible lead on this Abe Greenbaum fella, in spite of this business about plausible denial, or "they" are liable to drop his name from my approved correspondents list. That would be catastrophic, considering that he is the only other person besides sis who is so approved. And the lead had best not sound too cryptic either, or "they" might ship #83286 [Nagell's prisoner number] back to the Funny Farm ... you know, for more "treatment." So let's try again: Young Regent of Yanquis Land is visiting "Little D" to plug for assistant who is fast losing popularity amongst ultra-conservative proletariat of Friendship Province. Date is well-remembered date in fall of '63. Young Regent is hated by proponents of Secret War (and by director of large pharmaceutical combine specializing in manufacture of cyanide capsules) because word is out he intends to decree curtailment of clandestine operations of various Yanquis Land spook outfits, citing as reasons that regime's continued reliance on covert methods of achieving political goals widens faith-in-government gap, is corrosive to principles of democracy, etc., especially when spooks get caught in the act. Young Regent feels one spook outfit in particular is exceeding bounds of propriety, has expanded narrow function delegated it by International Security Act of '47 ... is becoming TOO POWERFUL ... is unduly influencing both foreign and DOMESTIC policy by its shenanigans ... thus, must have nefarious activities at home and abroad throttled, or at least have them restricted to endeavors which cannot be accomplished by other, more acceptable means. BANG! BANG! BANG! Young Regent no longer Regent of Yanquis land. Clandestine operations of spook outfits not curtailed. Cyanide capsule market flourishing. Too Powerful One getting MORE POWERFUL ... What has all this got to do with Abe Greenbaum? ANSWER: Nothing. Is it a plausible lead? ANSWER: Not very. Wait! Before visit to Little D, Young Regent also thinking of effecting rapprochement with Isle of Cuber, establishing nicer rapport with Isle of Cuber's Big Mother Busher. Strange! ... Young Regent of Isle of Cuber also thinking of effecting rapprochement with Yanquis Land, establishing nicer rapport with Yanquis Land's Big Doctrine, Monroe. How nice! Feelers put out by both Young Regents through "private" channels in July '63, then quasi-official channels in August '63, through "official" channels in September '63. Meanwhile, anti-Castor Oilers known as Bravo Club gets wind of feelers ... doesn't like smell ... nohow! There is huddle. There is chant: "Remember Cochina Bay! -- Remember Cochina Bay! Soon there is talk (louder than '62 talk) of giving Young Regent of Yanquis Land Xmas present ... yo! ... gonna brow that out to keep situation status quo (at worst) ... to change status quo for worse (at best). Patsy is needed! She is pro-Castor Oiler well-known to Bravo Club. Two Bravo members speak to Patsy, convince her they are boyfriends, buy her Cuber Liber Cocktail (minus rum), get her drunk on glory, tell her they are special emissaries to Yanquis Land personally by Young Regent of Isle of Cuber to give Xmas present to Young Regent of Yanquis Land ... have "chosen" Patsy to help deliver Xmas present. Will be furnished Safe Conduct Pass to Isle of Cuber by Embassy in Mexico City. Will be given proper treatment on arrival. Oh, joy! Will live happily ever after. Can Patsy join Xmas Present Committee now? Uh-uh! Not yet. First must prove self deserving of great honor. Must set up Chapter of Foul Ploy for Isle of Cuber, must stand on street corner ... pass out pro-Castor Oil tracts, must appear on TV ... root for Castor Oil products, must rumble with anti-Castor Oil salesman. Above all, must not mention Xmas Present Caper to anybody, not even husband, Ivan. Meanwhile, Single-Man named "Snerd" gets wind of Xmas Present Caper and going-on at Bravo Club. Snerd is Isle of Cuber's Big Mother Busher's illegitimate son. Snerd gets in touch with Double-Man Abe Greenbaum, working in deep cover at BPR, Division of Dirty Tricks, as Rightist. Actually, Abe is Leftist-turned Middlist. Middlist Abe contacts Triple-Man Zero, sitting on ice because has burned butt. Triple-Man Zero instructed to join Delta Club, which is affiliate of Bravo Club, find out if things real. Zero does just that, craftily, in guise of crossbow expert. Discovers Patsy undergoing hypnotherapy by ex-ferry pilot named Hairy De Fairy. Reports to Abe things are for real, yes siree! Abe passes info on to Dirty Dick (and Snerd). Snerd passes info on to Big Mother Busher. Somebody flashes word back for Zero to let go with well-aimed arrow in Patsy's rump ... leave Yanquis Land, hubba hubba! Zero chickens out day he is to arrow Patsy, six days before Xmas present to be delivered. Pens Abe nasty note. Pens Snerd nastier note. Pens Dirty Dick even nastier note. Also pens note to Boss of Yanquis Land's Main Secret Police Bureau, tattles on Xmas Present Caper, tattles on Patsy, etc. Burns butt again. Searches in vain for cake of ice to sit on. Winds up in Friendship Province Halfway House. End of lead? Not hardly. Apparently something amiss. Xmas Present Caper does not come off per schedule. Delta Club disintegrates. Bravo Club Xmas Present Committee disintegrates. Abe drops out of sight. Dirty Dick is mum. Snerd crawls back inside Big Mother Busher's womb, dies. De Fairy puts on falseface, hides at 3330 Clubhouse, gets whipped. Director of large pharmaceutical combine gives order for increased production of cyanide capsules. Boss of Main Secret Police Bureau sits in office, drums fingers on desk, waits. Zero is still in Friendship Province Halfway House, getting older ... if not wiser. End of lead? ... Not hardly. Day of Infamy arrives! Patsy crouched at open window, armed with second-hand crossbow, quiver filled with curare-tipped arrows slung across shoulder. ZIP! ZIP! ZIP! BANG! ZIP! BANG! ZIP! BANG! End of lead? ... Not hardly. Patsy awakens from hypnotic trance. Says, "What am I doing here?" Wonders what cyanide capsule is doing clenched between teeth? Wonders what cloak and dagger is doing on window sill? Wonders why floor of room is lettered with pro-Castor Oil pamphlets? Wonders how chicken bones got in lunch pail? Memory returns. Patsy flees. Refuses ride by former Bravo boyfriend driving by in utility truck bearing Bell Telephone Company markings. Catches bus instead. End of lead? ... Not hardly. Patsy has gone her way. De Fairy has gone his way. One former Bravo boyfriend now living vicinity M. Cyanide capsule market still flourishing. Dirty Dick promoted within superstructure of BPR ... is still mum. Snerd reborn as "Terd". Abe Greenbaum has changed name, retired, resides in mansion protected by pack of snarling German Shepherds, disappears for one hour each night in vault to count huge pile of American silver dollars. Boss of Yanquis Land Main Secret Police Bureau has four-year old secret ... but is relaxed. Zero out of Friendship Province Halfway House ... is now in Old Triple-Man's Home for Aged. More Powerful One now MOST POWERFUL (evidently). End of lead? ... Not hardly. End of letter? ... yes. Most sincerely yours, Richard C. Nagell 83286

John and Nathaniel, According to Loran Hall's and Gerry Hemming's testimony before the HSCA, the "Bayo-Pawley" raid a disguised attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro. Dave

Wim, You said "It is THAT and the detail of Chauncey's testimony and the new unknown names and roles that he adds, like George and Bob Reynolds, Lloyd Cobb, Leroy Young, Paulino Sierra, Frank and Bud Belcher that convinces me of his credibility. " What did Holt have to say about Paulino Sierra? Dave

Larry, Hall mentioned in his 1968 interview with Harold Weisberg that he manged to get 250 BARS to Isla Majelis in Mexico. It's a small island just off the coast. Looks like a nice staging area for a raid on Cuba. He also hinted at raids of National Guard amories for weapons. Maybe he was just bragging as he was known to do. He did manage to get the trailor of weapons and Manual Aguliar's boat, the Pitusa, confiscated. Aguliar was pissed at Hall and later told Garrison's investigator that he liked Howard and Seymour much better. Dave

Larry, Sorry to be Hall-centric lately <G> but I was just looking over a few docs and there is an interesting letter from Wiley Yates to Jim Garrison (June 28, 1967). Yates goes on to say: "He (Loran Hall) suggested to me in subsequent conversations that I help him to raid a National Guard armory to obtain the sorely needed weapons and ammunition. This I declined to do, so that he dropped the subject and never referred to it again." And "Accoring to Hall some man had given the Cubans permission to use his farm for a training site in the Dallas arear, and he (Hall) wanted me to help instruct the men in the first aid practices with with I was familiar." And "Hall spoke fluent Spanish and was supposed to be a personal friend of the Cuban leader Manolo Rey. During the time at our home, Hal made a great show of writing Rey about activities then under way in Dallas..." "Hall left after mentioning that he was traveling regularly between Florida and California, through both New Orelans and Dallas areas, and would contact me again." Dave

Hi Don, Good to have you with us. I'm sure you've contacted Gerry Hemming. If not, I'd suggest doing so. They were long time friends. Dave

Tony, Can you tell me more about this testimony? "Colonel Pierre Finck, who performed the autopsy on President Kennedy, testified at closed-door Congressional hearings in 1984 that both shots that struck Kennedy came from the front." Where can it be viewed? Dave

Greg, Thanks for sharing that. That required alot of research! As far as Robert Schacht, he was a minister in the First Uniterian Church on Benefit St. in Providence. A friend of mine that was researching the socialist movement contacted his son, Robert M. Schacht, currently a lawyer. Schacht, Jr. spoke to him for a bit and commented that his father was indeed a socialist who was friends with Norman Thomas and Joe Coldwell(?) and when his father passed away, there was the who's who of the socialist party at his funeral. Dave

James, I'm not sure about Seymour's reason for joining up with Hall but that sounds likely. Nice picture of Hall. Is that a smile on his face or is he just happy..... "...you just don't sit down and say, well, let's have an assassiantion - it takes a sequence of things to happen." --Loran Hall to Howard Weisberg Dave

Lee, Maybe James has a picture of Gerry with his rifle. James, Hall also associated with Enrique Molina Rivera. Molina was supposedly the third person on the plane with Rorke and Sullivan when it disappeared. Hall knew of Oswald and admitted to going to "harrass" him with a Cuban friend, most likely Nico Crespi. There are some indications that Crespi was affiliated with JURE. Hall's early connections where with the far right. He was a member of the JBS and would give speeches to various rightist groups, especially if they had money. It was Jose Norman of the American Committee to Free Cuba that gave the check to Hall to retrieve the rifle. Hall ran Guy Gabaldon's campaign. Reportedly, Gabaldon had an apartment in Mexico City. A likely senario as to why Hall, Howard and "Juarito" left the trailor of rifles in Dallas (why not just continue on to Miami?) was to have them converted to full automatic. Who was doing this at this time and who came to the attention of Hosty(FBI), Ellsworth (ATF) and Coyle (MI) shorlty after Hall's return visit to Dallas and his subsequent arrest? John Mason. What was Hall doing? Getting weapons for an invasion of Cuba. What was Msson selling besides weapons? Information about an invasion of Cuba scheduled for the end of November. Dave

I consider this one of the most overlooked topics for further research. 1. Where was this rifle found? 2. How did the FBI get Roy Payne's finger prints off it so quickly? 3. Whatever happened to any followup reports? If anyone has any additional info on this, I'd love to see it. Here's two affidavits. One by Hathcock, the other by Payne. DOC #003267 AFFIDAVIT OF RICHARD HATHCOCK My name is Richard Hathcock. I once owned and operated Allied International Detective Agency. At the time that we're interest in, my offices were at 6715 Hollywood Boulevard in the Outpost Building. About two months before the John Kennedy assassination in Dallas, two men came to see me in my office. One was Jerry Patrick Hemming, who was using the name of Jerry Patrick. The other man was Lorenzo Hall, who like to called Skip Hall, whose real name was Pacillio, which I understand is a Cuban name. These men came to see me one afternoon, stating that they had heard of me because of my many years of undercover investigation of communism on the state college campuses here when I worked for the Hearst chain, and some other activities, anti-communist activities that I had been involved in. They were here, they told me, to raise money with which to buy medicines and equipment, military hardware for a planned invasion of Cuba. That they were going to train troops in Guatemala, which they actually did later. They told me that they were dead broke, and that they were going to be here for two or three weeks, they had some other contacts that they wanted to see, raise money, but meantime they needed a hundred dollars. They wanted to borrow the hundred dollars, and what they had for security was a set of golf clubs and a rifle which was a 30 caliber Johnson, modified to sem-automatic operation, which I believe held nine rounds, and also was equipped with a 30 power Bushnell variable scope. I gave them the hundred dollars, they left the golf clubs and the rifle. For several weeks after that, I saw both men frequently, then my understanding was that Jerry Patrick returned to Miami to set things in operation down there for the planned invasion of Cuba. What they had planned essentially was to blow up some oil storage tanks on the west coast. Lorenzo Hall stayed here, and was in the private eye office very often, almost every day. He told me that both he and Patrick had originally been in Castro's army when they believed that he was really trying to free Cuba from Batista, that they had fought, fought hard, helped to put Castro in power, found out that he was a communist, had no interest in the poeple, and they turned on Castro with the result that both were imprisoned, and sentenced to be shot. Both, through manipulations and through friends managed to escape and get to this country. They showed me lots of photos, gave me documents, and I do believe what they told me about those things. Eventually, as I say, Patrick went back to Miami, and I did not see him after that. Shortly before the assa ssination, if memory serves me correctly, it was no more that ten days before the assassination, Skip Hall and a big, fat Mexican whom I'd never seen before, and whose name I don't recall at this time, but I'm sure the FBI has it, came to see me, told me that they were going to Dallas to pick up some medicines and some other material, they wanted to redeem the rifle. They gave me $50, told me to keep the golf clubs, I got a note signed by Skip Hall that he had picked up the rifle, which I later gave to Jerry Crow, of the FBI. What happened to that rifle, I don't know. Jim Garrison showed me a photo at one time, an 8X10 enlargement, which he said was made by a Dallas Morning News photographer seconds after the killing in Dallas. The photo showed a Dallas detective holding the rifle which was picked up on Dealey Plaza. The rifle looked to me exactly like the one I'd had in my office. I have combed the Warren report stem to stern. I find no mention of that rifle which was picked up on Dealey Plaza. I also found no mention of antoerh rifle found on the second floor of the book depository building. Skip Hall later told me that he had turned that rifle over a doctor friend of his in Miami, Florida. Jerry Patrick told me later that that was a damn lie, that he talked to Hall, and as far as he could find out that was a lie about where the rifle was. But he told me that he had never recovered the rifle. The rifle was in my office all those weeks, and one of the gentlemen who worked with me in the detective business, Roy Payne, who is a gun expert and a gun nut, assembeled and disassembled and reassembled that rifle on numerous occasions. And I'm sure that Mr Payne can tell you a great deal more about the rifle than I can.. The day after John Kennedy was killed in Dallas, I received a phone call from Jerry Crow, an FBI agent here in Los Angeles, who asked if I had an agent working for me who was named Pay Payne, and I said yes. Jerry wanted to know if he could come by the office and see me and Mr Payne, and we arranged for that meeting. It's my opinion that the reason he wanted to see Mr Payne was because Payne's fingerprints undoubtly were all over that rifle from his having handled it many times. It's also my opinion that, unless that particular rifle had been found or in some way involved in this whole thing, that the FBI would have no interest init. And I think that we'd better let Mr Payne pick it up from here. Declare under penalty of perjury that the above three-page affidavit true and correct to the best of my belief and knowledge. Signed - Richard Hatcock State of California County of Los Angeles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DOC # 003264 AFFIDAVIT OF LEROY BARTON PAYNE My name is Leroy Barton Payne. I was a co-partner, an agent for Allied International Detectives with Dick Hathcock. Our offices at the time of this occurrence were at 6715 Hollywood Boulevard in the outpost building. I have heard and have listened to Mr Hathcock make his statement and I agree with him in every aspect of his statement, and I will, to the best of my recollection, account my experiences with Jerry Patrick and Lorenzo Pacillio, alias Skip Hall or Lorenzo Hall. I first met them when they came into the office on, in the outpost building, and in the description of these two gentlemen, Jerry Patrick was tall, blond, wearing jump boots and the trousers tucked into the top, very much a Joe Palooka type. Skip Hall professed to be an ex-Marine, I believe officer, I'm not sure, at least this is what he told us, small, wiry, dark hair, olive complexion he at one time introduced us to his wife. I do not recall what her name was. They lived in an apartment in, I believe, in Monterey Park, somewhere near the state college campus. They were out here on a speaking and fund raising campaign for going back to Cuba, and as I remember, they were out gathering various types of military accouterments, weapons, medicines, so on and so forth. How they obtained these weapons was not part of any information that was given to either Mr Hathcock or myself. Though they did tell me, or rather Lorenzo Hall did tell me that he had his closet in his apartment full of weapons, and that he was afraid that the FBI was going to come in there and raid the place and take him along, and they were going to have to smuggle them out. And they were getting ready to go to, to go back to Cuba. He drew us a map on an inlet on the shore of south of Havana or near Havana that was the oil storage reservoir and tank farm. It showed on this map the tank farm and several storage docks, and what they had planned on doing was taking a boat to Kingston, Jamaica, refueling, and then going in as frogmen to take satchel charges of plastic explosives and set them on the storage tank farm and the dock area and destroy this to cripple Cuba by getting rid of all of the fuel, oil, gasoline, etc., that was presently sotred for Castro. About I would say, ten days, fifteen days, maybe a month, somewhere along in there, prior to President Kennedy's assassination, here I am fuzzy on the exact period. But Lorenzo Hall and a fat, Mexican fellow came in and redeemed the rifle. Now this rifle I had been told that it would, that it had gone on several Cuban raids in the past, and knowing that it is very easy to modify a weapon such as this to make it full automatic, and that it did have nine rounds in the chamber, nine rounds in the weapon and one in the chamber, making it ten rounds that could be fired automactically, I took the weapon and test fired it, and then pulled it apart to make sure that it had not been tampered with. It had not and was a straight semi-automatic weapon. It was a Johnson semi-automatic 30.06, it had a 30 power variable Bushnell scope, very much like a telephone lens, on a camrea. I would say that this weapon properly sighted in would put a hole in a dime at 500 yards. The bullets would be fired as fast as one could pull the trigger. Ten seconds, ten rounds, or les. They picked this weapon up and signed a note that they had picked it up as I was present in the office when these two gentlemen were there to pick the weapon up. Approximately the next day or two, they left for Miami, and I made the statement to this Lorenzo Hall that, well, we'll be reading about you in the paper. Well, Dick and I went about our business as normal as far as the agency was concerned and didn't really think about them except to say, well, we hadn't heard anything. Five days prior to the assassination of President Kennedy, on a Monday, Mr Patrick, excuse me, Mr Hall, was in Hollywood, California, in front of out building, talking with Mr Hathcock, and I stopped and talked to them, and of course I said, well, why don't you come over and let's go get a cup of coffee, and tell us what happened, and he said, well, no he I've got to make the plane for Dallas. The situation with Mr Pacillio or Mr Hall is that he stated to me when I asked him, well, you know, what happened during the situation we didn't hear anything. He said that the CIA confiscated and arrested everybody at the boat in Miami, and I asked him at the time why didn't he get himself arrested also, and he said, well, he was on the dock and could not, be connected with tthe situation. They didn't have any evidence against him. I'm going to make an assumption now, or a realtively educated assumption. The CIA is not an arrestive body, nor are they an internal United States intelligence agency functional agency. This I did not recall, it just didn't make any sense to me until later. Of course Friday, I believe, November 22, was the assassination that Friday was the assassination at noon in Los Angeles, out time, and the next day I received a telephone call from my business partner Dick Hathcock, telling me that there was a gentleman coming into the office that wanted to talke to us, that gentleman was a special agent of the FBI, a Jerry Crow, who is stall presently with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and at the Los Angeles field Office. Mr Crow came in and I opened the door for him and he showed me his identificaiton, he had a big bundle of papers with him and a large, in a large manilla envelope, and he introduced himself, and I said, "Hi, my name is Roy Payne, come in." I introduced him to Mr Hathcock, my partner, and Mrs Hathcock was there also, and he put his bundle down on the chair in front of the desk and took some papers out and said, "I would like to ask some questions about Skip Hall and Roy Payne," and I said, well, "I'm Roy Payne, why don't you ask me whatever you want to ask." He seeemed rather surprised that I was there. At least that was the impression that I got. We discussed the situation about what had occurred and what has gone on with Jerry Patrick Hemming and SKip Hall, Lorenzo Pacillio, and so on, then I did not see him for quite some time after that. I did, however, find that the FBI, or someone, was, I can only make assumption, was following me and did tail me for some months after that. I had an ex-brother-in-law who was, and I am not correct with this, he is deceased now, and his was Harvey Berkey, who was the assistant agent in charge of the local field office for the FBI here. In asking or making an attempt to ask Harvey what the heck was going on, Harvey refused to talk to me, and I could not gain entrance to his house, he would not answer the door, nor would his wife nor his children. There was on one occasion, I did run into Harvey Berkey outside of my office with Mr Hathcock, and he did not want to talk to me at all and excused himself and said he had to go. I did, within the week after the assassination of the President, have occasion to go to Palm Springs, I believe it was on a Thursday, and I stayed at a small motel upon entering the town, and about three o'clock in the morning had occasion to see two gentlemen go through my vehicle pretty thoroughly, and they had keys to enter and to go through my car, they went through the glove compartment, I had had evidence prior to that that my vehicle had been entered and searched as well as out offices, which then had been moved to, Allied Detectives moved to 6605 Hollywood Boulevard, on the third floor. We had Suite 310, which covered several rooms, adn we did have a system to show whether our offices had been entered and the file had been searched several times. We feel, or felt that out telephone, both at home, the answering service for the office, and both our homes had been tapped. This went on for several months. The next night, Saturday, after the assassination, I had to drive to Santa Maria and was there overnight. There were three vehicles that followed my car up Pacific Coast Highway all the way up to Santa Maria and then again picked me up the next day when I went through several of the small towns in the rural area and up to Highway 99, which is now I-5, and then comeing back the Ridge Route. The same subject vehicles that followed me the next day after the assassination were the same vehicles that I saw in Palm Springs for the a week later, along with the same gentlemen, that were in them. Like I say, this went on for quite some time, two to three months after the assassination. One afternoon, about ten days or two weeks after the assassination, about 4:30 in the afternoon, I received a telephone call at the office from Lorenzo Hall, or Lorenzo Pacillio. I said, "Hey buddy, you better have a lot of witnesses because you were in Dallas at the time of the assassination,: and he said, "I've got witnesses to prove that I was right in the middle of the lobby of the Hilton Hotel, and a hundred people know I was there, and I was nowhere near where Kennedy was assassinated." When the District Attorney of New Orleans, Jim Garrison, came to California with an order or request for extradition of two gentlemen, one gentleman was from Burbank, the other gentleman was Skip Hall, or Lorenzo Pacillio, the same man, in a newspaper statement that Mr Hall or Mr Pacillo had made, he stated that he had never been in the state of Texas, yet he had told me that he had gone to Texas, that he was leaving that Monday prior to the assassination to go to Dallas, and that he has a hundred witnesses in a hotel to show that he had been in Dallas, Texas, but was nowhere near the assassination site. Let's see here. I have never heard from again this Lorenzo Pacillio, or Lorenzo Hall, he had never made any attempt to contact me or call me, he did tell me at the time of this one phone call, that several attempts had been made on his life, that his car had been boobed once or twice, and it had been blown up. He said someone else who had started the vehicle had been blown up with it. I have no direct knowledge that there was an automobile bombing. I have never pursued the situation. I did on one occasion go and drive out to visit with Jerry Patrick Hemming, who was living somewhere off the San Berardino Freeway, Monterey Park, Montebello, in that specfic area. He discussed with me at the time about turning over the rifle to them and he didn't like the idea that the rifle went down there, since he felt it was his rifle and the golf clubs that were also hocked at that time the original meeting were Lorenzo Pacillio;s, and that the rifle was his, and other than that particular conversation, I have never had any further contact Jerry Patrick, or as I say, no further contact at all with Lorenzo Hall. I understood that he had been living in central California for some period of time, and in a compuound type of area, and operated a bar or a cocktail lounge or a beer bar or tavern in the downtown area. Then I understood later from Dick Hathcock that he is now back down here in Southern California and is living somewhere out in the Monterey Park Montebello area and has been in and out of the hospital once or twice, but other that that I have no direct knowledge to bring situations up to date. I declare under penalty of perjury that the above eight-page affidavit is true and correct to the best of my belief and knowledge. signed LEROY BARTON PAYNE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Extracted from http://www.cuban-exile.com/doc_026-050/doc0046.html It was at Clint Wheat’s house that Hall, Howard, and “Juarito” a.k.a. Celio Castro Alba, picked up a trailer of weapons and a large supply of medical supplies to bring to Miami for anti-Castro activities. According to Howard the weapons consisted of a “. 30 caliber, there was a scope weapon, and there was M-1s, standard M-1 Girands an M-14, modified, strictly semi...” Some of these weapons were supplied by Ergiaga Arms Company owned by Juan Ergiaga, the former top arms ordinance man for Fidel Castro. The trailer carrying these weapons was left at Lester Logue’s house in Dallas on October 10, 1963. Logue, an oil geologist, was a friend of Hall’s. Hall admitted that it was in Logue’s office that he was offered fifty thousand dollars to assassinate JFK but he declined. He added that Lester Logue had nothing to do with the offer and left the room after the offer was made. Hall and William Seymour traveled from Miami the following week to retrieve the trailer of weapons and medical supplies. It was on this return trip that Hall and Seymour were arrested for drug possession — a bottle of Dexedrine. While in custody, Hall was questioned by an FBI agent whom he identified as “Hostel or something”, a Military Intelligence agent, and a “CIA guy.” The “CIA guy” was probably ATF Agent Frank Ellsworth who was working closely with FBI agent James Hosty and Military Intelligence agent Ed Coyle on a gun smuggling case. He claimed that the MI Agent attempted to recruit him. Hall remained in jail for two days before being released. Hall had called Dr. Robert Morris who in turn called Lester Logue. Logue secured an attorney for Hall.

Sir James, Was Carlos Roca mentioned by Fabian Escalante as one of three Cubans that was "captured" in Guatemala? Dave