Bob Ness
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Posts posted by Bob Ness
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1 hour ago, Cory Santos said:
Yes, it is evidence someone named George Bush was briefed. In 1988 when this memo , I believe found by Professor McBride, went public, Bush said it was not him. The other Bush who worked for the CIA later said it was not him either. So who was this referring to? Unless that is answered we can't assume without evidence that it was President Bush.
I believe Bush called the FBI as a confidential informant and claimed he overheard someone planning an attempt or some such thing. Not exactly a smoking gun but the name he dropped and the way he did it could be made to sound like an alibi. Interesting but not conclusive. Re the family writ large me thinks they stinketh the barn up pretty bad.
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11 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:
Great!
While you're at it, ask him if Granpa Gise ever sold any of his Cotulla ranch mineral rights to Lady Bird Johnson or her father Thomas Jefferson Taylor.
Maybe you can ask him if Grandpa Gise ever mentioned who was on those Italian submarines he escorted to Bermuda in '43.
I just don't think the family tree bit you keep chasing is conclusive of anything other than it's a small world. When you state something as false that I know is true it calls everything else into question. My last name is Ness. My grandfather was the CO at Nebraska Street in DC with the AFSA. He was in the ONI and served several years with Lou Tordella the longest active DD in NSA history who is in the Cryptology Hall of Fame. I grew up with Rockefellers and others who you would instantly know by name. None of this infers anything other than if you're around long enough you meet people. Hell I've met 12 Oscar winners. It seems your a man who has concluded something and are searching for the pieces to justify the conclusion. I appreciate the research but it doesn't convince me of anything.
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21 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:
Maybe you should read.
Maybe I'll just ask him hahaha!
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5 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:
Bezos did not build Amazon in his garage.
Uh, yeah it went something like that. I know some of his early investors personally. It's a very small world in the tech community. I can't comment on the rest of what you say but this statement calls it into question for me.
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13 hours ago, Kathy Beckett said:And to explain how pay phone calls could be made at no charge.
FWIW I remember a friend of mine somehow got ahold of a Pacific NW Bell code that you could dial in prior to dialing the usual number and make free calls from a pay phone and I think free long distance calls with another prefix code. This was many years ago but I believe there were other codes for different functions also. Linemen used them for repairs and other company employees had them too. I think they randomly changed them after everyone passed them around.
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5 hours ago, Rich Pope said:
One of the reasons I'm on this forum is to provide information my father learned as the chief engineer for the telephone company while listening into telephone conversations of LBJ at his ranch in Johnson City, Texas. I've been extremely hesitant to do so because I feel the general atmosphere of this forum to be unhealthy, riddled with personal attacks and outright bullying. It doesn't seem to me the admins of this site are interested in addressing this issue but I will keep my end of the bargain of providing things from my father's notes.
The government, asked my father for a watts line phone number so that Lee Oswald and Judyth Baker could speak to each other without long distance charges accruing. My father provided the number to the government official who then made sure that number made it to David Ferrie. Ferrie then passed the number to Oswald and Baker to use to speak to each other at no cost. It's my understanding Judyth used a pay phone at the race track to conduct her phone conversations with Lee Oswald.
Because of the nature of the underlying issue, these kind of claims require substantiation in some form. Even diary entries or contemporaneous notes or some such thing is better than nothing. Remember there have been inumerable frauds, charlatans and misinformed people on this forum and in the JFKA area for decades. Posting here and making claims that can't be substantiated over and over again will raise red flags. On the other hand providing proof for a previously unknown piece of information that passes muster will be appreciated by everyone and you'd probably see less offensive responses.
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22 hours ago, Pat Speer said:
I've had this document for 15 years or more. I received it on a CD-rom comprising the thousands of documents released in the early '90's related to the Guatemalan coup. It was created for the para-military trainers of the Guatemalan troops we were training to overthrow Arbenz. (It seems likely , then, that this was used by Rip Robertson and David Sanchez Morales.) In any event, after receiving this document I did quite a bit of reading on its history, and found some articles from the early '90's regarding its release. As a result, I see no reason to question its authenticity. The only "researchers" I have encountered who have questioned its authenticity, moreover, have been gun nuts upset by the manual's discussion of subsonic .22 ammunition, which they consider un-manly.
P.S. I just googled it and found that not only does the CIA not deny the authenticity of this manual, they preserve it on their website. Here's the link: https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000135832.pdf
Ah! I stand corrected. I must have been thinking of the Army Field Manual 30_31b or something. Not a huge shocker they would produce something like that. Killing for Dummies kind of thing.
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On 2/19/2016 at 4:31 PM, Richard Gilbride said:
Something is dreadfully wrong, and it seems like the Air Accident Report.
According to the FBI telex, Engler contacted the FBI in Los Angeles at 8:51 AM Pacific Standard Time. He provided the whereabouts of the downed plane, and the FBI forwarded that information to the LA Coast Guard.
At 9:10 AM PST Engler re-contacted the FBI and said he was tracking men, not the plane. The Bureau also forwarded this information to the Coast Guard.
The description Engler gave is near the Malaspina Glacier beside Yakutat Bay. This is roughly 57-58% of the distance from Anchorage to Juneau.
The Report states that the pilot expected a 3 1/2 hr flight, using an airspeed of 170 knots. It states that the Cessna departed at 8:59 Alaska Standard Time, which is 7:59 PST.
If that is the true departure time, the Cessna was only in the air about 50 minutes before Engler reported it down. That is only about 23-24% of its expected flight time.
I suspect that the Report fudged the Cessna times. I also suspect that Engler was tracking it while it was in flight. I also suspect that Engler was working for TRW Systems in Los Angeles, which by the early 70's had developed the Rhyolite spy satellite for the CIA, which could read data on the ground.
October 16, 1972 was a Monday.
Isn't 859 AST actually 959:PST? If so, I think the math works out just about right.
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2 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:
The authenticity of this document has been questioned. Of course the CIA claimed it is a KGB forgery and the KGB isn't above that. I also don't think the CIA is above producing something like this either. I rate it as questionable at best FWIW.
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50 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:
Bob. If I remember right JFK had the taping system installed to be able to confront opponents with their taped statements when they misquoted him. LBJ inherited it, to his detriment. As well as Nixon, much to his as well. So we have JFK to thank for the Truth in a few instances?
Ah. Yes I suppose that's true. I would imagine they would be conscience of it though, sort of like when I send an email or text ("How is this going to sound in court?") hahaha.
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15 hours ago, Jim Harwood said:
According to sources LBJ didn't even want to run for President in 1964. He wanted to hold the office together until the 1964 election was decided and then he would leave the spoils for the winner. He came under tremendous pressure to run in 1964 and of course he resigned in 1968.
LBJ also didn't believe in the single bullet theory, didn't think going to war in Vietnam was a good idea, and didn't believe the Gulf of Tonkin story or the intelligence reports. Later after leaving office he confided during an interview that he believed we were "running a damn Murder Inc. in the Caribbean " . It wasn't long after that interview that LBJ departed this world.
You're suggesting the decisions he made were all involuntary? Wasn't it LBJ (I don't remember) who installed the taping system in the office? If it were me, and I knew I was being recorded for posterity, I don't think I'd be saying "hey, we sure did a great job of (insert devious actions/plot here) didn't we?"
I'm not saying he's guilty of anything, I just don't view LBJ as a lilly-white rose, Saintly, virtuous and blown about by events of his day. He escalated the war, beat down many an opponent and essentially hoisted himself on his own pitard. Here he is lying to the American mothers and father's of boys who will go to be maimed and die (not to mention millions of SE Asians)for something you claim he knew was untrue:
He was certainly capable of a great many things.
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50 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:
Oop's. Sorry Bob. You posted while I was writing. Nice to concur on one aspect with someone.
Ha! I looked once and sure enough he was right haha. I don't know that just about anyone could have gotten the goods on JFK by asking around Hyannis. There are still people there that grumble. I think in those days jornalists kept their mouths shut about "open secrets" but a person like Hoover could pierce the silence with well placed functionaries. The Valerie Plame thing would be a more current example.
Hoover's vulnerability with the mafia is an example of why these high level security classifications shouldn't be given out to sketchy types... ahem...
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Wasn't it Johnson who said " One in four Presidents never finish their first term so a VP has a twenty five percent chance of becoming President anyway..." or something to that effect.
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14 hours ago, David Andrews said:
Really, can you imagine kissing the wife and kids in the morning and then going off to work to develop aerosols to randomly exterminate men, women and children and intellectually dressing that up as Betsy Ross?
People do that to this day, maybe hitting on Betsy Ross a little less. This redounded on the citizenry with the 9/11 anthrax letters, for which a probably innocent scientist was ostracized, prosecuted and suicided.
Go look up the retitled "animal research" lab on Plum Island, NY - I'm sure there's enough rot there to fell everybody from Montauk to Poughkeepsie.
I don't suppose Olson was a lilly-white rose in the whole deal.
I think Kinzer covers Olson's guilt and remorse fairly well.
I have the Alberelli book but have been delayed in reading it.
The optimist in me likes to believe this type of behavior was more likely with WW2 vets with PTSD and their later undressing minimized these type of activities. That said it may be just hidden better. Dunno.
I'll probably get the Alberelli book at some point. Busy on other stuff now.
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1 hour ago, David Andrews said:
Finally, in 1984 Gottlieb has the audacity to tell Olson's son Eric "your father and I were very much alike".
Like some old Nazi in a spy movie.
I don't suppose Olson was a lilly-white rose in the whole deal. I feel bad for the family and Eric was really a compelling character in the series. Seymour Hersh claims to have a source that knows the details of the mess but doesn't have permission to reveal the story. So sayeth Seymour, FWIW.
The Guardian article has some allegations I wasn't aware of but I was aware of the claim the operator overheard the call. I think that was mentioned in the series. I believe Alberelli was the best source on this although the new book looks interesting.
Really, can you imagine kissing the wife and kids in the morning and then going off to work to develop aerosols to randomly exterminate men, women and children and intellectually dressing that up as Betsy Ross? Frank Olson could, did and apparently the balloon popped and reality set in. Some of the old spooks I've known (not a lot but enough) were appalling people and Olson counted people of what I assume are of the same ilk as colleagues and friends. Yikes.
I'm talking of course of the same types that hovered around the centers of political power in 50s-80's and taking out a guy like Olson isn't much of a stretch - taking out a President who is anathema to your beliefs is not much more of a stretch.
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1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:
Ron,
Errol Morris produced a six episiode Netflix miniseries about Frank Olson's murder in 2017, entitled Wormwood. The series documents most of the material described in this UK article-- including President Gerald Ford's later apology to the Olson family.
This is an excellent series - a docudrama that includes interviews and archival footage as well as a dramatization of Olson's death and events leading up to it. HP Alberelli (RIP) seems to have done the best research and I believe (IIRC) he identified George White as a leading candidate for having done the deed. Many of our JFKA faves such as Helms, Dulles, Edwards, Ford and McCord circle around this cesspool. I believe the method of his "suicide" (along with Forrestal and others) was detailed in some CIA employee manual/how to book on how to kill somebody without leaving evidence and giving authorities a plausible cause of death.
That manual may have been bogus though, I'm not sure. Basically says to pop them in the head to knock them out and then pitch them out the window a minimum of ten stories high - something like that. The family exhumed the body and found evidence to that effect. Our tax dollars at work. Makes me proud.
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The thread talks a lot abt Groden being punked. She died about ten years after the event.
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20 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:
Jeffrey Epstein.
The most important and highest profile criminal suspect in America since Lee Harvey Oswald and Richard Nixon -
Higher than Bernie Madoff, O.J. Simpson, Timothy McVeigh, Bill Cosby, Kenneth Lay, Jeffrey Skilling, Boesky, Keating, Stanford , Rod Blagojevich, Martha Stewart, Pete Rose, Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen, El Chapo, Noriega, etc.etc.
Maybe higher than Marc Rich, Jimmy Hoffa, E. Howard Hunt and G. Liddy ...
And the only one of this elite group who "actually tried to kill himself" in jail pre-trial...
and one who is placed in a jail security situation where only one guard and maybe a clerical worker were checking on him just days after his previous suicide attempt and who neglected the expected highest priority security protocol to the point of not even checking on suicidal attempt Epstein for hours at a time ? !!!
Please...you don't have to be a conspiracy minded person to see this as beyond simple negligence.
Epstein would have had a more secure situation in sheriff Andy Taylor and Barney Fife's Mayberry jail or Barney Miller's NYC 12th precinct one.
Yes, most of those others were held in cushy jail accommodations, but still, if your prisoner has already tried to do himself in while in custody just two weeks earlier...and he possesses knowledge of widespread complicity of others in his criminal activities who are stationed in some of the highest levels of political office, business, celebrity, royalty, foreign governments, law, etc.
And you don't place this person in the most secure jail situation possible?
And as a result the worst possible public confidence ruining disaster scenario plays out?
Barr himself should resign over this Oswald-killed-in-police-custody level Jeffrey Epstein security failure.
Barr's the janitor. Can't get rid of the janitor, there's no one else to do the job.
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Never fear... tireless Bill Barr will get to the bottom of this!
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I've chipped in a few bucks. Thanks for your efforts.
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15 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:
Bob, I don’t deserve the angry ALL-CAPS, particularly as I did respond to exactly what you said, working from the logic of your sentence structure: Russians - hostile activity - FBI - investigation - convicted in court - guilty.
The guilty pleas and convictions have nothing to do with “hostile activity” or “Russians”, so there is no culmination to your logic. You claim the “Russian hostile activity” is “proven and non-negotiable”: and I pointed out it is neither “proven” or established fact. You responded with angry ALL-CAPS claiming I I have mis-represented what you have said. But I don’t think I have.
I'm sorry Jeff but I can't waste my time on this. I can't get the time back! You're an intelligent person but insist on responding to something I'm not saying. This is my quote from the relevant post:
"Whether you or anyone else like it or not, the Russians were engaging in hostile activities toward us and the FBI was alerted and followed up with an investigation." You're including "coordinated with Russians".
I didn't say in the relevant post those verdicts and pleas related directly to the Russians or their activities. I'm simply pointing out the fact that they were guilty.
It is established fact that the Russians have taken these measures in: 2014 Ukrainian elections, 2016 Dutch referendum on the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, 2016 Brexit referendum, 2016 US elections, 2017 Catalan independence referendum, 2017 German elections, 2017 French elections, 2018 Italian elections,Georgia (2008, ongoing), Ukraine (2014, ongoing: annexation of Crimea, invasion of eastern Ukraine), Montenegro (2016 coup plot) - these are only the quick ones I could find. The Canadians suspect the Russians of interference and several other countries do also but I'm not going to look any more for you. Please don't throw Bill "Fortran" Binney at me either. He's been out of the loop for a long time and if he's the only expert credible enough to counter these assertions over the entire intelligence community and their associated overseas partners and domestic contractors it's not good enough.
Here is another piece of information should you choose to look at it:
https://documents.trendmicro.com/assets/wp/wp-two-years-of-pawn-storm.pdf
I'm not going to argue this any more because it seems to me you don't want to be reasonable and it's almost like you're trolling. Your statement that the Russians put up a few Facebook posts is ridiculous - straight out of PRAVDA. These things are established well beyond anything you're able to counter with. When you say that these issues are not established you are quite simply wrong. End of story.
Again, apologies (want to be civil here) but I was angry at that point.
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17 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Bob:
I guess this JDA did not harmonize that well? Or will you say he would rather go to jail than reveal his role in Russia Gate? Corsi has one also.
I don't know if you know this, but the White House has 32 of these in play right now. Its common for lawyers to try and do this since it allows them to garner information about certain cases that may be forming. Its like an advanced form of discovery. I mean, if you are a White House lawyer, you try and form these as part of your job.
Now, are you going to say that there were 32 people involved in Russia Gate? And somehow, with that many targets, Mueller could not find anyone to indict except people like George P.? And xxxxx farms in Russia?
Jim, putting words in my mouth should be left for others. Cohen's agreement came about as the result of a New York State prosecution which removes the protection he would have received from a President floating pardons around. He had no choice and I think you know that.
It's not "advanced discovery" in the case of a person who has no legal jeopardy, such as an unindictable President of the United States, who can pardon people. To clarify: The JDAs used by The President of the United States with several convicted felons, including Manafort, who had agreed to cooperate with Mueller, clearly crosses the line of ethical restraint by Manafort and Trump's attorneys. Manafort's switch from cooperating witness to hostile smells to high heaven and I don't think I have to explain to you why. Other people who don't get it can wait for the likely pardon. Witnesses appear to have been allowed to post facto harmonize their stories through JDAs because by golly, guess who's on the same sheet of music? The head of the DOJ and FBI!!! Mueller's boss! Hows that for democracy!
Do you have any doubt Trump would have ordered that?
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12 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:
Kirk - if you feel, based on comments made in 2008, that Johnson is a racist and therefore not worth ever listening to again, then fair enough. I’m not sure his indiscretion rises to the level of Willie Horton or the Southern Strategy, but whatever. He says he was repeating gossip placed with him by senior Clinton Campaign advisor Sid Blumenthal, so it seems the ugliness is widely dispersed. Regardless, there is nothing factually incorrect in his recent published work, whereas there has been much incorrect speculation published in the legacy media for over two years now. It seems that your position, like others who have commented here, is based on your subjective experience of being personally offended by Trump’s elevation to POTUS. Which is fine as well, but I would say that acknowledging 63 million of your fellow citizens actually voted for the guy might temper your zeal to cancel their votes.
On 5/4/2019 at 12:34 AM, Bob Ness said:
Whether you or anyone else like it or not, the Russians were engaging in hostile activities toward us and the FBI was alerted and followed up with an investigation. It's been proven, over and over again, that the people who were investigated and charged were either convicted in court or plead guilty did so because they were guilty. JEFF THEY WERE GUILTY!
Bob, none of the persons convicted or who pled guilty were Russian nor were their convictions stemmed from any “hostile activity” COORDINATED WITH RUSSIANS. IN CAPS NOW I DIDN'T SAY THAT. NONE OF THE RUSSIANS HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO COURT HAVE THEY?
“The FBI responded to suspicious election activity by a foreign adversary that has done the same thing in other countries.”
The only acknowledged activity were the Facebook ads placed by the St Petersburg “xxxxx factory”. BS please re-read what I said.
Whether these ads represented a routine commercial click-bait operation or were designed to “sow chaos and division” in America remains debatable. The culprit organization claims the former, while Mueller and Congressional figures claim the latter. If it was the latter, then it was a woefully marginal enterprise, as the statistics prove, such that claims it represented some sort of “attack on democracy” (as Clinton herself continued to maintain just last week) appears wildly overstated. The overstatements are, in fact, so crazy that the premise has entered “precious bodily fluid” territory. The company involved has actually hired lawyers who are currently facing obstacles in the discovery process.
The other alleged activity - the DNC “hack” - was not in fact “investigated” by the FBI, a notable omission. It appears that all of the investigative work which informs the indictment was done by a private firm hired by the DNC. Further, key persons directly involved with the allegations were never interviewed, and such persons reject the prosecutor’s position. So there is nothing “proven and non-negotiable” about these indictments - other than the fact that such indictments do exist.
I don’t know why Joint defense agreements were set up in this case, or why these persons would have to “harmonize their stories”. These agreements have certainly led to much speculation by various commentators - commentators who have been articulating endless streams of baseless speculation for over two years now. All that can be said is after Mueller’s rather thorough investigation, none of the persons subject to JDAs have any nefarious ties to hostile Russian agents.
Jeff - not going to say it again. Read it or don't comment. You're commenting on something I didn't say.
The assassination of JFK: Who was the Mastermind?
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Re the Bushes, no doubt they stink to high heaven.
But institutions have their own traits similar to a living organism which has it's own life cycles, defense mechanisms, survival skills and appetites. The CIA for example isn't going to do anything that could threaten it's existence. Even if the FBI knew the culprit of the JFKA cover-up was Hoover they're not likely to do anything with that information except burn it as fast as possible. FOX News (or other news orgs) isn't going to hire somebody who is philosophically at odds with their audience's views. The point is nobody has to give orders for this sort of thing. Doing anything different is counter the individual's and therefore the institution's survival.
The MSM continued cover-up or, more like it, support of the WC, seems fairly conventional and predictable to me. Look how hard it is for researchers then and today to come up with reliable and relevant information. The information that does come out doesn't fit between commercial breaks! The MSM produces content for advertisers not informed people. The information people get is graded on a price per eyeball and a value for demographic profile. Nothing more.
That's not to say there aren't great efforts going on in journalism because there are. It just needs to dovetail within the survival mechanisms of the institution. Most of the MSM have been totally scared away from anything that can be described as a "conspiracy theory" as we know. That's why serious efforts at research shouldn't come to premature conclusions. Interesting speculation should remain so stated until facts can be added as a catalyst to firm them up.