The Phil Ochs Question

[Blair Dobson]

ok, so except from some photos that are inconclusive and some hearsay, what other proof is there that Ochs was in Dallas that day?

I've never heard this anywhere before and all my looking into it points to "Jim Glover" as the one and only source of this...

Of the 50 or so articles and interviews I've read on Ochs over the years, I've never heard this before.

Please cite any other references if you have any.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Blair Dobson

[Blair Dobson]

I've read this thread four times now.

none of it adds up as anything more than speculative fan fiction...

I'll check back for some real proof, but for now we can file this under "rambling name dropping nonsense"...

[Blair Dobson]

case closed...LOL...

[Kathleen Collins]

Two pictures exist with Phil Ochs standing in front of the Dal-Tex building garage during the

assassination. It is the real Phil Ochs because I looked at other photos of him.

Phil Ochs, Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Hunter Thompson and John Lennon. None of these

left wing radicals died from natural causes.

Kathy C

[Blair Dobson]

Two pictures exist with Phil Ochs standing in front of the Dal-Tex building garage during the

assassination. It is the real Phil Ochs because I looked at other photos of him.

Phil Ochs, Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Hunter Thompson and John Lennon. None of these

left wing radicals died from natural causes.

Kathy C

OH so your "opinion" that it "looks just like Phil Ochs" makes it the real deal.

WHEW! I was going to hold out for something more concrete like an actual statement from Ochs mentioning he was there that day from a timely interview or something a little more compelling than "my opinion says it's him".

I've looked at some photos of Ochs and I own all his recordings, including some very rare bootlegs and I say the photos aren't compelling enough to prove that it's him.

I say it's Jimmy Stewarts neighbour Ted Postman...because I have pictures of Jimmy Stewarts old neighbour Ted and it looks like him.. he looked kinda like Phil Ochs...ITS TED POSTMAN!!!!! MY OPINION IS FACT!!! WHARRRGGGBBLLLEEEE!!!

all joking and pointing fun aside....

what other data do you have that it's him besides a hunch based on your opinion is what I am asking...

Hoffman, Lennon and Rubin could all have like mayonaise on toast too but that has absolutley ZERO to do with Ochs in Dallas.

Hunter Thompson shot himself with his family in the other room. If you think there was some conspiracy to knock him off, you need serious therapy.

There is no mystery surrounding his death. This also has zero to do with Ochs in Dallas.

Before you all start whinging about "Ochs was interested in the case too!" keep in mind so was most of America at the time...so was everyone in America in front of the Dal Tex that day?

no.

I'd also like to see the proof for statements like "Ochs showed me the autopsy pictures too!"

Which ones?

How'd he get them?

guess what! there are no answers to any of that because this is a nonsense fan fiction thread.

prove me wrong, show your work.

I await.

[Blair Dobson]

here is a picture I found of Phil in Dallas.

I was trying to find the one where he fakes the moon landing in his UFO with Kissinger and a few Builderburgers but

the CIA wiped my hard drive remotely....

I heard from this guy I know, who met this other guy and he knows a guy that says Phil Ochs was secretly a skull and bones operator with ties to the Cuban mafia in Miami and that he slept with Jack Ruby in a motel in Kansas..

Of course, like most of the stuff in this thread, I can't back any of it up..but just trust me...
I have seen a lot of pictures of Phil, and I KNOW this is him..

stay tuned for some photoshop with arrows, some pixelated garbage that shows JFK was killed by a hedge with a duncecap on and some David Icke quotes...

I got this case nailed....no ..really I do..

LOL

[David Andrews]

Dobson, spend some time - as I did, before I joined EF - and read the archived EF threads going back to 2006, with their valuable material, and raising of serious and overlooked issues and personalities.

Then look at the other JFK forums and see the virulent disputes made over the truly weak contributions there

You'll appreciate better the value that EF has to the research community. Otherwise - go bad-rap those forums.

[Kathleen Collins]

Experienced Member,

I'm on the floor, laughing my ass off. But anyway if that isn't Phil Ochs then it's his

double. And Hunter Thompson was not with his family. He had his son in the house

and was talking to his wife on the phone, when she heard a weird sound. I think he was

shot at that time. There was something about Bohemian Grove that he was tied to.

Rumors, rumors, say he filmed the sequence or was going to write about it -- He

believed he watched them put a live person on fire, a child -- the burning of conscience,

so they're free to kill anybody without a thought till the next year.

I must admit, putting that picture of BigFoot had me in hysterics. I didn't expect it.

Kathy C

it.

[Kathleen Collins]

oover went down so would LBJ.

I doubt his mother knew Lee was working on a cancer poison to kill Castro with parts of the CIA and their domestic contacs like the Head of the Cancer Society. The War System is on the rocks but it ain’t over yet.

http://www.facebook.com/jim.glover.5815

I had a cousin through marriage who was a big deal with the American Cancer Society. That was in the 60's. He then went on to being the head of the Blue Army in Pennsylvania -- people who worship the Virgin Mary. That was in the '70's. Mean anything to someone? I don't want to say his name and he's dead. An Irish guy with a big family and was hard of hearing.

Kathy C

Edited May 30, 2013 by Kathleen Collins

[William Kelly]

Re: Comments by Blair Dobson on Phil Ochs article.

First off, I object to his posting of a fake picture of Bigfoot and request that a moderator remove it, as it takes up unnecessary and valuable band with space. So many other important photos and documents have been removed for taking up bandwith and now this idiot posts this xxxx.

Since Dobson has read so many articles on Phil Ochs and this is all new to him, he should know that Jim Glover is not just anyone, but was Phil’s college roommate and best man at his wedding, so as a source on Ochs, he is more reliable than someone who has read fifty articles about the man.

In addition, as Dobson only address Glover’s claim that it is Ochs in the DP photo, if he read my article, rather than merely dismiss the photo claim, he would know that I too reject the photo as evidence of anything. Instead, I take Glover’s claim that Ochs expressed foreknowledge of the assassination plot and determined that he did indeed have the required associations to learn of the plans to kill the president before it occurred.

As one of more than a dozen people who have reputedly expressed foreknowledge of the assassination, and since such foreknowledge, as Sun Tzu said, “Cannot be elicited from spirits,” but must come from some special knowledge, then if true, Ochs must have had a close connection to the plotters. Towards that end, I focused not on the photo or even the possibility of Ochs being at DP as a “national security observer,” but on his associations and the possibility of him learning of the plans to kill Kennedy before the assassination occurred.

If you read the article you too would learn that Ochs served in the AF ROTC in college, and did undercover work investigating campus radicals before becoming one himself, if he wasn’t, like Oswald, an agent provocateur. Ochs was also pals with Bob Dylan and the students who illegally visited Cuba, who Dylan dedicated his Tom Paine award to. Ochs told Glover that he was going to try to learn more about the plot through the FPCC in NYC, who Oswald corresponded with, and Ochs knew and performed with Shawn Phillips, nephew of David Atlee Phillips, who was the CIA officer responsible for monitoring the activities of the FPCC and is a suspect, in the minds of many, as a possible mastermind of the Dealey Plaza operation.

So Phil Ochs, as my article “Was Phil Ochs at DealeyPlaza” clearly shows, whether he is in the DP photo or not, had the intelligence connections to obtain foreknowledge of the plot to kill the President.

If you want to discuss my research and writings please read it first.

And refrain from posting idiotic photos that only you and kc

find funny.

Bill Kelly

JFKcountercoup

[William Kelly]

Shawn Phillips

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Phillips

Born February 3, 1943 (age 70)

Origin Fort Worth, Texas, United States

Genres Folk rock

Years active 1960s–present

Website www.shawnphillips.com

Shawn Phillips (born February 3, 1943, Fort Worth, Texas, USA) is a folk-rock musician, primarily influential in the 1960s and 1970s.

Phillips has recorded twenty albums [1] and worked with musicians including Donovan, Paul Buckmaster, J. Peter Robinson, Eric Clapton, Steve Winwood, Bernie Taupin, and many others.[2] The Texas-born singer-songwriter was described as "The best kept secret in the music business" by the late rock impresario Bill Graham.

In the 1960s Phillips worked as a session player on several Donovan albums including Fairytale, Sunshine Superman, andMellow Yellow, [3] performed at the Isle of Wight festival, sang on "Lovely Rita" by the Beatles, [4] and was cast to play the lead in the original production of Jesus Christ Superstar (he had to withdraw due to his heavy recording and touring schedule). In February 1969 Phillips wrote and performed, with The Djinn, the music for the controversial Jane Arden play Vagina Rex and the Gas Oven at the Arts Laboratory on Drury Lane.

Phillips worked the folk music scene in Los Angeles, New York's Greenwich Village, and London. In 1967, Phillips moved to Positano, Italy, where he remained throughout the 1970s, recording the albums Contribution, Second Contribution, Collaboration, and Faces'.

Four of his albums Faces, Bright White, Furthermore, and Do You Wonder made it into the Billboard Top 100. In addition, the singles, "Lost Horizon" and "We", made Billboard's top 100 in 1973 (63 and 92 respectively).

His album No Category, featuring his longtime collaborators Paul Buckmaster and Peter Robinson, was released in 2002.

In 2007, his first live album, Living Contribution, was released, along with a Live DVD of the same title.

Phillips today lives in Port Elizabeth, South Africa with his wife Juliette and their son Liam. He quit touring after 2011 and now he divides his time between writing, recording, and his work as an emergency medical technician (EMT), firefighter, 1st Officer, Navigator, and Extrication Specialist with the National Sea Rescue Institute of South Africa (NSRI).

Discography

[5]

Albums

I'm a Loner (1964) [re-issued in 1965 as Favourite Things]

Shawn (1965) [re-issued in 1966 as First Impressions]

Contribution (1970)

Second Contribution (1970) US #208

Collaboration (1971)

Faces (1972) US #57

Bright White (1973) US #72

Furthermore (1974), A&M Records US #50

Do You Wonder (1974) US #101

Rumplestiltskin's Resolve (1975) US #201

Spaced (1977)

Transcendence (1978)

Beyond Here Be Dragons (1983)

Best of Shawn Phillips (1990)

The Best of Shawn Phillips: The A&M Years (1992)

The Truth If It Kills (1994)

Another Contribution: Anthology (1995)

No Category (2002)

Living Contribution (2007)

At The BBC (2009)

Singles

A Christmas Song (1970, A&M AMS-819)

We

Lost Horizon

Anello (Where Are You)

Do You Wonder (1974. A&M)

References

"Shawn Phillips official website home page". Shawnphillips.com. Retrieved 2012-02-19.

Eder, Bruce (1943-02-03). "Shawn Phillips". AllMusic. Retrieved 2012-02-19.

"Shawn Phillips website - Session Discography". Shawnphillips.com. 2004-04-26. Retrieved 2012-02-19.

"Shawn Phillips". Drmusic.org. Retrieved 2012-02-19.

[1] "Shawn Phillips Generated and Copyright on: October 26, 20046:05 pm by Leslie J. Pfenninger"

Walking Through the Fields: The Shawn Phillips interview

External links

Official website

Official Youtube channel

Official ReverbNation channel

http://www.shawnphillips.com/music/discography.htm

[William Kelly]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4681&&page=2

http://coverthistory.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_coverthistory_archive.html

An email sent by Shawn Phillips to Gary Buell in January, 2003.

The "Confession", you refer to was not in so many words as such. I cannot remember the time frames involved, but this was what was told to me by my father, James Atlee Phillips, who is deceased. He said that David had called him with reference to his (Davids), invitation to a dinner, by a man who was purportedly writing a book on the CIA. At this dinner, was also present a man who was identified only as the "Driver". David told Jim that he knew the man was there to identify him as Raul Salcedo, whose name you should be familiar with, if your research is accurate in this matter. David then told Jim that he had written a letter to the various media, as a "Preemptive Strike" , against any and all allegations about his involvement in the JFK assassination. Jim knew that David was the head of the "Retired Intelligence Officers of the CIA", or some such organization, and that he was extremely critical of JFK, and his policies. Jim knew at that point, that David was in some way, seriously involved in this matter and he and David argued rather vehemently, resulting in a silent hiatus between them that lasted almost six years according to Jim. Finally, as David was dying of irreversible lung cancer, he called Jim and there was apparently no reconciliation between them, as Jim asked David pointedly, "Were you in Dallas on that day"? David said, "Yes", and Jim hung the phone up.

[David Andrews]

Bill, what does the Raul Salcedo name refer to?

[Blair Dobson]

Re: Comments by Blair Dobson on Phil Ochs article.

First off, I object to his posting of a fake picture of Bigfoot and request that a moderator remove it, as it takes up unnecessary and valuable band with space. So many other important photos and documents have been removed for taking up bandwith and now this idiot posts this xxxx.

Mature Bill. You keep stamping your indignant feet.

Since Dobson has read so many articles on Phil Ochs and this is all new to him, he should know that Jim Glover is not just anyone, but was Phil’s college roommate and best man at his wedding, so as a source on Ochs, he is more reliable than someone who has read fifty articles about the man.

No he isn't. His posts read like someone making up a story to get attention. "maybe this, maybe that, I dunno...but I DO KNOW this etc etc etc"

In addition, as Dobson only address Glover’s claim that it is Ochs in the DP photo, if he read my article, rather than merely dismiss the photo claim, he would know that I too reject the photo as evidence of anything. Instead, I take Glover’s claim that Ochs expressed foreknowledge of the assassination plot and determined that he did indeed have the required associations to learn of the plans to kill the president before it occurred.

I didn't read your article at the time of posting no and I have even less interest in reading it after your whingefest here....also, your "connect the dots and make the question fit the answer" garbage: "he did this and he did that so he MUST have benn this etc etc..." makes me even less inclined to read it.

As one of more than a dozen people who have reputedly expressed foreknowledge of the assassination, and since such foreknowledge, as Sun Tzu said, “Cannot be elicited from spirits,” but must come from some special knowledge, then if true, Ochs must have had a close connection to the plotters. Towards that end, I focused not on the photo or even the possibility of Ochs being at DP as a “national security observer,” but on his associations and the possibility of him learning of the plans to kill Kennedy before the assassination occurred.

Sun Tsu says, therefore blah blah blah...more inanity.

If you read the article you too would learn that Ochs served in the AF ROTC in college, and did undercover work investigating campus radicals before becoming one himself, if he wasn’t, like Oswald, an agent provocateur. Ochs was also pals with Bob Dylan and the students who illegally visited Cuba, who Dylan dedicated his Tom Paine award to. Ochs told Glover that he was going to try to learn more about the plot through the FPCC in NYC, who Oswald corresponded with, and Ochs knew and performed with Shawn Phillips, nephew of David Atlee Phillips, who was the CIA officer responsible for monitoring the activities of the FPCC and is a suspect, in the minds of many, as a possible mastermind of the Dealey Plaza operation.

Here again you posit opinion as fact and have no verifiable proof.

So Phil Ochs, as my article “Was Phil Ochs at DealeyPlaza” clearly shows, whether he is in the DP photo or not, had the intelligence connections to obtain foreknowledge of the plot to kill the President.

So what. He could have also known how to make a great apple pie too.

If you want to discuss my research and writings please read it first.

And refrain from posting idiotic photos that only you and kc

find funny.

Bill Kelly

JFKcountercoup

Experienced Member,

There was something about Bohemian Grove that he was tied to.

Rumors, rumors, say he filmed the sequence or was going to write about it

Kathy C

pure and utter hogwash.

[Blair Dobson]

Dobson, spend some time - as I did, before I joined EF - and read the archived EF threads going back to 2006, with their valuable material, and raising of serious and overlooked issues and personalities.

Then look at the other JFK forums and see the virulent disputes made over the truly weak contributions there

You'll appreciate better the value that EF has to the research community. Otherwise - go bad-rap those forums.

I like to stick to the really good threads..the ones where bushes are gunmen, the ones where an amorphous blob is well known CIA spook or the ones where people go on and on about the interconnection of tiny uprovable details and how they make a giant conspiracy.

Joking aside, I've read a lot of the material here... I've also seen a fair bit of trolling, baiting and whinge from people who act like children, yet DEMAND they be treated as "serious researchers" worthy of praise and adoration...weak research, weak theories, bad science and dogmatic and entitled opinions.

Then of course there are the weirdo theories that hold zero weight, yet take up "valuble" space.. (theres a project for Bill CleanUp Kelly)

In reality, all of these JFK sites are kinda rife with people who seem to need a little something "extra" in life...

too bad you can't get that from a dead president.

"oh, what does your ex husband do?"

"oh he is researching the Kennedy Assasination and he is online 72 hours a day.."

"i seeeeee.....so..what are you having for lunch?"

Edited June 5, 2013 by Blair Dobson